Literally what the fuck is alluring about communism

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>>133279561
Pic related is why most of the tards support it. That or they can't think about anything aside from black and white.

>>133279561
it's virtue signaling, contrarianism, gibs lust, and gives people the illusion of having a cause to fight for

It feels empowering to weaklings who hate themselves

>>133279849
>>133280411
>>133279941


That makes a lot of sense recently. I was talking to a communist and he said automation will make labor unnecessary and that the only reason labor exists is to tie down the workers and keep the current manufacturing leaders in charge.

But it's like, most Americans don't fucking work in a factory. That's not what economy is based on

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yes, communism is the way of the future!

>>133280904
Automation isn't coming in the speed or amount they are saying, if that were the case, why import hoards of immigrants, if you ignore that it's essentially for increasing their votes because their policys are shit.

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>>133279561
Communism is a revenge fantasy anon, people who didn't have the willpower and intelligence to work their way up the hierarchy desire to bring everybody down to their level.

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>>133280904
Commies never really say why, if automation is going to "make work obsolete" (a complete falsehood), we should automatically go for communism and not fascism, distributism, UBI, etc.

>>133279561
>Philosophical reason to support communism.
It is based on liberalism, but with two tricks. Liberalism requires you to simply believe in human rights and liberal values. Marxism is a critical theory that allows for criticism and modification of said values.

Communism offers the most well thought-out and final vision of an ideal society, a utopia.

>Practical reasons
Communists, I mean, marxists in general offer pragmatic and practical solutions that appeal to public.

>Historical reasons
Communism, in fact, failed in very few places: Cambodia, Albania, DPRK is on the way. In other cases, it resulted in great success and tremendous achievements.

A broader Marxist ideology has basically shaped the whole modern world. Human rights, taxation, social rights, worker rights.

So here you go.

>>133279561
It has (latent) widespread support in academia, due to it's tendency to be seen as a sort of extension of enlightenment values, in that it's main selling point is the devolution of power to the people directly. The issue is that it never ever works out that way, because in order to enforce that new order of "workers owning the means of production" on a large scale you need a central authority. Because the revolutionaries have already broken up large corporations and re-distributed the wealth of the few wealthy who haven't already fled, there's no one who can reliably act as a power-check to the new government and before you know it- dictatorship.

But of course, if you oppose this you're seen as unenlightened and backwards by them. After all, it's hard to argue against empowering the little guy and liberating humanity from the grips of their cabal of oppressive corporate moguls. As radicals, they will always have the moral high-ground, and any arguments against their perfect, infallible system will be dismissed as ignorance of their superior viewpoint.

>>133281833
How can automation make

>>133279561
Some people are just lazy and childish emotionally.
the only commie I know is also
A) the dumbest person I've ever met
B) the least reliable person I've ever met
C) the most manipulative person I've ever met
and D) the most confident person I've ever met
In short, it takes a special kind of stupid to be communist.
You have to be just stupid enough to fail at life but just arrogant enough to think that it's not your fault and you deserve free shit as compensation.

>>133279849
If its inevitable. Why do you have to force it?

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>>133282607
No no no you can't just take my statement and then say "that's not true" all practical knowledge says I'm right. The burden of proof is on you. Not me.

I said communism doesn't offer practical efficient solutions and instead of explaining why, you stated what and said "communism does make sense and is practical"

You can't just make a statement. You have to explain it. I explained mine. You just made contrary statements.

>>133281833
>UBI
What is this?

>>133279561
>Dictatorships = Socialism = Communism
Keep drinking that KoolAid, while you keep telling yourself that there's no need for regulations because the market will regulate itself.

>>133282607
"Liberalism requires you to simply believe in human rights and liberal values. Marxism is a critical theory that allows for criticism and modification of said values."

That's some real shitty brain washing right there, a scentance without any meaning.

Marxism (won't say communism l assume because Marxism sounds smarter, also at no point did I specifically mention Marxism, I said the blanket of communism, this is already changing the subject)
is a critical theory (no it's not it's an economic concept, anything is a critical theory, the word critical is useless and is a red herring)
that allows for (no, allowing for anything is librality, communism isn't about allowing one to think a new way, it's not that in the slightest, the primary argument against communism is thee loss of free thought we can already change our values in a capitalist society, in fact that's a major part of capitalism)
the criticism and modification (no, communism simply does not have room for criticism or modification, capitalism allows for various beliefs and economic systems on a macro level, communism is a control economy because it literally controls the economy)
Of said values (you didn't mention any values, I already stated that I don't think it's a moral catch all and apparently there's a lot of other people that feel that way, in fact I think many people would say he primary issue with communism is a moral one)

>>133283374
Pls be more polite. I will, of course, explain further.

>I said communism doesn't offer practical efficient solutions
Everything in Communist Manifesto is pretty much universally adopted policies.
Taxation: Progressive tax and inheritance tax.
Worker rights
Social Rights
International politics.
Egalitarianism.

Marxist parties successfully set up modern Europe and, obviously, the Authoritarian Communist countries.

Communist system brought great economic prosperity, stability and political leadership to China and Vietnam.

Social Democracy brought significant achievements to Europe and the whole world.

>>133282607
">Practical reasons
Communists, I mean, marxists in general offer pragmatic and practical solutions that appeal to public."

Is literally not an argument you can't hear me say, it's not practical and just say "uh-huh yea it is" I've already expressed disagreement in this matter so once again the burden of proof is on you.

>>133284452
It is an argument. The fact that political ideology effectively manages to seize power and establish itself in the government is the most fundamental and basic criteria of its' success.

Basically, that is why lolbertarians don't deserve to be called political ideology or philosophy.

>>133279561
being underage

>>133284298
Let me clarify it for you by examples.

All new political policies and thought after the collapse of Fascism have only emerged from Marxism. Including the critisism of Communist system itself (Terms like Totalitarianism and authoritarianism, for example). That is because it's not just the best political theory. It's the only theory that allows for systematic progress of political and social science.

Op is retarded if he thinks communism has killed more people then centuries of glorious crusades.

Communism doesn't work because of two resaons: the CIA overthrows every attempt and all politicians are retarded.

When half your country isn't educated enough to work anywhere but Walmart and they tell you to go get foodstamps when working there 40 hours a week communism becomes your wet dream.

Capitalism is better if you're educated but communism is better for the Walmart employees of the world.

>>133281635
>Communism is a revenge fantasy anon
That flag

>>133285245
>Capitalism is better if you're educated but communism is better for the Walmart employees of the world.

You do realise that right wingers are hillbillies, losers and dirtpoor states and countries, while the leftists are educated people, rich states and countries, philanthropist billionaires?

>>133282916
Make what?

>>133283473
Universal Basic Income.

>>133281635
We do not have anything to revenge for, because we won in the first place. As for hierarchy, please check out who is the current UN secretary general, and point out to a single nazi who is someone other than a pathetic wigger or a youtube snakeoul salesman.

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>>133285532
I think you're confusing liberals with communists.

>>133279561
Communism is the most logical system, that's all. Think about it. If you have to organize a computer network under an AI government, would you have capitalism or communism? Capitalism doesn't make sense if you remove the human imperfections from the system. Communism is how you would organize machines. Humans can't handle communism, but it can work in a human society as long as it's run by AI. I'm convinced this is what the society of the future will be like.

>>133281833
>Fascism
Irrational violence for irrational ends. This is a good option if you want to collapse the rational society capable of producing such a level of surplus
>Distributism
False premise (i.e. Catholic Social Teaching) requires belief in unfalsifiable God.
>UBI
IOTW, the gibs you already strenuously object to and genuine leftists find insulting. (You) might as well Be With Her.

Whether you are left or right 80 percent of the world is retarded.
All liberals have god complexes and want to sacrifice to make the world better
All right wing people think they are going to get rich so want the power structures to stay in place

>>133284445
none of those are practical and none of these are "universally adopted"
You used blanket terms and attributed them to communism

Let me tear each one apart individually

"Progressive tax" actually there is a huge amount of countries with a flat tax.

"Inheritance tax" is fundamentally immoral. They tax somone their whole life, then they die and they tax the taxed goods before the widows and orphans can recieve it. Inheritance tax is at best usury and at worst the state filling its coffers with the money of widows. It isn't moral and it's distopian

"Worker rights" is a capitalist concept. In capitalism you have the right to barter and change what your worth and your working conditions and your job duties, these things aren't what I honk of in China or Vietnam or laos or Russia. Communism doesn't work because you can't let somone own a monopoly and the state and expect them to run it morally

"Social rights" no those are from John Locke, Voltaire, the founding fathers of America (inalienable rights, have you even read the preamble to the constitution?) and a few ancient fucks. It started with the birth of the republic which came into existence because of massive industrialization and the forgetting of the divine right of kings

"International politics" what could possibly be implied here? Am I to believe that you are unaware that various countries communicated and warred and traded until 200 years ago or are you talking about the invention of supranational entities like the UN, EU and NATO.

"Egalitarianism" it's not egalitarian to rob from the rich and give to the poor, the perfect example of egalitarianism is Christ from the Bible, redistribution of wealth and the ceasation of the means of production from private citizens is in no way egalitarian

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>>133285828
>We do not have anything to revenge for
The Tsar and his entire family?

>because we won in the first place
Where is the USSR again? Where is the global communist utopia that was prophesied?

>please check out who is the current UN secretary general, and point out to a single nazi who is someone other than a pathetic wigger or a youtube snakeoul salesman.
Thanks for proving my point.

>>133281635
Pretty much this man, they'll eat the rich once and then starve

>>133285887
Communists don't argue that communism would be possible immediately. That would be Anarcho-communists.

While the communists acknowledge that, they may still apply rational and intellectual solutions to running the society, rather than the feels and faith.

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>>133285927
>requires belief in unfalsifiable God.
Distributism is an economic system, not a religious ideology.

>>133279561
In an insane dying society people long for a strong leader bringing order and purpose under a sacred idea. Fascism is crime-think so they go to communism.

>>133285245
There weren't more than 200 crusade battles. There weren't millions to kill. It's a fundamental fact that the crusades did not kill as many people as communism.

>>133283473
One of the stupidest and most blatantly dysgenic things of our age

>>133286199
>Distributism is an economic system, not a religious ideology.
Actually it's Popish socialism, I've read Chesterton.

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>>133279561
With the right communist leadership you could win a world war or become the top world economy.

>>133284298
Holy shit, if you want people to read what you write, please learn how organize and format your ideas.

>>133279561

They yearn to be part of something greater.

No matter how misguided or naive that greater is.

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>>133286436
China ain't even communist though.

>>133283473
Universal Basic Income

>>133285861
The boundaries between the two are quite blurry. But what I have written is completely true in terms of political spectrum.

>>133279561

Dumb people get cnned into thinking it means free shit.
The con artists think they'll be the ones treated as elites.
None of which is true.

>>133286517
I did. The quote is formatted in plain text at the beginning of the scentance then the explanation is written in parenthesis next to it. Sorry bout your IQ and puzzle recognition though

>>133286574
And they want free shit

>>133286592
Chinese political and economic system is a practical application of Marxism-Leninism. And it isn't very different from what Lenin himself did in Russia.

Your "No true Scotsman" is quite pathetic, especially considering how much people like you like to mention "That's not real communism" meme.

The idea that other people will be (((working))) and (((sharing)))

>>133286742
>The boundaries between the two are quite blurry
One believes in private property, free speech, free trade, hierarchy, and taxes, and the other doesn't.

>But what I have written is completely true in terms of political spectrum
I don't even like the Nazi's but they did have a lot of high IQ's in the party (http://www.ahctv.com/the-nuremberg-21-listed-by-iq-score/).

The like the word communism first and foremost COMMunism? COMMunity? Wow lol I'm like such a social creature haha! XD

Second of all, because they think communism is a "government of the community" or rather "government FOR the community" they think that under a communist government they can just like hang oooouuut with their besties like who wants to work lol? The government should pay us to breathe to we can PARRRTYY!

little do they know that under communism they will be worked like dogs for peanuts and probably due of starvation.

>>133285927
>Irrational violence
Like forcibly seizing the lawful property of private citizens
>requires belief in unfalsifiable God
Like belief in the unfalsifiable infallibility of the party

>>133286073
>The Tsar and his entire family?
His execution was carried out for rational reasons: as the town was threatened by the Whites, he was feared to be released.

>Where is the USSR again?
USSR was first, but one of many Marxist countries and movements. See any Nazis around nowadays, BTW?

>>133286517

If I have to spend longer reading your scrambled mess of ideas than scientific articles published in Nature to understand what you are trying to convey, then it's your fault.

Space out those ideas with some more sentencs and line breaks. Try to be more concise.

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>>133286975
>Chinese political and economic system is a practical application of Marxism-Leninism.
So the only practical application of Marxism-Leninism is literally to throw out communism altogether and embrace capitalism? Okay, then, I'll be the first to admit that the USA is a very successful communist nation.

>>133282607
>Communism offers the most well thought-out and final vision of an ideal society, a utopia.
Capitalism is the true utopia: You are forced to give others what they need in exchange for money. If you're good at it, you rise. If not, you dream of revolution and want to bring down everyone to your level.


>Marxists in general offer pragmatic and practical solutions that appeal to public.
This cuck cant be serious.

Has it ever occurred to you that for some reason only socialist countries has a huge need for labor camps and political prisons?


>It resulted in great success and tremendous achievements.
Russia was a solid 6/10 country before the revolution. Just look at the shithole it turned into now, thanks to soviet union. You'll take centuries just to reach current western economy level.

Socialism was designed by a bitter jobless cuck who lived off of his capitalist friends fortune.

Get out.

>>133286975
On the contrary.

China's government has done the hilarious effect of having the government be the big companies that produces for china.

China is now actually a Parallel to Victorian/Imperial Britan, with Private companies funded and sponsored by the state

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>>133287254
>His execution was carried out for rational reasons
And the rest of the family?

>USSR was first, but one of many Marxist countries and movements
Only 5 of which remain.

>>133279561
The only thing worth taking from communism is its unferstanding of class, the economics side is garbage. The whole thing about a stable class needing a shared fate is higly applicable to natsoc

>>133282607
>Utopia
>Ignoring the fact human's require strife to grow and become the most they can be
>Ignoring that difficulty is required to find meaning
>Thinking humans can create a system so isolated form nature the most basic dynamics can be broken
I know I got baited but WEW LAD

>>133279561
>Literally what the fuck is alluring about communism
The are people in society, who are worthless, lazy, just bottom of the barrel.
For them communism is a perfect opportunity to take away stuff from people, who actually worked hard and earned it.
My great grandmother told me a story, when the reds took over. They lived in a village, so it was a tight community and everybody knew each other. So when collectivization began and they started confiscating property. And who were doing the confiscation? Only the scum, drunkards, outcasts. Reds gave them weapons and they were happy to take away things from their own folk.
Also there are obviously people who just have absolutely zero understanding of reality, of such simple things like dominance hierarchy. They believe you can create an absolutely equal society and that it will be great. You simply can't reason with them. You just shoot them.

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>>133288064
>You simply can't reason with them. You just shoot them.
This is very true. So far every time I've talked with communists in depth they've eventually admitted that their system will likely never work, but they don't care, they would rather the whole of humanity be destroyed rather than live in a world without communism, they literally have no morals other than "enforce communism".

>>133287478
>Only 5 of which remain.
Five countries, completely controlled by one of many forms of Marxism, one of which is superpower, you mean.

>>133287478
>And the rest of the family?
Same reason: any heir can be set up as a pretender

>>133282607
>this is what commie fags actually believe

>a utopia
You know what this word means, right?

>>133279561

I'm commie because i think it's non sense to wake up in the morning then go to work in order to create benefit for shareholders you'd never see at office / factory or anywhere, even if they paid an amount so you keep setting the alarm. When i talk about communism, people would say, "wouldn't you be mad at people less
efficiant at work than you and earning the same ?". I answer that we should be even more mad at working for people that don't show at office at 8am like I do.

Capitalism was an error of history, because it was the simpliest way but not the most logical either fair way to create factory during the industrial revolution

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>>133288599
>completely controlled by one of many forms of Marxism
All of them have embraced some measure of capitalism.

>>133287389
>Has it ever occurred to you that for some reason only socialist countries has a huge need for labor camps and political prisons?
Any radical system requires that. And socialism is not all radical, by the way.

Even then, the Gulag meme had less incarcerated per capita than the current American Prison system - that is - including German POWs.

>Capitalism is the true utopia: You are forced to give others what they need in exchange for money. If you're good at it, you rise. If not, you dream of revolution and want to bring down everyone to your level.

No. The capital gives you power. To upset the power balance via skills is no more likely than for a Roman slave or European serf to become a king. You can, of course, have some social mobility, in a same manner as a serf could become a house servant, bodyguard or even an advisor.

>Russia was a solid 6/10 country before the revolution. Just look at the shithole it turned into now, thanks to soviet union. You'll take centuries just to reach current western economy level.

Russia was approximately a century behind militarily when it entered WWI, and even more so in other branches of development. Several decades of communism resulted in one of the two most powerful armies in the world, and global breakthroughs in science, engineering and society.

>Get out.
Oooh, is someone butthurt?

>>133288064

Blue collar-workers nowaday vote for far-right, i.e. fachists. Most of commies / anarchists I know are actually educated workers, so maybe they are the bottom of the barrel in your country but definitivly not in mine (France).

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>>133285486
Elaborate

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>>133289708
>Blue collar-workers nowaday vote for far-right, i.e. fascists
That doesn't bode well for communism, that they can't even get the support of the working class anymore

>>133287389
>Russia was a solid 6/10 country before the revolution.
You should read some books burgers, tsarist Russia was more 1/10 than 6/10

>>133289927
The working class is actually 70% of the working population, so i think you're talking about minimum wage workers. Yeah I guess it's a bad thing, but Front National has a kinda socialist politics in some way.

>>133289600
>All of them have embraced some measure of capitalism.
So? Communism isn't antagonistic to capitalism as a political system. Capitalism is regarded as a stage of evolution of human society - not bad or evil, just imperfect and subject to change and improvement.

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>>133290183
>Capitalism is regarded as a stage of evolution of human society
But the evolution has been regressive, nations like China have become more capitalist over time, not less. If communism is the next stage then you're moving in the wrong direction.

>so i think you're talking about minimum wage worker
I was thinking more along the lines of the non-minimum wage working class, the people who work blue-collar jobs for long periods of time.

>>133290541
Also intended for >>133290140

>>133290183
yeah a stage of evolution beyond communism

>>133286975
No it isn't. It's literally referred to as Maoism which is communism but not Marxist

>>133287292
Sorry I'm an only child and all my friends are autistic or high IQ so I kinda have that trump style scentance structure built on references.

I get that it's hard to understand but it's not a grammar issue and it's not a spelling issue I just word things poorly

>>133293736

Thanks for using line breaks, you are already improving.

>>133289326
How bout you just buy some stock and become a shareholder you fucking retard. You're supposed to participate in the market.

>>133279561
>If you don't want to work there go somewhere else
What is monopoly
>It's immoral to force somone to give you more stuff just because they hired you
None hires you in communism, there are no factory owners
>Communism destroys all the checks and balances that America has laid out in its constitution
>Communism disenfranchises the populace by rewarding public favor over merit
Don't see why these are bad
>It's had no positive effects on anyone ever outside of the Israeli settlements
The Jews would be the ones that would benefit the least, they wouldn't be able to run merchant businesses


I get that you don't like communism and want to critique it, but at least try to do it right you faggot. The first step in fighting your enemy would probably be knowing who your enemy is

>>133282607
>communism resulted in great success in most places

Good fucking joke. care to list examples? China didn't become an economic powerhouse until they dropped the communist meme in the late 70s and got hundreds of millions out of poverty in the process. Communism is why an entire region of Europe is stunted and is still recovering.

>>133279561
The allure of holding the moral high ground, can often overpower ones better judgment. If you really look a most supporters of it, they do honestly think they're doing what's best for people, despite all evidence to the contrary.

>>133298604
Same with Vietnam in the late 80s. Africa alone is filled with many failed Marxist states.