Eugenics: science or pseudoscience?

Science In a controlled sense

>>132912939
>Eugenics: science or SUPERSCIENCE

>>132912939

Both; the method is plausible but the actual "best" genetic content is debatable beyond preventing oncogenic shifts/etc

>>132912939
Literally how could it be pseudoscience?
It's artificial selection based on basic, undisputed genetics.

>>132913247

its good practice to learn about something before weighing in on it.

>>132912939
If its pseudoscience, then explain animal husbandry.

>>132913247
>>132913359
Rektxit

>>132913514
>animal husbandry
Not science.

>>132913359
Elaborate.

>>132913514

Breeding livestock and breeding for intelligence/fitness are different by orders of magnitudes.

>Do something on plants and animals
>It works
>Propose applying the principle to people
>"I-Its different!"
The difference is in our heads

>>132913636
>>132913679
Elaborate, because it's been in practice since the begging of human history. What magical barrier seperates the human animal from what applies to animals?

>>132913673

Well you don't really do anything aside from define the term, and the reality is there is anything but an undisputed handful of traits eugenicists would select for. I don't think I need to elaborate further since there's substantial foundational info in genetics/oncology that would need to be explained along the way.

>>132913962
Men are not like animals. Have you ever seen an animal talk? Neither have I...

>tfw the only arguments against Eugenics are Feelings and Racism

There is nothing wrong with removing Autistic and other mentally disabled people.

File: Choze_MonsterRender.png (124KB, 400x575px) Image search: [Google]

124KB, 400x575px

when will I be able to fire a beam?

>>132913989
Even simply selecting for those few undisputed traits would vastly improve the human condition.

>>132914150
Here in Bongland there is a clear physical divide between the plebians and the nobility

The plebs are stocky and hairy, while the nobility are tall, slender and largely hairless

>asking a board full of NEETs too dumb to read a science textbook this question

>>132913962

Animal husbandry seldom involves editing someone's genome, for instance, and even then the selection is fairly crude in comparison. Beyond that it takes generations and generations of breeding to achieve the desired change in a population; the idea of eugenics is that change happens immediately. It's just not as good of an analogy as you think it is.

>>132914170
I'd rather go with robotic augmentation than gene manipulation.

>>132912939
why does everyone conflate eugenics with genocide?
you can still have eugenic policies without having to fire a single bullet

>>132914170
I like you buddy

>>132914150
So are you saying that man has some sort of divine origion? Pretty strange for someone who is most likely an atheist, but I don't mean to assume.

>>132913962
>What magical barrier seperates the human animal from what applies to animals?
I think they mean that gene splicing is much different than letting your best bull fuck all the sows.

>>132914150
Animals can communicate with each other dumbass they have to in order to form organized groups

>>132914281

And what would those be?

>>132914359
Through artificial selection the Russian domesticated the fox in less than 100 years

>>132914150

You are so far beyond retarded the only thing to do is give you a (You) so that you may depart the thread and never bother another living soul again.

Go now, retarded faggot, you have been acknowledged by humanity and may continue your trek back to the basement.

>>132914420
Of course God is extant in the world, that is not in dispute.

>>132914359
Let's limit the discussion simply to breeding, then.
Genetic engineering is not necessary for eugenics to be implemented, so it is a separate, albeit related, question.

Nobody actually thinks it to be pseudoscience, all of it's been proven, they just use that word to in place of muh feels, the only "argument" against it.

>>132912939
Hitler type eugenics is too slow, it takes too many generations. Human genetic engineering, however, is very promising

>>132912939
Pseudoscience would be psychology.

>>132914420
Im no atheist no.

>>132912939
if you want to look at how eugenics works op, I suggest you look into horse and dog breeding. Eugenics IS science but weather or not humans are capable of producing anything not shit with it for quality of life of animals is so hit and miss we take our best breeds and ruin them with inbreeding.

File: 1484044615394.gif (859KB, 2970x2483px) Image search: [Google]

859KB, 2970x2483px

Science

File: domestication-of-the-banana.jpg (273KB, 1536x1633px) Image search: [Google]

273KB, 1536x1633px

>>132912939
Clearly a pseudoscience. We all know that genetics don't have any effect on traits, and that an offspring of any one species is as likely to have any trait present in the species as any other member, regardless of the traits of it's progenitors.

>>132914569
I know, I am no atheist. But I don't discount selective breeding and eugenics if done ethically without harm to the living organism, like introducing a hostile species to it's native habitat.

File: 1484274713042.jpg (105KB, 731x682px) Image search: [Google]

105KB, 731x682px

Facts are racist.

>>132913247
The only part of it that would be pseudoscience is the idea that it is all you need to create the ideal man. You can neglect the nurture on top of the nature.

>>132912939
the only reason why 'black bulls' exist is because of eugenics you, stupid nigger

>>132914619

It's absolutely necessary to call it eugenics. I don't know what you're trying to say. Why shift the argument towards that when it's more primitive than extant technologies?

File: 1439189330482.png (793KB, 1080x3566px) Image search: [Google]

793KB, 1080x3566px

Was Charles Darwin a scientist? Then this topic is settled with this one pic.

>No continuum.

>>132912939

>only letting strongest and healthiest reproduce could somehow possible be jewed into a pseudoscience

Literally how. It's one of the most basic, instinctual things there is.

>>132914495
For you and your fantasies, probably penis size.

>>132914657
DO YOU REALLY WANT THE JEWS TO BE ABLE TO EDIT YOUR CHILDREN'S GENOME.

sure at first it won't be forced, but eventually it will, and with the usually removing diseases they could edit other things.

File: colored folk.jpg (90KB, 770x590px) Image search: [Google]

90KB, 770x590px

Nobody wants to be with the 92% of the population that are brown. They want the 8% world-wide White genetics because that sets them apart.

>>132914959
Because we can establish that breeding healthy people together is more likely to produce healthy offspring than breeding unhealthy people together.
Moreover, you can select for any genetic trait which you prefer.
That is the foundation of eugenics, and that makes eugenics scientific. By classifying our core topics of discussion narrowly, we can build a solid foundation on which to further discuss other related topics.

File: nationaltranshumanism.png (957KB, 1000x1744px) Image search: [Google]

957KB, 1000x1744px

>>132912939
Transhumanism would be more efficient than eugenics by several orders of magnitude.

>>132915058

Preventing oncogenic shifts is much simpler than doing something like manipulating eye color. Cancer can be caused by a point mutation at a single vector while eye color has many different contributing vectors. Genetic Engineering likely won't ever happen at the level you see in sci fi movies because of how complex the interactions between different proteins/enzymes in your body really is.

File: transhumanism.jpg (65KB, 640x640px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 640x640px

>>132915352
Here is how transhumanism ends. Have you ever read the 5th wave, nb4 written by a Jew, yes it is and it's a good look at how the Jew thinks.

>>132915461
>ever
That's foolish to say.
I'll agree that it is practically impossible within our lifetimes, though.

>>132915286

That isn't necessarily true, though, and that's caveman-tier understanding of what we're talking about here. There are aspects of eugenics, such as the implementation of eugenics, that have scientific basis, however it's pseudoscience in that you can't actually quantify what an ideal is. (and you haven't attempted to because you don't appreciate how meaningless "more healthy" is when you're talking about something as broad as genetic engineering)

>>132915658

Why do I care about your uninformed opinion on this? It will never be cost effective to do the analysis that goes along with a "sandbox" approach to genetic engineering. In your lifetime yoh will absolutely see genetic engineering grabbing a foothold in medicine, though.

>>132914836
It's a phenomenon. Literally synonymous with evolution. It's like saying you have an evolution policy. Very scientific, but very subjective. You die!

>>132915058
They already did. It's Hapa-ning!

>>132915798
I haven't attempted a classification because that's a very complex issue. But if we let there be some set of genes such that they manifest as a set of unspecified traits which actually do define a "healthy" individual, then we can work from there.
You and I both agree that this thread is not the place to hash out exactly the meaning of the word "healthy" as it relates to every conceivable genetic trait, but I'm sure we can agree that perhaps there is some valid interpretation of health.

>>132913247
Because it involves such control over so many unknowns and is tied to the question of what makes an "ideal" person.

>>132916117
There is enormous potential for a massive market to spring up around aesthetic trait selection. Cost effectiveness relies only on the profit you can generate from doing that analysis. As technology advances, it is likely that the analysis itself will become cheaper. As the sheer number of living humans increases, the potential profits also increase. It seems clear that at some point, performing the analysis even for trivial applications of genetic engineering will become highly cost effective.

>>132912939
It's a force of nature.

>>132916518

Stop with the circular talk. I can tell you're used to being the one to explain things to be people, your friends or whatever, but what you're saying is hypothetical and meaningless. This isn't the type of issue you can understand with five minutes of googling.

You're talking about figuring out which traits are "more favorable" than others, you're not tslking about "ideal traits"

Let the animal husbandry metaphor go already

>>132912939
Of course it's science. You want a better world, get rid of the shit people and bring in better ones. Works every time. Countries that got rid of their savages (US, Canads) have nice things today. Countries that didn't (Mexico and points south) don't.

Climate change crankery? That's pseudoscience.

>>132912939
Genetic engineering is superior to eugenics.

>>132913514
Breeding sheep for wool quality or dogs for hunting skill is more straightforward than breeding humans for a complex trait like intelligence. That's not even going into the ethics of arranging human pairs and declaring one trait more "worthy" of propagation.

>>132914158
Until you accidentally a ton of potentially valuable people. Individuals on the autism spectrum are much more likely to have perfect pitch, and many of them are intelligent and functional.

>>132914528
Only that this has been proven wrong many times. Cherry picked images and preconceptions aren't science

>>132917532

Who needs perfect pitch if you can't groove though?

File: oogabooga.jpg (48KB, 846x468px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 846x468px

>>132917305
Not really, ooga booga cave man invents something, ooga booga cave woman sees he is eating more than the lets say retarded ooga booga cavemen, he reproduces while they do not, in simple terms.

>>132916971
No need for projection here, buddy. This is just a thread on an anonymous image board; you don't need to get defensive.

Your focus seems to solely be on how to define ideal traits, and not whether it is possible to select for a suite of traits once it has been decided that it is ideal.
Because I'm focusing on the mere possibility of being able to artificially select for those traits, and you are talking about something entirely different, we're coming to an impasse. I can understand that you've got a different interest in eugenics than my own—one that's more strictly philosophical and political.
I was trying to approach this from a scientific perspective, which would require that I make certain assumptions that you weren't comfortable making. Can you look at what I've been saying from that perspective? Once we've nailed down that artificial selection is feasible, then we can get into the philosophical and political issue of how to define "ideal."

Also, this is simply animal husbandry applied to humans. There is no metaphor there.

Genetic science is the scientific part. The application of that knowledge to intentionally create organisms with certain traits would be Eugenics and makes it more analogous to an engineer applying his knowledge of physical science to build a certain structure.

>>132917707

That's a child's understanding of how selection works.

>>132917821
That's the point. It's so simple a retard could understand it.

>>132914846
>literacy is genetic
Interestingly enough, Equatorial Guinea, which supposedly has an average IQ of 60, has one of the continent's highest child literacy rates.

Eugenics are merely the results of Epigenetics.

Epigenetics is a very real form of science involving understanding protein systhesis, genetic markers, exterior influence, reaction curves, and gene termination.

>>132917622
Skulls of different races are somehow cherry picked?

>>132914992
Define strongest and fittest. Would the slightly low-watt bulb who wins triathlons be considered better than the diabetic musical genius who writes and performs despite having a hereditary condition that could seriously do damage?

>>132917765

We're at an impasse because you're not talking about eugenics/genetic engineering and seem to be ignoring where I've acknowledged numerous times that, yes, it's possible to artificially edit someone's genome. I've also clearly stated that there is no genetic ideal in any scientific/philosophical sense. Health is very arbitrary to define, and I think a philosophical discussion of what "health" means is mostly useless. I think for logistical and ethical reasons that you will never see true "sandbox" genetic engineering. I mean, for starters, when does it stop being your child?

>>132912939
eugenics programs of the past had pseudoscientific elements

>>132916986
Actually, the population loss in much of Latin America was historically a lot bigger than that in North America.

>>132917305
>That's not even going into the ethics of arranging human pairs and declaring one trait more "worthy" of propagation.
That's the only sticking point of eugenics. Otherwise it's pretty easy.

>>132918972

The only sticking points figuring it all out soup to nuts?

File: miscegenation.jpg (81KB, 925x512px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 925x512px

>>132918758
A lot more breeding amongst the native population and the spanish portuguese as well.

Brainpower is the most important resource.
There should be genius sperm banks everywhere.
Everyone should be desperate to have the smartest children they can.
One can only dream/hope this becomes the future.

>>132919082
>soup to nuts?
wut

>>132912939
Few moths ever die to fire

>>132919181

You have internet you can figure it out.

>>132919331
I don't particularly care to. Your colloquialism is stupid.

File: Eutelegenisis.jpg (46KB, 590x350px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 590x350px

>>132913636
>animal husbandry
>Not science.
lol you are dumb.
Selectively bred super plants and super animals are the reason why advanced human civilization is possible.

The next step for human civilization is super humans. genius sperm donors can accomplish this rather easily, because sperm is an abundant and effective resource.

>>132914359
>the idea of eugenics is that change happens immediately.
Says who?

>>132919518

Well eugenics outside the context of genetic engineering is silly, friend.

File: Eutelegenisis.png (453KB, 766x942px) Image search: [Google]

453KB, 766x942px

Here's an old article about Eutelegenisis if anybody is interested. it's sperm donor eugenics.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2985446/?page=1

File: giant panda skull.jpg (955KB, 2704x2004px) Image search: [Google]

955KB, 2704x2004px

is there anything more hilarious than people who study paleontology? I mean the guy's an expert in dinosaur cloaca, studying animals that are extinct long ago and to make theories up of what they ate and shit

there's just something incredibly funny about it, lacking self awareness, like the whole thing is a sham and you guys know jack shit about how those things lived just by speculating after looking at fucking bones.

Can you even extrapolate what a Panda eats just by looking at its skull?

File: lamarck.png (91KB, 437x251px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 437x251px

>>132919518
Says Jean-Baptiste Lamarck.

>>132912939
Nature itself is eugenics in action. The fact it is claimed as "undesirable" for humans by (((certain people))) shows they don't have our best interest at heart.
>you breed healthy livestock and remove the sick and diseased ones
>you hunt the slow, old or sickly animals and leave the healthy and strong to reproduce
>you crossbreed plants to produce the most nutritious ones
>you can't do any of this with humans because muh feels and muh nazis

>>132919999

Kek

>>132919803
>Can you even extrapolate what a Panda eats just by looking at its skull?
You literally can. Are you being serious right now?

Weird as fuck honestly. What, is hating Jews too mainstream for you now? You have to pick a fight with paleontologists of all things?

>>132912939
Just obsolete.
There's literally zero reason for eugenics now that direct genetic engineering is possible.

>>132915639
>in the process destroy any purpose humanity had left and must face a future where actions have no reason and life has no meaning so you can only float in the eternal agony your own misguided trust in technology has brought upon you and pray for a death that can never come to the immortal
Suffering is just a chemical reaction in the brain. I see no reason why you couldn't modify the brain in some way in order to eliminate the aforementioned suffering. Even if it didn't work, you could still probably commit suicide.

>>132920938

t. Juilliard trained brane Doctor

Yeah let's just start messing with their NT titre, what could go wrong?

>>132919999
This illustration didn't happen overnight either.
Many prehistoric trees were very tall, and only grew their leaves at the top to reach the sunlight over a dense forest.

Over millenia, the giraffes with slightly longer necks could eat more than the shorter ones, who probably grazed.
No giraffe decided anything. It's just the ones that could eat more could also reproduce more, and replace the ones with slower reproduction rates.

>>132920938
You don't want to eliminate suffering though. It's a natural indication that something in the environment is harmful, and that the organism should do its best to move away.

File: Grizzly skull.jpg (27KB, 550x387px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 550x387px

>>132920239
You can't, its teeth are pretty damn similar to the ones of a omnivore. I'm not hating on anything, just calling a spade a spade. Its eye position is also characteristic of a predator, so if we are going to look at bones to draw conclusions to everything this creature does, you're going to get fucked.

In many scientific circles what goes on is more hocus pocus than anything, yeah let's speculate how some creature lived, what it ate and how were its mating rituals just by looking at the bones, top notch science there mate. Some guy who studies the semen of ants has more relevance than this speculative masturbation that is paleontology.

In fact many people who are scientificists, ie those who worship science, are oblivious to the fact science has its own limits, things we can't experiment in lab and so many things that are limitations to science as a whole.

>>132912939
>Naw! We're developing new DNA which makes us heat resistant!
Chances are whoever made this cartoon is a retarded creationist that thinks evolution works how it is depicted in Pokemon.

>>132914170
You could start a company in USA and fire a beaner.

>>132921157

>Brazil
>let's call a spade a spade

Kek

File: ylydulyukl.png (1MB, 610x954px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 610x954px

>>132912939
Scientists had a better understanding of human biological diversity a century ago.

File: africaneatinghabits.png (2MB, 626x2871px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 626x2871px

>>132921429

File: 1479337214696.jpg (370KB, 733x1024px) Image search: [Google]

370KB, 733x1024px

You mean, should we ever put in place a system that mandates who breeds who? Absolutely not.

>>132912939
Aborting downs syndrome kids is eugenic and ideal for society. It makes no sense, fuck ethics just abort retards.

>>132921806
http://www57.zippyshare.com/v/5KD92iKv/file.html

File: nope.jpg (34KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 600x600px

>>132922909

File: erheraher.png (132KB, 241x363px) Image search: [Google]

132KB, 241x363px

>>132923327
It's just a PDF book you paranoid fuck.

I mean, like, selective breeding works. This is inarguable. Just look at all the domestication humans have done.

That said, it's a bad idea. Civilization is only held together by the unspoken contract that people will at least somewhat selflessly contribute to society so long as society does more good than harm doesn't become a personal threat. If society impedes on the right of individuals to live and breed then there is a very good reason not to contribute to civilization anymore and the whole ball of yarn unravels.

Plus those in power will just define their own genes to be the best, so it's yet another way the powerful can exploit the less powerful for no other reason than personal gain.

And besides, humanity has succeeded more because of memes than genes. Fixing the memes of society will do a lot more good than fixing the genes. A stone age tribe of backstabbing ubermensch is going to lose 100% of the time when faced with an organized , disciplined bronze age untermensch.

>>132912939
There is nothing scientific about eugenics. It's just a tool of achieving a certain genetic goal, like gene modification.

That's like if you asked us if hammers are a science or pseudoscience.

What you might have meant is evolution.

>>132912939
we breed cows for milk
we breed cows for the meat
we breed horses for war
we breed horses for sports, jumping, track ..
we breed chicken for eggs
we breed chicken for the meat
we breed animals for work, beautycontests, basicly in function of our needs.
animals breed with the verry best and the strong among themselfs, it's natural.
we are nothing different, we want the strongest, the most beautyfull, deep down in our primal us we still are animals, it's nature.
don't lie to yourself , eugenics is nature's way, it's the verry foundation and basics of life

>>132918284
Yes if you pick the ones that look most like your narrative. It's the definition of cherry picking. What is the sample size in this picture? 1

>>132923775
>>132924157

>selective breeding
indeed, for 1000's of years the day human domesticated animals.
and actually, if you want to believe it or not, be fooled or not, women are always been the ones that did eugenics with the human breed.
they choose a strong man for breeding and they choose a kind and providing man for husbandery (yes puns intended)
and if they are lucky, they find a manwho can be both.

>>132913514
Animal husbandry is as old as civilization.

But don't let fifteen thousand years of experience change your opinion on the sterilization of retards.

File: Eugenics USA.jpg (3MB, 1354x3500px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1354x3500px

>>132912939
Necessity.

>>132912939
>science

>>132912939
Eugenics is a PSEUDOSCIENCE

Science is this process:

1. Develop hypothesis
2. Test hypothesis
3. Gather results
4. Have peers review your work and replicate it

If your hypothesis can survive all 4 steps then it can be accepted as true.

Eugenics can be performed scientifically in this manner:

1. Hypothesis: Eliminating black skinned people from the USA population will improve USA society
2. Test hypothesis (this has never been done in the USA)
3. Gather results: What happened to American society after you removed (killed) all the black people?
4. Have other similar societies perform this test in order to see if they get the same results.

This is simply impossible to perform scientifically. You cannot replicate a genocide in the USA without an extremely accurate computer simulation.

To graduate from pseudoscience into science all you need is a little bit of testing.

File: IMG_7262.jpg (113KB, 1224x867px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 1224x867px

>>132912939
Science. It is just purposively selecting the people with the best genetics to have children. National Socialists would have achieved to create Übermenschen - healthy, good looking geniuses. Diseases would be unknown. Humanity would be 10,000 years ahead now.

>>132922035
It is immoral not to abort defective humans.

Just try again for a non retard, pregnancy is only 9 months and you can test for problems early on.

>>132925614
If you didn't incentivize poor people having children with welfare it wouldn't be nearly as big of a problem.

>>132925846

kek

fucking jew

Eugenics is fucking science.

File: 1460419809327.jpg (87KB, 600x480px) Image search: [Google]

87KB, 600x480px

>>132913359
lel, you sure showed him good sir

>>132925846

Who ever said the only way to test eugenics was on the scale of an entire country? And why does that country have to be the United States in particular? Do you realize how sophomoric you sound?

>>132912939
Its accelerated evolution

killing the weak & stupid and breeding the strong & smart

And as for does it work, yes evolution works.

>>132913182
Time always produces the optimal genes. Fitness is only determined by evolutionary success.

>>132912939
Eugenics is just a practice. The specific determination factors could be a bunch of hogwash, or they could be scientifically based.

But yes, genetics matter and yes, you can determine through testing who is and isn't more likely to be a violent thug, sickly, or otherwise worthless drain on society, and who will be healthy and lack undesirable traits. It's not perfect, but it's getting really gosh darned good and improving every day. We could start right now with some things and tweak as we go, if there were public support for it.

>>132913636
Literally all of agricultural history would like a word with you

File: 1483541171586s.jpg (3KB, 125x82px) Image search: [Google]

3KB, 125x82px

>>132925846
>1. Hypothesis: Eliminating black skinned people from the USA population will improve USA society
>2. Test hypothesis (this has never been done in the USA)
>3. Gather results: What happened to American society after you removed (killed) all the black people?
>4. Have other similar societies perform this test in order to see if they get the same results.
>This is simply impossible to perform scientifically. You cannot replicate a genocide in the USA without an extremely accurate computer simulation.
>To graduate from pseudoscience into science all you need is a little bit of testing.

< eliminating = genocide
> eugenics = genocide
> *rolls eyes*
>.....
> dictionary <== yes use it you dummkopf

>>132926420
Give me an example of a test for eugenics that can be tested in REAL life.

I used the USA as an example because it was the first one that came to mind, nothing more.

>>132912939
it's already happening. women decide on who's going to procreate, and that's a function of money or stupidity of the woman. anyway, capitalism is love, because it acts as an filter to disincentives being a worthless piece of shit (poor people)

>>132914150
>What are parrots

Nice try schlomo

>>132926910
Killing people is the cheapest way of eliminating them from your society.

Why do you think it was Hitler's chosen method of eugenics?

Just work them until they die, or a single bullet per (((removed))) person when they get too weak to work.

>>132923775
But behavioral traits like loyalty and discipline are also affected by genes. If that wasn't the case we'd have been able to teach these traits to niggers in the 200 years we've been trying.

File: 1498865205069.jpg (84KB, 1080x1081px) Image search: [Google]

84KB, 1080x1081px

>>132913780
t. liberal arts major

>>132927059
here's an example of eugenics
https://singularityhub.com/2011/07/13/belgian-blues-will-blow-your-mind-these-cows-are-totally-ripped/

When we do eugenics with animals it's called selective breeding, but it's the same as eugenics.

Here's some material
https://prezi.com/qzchemomda4d/eugenics-and-selective-breeding/

And if you ask for differences between eugenics and selective breeding, I have no fucking clue. Probably a kike trick to keep us from eliminating their pet blacks

>>132927506
There are more differences between you and and someone who lived 400 years ago than there are between you and an African person.

CHECKMATE, ATHEISTS.

>>132927059
It can be empirically tested with twins which were separated and grew up in different environments. If the grandparents and parents have a high IQ and the twins as well, then provided you examine a sufficient amount of twins, you could empirically prove that IQ is inherited. From this follows that letting people with high intelligence breed leads to higher overall intelligence compared to if you let only dumb people breed.

File: IMG_7263.jpg (424KB, 1000x679px) Image search: [Google]

424KB, 1000x679px

>>132927373

>>132927213
They why do poor niggers have 5 times as many children as smart white doctors and lawyers?

>>132924258
Forensic can determine race from bones with decent reliability, and by decent I mean they can prove their shit up in front of courts.

Race is not skin deep.
And never was.

>>132928212
ooh yes, or cloned, like "the boys from brazil."
all theory, but interesting study non the less

>>132927998
Not at all (assumed that the race remains similar overall). I have more in common with classic Greek or Romans or Victorian Brits than with any Nigger.

>>132927756
Hmmm

Yea practicing this on humans would never make it past any ethics committee.

This is not a way to practice eugenics in real life

>>132928653
Not just theory, there are many twin studies for researching inheritability.

>>132912939
>a dog can be a pure breed but a human can't
>seperation of species and humans

File: kribbel kribbel, schrijf schrijf.jpg (3KB, 101x125px) Image search: [Google]

3KB, 101x125px

>>132928454
hahahahaha......
i'm gonne steal this ^^
may i?

>>132928726
It already happened successfully in Northern Europe. Also it happened during whole human history through sexual partner selection and nature itself (war, food scarcity).

>>132929065
Of course comrade.

>>132928507
because poor women have ill judgement? because we fuck things up with enabling the bad (welfare)? or maybe because it's a viable strategy when you'd have to expect that 3/5 of your childrens gets either shot or end up in prison? whatever, the mechanism is there.

>>132929037
>>a dog can be a pure breed but a human can't
how about island people and people who lived for 1000's of years seperated from the rest of us?
you can't go purer than that, wouldn't it?

>>132928912
with "all theory" i was talking about cloning and how they did it in the book and movie.
but yes, i love reading about those study reports about twins, verry interesting

>>132929265
thanks kameraad

>>132928454
Perhaps your propaganda will be useful in the future

>>132928212
Weaknesses of a society based on high IQ:

1. Reliant on technology to do the scrub work
2. Genetic monoculture which makes it susceptible to system shocks.
3. Societal monoculture, culture of the mind, "it works in practice but does it work in theory?" also susceptible to system shocks.

>>132929202
Eugenics in northern europe? You mean the weather right?

>>132928719
You're not fucking Greek, anon. You'r probably some snownigger civilized by Romans at the edge of a gladius.

And IQ has been growing steadily for decades. The average IQ 70 years ago was 70. If you went back in time you would be a super genius along with any African American that went with you.

>>132926606

>Time always produces the optimal genes

Depends on what sort of optimal you're after.

> Fitness is only determined by evolutionary success.
That's circular as your implied definition for "fitness" is evolutionary success.
Also there's a vast difference between fitness in the sense of spawning people with the aim of achieving a sucessful society (however you define that) and fitnesss in the sense of furthering your genes.

>>132914495
How about no genetic diseases, for a start?

Eugenics is literally the only thing left capable of saving the West. When we elevate niggers to have an average IQ of 100, crime will drop substantially. If liberals fuck with eugenics, this country is OVER. OVER. Luckily China exists and once they implement eugenics, we'll be forced to. Five more years till intelligence genes are discovered. It's coming SOON. All my children will be IVF children.

In who's image would we be reshaping man?
Time is natures eugenics program.

>>132926606
but fitness is relative anon

File: 1496713772266.png (698KB, 623x557px) Image search: [Google]

698KB, 623x557px

>>132930350
stephen hawking's of the future just won't be around


hahahahahahhahahahha

File: 1497510728463.jpg (3MB, 2892x3976px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 2892x3976px

>>132912939
>we can breed dogs to have select traits
>we can breed horses to have select traits
>breed humans for select traits? durrr that's pseudoscience!

>>132914150
That has to do with physiology more than intelligence. Communication is what you're thinking about and animals can communicate in varying levels of complexity.

File: AustralianShitposting4.gif (3MB, 200x199px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 200x199px

>>132930962
>dogo argentino

kek is this for real?

>>132930878
the cone you can stack upto 6.000.000 scoops of i scream :D !!

>>132912939
Lol, Ben Garrison is retarded.

>>132930962
It's pseudoscience because we don't know the effects that such policies would have on society. Eugenics policies have never been scientifically tested in modern westernized societies.

>>132931512
that's because the one time it looked promising, a world war broke out and Dresden was firebombed.

>>132913182
> the method is plausible
The method is what is responsible for all biodiversity in all life.
To say it's "plausible" is idiotic It's proven beyond any doubt.

>but the actual "best" genetic content is debatable
Obviously. It's no different than dog breeds. Is there one single "master" dog breed? No, of course not. Just different breeds bred for different purposes.

>>132931512
>It's pseudoscience because we don't know the effects that such policies would have on society
Appealing to consequences rather than what is real or not? Are you stupid? That does not determine if it's valid or not.
The Atomic bomb once once untested, unproven science that we didn't know how it would shape the geopolitical world stage, did that make it pseudoscience?
You're a moron.

File: thWAZM1XB3.jpg (8KB, 249x249px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 249x249px

>>132919999
dam he necc

>>132931276
great dogs
bred to fight boars and pumas

>>132930239
Nah, despite your attempts, sculptures prove that Greek and Romans have facial features of Whites - and clearly not Negro or Asian ones.

The aboriginal is still dumb as a rock. People can become more intelligent, but this highly depends on mutation, selection, environment. If just time would be the most important factor Blacks would be at least as smart as Whites.

If you believe in evolution, how can you possibly call Eugenics "pseudoscience"?
It's exactly the same principle, just applied to humans.

This is what happens when retarded normies try to handle scientific concepts more difficult than 1 + 2 = 3

File: 1474066441023.png (341KB, 618x853px) Image search: [Google]

341KB, 618x853px

>>132930239
The average IQ is always 100. That's how the scale works you baka-ass motherfucker.

File: 1491147528913.png (44KB, 562x285px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 562x285px

>>132932151
Do you want the honest reason why?

>>132913679
Breeding for intelligence or fitness doesn't matter if all you want to do is ensure that people aren't making a mistake by weighing down the system with the genetically unfit.
``Genetically unfit'' can be easily defined in reasonable terms--there are genetic anomalies that guarantee that the child will never live a normal life and forever impact the family unit in an almost certainly negative way.

>>132913636
Shills might as well just all pick the LGBT flag. It's not like you faggots are fooling anyone anyway.

File: 1497702319652.jpg (215KB, 1280x1556px) Image search: [Google]

215KB, 1280x1556px

>>132914150
>evolution doesn't work for humans because humans can talk
>this is what normies actually believe

>>132922005
Was he just a tool like Soros or was he a power player? I am beginning to believe he was a tool.

>>132919803
You can extrapolate the diet of an animal by looking at its bones. An animals who's teeth do not look like they can rip and tear flesh is more likely not a carnivore. It's not exact but you can make very educated guesses.

The bigger joke is the way dinosaurs are estimated to LOOK. Theres a book that showed what animals that already exist would look like if they were drawn based on their fossils the way they do dinosaurs. Needless to say they looked nothing like what the fossils implied.

>>132930878
That would be a bad thing?

File: jstfuckmyshitup.jpg (17KB, 499x499px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 499x499px

>>132932682
>we live in a world that is governed by fee fees of retards that are not taught to think only to memorize what ever is being taught, never questioning if what is taught is actually true
We are in society that is comprised of parrots teaching other parrots.

>>132931955
I'm just saying we don't know what would happen if eugenics were implemented.

Any eugenics program will have weaknesses inherent to it. It's just a matter of picking the one with the least amount of weakness.

>>132931512
M8, most of USA's states had Eugenics policies in the early 20th century. So did much of Europe. This has been tested on a mass scale already. It clearly works

>>132928507
Because you pay them more welfare for each fatherless child. Literally disgenics.

Planned Parenthood can't do anything to stop this level of cuckoldry.

>>132931512
we do you idiot
put your brain at work and maybe your pseudobrain could grasp the concept and meaning of eugenics by reading about the history of husbandry, agriculture. the concept of blood and soil, the breedingprograms in slavetrade
maybe open up a book about Sparta too while you're at it, which i doubt you will, Sparta isn't onlly known for their military power, but also how they raise their offspring and how society and the state was involved in it

>>132932972
Yea

People with incredibly high IQ can have a genetic disease. In fact many jews with high IQ have more susceptibility to genetic diseases.

High IQ is good for a society, I can see no reasons why it wouldn't provide a net positive effect for society.

>>132915156
good propaganda bud, thanks

>>132933200
what policies exactly my man?

if you tell me i will tickle your pickle

File: Eugenics-Fitter-Families-Contest-Winners-Topeka-Kansas.jpg (22KB, 355x280px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 355x280px

>>132933728
Here you go:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States

Pic related was taken in Kansas

>>132933431
lel triggered u

I've been playing devil's advocate the whole time senpai

Truly the best society is not bound by ideology

it fluctuates through periods of intense eugenics and periods of intense diversity

File: lerarestoppepe.jpg (265KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

265KB, 600x600px

>>132933940
consider your pickle tickled

File: 1485227065638.jpg (135KB, 756x596px) Image search: [Google]

135KB, 756x596px

>>132933170
We already practice eugenics to an extent when we chose our sex partners.
You practice eugenics going for the hottest girl you can date, or when a woman goes for the taller man, or whatever the preference may be.
What you don't like is state enforced eugenics. Even though we already effectively do that by selecting which immigrants we allow and which we don't. Or which ethnic groups the government promotes over others (i.e. affirmative action)
To intentionally shove your head into the sand and pretend that evolution does not apply to our own race is silly. You can't keep this secret for much longer as humans start to dabble in gene editing more and more. Eventually people will start asking about it more and more.
The solution is to let all groups of people from all walks of like practice Eugenics as they wish. No different than the masses of dog breeders who churned out hundreds of different dog breeds all bred for different features and purposes.
It's like M.A.D. but instead of everyone having nukes, it's everyone having sperm and egg cells and using them as they wish.

>>132933563
not of high IQ, but of interbreeding, they don't mix with non-jews and mostly because they are rascist as fuck and their "holy book" forbids it unless it's absolutely nessecary.

>>132933998
you triggered jack shit

>I've been playing devil's advocate the whole time senpai

no you didn't, you made look yourself like an idiot

>>132934266
heh, good luck implementing a system of free eugenic enterprise

I will remain skeptical

>>132914495
Get rid of nigger babies and the chinks that cook dogs

File: ChimpThinksHe'sSmart.jpg (48KB, 395x600px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 395x600px

>>132934572
stay mad famalam

File: 1495399667109.jpg (235KB, 566x635px) Image search: [Google]

235KB, 566x635px

>>132934769
>implementing
>implying
All you have to do is allow it to happen. Take your hands off and just let it be.
There a lots of people who would pay out the nose to produce their offspring through these means already, and with technologies like CRISPR becoming more common, you couldn't stop it if you tried. Money speaks a whole lot louder than weak appeals to morals friend.

>>132935273
The free market doesn't exist there is no invisible hand

there must be regulation to a point, where you aren't strangling the market but where you are certainly asserting your dominant position over it.

>>132912939
I just want people to breed within their own race. Is that so wrong?

File: 4364136 nme45y.jpg (7KB, 460x290px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 460x290px

You tell me.

File: 1499387456576.jpg (47KB, 720x540px) Image search: [Google]

47KB, 720x540px

>>132935411
>The free market doesn't exist there is no invisible hand
lmao just stop

>there must be regulation to a point
Says who? You?
You can't regulate things you don't believe to exist. You called this a pseudoscience not but a few post ago, remember?

>>132935273
On another note

This technology will be available to the upper class first and foremost. They will breed themselves into a super intelligent upper class (jews will turn themselves into super jews) with not only super intelligence but also super strength and agility.

bretty cool

>>132912939
ha, this is from zyklon ben before we turned him

my, how much hes changed

>>132935494
what about half and half individuals? who should they breed with?

File: 1390392078173.jpg (86KB, 640x512px) Image search: [Google]

86KB, 640x512px

>>132916906
The is the counter point I always hear.

What fucking unknowns?

I know exactly what makes an ideal person:
>No disease
>Fit
>Intelligence
>Socially capable
>Physically attractive

What scary unknown consequence can fall out of promoting those virtues? A race of disease-less intelligent attractive people who are naturally physically capable and socially well balanced?

OH LORDY save me from the horrible side effects of a society without it's disgusting dregs. Who could have forseen the damages caused by a society unburdened by the infirm, stupid, weak, autistic and ugly?

File: 1493365465202.jpg (214KB, 600x361px) Image search: [Google]

214KB, 600x361px

>>132935813
The elite have know about this and have done this since medieval Europe. Your a bit late on that discovery.

And besides, Iif you are rich you already increase your chances at living longer and reproducing more. While having a better diet and not capping your growth development to malnutrition, effectively doing the same thing. Now people will just be more conscious about it.

>>132936042
If everyone is the same then something that destroys one will destroy all.

Monocultures are susceptible to massive system shocks.

File: 1298817153942.jpg (45KB, 600x450px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 600x450px

>>132936569
But you're implying having those broad traits will make people "the same".

Name a single point in human history where
>Weak
>diseased
>stupid
>socially incapable
>ugly

People have saved the day or been the sole survivors of disease?

That type of person is usually the key distributor or cause of disease!

>>132936569
We aren't all racial the same though, so what does this argument have to do with anything?
The goal of Eugenics isn't to make all the same, it's just a method to develop traits. What those preferred traits are is entirely up to you.

>>132917999
they only have 845000 people TOTAL.
less than a million people, think about the tiny number of schools they have to sample from. Of course the numbers will be completely different.

>>132936965
Hmm I cannot name people but I can name potatoes

The Irish potato famine was so disastrous because the widely cultivated lumper potato was wiped out by disease. Since these potatoes had all the same genetics they were all susceptible to the same disease.

So if we cultivate people with all the same intelligence genes, fitness genes, and attractiveness genes eventually any system shock will prove to be a massive one.

File: 1499471471892.jpg (87KB, 648x793px) Image search: [Google]

87KB, 648x793px

>>132938544
Eugenics, by it's very nature, encourages biodiversity.
"Diversity", ironically, kills it and promotes a monoculture.

>>132913247
Because genetics does not claim to understand a tenth of the things eugenics claims. Genes for autism, certain inherited diseases, sure. But intelligence and virtue haven't. In fact intelligence has been proven to not correlate to any single gene

>>132914150

Yeah, I have.

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/20/132650631/new-language-discovered-prairiedogese

>>132940536
What if we archive it
https://archive.is/sfl8V

>>132940340
IQ is, for all intents and purposes, proven to have a high heritability factor. We don't know specific genes in relation to this, but it's a step in the right direction to selectively breed people with high IQ lineages.

>>132940685
Even if it can't be found in a single gene, there is no reason to not selectively breed for it, unless you want a society that is made up of mentally inferiors that are subservient.

>>132921157
You can determine the mating behaviour of a species of primate by comparing the sizes of it's male and female skulls. What you know about modern animals can be used as a frame of reference when studying extinct animals.

File: 1496382545348.png (219KB, 1213x1406px) Image search: [Google]

219KB, 1213x1406px

>>132940874
We actually do understand which specific genes related to IQ though.

>>132914374
But gene mods could be inherited by your offspring

>>132941805
meant for >>132940685

File: 1431184760779.jpg (35KB, 640x432px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 640x432px

>>132932320
>doesn't know about the Flynn Effect
And you have the GALL to call me baka?!!

>>132930962
Notice how the one humans didn't fuck with is the best suited to survival?

>>132942310
>doesn't know that Flynn effect has diminished and is now reversing
Go back to the 1970s grandpa

>>132942475
Yes, and?
We already domesticated ourselves as a species though when we became civilization starting farmers.

>>132930073
>Genetic monoculture which makes it susceptible to system shocks.
High average IQ doesn't imply inbreeding, unless you have an extreme and long-lasting eugenics program in a small population.

File: cornella16.jpg (5KB, 225x225px) Image search: [Google]

5KB, 225x225px

>>132912939
It's science applied in a way which enforces survival of the fittest.

>>132940685
>iq, for all intents and purposes, have proven to have a high heritability factor
No, it hasn't. A correlation is not a hypothesis that can be proven. Hertiability is misunderstood as a calculation that 75% of iq comes from genes. Hertiability is just an attempt to attribute deviations from the IQ mean that could be attributed to genes instead of environment.
>we don't know the specific genes
We know the opposite, there are no single genes that are responsible for intelligence. The closest thing we have is super computers analyzing sets of genes to see if they correlate with high iq individuals. And backtesting is often false.

>>132930239
>The average IQ 70 years ago was 70.
As someone else pointed out, the average IQ is always 100.

However, what you're referring to is that the average white American's IQ seventy years ago was in the low to mid-eighties by today's standards. That's surprisingly low, and this universal increase in average IQ in the developed world is known as the Flynn Effect. However, I've seen academics say that it seems to be plateauing.

>>132913066
We /benegesserit/ nao

File: 2.png (120KB, 2080x820px) Image search: [Google]

120KB, 2080x820px

>>132941805
>correlations

Also that analogy is completely wrong and obviously written by someone who knows jackshit about stats

>>132943023
You sound like you need to read or watch some Linda Gottfredson, lad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZPsXYo7gpc

File: shrugging anime girl.jpg (61KB, 1024x811px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 1024x811px

>>132912939
There's no way to breed a genetically perfect society without having to mass execute hundreds of your own citizens every day. Depends on how much you're willing to throw away morality for the sake of progress.

>>132943299
>2 hours
Nah. If you want to argue just type her arguments here.

>>132943389
>the only way I can think to accomplish my goals is murdering everyone

t. brainlet

>>132942675
>flynn effect reversing in white countries as blacks and arabs roll in
>not happening in Asia

>>132943475
You can find some of her more famous writing and read that instead. If won't do a couple hours of research on this topic you shouldn't make bold and aggressive statements in a debate about it. As far as I can tell, you don't understand the basic techniques for research into IQ heritability.

>>132912939
>we can breed almost anything on earth, plant or animal
>somehow doesn't apply to humans

Humans must be magical.

>>132912939
Gene pool of humanity is in constant state of going to complete shit, since ancient times.
People like Isaac Newton, Leonardo da Vinci and Nikola Tesla left no offspring.
People like Adolf Hitler or Otoya Yamaguchi left no offspring.
But most of proles, peasants and negros in africa did.
Imagine if even some actions were taken just for couple of centuries to make sure people useful to humanity remain in gene pool, we could have had population median IQ of 120+ by now.

>>132912939
The truth is that eugenics already happens naturally.

People already avoid having sex with ugly, fat and stupid people.

That said potential parents looking into genetic counselling is reasonable.

>>132943389
Very untrue. The most obvious and similar alternative is to create norms and incentives that cause successful, talented, intelligent people produce more children. This is one of the main explanations presented for how Ashkenazi Jews developed such high IQs:

http://web.mit.edu/fustflum/documents/papers/AshkenaziIQ.jbiosocsci.pdf

However, if you want to have a homogenously eugenic society by next spring... yeah, you'd need to expel people.

File: 1474512729385.png (461KB, 1317x1652px) Image search: [Google]

461KB, 1317x1652px

>>132943609
I wonder why that is :^)

>>132912939
Science. The reason it has been discredited is because it reduces the importances of the (((Sociologist))). Modern Jew-run sociology wholeheartedly embraces nuture over nature and the Tabula Rasa ideal simply because it justifies extensive social programs and themselves as the architects of said social programs. They don't want to admit that an individual's potential is limited by his genetics and that intelligence is hereditary, because it would put them out of a job. The state wastes billions of taxpayer dollars trying to "reform" shitskin animals who should just be put down.

>>132944758
Absolutely this. Anyone who doesn't understand the depth of the social sciences' insanity should read The 10,000 Year Explosion and A Troublesome Inheritance.

>>132912939
It is science since genes ARE correlated to some behavioral traits. In fact, I'd say it's artificial selection as opposed to natural selection. Both change the average characteristics of the population with time.

>>132943596
It's not that we can't avoid it, it's just that some people actually WANT to do it. Where do you think the RWDS meme comes from?

>>132944387
Dysgenics can also happen naturally, though. It depends on the social and economic incentives that people face. For example, massive welfare states are typically dysgenic.

>>132945242
Causally correlated, too. The most significant and well-known example is the "Warrior-Worrier gene", which affects how efficiently the brain breaks down dopamine and (nor)epinephrine (aka adrenaline).

https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs4680

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catechol-O-methyl_transferase#Val158Met_polymorphism

>>132912939
>Eugenics: science or pseudoscience?

both

>>132912939
I wouldn't consider animal husbandry science, but it still is a legitimate field of research.

File: 139528764248.png (574KB, 689x569px) Image search: [Google]

574KB, 689x569px

>IVF 10 years away
>CRISPR 30 years away
>people unironically advocating nazi tier kill everyone eugenics

Why? You know you are just shooting yourself in the foot right?

>>132943389
Just limit certain people from having kids or certain number of kids. I would have it like a point system where your positive qualities are weighed against your negatives and whatever your score is determines your amount of children (with the truly exceptional being required to have and raise at least one.)

>>132917305
This is the only correct answer itt.

>>132945733
No. I'm advocating let eugenics be completely Laissez-faire. No different than dog breeding.
Eugenics is just a method to breed select traits. See a girl with cute nose? Well if you mate with her your children may inherit that trait. That is basically all Eugenics amounts to being. Selecting traits.
Which traits are selected and which ones you peruse is entirely up to the person practicing it.

>>132917305
>>132946317
You guys are misunderstanding how this works. It's not about finding complex genetic profiles that leads to higher intelligence. It's simply about using two simple facts to determine who's likely to have smarter children, and acting on it:

1. IQ is easily measurable
2. IQ is highly heritable

>>132945251
So what if some people want to do it. Some people are fucking idiots. Are you one?