Let's have this discussion again

>>133462130
Nato didnt march into France to stop them leaving the alliance so im really not sure what conspiracy fears the conservashots have this time.
>the oppressive northern army is stipping us from seceding! REEEE!
>HAH if commiefornia tries to leave we'll just annex it back again!
Redneck retards have no ideological consistancy.

>>133462130
>Any serious arguments against an EU military?
First the EU is not a country, so its army would occupying a nations territory.

Second the EU isn't democratic so people in the EU have no say in the make up of a organization that would lead them to war.

>>133462457
NATO isn't a military.

Next point.

>>133462754
>First the EU is not a country, so its army would occupying a nations territory.

The EU military would not be commanded by the EU, but by the nation states in the EU, so your argument is moot.

>>133462754
>Second the EU isn't democratic
It has pretty much the same system in place as the US or the UK. So I have no idea what you are talking about.

>>133462754
>so people in the EU have no say in the make up of a organization that would lead them to war.
Ok then, if the German chancellor has the only say on German soldiers being sent to war... that means the German people have no say in German soldiers being deployed?

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>>133462130
I couldn't think of anything more hilarious than an army of French and Italian faggots led by German autists. You'd all be dead within a week, stupid Euroscum.

>give un-elected
Power hungry government... military power

Yeah, great thinking OP
Now accept refugees at gun-point
Spred 'm cheeks

I'd just like to see who would actually enlist in such a thing.
Or if they cobble this thing out of existing nation's militaries, how many would resign and how many could they get to replace them.

>>133463269
>he doesnt know the EU parliament is elected

>>133463155
Cepп и мoлoт? Tpeбyю cвacтикy! Oнa мeньшe людeй yбилa!

>>133462130
It's not needed. Just keep national militaries and make a European version of NATO.

>>133462130
Why not! The tower of Babble worked out great.
1 Military! 12 languages!
Bound for success!

>>133462130
No. It is pretty much the same thing as removing the guns from a population.

>>133463550
The key change for the EU military is implementing one single language.

>>133463624
What is the advantage of a EU military compared to >>133463539
?

>>133463624
is it arabic

>>133462130
>Any serious arguments against an EU military?
Yeah, let's give Germany control over a military force that could rival the US's. What could go wrong?

>>133462130
Definitely not, empower each unique European culture not amalgamate it.

>>133463624
Agreed goyim

>>133462130
No European state has its army drilled into fighting nuclear warfare(believe me or not, nuclear war still has boots on the ground fighting, ask anybody who was in military during cold war and you'll hear about their drills where they were pretending to drive APC's in safe corridors between radioactive zones etc. etc.) and the only nuclear power left after Britain leaves will be France with about 300 nukes, god knows how many of them will work. The only realistic opponent EU has on the international arena is Russia, which has 7000 nukes and army drilled specifically to fight nuclear war, conventional training is becoming more and more rudimentary and restricted to professionals as the time progresses, with military doctrine calling for liberal use of tactical warheads.

Therefore the ability of such EU army to competently repel invasion from the single great power it might fight with is equal to zero, therefore leaving a question of what purpose does it serve? It's waste of money at best and EU ZOG occupation force at worst.

>>133463749
Probably nothing, the Germans are afraid of themselves

>>133462754
>the EU is not a country

>has enforced (in theory) border
>has taxation rights
>has a legislative body
>has an executive branch
>has a judicial system
>has a head of state
>has foreign policy
>has trade policy
>has a civil service
>has a law enforcement body
>soon to have a military
>has a diplomatic service
>has seats at the WTO and UN
By what measure is the EU not a state

>>133463155
Since when is communism a fucking religion?
I demand a swastika up there.

>>133462130
The EU is incapable of coming to an agreement on what's for breakfast. How exactly would they manage a military force effectively?

>>133462130
Why would we give germany another massive army... that's NEVER turned out well for Europe. They literally can't stop themselves.

>>133463749
The people who would control the European Army would be un-elected officials that after brexit, proved that they're more willing to see Europe weakened then let a country leave and prosper outside the EU.

>>133463883
The demos doesn't support it. The EU will always be an outsider that meddles, and now its even worse

The EU can't afford a military AND social welfare. Time to decide.

>>133462130
Germany will never ever have an army again. Maybe a migrant army but they can only have molotovs.

>>133463695
Common procurement, requiring states to have operational, deployable troops (currently, many smaller states have less than 5% of their troops deployable to crisis regions), focusing on modern warfare rather than old school Soviet scenario type war (e.g. more Navy units than classic tank units), introducing minimum standards such as language skills and common communication linkups between states, reducing overhead, setting minimum standards for officers and professional soldiers in terms of fitness and equipment handling, building up a common EU military airspace (currently, each state defends its small airspace with its own minimal airforce), building up a common air transport system and in flight tanker system, building up a common military intelligence servce (rather than relying on 27 parallel structures which do not share information), having regular common training exercises, having an EU headquarters where state's military generals can discuss and coordinate international missions, streamlining supply and depot lines used for all EU states rather than each just for one state, etc. etc.

tldr - the same reasons why the US has one single military applies in Europe

>>133463749
Why would Germany be in charge of an european army when themselves don't have an army?
If it ever happens it would be France leading it as we are the only military force remaining now that UK left

>>133464426
So they want colonial policing task force like Americans have or like British had?

>>133462130

All of human history, perhaps?

God, leftists and globalists are diseased in the head.

>>133462130
fml i might join this army.

>>133464696
What they want is all states in EU Invest in defense and stop let the US UK and France spending money to protect your ass.
Even if we will never compete with US or Russia on military scale I think it would be more fair if all European states invest in military and not only UK and France.
You realise atm if the US let us down Poland is mighty Russia within 10 days?

>>133462130
ONLY if it exists in addition to each country's own army

>>133464917
>You realise atm if the US let us down Poland is mighty Russia within 10 days?
We're spending 2% of GDP on armaments already and despite lower spending monetary-wise analytics rate our military above German one so I don't get the idea why would we be in the camp that doesn't spend enough on the military.

Russia will take over Poland in 10 days anyway because their doctrine calls for widespread use of tactical nuclear warheads so as long as "EU military" doesn't have nuclear deterrent value(pro tip - your nukes are probably 70% non-functional), it's worthless anyway.

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>>133462130
Know what OP?
I have no arguments.

Do it.

>>133463849
That only means it has to be improved and,expanded. Nato doesnt have the ability to defend most of its eastern members. Nato would win the war sure but only through a liberation campaign. A centralized european army could react faster and more organized than countless small militaries trying to work together.

>>133462897
>The EU military would not be commanded by the EU, but by the nation states in the EU
Okay, then by who and how would a strategy be agreed upon? Would anyone have overriding veto power?

>>133462130
Lack of a countries individual military means the lack of the ability to decide for itself what is and is not worthy of military action in regards to the state and ideals of said country. With a universal military those who submit also submit control over their military because there has to be one central leadership, and I think we all know who wants that.

>>133462130
uh yes, the E Jew will soon fall

>>133465553
>A centralized european army could react faster
Or trade disliked member states for a peace treaty.

>>133465326
That would still be 80nukes. Considering that less than 20 are enough to send any country back to the stone age...

>>133465811
Not enough to win a nuclear war though.

The thing is that Russia can rebuild after such war. They'll grab tons of reparations and just make it work somewhat. People have very shallow understanding of nuclear war, pro tip - you can fight it and you can win it. The retardo hippie "if nuclear war happens everybody loses" mantra is tired, boring and straight up wrong.

>>133462130
EU should probably have its own army since otherwise it is easy prey to foreign invaders. Europeans should realize that they are much more alike than unlike and that there are more nefarious forces lurking outside of Europe.

>>133462130
> Any serious arguments against an EU military?

Why does a trading bloc need a military?

> The EU military would not be commanded by the EU, but by the nation states in the EU, so your argument is moot.

Then what makes it an EU army?

>>133465739
We wont loose east prussia a second time.

>>133466431
>Then what makes it an EU army?
>>133464426

>>133462130
Oh look, it's the German globalist again.

>>133464917
>let the US UK and France spending money to protect your ass.
Sorry, Frenchie, but GErman spending on the military is higher than in France. Look it up.

And you burn quite some money on your aircraft carrier and nukes, so the gap on non-nuclear troops is even wider.

>>133465614
>Okay, then by who and how would a strategy be agreed upon?
Just as now. Each military engagement requires the consent of the state involved. If 3 out of 27 states get involved in a war, it is just the troops of those states which are deployed.

>Would anyone have overriding veto power?
No.

>>133462130
It already has but they need to unite them.

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>>133462130
A serious argument: An actual EU army will create a feedback loop of escalation due to the security dilemma with Russia. NATO cooperation provides the security needed while not creating as much tension as an actual EU army would create.

Alternate argument. The transition period to an EU army would create a tendency towards double taxation, once for each national army and again for a functional EU army. Furthermore the tax costs would probably not be well distributed among the EU states causing further political radicalization among the member states. This extra taxation and political radicalization during a period of anemic european growth is not worth the subsequent effects. Once again NATO provides enough of the benefits of an EU army without the economic and political downsides.

I still think an EU army would be better though.

>>133462130
>fourth reich wants to build an army

I''m not european, I dont really give a fuck personally. But how is the political structure of the EU different than fascism?

why would you want to arm them?

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>>133463978
>unelected officials
No wonder you dumbfucks decided to leave, don't even know how the eu works

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>>133462130
Oh look at this EU army, it's more American mongorel shit trying to extract more money and import more niggers for EU army.

>>133467183
France has twice as many soldiers as Germany.
And I don't count the nuclear power.

A war between France and Germany would end in 3 days.

Not saying they don't have an army, it's probably the third power in Europe. But it's still nowhere close to France or UK

>>133462130
>Any serious arguments against an EU military?

Yes, I'm about to move to an EU country for a job in one of my companies remote office.

I don't want to pay so that bunch of eurocucks go on welfare and prance around with guns playing cowboy.

>>133462130
EU will start ww3 and will lose it.

it is better to disband EU and nato to have many national armies.

You are enemy of europe if you are against EU or EU army.

>>133462130
The EU is not a state. An army would validate their claim of being the european government

>>133462130
No you fucking krautcuck, you are not getting an army. And if you try the burgers will bomb you yet again

>>133464551
Thats the trick here. Officially, germany will not have an army at all. They just happen to be in charge of the european army and alas, that army is preparing for offensive combat. Its all the bad EU and definitely not the germans

The EU will globalise.
Seriously, we need an EU army to balance the power of the US and Russia. We need an EU army to be a superpower again.

Fuck brexit too.

>>133462130

ITT: krauts larping behind EU flag wanting France and UK to die for their stupid Union.

>>133462130
why would we want to support western european neocolonial interests? why would spain want to defend us from r*ssia? it will never happen anyway.

>>133463155
can someone shop a swasitka in there?

>>133471241
t. Frenchman after Treaty of Versailles

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>>133462130
Look on the positive side, refugees love dictators so if Führer Merkel gets her army they'll all feel right at home

>>133462457
...but that's exactly the point here. NATO was a military alliance of free and sovereign countries and the EU is a proper union now trying to stripe countries of their own military and establishing a federal army loyal to Brussels.

>>133463518
He doesn't know that the seven presidents aren't or that the parliament only have a say in 1 of the 7 branches

>>133462130
>should germany have its own "european" army

fuck no

Its a economical unio, but those eurocrats from Germany and France are pushing to making it a nation.

And kindy fuckers start doing 2% of your budget for military since you are allready in NATO.

>>133462130
>creating a real life Militaires Sans Frontières
What could possibly go wrong?

there hasn't been a vote for it. too many muslims. no single language and power structure leads to incohesion. it would be retsrded. final argument: why do you need one? doesnt the burden of evidence fall upon you, the one making the claim for the army?

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>>133473304
The EU would be fine if it actually cared about Europeans; It doesn't and shows no signs of doing so in the future.

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Those shills should start with fulfiling NATO obligations. Not creating hurr durr european army.

>>133474722
Welcome to modern politics, where they do something illogical and to argue against it they uphold you to the sternest of logic.

>>133462130
Yeah. Because who gives a fuck. It is decaying from the inside. Those who wish ill on Europe have already played heir hand and are just watching it rot. What is there to attack but a souless "economic space" with no global value beyond that service?

Concidering how irresponsible they have been this all raises questions as to how others will view the emerging what-ever-the-fuck it becomes.
This is not like the US and a "melting pot" based somewhat on the principles of meritocracy either, but a cluster fuck of tribes, incentive to segregate/domineer over integrating and criminal conspiracy (directed at natives).

>>133462130
Who are they going to fight?

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>>133474496
>Its a economical union

Are you getting paid the same Pawel? Are you getting taxed the same Pawel? Did you get to bring friends Pawel?

No, the union exists on market level. It isn't an economical union. For example you don't have access to quantitative easing if the fuckers don't allow you to, same as us. How the fuck is that an economic union? We are essentially free-trade provinces for the nations with heavy industries.

>>133474895
Sorry it used to be economic union. As in EWG times.

Now french and krauts fucked it up. I`m completly aware what they did to you.
Or how Germans and French used "union grants" to push thier companies into polish/czech/slovak market.

Not to mention how they screwed us with nord stream 2.

List is long. And now those shills whant to cover thier incopetent armies and low spending on them with "european" army.

>>133462130
The solution to mass unemployed refugees could be to put them into a grand European army with which they would then have total control over the populace and a distinct lack of empathy toward the natives, loyal to the state and capable of enforcing any conceivable tyranny they might desire. Perhaps to create another Holodomor.

The Kalergi Plan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw3DYxTeqYY

Soviet engineered famine of 1933
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lyKgeg6qwY

>>133470174
Says the moronic cunt who has no idea how the EU works

>>133462130
no eu military

(unless it is used to fight american military of course)

EU should go back to being a trade union exclusively

>>133462130
>Any serious arguments against an EU military?
An EU military would have to abide by the commands of the EU political leadership (unless it turns into Junta). The EU leadership does not have the best interests of citizens in mind. Look at how they treat the folk in peripheral countries. EU military is by definition 'globalist'. Some of us are nationalists.

People inside ivory towers need to have less power, not more.

>>133475049
The funniest of all thing is this: they plan to man this euro-army with the ackbars they're importing because a) they are absolutely expendable and b) they have no ties to our peoples and would shoot without hesitating.

But their most important trait is this: they are absolutely incompetent. If they actually ever get to implement this, we will witness a revolution so bloody that no single kike (actual or just globalist) will be left alive on our soils

>>133475325
>People inside ivory towers need to have less power, not more.
good statement

unless it's my ivorty tower of course (:

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>>133475079
fixed the caption, too early here

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>>133474874
Don't worry your little head about that.

>>133462130
Fuck your globalist ass, Schlomo

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NO THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING THE NEWS SAID IT WASN'T TRUE

>>133462130
France is the only decent military not under USA control
EU military force is useless

>>133474874
I was thinking about that too. If you advocate in favor of a 'continental' army USA style, it means you have some kind of threat in mind (or you want to kill nationalism even further). So which threat you want to repel, the muzzies and africans? EU already allows them in, so will the army. The Americans? They are our 'allies' and we would lose anyway, continental or not. The Russians? It's best as it is already, I'm not going to wait for commands from cucked eu leadership to defend my country, they might not even care for it. I'm sitting duck without an army, hoping the asshole who pulls the strings considers me worth saving? Fuck that.

>>133462130
>>133476423
If the EU army existed then Germany, the EU hegemon, would be able to throw its weight around despite currently having a shit-tier military. France having the most powerful military in the EU is a good counterbalance to Germany having the largest economy, ensuring that the top two EU countries balance each other out. The EU army is more or less clandestine German rearming, except this time instead of trying to make white people great again Germany is trying to force Europeans to breed with niggers to produce a subservient slave race to be ruled over by the elites.

>>133475387
>If they actually ever get to implement this, we will witness a revolution so bloody that no single kike (actual or just globalist) will be left alive on our soils

If they implement this, it'll be something very similar to a UN peacekeeping force, except half as competent. France isn't going to hand over any significant portion of it's military to Germany.

>>133462130

Europe already has an army, multiple infact.

>confusing the EU with Europe

Stop.

>>133471241
France does have stronger military but the difference isn't as huge as you think.
http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.asp?form=form&country1=france&country2=germany&Submit=COMPARE
Given that Germans would be the defending side if France invaded and would have easier time with logistics and manuvering since they'd be on the home turf, situation where French win is possible but far from ensured.

>>133470174

This is a strange and out of touch image which is fitting considering your understanding of the EU. He clearly means unelected by the citizens.

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>>133476658
> it'll be something very similar to a UN peacekeeping force, except half as competent

And the UN peacekeeper have an astounding reputation of being competent, kek

>France isn't going to hand over any significant portion of it's military to Germany.

Obviously. Most european armies are used to shooting Germans, not taking orders from them.

>>133462457
lmao, if California left we'd celebrate because the US would be permanently far-right.

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>>133462130
>Having an army without patriotism

Because that worked out last time

>>133476817
But bundeswher is awfull state.
60-70% of thier IFV/APCs are unoperational or in need of serious servicing.
They have huge morale problems, thier pilots have less flight hours than Polish.
Hell Poland alone has 2x tanks and 4x spg more than Germany.

They are shadow of thier former glory.

>>133462130
We are the main army but we don't have the same millitary interests as Germany, for instance we don't give a fuck about Ukraine.
It's as simple as that

>>133474834
This. Before we'll even consider formation of something new, it'd be good if EU would fulfill its obligations toward what they already have.

>>133462130
The first time we allied with Germany cost us 2/3 of our territory.
The second time we did it the Soviet rapetrain run us over.
Only a fool would make the same mistake three times.

>>133462130
You'll get more out of hiring random PMCs, same thing really - at least Big Boss would be better qualifiedly and equipped however.

>>133474834
>>133477092

One of the purposes behind an EU army is to allow the EU's member states to abandon NATO.

>>133462130
>inb4 uhhhh uhhhh, the oppressive EU army will march into smaller states and kill all dissenters!
But that's what it's about. Just like the Red Army.
Who would even make up this so-called EU army? Nationalists won't die for Brussels, lefties are pussies. New Europeans possibly but they like committing crimes too much.

>>133477331
Fuck never. Good v4 will veto this shit like crazy.
Nato > EU run by Germans. No fucking thanks.

Krauts just want to hide thier low army spending with EU army.

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>>133477151
>2/3 of our territory.

That wasn't populated by magyars.

The cold war is over, stop with the bullshit CNN muh Russia crap

>EU army

They can't even make their NATO payments. I also read not long ago that Germany's air force is basically crippled because they genuinely didn't budget for replacement parts for their helicopters and jets.

>>133462130
STOP TRYING TO COPY US YOU EURO FUCKS.

>>133467275
The EU has been twisted over the years in different ways, and a EU military would be not be immune to it. You can cite whatever you want, but the writing is on the wall for shit like that.

>>133477358
This is part of a much larger ongoing problem with the EU. The member states still see themselves as independent countries and are more interested in protecting their own interests over those of the EU as a whole.

>>133473355
It's hilarious how literally every EU flag poster is always a G*rman

>>133477588
Same goes for thier IFV/APCs.

When Poland has double the tanks and quad SPGs of Germany there is something wrong here.

Not to mention we are buing more Leopards, when Trump visited we finalized deal for HIMARS rocket arty, and Patriots.

>>133462457
Who on the right seriously advocates for keeping California if it secedes? This is legitimately the first time I've seen this said. I think you're making this up.

>>133463536
What's that? Upside down letters???

>>133477588
Fortunately for Germany they have about 2.5 million new engineers and scientists who can figure it out.

>>133462130
You already have the UN peacekeepers to fulfill this role and they're less than useless.

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>>133477588
>They can't even make their NATO payments.
At least Germany pays more of their NATO payments than you. Or do you mean the 2014 Wales agreement that requires "moving towards own budget defense spending of 2% of GDP by 2024"? That is not a "NATO payment", but a NATO target.

>I also read not long ago that Germany's air force is basically crippled because they genuinely didn't budget for replacement parts for their helicopters and jets.
Source? There was a report several years ago when several Eurofighters weren't combat ready (aka deployable to a warzone), but not following this internal military report, the problems (which were predominantly software and logistics ones) have been fixed.

>inb4 broomsticks, please, most of EU's armies use K-ammo during training, the situation with the broomsticks involved a NATO exercise in which the German contingent forgot to ship the on-mount MGs to location and had to improvise for sake of completing the training

>>133463155
>jews
>Muslims
>communists

I'm pretty sure these folks actually hate Europe though.

>>133477871
Why annex it. Just carpet bomb into stone age and then spray with salt. Califalia should die.
>>133477892
AND DOCTORS DONT FORGET DOCTORS !

>>133477358
>But that's what it's about. Just like the Red Army.
So you are saying that the German army, under the command of German generals and only including German troops will march into e.g. Latvia because the EU issues guidelines for EU states' military units and makes it easier to streamline procurement and coordinate missions abroad?

Ok then, Burger, go ahead and explain yourself.

>>133462130
One world government is inevitable, and, ironically, you morons will be the ones to indirectly usher it in.

>>133476799
>>confusing the EU with Europe
Ok then, point to the European country not in a military/political alliance with the EU.

I am waiting.

>>133462130
I want to stay in a real country with his real army, not becoming more and more the bitch of merkel.
I don't trust europa so i hope it will never happen.
Also no thanks i don't want tonpay more taxes

>>133478146
NATO is military aliance
EU should be or rather used to be economical alliance to counter economic strenght of US and China (EWG rember that)

Now you krauts push it as some kind super eu state (aka 4rd reich) when Germany pulls all strings.

>>133477772
As they should. Europe will never be a copy of the US like Brussels wants it to be. Europe is full of different cultures and languages, all with their own history spanning thousands of years.
They'll destroy it all by flooding them with blacks and arabs.

>>133473355
>France and UK to die for their stupid Union.
Last I checked the UK is leaving and France is requesting German support on pretty much all their colonial military missions from Chad to Niger to Algeria to Cote D'Ivor.

I do not think Germany asked France to fight its wars in the last decades. Simply because Germany doesn't start wars any more.

>>133478026
But that'd be a waste of perfectly good space for development. If it secedes, I'd rather US keep it isolated till it turn into shithole and people know how much they fucked up before instigating a coup and have California beg to rejoin, after which fixing and heavy-handedly changing retarded policies that made them suffer in the first place should go without too much of an issue.

There is no point to a European army until they are ready to remove nonwhites.

>G*rms want foreigners to fight and die for their Turkish caliphate

When will they be stopped for good?

>>133478146
Belaruse

>>133473107
What's your concern, Greek. I understand Greece will leave the EU by 2020, so you should not even be interested in the idea of an EU military.

Gee, I dunno...

See the EU was sold to most countries as a trade deal and a right of free movement pact.

But oh look! Germany is now trying to dictate internal politics to SOVEREIGN NATIONS and is shaming them internationally if they don't agree(Look:Hungary).

And now, the federative republic of the 4th reich wants to conjoin militaries!

Nope, still nothing wrong with that!

Gee, I sure do hope this trade deal doesn't end up being more opressive than yugoslavia ever was!

but what are the chances of that?

>>133478063
Is the EU army a German army?

>>133477871
>>133462457
If anything I've seen right wingers advocate the expulsion of California.

>>133478294
>Simply because Germany doesn't start wars any more.

No you prefer to start civil wars instead, it's much easier to cripple Europe by flooding it with shitskins instead of fighting a conventional war.

>>133463883
>What is a supranational organization
Its like you guys don't know shit about intl. law... Oh, wait! You don't!

>>133478306
Well to be honest I consider California gene pool fucked up. Same goes for Germany if SHTF i would support full genocide on Germans.

They are literaly shiting up europe every 50-100 year

Who fucked up Rome ? Germans.
Who plunged whole Europe into religion wars with protestant shit ? Germans
Who started two world wars and fucked up whole europe ? GERMANS
Who inveted Marxism ? Germans
Who fucked up half of EU (and half of thier country) into 40+ years of commie ocupation ? Germans
Who is fucking up europe white race by importing shitskins ? Germans

Germans have to go, they are epithome of failure.

Sure, in terms of practicality it may offer a more organised reactionary force to forces, but in the dawning of reactionary nationalism, stripping the states of more autonomy is storing the political pot.

I'm not gonna pretend like I know exactly how this would be better or worse then NATO, but more political language that implies disolvment of the nation-state in favour of a centralised Europe is just sitting the pot of radicalisation amongst the growing nationalist (whom, in my observation, seem to lean word autonomy for their nation-state rather then centralisation)

Yeah, EU is a state at this point. But political language that makes blatant this fact might not be the smartest idea.

>>133477772
I'd say that nationalistic attitude is what saved some of the Europe from total shitdive. Sure, it may seem like absolute cooperation and loyalty would help - and in some cases it would - but it'd also make whole Europe susceptible to Brussel's fuck-ups. Imagine every European country inviting a few millions of muslims, going with the whole islamophobia propaganda bullshit eagerly and so on - it'd be a cancer that would dom the continent and possibly have it drown in nuclear fire after they'd start rattling sabers trying to force rest of the world to their way of thinking.
Assuming member countries wouldn't simply pull out if they'd be given a choice of absolute submission to Brussels or leaving.

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>>133471241
>France has twice as many soldiers as Germany.
Source on that. France has 400,000 active soldiers?

>>133471241
>And I don't count the nuclear power.
What does nuclear power plants have to do with the military?

>>133471241
>A war between France and Germany would end in 3 days.
Like in 1941?

>>133471241
>Not saying they don't have an army, it's probably the third power in Europe.
Then why do we spend the same?

I'm not really against the idea of a unified army on its own, it's just another step towards the European Superstate that I don't want to make.

>>133474834
Why is the EU in the NATO in the first place? Cold war ended 25+ years ago, it's time to leave the United 'Help me with my imperialistic needs that keep fucking the geopolitical scenario' States to do their shitspreading alone

>>133478664
>Then why do we spend the same?
>>133474834
IMPLYING

>>133478343
>Belaruse
Yeah, the great country of Belarussia.

Next. Give me an important country that matters military.

>inb4 Russia - look at a map

>>133462130
>How can we oppressed you without an army?
>Inb4 "I don't want to oppressed"

Flag fags should be gassed.

>>133462130
Why should a trade agreement have it's own army?

>>133478692
Yes kraut, you can GTFO. Nato would be better without you.

Then I bet in few years US would decide to bring you DEMOCRACY FROM ABOVE.

>>133462130
>inb4 [insert valid argument i cannot dispute]

>>133462130

What good would an EU army do in the world at this point? Certainly not secure the existence of European people

>>133462130
Yes but they shouldn't be allowed to use any kind of weapon :^)

>>133462130
How else will the muslim gang rapists be tolerated, unless they are allowed into the army!
lol
not letting muslims in the european army would be discrimination! don't you know?

>>133478402
>Is the EU army a German army?
No, the point of an EU military is that each state keeps its military... but smaller states cannot leach off of larger militaries and will have to up their standards and also have deployable troops.

Look at Ireland and Austria as an example. They use the larger states to say "we are small, we do not need to contribute". Their military budgets are tiny - in absolute amounts and in terms of GDP. Their deployable troop levels are literally nothing and they have little or no airforce.

The EU military would end these leaches from leaching off the larger players. E.g. Ireland could be assigned a naval role, having to invest in ships and naval units which are deployable. Austria could be forced to train capable and deployable mountain forces and maybe an air battalion with a sizable number of jet fighters or logistics personnel.

The ultimate command of each EU military unit would remain with the EU state. If the EU state refuses to cooperate in a military engagement, then that is it. Those soldiers stay home.

>>133478896
Germans allready have this problem. Many cases of ISIS supportes joining army just for training and then ditching to middle east.

>>133462130
>Any serious arguments against an EU military?
Who does it serve? Even among the EU states each country has very different interests and other than a few sandpeople with 60 year old rifles, Europeans pretty much would only go to war with other Europeans as of now.

When you want to initiate a project you have to provide positive reasons to initiate it, not "becuse why not?" Especially a project that impactful and costly.

>don't pay your fair share? thats okay, give us a larger number of ""volunteers"" and we'll call it even

>>133478547
I kinda understand your sentiment but the whole "wipe it clean" approach I cannot agree with. Even among californians there are decent people and many of the shitheads are merely ignorant, succumbing to the overwhelming propaganda of local politicians without even being fairly provided information about different approach.

Same with Germany. Majority of them seems to be regular people like most of us, just wanting to live their lives peacefully. There are also quite quaified specialists that could prove valuable to the world if pointed in the right direction. The problem is that they do have self-propagating political machine of rotten monsters ruling over the country and then choosing like-minded rotten monsters to take their place.

Genocide would never be good. Breaking the status quo, eradicating the government together with all its entrapments and entrenchments (including the social ones like antifa and exclusively and extremely leftist academia circles) would provide all the same benefits with none of the drawbacks.

>>133478964
>spends 1,2% GDP on thier own army
>bitches about others

Dear kraut could you man the fuck up to 2% as NATO requires before opening your yapper ?

>>133472772

The EU literally wants to replace you

>>133478713
What are absolute amounts?

The NATO 2% guideline target has to be reached by 2024, not now. In absolute amounts France and Germany spend the same money.

>>133478790
>Why should a trade agreement have it's own army?
How is the EU a trade agreement. Read the Treaty of Rome of 1957, it says right there it is supposed to be a superstate which creates a united Europe.

>>133478079
it's not only not inevitable, it's impossible

once the world is niggered there will be no identifiable government

>>133464551
You can take over the continent with bullpup rifles and snazzy uniforms. It will be so aesthetic.

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>>133462897
>The EU military would not be commanded by the EU, but by the nation states in the EU, so your argument is moot.
Eurocucks actually believe this. If Marconi has balls he will have France leave the EU leaving the EU as a German state with nations wiling to be invaded by Germany.

>>133479046
NATO guildines of 2% are to be reached by 2024, not now. We agreed to this in 2014 in Wales.

Ireland spends 0.4% of its GDP on its military. How about it increases this spending to 1.2%?

Austria spends 0.8% of its GDP on its military. How about it increases this to 1.5%?

Then I am ok with Germany spending 2%.

>>133479057
And likely that's why you have New Middle-eastern Finn spouting the retarded bullshit he does.

>>133473110
The fate of the German people is to always be the reluctant heroes

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>>133478664
>only $1 billion behind China

IT'S TIME

HONG KONG GET THE FLAGS READY

>>133479286
But you are THE economical power of EU.
There are reports of your whole land fleet having huge issues (60% APC/IFV needing service of flat out broken).

You fucking spend more money on gibs to mudslimes than on army.

What I want is some resonable germans getting into power and putting end to mutti merkel.

With all due respect, Poland has 2x tanks and 4x SPGs more than you. I would be fucking ashamed if country with such military tradition is getting outguned by one of its eldest oponents.

Hell we are buing more Leos from you and modernizing them. GG krauts.

>>133479166
Dunno about aesthetics and taking over but majority-French army would likely at least increase heavily standards of MRE

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>>133470408
Brah that is just the US Europe command. Our military has divided the world into segments and we have command for bases or operations in "X" region. The Euro command would be for bases in Germany and logistical posts all over Europe. The EU army is just Merkel wanting to intimidate nations that want to leave, we don't have anything to do with it.

>>133478346
> I understand Greece will leave the EU by 2020

I hope that you are right on this one Hans.

>>133478547
>Well to be honest I consider California gene pool fucked up. Same goes for Germany if SHTF i would support full genocide on Germans.

They are literaly shiting up europe every 50-100 year

>Who fucked up Rome ? Germans.
Rome was devolving into degeneracy, the west had no military and were living for sex and food. Rome destroyed itself internally, this is a well known fact you meme-spouting retard. Also Rome kept fucking with Germans who just wanted to be left alone, your country was literally in the same boat at the time.
>Who plunged whole Europe into religion wars with protestant shit ? Germans
Luthers concerns were legitimate. Sometimes the Catholic church is wrong. For example the pope saying Poland must take in infinity niggers. Stop with your slave mindset.

>Who started two world wars and fucked up whole europe ? GERMANS
Nope. That was kicked off by a Serb and basically Germany was only involved because they had an obligation to their allies. Second world war was because Jews were destroying Germany and you were willing to plunge your western allies into war over a bit of land you had no right to, it was a small thing you spazzed out over.

>Who inveted Marxism ? Germans
Marx was not German he was a Jew.

>Who fucked up half of EU (and half of thier country) into 40+ years of commie ocupation ? Germans
Are you referring to the (((Soviet Union)))?

>Who is fucking up europe white race by importing shitskins ? Germans
also pretty much every single country except Poland, Hungary, and Czech.

>Germans have to go, they are epithome of failure.
Does all of your "knowledge" come from hastily made nonsensical MS paint comics, or have you ever had an original thought?

>>133462130
>Germany picking fights with the U.S
, U.K and Russia to an extent
>Her only nuclear ally, France, is run by a completely insane and unpredictable megalomaniac
What is their endgame?

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>>133479484
What in "we agreed to up the spending to 2% of GDP by 2024" don't you understand. We are actually increasing our military budget by 6-7% each year, thus slowly moving towards the 2%.

but again, how is it fair that Ireland spends just 0.4%, Austria 0.8%, Hungary 0.9%, Lithuania 0.9%, Spain 0.9% etc.

I think the EU should have an EU military and a common procument and military budget policy. Every single EU state should spend at least 1.5% of its GDP AND take on at least one speciality field required in modern warfare in which area they spend more. Spain should have a naval fleet, Ireland too, Austria a mountain contingent, France could be the nuclear power, Germany could be the airforce power etc.

>>133479783
>jews destroying germany
>marx was jew not germany

oh look retarded natsoc I bet you still worship 1488

disgusting

>>133462130
I think the EU should get an army

then we can finally go war with the EU as an entity

>>133479126
It's a trade agreement, it's not my fault your politicians added more clauses to it.

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>>133480354
Why would you go to war with the EU?

Last I checked, you caved in on all demands on day one of the negotiations. The EU wasn't even trying, you just fell over.

>>133462130
>"hurr durr EU army will protect the EU from those who might leave us"

Jean Claude go away, Belgium should have been annexed by Germany years ago so they could sterilize you stupid fucks

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>>133478664
>Source on that. France has 400,000 active soldiers?
Counting the whole army it's close. Not only soldiers. But overall it's bigger.

>What does nuclear power plants have to do with the military?
Nuclear power plants ? What about nuclear submarines ?

> Like in 1941?
Yeah exactly, the other way around though

> Then why do we spend the same?
I genuinely don't know, the German budget is even bigger than the French's. But same for UK, and french army is still rated stronger for some reasons. Budget is not everything.

Not saying the German army is irrelevant. It's just less strong overall. It's ranked as 9th when French's is 5th.
And I maintain that in case of WW, nuclear power will came in the game at some point. If it does, every country without it better have a huge ally, otherwise it's gonna be wiped.

>>133480354
>EU should have greater potential to screw us over and be also a military threat
I understand want for a glorious fight etc but it's retarded - not only you'd put yourself in worse situation, if it'd come down to military power, you'd likely get screwed over. I am not even talking about outright fighting - if EU would have an army and would be in relations horrible enough to consider using it against UK, then they'd simply would be able to block and isolate the isles. You'd be horribly, economically, socially screwed.

>>133479865
There is no such thing as a EU state, you stupid fucktard. The EU has escalated to proportions no one originally agreed with, and while most people seem too afraid to explain this to you, i'm not, since I remember you're really bad at winning wars. You are refering to sovereign nations as states and no one appreciates it, the UK being the only ones with the balls and juice to leave so far. But you're leading an "army" of disgruntled people, and it will iterally blow away in the wind.

>>133474428
This, the snek man defeats his own point instantly.

>>133480432
>It's a trade agreement, it's not my fault your politicians added more clauses to it.
It was a superstate treaty when it was set up in 1957 and it still is. Look at every single defintion of the EU, it always talks about a "supranational entity". A trade agreement isn't a supranational entity, a federation is.

>>133477886
Russian hacker text. If you copy it you would get a virus so be careful

>>133480627
>the UK being the only ones with the balls and juice to leave so far
You're kinda mistaken on this account. Membership in EU for most members isn't a matter of sufficient/insufficient "balls and juice" but profits. UK was losing severely on EU deal in comparison what it could do on its own so it left. Many countries would do the same if not the fact that EU if funneling cash into them - it's not a matter of fear or loyalty, it's a matter of it being profitable enough to stay for the time being.

That's partially why now EU is more turbulent than ever - changes in spending and shitloads of migrants limiting profits (as member countries are expected to house and support them out of their own pockets while also covering damage and losses inflicted by migrants) started to make people question whether it's worth staying in.

Same with most EU initiatives. Paris Accords? Turkey or somesuch now considers leaving it as well simply because - they practically outright stated it - there's little of a point now that US left and didn't agree to pay for their developments.

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>>133480520
>Counting the whole army it's close. Not only soldiers. But overall it's bigger.
Counting civilians. Dude, we got 80,000 non-combat civilians and contractors in Germany as well. Why should we count them?

Counting militia members and gendamerie/police. Why? In that case we get to 400,000 as well.

Again, we have the same budget levels. If you had double as many soldiers, your budget levels would have to be double too.

Don't bullshit around, come with actual facts.

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>>133480627
>There is no such thing as a EU state
Wud?

>>133481097
>>133476817 and following discussion.
You're not horribly weak but you're nowhere as strong as you think.

>>133462130
France will be part of the EU army.
France has nuclear capabilities.
>EU will be a nuclear power.
>EU will be a nuclear power.
>EU will be a nuclear power.
>EU will be a nuclear power.

>>133480080
This is an English board, you're just squatting in it. Learn to articulate a thought in my language or go back to betraying every single country you see.

>>133481329
How do you spell 'None of your goddamn business' in British?

>>133474763
Finnish meme quality 5/5. Only thing im proud of from this country. Globalist are sinking this country. Fuck EU.

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>>133480437
There's another edit of this somewhere but I can't find it

>>133481378
This is more of a kind of international board, stop being an elitist retard and reinforcing bad "ignorant megalomaniac" US stereotype, please.

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>>133481481
You Brits are literally the kid with the arms.

>>133481407

>sassing about the UK not having anything to do with the EU any more

>while speaking perfect English

Britain has ejaculated deep inside your culture already Franz, there's no going back, there's no wiping away that stain

>>133481754
I speak American, dude. Not sure what that "English" is you are brining up there.

>>133481649
Eh, he has a point. When you have dozens of countries, there has to be a consensus on a language everyone can understand. English is extremely easy and popular, so why not?

Oh I'm sorry, I meant to say MURICAN is extremely easy and popular.

>let's let a faceless nation-state have its own functioning army to use for whatever they seem right.
>Let's also make sure we don't have any way to overthrow this faceless nation-state or fight against it's army.
>What could possibly go wrong?!

It only answers to the commission it is not an EU army it is the commissions army

>>133481097
Just google army power ranking and get recent results.
This is what I found (among other things)
"Germany is one of the strongest economic forces in the world but the army’s condition seems to have deteriorated in the past few years.
Germany does not have an aircraft carrier and has relatively few submarines which lowered its ranking."

Look at what Brussels does without an army.

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>>133462130
>make an EU army
>the army consists of nations that haven't won a war in a hundred years

Jesus fucking Christ this would be hilarious.

>>133482096
Why should I care about someone's opinion?

I care about the actual stats. Are you disputing that the active soldiers levels of both France and Germany are at about 200k and that the budget levels are actually the same?

>>133481825
He'd have a point if he'd say English-speaking board - it's what the board agreed upon to be able to communicate. But going whole "a board belonging to English-speaking countries" as it's implied by bashing guy on the basis of his country ("you're just squatting in it") etc is retarded.

The nations pushing for an EU meme army are the nations without nuclear weapons or the means to actually defend themselves.

Of course they want an EU army, make others pay for it and die in it while you spend your defense budget on refugee centers.

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>>133462130
When I hear about an EU army I google search Dresden,hug my Chruchill pillow tight and wish he would come back alive to firebomb some more huns.

>>133482169
If the Germans try to take over the world again, which they will, it's sorta what they do,you faggots better not wait 3 years to join in, is all I'm saying.

>>133462130
People who support the EU are fucking cucks and should be disposed of

>>133482340
You sound prettier without a face, or head for that matter, right?

These fucking frenchies, man.

>>133482280
I believe he is and if you'll check the comparison I dropped, you may say he's wrong - because French apparently is somewhat more powerful overall, despite relatively lower spendings and differences in personnel. And we can assume that the statistics I've dropped is still favoring Germans, as they include simply tally of vehicles without taking into consideration their state which, as we learn ITT, is often way below what is required for the machine to be combat-ready.

>>133482480
You words make no sense Hans,were you hit in the back of the head by one of your new Germans?

>>133482280
This has been linked already :
http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.asp?form=form&country1=france&country2=germany&Submit=COMPARE

This is not opinion. This is fact.
I state that the German budget is bigger, and that the manpower (without the reserve, that's where the difference in number comes from) is close.
Budget and soldiers don't do everything though.
Soldiers are not everything.
Not sure if the equation 1 rafale = 1 soldier is correct.

>>133462897
1.Hahahaha eurocuck comparing eu to us or uk, which indeed are countries, eu is not, my dear blueyellow stared faggot.
2. Eurocuck - so why it is necessary to establish eu army if it will be comanded by nation state govt which already commands national defence forces? You full of shit shilling faggot.
3. One values >One currency> no borders> One army > federalisation and sick imperialistic ambitions of ultraweak EC leadership.

Fuck you eucuckshillfag.

>>133462130
None other than pedantic arguments about foreign troops on soil which would be worked out by revising the EU charters. NATO worked fine by letting the US station troops all the fuck over Europe during the cold war without people sperging about BOOTS ON ARE GROUND so I'm sure the EU could work it out.

>>133462130
Because I don't want frenchmen putting down demonstrations in poland or poles putting down demonstrations in france.
Maybe we shouldn't have armies of non-citizens.

>>133482990
Yet no one except germans seems even remotely interested in a EU superstate. It's almost like countries don't want to try and add inches to germany's dick even though they know it'll still be shorter than the US's.

>>133478079
How is it inevitable? Not like it hasn't been tried through imperialism say about 10,000 years or so, give or take. Why do you think they will succeed now? As another anon already stated, whole Earth inhabitet only with shitskins cant be governed, therefore, it can't be called NWO.

>>133478419
What about the nukes in California?

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I have a better idea. How about someone just nukes germany? I'm getting tired of that nation of cucks trying to ruin what used to be a great continent.

>>133483728
Dammit, if arnold was still the governor that would have been a great joke...goddammit

Sovereignty.

>>133463155
fucking britbong still butthurt from losing the 100 years war and for being considered a ridiculously incompetent army throughout the centuries. They've never even faught a quarter of the battles fought by French and Germans, both nations with outstanding military results.

>>133483823
Everyone thinks it, but you know it can't be done...

Europe have tried many times to have it's own army in the last 50 years
It didn't work.
Every single time

>>133483823
Let's have germany ruin europe a third time except this time. We'll be stealing THEIR bikes

>>133483823
Nukes, just think about fallof.

And hell you guys have experience in fire bombing (dresden for example). So start with that.

>>133462130
they all hate each other. it'll never work. europe is doomed to a nuclear wasteland. lazy fuckers.

>>133480847
Even if it was what you claim (and that is still an if), such a political organization doesn't have a need for an army. It's as if the united nations had it's own army. Not even the warsaw pact hat it's own dedicated army.

ITT people who care about Europe vs. Nationalist LARPers who would rather at least watch their Neighbouring countries burn before being destroyed themselves.

>>133484482
Unlike the unity that is the US, West Coast and East Coast rappers coexisting, midwesterners loving new york, southerners loving the north, texas liking...anyone, and so on. You are truly the pinnacle of harmony US

>>133484533
>UN has no Army

Even they have the Bluehelmets you idiot, neck yourself

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>>133462130
>inb4 the biggest reason the EU should not have an army.
>I have deemed this a non-argument, and hence anyone who brings it up shall not be listened to.
Well, OP, looks like you win this round. But I am much cleverer than you, and I choose NOT to abide by your framework.

EU should NOT have their army because they are a bunch of anti-white, 1984 thought-police, who will use the army to march into smaller states and kill all dissenters.

You are a massive faggot.

>>133484747
Shit bait, kill yourself pole/kraut/croatian hiding behind poorman's proxy

ps. sage

>>133462130
>soldier of any nation dies
>EU flag on his grave
>died for the EU
>served the EU
>EU
>E
>U

Insulting everyone by not mentioning their nationality.

>>133477151
Fucking kek at this post
Stay mad, mongol

>>133484830
you dumb ass. everyone here in the us is passionate about where they live, it's part of being american. that's why our military is great, and why a european military wont work. too many different languages, too many different cultures, different militaries, different politics. I'm surprised the european union is lasting this long but looks like it wont last much longer lololol. face it, you guys are shit and being friendly neighbors.

>>133484747
That's what defensive pacts are for you stupid bastard.

We joined WW1 because the autistic Germs invaded Belgium and we joined WW2 because, you guessed it, the Germs invaded Poland.

Believe it or not, you can actually fight against a common enemy without being part of a single giant army.

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>>133466952
>east prussia

>>133462457
You're a retard for thinking rednecks would do anything but celebrate at California leaving the union

>>133462130
>inb4 uhhhh uhhhh, the oppressive EU army will march into smaller states and kill all dissenters!

You joke, but it will be used to crush dissent from countries like Hungary, Poland.

>>133485173
>everyone here in the us is passionate about where they live

I actually agree with that, I was just provoking you

>that's why our military is great

you military is, and this i say with honesty, pathetic. you got the nukes. so you're the best. cause you got the nukes. anything not involving the nukes...you're kind of laughable.

>too many different languages, too many different cultures, different militaries, different politics

Agreed. Now can you please explain that to furher merkel? cause you got them nukes?

>>133485201
>get guaranteed by Britain
>they start catastrophic wars that consume 60 million europeans and leave you to be raped in the ass forever

>>133485201
The EU isn't even cohesive about defending its borders, it would never be able to organize an actual military defence against other continents with "pacts". In the same war you mentioned Italy backstabbed germany even though they had an Alliance, so what exactly is your point?

The only thing that would change if we had an EU army would be armed ready forces able to support any EU country with no Bias and having a overall better command structure compared to each nation trying to scramble their armies or even deciding to help a EU country in the first place.

Hell, we could streamline funds and save Billions of Euros.

As if some of those Nordic Fucks would if the south EU gets invaded as long as they can chill, and vice versa. Its about dependence and not letting US and Russian degeneracy take over the continent.

>>133462897
The EU is a state, but not a country. It is a super state. So, while you are right, it's not what was sold to it's members in the first place.

>>133485671
>declare yourself neutral
>Germans invade and try to exterminate you anyway

>>133485808
Its not you autistic fuck, how about you actually read the EU history ranging from the ECSC to the fucking Lissabon Contracts and quickly kill yourself afterwards.

>>133462130
>EU military
So THAT is where you plan to put all the muslim men you've been importing. Its a good idea if you plan to shoot ethnic europeans in the future.

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>I'm here to kick your ass (European style)

>>133462457
>HAH if commiefornia tries to leave we'll just annex it back again!
>Redneck retards have no ideological consistancy.
u wot m8 they would celebrate if commiefornia left

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>>133486154

>>133462130
>Any serious arguments against an EU military?

Yeah. It's a tool of those who are trying to build a world government who would kill 90% of humanity. Pretty solid reason.

>>133462897
um no, in the united states we elect our congress members.

those who make the laws in the EU are not elected. are you really trying to tell me that the EC is elected?

>>133462130

>correction

Should the Krauts rearm themselves under the guise of a "pseudo-Federal" army?

Answer is no. Fuck you!

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>>133473539

>>133462130
You're not getting an army. You dumb fucks. We will fight you again

>>133463883
are you retarted?

the EU does not have a head of state

it does not have taxation rights

it tries to have a foreign policy but never works because it's always contradicted by the actual nation members

trade policy is the same as foreign

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>>133481649
>Attacking grammar instead of the argument
Pathetic

>>133486056
Oh look at that, I happen to have read them. But I forgot something...what is it...ah, it's the part where one EU member can use its economic influence to sway the politics of another EU member, as Germany repeatedly tries to do...dammit, where is that section? I forgot about it, can you help me out?

>>133478237
>EU should be or rather used to be economical alliance to counter economic strenght of US and China (EWG rember that)

(you)
I'm not sure what kind of fictional alternate universe you are talking about but in our timeline the ECSC (the first iteration of what would become the EU) was created with more in mind then just economic cooperation. From its inception the European project was about ever closer political union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuman_Declaration

>>133485897
Not sure what country you're talking about.
If Belgium
>Germans exterminating Belgians
If Poland
>Implying neutrality is possible when a country has territorial cause for war

>>133470174
fucking burger the entire EC is not elected, they ignore all referendums that go against what they want.

>>133486489
The army is happening. Don't like it, but I can't atop it

>>133462130
EU can have its military when NK has nukes and a sub orbital ion cannon.

>>133478664
>china same budget as us
they must have some utterly shit military if they are spending the same as a country 400 times the size

>>133486785
>they ignore all referendums that go against what they want.
So Brexit doesn't count? I'd also like to hear which referendums you are specifically referring to.

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hahaha fuck no

fuck these yurotrash kike whores trying to shaft me

>>133477047
ya, but don't forget that DE economy&industry is able to pump military equipment fast. In 1920s' their army was abysmally underequipped compared to UK or FR, and morale was low af. And they managed to change it around in about 15 years, while being under international scrutiny and prohibitive treaties, which are not a problem for them today

>>133486663
>anything a country does has to be set by its framework and founding ideas

You have an interesting thought process, might wanna get checked for autism though.

>>133486785
>EC is not elected
>Literally consists of the elected head of states of its member states.

?

>>133463883
It has no legitimacy, every time a referendum is held they lose

>>133487052
They ignored us at least twice. The referendum on the european constitution and last year the association agreement with ukraine. Eu is not democratic

>>133462130
Do we really need another United States

>>133487182
Your own Country voted no against the referendum, so good job blaming the EU.

>>133463727
Savage but true..

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>>133487052
how about the Irish referendum on the EU constitution that was canceled after the French voted no and the Dutch voted no?

oh wait, they just made a "treaty" and ignored the referendums

and the recent Greek referendum?

and I'll believe Brexit when it actually fucking happens. The UK is still in the EU.

>>133487182
It says it is though, so that's okay.

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>>133487052
dumb kraut

>>133487182
Well the European constitution never came did it? I'll concede your second example though. How exactly did they push it through?

>>133487401
You mean the ukraine thing? The people voted against it but our ""PM"" still went through with it to further the eu.
Also this>>133487490

>>133467275
>No.
>There will be no chain of command
yes there will be lol. That's a given unless the military wants to be completely inoperable with bitchy EU politics happening at every avenue

Just stop posting, child, and use your brain for a quarter of a microsecond

>>133462130
They already do. NATO.

>>133487552
>>133487586
The eu constitution was changed into the lisbon treaty (basically the same thing) and pushed through without referendums

>>133487586
not see here>>133487453

I mean the actual fucking EU constitution which was noted against by France and Netherlands so they canceled all remaining referendums

there are countless other examples as well including the Ukraine one you mention

>>133462130
no it should not, fuck off with our stupid idea, die already you piss me off globalist scum

>>133487657
Yeah but Germans don't have complete control of that so they want their own.

>>133470174
You do understand that the Parliament is created out of blocs of elected parties who then vote for representatives themselves, without the consent of the people, for nigh every single other office, right? No, of course you don't, that would be silly...

>>133487552
damn you germans really are OCD brainwashed cucks!

>>133487677
this netherlander knows exactly what's up

>>133487453
It got canceled by Ireland itself and they could have made a referendum like many other countries did even after france and the netherlands.

>>133487586
No, I mean your own example of the EU Costitution referendum. Netherlands voted against it but you still take the easy route and blame the EU for it.

>>133487742
They did not cancel all remaining referendums. A lot of countries held their referendums while others simply did not go through with them because of national politics.

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>>133462130

It goes against the neutrality of several member states.

My country isn't neutral but is non-belligerent. Any use of our troops in the EU military would be subject to a referendum, any conflicted started in the name of the EU would mark our nation a potential target. This would be unacceptable and we would leave.

Might not be a big deal to have our small nation leave but it would royally fuck the Eurozone in the arse if we do.

Anyway EU army is meme tier, the EU will be gone by 2030.

>>133487742
Yeah it bothers me quite a bit when they start doing referendums once one country votes against it they cancel all other referendums. Ofcourse if all those would vote yes it wouldn't matter but i want to see the results. How about doing all the referendums on one day and seeing them get btfo

>>133487875
Yeah we voted against the constitution because we don't want a european constitution. We just want a dutch contitution but we still got the lisbon treaty

>>133484839
Those are regular troops provided by member nations having literally a blue helmet, they are not a permanent army maintained by the un.
> eu flaggot
Uhm no sweetie you should kys.

God I'm glad we're leaving this shitshow

>>133476457
You are the enemy. This is a 4th Reich-Stasi mix.

>>133462130
Maybe if they enter a NATO like agreement or decide to give up their sovereignty to form the United States of Europe. Even then there is going to be a logistic nightmare.

Not some trade deal that some how has a 7 branches that act as a government that only elects the majority of its leadership by wealthy bankers, private wealthy individuals, and corporation owners voting the leadership in.

>>133488173
You should be. And you're actually in a fairly good position, germany isn't as scary to negotiate against once you realise they're all germans.

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>>133487956
yeah, this thread is sad

just look at the idiot Germans like this one here >>133487875

does not realize that not even close to half of the planned referendums on the consitituion was held, actually beliefs the Irish and others cancelled them willingly

>>133462130
No those are the un army
>Blue berae/ peacekeeper
>They are pedophiles
>Help child sex trafficking
>Don't keep the peace
>Do more damage then help

>>133477983
>implying they werent the newest model of attack brooms, currently illegal to even own to the public

>>133462130
Kill yourself you degenerate fuck

>>133487453
>how about the Irish referendum on the EU constitution that was canceled after the French voted no and the Dutch voted no?
>oh wait, they just made a "treaty" and ignored the referendums
constitution never came and the Lisbon treaty didn't turn the EU into a sovereign body, so i don't see the problem
>and the recent Greek referendum?
I take it that you're referring to the referendum where the Greeks rejected the EU-Deal? The Deal was negotiated between Greece and the other member nations who's governments are only answerable to their own peoples.

Just ask the people of Haiti how much they help they hide there children and run when they arrive

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yuropeans are bandits and criminals and should be exterminated
yurope is a cancer


is islam is the answer


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgf0nf5xbsE&ytbChannel=Musilman1311

>>133487866
care to elaborate?

>>133475189
We're just going to nuke you from orbit this time.

>>133487866
Thanks François, good luck with Macaroni. This thread is slipping down to page 10

>>133488981
>is islam is the answer

um, I'm gonna say no. islam is never the answer to anything in any situation.

am i right?

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Why you guys got Mexicans in your army britbong?

>>133489221
Islam is only the answer if the question is: what should we remove from earth