Do you ever get disgusted by the vulgarity of capitalism gone too far?

a basqiuat just went for $125,000,000 and you're worried about classic american cars selling for a million? peculiar focus there lad

>>132936909
Why is it vulgar to pay a lot of money for an old, well preserved car? An item that is rare and has historical, sentimental and esthetical value?

You you sound like a jelly faggot to me who tries too hard to rationalize his jealousy - a road that leads to becoming a full blown communist

>>132937338
It's a familiar example, my friend. There's even a television show about it.

>do you ever get disgusted by supply and demand

>>132936909
There's nothing vulgar about buying a fucking car unless the car is decorated with degenerate shit.

Why does the fact that other people have money bother you? Why are you envious freaks loved by God?

>>132937706
>Why is it vulgar to pay a lot of money for an old, well preserved car? An item that is rare and has historical, sentimental and esthetical value?
Because at the end of the day it is only a car. The preservation of historic artifacts is noble, but this is not a positive example. These cars sell for so much simply because people are willing to pay this much for them. I find this unethical. I find it to be a weakness in the moral fiber of the nation. If there was a lowered demand because money was being spent on better things, then the cars would still be preserved while more good was done. And if the cars are lost in exchange for a better future I am willing to take that loss. Again, it is only a car. Many of them are already preserved, they are well documented. There is too much focus here to the point of vulgarity.

>>132936909

"Vulgar"? Those cars were hand-crafted. A lot of men ten times the value of your average man today spent many, many hours crafting them. They are objects that symbolize good quality work and enjoyment of life, far more than something like a modern art painting.

In addition, the notion of "spending money on X instead of Y" is also completely retarded. When they spend money on a car instead of X, the money goes to the car seller who has equal capacity to spend it on X. The money is not "lost".

>>132938005
Read my OP again, think for 60 seconds, and reply again in a more intelligent manner that actually addresses the topic.

>>132938399
>These cars sell for so much simply because people are willing to pay this much for them.

Very insightful. They sell for a sum "simply because" someone is willing to pay that sum.

>>132938494
I have issues with spending excessive amounts on any kind of art, whether it is a painting or an attractive car design.
> A lot of men ten times the value of your average man today spent many, many hours crafting them. They are objects that symbolize good quality work and enjoyment of life
Symbolize. Your word. Implying they do not actually contribute anything other than spiritual fulfillment. This is fine in moderation, but spending millions of dollars on a single car when that money could be put towards medical research that will cause far more practical, common good is vulgar. It's offensive. It's childish.

In addition to all this, Americans in general place too much value on automobile "culture".

>the common good
Fuck off, its not up for you to decide how people should spend their money. This thread is stupid and likely some leftist faggot trying to turn us into commie idiots like him.

>>132938534
You "argument" is a feel.

>I feel like
>it is also vulgar
>It's just too much

The fact that people can have more is not a bad thing. God gave us rational minds with which to apply to the world He created. You feeling like people have too much to do with is not substantive. It's your feel. A worthless feel that nobody cares about, and that's based in either envy or a misconception of God's Will.

>>132938646
There are objects which are intrinsically valuable because of their measurably higher qualities than their competition. Classic cars are inferior in most aspects compared to modern vehicles other than the aesthetics. If there were a practically measurable advantage in these cars to justify their price it would not be vulgar.

>>132939070
You are an imbecile. Read more books.

>>132938949
>its not up for you to decide how people should spend their money
It's a democracy isn't it?

>>132939294
Brilliant retort dipshit~

>>132939375
You are an imbecile. Read more books. And kys you stupid commie faggot. Your bullshit tactics are so obvious.

>>132939216
No, arguments can be made for classic cars. While they lack the same safety, comfortability, fuel efficiency and performance among other things, they are also usually mechanically simpler which means cheaper repairs, they lack electronics which is prone to breaking, they can't be remotely deactivated by the CIA.

As for "intrinsic value", old cars still take you and your goods from point A to point B, and were more than good enough for people in the past.

t. Owner of a '81 car

>>132939383
You have made not substantial contributions to the discussion. Only repeated my own OP as it were some manner of refutation. Yes, I feel. I literally wrote that in the OP. That is the point. It is not the law, it is something that goes beyond the law and I am asking
>Do you ever get disgusted by the vulgarity of capitalism gone too far?
A question you have not answered even though it is the subject of the thread.

>The fact that people can have more is not a bad thing.
It is sinful to spend exorbitant amounts of money on what amount to toys.
>God gave us rational minds with which to apply to the world He created.
Yes, and I am saying we should use them more often and make choices more in line with what we supposedly believe.
>You feeling like people have too much to do with is not substantive.
>It's your feel. A worthless feel that nobody cares about,
By replying to this thread you substantiate it. You care enough to reply.
>and that's based in either envy or a misconception of God's Will.

I say I am ethically opposed to spending this much money on cars and your retort is "y-you're just jealous!" You truly are an imbecile.

>>132939551
There are some aspects of older vehicles that are preferable, but a million dollars of difference? And there are millions of older vehicles with those properties that can be bought for only a few hundred dollars. There is nothing about these vehicles to justify their price tag other than their scarcity and the desire of the buyers to have them.

>>132939530
Try again. Put some effort into it. I'll pitch to you one more time.
"It's a democracy isn't it?"

>>132940018
>It is sinful to spend exorbitant amounts of money on what amount to toys
Where is that in Scripture?

Nobody gives a shit about your feelings - I'm glad you realize you're not making a substantive argument though. Being a self-aware dipshit is better than being a dipshit without self-awareness.

>>132939375
Democracy is unethical.

>>132940688
Why do you think so?

>>132936909
I agree to an extent. Honestly, true communism would be best, but it is impossible to achieve due to mans fallen nature and sin.

>>132936909
Special ethics are different than general ethics retard. One is relative and arbitrary and the other is only important because of consequences.

>>132940742
Using violence to force people to comply with mandates they don't agree to is un-Christian. Democracy is the attempted infliction of the will of some on the will of others via violence.

>>132936909
Those prices only impress plebs who envy the collectors. Those collectors preserve pieces of automotive history Billy Sue would park in a field behind his trailer and leave to rot.

Not in alignment with superstition? Piss off. I don't bend the knee to imaginary friends designed for the sole purpose of exalting man over men far more than mere money can ever do.

>>132940797
The only way to get away from consumerism on any level at this point is to bomb ourselves back to an anarcho-primitivist stone age

>>132940640
"He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again."
Proverbs 19:17

I think this one is the most succinct and relevant to this thread.

>>132940742
Democracy is rule by the majority.
The majority have no incentive to vote based on ethics rather than self interest. Most don't even have a moral compass to speak of.

>>132941113
What does currency have to do with being compassionate to people who aren't as well off?
Why does someone buying something equate to sinning against the poor? It doesn't. That is a philosophically untenable position.

>>132937792
>my friend
Stfu nigga you sound like a fag

>>132941155
I tend to agree with this. It's not a sophisticated enough system. Representative democracies are a bit better, but as any of us can see they have their issues as well.

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>>132941291
>What does currency have to do with being compassionate to people who aren't as well off?

>What does money have to do with helping the poor?

>>132941675
The Samaritan didn't give a penny to the man he found robbed on the road.
You realize that?

>>132936909
How is this any different than the buying and selling of any commodity? Please tell me this is bait.

>>132938399

I agree, the private car collections of rich jewish parasites should be seized and put on a museum for the people to enjoy.

>>132941841
Nah OP is just a commie boy trying to demonstrate the theory of Marx and Ricardo's "labor power" n shieeet

>>132941841
It's different because the price is far out of proportion to the reasonable value based on what is generally regarded as good sense.
>but anon, you are merely arguing from an arbitrary set of values!
Correct. A set of values I choose to believe in and defend. And which I believe increase the common good when followed properly.

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>>132936909
No. I love my cheap third world labour and brown, rootless consumer base replacement.

I actually agree. Modesty and charity on a personal and spiritual level should be valued, art should be religious in purpose. However, the govt should of course not be involved

>>132942053
I am not in favor of communism because I believe capitalism is part of human nature. But I believe it should be controlled. Spending this much money on something that is near-worthless when detached from vanity is a harmful human impulse that we should attempt to limit, just as we try to limit other impulses which have a negative impact on society such as wanton sex or wasteful gluttony.

>>132941082
No. We can correct the course. It's not that bad yet. But there is no master stroke. It will be a complicated, long affair. The biggest issue right now is simply admitting there is an issue in the first place. It's overwhelming, and as you say at first glance the instinct is to say "burn it all, start over". But we can't do that.

>>132936909

I'd be more offended if it was some shitty riced up honda civic.

The car in your example is literally a work of art.

>>132936909
>add up total value of classic cars purchased at auction yearly
>add up total amount of extra money (over a cheaper version) spent yearly on iphones, apple products, starbucks, whole foods groceries, "artisanal" anything, etc. etc.

Which one do you think is more, and therefore more unethical?

The only people that would bitch about dudes spending their money on cars are people that see said dudes as non-progressives (and they probably mostly are) while they sip their 18 dollar bottle of bone broth they got at new seasons while they order a 92 dollar black lives matter shirt on their 700 dollar iphone.

>>132940973
>Semantics

>>132943050
Liberals drink DA BONE BROTH?

>>132936909
Get a life you filthy wannabe nazi.

All that millions spent STILL goes into the economy.

>>132936909
>no expensive things allowed
Boring communist faggot.

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>>132942890
>It's not that bad yet.
Nah it's perfectly fine. Just two generations of fuckhead, hardcore, broke as fuck consumers who only worry about instant gratification and have had all long term goals like
>Having a family
>Buying a house
>Starting a business
bred out of them.

>>132936909
Shut up you poor fag.

>>132938399
>And if the cars are lost in exchange for a better future I am willing to take that loss.
Maybe you are willing to take that loss but I'm not. Looks like you're just going to have to get over it.

>>132936909

Back to >>>/o/ with this jealous meme shit.

>>132943050
By far the latter, and I feel the same way about it.

>The only people that would bitch about dudes spending their money on cars are people that see said dudes as non-progressives (and they probably mostly are) while they sip their 18 dollar bottle of bone broth they got at new seasons while they order a 92 dollar black lives matter shirt on their 700 dollar iphone.
Stereotyping makes you look foolish.

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>>132943143
>into the economy.

>>132939375
If men outnumbered women, couldn't they just vote away rape laws? It's a democracy isn't it?

>>132942697
What you say is correct but it's futile to say because we are human and even stuff like gluttony can be in benefit to another. The

>>132936909
>Classic cars can sell for over a million dollars at the Barrett Jackson auction. Isn't that.. a bit unethical?
there's nothing inherently unethical about it.

people put their lives into designing these cars and they sell for millions so no surprise there.

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>>132936909

>>132936909
expain to me which other mechanism we should use to distribute extremely rare goods? Lottery?

>>132943349
>the point

You missed it entirely

>>132943260
You and I are here, anon. And there are others like us.

My own gut feeling: in the next 50 years civilians in the 1st world will be so disenchanted with technology there will be a spiritual awakening, rather than the popular conception of religions going extinct. I look forward to seeing what new denominations and customs spring up.

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>>132937338
>basqiuat
I didn't know what that was until a google him. Graffiti has become art

>>132943407
They could, but they choose not to because they subscribe to a system of beliefs which sees that as unethical. Perhaps they think about their friends, wives, daughters, sisters, and mothers? About people other than themselves.

We are Men. Not animals.

OP
You're not alone. I am a simple working man who has lost the respect he once held for the majority of his friends due to the excesses of hedonism and materialism. I would pass the same judgement on all my countrymen of I was the sort of twat who pretended to know what occurs in the hearts and minds of millions of people I have not met.

>>132940018
He blew you the fuck out of the water. You're either a woman or a faggot for feeling instead of thinking. Objective facts> feelings everyday.

whole lot of angry kids itt who probably take the bus

>>132943524
Your point being that iphone sales do more harm to the common good than classic cars? I agree with that. But they are merely two examples of the same issue, and as you can see I have gotten more (you)s with the more easily understood car example.

>>132943497
>explain to me which other mechanism we should use to distribute extremely rare goods?

The current mechanism is fine, it is the attitudes of those participating which need to change. It is not an issue of law. It's an issue of society and our reaction to behavior which ought to be seen as unfavorable, but is currently not. What do you do about it? Well, public shaming is pretty direct, but also effective. When you see small examples of it call that person out on it.

>>132943981
>>132944043
What pathetically transparent samefagging. But I suppose I should expect nothing less from a tripfag.

I apologize to everyone else in the thread for not doing the right thing and ignoring him from the start.

>>132936909
Ethically, I feel you should mind your own fucking business and not worry about what other people do with their own property.

>>132936909
I agree with you op but you chose a bad example. Million dollar ice cream with gold flakes on it would of made your point, literally throwing away your money.

>>132945255
That's too low-hanging of fruit. I chose the car because of the emotional attachment people have to them.

>>132938860
Nigga, let me clue you in on "value".
Years ago when I was a young freshman in college one of my economics professors said something as part of a larger lecture that's always stuck with me; "you're net worth represents your value to society."
I don't care if Mommy and Daddy love you, if you help old bags cross the street, if you don't have and spend money you are worthless to society as a whole.
No one gives a fuck about your feelings about what folks want to buy and how much they're willing to spend. They're pumping the blood that feeds the fucking world. Like it or not, that's the way it is.
Go write a fantasy novel about how in the future we exchange daisies for happiness and we're all sustained by the mutual love we all share.
You worthless piece of shit.

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>>132944773
Bad advice. Will you "mind your business" when it comes time for you to feed yourself or your family and find all the property has been bought up before you got there?

>>132936909

>extreme capitalism

What did (((they))) mean by this?

>>132936909
>It is not in alignment with the values of Christianit

damn right. your religion get btfo. go dream about heaven.

you lose. go whine more christcuck

>>132946071
>"you're net worth represents your value to society."
Laughably vulgar statement. Doubly so that you quote it towards me as if it were some kind of proverb when I have taken a completely opposite stance in the thread from the beginning. My entire argument here is that the belief system you are saying is dominant (and it may eventually become so) is abhorrent and needs to be avoided for the sake of our good.

>"only rich people matter"
Shaking my damned head here.

>>132944112
The point is that it's relative and not absolute. Absolute in this sense doesn't work, cause you could drill down over and where does it end?

Do you need a 50k care when you could get a 20k car that does the same? A 10k car? A 2k car? Do you need 2000 calories a day when you could get by on 1800? WHY AREN'T YOU DONATING YOUR OTHER 200 CALORIES TO CHARITY ANON?!

>>132936909
>capitolism sucks
wow what a compelling argument

>>132944112
Also the example I posted is infinitely more relevant to your point because a classic car is an investment, that can gain value over time. Iphones and artisan waters are throwaway items that are quite literally a waste of money beyond group membership and social status.

>>132948817
There is a line that must be drawn somewhere. Where? They've been discussing it since antiquity. It's where you choose to put it. And I choose to put million dollar vanity cars firmly past it.

This "it's all arbitrary" line of discussion is so elementary. Come on, we are better than this. We can think.

>>132949078
>because a classic car is an investment, that can gain value over time
If the investment goes towards something other than the pursuit of more cars and other cartoonishly price inflated items. Does it?

>>132936909
How is it that you haven't figured out that all religions are just huge networking circles? It's the spiritual equivalent of people who passively follow a sports team so they can make idle conversation.

>>132936909
i think if i had a 1954 gullwing i would literally live in it somehow.

Marxists belong in a gas chamber

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>>132936909
>capitalism should be viewed with disgust by society
said every loser fag begging for $15hr with no skills.

>>132949395
Then your argument is shit and your line is shit, because, as I said, there is a ridiculously larger amount of money spent every year on 30 dollar eyeliner brushes at ulta than there is on old corvettes. Every single one of those eyeliner brushes will end up in a landfill. It is much less likely than a million dollar car will. The car is at the very least a piece of history.

>>132939375
No its technically a republic you stupid nigger.

>>132949570
>buy car
>put in garage/car museum
>does the car lose value?

Then it's an investment. It is in a sense like buying a painting. Or buying gold. What the investment ultimately "goes towards" is irrelevant. If it is sold at a later date it simply goes back into the owner's net worth.

>>132936909
Fuck off dirty commie

>>132936909
>I don't like thing
>therefore thing is bad

That's not how it works, you fucking retard.

>>132939375
>It's a democracy isn't it?
"and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

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>>132946071
This. Ignore this libtard child. It's been established that his argument is teen angst muh feels about large sums of money, while ignoring the reality of how economics works. also, asking for logical responses for an illogical(emotional) question.

>>132938494
it is in a way lost if there is market sinkhole like the OP’s example.. money keeps pouring into it. There is no guarantee that it also gets out and is then used for other stuff.
The mere existence of that extravagant "sink hole" should be unwelcome. Best case scenario, it postpones the investment in better stuff.

>>132936909
OP is a commie faggot

Nice subtle attempt to build resentment against the wealthy and successful, leftypol. But fuck off. Attacking the wealthy and successful doesn't help the poor losers.

>>132946071
pretty sure respect is on par with large amounts of money. Respect can’t be bought but respected people still decide on huge things.
to sum up, you’re an idiot for not seeing the bigger picture and only focusing on one field - economics

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>>132951077
>"and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

"Amen!"

>>132936909
Literally no definition of the word vulgar applies to the way you're using it.

Faggot

>>132940991
>Democracy is the attempted infliction of the will of some on the will of others via violence.
Communism is the forced infliction of the will of some on the will of others via violence

>>132938399
>if someone else's property were lost in exchange for a better future
>I am willing to take that loss
>for the betterment of society
You can't demand that people give up their hard earned money to pay for other people's needs. It is virtuous to give charity BECAUSE there is no obligation to do so. If you do not have the freedom to spend your money as you see fit, but because someone else obliges you to, then there is no virtue. Do you not see how your thinking leads to communism?

I'm just happy that as I take a brief scan of the car auction picture, I didn't see one stinky, wooly, greasy nigger head. They were probably out back with their shine rags.

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>>132936909
>Championing globalist economics over freedom and agency
>Is a Commie

Checks out

Why are you spending money on anything but food and basic shelter anon? Don't you know you're needlessly wasting capital that could be used to feed and clothe the poor?

Altruism that isn't chosen is slavery.

Read a little:
http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic1146995.files/Session%2013%20-%20Nov%2027/Judith%20Jarvis%20Thomson%20-%20A%20Defense%20of%20Abortion.pdf

>>132936909
Have you ever looked at the Vatican?
Soros? Rockefellers? rothchilds?
But you are worried about a car auction?

COOMUNISTIC GASLIGHTIING

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>all these carcucks

It seems that I am one of the few that agree with you OP. Most disagree with you because of "communism" or their love of cars.

>>132937338
>>132937706
>>132938005
>>132938494
What about this fine painting here? It's handmade, and the creator put a lot of thought into it.

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Why do so many people hate this guy?

He funds worthy projects, so what? Drumpf called him out because he's jealous he has more money. Stupid poorfag. It's his money, so he can spend it on whatever he wants. If there's a demand for certain (((charities))), let them be suplied with millions of dollars you filthy commie scum. There's nothing we can do to change it and if you make progress in doing so that's immoral.

>>132956998
He does not spend the money out of charity, rather for his agenda.

>>132938399
>I find this unethical.
This moral argument is irrational. You don't have the authority to impose your ethical beliefs on the rest of humanity. You come off as whining about something that is out of your control.

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>>132936909
What, exactly, is wrong for buying/selling something that is either extremely rare or one of a kind for a large amount of money?

I genuinely do not understand how this could possibly upset you. Are you also mad that gold sells for a long of money?
How about hydrogen?

Yes, fascism is a much better system than capitalism. I thought everybody on /pol/ agreed with this except for "muh John Galt" faggots.

>>132936909
I agree and disagree with you.

I disagree in theory but agree in practice, lemme explain.

In a perfect society where there are no problems and people are just itching to blow their money on shit then I think there is nothing wrong wasting a huge amount of cash on frivolities.

But in the disgusting shithole the western world has become, both out of external corruption and the natural decay due to time, wasting money on such useless crap is just burying your head in the sand and diving deep into hedonistic pleasures the same way an alcoholic with a shitty home life dives into booze.

>>132936909
Fucking scalpers

>>132946071
>Years ago when I was a young freshman in college one of my economics professors said something as part of a larger lecture that's always stuck with me; "you're net worth represents your value to society."

Like, even if that's true that doesn't mean it's right, net worth to society only depends on the type of society you live in, "your genetics represents your value to society" or "Your lineage represents your value to society". May as well be the same thing, seeing as someone born into billions of dollars basically got rewarded for being born.

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>>132936909
Vulgar is latin for "common," btw. The only thing vulgar about $1M cars are all the niggers watching this show who can only fantasize about saving enough money one day to buy nice things, because they will spend it on stuff like cable TV subscriptions.

>>132939375
Kys. There are deplorable aspects of our society and muhh cabidalizm n consumerizm sure but you don't have to involve yourself in them and I can assure you it's infinitely better than the alternative. I remember being 16..

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I'm going to auction this off. Blond hair and blue eyes - very rare. The creators are dead now and this is the last one left still in good condition. This is a piece of history you don't want to miss out on ;)

Reply with your offer.

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>>132936909
It doesn't get a free pass

Shut the fuck up

>>132936909
>capitalism
>vulgar
>common good
>a direct resultant of the market as a thought-out, coherent decision

my my, you have a terminal case.

Capitalism works through indirect benefit. A welfare system, educational/vocational system, medical system, communications system, if not privately run for profit are derived from the taxes of private citizenry. I fully support a few taxes running our public works, such as police, and the like, but you have to be fucking out of your noggin to believe that private citizens have a moral obligation to substitute a welfare system, or any other system above, for the "common good."

That is the problem with you people, you fail to understand the difference between the individual and a whole. I, individually, get to choose my philanthropy. You, the poor faggot, are crying because you don't get my tax break.

Fuck you, you filthy fucking commie. I'm gonna go bathe in dosh now, cya bitch.

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>>132959194
Are you attempting to compare selling cars to selling children?...

Oy Fucking Vey

>>132959194
I want her to have a good home and a nice life

Communism will win.

>>132940255
The owners have no responsibility to justify their purchase to you.

This all boils down to the tired and childish liberal belief that they have the right to tell other people how to spend their money.

>>132959194
Why do you have an image of a little girl in a swimsuit downloaded on your PC?

>>132936909
Are you fucking retarded?

Look at the crowd. What do you see? Old men. Old men who have worked their entire fucking lives, paid taxes, and most likely put their kids through school.

Old men who probably have quite a bit of cash saved up from all that effort and now want to spend it on something that truly interests them. A fancy classic car. If you think 1 mil is a lot, you're out of your fucking mind. You can easily buy a million dollar car at their age assuming you put a small percentage of your income into it for like 14 or so years.

Fuck you OP. Go smoke a bong and get your hair turned into dreadlocks.

>give me your money, I deserve it and you don't!
When will these threads stop. Probably when op gets his first job.

>>132946071
I've found, the louder someone cries about money other people have, and cry about capitalism, are weak bottom rung people who have no control over their own lives and destinies, are incapable of providing for themselves, and are at heart deeply jealous of the wealth generating powers of their betters, so they try to create a crab pot to bring those people down. THese people, in caveman terms , are the ones who should have been drowned at birth, and are the ones sitting around the cave crying because the hunters get the best parts of the meal.
Without fail, when I meet people who are "socialists", the type of people who start threads like this, they're almost always weak, skinny losers who have no real talent at anything, who have made a lifestyle out of whining and complaining, all the while being kept alive by a system that allows their survival, and demanding a system that would fail if based on their ability to produce for the whole/state.
That's why I ignore them. There are hunters, there are gatherers, and then there are those who should have been left to die outside the cave. OP is the third type.

>>132936909

>Yes, I understand that. It is with their rights to do so.

>But it is also vulgar to do so.

You went full retard. I understand that it's their money and they can do what they want with it! BUT they shouldn't buy what they want because I think it's "unethical" and "vulgar" they should buy what I think is right for them!

If you were rich (roughly had enough to buy one of those cars without any worries) what "ethical" things would you waste it on? You sure you won't just buy things you're interested in / want? Neck yourself commie

>>132954468
Perhaps the ability for the rich to spend their money stupidly is indicative that they're not smart enough to have earned their money in the first place, i.e. that their money wasn't "earned" in a way that should ethically constitute earning, and thus that how it is dictated what who "earns" is flawed.

A stupid person could sell a stupid thing to stupid people, become rich, and spend their money stupidly. This isn't inherently justified by capitalism. It is possible an economic system based on selfishness and human desire, is flawed.