Ukrainian conflict

pls respond

bumpu

>>133474606
bump

>Did the Ukrainian army really bomb civilians so much? Why are they so blatant?

Yes, unless you believe the story where rebels (or Russia) shelling their own cities. I can only guess why:
- provoke Russia to interfere (US/NATO wants Russian army in Ukraine to justify increased spending and sanctions and expand military infrastructure)
- destroy infrastructure, make people fear for their lives, so that Russians there and from other areas (Odessa, Kharkov) would think twice

> Did Russia admit to fighting there?

In Crimea, Russia was allowed to hold a force up to 20-25k because of Black Sea Fleet. Russian soldiers were already there. When it escalated, Russia moved more soldiers (it had less than 20k, so it could transfer more). Putin admitted that these soldiers made sure so that Crimea would be safe during referendum, that they helped to disarm Ukrainian bases so that there wouldn't be provocations or clashes.

As for Eastern Ukraine, Russia denies that there are Russian army. Modern Russian army wasn't used, because there are not videos or photos, no use of aviation or Kalibrs from Sea, T-90, etc. But by August 2014, rebels were getting crushed, so without some sort of external help, it would have ended there. ... will cont

>>133476268
In August 2014 is where the picture started to change and rebels started to regain some of the lost territory. In the same month, a rebel commander said (roughly) to Russian state TV that among us are many Russian volunteers. So, I think there were many Russians who saw what happened in Odessa in May 2014 and wanted to help. Russian government provided them with training and some sort of hardware, but not modern one, such as artilerry that Ukrainians had themselves. But this is my speculation, because I have not seen any proof from the west that Russia was transferring vehicles or military hardware over border or that the hardware came from Russia...

So, there are Russian volunteers backed by Russian government, but modern Russian army was never involved, because there were no Iskander, Kalibrs, Aviation, S-400, ships, etc.

Slavs killing Slavs - all is good in the world. That is all you need to know.

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No T-90s lol

>>133476532
To be fair it appears that we have sent a couple advisers to help aim artillery and train/command troops.

>>133476532
Of course, we are not talking about random people grabbing guns. Those volunteers could be either past soldiers or even current ones, but I think Russia didn't force most of them to go there, but has helped them with logistics, training, intel. Without Russia, it would have all ended by the end of Summer 2014.

Again all this is just my observation.

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Just tourists, bro.

I swear out of all Baltshits 'Lithuanians' seem to ride Russian dick the most.

>>133476784
Are those ukrainians?

Shit, I'm a half-mongol and I look whiter than these four

>>133476532
>>133476268
This guy is mostly right.

However Russian army was indeed involved directly in fighting. We helped create the Illovaysk and other such encirclements. Other than that, though, our actual army isn't there, only hardware and advisors.

>>133474606
>Did the Ukrainian army really bomb civilians so much? Why are they so blatant?
Yes, they do. No idea why. Maybe trying to escalate the conflict, maybe just incompetence, maybe just less than clean tactics.
And we didn't admit to fighting in Donbass/Lugansk area. Only Crimea. There's Russian wargear, volunteers, advisors and on rare occasions standing soldiers in the area, though.

>>133474606
>Israel = Ukraine
>"Palestine" = Russian terrorists
basically, if you're a leftist faggot who constantly whines about the American imperialism (and shit like that) than you should support the latter group

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>>133474606
fake map, in reality it's like +20 to every color. plus Kiev has at least 50% of native russian speakers, though their accent are dull.

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>>133474606
1.

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>>133474606
>Did the Ukrainian army really bomb civilians so much? Why are they so blatant?


These are very heavily populated areas. Both sides use Soviet era equipment. The soviet doctrine didn't care about civilians you just pour massive fire on the enemy position and lay waste to an area. some people are unlikely to leave because they fear looters. You do the maths.

>Did Russia admit to fighting there?

Not officialy but really every country with an intelligence service kows Russian troops are "vacationing" there.

>>133477213
Source for the pic?

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>>133477270
2.
> no ukrainians
> maloRUSSIANS
> greatRUSSIANS

>>133474606
Ukraine and Russia have a long relationship going back many centuries. The languages are similar but not identical.

Crimea (and some other parts of eastern Ukraine) speak Russian not Ukrainian. Crimea was a part of the Russian Soviet Socialist Republic until Khrushchev transferred it to the Ukrainian SSR. The reason he did this is that he was Ukrainian, so he gave Ukraine a gift of this very important strip of land. However the culture there is 100% Russian, and of course they voted to return to Russia a few years ago overwhelmingly.

This is not a close call, Crimea is a part of Russia not Ukraine. Heck I have Ukrainian ancestry from Kiev, and I could not justify keeping it in Ukraine.

It's just sad innocent people die. Brothers killing brothers because of a few nazis funded by the jews

>>133477289
no one knows

>>133476700
We Slavs say the same about you Muslims and blacks, so OK you're entitled to your opinion.

>>133477375
Ukrainians aren't our brothers. I refuse to believe our blood can be this retarded.

>>133477446
We were equally retarded desu

Just look at the shitstorm that was the 90-ies

>>133474606
cia made a coup
eu supported coup because they want trade lebensraum, they started their original bullshit.
people in ukraine didnt support coup
russia didnt support coup

new ukrainian government steals bigger % of money than previous
they signed antagonistic trade deal that can lead to big war in europe, economy dropped on 25%.

elite from eastern regions wanted to sell goods using market prices, western regions wanted to regulate prices like commie, because there were very few ways to deal with emerging trade deficit without harm.

ukrainian army (after the coup) was defeated in battles in eastern ukraine, so sides started slow "trench warfare"

ukraine is divided on 3-4 parts now by economy and politics

>>133476843
The problem with idiots like you is that they see a random photo on the internet and don't take into account the possibility of it being fake (either Photoshop / After Effects or it showing a different place, like the US senator did with Georgian photo of Russian tank column) and then COMPLETELY ignoring the fact that there are no authnetic videos of these T-90 in Donbass, no use of S-400, no use of Kalibrs, Iskanders, Buratinos, Russian aviation, ships and other military hardware.

>>133474606
> Did the Ukrainian army really bomb civilians so much?
Yes.

> Why are they so blatant?
Because they are soviets LARPing as locals, so they`ll have "legit rights" for the land, where they murdered all Russians.

> Did Russia admit to fighting there?
Russian Federation is not Russian naitonal state, it`s military is not national force. So governing organizations do not give a fuck about other soviets killing Russians anywhere. And so there is no Russian Federation army in Ukraine.

>>133477389
Found it on my own.
>>133477524
90s were caused by Russians but it's not like we could stop that shit once it begun. Ukies can stop theirs, but they are enjoying it all just because Russians dislike Ukraine falling apart.

>>133477352

> Germans

The Russian empire had some cool ethnic groupings before your retarded Soviet grandfathers genocided the fuck out of them.

>>133477446
What is 1917
What is 1991
What is Bolotnaya
What is Manezhnaya

We have a civilisation-wide issue with intelligent debate. We need a fucking Tsar to get along and discuss problems rationally.

Ukraine had none at the time.

Just look at Belarus, they had a Leader for the entire duration since the 90s and they are better off than both Moscow and Kiew both in the 90s and now.

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>>133476532
Russians are responsible for MH17 tragedy too
>modern Russian army was never involved
Luhansk, 2015, Pantsir-S1

>>133474606
>Did the Ukrainian army really bomb civilians so much?
google it theres lots of video
>Did Russia admit to fighting there?
its not but many non-army russians are going over to volunteer and russia is supplying them.

its basically an analogue of the hamas takeover of gaza. hohols were assblasted at russians for years , took over the country so now they were free to unleash their assrage .
a bunch of hohol nazi antirussian racist militias went to the russan parts and started attacking russians so the russian parts organized and rebelled .
ukraine had no army to speak of so they gave the equivalent of kids with 1 week tironut access to all of the country's arsenal and sent them to fight the russians . this is why they are so incompetent, keep bombing civilians and why they shot down that passenger plane .

putin is waiting the ukranians out as they fuck up their country and will eventually either annex the russian parts or officially help them to become a fully fledged new nation .

>>133477574
The logic here is, if Russia decided to use T-90, why then did they not use at least the same shit they use on CIA puppets and ISIS in Syria, on top of S-400 for Ukrainian planes? And I'm pretty sure there would have been a lot more materials like videos of these T-90 riding in Donbass. Many in fact.

>>133477991
you will lose 100 000 000 european men in next war with russia.

EU needs to fuck of and dont harm emerging markets like ukraine with their bullshit, before it is not late.

>>133478021
>and started attacking russians so the russian parts organized and rebelled
Imagine unironically believing in this

>>133478219
its all documented senpai, educate yourself

>>133474606
Both sides are guilty of civilian killings
There is evidence of Russia intervening in both Crimea and the Donbass.

>>133478323
Don't waste your effort on meme flags, they are collectively retarded.

>>133477991
It's common sense that Russia provides the seps with weaponry, however direct military help is unlikely.

US would've had a hissy fit if that was the case, and I find it highly unlikely that our underfunded military can stay hidden from the US.

>>133477920
People tried to stop the 90s. Result, for example when they tried to take over Ostankino?
Well, you seen the videos. Half a minute of firing and the square's littered with corpses and no protesterts are there.

But your point is painfully correct.

>>133477991
What if I told you that:
- MH17 was shot down by Ukrainians (but certainly Ukrainians wouldn't have the balls to do it without approval from some powerful people in the west)
- the weapon was most likely Python-5 launched from Su-25KM
- the aim was to create a consensus within EU regarding severe sanctions on Russian banks, which were imposed about a week after MH17

>>133478323
>its all documented
It's not. Russia sent insurgents in Eastern Ukraine and ukrainian government started anti-terror operation

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>>133478524
>What if I told you that
It means that you are retarded.
Russia is responsible for this mistake

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>>133478698
No, please, tell me more about it, brainwashed idiot :)

>>133478505
>People tried to stop the 90s
90s should have never happened. Yeltsin, Gorbachev and Yanayev should have sat down and worked out a deal.

Instead we have what we have.

Why? Because Communist party was afraid of strong leadership and independent thought after Stalin did what he did.

>>133478698
>Russia is responsible for this mistake
People who thought that flying a civilian plane over a warzone in a war that started with an aerial bombing run by Ukrainian air forces are responsible for this mistake. We did plenty questionable things in Donbass, but that one - no, that's on the stupid fucks in kiev who refuse to this day to admit to themselves and their constituents that they are in a state of civil war and cover shit up with "russian agression" and "anti-terrorist operations", even courts in Hague looked at the case Ukraine presented that russia funds terrorists and laughed it off.

>>133478524
>Lithuanian intellectuals

why do Baltic fags suck so much Russian cock

Bassarebia is ours. hands off Ivan you can have Transnistria

>>133478698
nobody cares anymore, that plane is already "statistics"

people should not fly over warzones (if they have brains of course)

>>133478934
>We did plenty questionable things in Donbass
You started this bullshit in the first place

>>133478997
I care a lot, because from what I researched, the truth is fucking shocking. It can influence many things, from EU citizens' support of Ukraine, to EU citizens getting red pilled about all their MSM and their certain governments.

>>133479139
Yeah, right, Victoria "Fuck the EU!" Nuland and John "American Supremacy" McCain were not fucking involved. Not at fucking all. And Georgy "Open Society" Soros didn't dump millions into feeding the rabid dogs that are sitting in Kiev right fucking now.

>>133474606
>Did the Ukrainian army really bomb civilians so much? Why are they so blatant?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9XAcZKRu40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVumvHUTQyw
This is how russian terrorists fight with ukrainian army. Guys shot from automatic grenade-launcher from house without evacuation of civils. When they take response shoot and civilians injured or killed - RT make a video about "blatant".
And sometimes terrorist do smth like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e62oXu6SyvA

>Did Russia admit to fighting there?
Yes. And every time when ukrainian army take captive - russians just say "We dont know who is it.He resigned from the army few years ago."

PS:Your map is untrustworthy.

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>>133479184
>the truth is fucking shocking
Even Bellingcat reports are more credible and authentic, than your "truth"

>>133479406
Of course, Bellingcat is more credible in the mind of brainwashed Belorussian Russophobes such as yourself. Especially when he said Russian photos were edited with photoshop just because the images had Photoshop metadata :)

It got published in Spiegel, but even Germany spotted the bullshit and forced Spiegel to retract and the chief editor to apoligize:
https://www.rt.com/news/265138-bellingcat-mh17-images-debunked/

But I guess it's not fair to compare a brainwashed Belorussian Russophobes with Germans.

>>133474606
>Did the Ukrainian army really bomb civilians so much? Why are they so blatant?

Russian propaganda

Russia has been fighting there from the very beginning, it doesn't matter whether they acknowledge it.

>>133479396
>Ukraine
A lot of the US supports Russia now because Ukraine interfered with US elections by siding with the Clintons.

>>133479406
>Bellingcat
>literally internet warriors

>>133480341
>no argument

>>133480269
>Ukraine interfered with US elections by siding with the Clintons
Ukraine is not a person. There are 47 mill of peoples that dont give a fuck about US elections. Trump is great leader, and i believe that my country will have somebody like him.

>>133474606
>Did the Ukrainian army really bomb civilians so much?
Yes. They are nizis and think east are not humans.
Nazis just like juice.

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>>133474606
language =/= nationality you fucking rat

go shill somwhere else

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>>133480571
true nazi

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>>133474606
Here you go OP, no further argument needed. Russians agreed to pull back their weapons in the Minsk II agreement, the MLRS Tornado S is exclusively Russian, a new system built in 2014 and here they agree to pull back this system from the frontlines. Checkmate Putinphiles.

>>133474606
Over half a million Ukrainians looking forward to Russian citizenship

Thursday, July 13, 2017

About 600,000 Ukrainians are waiting for the decision on granting them Russian citizenship, First Deputy Interior Minister of the Russian Federation, Alexander Gorovoi, said on Wednesday.

Russian legislation suggests a simplified procedure for the entry into the citizenship of the Russian Federation of foreign citizens who are native speakers of the Russian language.

But, in order to exercise this right, they must obtain the consent of a foreign state to withdraw from their citizenship and submit an appropriate document to the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation.

"Today, according to our estimates, our agenda comprises about 600 thousand Ukrainians who have come to the territory of the Russian Federation and are expecting this issue to be solved.

They have already integrated themselves, brought children and are managing everyday life, and we need to take this decision promptly," Gorovoi said at the plenary meeting of the State Duma when discussing amendments simplifying the process of obtaining Russian citizenship by the Ukrainians.

"The Government of Ukraine deliberately does not respond and does not accept requests (on withdrawal from citizenship) and documents that citizens of Ukraine send to the competent authorities," he stressed.

On Wednesday, the State Duma adopted amendments that simplify the process of obtaining citizenship and residence permits in the Russian Federation for Ukrainians.

From now on it will be sufficient for them to sign an application for the renunciation of Ukrainian citizenship, a corresponding certificate from the authorized bodies of Ukraine will not be required.

DONi News Agency

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Ukraine claims responsibility for murdering 'Motorola'

Saturday, July 1, 2017 - 13:26
An act of terrorism concerning lift explosion in a residential house in Donetsk City that resulted in death of the DPR 'Sparta' Battalion Commander Arsen 'Motorola' with his security guard was organized by Ukraine, the Verkhovna Rada MP, Nazi Igor Mosychuk has stated this on the air of the '112' TV Channel.

According to him, he personally knows a person who fulfilled an order to liquidate 'Motorola'.

“I'm claiming that I know for sure, can't call surnames, that 'Motorola' was liquidated by Ukrainians and the Kremlin has no relevance to this..... I have stated this several times already that he ('Motorola') was liquidated by Ukrainians. It's obvious I can't call surnames,” pointed out Mosychuk.
It should be noted that a legendary commander Arsen Pavlov perished on October 16 last year in the explosion in the lift of the house where he lived in Donetsk City.

DONi News Agency

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Wednesday, October 19, 2016 - 14:57
More than 50, 000 people gathered in central Donetsk to pay last respect to the DPR Hero, Arsen Pavlov best known under his call sign Motorola, who was killed on October 16.

The farewell ceremony started at around 10 a.m. local time in the premises of Donetsk State Academic Theatre of Opera and Ballet, the coffin placed in the hall. DPR The DPR Head Alexander Zakharchenko and acting Foreign Minister Natalya Nikonorova paid their last tribute before the lceremony.

Police closed traffic on the city central Artyom street to allow the queue of people to say farewell to the hero.

“The tragedy united people. If Kiev wanted to break us down, they failed. People come together, the flow of people who have come today proves it,” said the Vice-Commander of the DPR Operations Command Eduard Basurin speaking at the ceremony.
The funeral procession in memory of the killed Hero of the DPR, the colonel of the Republican Armed forces Arsen Pavlov has finished in Donetsk. The column consisting of thousands of people has stretched out for several kilometers.

The correspondents estimate around 50 thousand people gathered today to pay last tribute to the hero filling the central square and adjoining streets.

The coffin was moved from Donbass Opera premises as public chanted “May the Hero memory last forever”, and carried along the central Artem street with orchestra playing.

"Today we say goodbye to our friend, the fellow soldier, one of the most charismatic commanders, to Arsen Pavlov. Tens of thousands of the DPR residents from all cities and villages of our country have come to pay respect to the DPR Hero. The death of the commander under a call sign “Motorola” has become our collective sorrow," the Vice-Commander of the DPR Operative Command Eduard Basurin said.
The column was headed by the fighters of the DPR Armed forces with Pavlov's portrait, his awards and an orthodox cross in their hands
DONi News Agency

>>133481560
Kys faggot, stop spamming this worthless shit.

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>>133481560
>lift explosion
That was Donetsk's guerilla.

>>133481560
>>133481709
>motorola and Givi are both dead

;__;

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>>133477270
I can see it.

>>133482508
what can you see, boleslav

>>133477270
lol, russian maps is funny

>>133483181
Partitions.

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>>133474606
>Redpill me on the Ukrainian conflict

TL;DR: powerful imperialistic KGB police state is fucking its weakened neighbor(s), episode number 5.

Next up the NATO member Baltic states? Poland? Finland? Sweden? Or perhaps Norway? Stay tuned for the next season.

>>133476790
>>133477009
There were some stories that Russian regulars crossed the border during the Battle of Debaltseve, guaranteed separatist victory, then returned back across the border. I find these pretty believable, since it's really hard to believe that a bunch of "miners and factory workers" with just Russian volunteers and advisors would have been capable of warfare on the sophisticated level we witnessed.

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>>133474606
Here's a clue. The coup's PM & Rice in 2007

>>133474606
>Redpill me on the Ukrainian conflict
Books can and will be written about who is to blame for the conflict, and any discussion of it here will open up a can of radically different narratives. This much I'm sure of: what's happening now is that Russia is trying to hold onto as much influence over Ukraine as possible, but without doing anything that will jeopardize its own energy trade with the West, without which the Russian economy would collapse. Which is why there's been such a delicate dance of Russian involvement these last few years. Russia could have, of course, simply rolled in with regular forces and taken East Ukraine... but that would probably have trigger massive economic consequences that would crush Russia like a tin can, and would scare the shit out of the Eastern European NATO countries, leading to an arms race Russia can't afford.
Basically, Russia has to keep its involvement as low-key and secret as possible in order to, at least, give Western Europe plausible deniability and keep the energy trade going. If Russia flexed its full might, Western European leaders would be under tremendous pressure to place Russia under total sanctions.

>>133474606
Ukraine is a non country. Separatists are trying to make their own country and associate with the EU. That's the whole conflict.

>>133474606
>Did Russia admit to fighting there?
they admited it in crimea

>>133476948
>I'm a half-mongol
your dad or just meme?

>>133484422
Well you are missing a couple important points. First and foremost locals and volunteers in the beginning weren't just some random Ivan's deciding to take up arms as a militia. They were a combination of ex and currently serving soilders of both Russia and Ukraine, private oligarchic armies and mobs, and other such folk who have already had a lot of expirience in places like Syria, Chechnya, Serbia, etc. Secondly - war is, in essence, a very complex competitive team sport, so yes a couple advisors can in fact make a difference. Especially if they aren't just KGB types but army officers and artillery specialists. Thirdly was majority of males in russia go trough basic military training in school, and then serve a year as conscripts.

While I do not preclude interference from russian regular divisions, I doubt it would have been warranted, nor do I believe it could have been concealed.

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>>133476948
No they are russians.

the more ukranians die - the better.

>>133486468
>Let's slaughter our own citizens over the color of ribbons they were,

Stay classy.

>>133478946
>why do balts shit on russia so much
>why do baltis suck russian cock so much
Make up your minds retards

>>133474857
>pls respond
please clap #Jeb!2020

>>133486892
>Let's believe that this is russian t-90 driven by ukrainian miners.
How to know that russians lying by watching their face. Look if they open their mouth.

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>>133486578

>>133488133
>>133488274
Oh the ironing.