Heaven and Hell can't exist

>>133432484
This fundamentally misunderstands what heaven and hell are. It relies on a secular definition of heaven of being the thing someone desires most.

That is not what heaven is.

>>133432484
B-B-But muh kike on a stick!

>>133432621
What is heaven and what is hell?

Wishing it so does not make it so.

You dont get to Heaven by living a moral life. You only enter Heaven by believing on Christ who died for your sins. That is the only way. Your good works are only further rewarded in Heaven.

Read the Bible or don't make shit up.

>>133432484
your post is based upon the notions of True and False, which presuppose an objective morality, and therefore God.
See you in church next Sunday

>>133432484
Heaven is eternity in the love and warmth of God.

Hell is eternal existence in the cold, lonely, and painful existence without God.

It has nothing to do with what you 'want' but rather just being with or without the divinity of our Lord and Savior. Stupid atheists can't even comprehend the message, but as godless heathens get to experience hell by default.

>>133432748
Heaven is the eternal throne room of God.

Hell is the separation of God caused by sin.

There's nothing scriptural saying that a saved person in heaven cannot step out and wander the new Earth and be in the presence of their unsaved loved ones.

>>133433107
Is it possible to repent in this life and reconnect with God? If so, why can't it be done in the next?

>>133432484
define heaven and hell dude... If heaven is a happy place designed for you, you will have whatever you desire, thats include a version of your love one.
If heaven is just a place with people who didnt sin... well, is just a fucking boring place and that is hell to me.

Fuck you.

>>133432857
Yeah, that's the place if you should go if you don't want made up bullshit
The bible

>>133433594
Once again, you dont get to make up what you want heaven to be. It already exists and you only have the choice of if you are going there or not (by accepting christ as savior for your transgressions against Gods Law -ie sin). Heaven is mot a state of mind, nor is hell. They are literal places of existence already set up by God. He made them, therefore his rules. Same as here on Earth. His creation, his rules.

>>133433942
Whats made up in it? If you are so well versed (which you ought to be to declare it made up), please provide me with evidence youve read even one chapter of Gods inspired word. Otherwise you are only making up what you think heaven ought to be when that isnt the way it works

>>133434085
OK, you are talking about the christian heaven.

Well... you should started with that when you made the thread.

I dont give a fuck about this argument cos i dont believe in that kind of stuff, is a nonsense. I do believe in god and shit, but the idea of a place for eternity is not logic for me.

>>133433256
Because this life is your only chance to find divinity and accept the grace of God. If you squandered your chances for forgiveness during the gift from God that is existence then you get punished for eternity.

Stop asking stupid questions cuck

>>133434334
Noah's ark is bullshit
Genesis as well for that matter
There, it's settled, you can get bent now

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>>133432484
Due to there being 10 measurable dimensions, saying "Heaven and Hell doesn't exist" makes Heaven and Hell exist. By saying Heaven and Hell exists, Heaven and Hell don't exist. By saying nothing Heaven and Hell both exist and not exist. By trying to think about it makes a similar branch where Heaven and Hell both exist and don't exist at the same time.

What really matters is how your actions right now in the current present effect the world around you, and if you actively and knowingly step on cracks, and how many times you've done that.

If you are asking if there is a Heaven above Heavens and a Hell beneath Hells, I don't know; probably.

>>133434606
I didnt make the thread. I made a post. There only is one heaven. One absolute truth. There can only be one.

If you dont believe in it, than tell me, what is the harm in believing in it? If i am right, and there is a heaven, than I go to heaven. If I am wrong, and there is no Heaven, nothing is lost.

Whereas if what you believe is wrong and there is a heaven, you would go to Hell for not accepting Christ's free gift of salvation. But if there is no heaven, than there is nothing. So why should we care at all. Why should any of us live lives unselfishly?

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>>133435343
You just created a timeline where Heaven existed up to the point until you made your post and then ceased to exist.

Good job.

>>133435086
Clearly havent read the Genesis account of the flood and Noahs ark. Saying it didnt happen doesnt make it so. You provide no evidence of why these historical events did not happen.

And yet there is literally thousands of physical pieces of evidence for a world-wide flood all around us geographically and with fossilization of animals, fish, and vegetation. Fossils are only made by submersion in water so that minerals can replace the living being's cells and fossilize it. Youve been deceived into thinking it takes millions of years for this process to occur when it can be done in weeks or days depending on circumstances.

Many scientific books written on the subject.

>>133435822
No? I didnt?

>>133435343
pacals wager neglects that the option isn't binary. What if getting your wife to suck the 3rd posters dick is how you get in. What if Islam is correct. What about esoteric Hitlerism?

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>>133435908
Saying that it did just created another timeline where that it didn't happen.

Please stop saying things because you are directly creating alternate timelines that suck for other people.
>>133436050
10 measurable dimensions mate;
1. Point 2. Plane 3. Vector 4. Time 5. Variance 6. Resonance 7. Advanced Variance 8. Advanced Resonance 9. Theoretical Variance 10. Theoretical Resonance.

By saying something like "The sky is blue", you inadvertingly created a timeline where "The sky is green and a timeline where the sky was blue, until that exact moment when you said that the sky was blue."

Also, by not directly stating that "the sky is blue" creates a timeline where you did say "the sky is blue." So you are kind of fucked when it comes to anything you say and do or don't say or do.

But don't directly willingly create alternate timelines that suck balls.

>>133435908
Mind = blown
At last I see
Thanks you for showing me the way

>>133436079
If there is a God, and a Heaven, why wouldhe make it unknowable as to how to attain entrance to Heaven. By some random act of sucking dick? Thats stupid and illogical.

Islam and Judaism are wrong for many reasons. The Koran is full of contradictions which can't be true as Gods law is perfect and can not contradict itself.

Judaism is wrong because they reject that Christ has already come when Jesus clearly fulfilled every last prophecy about the Savior hundreds of yimes over.

If you have no knowledge of what the Bible says, none of this is going to help you in understanding this

>>133436459
Dimensions have nothing to do with the afterlife, and there is no way you can prove your treasured alternate realities exist. Good luck

>>133432484
Your definition of Heaven and Hell do not satisfy the biblical notions of what they are. Fuck off

>>133432484
you won't need a waifu in heaven. waifus are for meatbags with sexual desires only

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>>133436982
>there is no way your treasured alternate realities exist.

Hold my beer senpai.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf2CxZPl7KI

>>133437198
Scientific theory is still theory. Tell me how to measure the alternate reality you claim exists everytime we make a new decision.

>>133432484
that's not what the kingdom of God is you mong. unity with God means discarding worldly things. heaven is not a literal life after life

atheists have a child-like conception of theology

>>133433256
The early church fathers and much of the Orthodox Church believe that those in Sheol right now can be saved until the judgement. It is not necessarily true they can't be saved even after the judgement, all things are possible with God, but it is not so clear if He will allow it, that is much less likely. So no, not in Hell, but it is possible in the next life.

>>133437606
I thought heaven was where you strummed harps in the clouds with angels. Unlike degenerate muslim heaven where you get virgins and little boys.

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>>133437402
Mostly because of how the branches work.

Think of it as "Do route A, Do route B, or do Nothing."
By doing route A, you further down a chain of A titled events, leading to Aa and Ab. Also by doing Route A, you don't go down route B, meaning you miss out on events Ba and Bb. Events Ba and Bb still exist regardless of taking route A. By choosing not to take a route, you miss out on events Aa Ab, Ba and Bb. However, these events still exist.

When you take or don't take a route, there exists ramifications of those actions, and ramifications of actions not taken; in a simplistic viewpoint "I took my car to work and got to work on time." In this you didn't choose "I took the bus to work and got to work a little late." By taking the car, you missed out on the bus, and meeting the love of your life. Likewise, by taking the bus you missed out on a promotion that lead you to finding the love of your life.

Essentially, the measurable means to alternate realities is the plain fact that "They simply exist, for if they didn't neither would we."

It's about accepting everything as a possibility, any possible little thing.

If you want an actual mathematical formula, I would recommend the Julian rate for Variance and the Gailian rate for Resonance.

The Julian rate is essentially a rate of a multiplicity over Planck Time that works best in a self collapsing model (set time limit; t-->x function equals 0) The Gailian rate is a bit more complicated as it is a multiplicity over its inverse time frame, and really can't be solved in the modern age unless the multiplicity is very small. For 7th+ dimensions, you just insert previous rate on top of one another until you get to the 10th, where everything exists as a constant "Variable that allows for all variables to exist." I'd say Negative Infinity to Positive Infinity, but I hate the term Infinity, so I'll just call it "X" or "Existence." You can call it "God" if you like.

>>133438834
I understand the theory. Once again you fail to show me how I can measure something which I cannot experience or see.

There is a difference between observational science which has experiments that are repeatable and measurable, and theoretical science which is based on philosophy and pure math.

Math can be manipulated to provide any kind of result you want. Doesnt necessarily provide what we see in the real world.

There is no physical, concrete evidence for your alternate branching realities that I can MEASURE

>>133439713
Aye, but by saying "I can't." You already have. Just in another timeline.

>>133432484
Gospel of mary, read it nigger

>>133432484
>Be Kikeveh's slave or get tortured forever
Hmmmm

>>133439876
I cant take 10mil in gold coin from another timeline and find a way to get it to me in this timeline.

>>133432484
i mean that logic is retarded, but i agree with the statement. death is the end of our life here.

>>133432484
you dont go to heaven for having a moral life you silly goose

>>133432484
i mean, even biblically, heaven and hell have nothing to do with Love or "who you wanna live forever with" it's about salvation. honestly your argument is looking more and more retarded the more i read it, but nevertheless -- DEATH is the end. accept that redpill, eternallifebros

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>>133440207
Not with that attitude you won't.

There is something called "Navigation of the timelines" there are certain instances where the timeline branches become super super thin where it doesn't matter what choice you made to eventually reach that point. It is entirely possible to navigate a certain goal to become super thin to another timeline, but it all really depends on how much you want it, and how much effort you are going to put into making the timelines aetherial thin to either "pull" or "get pulled into."

If you say "I can't." Then another timeline will take advantage of that, has already, and will eventually lead to that actually happening. If you say "I can" then you are part of the timeline where you'll eventually find what you are looking for."

If you are asking about "Why isn't this the timeline where10mil in coin just drops on my lap?"
Mostly because this timeline is self regulating, and fixes its problems that lead to fundamental errors.

You could navigate the timeline to make that happen, but you'd need to rip a hole beyond space time for a very specific place in an alternative timeline for that to happen.

Its a very messy game to be honest, timeline arise and die in rates you can't even begin to imagine, so you really have to sit down and think "Do I really want that?"

Most times, you don't even have to make a decision, because its already been made. And thus the world continues to chug along at a moderately normal pace, with a few oddities popping up here and there that are either corrected or fully absorbed.

Be happy that this is the timeline where the fundamental forces that keep our universe intact stay as they are for the next several trillion years, instead of the timeline where I just said and the universe fell apart due to me saying it.

>>133436785
ok so pascals wager is flawed and you're back to square one trying to prove your religion

>>133441276
What the hell is going on in the photo?

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>>133442018
Official 4chan Moderator Meeting.

>>133434925
what if you die as a child? or any of our ancestors before JC came?

There is no heaven/hell, only 3 kingdoms

1 Corinthians 15:40-42 KJV, look it up

>>133441848
My faith (not religion) has nothing to do with a philosophers apologetic illustration.

There can be no third option. There is a Heaven, or there isn't. What would a third option even be?

>>133437198
STOP
can someone explain the jump from 3d to 4d? Is 4D just a bunch of universes next to each other?

>>133442314
Those verses say nothing about Heaven and hell not existing.

There are three Heavens (places above the Earth realm) however- the sky, space, and God's kingdom.

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>>133433107
LAME
A
M
E

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>>133432484

Heaven is about the presence of God. Those who are united with Christ desire this above all things. Being in the presence of God is greater than any relationship any human being can have with another, which is why there is no marriage in heaven, see Matthew 22:30 "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."

Think about it, though, what sort of afterlife would be worth living if it wasn't in the presence of a perfect God? What sort of worldly afterlife could be worth living a hundred trillion years in?

>>133442244
The bible states that those who die as children are granted access to Heaven not because they are without sin, but because they cannot be held accountable for their sin.

This is only true until they understand the concept that they have sinned, and that they need a savior. Once they understand this, they must make a choice. God is the final Judge of who goes to Heaven or not.

Before Christ, it was still the same as it was after Christ. If you believed that you cannot save yourself from your own sins and actions, that you needed someone else (ie God) to do it for you, than you were saved.

>>133432484
Has nothing to do with living a moral life.

Repent =/= turn from sin. Salvation by morals/good doing/turning from sin/works/etc in various forms is held by catholicism, bhi, sda, Hebrew roots, Calvinism, arminianism, gnosticism, jw, Mormonism, (Islam if you consider Isa as an offshoot), Pentecostalism, orthodox etc etc.

Salvation is simply repenting (changing the mind) from unbelief to belief that Jesus died and rose once and for all for the remission of sin. In essence just accept Jesus' salvation and never perish no matter what.

Take it or leave it. You do you.

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>>133443267
>Being in the presence of God is greater than any relationship any human being can have with another
A says otherwise Christfag

Friendly reminder that all the cool people are in Hell

>>133432484
I'm atheist and I see this doesn't make any sense. You are a dumb.

>>133433256
if you fully comprehend the situation why would you wait?

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>>133442949
The 4th Dimension is time.
Imagine taking a shutter photograph of each Planck Time of everything in the Universe, then lining them up one by one next to each other. The line of shuttered photographs would be seen as the 4th dimension, or essentially "One giant line of events that are happening, have happened or have yet to happen" like a big ol' blob snake.

Now imagine branches from that big ol' blob snake and the empty spaces from where those branches from the big ol' blob snake are. Sometimes branches from this big ol' blob snake directly touch branches of other big ol' blob snakes, sometimes the branches touch the spaces between the branches of other big ol' blob snakes.

It's really fun to think about, but no real practical use can come out of it in the current age mostly due to the technology constraint. Maybe in 40-50 years Mankind will be able to utilize port holes in times to view its own timeline.

>>133443632
The love of God should transcend all Earthly relationships. A hard teaching of Christ is in Luke 14:26: "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

While Jesus also said to love your neighbor and to honor your mother and father, etc., the point still stands. The love of God must be higher than any other.

>>133436459
so. You're saying something was literally created by someone speaking it into existence?

sounds familiar....

>>133441276
maximum john titor

>>133442080
It all makes sense now!

>>133443991
Some one gets it!

Take a look at the word Universe

Uni- Singular, one

Verse- a sentence or statement.

One single spoken verse and all of creation was manifest. the universe. love etymology

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>>133443991
Oh I've haven't claimed to be anti God, nor can I really call myself anti religious.

I believe all things are part of a living variable, on a scale greater than we can imagine or calculate at the current time. Whether that variable is sentient/good/evil doesn't really matter to me, I just hate the idea that people are willing to kill for such a black and white picture of thinking and not think about a greater Unity that spans beyond unities.

Does Heaven as a location exist? Who knows?
Does Hell as a location exist? Who knows?
Does Reality exist? Yes!
If Reality exists, then all possibilities within it exist as well, so Does Heaven exist as a location? Probably! Does Hell as a location exist? Probably!
>>133444224
:3c
>>133444468
Nah nah man, think bigger. One is All, All is One. Everything is God, God is everything. Our Universe is part of One All, and All One is comprised from multiple Universes.

Also its bed time for me.

Cheers everyone!

>>133444468
universe (n.) Look up universe at Dictionary.com
1580s, "the whole world, cosmos, the totality of existing things," from Old French univers (12c.), from Latin universum "all things, everybody, all people, the whole world," noun use of neuter of adjective universus "all together, all in one, whole, entire, relating to all," literally "turned into one," from unus "one" (from PIE root *oi-no- "one, unique") + versus, past participle of vertere "to turn, turn back, be turned; convert, transform, translate; be changed" (from PIE root *wer- (2) "to turn, bend").

Hell is where the atheists go. I know this because every time an atheist opens their mouth I feel like I'm in hell.

>>133444838
the problem is that you believe in man made philosophies rather than God's word.

this will be your downfall.

There is only one reality man, sorry to burst your sci-fi wishes

>>133444996
That's what toothpaste is for. I recommend fluoride free for a cleaner brain.

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so if the rapture ever does come, what are the odds it's a false flag

You part at death

ARE YOU ALL RETARDED

>>133432484
OMG HOW THE FUCK WILL THEY EVER RECOVER

FEDORA: 20,000,000

RELIGIONKEKS: -100

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>>133432484
Literally go read Dante's Inferno. It'll show you how wrong you are.

He addresses this point specifically. It's like the final redpill on hell.

>All the souls in hell WANT to be there. They've literally chosen their sin over God. Heaven for them IS hell.

In Christian theology, God always gives us what we want. We want his grace, he gives it to us. We want sin, he lets us have it. It's called free will, faggots. And God will never take it away from us.

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>>133445013
Not really a man made philosophy, but okay.

Also don't throw rocks in glass houses, the word of God, (assuming you are Abrahamic) has been diluted due to the corruption of Man.

What exists now is nothing more than man made philosophies instead of actual recordings of historical events involving a non terrestial being that served and was worshipped by a nomadic desert tribe.

Not that I'm mad at your own beliefs, because like I said, "Reality allows for all possibilities to exist." However, don't just think that is the only reality and the only truth.

God exists on a plane higher than human understanding, it is above and beyond its Man's corrupted interpretation of YWHW.

>>133445466
The anti-christ will be a false flag of sorts himself. He will deceive those who think the Christ has not come yet and is himself (or that this is his second coming). But those who understand and already believe will not be deceived.

The rapture itself will not be a false flag. It is the catching away of the saints (believers). So its kind of hard to fake

>>133445813
it is man made. who else came up with it but man

Gods word is inspired (rather than expired). This means it is living and still valid, and not corrupted.

inspired literally means breathed into. you expire when you breath out or die.

God's word is complete and perfect. Find one contradiction or corruption and I will show you how it is not a corruption.

There has to be one absolute truth. If there wasn't, then how can we have morals. Who is to say that child rapists can't have their own fucked up reality where it is actually ok by your retarded belief system of (all possibilities exist maaaaan). its ludicrous.

our history and all events only happened one way. Even if we try to hide or obscure our past and deceive others with invented or deleted histories, it still only occurred one way. This is absolute truth.

>>133445466
The rapture is not Biblical.

>>133447085
Rapture is Latin for caught up. It is in the Bible.

>>133446038
The Antichrist isn't a person. It's a spirit. The tribulation and the beast and all of that stuff is prophecy of the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. It's about Rome, not some fictional creature that you tell your kids at night to make them stay in bed.

>>133447085
The word rapture is not used, that is correct. But it is an actual event where believers are caught up into the sky to be with christ.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 KJV

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

it is very biblical if you are a fundamentalist

>>133432484

False ...if you are going to heaven you should not be with someone who goes to hell to start with

>>133447287

You can be antichrist (such as a jew) simply by rejecting christ, yes. So you are correct that it is the spirit or action of being anti christ.

But Revelation does call for an actual being or person to be THE anti-christ. Read REV 13 kjv

>>133432484

>Heaven for A would be to spend eternity with B

That's not how it works

>>133447494
I don't care if the word itself is or isn't in the Bible. The word "Trinity" isn't in the Bible either.

The idea of a secret rapture didn't even appear on the scene until the 1800's. It's a false doctrine. It's peripheral so people who believe it can be wrong and still be saved but it's wrong. Simple hermenutics will keep you from exegeting what you want to hear into the text.

>>133447737
That was about one of the Caesars. Not the Devil.

>subjective experiences refute an objective ultimate state

Heaven is to be with God. Nothing else. If "A" is "in love" with "B" but "B" goes to hell and "A" in fact goes to Heaven, it does not matter in the least, because Heaven is infinitely greater than his subjective temporal perception of love for "B."

The mercy of Christ's sacrifice on the cross is given to the elect of God.

If you believe that Christ died for you you can have assurance that you are elected to go to heaven.

At the end of the day Christ chooses whom he will and will not impart sin.

This is a judgement call of Christ.

And I would have no one better to make that call.

So we can have hope for the Muslim woman who dies that Christ through his sacrifice will not impart sin upon her.

While she is not guaranteed heaven like a believer we can still hope.

If God chooses to send her to hell we can rest in the assurance that God makes no wrong moves.

>>133448067

>john 3:5 - unless you are born again of water and the spirit you CANNOT enter the kingdom of heaven

You can't go to heaven unless you are baptized. There is actually no hope for anybody from false religions.

>>133447816
its not a secret rapture. There is no secret. its right there in the verse I quoted for you.

Lemme guess, you are catholic.

>>133448067

Also Hell is eternal fire of sinners burning before the glory of God. Not separation from God.

>>133447287
Actually it is. It says that anyone that denies the father and son is antichrist. There are many antichrists. And the antichrist shall come. That's what the scriptures say. Also. People have spirits.

>>133448257
I'm a Calvinist.

>>133447932

someone loves pain thus a eternal torture in hell is actualy heaven .. This is why i lean most on everlasting destruction as punishment

>>133448482
But it was about one of the Roman Emperors. I think Nero.

>>133448229
Immediate context shows he is talking about physical and spiritual birth. Born of water - physical first birth.

>>133448516
wonderful. I hope you truly are a brother in Christ, and if you are, I hope you will take the time to read the truth.

http://www.wholesomewords.org/etexts/freeman/pfcalvin.html

>>133448229

All who christ accepts in heaven are by default born again.

>>133448770
Hi, just saw that you seem to have a lot of answer and I just have a quick question, how do you reconcile racism with christianity?

>>133448770
>wonderful.
>calvinist

Try again

>>133448516
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdCD-w_q3EQ

>>133448516
You should step up to free grace. Calvinism is just the controlled oppoision against arminianism. Arminianism/Calvinism is just another higelian dialect. Calvinism is more biblical holding to Perseverance of the saints, but true eternal security doesn't require "perseverance".

>>133448857

Those who can go to heaven are those who accept Christ in THIS LIFE.

I lean CHRISTIAN universalist

>For in Adam all die
>But through Christ all are saved

What did God mean by this? Did God not mean all people when he said all? Even though everyone knows sin is inherited from Adam, all of humanity has it, so if Christ saves all, what is meant by all?

>>133448647
Nero comes from speculations about revelation. The term "Antichrist" isn't really used that prophetically and is found in 1 John. The letter is about fellowship. So it's not a prophetic writing. It just says that antichrist shall come, but it also says there are now many antichrists. And defines it as one who denies the father and the son. Also the Greek suffix anti- means "in place of". The same meaning as "Vicar". The Vicar of Christ is "in place of christ". The antichrist is "in place of Christ."

>>133449040
There is no such thing as different races. We are all descendants of one man, Adam, and of one race (human).

There are of course many nationalities today, and we have all segmented ourselves into different expressions of genes, but we can all still intermarry and successfully procreate.

However, believers, or Christians, should only marry saved people, not non-christians. This has nothing to do with race, only spiritual ideology and a command from God. It was the same for the Israelites.

>>133449094
if you read my linked article, it refutes calvinism. the "wonderful" is somewhat sarcastic.

>>133448770
I didn't read the whole thing. I skimmed it and saw a lot of the same old arguments that have been brought up since forever ago.
>>133449096
He has no credibility and he's a hack. James White mopped the floor with him. KJV only-ism is idolatry.
>>133449115
I've heard of Free Grace and I reject it in its entirety.

>>133449654
James white also defends Islam. Stay cucked

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>>133432484
>implying heaven is in sort of consciousness pertaining to life on this planet.

does the river care if a cup of water has been removed?

>>133449749
The person who wrote that hit piece on him has never spoken to him, never read any of his books, and never watched any of his debates...including the one that immediately proceeded his debate that was the subject of the hit piece. Stop mixing your politics with the Gospel.

>>133449654
they have been brought up since forever ago because it was always TRUE.

why and how can you reject free grace?? it is biblical!

Ephesians 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

also, I chose KJV not because I think you can't be saved through any other form of the bible, but because it is the most grammatically correct version and clear in its definitions and meaning

>>133449397
To expand further, why would those who die as children or toddlers get a free pass to heaven?

Why do only some souls get a free pass even if they haven't accepted Christ? Wouldn't it be logical for God to kill us all as children so we all get to go to heaven?

You could say "Well, God knew they would be good until they died, so killing them made no difference." That implies God knew who would go to hell and who would go to heaven pre-birth, which he does. So why create the hellbound at all? Seems illogical. God wishes all of us to go to heaven (This is in the book), and to say he sends some to eternal torture knowing they would have failed prior seems wholly unfair.

Reminder that Jesus saved those in hell when he went into Sheol, why isn't that possible any more?

Why would God also wish to save all but not be able? This implies he is not all powerful, incapable of saving all, or man's will supersedes his, which is impossible.

This is why I lean universalist. Makes the most sense that Hell is a fire in which we are tried and tested

>1 Corinthians 3:5
>If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
>God routinely likened to a fire throughout bible

>>133449622
oh shit, I've misjudged you it seems

>>133449749
ive heard James white. listened to the debates. He is apostate in thinking we should have anything to do with Islam.

>>133449397

What exactly did Jesus mean when He said

>Matthew 7:13-14 - Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

>Luke 13:23-24 - Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, 24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

>Mark 16:15-16 - And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

>>133449916
The god you worship sounds more like James white

>>133450135
all good.

>>133450117

>Jesus saved thsoe in hell

He went down to bring out the justified of the era of the OT, since heaven was closed without Him. He didn't "save" anybody that was condemned to hell.

>>133450056
I'm not bashing the KJV. I teach from the KJV but there are better translations out there, my friend. There are awful ones, but there are good ones too. I prefer the ESV myself.
>>133450236
I'm defending a person that is being unjustly slandered. I hold James White in high regard as a teacher, but he is definitely not my God.

If you're so certain that he is wrong then you would have no problem listening to his response.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRfymr6LmJc

>>133450223
>Implying damned is forever
>Probably doesn't know about the hebrew word aionios
>Implying it's 100 percent literal

Why couldn't you answer my question btw?

>>133450056
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBby84KboLbEvRv-PMeaTzTOoTMOkRY26

If you're curious, here are some resources on Reformed Theology. James White has done some work on the King James Only controversy, as well.

>>133449654
Free grace is the most biblical position. It's the only position that claims "faith alone" without the buts. It's the only position that claims "faith alone" without claiming faith and works.

All other systems make God a sinner by false repentance.

Jonah 3:10 KJV - And God saw their works that they turned from their evil way, and God repented of the evil he said he would do to them

>God saw their works that they turned from their evil way
>God saw their works
>works

>God repented
God does not turn from sin. Repentance of Nineveh is shown before they turn from sin in 3:5.

So the people of Nineveh believed God...
Jonah 3:5 KJV
>believed

"Sirs, What is necessary for salvation? And they said 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved'" Acts 16:31

Calvinism, Arminianism, Catholicism, Pentecostal, Mormons, Gnosticism, Prosperity, and many more are on the same sinking boat crafted by the work of man instead of trusting alone in Christ alone apart from deeds.

>>133450417
>Bring out the justified of the era of the OT

Does it say exactly this? Or are you just saying doctrine?

>>133432621
>>133433107

Even if that is so, the idea of being with your loved ones in heaven is a very strong idea in many Christian faiths, and possibly others. I hear people telling their loved ones to be good because they don't want them to go to hell, they want to see them in heaven. They talk about seeing their dead loved ones again when they die.

So if heaven is just being near god and you have to go visit your unsaved loved ones and their is no eternal happiness well they are just preaching bullshit or somehow misinforming each other.

>>133450518

The question was "are there few that are saved" and Jesus answers twice affirming that FEW are saved. Yes, damned is forever, because if ULTIMATELY you are going to heaven, then you are saved. Which means you are calling Jesus a liar, because if universalism is true, then He should have told the man that EVERYBODY is saved.

But, He didn't, Our Lord said that FEW are saved. FEW make it to heaven.

>>133450862
>Through Christ all are saved

What about this direct quote from the bible?

Corinthians 15:22

>>133432484
No you just haven't read the Bible

Revelation 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

God doesn't let you be sad

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>>133432484
>"A" can't get over roastie for eternal bliss in the kingdom of Heaven
>"A" deserves to go to Heaven

You're a nigger

>>133450640
What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Romans 4:1-8 KJV
>Justified in the eyes of God

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? Yea, a MAN may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 2:14, 18-24 KJV
>Justified in the eyes of man

>>133432484
Thou shall love none above the lord your God

Checkmate they should both go to hell

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If we are justified by faith alone, then why does the bible, along with modern day Christian theology, put so much emphasis on doing good works?

>>133433107
Hell is bit seperation from God.
John 3:36 says they feel God's wrath so they clearly are in his presence. And I forgot the verse but it says they get tortured in front of Jesus and the angels

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>>133432484
>lol

You can't get into heaven anon by playing logic games. You think that some wordplay will give you salvation when the gatekeeper is an omnipotent force/being? Pray and let God into your heart, all the rest is a big game we play with ourselves because of our pride and ego (e.g. arguing about what type of Christian you are or what type of atheist, etc.).

>>133451029

You are attempting to quote St. Paul in a section of his letter to the Church of Corinth where he's talking about general resurrection. Read the chapter. He's telling them that Christ will resurrect every human being, as he rose. You're taking your misreading and misapplication of this quote, and trying to override CLEAR and explicit words right from Jesus's own mouth, like a putrid diabolical heretic, attempting to turn Jesus into a liar.

Think about what you are doing to try and twist His truth to your own world view and desire for humanity. Think about how putrid and abominable you are to God.

>>133450711
>>133450711
>strong idea
A strong idea can still be a wrong idea. Democracy is a strong idea that is fundamentally incorrect. You are still thinking about this from a merely corporeal paradigm. In death and resurrection, and in taking on the mantle of supernature, your understanding of reality is perfected and complete in a way that it cannot possibly be when you are bound by the limitations of mere nature.

If your idea of Heaven is simply being within touching distance of the object of your fleshly affections, your capacity to imagine transcendental joy is severely, retardedly handicapped. Expand your horizons. Bitches ain't shit.

>>133432484
>A loves murdering babies. God obviously wants to let a person like that into heaven, but he isn't happy anymore because God won't let him keep murdering babies. Checkmate, Christians.

Kill yourself, you fucking retard.

SAGE

>>133451093
No. With all the "former things" of the dead world passed, there is no cause for ascendant beings to feel sorrow. What you're describing is the stripping away of our essential human faculties.

>>133451524
>Think about how putrid and abominable you are to God

Typical Pharisaical behavior. Notice I never called Jesus a liar, I simply asked you a question and you are exhibiting judgement before someone who you don't even know holds the opinion you think he does. I simply asked a question and you are flipping out.

>>133432484

Religion is a tool used by The Powers That Be in order to keep humanity in line. I DO believe in a God, gods or group of god-like individuals that ensure the continuity of life and all existence. I also believe that everything is precisely how they want it to be, as fucked up as things might be.

Part of the human experience is finding ways to pass the time. We enjoy all of our positive emotions, but in order to experience them we also must experience the negative emotions, otherwise everything would merely be peaceful (read: stagnant). There's also beauty to be found in those other rare emotions we experience, such as wonder, or the overwhelming sense of relief one feels when they believed they were doomed but realize everything will be okay.

And so part of this Grand Life Equation is that humanity is kept within certain limits. God, the gods, whomever they are maintain control through several different means: religion, politics, war, economics, the arts, science, academia, the media, natural catastrophes, disease, in recent years race-mixing and racial tensions, the list goes on. They keep us divided and fighting a foreign enemy, ourselves, or some paralyzing idea or belief system, because it keeps us from combining our efforts and discovering the true nature of our existence. If we discovered that the world would end soon, what would happen to public order? If we discovered the perfect diet and lifestyle to become gods, would access to this lifestyle become a "right"? And what would be the point in becoming gods if we already have them?

Anyway, I think religion is a bunch of bullshit, but it serves its purpose.

>>133451524
And just so we're clear, saved doesn't mean the same thing then? Even though in Adam ALL DIE, THE CONDITION OF HUMANITY, and in CHRIST ALL ARE "SAVED"?

So what was really meant here was

In Adam all die, in Jesus all are resurrected, (and a few are saved).

Right?

>>133452552

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

What is wrong with this ?everyone will be resurrected and then judged

>>133432484
Hell is not eternal suffering, it is merely a place where suffering is possible, where you could stay for eternity.
Hell is Earth.
Heaven is simply a place where suffering is not possible.

>>133453243
That's not at all what heaven is. Hell is being denied God's grace and heaven is being with Him.

>>133453367
>>133453243

Religion-induced autism arguing with religion-induced autism.

>>133453551
Just correcting someone who's being wrong on the internet. No need to get all upset about it.

>>133445466
the first so called Christ is going to be the anti, so it's going to be pretty big, i have to read revelation again but i remember almost everybody is going to believe him and fall for the NWO

>>133432484
Read Dante's Inferno (or watch not As bad as I thought EA movie)

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>>133454383

>>133432484
>places higher value on their lover than on Christ
>is going to heaven
Pick one

>>133454658
well maybe not right now, you need to see some things happen before, like USA being nuked, Damascus being erased, Israel building the 3rd temple, till then everything is fine

>>133443304
So the most moral thing to do is to kill all children, guaranteeing eternal bliss for everyone. Any real-world suffering pales in comparison to this moral imperative of salvation.

I assume people who've never learned of Christ are auto-saved anyway, by the same argument. Thus it's hugely immoral to place their souls in jeopardy by telling them about this Choice.

Therefore, the moral thing for Christians to do is seclude themselves, and kill all of their children. What is this life compared to Eternity, after all?

>>133455864
t. Cathar

>>133432857
>live a good life, try to be good
>live in a region where you never got a chance to be exposed to Jesus
>die one day
>"go to hell, do not pass go, do not collect 200 heaven bucks"

Real fair "god" you got there Catholicism.

>>133443304
Passage please?

You faggots assume life would be the same in heaven. We wouldn't have the same sense of individuality, we'd probably 'join' consciousness with god. Hell would be eternal nothingness, outside of the shared consciousness. It's pretty much optimization but with souls.

>>133457275
John 20
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

>>133457542
>We wouldn't have the same sense of individuality, we'd probably 'join' consciousness with god.
Sounds awful. Your reward for being the best person you can be is to effectively not exist anymore.

>>133432621
The Christian catch-all. Heaven is beyond our understanding

>2017
>not hating those who hate God with a perfect hatred

c'mon bruh

>>133458735
OP is basically defining heaven as "your personal fantasy".

"Anything else" is not exactly "beyond understanding".

>>133458810
Psalm 139
20 For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain.
21 Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

>>133432484
Will you go to Heaven when you die? Here’s a quick test: Have you ever lied, stolen, or used God’s name in vain? Jesus said,
“Whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”
If you have done these things, God sees you as a lying, thieving, blasphemous, adulterer at heart,
and the Bible warns that one day God will punish you in a terrible place called Hell.
But God is not willing that any should perish. Sinners broke God’s Law and Jesus paid their fine.
This means that God can legally dismiss their case:
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”
Then Jesus rose from the dead, defeating death. Today, repent and trust Jesus, and God will give you eternal life as a free gift.
Then read the Bible daily and obey it. God will never fail you.

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>>133459357
>God will never fail you
THEN WHY WON'T HE GIVE ME A GIRLFRIEND

>>133432484
OP believes in aliens though....

He has a cool UFO story he tells when he is drunk.