Ayn Rand

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Can you just kill yourself please?

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>>132927164
And let's think why fascism didn't work. Oh yeah, that's it: it worked fine, but the Soviet tards decided to fuck it up with MUH COMMUNISM.

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>>132927911
>>132928139
What is the point of devoting all your time to a cause which:

1) could get you killed
2) limits the number of white chicks who will be willing to give you white kids
3) will almost certainly never achieve its aims?

Alright, your loss I guess. I'll get rich while you waste your time on a fruitless endeavour. I'll have a big white family and you won't.

>>132928842
Who is saying we aren't getting rich and having big white families while also being fascists?

Somebody has to punch commies. If you were genuinely an Objectivist you would be happy that us plebs were keep commies at bay so that you can live your individualist life instead of trying to get people to stop providing commie punching services to you for free.

If everyone acted like you with no regard for the bigger picture the commies would continue their march through the institutions making life more and more hell until we are thanking the commissars for increasing the chocolate ration from 2 pieces to 1 piece.

So either you are a shill trying to blackpill us or you are an idiot who is trying to get people to stop providing you a free service. Either way we shouldn't listen to you.

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>>132927164
Damn straight. She was based. Hated feminists too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vANA3AGs4Dg

>>132927911
you said this in my thread too
bully!

>>132927164
>Therefore you should focus on YOURSELF
As if the needs of mine are not the needs of my people. Fuck civ-nats,

Good goy. Keep reading (((Alisa Rosenbaum))).

>>132929475
I'm not saying you shouldn't punch commies. I'm saying that dreaming of fascism is pointless and that you should focus on your economic development instead.

>>132929923
You're just joking about this on the internet though. You're not actually going to go out there and advocate white nationalism are you? If you are then I could respect you. Like Spencer does. But 99% of people on /pol/ seem to talk about it without having the balls to stand up for it in real life.

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>>132930054
Listen here cyrpto-commie nigger, If you don't realize that ALL of the adversaries she describes in her novels are EXACTLY what /pol/ describes as the sterotypical kike. Kikes exist but Rand is quite literally the most based jew to ever live. I do not exaggerate.

>>132930422
The issue though is that as long as jews work together (or commies for that matter) and whites do not, they will always be able to dominate. As such radical individualism is a recipe for a slow march to communism.

Just leaving out jews for a minute, the communist threat itself requires cooperation among anti-communists to combat their Alinsky tactics.

What got us into this mess was individualist people doing their own thing and not looking at the bigger picture, which allowed the leftists to quietly gain control of all the universities and in general puts leftists in the positions of power which then makes them Randian villians.

Doing nothing is no longer an option, we no longer have the luxury of thinking only for ourselves anymore.

The G20 protests just prove that the commies aren't just going to let us do our own thing.

Cultural Marxists are terrified of Ayn Rand as she represents the American Constution completed; a rejection of the Primordial evil that is Altruism that the US founding fathers lacked. The ONLY thing they lacked. Epistemologically validated, metaphysically defined, and ethically expanded, Objectivism is the greatest threat Commies have ever encountered which is why they cannot even bear to have it discussed as a philosophy.
The dreaded, horrible secret that academic philosophers face (and why they do not even allow the notion of Objectivism as a philosophy) is that Objectivism is not -a- Philosophy but THE Philosophy. Hers holds the particular distinction of being the first ever formulated META-Philosophy. And psudeo-intellectuals the world over are perpetually butthurt over this incontrovertible fact. Including it among their other disaparate half formed, half actualized "philosophies", they find it eats everything it comes into contact with. This disrupts their vested interest in keeping a fanciful salad-esque collection of philosophies to catalog away and do nothing objectively meritous with it on their own terms. Despite what these sorts of people would have to say it isn't Ayn Rand but academia as it stands that is "the joke".
>>132927164
You say these things as if Fascism might be desirable if only their were a fighting chance for it still. No. Fascism is left collective filth and the human mind degrades and fizzles under it. Simply put Objectivist NatCap Meritocracy is the 'Reality 1:1' ideology.

>>132927164
Ayn Rand was great until I realized I am a loser and my potential isn't much beyond a toilet brush.

>>132927164
she's a kike and a man is nothing without his volk

>>132928842
And your daughters will be nigger chasing whores and sons tranny betas, cause you're too busy with your empire and the nanny let them watch jewtube unsupervised. But hey, at least you have your 'wealth'.

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>>132927164
>Fascism failed
Wrong.

>>132929768
That's fucking awesome. Just watched this too. Fucking based. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpzDdTrw5II

>>132930054
I judge people by their acts. One example - NatSocs hate Jews for encouraging mass immigration. But I hate ANYBODY who encourages mass immigration.

>>132931024
I didn't say in the OP that whites shouldn't work together. I just said that fascism probably won't happen, and is probably a pointless thing to pursue.

I think white interest groups are absolutely inevitable, just like black and Asian and Latino interest groups. Especially as we approach the point where whites are no longer majorities, they will HAVE to stand up for themselves against discrimination.

>>132931470
Ayn Rand is like by lots of people who have become very, very rich. And you're just a shitposter on /pol/.

>>132931636
I'm not saying you shouldn't stand up for ethnic interests. I am saying that fascism probably won't happen. Engage in political things if you want, but make some fucking paper, nigga.

>>132931702
You'll end up dead because you're pursuing an ideology that will get you killed. Just like it did for lots of KKK members - just like it did for the Nazis. My kids will last generations. You won't even have any because you'll be dead.

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>>132931024
Hoppes physical removal service will be Nationalized. Temporarily. Wouldn't want to keep something like this out of the hands of the citizenry where it belongs for long.

>>132927164
Who? Never heard of her, so she must not be that important and therefore I don't care

>>132933975
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F5nhYo5nx4
Even if you've already read Atlas; check out this audiobook excerpt of Galt's Speech. Christopher Hurt knocks this out of the park. Actually listening to it rather than reading Galt's speech is otherworldly.

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>>132927164
Ayn Rand would have a chapter in pic related dedicated to her if she were slightly more influential.

Objectivisim is a jewish cult. Pic related stresses that jewish movements tend to encourage individuality among gentiles. Read the chapter on Freud and notice the parallels. There's no denying that both Rand and Freud are geniuses, but they're both subversive.

Objectivists are NOT Austrians or Anarchocapitalists.

Jews of the Austrian School such as Mises, Rothbard, and Block have all come out at various points calling Ayn Rand a cult leader.

Watch this if you don't believe it's a cult. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dejVMFLpQuY
I personally believe Rothbard is ourjew and worth listening to, but feel free to disagree with me.

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>>132934374
Hold onto your butt because I'm going to go full autism.

There is a case to be made that Aristotle, Thomas Jefferson, and Ayn Rand are the three greatest individuals to ever walk the face of the earth. Each built off of the previous and Ayn Rand solved the great flaw that the founding fathers did not foresee; Altruism true, evil nature. In creatimg Objectivism she gave civilization itself a fighting chance to not collapse in the way it always has. Babylon fell. Rome fell. If we cannot cure the Marxist poison; America will fall too.

Objectivism is the only possible /final/ redpill.
Libertarianism is incomplete Objectivism. Objectivism without the epistemology.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erytcpYpzRk [Embed]
Cultural Marxists are terrified of Ayn Rand as she represents the American Constution completed; a rejection of the Primordial evil that is Altruism that the US founding fathers lacked. Epistemologically validated, metaphysically defined, and ethically expanded, Objectivism is the greatest threat Commies have ever encountered which is why they cannot even bear to have it discussed as a philosophy.
The dreaded, horrible secret that academic philosophers face is that Objectivism is not -a- Philosophy but THE Philosophy. Hers holds the particular distinction of being the first ever formulated META-Philosophy. And psudeo-intellectuals the world over are perpetually butthurt over this incontrovertible fact. Yes fact, I do not exaggerate. Including it among their other disaparate half formed, half actualized "philosophies", they find it eats everything it comes into contact with. This disrupts their vested interest in keeping a fanciful salad-esque collection of philosophies to catalog away and do nothing objectively meritous with it on their own terms. Despite what these sorts of people would have to say it isn't Ayn Rand but academia as it stands that is "the joke".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uHSv1asFvU

What do we think about this?

>>132935733
What the fuck is this post, it took you that many words and you said barely anything.

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>>132935662
>Objectivisim is a jewish cult.
Objectivisim is the 1:1 philosophy. I yawn at your blatantly leftist talking point.
>Objectivists are NOT Austrians or Anarchocapitalists.
Correct. Why would we be? We are LfCap Minarchists, Ayn Rand all but permanently discredits Anarchism in "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal"
>Ayn Rand a cult leader.
A. she's not and B. even if Objectivism was a cult (heck I'm rabid enough for it) it would be the first good cuot to ever exist by merit of it being the first Meta-philosophy ever formulated.
Ayn Rand and co. is a cult in same way that the founding fathers were called a cult. Ie they're not.

At some point during your tour of philosophy, you’re going to meet Ayn Rand. There’s nothing you can do about it. We all had to go through this, and you’re going to have to go through it too. I intend to make this painful process as easy as possible. Keep in mind that I could be wrong about all this, even though I’m not. But I could be. But I’m not.
Ayn Rand called her bankrupt philosophy “objectivism”, for no sensible reason. Whatever she decided to call it, it’s wall-to-wall trash that no philosopher could possibly take seriously.
As a philosopher beginning your journey, you will feel that, in order to keep your Open-Minded merit badge, you have to entertain her ideas. This is not true. It’s perfectly reasonable to trash an entire ideology if it’s not worth any of your time, especially if it might damage your brain to entertain her arguments even to the minimum degree necessary to determine how stupid they are.
This paragraph is an argumentum ad populum with an adorable side of ad hominem. Please feel free to ignore it, but sometimes the populus is right.
People who admire Rand’s work tend to be mean, nasty people. These same people usually ignore that she was an aggressively pro-choice, sexually liberated atheist who hated Ronald Reagan and libertarians.
Ultimately, although she argued strongly against any sort of welfare state, she was happy enough to collect Social Security and Medicare when she needed it.
Objectivism is an impractical, sociopathic, inhumane, unpopular (among philosophers) collection of dreamworld rants which have no internal coherence and no value. They are no help in advancing our understanding of anything, and have never predicted any kind of real-world behavior anywhere.
“But you haven’t said what Objectivism is, or elucidated any of her actual opinions.”
I know. You’re welcome.

http://whatsthepointofphilosophy.tumblr.com/post/157845738954/rand-pall

>>132936065
I've seen this guy several times in the last few days and I don't know what to think about him. He always shills for her, always has the exact same message of objectivism being *complete*.
>>132935733
>>132936615
I guess I'll respond since I see you everywhere.
Regarding objectivism's cult-like character, have you read Culture of Critique and watched the video I provided?
Regarding its philosophical fundamentals, what do you think of Hoppe's argumentation ethics?
I'll certainly read the book you recommend and maybe I'll get back to you, but in your own words, why is anarchy discredited?

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>>132937227
>Ayn Rand called her bankrupt philosophy “objectivism”, for no sensible reason.
More like the left is butthurt they didn't think of coining it first.

>>132935662
>Pic related stresses that jewish movements tend to encourage individuality among gentiles.
So what do you want to do about that then? Expel the Jews? Murder them? Personally I'm not I want to go that far man. I just want to stop commies, and stand up for white rights.

>>132937227
The translation of this post is "I'm too pathetic to make it in life, to apply myself, to make money, to achieve something, so instead I'll say that people who do so are "mean" and I don't like them".

Leftist whinging bullshit. Are you ever going to grow a pair of testicles my man? Probably not because you come from a country that was cucked by the British for hundreds of years, so much so that you still speak our language and we still have part of your island. Lol.

>>132937645
She probably called it that because it's objectively true. It is objectively true that all human beings are selfish (and we only form groups when we perceive it to benefit us - groups, after all, can stand up to more people than a single person can).

She revealed the objective truth of the fallacy of altruism that nobody else was willing to uncover.

>>132938213
>So what do you want to do about that then? Expel the Jews? Murder them? Personally I'm not I want to go that far man. I just want to stop commies, and stand up for white rights.
Indecision about how to act on it doesn't discredit the fact that these movements exist. Honestly I don't care what they do as long as they're good at what they do, aren't subversive, and don't yield people like Alan Greenspan.
>>132937645
I've very briefly looked at Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal, and this is the closest I've seen.
>Anarchy, as a political concept, is a naive floating abstraction: for all the reasons discussed above, a society without an organized government would be at the mercy of the first criminal who came along and who would precipitate it into the chaos of gang warfare. But the possibility of human immorality is not the only objection to anarchy: even a society whose every member were fully rational and faultlessly moral, could not function in a state of anarchy; it is the need of objective laws and of an arbiter for honest disagreements among men that necessitates the establishment of a government.

This is the same argument that has been addressed all throughout the anarchocapitalist cannon so much that I don't think it's worth it to discuss. What is your familiarity with the anarchocapitalist cannon?

>>132937236
>Regarding objectivism's cult-like character, have you read Culture of Critique and watched the video I provided?
I have previously watched that video but I have not read Culture of Critique. Encapsulate it's most damning injuction against Rand and boil down the essence of it's conclussion.
That video contained alot of the inevitable friction that occurs among Libertarians but at no point did I detect an earth shattering indictment of either her or the cause she caused to spawn. I am such a huge fan of Objectivism that it does not suprise me in the least that it has and can get a bit culty. But it's irrelevant.
>Hoppe's argumentation ethics?
I have yet to complete a book of his, I have only watched videos about him, but I gather that his ethics essentially boil down to an affirmation of Libertarian peace but that our world is not a fair one. And that giving our enemies a fair chance is sometimes a cost that cannot be borne in line with our ideals. Might mist be subordinated to Right but might still exists as a thing we must be preparded to deploy against evil.
Having not actually read Hoppe; is there some detail I am missing?
>Why is anarchy discredited
In her prose about Anarchism is the direct critique in that an organized, orderly society is simply a product that free men wish to buy. That's its argument against the government holding any monopolis whatsoever is a wrote impossibility as the things that a government is supposed to embody it needs said monopoly for it's objective control to remain objective and not be thrust into the subjective influence of whim. She cites the fact that things like the "competing governments" notion is thing that are necessarily put forth by Anarchism. And why they cannot be made workable. A particular well said quote about this of hers escapes me.
I think it may be here. http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/anarchism.html
Fun fact: she never actually uses the word Minarchism but this is, patently, what she is arguing for.

>>132938353
This. Completely and irrefutably this.

>>132940496
>This is the same argument that has been addressed all throughout the anarchocapitalist cannon
Should it not be? Ideas between Rand and other Libertarians are frequenty a case of convergent evolution. Morover I am detecting a (possible) implication that in the dialog of said cannon their exists a affimation of anarchy that Ayn Rand's criticism does not address. If so; please present it. I like him, but Molymeme attempted it in a video once but his argument fell completely flat on it's face.

>>132940998
>Having not actually read Hoppe; is there some detail I am missing?
Hoppe's argument is very roughly that the act of arguing is logically incompatible with the rejection of property rights. Property rights are a tautology in any rational discourse. This is actually pretty similar to what Rand talks about. It's objective or invariant across different individuals, but I'm not yet sure how "objectivist" it is. Here's a quote from Rand's C:TUI again
>The objective theory holds that the good is an aspect of reality in relation to man—and that it must be discovered, not invented, by man. fundamental to an objective theory of values is the question: Of value to whom and for what? An objective theory does not permit context-dropping or "concept-stealing"; it does not permit the separation of "value" from "purpose," of the good from beneficiaries, and of man's actions from reason.
Hoppe's argument fulfills all these criteria.

>Encapsulate it's most damning injuction against Rand
The book doesn't address Rand. It address Boas, Freud, Adorno etc. and it's one of the best cited books I've ever read.
If there's one thing you take away from our conversation, it's that you must read this book.
My only point is that Rand and her circle bears quite a resemblance to Freud and his circle in many ways.

cont.

>>132935933
Jews always Jew. Even when they say with the loudest voice that they are not.

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>>132940998
>>132941799
Found your quote
>A recent variant of anarchistic theory, which is befuddling some of the younger advocates of freedom, is a weird absurdity called "competing governments." Accepting the basic premise of the modern statists—who see no difference between the functions of government and the functions of industry, between force and production, and who advocate government ownership of business—the proponents of "competing governments" take the other side of the same coin and declare that since competition is so beneficial to business, it should also be applied to government Instead of a single, monopolistic government, they declare, there should be a number of different governments in the same geographical
area, competing for the allegiance of individual citizens, with every citizen free to "shop" and to patronize whatever government he chooses.
How is this nonsensical? People already "vote with their feet" and they vote with their dollars too. There is competition among governments in the world today and this is undeniable, although there is a trend towards increasing centralization and monopolization of law.

>it needs said monopoly for it's objective control to remain objective and not be thrust into the subjective influence of whim.
This is false. Arbitration has always existed even in the absence of government. Pic related. All that is necessary is that two parties agree on an arbitrator. The whole system does rely on the fault-tolerance of distributed systems, but this is reliable as we've seen with systems like bitcoin.
I think this video falls short in several ways, but it's close enough and I'm tired. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8pcb4xyCic

I also recommend Rothbard's Ethics Of Liberty which is freely available on mises.org.

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>>132927164
Someone in my family was hooked by Rand for a while. Told me to read her books. I watched the movie instead and it was boring as shit.

>>132940998
>>132944472
Furthermore, if something is objective, why does it need a monopoly?

Untruth always gets weeded out in the free market. Untruth is as objective as truth.

However, intrinsicists and subjectivists DO need a monopoly to maintain their lies. Monopolizing law and enforcement is begging for the state to be compromised by non-objectivists.

>>132927164
>falling for kikery

>>132927164
You realize she wrote fiction.

>>132940496
Why do you have the ancap flag when you say you think objectivism is a Jewish cult? You should have the NSDAP flag with that belief. I thought ancaps just cared about completely free markets, not ethnicity?

>>132927164
I like her ideas and her refutation of leftist ideas, mostly.

Still her idea of utopia isn't practical or pragmatic. Most people could not survive and they'd overthrow and replace the government with something that they could survive in. Same with anarchist ideaology.

Still, she has this sort of perfect crystalline logic and it's great for shitting on commies with if you paraphrase her quotes.

>>132927164
Ayn Rand was a hypocrite who got on the government dole when royalties from her shit books weren't enough to cover the medical treatments for the health problems she gave herself by being a degenerate chain smoker.

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>>132927164
stupid kike bitch

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>>132945333
And nonfiction.

>>132927164
we live in a family society
milton friedman did it best

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>>132945469
Read page 180 in the pic here >>132944472
additional pic related

Also here's a link where Hans Herman Hoppe has invited Jared Taylor to speak.
https://vimeo.com/86857165

Ancapism is very racist because ancapism tries to be realist. Many ancaps try to brush this under the rug. Ancaps are all very aware of the global banking cartel. Never let it be said that we aren't redpilled.

>>132946290
but Chile, anon

>>132929475
>Somebody has to punch commies
So in order to fight an evil, we must adopt their practices.

>>132945489
>hypocrit
Nope. Run into this worthless attack by lefties all the time. Her reclamiing what the government tazed out of her work was not a betrayal of her principles. It was an employment of them. She did not beleive in the moronic notion of martyr oneslef to pay small nods to ones principles.
The amount she got in ss never even approached what was taxed out of her in her lifetime. Nice fucking try.
And while I agree her romanticization and fetish for the act of smoking was fucking lame, why should anyone care wbout it either way other than asshole lefties that want to hurl shit at her?
She liked it because it "was as if man were taming fire at his fingertips". Perfectly in line with her romantic nature.

>>132945473
>Still her idea of utopia
Full stop. "Utopia of Greed" was tounge in cheek. She mocked the egalitariaism of dipshit hippies. Utopias are not possible. In a way they shouldn't be.

>>132946490
I feel sad about my commie friends who hate friedman for whatever happened in chile, he had nothing to do with it but to give advice on how to run the economy, and it worked

>>132927164
Ayn is exceptional. If you are an exceptional person, her writing will resonate with you. If you are mediocre, her writing will scare you. If you are a liberal, you will not have bothered to read anything she wrote and will just assume she is evil.

Of everything she wrote, the one passage that resonates with me the most is from the Fountainhead, when Toomey, after ruining Roark's career, asks Roark what he thinks of him. Roark answers: "But I don't think of you." Now imagine if we all were inspired to have that level of sheer individualism.

>>132938353
Aggggh some groups are formed on genetics and not opinions or interests thus once you're born into this world you have by default become to one of such groups (familes/tribes/nations/races)

faggit

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>>132927164

Nope, she's awful, now go listen to your Rush albums for the millionth time.

I know that Ayn Rand's philosophy is not logically valid. But I do find it interesting that she is so vociferously hated.

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>>132942763
>>132944472
>>132945074
>tfw just got done finishing a just-shy-of-2000 character long replies both criquing and promises to read that one book but then clicked off the page accidentally and lost it all
I'm so mad.
It's been great debating freindo but I'm too devastated to try again.
>inhales
FUCK

>Currently re-reading The Fountainhead
>Toohey is basically a perfect one to one capture of the threat of Cultural Marxisim
>Can be extracted out to show why the world is failing like it is currently
Yeah I think she was onto something

>>132948197
>Now imagine if we all were inspired to have that level of sheer individualism
i dont take your point, could you elaborate?

>>132949066
I've done that before and it sucks but at least you've fleshed out your arguments to yourself. In the end, that's what I value most about this site.

Let's both keep reading and we may see each other again.

>>132949564
I didn't like the Fountainhead as much as Atlas. I had a boner for seeing Toohey get confronted with the full force of reality falling upon his head an shattering everthing he beleived in, with public embarassment but it never got satisfied.

gas yourself

>>132934087
What most the the """libertarian""" right propose on here is two steps from fascism with a capitalist economy. Might as well just do that.
>>132948662
Fuck off Rush is great.

>>132949840
Let me at least redo one part I remember:
>>132944472
>How is this nonsensical? People already "vote with their feet" and they vote with their dollars too
Read further. You stopped way to soon.

>>132949838
Different guy but the exact same quote resonated with me, so let me try to explain

Imagine you are so focused in your personal mission, so determined to be a conduit for the work that you know must be done, that nothing else even registers to you. You get the chance to create this work and it's then ripped away from you. The public at large doesnt understand it and defiles it, you're financially ruined by it, it's all gone.

Then the motherfucker who orchestrated the demise comes in front of you and confronts you. But you don't even care, because this shit doesn't mater, because you've got other great works to do, simply for the sake of the great work.

THAT is sheer individualism

>>132937227

Stop citing Rand's collection of Social Security as some sort of damning piece of evidence. She only claimed what was hers, what she was forced to pay into. It would have been worse for her to just let them keep her investment.

>>132927164

The bitch lived on welfare during her final years. You have no idea what you're talking about.

>>132950111
Yeah I only skimmed. Hey do you frequent /lrg/?

>>132950133
right but is Ayn Rand saying we should all strive to be like that? does she think the world would be a better place if we were all that way?

>>132950296

You are a fucking idiot.

>>132933975
Correct, that was a shitpost! I actually enjoyed her works and am doing alright myself. Keep in mind, generational wealth is hard to maintain, and most squander it by the third one (you can look this up). My point is more along the lines that you will find much more success in a society that isn't corrupted to it's core. Even in atlas shrugged everyone ran and hid in colorado to escape the commies. I'd rather not let things get that far.

>>132950533
The essence of what she argues for is we must follow our own truth, to find the underlying greatness in our human being and to make it manifest in the world.

All else is irrelevant. All defeats are temporary. The only thing that maters is that pursuit of rising to the potential we find in ourselves. The only true loss is if we give up this sacred mission.

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>>132927164
>2016+1
>not seeing the writing on the wall

>>132950296
Read
>>132946834
>>132950206

>>132950449
Yeah. Post my pasta there too. I like these threads the most. NatCsp gen too

>>132950296
You don't understand objectivism or rand if you think collecting welfare is against her principles.

She collected if but I doubt that she lived off it. She got a boatload of royalties most likely as well.

>>132951093
In The Fountainhead Roark is completely willing to take money from Keating but gives it back when Keating tries to use it as leverage

It was pretty clear she was open to the idea of charity as long as that charity was a tool of exalting the self of the receiver and given without pity