What does communism mean to you?

>>132857475
>former marxist here
Its trash. Acting like all people can get along if we just do away with the rich people lies is retarded. Acting like the only understanding you need of the world is dialectical materialism is retarded.

>>132858173
Isn't dialectical materialism just philosophy?

Basically Titoism, i.e. non-aligned, socialism, workers self-management, lots of attention paid to art and culture, etc.

I think Americans don't really understand this kind of "communism" and that's why they're so against it. It's honestly closer to distributism than communism.

>>132858638
Didn't Tito suppress certain elements of South Slavic culture to kill nationalism?

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Communism is the current reality.

>>132859031
But communism also has social dictates beyond economics. Many countries today follow certain economic aspects of theirs but retain many other things.

>>132858918
The "South Slavic" culture was created in Yugoslavia. Unless you're talking about pagan religious beliefs and such.

Stuff like local folklore, art and culture was funded more than ever before and ever since.

What was "suppressed" was separatism and nationalism, which was almost entirely funded and stoked by the Croatian and Serbian diaspora who escaped during or shortly after WW2, so they were still living in those times in their heads.

I see communism as the ideology which tricks a bunch of weak people into thinking its alright to gang up and attack the successful. An ideology which exploits jealousy.

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>We face a situation in the West, where, paradoxically, spiritually we’re in a far worse state than the people who lived under communism. And this is one of the great ironies, because amongst its manias and the rest of it, communism froze things. It froze things glacially for 50 years in many respects. And much of the decay, the voluntarist decay, much of which we’ve imposed ourselves, because of ideas that successive generations of our leaders have adopted from themselves and from others, didn’t occur to the same degree in the East: the idea of self-denigration, that patriotism is the worst evil on Earth, that patriotism is one-stop from genocide, that you own group is always the worst group. This hadn’t been institutionalized and internalized quite to the same degree. It’s perverse that peace and plenty can produce more decadence and decay than hard-line Puritanism, artistic philistinism, queuing, and terror. But that’s what’s happened!

Post-Communist countries will be the best places on Earth to live in 2100, possibly sooner depending on the speed of decay elsewhere.

>>132860006
>as the ideology which tricks a bunch of weak people into thinking its alright to gang up and attack the successful.
Pretty sure that's literally the core principle of fascism.

>>132860006
Basically this.

Those who truly believe communism who aren't abject failures lashing out at the upper class, are hopelessly idealistic fools and/or edgy leftist teenagers, both which tend to grow out of it with age and maturity.

>>132860126
Utter bullshit. The dystopian fusion of the worst elements of capitalism and the worst elements of communism is already establishing itself globally. Read Kojeve.

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>>132857475

Incapable individuals who can't achieve anything unless there's a system that glorifies their stupidity.

it's a good software for fuelling genocidal potential by convincing it's adherents that they are doing good and that thus the violence, terror and famine are justified.
as to its premisses they are all failed as proved empirically.

>>132857475
Core principles don't matter. any follower of communism ever has been a violent, genocidal maniac. Look at Hamburg this weekend. That is communism. Not a set of ideals, but a set of reasons to constantly commit violence.

Communism must be eradicated. And anyone stupid and selfish enough to follow it must be punished.

Do note that I don't agree with communism
>>132857475
>no religion
>no race
The language part is hard to consider, many were unwilling to give up their culture.
>gender did matter for them?
>workers revolution
true, but its good to have management skills, which not all workers have, so its flawed
>redistrubution
read the book animal farm by orwell, that is what will happen imo
At the end, communism depends too much on its leaders, leader worship is common (ironically).
And just like the pigs in animal farm, the people will just think its "tactics" whenever something goes on.
And the pigs tred their best to control the narrative.

I don't hate communists, but I do think they are not fully in touch with reality - not everyone wants to work, not everyone is a good manager, some people want private property rights. Some just prefer to do things their way.
As far as a communist country which runs of its resource (vzla), one sentence to put it - "You rob me of solitude but provide me with no companionship."

What a fucking load of shite.

>>132857475
an interesting thought experiment taken too far by fools who do not see the world as it is but rather as they would like it to be.

>>132860828
You can say the same for your flag, no?

>>132860367
You're not wrong, but "left wing capitalism" manifests differently in different countries. There's a degree to which everyone has bought into the same synthesis, but most post-communist societies have not bought into the abdication of nationhood, or the idea that sovereignty is subordinate to capital demands.

"Socialism with Chinese Characteristics" quite different than western social democracies.

>>132857475
People are supposed to live in misery today hoping that someday others will get all their shit free.

>>132857475
Without God built into the social structure, the upper echelons of the hierarchy go mad with power

>>132861036
Are you christian?

>>132857475
>Religion does not matter; religion is fake and meant to be a tool to manipulate the people. Most communist regimes were anti-religion and massacred clergy and confiscated their propriety. State atheism was imposed.
That's true under Marx's interpretation of communism (which is the original) but i don't think that's necessary. Perhaps it was back in the 1800s when the clergy was a privileged group in society but in todays world religion is a lot more spiritual and personal and the clergy is losing importance, plus, Jesus preached some ideas that were quite similar to Marx
>-Race does not matter; no significant differences exist between so-called races. Racism is imperialistic and wrong.
Yea, basically, race is an invention by capitalists to further divide the proletariat.
>-Language does not matter; often times the language of the majority was forced upon the rest of the population. Also seen commies advocate a universal language like Esperanto.
Don't remember any communist regime advocating for anything similar.
>-Traditional gender roles need to be abolished. Men and women are equal before the state. Woman can freely work, open businesses, etc
Not open business because that's something communism is made to fight against, but the rest is correct
>-Classical democracy is flawed and needs to be overthrown by a worker's revolution. The government is led by elected councils made of workers (soviets).
That's mostly Lenins and Trotskys interpretation and it's the one i personally agree with the most
>-Redistribution of land and wealth among the people. Nobles are stripped of all privileges and monarchies overthrown. The worker is upheld as the foundation of the state.
Absolutely, this is the core principal of communism, and the reason i became a tankie in the first place. There should be some slight differences in wealth in my opinion, but they shouldn't be as gaping as they are, the top 1% shouldnt own more than 2% of the wealth (cont.)

>>132861466
>>132857475
While in todays society the top 1% owns more than 50% of the wealth
>-State-founded public education. Everyone deserves free education. Depending on how good you do in school, you can pursue higher education.
Yes, absolutely, perfectly put, 100% agree with that statement, but also free healthcare, housing, electricity, heat, water, basically any and all necessities other than food.

>>132861558
Shit, forgot to add, not for everyone, just for the people employed by the state, and since everything would be state owned, basically just for the people working.

>>132858520
No its a world view that demands that all history be viewed through oppressor and oppressee.

>>132857475
Communism is the idea of giving the workers representative ownership of the means of production. Very nice ideally, however when anything needs to get done you need a way to determine what to produce. You can either go the true communist-everyone-is-equal and have a direct vote. Not only does this take a long time to change in an area of quick adjustments, you have the horrors of mob rule. Not even including the lack of oversight letting droves of people get off the hook and not work for pay. You can otherwise get someone to oversee and be the fall guy for low production. however, by creating a hierarchy where one man is above another you have failed to be a true communist state, and instead are a slow, wasteful government running the economy, which needs to be ruthless, quick, and efficient to compete with other nations. Hence all communist states transform into dictatorial ones, where the state is fast and ruthless, but fails to be communist because the economy benefits the state instead of the people.

>>132862577
How do you "determine what to produce" in capitalism?

>>132857475
>Legitimacy only comes from work.
This is the core principle behind those you have listed.

>>132862946
Do you believe there are certain inherent qualities of people that give legitimacy? (biological heritage, social heritage, etc.)

>>132857475
>I'm curious what some anons consider core principles of communism. I'll list mine:

>Religion does not matter; religion is fake and meant to be a tool to manipulate the people. Most communist regimes were anti-religion and massacred clergy and confiscated their propriety. State atheism was imposed.

''Faith in a God and desire for morals is replaced with the faith in the state doctrine and anything else is heresy.''

>Race does not matter; no significant differences exist between so-called races. Racism is imperialistic and wrong.

''Race doesn't matter, only the Soviet race shall reign supreme.''

>Language does not matter; often times the language of the majority was forced upon the rest of the population. Also seen commies advocate a universal language like Esperanto.

Yet they forced Russian on everyone in the Soviet Union.
Esperanto is a language of champange Communists who hail from Germany.

>Traditional gender roles need to be abolished. Men and women are equal before the state. Woman can freely work, open businesses, etc

''We need to enslave the women as well. Divorce them from their men and marry them to the state!''

>Classical democracy is flawed and needs to be overthrown by a worker's revolution. The government is led by elected councils made of workers (soviets).

''Democratically elected governments are to be replaced by an unquestionable beraucracy. All other political expression is banned. Oh and i'll just make my cousin the chief of the local council. Any who disobey him will be arrested.''

>Redistribution of land and wealth among the people. Nobles are stripped of all privileges and monarchies overthrown. The worker is upheld as the foundation of the state.

''Fuck private property! Fuck working for what you own! What's yours is ours! What's mine is mine!''

>State-founded public education. Everyone deserves free education. Depending on how good you do in school, you can pursue higher education.

''Indoctrination is mandatory.''

>What does communism mean to you?
Ant colony.

>>132863984

ants are happy

>>132864073
Ants can't be happy or miserable. That's why ant colony -> communism.

"I have no money. Wouldn't it be great is other people had no money as well...".

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>>132862826
Market study, test (may take a while, as in, years of operating with a negative cash flow, depends on what you want to do), continue if it works, if it doesn't pivot into another thing.

>>132863254
Not without work. You can have all the inherent qualities one can imagine, if you don't use them it's like they never existed. A quality you don't put at work is a wasted one, and who cares about wasted qualities ?
Also, work is the ultimate and absolute proof that a quality is real.

people on /pol/ just throw everything they don't like together under certain buzzwords like communism or Marxism, so completely unrelated topics like Gender Studies suddenly become a part of Marxism.

In reality however, there's a lot that can be learned from Marx' writings.

>>132857475
It means radical democracy.But politically illiterate yet historically woke anons love twisting the meaning of words.

>>132864756
If woman's liberation reduces birth rates (I'll just assume it does, although I believe research confirms this) wouldn't that make it incompatible with the communist vision? An aging society can't support itself without young people to work there. Sure, you can import people from elsewhere, but what in the case of a hypothetical world communist government?

>>132857475
Communism is a Jewish ideology for the goyim and used to install themselves as parasite rulers. They promise paradise but in reality communism is a way for Jews to have their "2800 slaves"

The ideology attract idiots and midwits who don't think it through to figure out why it doesn't work.

Because Communists are Bolsheviks, and Bolsheviks were Jews, and Jews control the media.

If you were a Jew, depending on a false "holocaust" story for sympathy, would YOU want people to know that the largest REAL genocide in human history, the slaughter of around 30 million White, Christian Russians, was carried out under Jewish leadership.

The truth is something they cannot afford to get out, so they bury it, just like they tried to bury all the dead, White bodies in Russia, Poland, and the rest of Eastern Europe (the Holodomor).

The murderers control the media, so they hide their murders and make themselves out to be victims of murder.
And dupes fall for it.

Communism is a Jewish stain on humanity.

Why did Hitler hate jews? Rabbi Yosef Tzvi ben Porat will explain to you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTYSv_YQOVo

>>132857475
>nothing about critiques of capitalism
it's shit

>>132864371
Why wouldn't you do the same in communism then? Why does the difference between the workers owning the factory, and some retard who inherited it from his rich father owning it, affect the mode of operation?

>>132857475
does this apply to Jews too, or do they get to keep their high ingroup preferences while chastising gentiles?

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>>132866902
A better question is: Why don't the workers who are commies now fund a company and do it themselves then? Learn how to register a company, how to get some bank loans, build a factory and compete with your former boss (and don't forget to budget for consultants to acquire the know how that you don't have as a company).

Read again what >>132862577 answered to you.

But to answer my own question: they don't do it because they don't want to take the risk.

Pic related.

>>132868056
>Why don't the workers who are commies now fund a company and do it themselves then?
Many do, but the problem is that crony capitalism kills that kind of thing very soon. You can for example read the studies about the fall of kibbutz in Israel, and how capitalism ruined them. Still, the degree of success varies, some are successful.

But the problem is basically that you can't LARP that you're in one system when you're in another system which envelops literally every aspect of life.

You can also see this happening to the Amish, to the isolated Brazilian rainforest tribes, and so on.

>>132857475
Preserving traditional values, Bourgeois cosmopolitan scum and LARPing "Nazis" are crushed. This is what happened in reality instead of your meme. The Soviets restored Russia to greatness, industrialized the country and Stalin gave power to the Orthodox Church for the first time since the 1600s.

Meanwhile Romanovs were corrupt and decadent shits with no right to rule.

Your list of communism represents what American Cold War propaganda thinks is to this day.

>>132860653
>Look at Hamburg this weekend.
Merkel deserves it. She deserves even worse.

>>132868444
Corruption is the problem. You can't have unregulated capitalism otherwise you end up with the strawman scenarios that most AnCap memeballs describe, and you can't have over regulation otherwise you end up in a russian or european soviet union. Communism will always fail by design, capitalism can work if not over deregulated. What we have now is indeed, more communism than capitalism, over regulation of shit that shouldn't be regulated and deregulation of shit that should be more regulated. Governments are too big, and not in the right way. Democracy needs reform, as in, no more than 1 term for rulers, no big pensions, crack down on lobbying, ban jews and muds from the West (they always end up using democracy to fuck with democracy itself, so can't have traitors around), end direct taxes and use only indirect taxes (you downsize gov by a BIG chunk and you can keep the same level of tax revenue).

>>132868444
Also, there is never a guarantee of success when it comes to business ventures, that's why it always imply taking a risk.

>>132857475
I enjoy having food.

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>>132868840
Why do you hate food comrade?

>>132857475
starvation, poverty, serfdom to the jews

>>132869179
Nice Cold War propaganda meme. The meme actually comes from the fact that cheap imported bananas from Third World African countries weren't allowed in.

In terms of food, the Eastern Bloc was self-sustaining. Most of the famines came either during WW2 (obviously) or back when Russia was a shithole recovering from civil war.

>>132869243
Just say you hate Russians my dude, I can understand because you've been genuinely fucked by them and the G*rmans.

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>>132868840
>Merkel deserves it. She deserves even worse.
Humm, I don't think Merkel was inside any of those cars that burned or that she owned any of those stores that where looted... You're an idiot commie extortionist, kys.

>>132869329
I'm against looting of small businesses, they don't deserve it. You won't see me supporting any of that. However the G20 globalist scum are worth protesting against, save for Putin, Jinping and May. The only actual world leaders, the rest are just globalist puppets.

>>132869486
You don't like Trump, why?

>>132857475
>What does communism mean to you?
Violates natural law rights, thus is self-destructive and not a sustainable form of governance.

>>132869640
>betrayed every single promise he's made
>'fence'
>nevermind we are pro free trade corruption now lol
>sure lets bomb Syria killing innocents just to prove im not a Russian spy
>yes for real Russia got me elected

Dude's a neocon appealing to the libs these days. If he was an actual man, he'd tell them to fuck off, but he openly said he thinks there was Russian interference in the election. There is nothing to like about him. There's a gun pointed at him by the deep state and instead of going 'Go ahead, shoot' he goes 'P-please I'll do whatever you ask!'

Occupation of my country

>>132857475
no freedom of speech
land taken away from both poor and rich
forced to work at those lands
actual police brutality
having money but got nothing to spend it on

and many more

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>>132869329
You know as much as these commies like to scream Nazi at everyone they disagree with, this whole thing has an air of Kristallnacht to it.

>>132870243
Sounds a lot like capitalism except in capitalism the last line is "having everything to spend it on, but no money"

>>132870076
I see. What do you think about Obama?

>>132870991
Another globalist tool, would've started World War with Russia because MUH GAYZ MUH UKRAINE (actually a fake manufactured country like FYROM). Trump is clearly just continuing what he was doing, but in a conservative coat of paint instead of a liberal one.

>>132870670
I don't know about Hrvatska but here it seems different

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Wait? Jews are behind capitalism AND communism?

>>132869329
>G20

It sounds like these guys are protesting globalism no?

>>132857475
It was a response to the Oriental heretics which try to call themselves Eastern Orthodox losing sight of the LORD, and they became too materialistic. Communism doesn't exist anymore, the Orientals in China, North Korea and Vietnam are using its name brand as a cover for their old faith traditions and normal racial spirit. Mostly those in white contries who call themselves this are pure anarchists who just have a creative way of spending their parents' money or the money they can save from getting welfare benefits and spend time doing degenerate things like having non-procreative sex, O.P.

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>>132857475
150 million killed and counting to "make it work"

>>132871509
It's just an excuse, Anon. If they wanted to stop globalisation, they would train themselves in law and press for laws that get rid of the weaknesses they actually protect. That's how a society gets strong enough to push back on foreign influence.

>>132857475
who will build the roads?

>>132872127
>muh trollz

>>132857475
>religion
>race
>language
>gender roles
What the fuck does this have to do with communism ? Jesus fucking christ are you Romanians fucking brainwashed

Go kill yourself

>>132858918
Tito tried to suppress separatism and nationalism between individual states and change it for South Slavic patriotism/nationalism

He didn't tried to kill off culture and tradition he just tried to make Yugoslav tradition more important than Serb, Croatian, Bosnian. And that was the right thing to do, instead of being patriotic for who the South Slavs are we fight over small differences