Why don't you support universal healthcare?

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SAGE THIS SLIDE THREAD.

Because I genuinely believe that a certain percentage of Americans should needlessly die each year.

Because I don't want the governmental bureaucrats deciding what the *best* treatments are for everything and have control over what treatments are best for me and my family. Nor do I think that big pharma should be at the core. Most chronic disease is a result of crap eating habits. Why should I pay for others diabetes medications?

The fatties need to pay for their own shit or die.

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Socialized healthcare always becomes an inefficient piece of shit, run by a permanently bankrupt public entity that becomes a tax money sink hole, with nightmarish wait times for surgeries (sometimes even years), and with skyrocketing hidden costs since it's paid for by taxes and people doesn't give a shit how much it really costs. Also it multiplies the number of petty government workers with inflated salaries the state has to feed, which is just yet another 'argument' for the state to confiscate more of the income of those who actually work, for those who don't to consume. Even if you really really wanted the state to be involved in the healthcare market it'd be a hundred times better to limit it to a healthcare voucher for those who can't really afford an insurance than even suggest any of the mentioned before. And even that only works in small countries in which the voters actually control their government and can keep it in check, instead of the shit that has been going on with those programs in america like the ACA, Medicaid and other similar bullshit programs whose main goal was to make healthcare expensive by raising the barriers of entry to that market.

If you love the concept of 'bread line' and 'rationing' and want everything to be run as well run as the post office or the traffic department are then yes, I'm sure you'll love socialized healthcare.

Only people that idealize socialized healthcare are those living in countries without it.

TLDR: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

>>132997256
What is the FDA?

Considering the US has 300M and Norway -- in 2nd place -- has FAR less, is it that shocking?

>>132998985
> What is the difference between total and per capita spending

>>132997256
Because I'm not responsible for Da'Shawn's 400-pound diabetic 7 heart attacks, and refuse to pay for them.

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>>132999209
Here's the most recent per capita inflation adjusted data I can find up to 2014. We're still #1.
http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/04/20/524774195/what-country-spends-the-most-and-least-on-health-care-per-person
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)30874-7/fulltext
>Table 1 shows that in 2014 health spending per capita across all countries was $1279. This spending was concentrated in high-income countries, and ranged from $33 in Somalia to $9237 in the USA. These extremes, which are reported using 2015 PPP $ to account for inflation and different prices across countries, highlight the tremendous variation in how much is spent on health around the world. Disparate spending levels also exist within World Bank income groups.

>In 2014, health spending across low-income countries was $120 per capita, but range from $33 (Somalia) to $347 (Uganda). Spending per capita across lower-middle-income countries was $267, but ranged from $92 (Bangladesh) to $791 (Tunisia), while spending per capita in upper-middle-income countries was $914, but ranged from $228 (Angola) to $1980 (Maldives). Finally, health spending per capita was $5221 in high-income countries, and ranged from $853 (Seychelles) to $9237 (USA).

>>132998762
How is it inefficient? You end up with a vastly larger pool of revenue to pay for services and maximum leverage to bargain against producers to keep costs in check. Now it's this cost containment leverage in picking and choosing what to pay for and how much that gets >>132998328 upset. But the market for health services is perfectly inelastic. Consumers have no leverage to argue against whatever price is set for them by doctors, nurses, pharma, etc, it's pay or die. Governments aren't under such duress to accept whatever terms the producers wish to demand. Insurance companies aren't either but they aren't large or powerful enough to put a boot on the neck of the sole hospital in an area to hold rates down

>>133000686


>http://npr org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/04/20/524774195/what-country-spends-the-most-and-least-on-health-care-per-person
https://archive.is/BUkj4

>>133000686
No I know we're number 1, the guy seemed to be implying that we spent so much more than any country, like Norway, because our population was so big, and I was making a point that it was our per capita spending that was massive compared to any other country, not just our total spending.

>>133000686
>Consumers have no leverage to argue against whatever price is set for them by doctors, nurses, pharma, etc, it's pay or die.
Lack of alternatives is caused by regulation.

>Governments aren't under such duress to accept whatever terms the producers wish to demand.
Laughable. Governments are BRIBED (either directly or indirectly) to impose regulations beneficial to them. See: The 'revolving door' thing leftists use to complain so much about.

>>132997256
If you're too stupid/lazy to earn the means to pay for your own healthcare then you deserve to die like the parasite that you are

>>132998762
>Socialized healthcare always becomes an inefficient piece of shit,
stopped reading there, ancaps need to be gassed.
The truth is that since the 70s national governments have been reducing public expenditure in literally every sector, healthcare included. The result is that those services become worse as they are financed less and less. Then they are sold at a discount to private investors, who are usually "friends" of politicians, who do nothing to improve the services but rather improve fees to fatten their pockets.
One example of this: US with healthcare, UK with trains

>>133001166
>Lack of alternatives is caused by regulation.
lack of regulation always results in the formation of oligopolies and monopolies

>>133001233
t.30-year-old basement-dwelling virgin NEET

>>133001233
You faggots have no idea. If you're healthy it's easy to say that, but even if you're paying for a decent health care plan it only covers so much. And health care plans are prohibitively expensive in the US anywa.

>>132997256
I rather dislike the poor. Instead of paying to heal you we can import another tard to dispense burgers

Single payer has failed all over the world. Do you want to see what "universal healthcare" gets you? Google Charlie Gard. That's what is gets you. Universal anything brings everyone down to the lowest common denominator. Always!!!!Universal means everybody gets crapt type of service.

>>133001688
t.30-year-old basement-dwelling virgin NEET projecting his own failures onto others

>>133002013
>Charlie Gard
The kids was fucked when he was born. Even American doctors say he's fucked. And yet the parents wants to blow a million dollars in donations on him.

Single payer works well enough in Finland and other European countries.

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>>133002013
> Single payer has failed all over the world.
WTF are you talking about? If anything the US has a system much closer to failing or considered being a failure than any country with single-payer or a similar system via something like an insurance mandate.
Why don't you think people from Germany, the Netherlands, or Sweden complain about their healthcare systems or its costs nearly as much as Americans?

>>132997256
Because I'm trying to see poor niggers die

>>133001632
Cool opinion bro. Excuse me if I don't take your word for it.

>>133002202
Well most of them probably use Medicaid, meanwhile many middle class people actually struggle to pay for healthcare since we don't have a universal system.

>>133002075
t.30-year-old basement-dwelling virgin NEET who thinks there are many losers just like him therefore everyone pointing it out must be projecting.
Sorry cupcake, you're an untermensch and you're alone

>>133002313
well, you're a retard if you don't know that's what happens. But then again you're an ancap, which could be used as a euphemism for handicap

>>133001905
The poor can go fuck themselves, but healthcare here is still shit. My plan takes 10% of my salary, after state and the Feds take 30%. Then I have to pay a 6k deductible before those swindling insurance companies even pay a penny. All this anti free healthcare shit is just pushed by these fucking insurance companies who have made record amounts of money. Stop bombing goathearding sandniggers in mudslimistan and use that money for some bare bones healthcare so I don't get fucked in the ass by hospitals and doctors when I tear my acl

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>>133001442
That is exactly my point. The reason why socialized healthcare is bad is because politicians only build it in the first place to undefund it with the purpose of 1) increasing taxes when the service turns out to be shit and people is yelling at them to increase funding (as they planned in the first place) or 2) build with tax money and sell at low price to cronies.

>>133002423
Thank you for reiterating the importance of your opinions. I'll take them on account, even if only to more easily identify ill-informed peoples in the future.

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>>132997256
>Countries spending less than the average are almost all countries with below average healthcare
>Shitholes like Mexico and Turkey don't spend anything on healthcare because everyone is dead before 30

Props to Japan and Finland for efficiency though

>>133002013
You know they have private healthcare in Britain if you pay for it. Just cuz there's govt healthcare doesn't mean you can't by private. That fucking Charlie kid should have died anyway, what a waste of money and effort on some brain damaged little retard who will never contribute anything to society. When I have a kid I hope there's a law which lets me drown the fucker if he turns out downs, no fucking way am I dealing with that shit

>>132999293
But think about his 14 kids growing up without a father. do you want that

>>133002829
>That is exactly my point. The reason why socialized healthcare is bad is because politicians only build it in the first place to undefund it with the purpose of 1) increasing taxes when the service turns out to be shit and people is yelling at them to increase funding (as they planned in the first place) or 2) build with tax money and sell at low price to cronies.
you literally didn't understand anything I said, but then again ancaps are functionally lilliterate

>>133002829
you'll always be poor anon, which wouldn't be bad if you weren't also retarded

I'm a supporter of universal healthcare here, dying americans isn't a problem desu

socialism isn't productive
we need no taxes, and less government, to get healthcare affordable.

>>133002834
The life expectancy of Turkey is only 3 years less than the US though. In Mexico it's about 2.

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>>133003087
This is what happens when you throw pearls to the swine, smfh.

You are ill informed and your views are entirely based off of mainstream culture political cliches (memes), whereas my points of view come from a personal research on how markets, the economy and the public sector works. I don't think you really have much else to say and I believe you are a pretty worthless poster, one I will no longer keep replying to. You're welcome.

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>>133003517
The US only excels in one area in healthcare compared to developed nations: and that is with specialist wait times, which doesn't even always come in first in all specialties compared to some other developed countries. It's ultimately negligible in the grand scheme, considering in pretty much every universal healthcare system out there (outside of actual communist countries like North Korea, Venezuela, and Cuba) you still have the option to buy into private insurance if you want faster wait times for services (chiefly specialists). Here, only a fraction of our population who has good insurance plans from their employers can enjoy in that benefit, but even when so, the actual differences in wait time are minor and insignificant for most people, that it doesn't outweigh all the faults. If you're truly pro-rugged individualist, you still can bypass those waittimes for going to a private clinic, the only difference for it under universal healthcare systems compared to the US is it being not the norm for people to do that. You can not say those who purchase private insurance under said systems are more burden by taxes to fund their systems, and thus it's unfair to the individual compared to ours, when it simply isn't true: we spend near similar in public expenditures compared to most OECD nations; our unbridled private system just further raises the costs across the board because it's inefficient.

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>>132997256

>>133001442
>Socialized healthcare always becomes an inefficient piece of shit,
>stopped reading there

You need to be gassed. You are the true subhuman. You piece of fucking dog shit. You probably don't even know how to recover the body from tumors or cancer. Please, end yourself. You are a typical allopathicist.

>>132997256
FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION.

SOME PEOPLE DO NOT JUST NEED IT.

>>132997256

it doesnt work.

have you seen the wait times in Canada? Thank god I am healthy and dont need serious care.

>>132997256

US medical costs are super high because of bad practice which stems from absolutely FUCKED tort law. Single payer would not fix this. But more importantly, the vast majority of medical costs are self inflicted, and expecting the consequences of poor lifestyle choices to be subsidized by the taxpayer is indefensible.