Are Anarcho-capitalists the most retarded?

>>133469821
You're not wrong, but Transhumanists are even more Jewish, and more dangerous.

>>133469821
Aaaaand, you forget the most important part where anybody would be able start an ISP and undercut all the shitty companies, then expand their superior service accordingly.

>>133471096
If Transhumanism is limited and always controlled,anyone will be capable to get a few things from it.
and
>implying any type of society can be a utopia
No it cant,every society has a possibility to contain corruption and elitists.

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>>133469821

>>133471318
>then you get kneecapped
or the company just buys out everything that is advertised on your platform so you can't even advertise

>>133473327
You also ignore that if the service rendered is inadequate for the consumer, that the company will lose revenue. As such it is in their interest to meet the needs of their clientele. If their business model brings in negative revenue, they will lose their monetary influence to do those things.

>>133471540
the fuck is this true about rothbard?

>>133469821
Yes anon, you're correct. They are infact the biggest retards on this board and an overall cancer to this website.

>its another statist showing his peanut brain episode

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>>133469821
>ancaps
>more retarded than commies

>>133473679
If they're on of the only 3 services out there, people will still use them. Take Steam for example. They fuck wiht the trading system, the gift system, the grrenlight stuff. They get away with it, because they are better funded and are bigger than competitors. They can make a service that only they provide worse and worse for profit, and nothing can be done, because I'm pretty sure other platforms will be crushed if they try to provide the same services.

>>133474518
>You also ignore that if the service rendered is inadequate for the consumer, that the company will lose revenue.
>inadequate for the consumer
please explain your apparent illiteracy

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>>133469821
>Hell, not even bloody anarcho-transhumanists are as retarded as these fellows.
What the heck is a "bloody anarcho-transhumanist"?

ANCAP is literally the most equal and free society.

>>133474671
the ultimate redpill

>>133469821
I'm still confused by the concept of an anarcho-capitalism. What's the difference between it and the capitalistic system that we have in America right now? And how the fuck can you have anarchy and capitalism at the same time?

>>133469821

Fuck off. We have never experienced true liberty because of faggots like you. Ancap works if everyone has similar values thus requiring smaller societies. You want to be ruled by some government who takes your shekels and lines their pockets.

People fucked up and now we don't have a chance.

>>133474799
>America
>Capitalist

Problems with ancaps is they take some high-level abstract concept like "property rights" and build an ideology out of it. It's fucking stupid, there is no property in nature; it is a literal social construct. "Private property" should arise as a result of ideology, not be the foundation of it. At least commies are motivated by an underlying hedonism or something.

>>133469821
They make some good points, but all anarchist movements are utopian and impractical.

>>133474671
Anarcho-transhumanists are people who think everyone should be cyborgs

>>133474885
Private property is a very natural, baseline concept that even small children grasp without aid.

>>133469821
they think social contract can exist when theres no state to enforce it

>>133474810
And you want to be ruled by some corporation that takes your shekels and extorts you to only use their services, because that's how any oppurtunistic large corporation works.

>wanting interaction to be voluntary and people to choose how they live their lives is retarded
Even though I could call myself an Ancap, I am okay with the fact that many people do not wish for everyone to self-govern. As long as you follow the logic you choose to use against voluntaryism. Once you go against it, theres no reason not to go full statist 1984 style authoritarianism. If ancaps are retarded, then the opposite must be the non-retarded ideology.

>>133474982
Aye that too

>>133474810
>We have never experienced true liberty
I'm curious about what you guys think of gommies who say we've never had true communism because blah blah blah

there's a reason why we haven't had true large scale system for either one because it's absolutely impossible. At least commies admit that you have to scramble and rearrange the brains of everyone in order for it to work but ancaps seem to think things will just naturally work out.

>>133474958
and in an ancap society, you'll make small children grasp your cock and get AIDS.

>>133475127
i too like the ancap memes

>>133475042
">wanting interaction to be voluntary and people to choose how they live their lives is retarded"
That's called mutualism, literally the only anarchist ideology that has any merit. Even then, it's very utopian and practically impossible to achieve

>>133474982
>social contract
If 2 parties voluntarily agree to a set of conditions, a failure to follow through on them would be very negative for their reputation. It is in their interests to uphold the contract regardless of the existence or absence of a state.

>>133475076
Well, legitimate communism hasn't been tried, every time a state claimed themselves communist they were actually acting as socialist dictatorships.

>>133475037
>And you want to be ruled by some corporation that takes your shekels and extorts you to only use their services
So a government? Remember, such an organization only has power behind a centralized military force. Why would anyone build the weapons or machinery for said corporation if they knew they would be used to coerce them?

>>133475127

That violates the children's rights and NAP.

You can't harm children, even if they're yours.

>>133475209
then they form a lynch mob and train themselves to use guns in secret, violate everyone's NAP and kill off the the untrained "armed populace", forming their own country with laws and police and they slowly fuck over the isolated anarcho-capitalist settlements

>>133475037

Small societies, similar values. I guess on a large scale the only thing that works best is Nat scoc, but with that you must submit to governments will.

>>133475076

Yes, large scale is impossible. For any system it's impossible. Our republic will fall, faster than usual because of Marxist filth, but it was always doomed.

>>133474958
Hard to maintain private property when there's no neutral agency to enforce the property laws. It'd be the strong devouring the weak.

>>133475209
if theres no-one to enforce any means to prevent a failure to follow it then any 'contract' held to try and stop it is useless, and before you start saying about how it damages their reputation hundreds of conglomerates have horrid reputations in our current society because of shit like that and they still in business

>>133475354

This.

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>>133469821

They were BTFO as lolbertarians so now they are trying to rebrand themselves as minarchists and ancaps. Its all the same shades of retardedness. Just like how the american liberals were BTFO and rebranded themselves as progressives.

>Thinking capitalism requires a state

wew lad

>>133475236
With governments, you can always leave to another, better one, or try and get a private territory. And the government does not create services in the same way a corporation does.

>>133475441
You neglect to mention the governmental regulations that stymie all attempts at genuine competition.

>>133475429

And why would you consider the government a neutral agency?

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yeah they're the "retarded" ones anon

>pic related

>>133475475
Was to >>133474799

>>133475209
that's exactly my point though
every time it's tried people inevitably have to take power, absolute equality goes out the window, and bourgeoisie class of party elites is that are even worse than capitalist are created

>>133475499
then whats stopping the large bodies in an AnCap society from steamrolling everything and introducing a 1984 life under their reign?

>>133475475
In order to prevent corporations abusing rtheir power, they must have restrictions put in place. For example, net neutrality.

>>133474422
They definitely are at least communism works in theory

>>133474518
You have to remember that people like >>133474573 aren't trying to create a healthier, more efficient, or more prosperous society. People like him actually have no grasp on the notion of "society", or "people", plural. They only believe in the individual, and the ideology is structured around that. They want the free market to function like Darwinism.
But the issue is that they're retarded and don't even understand the context their arguments are in: capitalism, wherein a company's power and success isn't judged by how good its service is, but by how much profit it makes.
They think those profits are linked to the quality of service because they believe everyone else is also an unevolved troglodyte who doesn't understand how society functions.

>>133475921

Everyone has access to weapons.

If someone threatens the principles of ANCAP by enforcing their will over others, then they've broken the NAP and they've got artillery incoming.

>>133475511
State cannot servive without people, so as well as protecting it's own interests, it will encourage the people to protect theirs. And it will protect the people's interets, such as 4chan.

>>133475921
The only thing that would stop such a scenario would be the pockets of the people. If the people continue supporting the company regardless their practice, then the company gets free reign to act as they see fit. This is justifiable you know, if the people wish for it then so it shall be. Money makes the world go round.

>>133475923


Net neutrality relies on the internet being seen as a utility, which is fair enough, but in a free market economy, surely it makes sense to remove regulations and allow the public to vote with their wallets

>>133475987
oooooh
Well, I'm going to at least try and redpill them into not being total faggots

>>133476015
who will fund or create those weapons then? those weapons will be in the hands of the giants that create them and band together to create a society where no-one can go against their will

>>133475483
>With governments, you can always leave
That is not a solution. The government doesnt own all of the land in my country. Theres no basis for it to tax or regulate how I run my own business/live on my own property.
>the government does not create services in the same way a corporation does
If a corporation creates services, then car salesmen build cars

>>133475987

If the people are happy with the services of a large company, then they're happy with it.

If they aren't, then they can buy from smaller companies.

ANCAP gives you ultimate choice. You can't buy out someone by using shitty zoning loopholes and bribes from an outside source -- your land and business are as equal as any.

>>133476015
by who? "muh armed populace" I doubt your average bob and joe have proper firearms training.

>>133475921

Armed citizens? Militaristic society? Nah. I think most ancaps realize it's unattainable realistically, but it doesn't hurt to strive for the principals.

>>133476015
>and they've got artillery incoming.
From who? "Everyone", because everyone has access to weapons?
In other words that "everyone" is functioning as the "large body"? In which case, you haven't actually answered his question at all?

>>133475987
see >>133476058
If they support the company's practices then they deserve the results of their support. Anarcho-Capitalism is the best form of a truly democratic society.

>>133476096
Free market does not always mean prosperous market

>>133475511
What makes me think an unhireable state-wide authority following a common code of law more neutral than a profit driven private security agency?

Not to say the government is without sin, but radical destruction of government and pretending the void will be filled with a benevolent entity isn't the proper response.

I'm all for downgrading government size, but I'm not convinced the completely removing it will have your projected results.

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>>133475986
>communism works in theory

>>133476146

People

Firearms and HE are easy to make in small workshops

A large government or company can never conqueror a people that don't want to be; we've seen it all throughout history.

>>133476239
I do agree with you, but I'd rather have a free and slightly less prosperous market than a regulated and stronger one

I just did a quick research about Anarcho-Capitalism and came up with this Reddit thread explaining how it is a stupid ideology.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/6cxnb1/sorry_anarchocommunists_you_were_right/
>Why is anarcho-capitalism stupid? Well for starters, it's an oxymoron. You can't have capitalism without a state. Private property is simply the state in miniature. The state developed out of private property. The state exists to protect private property. The state is in place to protect the rich and the powerful and the privileged in society. That is its main function. There is an inextricable link between private property and the state. True anarchy requires the abolition of private property, otherwise the tyranny of the state will simply be replaced by the tyranny of private property owners.
My questions are satisfied.

>>133476190

Your average Bob and Jane can use IEDs and rifles just fine.

>>133476220
Well yes, exactly.
Like I said, you people aren't interested in a healthier or more prosperous or efficient society.

>>133476330

Kek

>>133476210
a world where principles could be upheld and respected would be a genuine utopia, but sadly we can never achieve this

>>133476275
>tomahawk missiles, drones and nuclear missiles
>M4s and frag grenades
of course, viva la revolution buddy

>>133476296
>slightly less prosperous
That's not what free means either. Free means up as far as up goes and down as far as down goes.

>>133476296
Why would you have that?

itt, a commie faggot.

you want a degree of ancap, like america USED TO BE.

small govt is best. the ancaps have many good ideas, you just can't go too far down the road of anarchy.

statism, like we see now...is far more sickening. under ancaps a few kids get raped, but the sickos eventually get lynched.

under the statism we have now...we have organised mass abortions and mass child grooming via institutions. read this shit.
http://unsafeschools.org/the-australian-safe-schools-program-la-trobe-university/

So don't fucking mock ancaps, their ideas are solid and were ideas pushed by the founding fathers. As long as you don't go too far down the rabbit hole, they're solid ideas.

And again, remember america was founded on many ancap principles.

>>133476403
>>tomahawk missiles, drones and nuclear missiles
>>M4s and frag grenades
>of course, viva la revolution buddy

Yes, because it totally helped the Brits against the IRA, right?

Or the Taliban? The VC?

They all only had rifles and IEDs.

>>133476359
>all these buzzwords
If the people want progress they can support progress with their money. Regardless, all those are subjective to the individual and aren't the topic of the discussion here.

>>133476391
Hell, even the retarded Anarcho-Communists think the Anarcho-Capitalists are retarded.

>>133476332

Not effectivly.

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>>133475986
>communism works in theory
Ancaps are by far the least retarded political group in decades, perhaps centuries. They understand that given the rights we agree individuals have, almost any type of intervention is immoral. They know what's right and wrong and stick to their guns, unlikely any other political group who argues through emotional bullying.

>>133476146

This is true. That's why it ultimately doesnt work with large societies. Need a society that is cohesive. Now is when we argue for ethnostates.

>>133476449
I'm not debating that, I'm was just saying that I'd prefer freedom even if it does come at the cost of something like a weaker economy

>>133476470
considering in a society where theres no higher body to stop total genocide of the enemy by a group then massacring thousands to achieve their cause will be a lot easier

>>133476466
>DON'T U DARE MOCK THE ANCAPS THEY SOUND NIGGAZ

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>>133469821
>Would you say anarcho-capitalists are one of the most retarded political groups?
Yes. Sharing is caring.

>>133476466
Who gives a shit what America was founded by?
The founding fathers who believe in that (not all of them) were wrong.

>>133476275
Maybe if the invading faction went with the hearts and minds approach but if it was someone like China/Russia who have waves of conscripts to send and have a policy of scorch the earth I don't think you'll survive that long. Just look how bad disorganized the anarchists in Spain were and this was when the gap between military hardware and a rifleman were much smaller.

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>>133476588
IT WAS FOUNDED BY THE HESSIANS.

GEORGE WASHINGTON IS A BACKSTABBING LIMELIGHT THIEF!!

>>133476584
damnit commie go back to laos and lie in a pile of free bread

>>133476466

Cheers, Nigger.

>>133476491
They DON'T want progress, that's why government exists. They only want personal security and personal prosperity, which is natural.
>aren't the topic of the discussion here
I believe it's important for people to see you for what you are, so they have the correct perspective when judging your ideas.

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>>133475986
>communism works in theory

>>133476651
I'm not sure how to take that. That just sounds super comfortable, anon.

>>133476698
That is, purley on paper, I think he's getting at. It has a wee bit of logical merit, but does not work in real life.

>>133476534
You need to also say you prefer your freedom even if it comes at the cost of catastrophe, horrific suffering, and death. Otherwise it's not relevant to anarcho-capitalism.

>>133476584
Forced sharing is not caring though

>>133476760
I'm interested on where this fucko comes from.
I bet he's a yank from Cali or Seattle or a germ from Berlin

>>133476330

>plebbit
>arguing against every man being his own government
>implying that is bad

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>>133475986
>communism works in theory

>>133476760
can you show me your real flag real quick?

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>>133476773
Ironically, that just shows how ancaps are miles ahead of you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmOUDMAtRt4

Anarcho-Capitalism is literally an orwellian term

it's exactly like English Socialism, that took every principle of true socialism and turned it on its head in the name of socialism.

In the same way, Anarcho-Capitalism takes everything Anarchism has ever meant and turns it on its head in the name of Anarchism.
This is the definition of Orwellian "new-speak"

>>133476697
You either fail to understand how capitalism actually operates, or are under the impression that current "capitalism" is actual capitalism. In a capitalist world the producers are beholden to the consumers. As such they have all the incentive in the world to further enhance their product, whether it be a candy bar or a computer monitor, they will always be looking for ways to design it more efficiently for higher quality. In the age of massive corporate welfare companies are beholden to the government and not the people who use their services, because if they were, they'd be replaced by better competition in a heartbeat.

>>133476859
Who, me?

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>>133476785
Capitalists will get over it.

>>133476773
It has no merit at all because it assumes human beings are inherently good and therefore want to share all their property and goods, that society can function without a religiously inspired moral code, and that people will have an incentive for progress in the absence of reward. It's only good if it was made for another species.

>>133476773
>It has a wee bit of logical merit
Maybe, but most of it is daft, spoilt, autistic semi-jew screeching

>>133476970
the c*mmie

>>133476942
See>>133476883

Now see yourself out.

>>133469821
The whole "NAP" thing is just fucking retarded. Every country and ideology (apart from absolute monarchy/imperialism, or Nazism) abides by the "NAP". It's a dumbshit teenage style circular argument so that pot-smoking teenage diptards who have read nothing of any note except shitposts on 4chan can try and wangle their way out of an argument.

It's fucking brain-rot, sage, sage , sage, sage , sage

Britbong no need to be so buttblasted. It's not our fault you can't handle the freedom.

>>133476978

Nah, we will swing you from lamp posts.

>>133476931
>huehue
I think you've had more than enough of your own share of anarchy, right?

4 words: Espírito Santo, Feburary 7th.

>>133476952
>muh real capitalism has never been tried

Jesus this entire board is retarded why the fuck did i come back here

>>133477074
Oh. yeah, probably from some country that hasn't experienced firsthand the horrors of communism.

>>133476773
It doesn't have the slightest bit of merit you dumb retard

>capital appears out of nowhere
>production cycle starts in the middle
>le surplus value
>wages do not represent the labor value of workers
>the entire theory is built on the basis of arbitrary mathematical relations between unfalsifiable variables

Communism is intellectual gibberish.

>>133476978
don't ignore me you fag

>>133477166
It has most likely been done before, but capitalism cannot co-exist with any form of government.

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>>133476330
>I went to /r/anarchism plebbit to figure out why I'm right
lol

>>133476883
Whether it's bad or not depends on whether you care about civilization existing.
But I think most people argue against it just because it's an impossibility. A fantasy that only exists in theory. Like communism.

>>133476952
>muhh not real capitalism
But this is the RESULT of real capitalism. That's the point, your ideology is not sustainable.

>they will always be looking for ways to design it more efficiently for higher quality.
But that's not true. Because they AREN'T beholden to the consumers. The consumers have to consume. Producers don't have to produce. That is an avenue they've taken to increase their wealth. Their capital. And through increasing it they make themselves more and more secure than the consumers.

>>133469821
>Would you say anarcho-capitalists are one of the most retarded political groups?

Yes

>>133477206
the larpflags made shilling retarded ideologies viable again
hiroshimoot needs to be gassed

>>133477206
To find Jesus?

>>133477216
It's talking mainly about a worker's uprising and establisnh a place where everything is equal, but usually just degenerates into state capitalism. It's never worked.

>>133477166

But He is right, friendo. I get the meme, but it's not an argument.

>>133476942

Ancaps took anarchism to its logical conclusion

Anarcho-communism is literally not possible, but anarcho-capitalism is the ONLY kind of anarchism possible

If people dislike Ancap, its because they dislike anarchism.

>>133477250
>But this is the RESULT of real capitalism. That's the point, your ideology is not sustainable.
>Thinks america was ever capitalist

>>133477223
Because it's the antithesis of civilization.

>>133477250

It's a fantasy, yes, but we should at least try.

>>133476987
No phampai that's not why it doesn't work. It doesn't work because its nonsense. Marx was a brilliant thinker, but he had his head so far up his ass he ended up creating a theory that was almost completely isolated of material reality.

>>133477338
wew lad, if you think having the government breathing down the neck of every company is the best way to push progress then you need to go neck yourself.
You should also kys if you genuinely believe that civilization would dissolve along with the state.

>>133477318
i'm pretty sure all old fags know this
i've never met an oldfag who doesn't understand the logic behind any of the major pol ideologies
these threads are either all new faggots or trolls or shills
either way i refuse to partake in the circle jerk anymore

>>133477299
Holy shit you're dumb.

>>133477318
Anarchism has as its core principle the opposition to any form of domination or hierarchy.
That's the precise opposite of Anarcho-Capitalism, where the world is dominated by centers of extremely concentrated wealth and all the bulk of the population does is take orders from above.

That's why I said it's Orwellian:
this is exactly how Emmanuel Goldstein describes English Socialism in "The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism"

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>>133477318

Anarcho communism is a hippie commune. It works, it's just dangerous, inefficient and frankly pretty gay.

>>133477502
What can I say? That's the effects of reading the commie manifesto.

>>133477223
>>133477300

Tell me then, which part of

>private property, capital accumulation, wage labor, voluntary exchange, a price system, and competitive markets

is not currently the status quo?

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>>133477539
>Anarcho communism is a hippie commune. It works

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>>133477140
>shifting goalposts when exposed for being wrong
Would you look at that.

>>133477387
Why should we?

>>133477328
>muhh not real capitalism yet again
>didn't address any points

>>133477423
If your "real capitalism" was a more efficient system for progress than the state, it would have replaced the state millennia ago.
>if you genuinely believe that civilization would dissolve along with the state
If you dissolve the state, it will simply be reinstated in another form. Because actual human beings WANT civilization. It's only the psychopathic animals like yourself who don't.

>>133477423
Humans formed governments as a consequence of becoming civilized.

Every time government disappears around the world people turn into savages

>>133477630

>Theft of labor through taxes
>incentivized laziness through welfare programs
>government regulations impacting the market

Just a few of the big ones

>>133469821

No, communists are the most retarded because they typically don't even know anything about communism. They just like it because it shit talks rich people.

>>133477595
Don't read the manifesto you faggot go read an introduction to Marxism or something

>>133477166
Real capitalism had been tried in hong Kong, Singapore and early united States, all three astonishing successes.
Of course you'll never get 100% pure capitalism, but these three instances were as close as mankind ever got.

>>133474799
in usa you have crony capitalism aka socialism ligth.

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>>133469821

>>133477651
I haven't been exposed for being wrong. You say anarchy is good, and I refute it.

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>>133476492
Are you mentally retarded?
>ancaps, fans of a line of literature and economics that proves communism is objectively nonsense and impossible
>anarcho-communists; people that need to reject everything ancaps believe in in order to keep their marxist ideology
>"Haha, even ancoms don't like ancaps, that's how you know it's bad! xD"
mfw

>>133475429
hard for an agency to be neutral when they have a monopoly on deciding what counts as justice and how much should be provided

>>133477792
>taxes are theft
They're not. You give them as part of the social contract, and it benefits society.

>>133477638

It does, as long as no one tries to fuck their shit up. If no one believes in private property... well. I dunno, it works for them? They exist somehow, for short periods of time at least. Then some nut job comes along and let's them to kill themselves. I'm not defending it, but I see where they're coming from in an ideological sense. They can fuck off but I get why they're brainwashed.

>>133477668

>Why should we?

Because it's closer to true liberty. We are slaves right now.

>>133474799
The difference is the State and its monopoly on force, law, currency, etc.

>>133477668
You must stop believing that humanity desires progress. It doesn't.

>>133477749

What both of you fail to realize is that civilization is not reliant upon government, in fact the opposite is true. If civilizations were to vanish over night, governments wouldn't exist. Now what would happen if governments simply dissapeared? All the infrastructure would still be intact. All the people would still be alive. But all the oppresive laws would have dissapeared. I understand you conflate the issue of governance with the existence of civilization, but you fail to take into account the individual causes for the insolvency of those specific governments. I do not believe there exists a single historical example of the state being dissolved without there being a crisis involved in those particular situations, whether it be economic or political. In those situations it makes sense to revert to primitivism, and act according to your immediate needs.

>>133478069

Killing brown people in the middle East does not benefit me. Welfaring nig nogs doesn't benefit me. My labor is being stolen.

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>>133478098
>an ideology with a logical conclusion resulting in the destruction of said ideology works

>>133475923
>abusing their power
i.e. using their property rights

tell us your logically consistent model of property rights and how it isn't a pile of unobjective trash

>>133469821
That's because anything related to Anarchism is absolutely shit and should be frowned upon in civilized societies.

>b-but muh freedom
>muh individualism

YOU CAN GO SHOVE YOUR GODDAMN INDIVIDUALISM UP YOUR DICK HOLE, CUT YOUR STOMACH OPEN AND THEN HANG YOURSELF WITH YOUR OWN GUTS YOU GODDAMN SCUMS, YOU ARE THE ONES WHO BROUGHT THE WORLD TO THE SHIT STATE IT IS NOW!

>>133469821
Sage this. All lies.

>>133478059
The alternative is individuals deciding what justice is and enforcing it on other people, which brings us back to
>the strong devouring the weak

>>133478098
>it works

>>133478069

You aren't allowed to buy tea spoons without being 18. I don't need to hear from you, ackmed.

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>>133478098
>works

>>133477985
>I haven't been exposed for being wrong.

Let's see:
>>133476773
>"That is, purley on paper communism works"
>>133476931
>I post explanation to why you were wrong

It seems you got exposed for being wrong and tried to deflect it by starting a completely different discussion. Did you expect to erase my memory with your denial?

>>133478273
>>133478321

Okay, it's retarded. You win.

>>133478236
It's a protection of your interests. If you don't like it, start a movement. The government is attempting to aquire resources, or something. If you don't like it, go against it.

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>>133478098
>works
(last one)

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>>133476274
>>133477638
>>133478273
>>133478321
>>133478352

>>133478300
True strength is economic strength, hiring the weak is more profitable than devouring them.

>>133478334
You can buy teaspoons under 18.

>>133478281
>israel
opinion descarted

>>133478451
hiring the weak then abusing your power to manipulate them

>>133478495
Your "NAP" does not apply in civilized societies

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>>133478416
>>133478400
DDDANK :D YOU MY FRIENDdDS :dDDDD
BERY GLADDDD WE ABREE GOMMIES ARE BADDD :DDDDD

>>133478557
I want you to think about what you just posted. Think really hard anon.

>>133478408

Giving niggers money protects my interests? No. It protects politicians vots so they keep power safely within the almighty government. Get AIDS. Governments are corrupt.

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>>133469821
Who knows what is ultimately right. time will show.

In the meantime we can all work together to once and for exterminate our common enemy. Socialists and Commies.

>>133478098
Why should I want "true liberty"?

>>133478169
You must stop believing that what people desire is important. It's not. Humanity REQUIRES progress.

>the oppressive laws would have disappeared.
All of the laws would have disappeared. The individual causes for government disappearing aren't really relevant, but since you bring it up, it's a good point. It was always because of a crisis involving a specific government. It was never "hey, we the people would be generally better off with no government at all, so bye"

>In those situations it makes sense to revert to primitivism, and act according to your immediate needs.
Is this an argument? If so, how many times are you going to prove what I say about you not caring about civilization?
We don't say that people's barbaric natures don't make sense. We say that government is necessary to counteract them.

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>>133478473

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-26574789

>>133478451
I somewhat doubt that in a lawless land, the man sitting on a gold mine will be hired by that who has men and arms at his disposal.

>>133478676

If you want to be a slave to your government, so be it.

>>133478556
If you hired someone, then that means that axionically, that person is better off than he or she would otherwise be without that job. Claiming otherwise is the generic cuck-tier post-modernist bullshit that cannot define up and down and right and wrong. People are not oppressed for being offered a wage which is higher than they can get by working alone with the same effort.

And that, by the way, includes child labor. Banning child labor in places like Brazil was utterly catastrophic. While children get armed and go around robing on the streets and dying before reaching 20, putting them to work is illegal.

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net neutrality is the worst solution.

it has no net effect in preventing censorship (look at the history of the fcc) and negates privacy protections (entitled to you be natural law / constitutional), by the virtue of it being a private company.

I'm not saying the idea of net neutrality isnt good, but this isnt a solution. There are solutions, so almost by definition the reason net neutrality is being pushed must be nefarious (not the least hint of which is that its being pushed by soros)

ib4 autistic screeching

>>133478625
No, you think about what I said.

>>133478281
>being this much of a brownnose bootlicker
Statists always like to larp as violent authoritarians, why?

>muh joos

stopped reading there

>>133478849

Shoo shoo, shill

>>133478838
>to my government
>my
Another strawman instead of answering the question.
If you can't even explain to people why they should want what you offer, how do you expect your ideology to gain any ground?
What is the value of your morality and philosophies and theories about "liberty"? Tell me, so I can compare it to the value of society, infrastructure, legal systems, law enforcement, etc.

>>133478733
>http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-26574789
It's tesco's and they also had to apologise. It's not illegal for under 18's to buy teaspoons.

>>133478676
>All of the laws would have disappeared.
That's what I said? Didn't you read my post?

>You must stop believing that what people desire is important. It's not. Humanity REQUIRES progress.
And you really think I'm the psycopath here?

>It was always because of a crisis involving a specific government. It was never "hey, we the people would be generally better off with no government at all, so bye"

And here is the most important point. Once government came into existence, none dared to make an effort to genuinely dissolve any established state so that a free marketplace could reign king. The dissolvement of any particular state was followed by an even stricter state taking it's place. This doesn't have to be, because economic power is more important than perceived power like the president.

>>133478897
You think the non-agression principal is only tied to ancap or libertarianism?

>>133478941
That's because I rejected modern individualism, I wholeheartedly believe that Authoritarian Centrism and Moral Relativism is the only way we can achieve peace, unity and security.

>>133477528
Someone some centuries ago takes a word and changes its meaning, and therefore we should all comply to historical use instead of etymological roots? That's fucking retarded, if there's a fight for the word anarchy, ancaps are the only ones respecting its original meaning.

What anarchy always meant until Proudhon came up with his dumb ass biased definition was a lack of IMPOSED hierarchy. Look up who the Archon were in ancient Greece, and tell me exactly why Potters with apprentices were not called archon and only politicians were.

Voluntary hierarchy is not incompatible at all with anarchy.

>>133478994
I fucked your mom

>>133479116
>Authoritarian Centrism
>Moral Relativism
>Flag

You guys can stop biting now

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I always laugh when ancaps talk about free market principles, then start drooling over blatant monopolization.

>>133479081
It sure as damn tied to that when you autists demand it for yourself and not for the nation.

>>133479021

I'll tell you why I want it. I want to own all of my labor. I don't want anything from anyone unless I earn it. I don't have an interest in contributing to a society I don't agree with. I want to be my own government. If you don't want those things, if you want to be a worker bee, go ahead. I don't really care if you agree.

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>>133479116
>centrism
>peace

>>133479214
What do you mean?

>>133479116
>Moral Relativism
if we only intern all the jews that seems relatively moral compared to what hitler did. we should try that.

Turns out, youre relatively retarded.
flexible morals means no morals.

>>133479055

>muh butter knife

I don't care what you think if you're arguing for a government taking your labor for things that don't benefit you. Eat shit, dick nose.

>CAPTCHA: click until there are no roads

>>133479081
>all laws are oppressive laws
So NAP as well? Or is it not oppressive when it's the entire society threatening to kill you for violating it, as opposed to a designated body who's educated about the law?

>And you really think I'm the psychopath here?
Of course. Needs come before desires, but you don't care about the needs OR desires of other people. That's what makes you a psychopath.

>none dared to make an effort to genuinely dissolve any established state so that a free marketplace could reign king.
You mean none wanted to.
There have been plenty of peasant revolutions in history.
Economic power IS perceived power. You believe that the fact you physically possess resources means you have influence over others. The state has law enforcement and military at its command. People perceive your "economic power" to be legitimate because the state imposes laws on them preventing them from using force to take the resources you're holding.
You understand?

>>133479386
I don't talk about on the individual level, I'm talking about international level. Let each could try have their own morals and ethics, if they want to fail then let them fail, screaming about "muh world rights, muh world ethics" brings nothing but instability.

>>133479483
>>133479081
The only power that's not perceived is violence.

>>133479483

NAP is not a law. It's a principal. That's what the P stands for.

>>133479244
>"then start drooling over blatant monopolization."
Care to explain?
As far as I'm concerned, the freer the market, the more difficult it is to monopolize anything. After all, products compete even with industries that aren't their own. Even in the current world monopolies are rare, and the few that exist are entirely done by the government on purpose.

>>133479597
A principle that's imposed on others using the threat of violence is a law.

>>133479502
Then what you are actually talking about is nationalism

>>133479597
A law I'd an enforced principle

>>133469821
NatSoc fags really want to be ruled over and suck authoritarian dick

>>133479637

Violence begets violence. If you think you can do whatever you want then society has no hope. The principal has to be agreed upon by all members of society for it to work. If you don't agree, you're out, move away.

>They're a bunch of fucking nonces, as you can see by other threads, like the "10 years old? old enough" one. Basically, if your age is on the clock, you're going to have to sit on their miniscule cocks.
That's shitposting, retard. We think that there should be no age of consent, however, that desn't mean we are pedos,
>They're just corporatists in disguse. Anything pro-corp, is pro-them. They're as bad as the socialists living my my country. "hehe well the internet needs to be censored by government" "As an anarcho-capitalist, net neutrality is bad because it disallows corporations from extorting you and manipulating you to use their services by slowly choking out any competitors :((
The whole point of net neutrality is allowing more competitors. How can a small corporation have the bandwidth to support 10000 people watching netflix all day ? It also can make your service cheaper, because someone who lurks a mongolian forum from 2003 doesnt use as much bandwidth as someone who watches pewdiepie all day. Also, in an ancap world, there would be no regulation over where you can put fiber. Google has to place fiber one city at a time because of stupid statist bureaucracy. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually reject competitors trying to put fiber on the ground. In an ancap world? Start a small corp, buy good infraestructure, no need to go GIGANTIC tho, put fiber in a city or two, start growing.
>extorting you
If that becomes a reality, someone would make a consumer friendly ISP. Easy money.

>>133479637
But it isn't imposed.

>>133479483
>Genuinely believes anybody understands the american legal system

If people desire to die they should be perfectly able to. If people desire to eat food they should be able to. If people have a desire towards their needs going unfulfilled they should be able to.

Of course none wanted to have a competitive market, big businesses hate free markets because they get fucked over by people with better practices. This is where government comes in and takes a cut in order to keep that company from getting replaced by a higher quality company. The only winners in a civilization that has a government are the top government employees/officials, and the officials of the companies that bribe the officials. It's far more profitable for someone who dissolved a state to just set themselves up as a dictator or install another system of government and just use the perceived power any "law" has to take money from the people who succeed in your nation. Consequently the successful people become not the people who genuinely want the best experience for their users, but the people with the most money to bribe the officials who tighten the regulations on their particular industry to prevent people from even trying to compete.

Stop falling for these retarded baits

>>133479718
Nationalism and Patriotism. Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, they all had the right idea of creating a unified society working for a common goal, unifying all the people of the nation under a single mindset in order to create understanding and a brotherhood sensation across their nation's.The West, specifically the United States, also tried to create such unity under the idea of Liberty and Individualism but it backfired and today we see people in the West completely rejecting the idea of a unified culture and ideas, you can see the results of what in the form of Multiculturalism and the rule of minorities.

>Oh yeah, that and the fact that they constantly contradict themselves. "jews wouldn't have any power in an ancap world", despite the fact that one of their main "leaders" is Rothberg. See anything wrong with that name? And also the fact that the majority of banks and corporations are owned by jews. Comcast, a company they want to hand the internet over to, has a jewish owner, a certain Brian L Roberts.
In an ancap society, jews wouldn't have any power over YOU because you wouldn't buy anything from them or use any of their services. They can't have power over anyone that doesn't enter into a voluntary agreement.
>Here is some further hypocrisy on the side of ancaps. They also complain about how "A two choice system isn't voluntary" in the American government, yet they support the idea of an internet controlled by 3 or 4 isp's. "hmm yes you have a wide selection of 4 choices so it's voluntary, oh, yes, and they're PRIVATE, so that makes them more trustworthy because it's made by the people!"
Read above. Also there is nothing wrong with good monopolies. If 4 companies provide a good service, then there is no reason to complain. Not saying american ISP are good, tho.

>>133479764

The society is based on people believing in the principal that no one is allowed to violate anyone else's liberty. That is the only rule. You can do as you please as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

>>133480113

I feel like it's a good discussion. Stop posting in /PTG/

>>133479997
>If that becomes a reality, someone would make a consumer friendly ISP.
many pllaces disallow laying cable where there is already service (((Lobbying))).
>no need to go GIGANTIC tho, put fiber in a city or two, start growing.
a competitor that wishes to destroy or acquire you only needs to price you out of a pairing agreement, and now your internet connection just became a city wide intranet connection.

There really isnt a good market only solution for Internet.

>>133480173
That rule may apply to individuals, but not the state, and if the state feels threatened and needs to conscript some of it's members than it has the right to do so.

>>133480327

How could there be a good discussion if the OP is "da joos be keepn us down n shit" the post? This is a stormfaggot bait thread.

>>133480441
You should read the thread friend.

>>133480362
see >>133473679

>>133480373

What state? There is no state. The individual is the state.

>>133480115
>but it backfired and today we see people in the West completely rejecting the idea of a unified culture and ideas, you can see the results of what in the form of Multiculturalism and the rule of minorities.

>multi-culturalism

This is kinda crux of the argument though isnt it?
You cant have one [set of] driving principal stemming from many cultures, or moral principals.

People used to come to america to become american.

Now that america is wealthy, they come to america to become wealthy thus avoiding assimilation and killing the golden goose..

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>>133469821
>w-without le based state keeping us in line people would be touching kids!!!!

t. statist living in a country where the government is run by pedophile rings

https://news.vice.com/article/uk-police-investigating-five-alleged-pedophile-rings-involving-highly-influential-politicians

>>133469821
lmao ancaps are about as intelligent as the horses they use for labor. They think everyone will magically follow some stupid principal and itll be all hunky dory, but when that shit happens they will be the first to get shot. All ancaps must be sterilized

>>133480533

>economic arguments

this is irrelevant, given that libertarianism is a moral stance

>>133480583
The individual is but a single member of the state, he has his rights but he also has his duties to the country he lives in.

>>133480678

>I need mummy state to protect me

I'll argue for ethnic barriers, but that would sort itself out real fast.

>>133480533
natural monopolies, also
>many pllaces disallow laying cable where there is already service (((Lobbying))).


but this is about to become a circular argument where you tell me, if that is the case then someone will start a new ISP, and I reiterate to you that there is nothing mandating that a small independent isp is granted pairing with other larger isps and therefore the internet.

round and round we go.

not a solution

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>>133480708
>implying cultural sentiments aren't politically relevant

>>133480740

Not in paradise, kike

>>133480621
That's exactly what I meant. People use to come to the United States in order to adopt it's culture and be assimilated in to a single body, now you see people coming to the US and refuse to become part of the collective, the very notion of minorities and immigrants becoming fully Americans is labeled as extremely offensive these days

>>133480892
Paradise is unachievable Zukerberg get used to it

>>133480740

t. Thomas "but muh social contract" Hobbes

I think Jews should be used in slave labour to mine asbestos to the Egyptians because their forefathers had a duty to the state.

>>133480850
They don't need to pair up with other isps? All you need to be an isp is a dns, and ability to lay and maintain the network cables.

>>133481033

I wish the holocaust actually happened, fuck face.

>>133479843
And when someone doesn't want to give up their property and move away?
What happens then?

>>133481112
Your butthurt feeds my soul

>>133480866

this "b-but what stops the dinner down the road from poisoning muh bacon and eggs?" discussion is a stalemate, it never goes anywhere.They want us the laydown how every single aspect of a state-free society would work, which is a falacy.

>>133481054
The Jews back then we're not part of the state, only citizens are part of the state.

>>133481112
And I wish Trump would go full Authoritarian on your ass

>>133481119

Then they follow the NAP. If they're a violent asshole there is no place for them. If they dont want to provide for themself they starve.

>>133481315

Who defines citizenship? Isn't it the state itself?

>>133481355
This NAP thing is the most fucking autistic idea I've ever heard of

>>133481355

>muh NAP

Stop defining a movement from the memeball threads on /pol/.Have you ever read a single libertatian author?

>>133481399
Yes, the state does that. Don't forget that the modern state exists for only a few centuries.

>>133480111
But it is imposed.

>Another strawman about understanding the American legal system
What are lawyers, anyway?

>should be able to
>should be able to
>should be able to
What point are you trying to make?

>big businesses hate free markets because they get fucked over by people with better practices
And small businesses hate free markets because they get fucked over by people with better practices, who become big businesses
And the individual people hate free markets because they get fucked over by the fluctuations of that market, which doesn't give a shit about their well-being and doesn't give a shit about how hard they work to earn a decent life.

>It's far more profitable for someone who dissolved a state to just set themselves up as a dictator or install another system of government
It's also more profitable for the people themselves, which is the reason they supported it.

>Consequently the successful people become not the people who genuinely want the best experience for their users, but the people with the most money to bribe the officials
Interesting non-argument.

>>133481543

So there's no difference at all between your "duty to the state" to the "duty of the state" of an Egyptian king.

>>133473849
yes he is based as fuck

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>>133481590
You have to be a pure incarnation of bait.

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It's astonishing how many /pol/ users have completely bought into "corporations are evil and will fuck me if big daddy government isn't there to stop them!" meme.

https://mises.org/library/myth-natural-monopoly
https://mises.org/library/net-neutrality-scam
https://www.fff.org/explore-freedom/article/the-misplaced-fear-of-monopoly/

Required reading for anyone arguing economics. This isn't even ancap shit it's just basic economic concepts.

>>133481355
I'm sorry it seems like you misunderstood.
They DON'T follow the NAP. They disagree with it.
You tell them there is no place for them and they disagree with that too. They don't want to follow the NAP and they don't want to give up their property. Now what happens?

Providing for themselves has nothing to do with anything.

>>133481669

"duty of to state" of an Egyptian king.*

>>133481450

If you want to explain that I will listen.

>>133481484

I studied philosophy on the side in college while getting my Econ degree. What's your point.

>>133481689
>I can't refute any of your points so you're just trying to bait me

Yeah I'm trying to bait you into intelligently defending your meme of an ideology, and it seems to not be possible.

>>133481724

Then they fuck off. They decide to violate the NAP they die. Takes an effort to violate the NAP.

>>133481755

>I studied philosophy therefore I'm the all knowing God

Your understanding of libertarianism comes entirely from memes on /pol/.You should at least read the main libertarian authors (mises, rothbard and hoppe) before spewing shit.

>>133481724
Well then they go hunt the people who do believe in the NAP until they're finally eliminated by someone who recognizes this party for the NAP breaker they are. It is a 2 way agreement you know.

>>133481835
I've already replied to all your points multiple times, but your replies don't make sense. And if you couldn't see the implications of my beliefs with the "they should be able" stuff, then you're not cut out for higher thought.

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>>133476180
You retard, what if the big company is constantly killing the small ones? You can't buy from a company that is dead or you don't know about.
You autists also think that the consumers know what's best from them and will buy from companies with moral practices. Wrong, good advertising can very well CREATE the need for a producy, even a shitty one.
There would be literally nothing stopping CocaCola from buying every other company on the globe and being the sole provider of shitty, yet overpriced, goods and services.

An-caps need to get a grip on reality.

>>133481669
>>133481728
Not a single individual, no matter of his importance, can be above the state. Every single person, young or old, rich or poor, has his duties to his country, both the poor peasant and the "king" serve the land they live on.

>>133481968
AnCaps would rather see the entire planet burn than to have their precious NAP violated

>>133479631
Under ancap what stops McDonalds from sending McDeathsquads to your small restaurant and scaring away your customers? You don't have the capital to compete with a megacorp, they could squeeze your ass like a pimple without a govt to protect you.

>>133481978

Why did you scape Egypt? You had a duty to the land.

>>133482202
nothing stops them from doing it, except for the NAP. In which case the shitty business practices of McDonalds would implode from all the attacks they would receive from people whose NAP had been violated.

>>133481929

Meh, you're projecting. I'm not claiming to be an authority, I'm having a conversation and tossing in my own two cents based on my knowledge on the subject. I don't need to study this shit tirelessly to have an opinion. It's a lot of common sense.

Morals were taught to me by my parents.

>>133474518
Steam is a terrible example here. Steam is the most popular because it provides value, even if that value has been diminished over the years due to a lack of solid competition. Additionally, it fails as an example because there are practically zero govt regulations on the digital distribution business model, which means that a competitor only needs to give better value than Steam to begin making a dent. The reality isn't that Steam has some artificial lock down on the digital distribution market, the reality is that they blow the competition out of the water at nearly every single point (Origin is pretty shit and it's attached to a shitty company; Bethesda Launcher is a broken mess and is obviously a barely transparent attempt to push paid mods after Valve backed off from that scheme; Uplay is shit and is attached to a shit company; GFWL was intrusive and shit; Windows store is a less than transparent attempt to pull an Apple and create a "closed garden" ; I think Desura and GG Galaxy are about the only genuine attempts at bringing value to the consumer but Desura is pretty amateur and Galaxy is basically a second Steam on your hard drive you don't need.

The reality is that almost all actual monopolies are almost always created because of govt regulations (often supported by the existing players in an industry), other than that, most "monopolies" are simply due to a lack of alternative value or the particular market being far too limited in scope to allow more than one or two operators.

Note, I'm not an ancap, I just realize that most people are confused on what actual monopolies are and why they exist.

>>133482303
All of the shitty mom and pop businesses in town could join forces and wage war on McDonalds and they'd lose in this scenario. Especially when you consider how much more vastly wealthy McD's would become under ancap.

>>133482210
Slaves aren't the same as citizens. Again, we aren't discussing ancient times, all is discussed about post-Westphalia Geopolitics.

>>133474772
All equally free to be raped by the local warlord

>>133469821
Yes, they are.

>>133482303
>private armed guards
and boom you have corporatism

>>133482461

Sweetie, not a single individual, no matter of his importance, can be above the state. Every single person, young or old, rich or poor, has his duties to his country, both the poor peasant and the "king" serve the land they live on.

>>133481874
They don't fuck off. I'm not sure how many other ways I can explain this to you.

>They decide to violate the NAP they die.
What do you mean? How do they die?

>Takes an effort to violate the NAP.
Not much of an effort.

>>133481953
>until they're finally eliminated by someone who recognizes this party for the NAP breaker they are.
In self defense, you mean? I mean it's kind of obvious they're an NAP breaker if they're attacking you. So in other words, they're free to wreak havoc on your society until they happen to attack someone who kills them.

>but your replies don't make sense.
What confused you?
>and if you couldn't see the implications
I asked you to say what point you were trying to make.
Being "able" to do things is vague and useless phrasing. A person stranded in the middle of the ocean is still "able" to eat food. That would be the ancap interpretation of what you're saying, correct?
Mine would be that if they have no food available to them, they aren't able to eat any food.

>>133482366
You don't even need to stop at digital game stores that you install on your computer, any online store that sells games digitally is competition for steam. Hell the developers will often sell their games straight to you on their own website. The idea that steam has a "monopoly" over anything is laughable.

>>133482517
You have a choice of warlords. You have Jerome, Tyrone, or Bob the Builder. Each are equally hands-on.

>>133482353

I meant to reply to (deYcw/mP) actually, just noticed it sry

>>133475354
Who's going to stop you harming kids though? It's not profitable.

>>133482517

That doesn't exist. There is no warlord because anyone who tries to be one is killed. It's a thought experiment. From the thought experiment we try to strive sensibly for the ideal society. Some people take the shit seriously and really want this as a reality. It would be great, but it wouldn't work on a large scale in today's society.

>>133482647
>He can't argue properly
>Compares modern times and ethics to ancient times
>Use the "sweetie..." argument
Trash, you negros should have stayed under Colonial rule.

>>133482366
Not even as an example of a monopoly, just as customer abuse. Customers have nowhere else to turn to, so Steam gets away with lowering the quality of products gradually to increase profit, just because they can.

There should be a law put in place where you cannot lower the quality of a product and keep the price the same if the raw ingredients still cost the same amount.

>>133482844

>I-I going to call him a negro!!!!!

ok then, go back to the oven

>>133482695

They are killed for being aggressive. They are shot while damaging another person's property or killed by other members of society for being a threat after they kill/hurt someone. Why are you confused? Your only incentives in ancap are to do whatever you want and not violate the NAP.

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>>133482126
>flag
>mfw an-cap is too evil for joos

>>133482303
Customers don't give 2 shits about that, especially if you have good PR.

>>133482620
>implying investing in the security of your business/person is equivalent to corporations owning everything
Private security firms already exists.

>>133482695
>So in other words, they're free to wreak havoc on your society until they happen to attack someone who kills them.

This happens and is possible regardless of any government or law.

Its not that your replies confused me, but you don't think in terms of what is most likely to happen, you think in terms of what needs to happen.

Well it's true that they have the ability to do so, but exercising that ability would be challenging in that situation, provided they weren't stranded on a stocked boat or something similar. But you had the ability, and the absence of foresaid restrictions to use your intellect to infer what I was proposing as my own beliefs by thinking a little deeper about why I was saying "should be able".

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>>133482903
>There should be a law put in place where you cannot lower the quality of a product and keep the price the same if the raw ingredients still cost the same amount.

>>133483078
Well then what's the problem? If the market wants that then that's what the market shall receive.

>>133482971
It's a fact that most of your cunt is negros and mulatto

>"t-the oven!"
Come up with something more original

>>133482903
It's the same as capping the profits. The company will decrease quality, but add shitty features that nobody needs, so the price stays thebsame.

>>133483206
The most bluepilled response of the week.

The argument on "selling children" is being misunderstood:

- First of all, it's not selling children, but selling the children's CUSTODY, which comes with a whole set of duties you've to the child.

-The argument for putting prices in children, is to engulf them into a system of profit and losses to INCREASE their well-being.In that way, for example. the foster carers who took care the best of it's orphans, could sell them for more because they would be giving you a child with better health, education, etiquette and etc.

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>>133474799
Capitalism is defined as an economic system free of regulation of any kind. Left to function organically as the market demands. At it's essence, capitalism is anarchism.

The US manipulates the monetary system, corporate regulations, tariffs and tax to make sure only a select few tributaries to the government are able to function. I have heard this called a fascistic economy or crony capitalism, essentially from my reckoning, the onset of socialism, starting at the top, the economic failures of which will be blamed on the miasmic bogeyman of the undefined "capitalism" until the proletariat simply blame it for all their problems and call for more socialism, this rich man's bluff is the modus operandi for the modern socialist activist, a common path for even the most staunch businessman given access to power through government corruption. Things like 10,000 pages of new legislation a week makes it impossible for new businesses to enter the competitive market as they can't build up the unreasonably high resources to maintain a legal team army to constantly sift through all the regulation or for that matter pay for ever increasing different corporate taxes, leaving only the corporations and banks at the top which we are told are simply "too big to fail".

@133483248

Not replying to a dishonest kike like you anymore.I was being civil and you after being corned started resorting to insults.

>>133483503
>when keynesian economics saves your country but you deny it and act like hayecks was right all along

>>133483459
>selling children
yes very ethical goy

>>133483569
>"You should have remained slaves!"
>Civil

ancaps are god damn mongs and one of the worst plagues upon this board.

>>133483117
Not when that secruity force is used to expand company property and to force other companies into submission.

>>133483057
I'm not asking about the self-defense part, that's established. It has nothing to do with the NAP, it's about survival instinct.
>or killed by other members of society for being a threat after they kill/hurt someone
Why are you being so dishonest?
You admit that the only incentive besides that is to do whatever you want; there is no obligation to society, or any greater good, or anything beyond your own private interests.
If NAP is just a principle, that's not being imposed on us by anything, despite you claiming it's an incentive, why would it be in my private interests to resist the aggression from the NAP violator? It wouldn't. It would be in my interests to join him. Because the only resistance his attacks face are each of his victims, as they individually defend themselves.

But that's not the case in Ancapistan is it.
In Ancapistan, NAP is a law that's being enforced by the society as a whole, to prevent that scenario from happening.

to:133483760

are you going to refute anything or just ">mu jooss" your way out of it?

>>133483840
Very plainly, if someone violates the NAP, it is permitted to simply vaporize them. If such a company attempted to try this they'd get their shit kicked in so hard economically that they wouldn't even be able to support those "security forces".

>>133484212

It's like these retards don't live in the real world.The United Airlines lost over $1bn just for dragging that guy out the plane, what do they think would happen if someone started "forcing other companies into submission"?

>>133484212
Burger King to Wendy's: You have landered out company, you must pay in blood
"no way burger king"
and then burger king forces steamroll wendy's and violate their bodies for violating the NAP

>>133484054

You're right. I misspoke. I guess if you want to live and preserve society those are incentives. It's a thought experiment, chum. The law, if you insist on calling it that, is not violating your liberty as long as you are not violating anyone else's.

In ancapistan humans have the most incentive to achieve and innovate.

>>133484430
fuck me I need to get a new keyboard
"you have slandered our compay"

>>133483117
>This happens and is possible regardless of any government or law.
That's not true, though. An armed robber who gets shot by the police was attacking the store, not the police. They weren't free to wreak havoc until their target killed them. They were free to wreak havoc until the law enforcement arrived to impose the law upon him. Do you agree or disagree that the robber is LESS free to wreak havoc in that scenario?

>but exercising that ability would be challenging in that situation, provided they weren't stranded on a stocked boat or something similar.
You've still yet to make a meaningful point.

Commies are more stupid, there's proof that their system doesn't work, Anarcho-Capitalism hasn't been tried yet.

>>133484436
>In ancapistan humans have the most incentive to achieve and innovate.
You need to actually substantiate that with something if you want to call it a thought experiment.

>not violating your liberty
And your understanding of liberty is how I described in the other post, right? Being technically still "able" to eat food even if there is no food available to you

>>133484430
Thats not how the NAP works genius. Also:
>implying arbitrators wont exist

>>133484498
I can see my examination of you was correct. You don't look behind to understand the present.

You really think they wouldn't get shut down faster than the police response time in an ancap society?

>>133484993
I mean modern police response time in contrast to an ancap society's citizens

>>133484838

What drives humans to innovate? Autism is an acceptable answer, but mostly it's survival and trying to spread your seed. How do you survive? Build a better gun. How do you fuck more chicks? Get more money. You're in charge of your survival and given the freedom to actually make money for your labor and efforts.

>>133484993
In an ancap society where the NAP isn't being imposed on anyone, and is only "enforced" through self-defense? Yes.

>>133485178
You do realize what the NAP is right? If the NAP is broken by someone then you can't violate their NAP. So explain your point again please.

>>133485414
So violating the NAP is forbidden but if someone does it they do not recive any consequence?

>>133485716
I think you need to go back to school and go heavy on reading comprehension.

>>133485716

It's the opposite of that, retard. Think an eye for an eye.

>>133485149
Government itself is an innovation. For survival, too, just like you said. Did you forget that?

>You're in charge of your survival and given the freedom to actually make money for your labor and efforts.
Can't respond to that until you answer whether what I said before is what you think "freedom" means.

>>133485414
>>all laws are oppressive laws
>So NAP as well? Or is it not oppressive when it's the entire society threatening to kill you for violating it
You two were trying to argue it's not a law, and that it's not being imposed on anyone.
Idk what's worse, really. That you think it not being imposed would be a good thing or that you didn't understand the whole point of it was TO be imposed.

>>133485817
>>133485909
>You do realize what the NAP is right? If the NAP is broken by someone then you can't violate their NAP.

What I got from this was: if someone breaks the NAP you can't break their NAP

>>133486013
Of course not everyone would believe in it. Just like not everyone believes that killing people is inherently bad. But for capitalism to work it's a necessity, and sure it's oppressive, but in an ancap society it would be very easy to acheive any goal you had, and if you wanted to kill people you could become a bounty hunter.

>>133486354
think about what happens if you break the NAP. Now consider what happens if it's impossible to break it.