Christians, it’s time to give up your religion

>>132927767
addressing some common counterarguments:
Mark 13:30

>”this generation” refers to the generation at the time of the apocalypse, not the generation of the people he was speaking to.
If there was any chance that that was the case, then Bible translators would translate it as “that generation” or “the generation of that time”, not “this generation”. Furthermore, its tautological to say “some people alive in the time of the apocalypse will live to see the apocalypse”, and one must wonder why Jesus would ever waste his breath to say such a thing.

>”generation” is translated from the Greek “genea” which at the time was sometimes used to mean “race” instead of “generation”.
This is true, however from the context it is clear that Jesus was really referring to his generation, not his race. No one at the time thought that Jews were in danger of going entirely extinct, so it wouldn’t even be an interesting prediction for Jesus to make.

>>132927767
>>132927925
addressing some common counterarguments:
Matthew 10:23

>Jesus’ followers died before visiting every town, and upon their death, they went to heaven, where presumably they could witness the second coming immediately, since heaven exists outside of space and time.
This is a very disingenuous interpretation, as in context it is clear that Jesus is advising his followers on how to /survive/ persecution until the apocalypse. Furthermore, it is clear from accounts of Jesus’ ascension (among other passages) that believers of the time did not believe that heaven existed outside of space and time, instead believing that heaven was a literal place located above the Earth.

>You are being too literal here. All Jesus is really saying is that you will not fulfill your mission of converting all people to Christianity before the end times, i.e. you will miss some towns.
No, the reason for going from town to town in this passage is not mainly to convert, it is to flee persecution.

>>132927767
delete this

>>132927767
>>132928054
addressing some common couterarguments:
Luke 9:27

>Jesus’ followers did not “taste death” because Jesus conquered death by dying and resurrecting. Instead of “tasting death” they tasted eternal life.
This argument is very disingenuous and is clearly not what Jesus is saying. To pass into any sort of afterlife, one must first die, and therefore “taste death”. A plain and straightforward interpretation of Jesus’ words shows that he is clearly talking about literal physical death here.

>>132927767
>>132928293
addressing some common counterarguments:
general

>You are being too literal. The gospels may inaccurately record certain things from the life of Jesus; you should use them as a theological guide, not as a source of historical evidence for what Jesus did or didn’t do.
If the gospels are not trustworthy or valid as historical evidence for mundane, physically possible events (such as Jesus saying some stuff) then why should I trust them when they claim miracles, such as the resurrection of Jesus? If you believe such large errors have entered the gospels (particularly the gospel of Mark, as it is the earliest one we have) then you have no reason to believe any of their miracle claims either.

>The “coming of the Son of Man” and/or the “coming of the kingdom of God” referred to in these passages did in fact happen ~2000 years ago, but do not refer to an apocalyptic event. They refer either to the resurrection of Jesus, the transfiguration of Jesus, or the establishment of his Church on Earth.
The surrounding context of these passages contradicts this interpretation. For example, the Mark passage has Jesus “coming in cloudswith great power and glory.” The only event believed in by Christians which remotely fits this description is the Transfiguration, and even then it is a stretch, as Jesus is already there; he wasn’t “coming”.

>>132927767
>posts a cuck image
>thinks he can shake my faith

>>132927767
>>132928388

More passages that mention an early apocalypse that I didn’t bother discussing:
>Matthew 24:34 and Luke 21:32 (synoptic to Mark 13:30)
>Revelation 1:1-3
>Revelation 22:6-12
>2 Thessalonians 2:1-13
>1 Corinthians 7:29-31

Most of these are not very substantial, and just say stuff like the “time is short”. They don’t make specific predictions like the main 3 passages I quoted, so I chose not to discuss them. However, I do still consider them supplementary evidence for my interpretation, particularly the Pauline passages, as they were written very early in the church’s history, suggesting that this belief in an early apocalypse may be traced back to Jesus’ contemporaries.

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>>132927767
>Christians, it’s time to give up your religion

Well it looks like you figured it out. There's no need to come back as you've found the answer. Be on your merry way with your head held high knowing this was a victory for intellectuals everywhere.

>>132928448
The image was just a joke to get people's attention. Honestly I'd rather just make a thread without an image if it were possible. But I doubt I will be shaking anyone's faith tonight. I'm not surprised that a belief system which valorizes belief itself is unshaken by contrary evidence.

>>132928448
>shake my faith
It should strengthen it. Wasn't being Christian all about being a cuck?

>>132927925
>>132928054
I could point out the arguments in your posts, but it would then take ME two full posts. Why would I waste my time and effort on that, especially when you probably realize the loopholes in the arguments you're using right now, hm?

>>132928054
>speculation :the post

>>132927767
Try 8ch's /christian/, I'd love to see you get btfo there instead.

>>132927767
Mark 13:30

This refers to the generation that sees Israel become a nation again. Jesus knew that the Jews would be scattered and one day be returned to Israel.

>Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: Mark 13:28
>So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. Mark 13:29
>Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Mark 13:30

We're right on the cusp of Jesus' return. Next time use Google

>>132929396
It's your own choice whether or not to engage my arguments, but I hope you do. I also hope you believe me when I tell you that I am not aware of "loopholes" in my arguments.

>>132927767
>Mark 13:30 (shortly after describing the apocalypse and “the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory”)
What was "Enola Gay" and "Fat Man"?

>>132927767
You're a nigger.
>Truly I tell you, this generationwill certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
That means that the signs that we are told to look for that signal the end times will all happen within a lifetime.
>When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
Notice "towns of Israel". That means you need to stay within the realm of your people. It isn't telling muslims to invade christian lands. In fact none of it is meant for nonChristians. Nonbelievers have no business following any of Christ's teachings. By following parts of the Bible in this way they only serve to corrupt it.
>Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God
Can't know for sure what is meant by this. We're talking about the son of God so it isn't out of the question for Him to have entrusted someone to live amongst us this whole time.
It could also be speaking directly to those who would later read the words. We're talking about the divine here. He has performed miracles before.

>>132929295
Is OP implying Christians should give up their faith because it permits or encourages racial mixing?

What is then the difference with other religions or atheists?

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>>132927767
>another edgy atheist

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>>132927767

>>132929959
>permits or encourages racial mixing
Niggers are beasts of the field. To mix with them is bestiality and a sin.

>>132927767
https://youtu.be/tFtFUX10oZw

IF YOU ARE NOT CHRISTIAN AND EUROPEAN

YOU ARE A

RACE TRAITOR
A
C
E

T
R
A
I
T
O
R

>>132929739
Israel was founded in 1948, so you don't have much time left. But I suppose you'd agree with that, so that isn't really an argument against you.

However, keep in mind that Jesus didn't write the gospel of Mark (or anything in the Bible.) This is allegedly a speech Jesus gave to a group of disciples that was then written down by Mark much later. Why would Jesus bother saying any of this to a group of people who would not even need this information, because it would all happen centuries after their deaths?

>>132927767
I will rather die than give up. No larp.

>>132929837
I don't understand... are you saying the "Son of Man" is a nuclear bomb?

Sage this bullshit, it's shareblue or antifa or whatever opposition it is, it's a distraction and intended to make you feel bad and fuck with you

>>132929925
>the end times will all happen within a lifetime.
I agree with that interpretation, specifically within a lifetime of the people to whom he is speaking.

>stay with your own people blah blah blah
You seem distracted, I'm not talking about immigration. (Also, you seem to be under the impression that I'm muslim? I assure you, I am not.) What it says in that passage is that the persecuted Christians who are the audience of Christ and, who are living in that time, will not go through all the towns of Israel before the second coming.

>literally believes that someone is alive who is ~2000 years old
All I can do is laugh.

>>132929959
No, don't look at the image, just read the text. Honestly I regret even posting the image because its just distracting people.

FYI my understanding of that issue is that Christianity makes no comment one way or another on race-mixing. Neither do most old religions, simply because it wasn't a common enough phenomenon to warrant commenting on.

>>132930801
>shareblue or antifa or whatever
nah, just a fedora

>intended to make you feel bad and fuck with you
I don't want you to feel bad, I just want to convince you that Christianity is clearly false, as my OP says. I doubt many will change their minds though.

>>132931299
Christ is still alive.
Has been since Resurrection.
>he doesn't think God is capable of miracles
I assume you're an athiest.

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>>132930622

I wouldn't have it any other way.

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>>132927767

Good work OP, have some more countermemetic materials.

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>>132927767
You're right, it's time to revert back to the Norse religions.

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>>132932031

Anything except Judaism, Islam, Mormonism or Scientology would be an improvement honestly. Probably there will always be a common "people's religion" but it doesn't have to be Abrahamic garbage.

>>132931750
Yes, I'm an atheist. But Christ doesn't count, as he did taste death, even if he resurrected later.

I'm willing to entertain the notion of God performing miracles, even if I don't believe in it. But for what purpose would God preserve some dude for 2000+ years? Just to fulfill some arbitrary prophesy that he made himself? Use Occam's razor here.

>>132931877
>Strawman
>Strawman
>Strawman
>Strawman
>Strawman
Atheism in a nutshell

>>132932200

It isn't a straw man, though. You can check for yourself.

1. Claims world is ending imminently (1 John 2:18, Matthew 10:23, Matthew 16:28, Matthew 24:34)
2. Wants you to sell or give away your belongings (Luke 14:33, Matthew 19:21, Luke 18:22)
3. Wants you to cut off family who interfere, and leave your home/job to follow him (Matt. 10:35-37, Luke 14:26, Matthew 19:29)
4. Unverifiable reward if you believe (Heaven, i.e. the carrot)
5. Unverifiable punishment if you disbelieve (Hell, i.e. the stick)
6. Sabotages the critical thinking faculties you might otherwise use to remove it (Proverbs 3:5, 2 Corinthians 5:7, Proverbs 14:12, Proverbs 28:26)
7. Invisible trickster character who fabricates apparent evidence to the contrary in order to lead you astray from the true path
8. Targets children and the emotionally/financially vulnerable for recruitment (sunday schools, youth group, teacher led prayer, prison ministries, third world missions)

>>132931920
i don't know what

Imminent end of the world:

1 John 2:18
Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

Matthew 16:27-28
For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.

Matthew 24:34
Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

Matthew 10:23
When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Sell your belongings:

Luke 14:33
"In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples."

Matthew 19:21
Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Luke 12:33
“Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.”

Luke 18:22
When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Please note that only Luke 18:22 and Matthew 19:21 concern the story of Jesus advising the wealthy young man about the difficulty of entering heaven.

These verses are included for completeness, and to acknowledge the existence of this story because the most common objection I receive to the claim that Jesus required followers to sell their belongings is that I *must* be talking about this particular story and misunderstanding the message it conveys.

However in Luke 12:33 and Luke 14:33 Jesus is not speaking to that man but to a crowd following him, and in 14:33 he specifically says that those who do not give up everything they have **cannot** be his disciples. It is therefore not a recommendation but a requirement.

Cut off family members who try to stop you:

Luke 14:26
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple."

Matt. 10:35-37
“For I have come to turn a man against his father a daughter against her mother a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law---a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.”

Matthew 19:29
And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

Do not apply critical thought to doctrine:

Proverbs 3:5
“Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding”

2 Corinthians 5:7
“For we live by faith, not by sight.”

Proverbs 14:12
“There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death.”

Proverbs 28:26
“Those who trust in themselves are fools, but those who walk in wisdom are kept safe.”

>>132932560
>>132932591
you do realize most of this shit has been rewritten and we have shifted multiple times right?

>>132932758

Yes, and? The meaning is still consistent. You cannot find for me any verses in the Bible which say the opposite: That only those who reject Christ will be saved for example, or that you should love your family more than Christ.

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>>132932456
Christianity has evolved moron, most modern Christians limit themselves to the teachings of Jesus.
Atheists are such strawman retards.

>>132932529
Are you accusing Christ of enriching himself with the goods of the believers?

>>132933013
>Christianity has evolved moron

I'm aware of that. All cults change as they grow into religions. Burdensome requirements like giving up your belongings are useful for rendering new converts materially dependent upon the group early on, so it's harder to leave, but such policies are also strong ammo for critics. It makes good sense to jettison policies like this once you have enough members that they're no longer necessary.

>>132933062

No, how did you get that from what I wrote? The intention was to make new converts dependent upon the group so that it's difficult to leave if they begin to experience doubts.

He was not after wealth, but everlasting worship.

>>132932560
Such are the requirements of the apostolate, since no one can serve two masters.

>>132933409

Very good, that's the "in-religion" rationale which Christians take at face value. But the real purpose is to make new converts dependent upon the group so that it's difficult to leave if they begin to experience doubts.

Similarly, in Scientology there is a policy called disconnection, where if your family members try to extricate you from the church, you are to cut them out of your life.

The "in-religion" reason for this, which Scientologists take at face value, is that their family members are suppressive persons who are low on the tone scale and trying to inhibit their movement up the bridge to happiness, Scientology's version of spiritual growth.

But because you and I are outside of Scientology, we can see what this policy is actually intended to accomplish

>>132927767
I am Christian because it's a good way to live and supplies a very rich cultural foundation for my family, not because it all makes perfect sense. I spent 16 years as an atheist, it's empty and devoid of meaning and easily boiled down to living as a satanist and requires much more effort to live with morality.

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While Christianity today no longer includes many of those practices (like requiring new converts to sell their stuff, rendering them materially dependent on the group and less likely to leave if they experience doubts) that's because once a cult grows to the point where membership numbers are sufficient to guarantee longterm survival, policies that were necessary to retain converts early on can be jettisoned (as they make tempting ammo for critics anyways)

Mormonism is much younger than Christianity, and so has not yet jettisoned many of the cult-like practices, which is why the general Christian public often identifies it as a cult. Scientology is younger than Mormonism and accordingly is still an obvious, full blown cult.

Despite their doctrinal differences, religions of this type can always be identified by the formula they share. In the same way that, even if nobody receives the Nigerian prince 419 email anymore, they can still tell that when a Dutch dignitary being exiled "needs help moving his fortune out of the country" and "some of it can be yours for a relatively slight transfer fee", it's still the same type of scam but with changed details.

Likewise, for every religion which uses this formula there is an unverifiable future reward if you join and don't leave (Heaven, being carried away by UFOs, whatever) an unverifiable punishment if you don't join or ever leave (left behind by UFOs as the Earth is destroyed, sent to Hell, etc.) a short term time limit to add urgency, both to convert yourself and to go evangelize so you can save as many other people as possible before "the end", testimonials from people who supposedly prayed and were healed, received a financial windfall or whatever else, etc. etc. etc.

It can be difficult or impossible for people in the religion to see it in this way. Aspects of how it's designed help put it as far beyond doubt as possible such that it's the absolute last institution that a believer would ever suspect as fraudulent.

As a result, describing it as an unusually successful end of the world cult will sound to them either like crazy talk or a deliberate attempt to be hurtful. They will see the verses supplied above as being misconstrued, because there is an "in-religion" rationale for each of them which the true believer feels is the actual meaning.

For instance, in Scientology there is a disconnection policy which urges members to cut off family members who are trying to extricate them from the church. We all know why. But the reason they give, which members take at face value, is that being around people low on the tone scale will inhibit their movement up the bridge, the Scientologist equivalent of spiritual growth.

So it goes for the Biblical verses I supplied. Someone still on the inside will perceive, interpret, and feel completely differently about them than a skeptic, even while being able to identify the true purpose of the exact same practices in religions they are not a part of. You can only see what stuff like that's really intended for from the outside.

>>132933747

Realize, this is also why many Mormons remain Mormon. Are they right to? What about Muslims who remain in Islam for that reason?

>>132933747
So really you're just an atheist who's a "cultural Christian", kind of like those Jews who go to bar mitzvahs and stuff but don't really believe in God. Or am I misrepresenting you?

>>132932502
Many early Christians indeed believed that the coming was near. Because even the converts wanted a triumphant, classic messiah, just like the jews.

The apocalyptic tone of the bible increases in times of persecution. He is talking about the end of the old world, the destruction of the temple, and the beginning of the new era.

>>132934103

Indeed, but there is a deeper practical purpose to the apocalyptic elements of Abrahamic religion, with respect to motivating conversion and evangelism.

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>>132927767
no.

>>132933334
Ever lasting worship? Living in the most absolute poverty? Preaching the good news to the lowest classes? Yeah it sounds plausible.

>>132934103
I believe that your characterization of the motive for the apocalyptic tone is essentially correct. Apocalypse was a message of hope and justice in a time of persecution. But was it true? Did Jesus really say those things, and were they all fulfilled?

>>132934426

The world is littered with statues and monuments to men whose strongest desire was to be forever remembered as heroes and visionaries. It is absolutely a common human desire.

I also do not believe Jesus expected to die prematurely. The Bible was written a few decades after his death by people who sincerely believed in his claims, so naturally it was written as if he did.

>>132927767
If they intended to say that the end time was within the first generation of believers' lifetimes, why bother with the revelations that cover literally thousands of years.

Do you even think before you think? Do you even breath before you think?

>>132934883
>why bother with the revelations that cover literally thousands of years.

What are you talking about? Where does it say thousands of years?

>>132927767
This was fulfilled through the transfiguration of Jesus in the mountain when he took some of the disciples with him.

>(Matthew 16:28) Truly I say to YOU that there are some of those standing here that will not taste death at all until first they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.”

6 days later...

>(Matthew 17:1, 2) Six days later Jesus took Peter and James and John his brother along and brought them up into a lofty mountain by themselves. 2And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone as the sun, and his outer garments became brilliant as the light.

Both Mark and Luke also linked Jesus’ comment about the Kingdom with the account of the transfiguration. (Mark 9:1-8; Luke 9:27-36) Jesus’ coming in Kingdom power was demonstrated in his transfiguration, his appearing in glory in the presence of the three apostles.

Peter verifies this understanding by speaking of “the power and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ” with regard to his witnessing Jesus’ transfiguration.

>(2 Peter 1:16-18) No, it was not by following artfully contrived false stories that we acquainted YOU with the power and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, but it was by having become eyewitnesses of his magnificence. 17For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when words such as these were borne to him by the magnificent glory: “This is my son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved.” 18Yes, these words we heard borne from heaven while we were with him in the holy mountain.

It was fulfilled in the mountain through the transfiguration

>>132933013
>catholic has blonde hair and blue eyes
>even though most catholics are shitskins, and most atheists are white people
really makes you think...

>>132932031
How the fuck you gonna revert back to something you know barely anything about?

>>132927767
Jesus is real.

>>132935108
Go read it, illiterate. Maybe then your mouth shit won't be as foul.

wait, God's still a thing in 2017?

>>132935124
>This was fulfilled through the transfiguration of Jesus in the mountain when he took some of the disciples with him.

No it wasn't. The transfiguration did not include God appearing in the cloud with angels, judging all men according to their deeds, as Matthew 16:27-28 describes:

"For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

This is clearly talking about the second coming.

>>132934057
No I'm not an atheist anymore. But I am not really going to attempt an explanation here and now. You can't make an intellectual argument for faith when faith is founded on very personal matters.

>>132934456
I think they were.

Even his closest apostles were unable to understand the real meaning of his words. They were ordinary people without the required insight to understand His universal teachings. Always driven to believe in a messianic liberator in the traditional way.

>>132930523
>Why would Jesus bother saying any of this to a group of people who would not even need this information, because it would all happen centuries after their deaths?
because they'd pass the information onto their followers just like they ended up doing.

>>132927767
Fucking hell that is hot. I'd love to see Christ chan getting fucked by a big monstrous 12 inch black cock in all her holes.

>>132935458

Cool ad hom. I did read it, cover to cover, several times while attending a private Christian school. Morning Bible readings and reflection essays were required.

The predictions you are referring to are not said anywhere to take place over thousands of years. On the contrary Revelations describes the fall of Rome, and early Christians believed Christ would return in their lifetimes.

>>132935501
Man, the Son of Man comes in the spiritual kingdom. It doesn't mean that THE DAY is going to come in that generation.

I agree that they believed that was imminent.

>>132936727

Do you also agree that early Christianity, according to Christ's own stated requirements of followers, is what we would today identify as an end of the world cult?

>>132936838


Right Wing politics are concerned with the long-term survival of Civilization

Christianity is only concerned with personal salvation to become part of a nebulous afterlife for which no evidence exists, and for which this world needs to be sacrificed, which is best expressed in the way early christians like Martin of Tours refused to fight enemies of their nations, insofar killing in this world could cost them heaven

When Jesus says "if they take your coat, let them have your shirt as well", "do not resist evil", "I have come to turn a man against his own household", "if you don't hate your self and your own family you can't follow me", "love your enemies, pray for your persecutors", "the meek will inherit the Earth", "those that wanna die will live", "blessed are those the persecuted, for they will be my Kingdom", "do not save treasures for tomorrow", "carry your cross so that you can receive eternal reward", "Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you'll have treasure in heaven", "it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye than for the rich to enter Heaven", "Woe to you who are well fed, Woe to you who laugh, for you will mourn and weep"...

... he is not kidding, or meaning the opposite, but actually setting down a morality where the world is a lie and only the afterlife is the real deal, so destroying your life in this world, "carrying your cross" as he says, is completely logical

/pol/ "christians" seem to believe Jesus actually meant the OPPOSITE of all that, and that Jesus wants you to defend your family, that Jesus wants you to kill your enemies, to become prosperous, well-fed and rich in this world, and to avoid persecution and death!

Only a person that does not actually believe in the Heaven for the persecuted, the meek, and the martyred would actually re-interpret Christianity as a cult of earthly power which declares "the strong shall inherit the Earth", "my kingdom is of this world" and "you must destroy the enemies of your nation"

Only some one that just wanna use Christianity as an empty shell devoid of any true religious promises would claim that Paul and Peter misinterpreted Jesus when they submitted to their enemies and died to them while praying for them, instead of fighting the romans back and establishing a crusader kingdom, thing that one would expect them to do if Jesus meant "be a fighter and impose your will on your enemies" when he said "love your enemies and lend all they need to them without expecting anything in return"

But using Christianity as a shell devoid of any religious promises simply allows its poisonous morality to survive into the next generation.

You can tell your children that Jesus wanted them to be earthly warriors because "I didn't come to bring peace", but you can't stop them from reading the rest of the paragraph and realizing what Jesus wanted is for them to put christian morality above the good-being of their own families.

You can tell your children that Jesus wanted them to be earthly warriors because "Buy a sword", but you can't stop them from reading the next chapter and realizing that Jesus stopped Peter from using the sword to fight and defeat the romans, and reprimanded him for misunderstanding, all while asking him to carry his own cross (Peter, fully realizing that Jesus meant all the stuff about embracing death and his kingdom was not of this world, that angelic chariots were not going to slay his enemies and bring him victory, realized he was doomed, and would then deny Jesus 3 times)

You can tell your children that Jesus wanted them to be earthly warriors because ""Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces", but you can't stop them from reading the rest of the paragraph and realizing that Jesus was asking them, not to destroy their enemies, but to not put in risk their own moral position by criticizing others. You may want them to believe that Jesus, in the middle of a speech about not judging other people and sharing, suddenly decided that speak against the muslims that didn't even exist back then!

That is not going to fly.

Sooner or later, your "strict catholic crusader" state will be reformed into liberalism, because the Gospel will still exist, because your children, like Peter, will realize that Jesus meant it when he said "you are to be persecuted and martyred for me", that Jesus didn't say "you will live in a stable and powerful civilization, free of oppresion and death, thanks to me".

> inb4 Turning the other cheek does not mean pacifism. Slapping someone's face with the back of your hand was an insult for a very long time.

no it wasn't. that shit was made up by radical black-nationalist liberal theologist Walter Wink to justify social rebellion in South Africa.

There are NO sources to it outside his books

Christianity made Europe a mess...

That "conversion" of Europe involved a lot of killing of whites and destruction of history and art, even worse, it involved killing scientists that went through the Middle Ages, so much that Islam got ahead of Europe during the Middle Ages

> bu... but the surviving scientists were christians and even talked well of the kike Jesus!!!

see: http://www.pewforum.org/2009/11/05/scientists-and-belief/
> According to the poll, just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power.

Now that not being a christian is not a death sentence, most scientists don't give a fuck about pretending to worship a kike

Certainly, if Christianity was pro-Science, it would not be anti-world, and it would have not allowed Islam to get ahead of Europe and almost cuck it completely during the Middle Ages

I mean really: FUCKING ISLAM GOT AHEAD OF EUROPE

Is that the religion that you claim "made Europe"?

You believe in an era where the Islamic World was ahead of Europe, so much that our word for complex mathematics is ALGEBRA, an arab word!

But then, Jesus the Kike promised that.

He said clearly that, while men would love their enemies, men would have their enemies in their own household, so it is no wonder europeans were killing each other until well

Christianity can't cure a disease it caused

Pagan Romans were fundamentally free of the chains of jewish power, so much that they almost exterminated them all in their own homeland after the rebellion of Bar Kocheba

It would be Christian Europe that would fall under permanent jewish influence, with the jewish-controlled churches banning europeans from financing and loaning, giving them as a monopoly to jews

By the modern era, Christians were so throughly judaized, that they started to actively wish for the restoration of Israel so that the end of the world would finally come around and their civilization would die!

And why would it be otherwise?

A religion which such obsession with death, with promise is the end of the world, is fundamentally a time-bomb in the basement of a civilization

Do you really believe that the early christians that embraced their martyrhood to the lions said to themselves "I am dying to this lion so that the white race can survive, fuck jews!" or any such anachronistic reinterpretation that you have decided to give to their death cult?

Jews are a very successful group that has become successful by monopolising finances through ethnic networking and promoting ideologies that demonize their own actions so that the goyim won't copy their success

so they promote anti-nationalistic Communism among the goyim while endorsing Zionism for themselves

that is why they promoted universalist Christianity among the goyim while keeping Judaism for themselves, and including it as the Old Testament within Christianity, so that they would remain the most important people of the world.

So there is no real contradiction once you understand how Jews work: Do as I say (Christianity), not as I do (Judaism, Old Testament).

then christians wonder why Jews dominate them!

Whatever Christians would not wish others to do to them, they do not to others. And they comfort their oppressors and make them their friends; they do good to their enemies…. Through love towards their oppressors, they persuade them to become Christians.
—The Apology of Aristides 15

A soldier of the civil authority must be taught not to kill men and to refuse to do so if he is commanded, and to refuse to take an oath. If he is unwilling to comply, he must be rejected for baptism. A military commander or civic magistrate must resign or be rejected. If a believer seeks to become a soldier, he must be rejected, for he has despised God.

—Hippolytus of Rome

How can a man be master of another's life, if he is not even master of his own? Hence he ought to be poor in spirit, and look at Him who for our sake became poor of His own will; let him consider that we are all equal by nature, and not exalt himself impertinently against his own race[...]

—Gregory of Nyssa, Homilies on the Beatitudes

>>132927767
Real or not i took an oath to follow the church, what type of man would i be if i took back one of the biggest promises i made in my life? Plus it makes R*aches mad that im one.

If Christianity is a religion of earthly power, why didn't it save the Western Roman Empire then? Why did Saint Augustine wrote that it was not a christian concern the existence or not of wordly kingdoms?

Why were Christians unable to save even their fucking holy land from the Muslims, if they are the religion of earthly power that you believe they are?

Why is the North Africa now muslim, if it was once christian and roman?

That they didn't manage to screw things completely over was an accident of history, not for lack of trying

and most importantly of all questions, why has Christianity become an enabler of the muslim invasion of Europe, if it is such religion of earthly power and "the strong will inherit the Earth" as you seem to believe?

why are all the christian mainstream churches pro-refugee, if christian doctrine says "hate your enemy, and do not lend to them all they want" instead of the opposite as you claim?

The strange thing is that "christians" like you are a minority within Christianity itself that they claim to represent, with everyone from the Pope to the Anglican Churches to the Protestant Churches actively cucking for the destruction of the West

The Pope literally points to the same verses that I do to justify his doctrine, yet you come here to tell me that he is wrong, and I am wrong, and even damn Jesus and paul were wrong tho, because some medieval crusader decided to recreate christianity as a earthly cult of power in order to sack Constantinople!

OP must have studied "Christianity" by listening to Mormons. Not only is your pseudo-interpretation incorrect your "common counter arguments" are so hollow they're worthless. Enjoy the burn you blasphemous asshole (OP), you deserve it.

>>132936838
He stated absolute requirements for a moment when the world was going to be destroyed (the destruction of the jewish world). And it was.

>>132937516

are you calling early christians heretics?

i mean really, they did follow those commandments

> if you actually follow the instructions of your prophet you are an heretic

this is what /pol/ christians actually believe

>>132935501
I know that you are just trying to look intellectual in front of everyone so you can feel morally superior and if what I say is true I just denied you that so you will deny it all yourself by being bias. This is obvious by the fact that you didn't even acknowledge the elephant in the room:

>(2 Peter 1:16-18) No, it was not by following artfully contrived false stories that we acquainted YOU with the power and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, but it was by having become eyewitnesses of his magnificence. 17For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when words such as these were borne to him by the magnificent glory: “This is my son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved.” 18Yes, these words we heard borne from heaven while we were with him in the holy mountain.

John alludes to seeing Jesus coming in his Kingdom as well when he says:

>(John 1:14) So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth.

We also know this because of Jesus saying "SOME WHO ARE STANDING HERE WILL NOT TASTE DEATH.."". That was meant only for the Disciples to see.

What you also fail to understand...

>The Son of man is destined to come in the glory of his Father with his angels

That "glory" was the transfiguration itself. You can't see God and live.

>(Exodus 33:20) “You are not able to see my face, because no man may see me and yet live.”

Then Jehovah said

Exodus 33:21-23 - 21And Jehovah said further: “... 22And it has to occur that while my glory is passing by I must place you in a hole in the rock, and I must put my palm over you as a screen until I have passed by. 23... But my face may not be seen.”

That transfiguration REPRESENTED God, the angels, and the Kingdom. Most of all was God's voice being manifest.

>>132937516
Care to elaborate? What counterarguments would you use instead?

>>132936993
>/pol/ "christians" seem to believe Jesus actually meant the OPPOSITE of all that, and that Jesus wants you to defend your family, that Jesus wants you to kill your enemies, to become prosperous, well-fed and rich in this world, and to avoid persecution and death!

Let me clarify that all that things are perfectly fine.

>>132938070

They are perfectly fine if you wanna behave like a normal Roman person of the first century, and Jesus is just another name for Jupiter for you, not a radical jewish prophet that declared poverty, suffering and pain virtues

>>132927767
Everyone, time to become Mormon
>>132184691


And OP, since the Jews hated Jesus (despite Jesus being a Jew himself), clearly he was onto something and we should follow Him

>>132927767
also btw guys OP is D&Cing, don't play the game

>>132938316
>since the Jews hated Jesus (despite Jesus being a Jew himself), clearly he was onto something and we should follow Him


Literally all the followers of Jesus, and Jesus himself were kikes.

Among his followers there were many zealots, the most radical jews of them all, that wanted wars against Rome

But sure, he was "le anti-semite non-kike that kikes hated" right?

Now you are going to talk about how he disagreed with pharisees or whatever.

But why would the pharisees be discussing mosaic law with a non-jew?

never mind!

What exactly did he denounce the pharisees for that makes him not a kike? Have you actually read the Gospel?

Can you point to a single value that Jesus denounced that wasn't valid?

Because the denounciations of Jesus were idiotic, insane, even marxist

There he denounces the pharisees for wanting to punish a slut! (Jesus didnt like slut shaming, quite liberal if you ask me!)

There he denounces the rich pharisees and promises the earth to the meek and the poor! (... and marxist)

There he denounces the pharisees for wanting to live, instead of embracing death like him!

There he denounces them over a disagreement on how Mosaic Law is applied! (but Jesus was not a Jew I swear!!!)

You blindly may say "he disagreed with the kikes" as if that was something we needed to applaud!

Muslims are hated by Jews as well, but Jews are smart enough to use them as a tool. The same way they use the insane anti-morality of Christianity to corrupt the ancient world and give themselves a privileged financial spot!

But if Jews don't like the own poison they created, that means that we shall drink it, according to you!

wtf I guess I love ISIS now!

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>>132938396
>under 1 minute response time
wew lad

>>132937256
>(John 18:36) Jesus answered: “My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source.”

>(James 4:4) Adulteresses, do YOU not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God.

>(1 John 2:15) Do not be loving either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him;

What many fail to know is that Jesus and God are not in the agenda of saving "The West" nor saving empires. They have no involvement in the world and today's politics, social movements, and political lobbying. Any so-called Christian that is involved in politics cannot be friends with God. God is not intending on saving the world(human society) he intends on destroying it. He's going to bring Armageddon and bring destruction to all the world. Including the west itself.

>>132938551

> lets post memes instead of arguments xD

by all means, if you believe that Jesus meant the opposite of everything he said, why even be christian?

>>132927767
You do this too much Spielbergo

>>132927767

Why do atheists or whatever you're always use misrepresentations or come up with arguments that how been debunked 100's before?

Is your mission to spread disinformation? A google search and you entire argument would be debunked.

Two things:
>The bible is a book more than 1500 years old, translated from multiple languages.
>Mistranslations happen.

In Greek the word "Kingdom" translates to "Royal Splendour" to put that into context that would mean some of them would see Jesus in his true form before tasting death.

At the very beginning of Matthew 17 ("The Transfiguration) The disciples see God in his true form.

>>132938299
A normal person, in a normal life, has to deal with a lot of poverty, suffering and pain. But it doesn't necessarily have a spiritual meaning.

But, take the anti materialist pill, because it's the one who connects better with our divine nature.

>>132927925

>If there was any chance that that was the case, then Bible translators would translate it as “that generation” or “the generation of that time”, not “this generation”. Furthermore, its tautological to say “some people alive in the time of the apocalypse will live to see the apocalypse”, and one must wonder why Jesus would ever waste his breath to say such a thing.

He said this generation because he was talking about that generation. There was no need to make a distinction as he was talking about future events in the whole context of the quote. I mean, the only need for it is so people like you can't use them without context, but anyone that puts even a little effort trying to understand it will know better.

>No, the reason for going from town to town in this passage is not mainly to convert, it is to flee persecution.

No, they go there to talk about the kingdom of heaven(as told by jesus in 10:07), but if they face persecution they flee to another one. You are just focusing on a single word and ignoring the whole context behind said quote.

And he is talking about christians in general, as he is, again, talking about future events, not things that are happening right at the time.

>This is a very disingenuous interpretation, as in context it is clear that Jesus is advising his followers on how to /survive/ persecution until the apocalypse.

He is telling them to flee from persecution when they meet it, but he is sending them to preach in his name.

>>132927767
Those words were written by a bunch of guys with no church or establishment behind them, only the spoken truth. The eternal kingdom of God on earth was established within a generation from when the words were written.

>>132939154
>At the very beginning of Matthew 17 ("The Transfiguration) The disciples see God in his true form.

Well done,>>132937891
however...

>(Exodus 33:20) “You are not able to see my face, because no man may see me and yet live.”

>Exodus 33:21-23 - 21And Jehovah said further: “... 22And it has to occur that while my glory is passing by I must place you in a hole in the rock, and I must put my palm over you as a screen until I have passed by. 23... But my face may not be seen.”

>(John 6:46) Not that any man has seen the Father, except he who is from God; this one has seen the Father.

>(1 John 4:12) At no time has anyone beheld God. If we continue loving one another, God remains in us and his love is made perfect in us.

You can't see God in his true form because it would kill you. He is pure raw power. Moses had to hide in a cave up above and be covered with reeds or he would have gone blind like seeing a lit welding torch flash. You can't see God in his true form because God is bigger than the entire universe.

>>132939284

you may want to water down what Jesus said to some sort of realism, but the anti-realism of Jesus was explicit

the poor will inherit the earth, those that cry will laugh / those that laugh will cry, and literally every other verse where he talks about treasures of this world make it quite explicit

>>132939655
>only the spoken truth
only if you redefine truth as lies and nonsense

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>>132928666
>Those trips

Did jehova just expose himself as the devil?

>>132927925

>Furthermore, its tautological to say “some people alive in the time of the apocalypse will live to see the apocalypse”, and one must wonder why Jesus would ever waste his breath to say such a thing.

the point is that the same generation will witness all those things that Jesus listed. all those things aren't occurring over many 100s of years, they're over a short period (a 7 year period to be precise).

Praise Kek

>>132927767
get lost you retard kike degenerate poster

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>>132931976
get lost already kike kiddie fiddler

>>132927925
>This is true, however from the context it is clear that Jesus was really referring to his generation, not his race.

Not possible because when Jesus spoke to the literal generation of Jews of his time it was always in a negative way:

>(Luke 9:41) In response Jesus said: “O faithless and twisted generation, how long must I continue with YOU and put up with YOU? Lead your son over here.”

>(Luke 11:32) The men of Nin′e·veh will rise in the judgment with this generation and will condemn it; because they repented at what Jo′nah preached; but, look! something more than Jo′nah is here.

>(Luke 17:25) First, however, he must undergo many sufferings and be rejected by this generation.

>(Matthew 12:39) In reply he said to them: “A wicked and adulterous generation keeps on seeking for a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Jo′nah the prophet.

>(Mark 8:38) For whoever becomes ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of man will also be ashamed of him when he arrives in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.”

Peter spoke of that same generation of Jews as a corrupt generation:

>(Acts 2:40) And with many other words he bore thorough witness and kept exhorting them, saying: “Get saved from this crooked generation.”

The generation that Jesus speaks of is a category of people. This is the future Christian elite that will live long enough to see the end of the world. Right before it ends they will be taken to heaven then Armageddon begins.

>>132927767
No thanks. Get lost. The power of Christ compels you to leave. You need help.

>>132927767
Really makes you think.

>>132941858
Can't wait to see this thread pop up again tomorrow despite op getting BTFO just like all the the shill threads.

Say you tried to convince me, like you have in this thread. wasting all your time typing out those common rebuttals, only to fail.

I will go back to my faith

You can go back to your nothing

>>132941858
You've provided ample evidence that Jesus felt negatively about his generation. But how does that refute OP's interpretation of Mark 13? Isn't it possible that Jesus felt negatively about his generation and also claimed that his generation would witness the second coming?

>>132930320
SHOW YOUR FLAG, JEW