National Socialism vs Libertarianism/Anarcho-Capitalism

>>132781133
National socialism was an ideology which was very nation-specific, time period-specific, and economically- specific. Many fail to realize this and act like it could ever be implemented in any other country besides 20th venture germany. It couldnt, it was crafted for the nation at the time exclusively

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>unironicall stormfags

>>132781442
In what ways?

>>132781133
Nazism is dead, cringe, inviable ideology which killed millions of Europeans, divided Europe and let half of it fall to communism, nazis are laughingstock in the real world outside the internet.
Also (((socialism))).

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What about scoopism?

>>132781133
lolbertarians and ancucks are underage memesters

I bet most of them haven't been here longer than 2 years

Voluntary fascism

Libertarianism, because nationalism is retarded and socialism (even Hitler's own definition) is retarded and detrimental. I'm a taco and I believe socialist policies have been ruining this place since 1910.

>>132781133
People are generally pretty hesitant about any form of big government because they're worried they'll become mindless slaves to a soulless, puritan society. It really depends on which freedoms you'd want to limit. If you even do so much as touch things like vidya, sports, music, and especially free speech, most people will jump off the boat right away. And they'd be justified in doing so.

>>132781133
what if i consider myself to be a national liberal (fascist capitalist)???

Anarcho- Capitalism
Because it is the only fully moral political position to take.
National Socialism is socialism wich is incompatible with property rights.

>>132781133
I'm so fucking sick of the Gadsden flag being associated with libertarianism. It's been around since the fucking revolution.

>>132781133
i wish nazis would be happy with /pol/ reclaimign their logo and fuck off already

At best I am a libertarian but I'm starting to understand where capitalism hate comes from, because we are not just replaceable cogs in a machine
There needs to be a state and the state needs to have the interests of the people and race at heart

>>132781133
the snake is just defensive. He can delay the inevitable but he simply can't win. He's just defensive.

>>132782398

>>132783110
>Ancaps
>Having a reason to organize based on race
Someone will sell out your race in your system and then you will be left with nothing

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>>132781133
neither

>>132781442
elaborate

>>132781133
Ancaps are a meme.
I don´t mind libertarians and notsocialism is at least a idiology

>>132782666
You're a spic so nothing you say has any meaning

>>132781133
Libertarianism without going full Ancap.

White-only libertarianism

AnCap

No government. Gold is law.

>>132781133
NatSoc

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Nazis have hotter guys

Monarchism

>>132784235
lmao your society is full of degeneracy, homosexuals, jews, niggers, fauxicans and feminists.
I can't hear you over my traditional family, conservative values and stable work.

>>132782243
This for the short link for the long

https://mises.org/library/omnipotent-government-rise-total-state-and-total-war-0

>>132781133
Although i don't like the whole control everything i do authoritarianism of nat soc i believe a form of it is needed now in the west in order to put our civilization on the right path. Other than that i believe that afterwards we can have some form of a libertarian nations.

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yes, goyim, become a deracinated libertarian.
don'tcha know nazis are socialist?
r-read the mises institutes literature! it's true!

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>>132784695
>Mexican "traditional values"

Low taxes and constitutional carry will surely get rid of the kikes and niggers

>>132784928
>is needed now in the west in order to put our civilization on the right path.
You do know socialist have made the same argument for damn near every expansion of government power into the economic sector since progressive types socialist took root in America 120 years ago and mercantilist before that.

>>132781133
I still really don't get the whole "use free speech and emphasize its absolute importance in order to push your platform, then take it away once you've achieved it" aspect of the growing fascist movement. It seems a bit hypocritical to me. Either you believe in free speech or you don't; there can't be a middle ground.

>>132785174
It won't, see: US

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>>132781133
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmy8UyvKvYE
Any system with a ruling class will inevitably become corrupt. The free market is the best way to improve the race.

>>132783755
You can self segregate in an Ancap society and discriminate on the basis of race. You can build your white "ethno state" and put a big on your front door that says: "No negros, no jews, Arbeit macht frei Sieg Heil".

>>132781133
I don't see my non-mother country help me with my university degree.
And until I do, NatSoc is the only valid answer.
Because, guess what, if you're white, and from europe, no other country than your own gives a damn, you might as well die in a ditch for all they care.

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National capitalism

>>132785528
This
Affirmative Action for whites and protectionism for their state will in the long be their downfall. Only those who compete stay at the top of the race hiereachy.

>>132785877
Heil Hans Herman Hoppe
88-88

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>>132781133
Who ethno-national libertarian here?
>Citizenship and libertarian freedom for whites only
>only whites allowed into country
>non-whites are not citizens and have no rights

Libertarians/Ancaps are all traitors who nearly cost the election and gave Hill the popular vote. They should all be executed

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>>132785306
I don't like the socialist aspect but the nationalistic aspect is what is good to me. I believe we need a sort of mildly right wing authoritative society. Where there is enough authority to keep the culture, big business, immigration and family values in check but freedom in market, speech, music and other things so people are still happy and don't get fucked in the ass by big gov.

>>132786514
Johnson wasn't a libertarian, and neither was anyone who unironically voted for him.

>>132786514
ancaps/true libertarians voted overwhelmingly for Trump. Only meme leftist libertarians didn't for him.

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>>132781133

an unfunctional system with communism levels of understanding of human nature vs a great wartime governance system that wouldn't work nowadays due to massive advancements in technology and the way wars work.

If you think either of these would be a good idea in today's world, you might be retarded(or more likely an ideologue who hasn't read enough to understand the flaws with these systems).

>Which one?
the one I voted
>Why?
Because I really think it's the superior ideology which would really help humankind to develop and thrive

>>132786769
leftist libertarians want open border because they are in cahoots with globalist anyways.

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>>132781133
The free market will eventually lead to eugenics and the purification of the White gene pool. National transhumanism is superior to both libertarianism and national socialism.

>>132784587
Is that a boy?

>>132786024
>Affirmative Action for whites and protectionism for their state will in the long be their downfall. Only those who compete stay at the top of the race hiereachy.
I'm fine with just surviving.

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>>132781133
>cross libertarian
>pic
what the fuck man

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>>132781133
National socialism, because it removes debt slavery, Jewish bankers, and it allows you to tread on those who have been treading on you for your entire life.

>>132786856
Not an argument.

>>132781133
Wow, it's practically even.

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At least it's dead even. Still too many cringe natsocs for my taste.

>>132781442
I have mixed feelings on the matter. All fascism is tailored to the nation it takes root in but the actual "lowercase" idea of national socialism, socialism for the nation by the nation and everyone else can get fucked, is I think a good idea.
We can take inspiration from German National Socialism without trying to implement it in America wholesale, just like we can take inspiration from other fascist groups and writers. Also, the flag is and always will be aesthetic as fuck.

>>132783581
A fucking utopia because people will govern and people are made to put their personal interests at first before others.

>>132781133
A nation is a collective. There is no reason to care for a collective that confers no benefits of membership. Therefore it must be somewhat socialist or fail to have appeal.

It should be socialist without being marxian socialist.

There is a happy balance between the collective interest and the interest of the individual. That balance may change with circumstance, but I think we can agree that it is desirable for the balance to be struck in favor of the individual where possible.

So national socialism, but valuing the individual, and ultimately by the individuals for the individuals.

In an anarcho-capitalist world, there would be national socialist enclaves

>>132784483
Fuck you are worse than muslims.

"God is the law"

What the fuck is this supposed to mean? What do you think would happen in a society where the law is subjective and based on a mythical being ?

>>132787547
Fuck I read that comment as GOD not GOLD.

Dyslexia kicking in HARD

>>132783581
This is the core of my opposition to ideological capitalism too. Evaluation of the individual as their contribution to the GDP is extremely Jewish and unseemly if you have any national feeling at all. Ideologies that place their economic ideal at the center and think that culture and politics should grow out from that are shit-tier in general.

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*blocks ur path*

>>132787641
Dyslexic & retarded is not a good combo
>Mythical being
Replace the word "god" with "good" & you might start to cure your stupidity.

>>132785506
The (((Free Speech Movement))) set this precedent in the 70s that there's no such thing as obscenity, blasphemy, slander, et cetera so that they could push Marxism. Now that they're on top they've made efforts to close the range of speech again so that they maintain control. Fascists are throwing that old poison back in their face but I don't think that they ever maintain the pretense that free speech is the paramount ideal; it's a means to an end, sort of malicious compliance more than anything. "Muh freedoms" is the purview of the alt-lite.

>>132788138
Strasserists are better

>>132781133
fascism saved Europe, but it's only a temporary reaction to communism and socialism; it should never be considered a permanent solution.

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>>132781133

National (((Socialism)))

Gee, I wonder who's behind this post..

>>132787388
The ideal balance for me at least would be a high level of personal liberty, social benefits (fair housing loans, free education, financial stimulation for having children etc) for all legitimate citizens and a somewhat capitalistic system but highly regulated to avoid monopolism and corruption, driven towards sustainable development of the country.

>>132787773
That is not capitalism, especially since GDP includes government spending, which is anti-capitalist.

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>>132781442
>he thinks nazi germany actually went socialist
>what is the night of long knives
They were national populists if anything.

Recessions really do breed socialism, as shown by America trying to be socialist during the Great Depression.

Co-opting socialism and then subverting it from being too extreme with the economics but cranking up whatever social factor you prefer is good, Hitler was smart in that.

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>>132788822
also
>iFunny watermark
Let's have a little chat, anon...

>>132788822
I don't know who is behind OP but I'm sure that behind your post lies a man that hates National "Socialism" without reading anything about it.

>>132788739
True but the same thing could be said about anarchism. It's a transitional situation that leads to the formation of one or more new states.
In the long term something like archaeofuturism is probably a better idea.

>>132788932
Fair enough but you understand my point. Evaluating the individual as an atomized economic unit is extremely Jewish. People aren't islands and they're not shekel-generating machines.

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>>132788592
>no Strasserist flag

>>132781133
>libitarians argue that the private sector is the one that creates innovative technologies
>almost all innovative technologies were created by the army
damn libertarians are retarded

Libertarianism, because national socialism would give me at most 8 years of degenerate free society, while a private community/covenant would give me a lifetime of proper values.

>>132789758
What, are you gonna go in a time machine and go back to the Wild West?

>>132788495
>70s
Are you talking about the 1770s? Because that's how long freedom of speech has existed in America. You clearly don't know how easy it is for someone to twist your words into making it seem like you're trying to subvert the government and get you executed based on something you said. But sure, just continue putting basic human rights in triple parentheses and wallow in your own stupidity, but don't say I didn't warn ya when you're the one on trial for your life.

>>132789890
>"Wild" west
>Much less crime than any modern US city

You'd rather live in today's Chicago, I guess?

>>132790047
>1770s
looks like we were only truly free under the crown

>>132781133
Only one of these political ideologies is viable, and you know it.

>>132790097
Oh, so you have the time machine? Well, what's stopping you? Did you trip on a straw man?

libertarians have no moral or ideological foundation

>>132790236
Yeah I have a time machine, I come to this year from time to time to shitpost.

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>>132785528

>>132789544
An individual is an economic unit (you could make the argument that a household is an economic unit, instead of an individual); however, I agree with you when you say economics should not be the center of your ideology. Ideology should be centered around ethics and morals, and the economic system that works with those ethics would then be advocated for.

>>132790047
>muh human rights
>not knowing about the FSM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Speech_Movement
Read something sometime, alt-lite bitchboy, and stop pretending the Constitution is divine revelation.

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>>132781133
I would like to be libertarian when this is all over.

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>>132787136
>Not an argument.

Huh? I'm pretty sure saying "libertarians don't understand human nature" is an argument. It might not be very elaborate but that doesn't change the fact that it is indeed a reason in support of an idea which is the very definition of an argument...

I mean do you seriously expect me to write an academic paper level of explanation as for why I might hold this view, when you could simply search for some psychology/sociology papers on the subject of hierarchical structures among humans.(warning: both of these fields are soft sciences and therefore filled with postmodernist garbage so it might take a while to sift through bullshit like social dominance theory and similar postmodernist nonsense before you find some solid material.)

>>132790246
They believe in the right of individuals and communities to organically self-organize in the absence of distorted incentives or coercion by self-interested individuals or entities.

Once you create the mechanics of monopolized force, it acts on behalf of whoever gets their hands on it. From the Weimar to the Nazis, from the Nazis to the Globalists, and if the Communists had won an election, go figure.

>>132790484
Its not an argument, it's a strawman. Your dumb preconceived idea of libertarianism cannot serve as premise for anything.

Libertarians understand human nature, and we embrace it.

>>132786589
this. libertarianism might work if the US was still like 90% white. national socialism would realistically probably never be implemented due to its negative connotations

i think the government should be smaller than it is now, but some things should definitely be regulated by it

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>>132782398
Daily reminder that vanilla is the is the master flavor

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>>132783682
This. The current world is not worth defending. Mexicans, degenerates, commies, SJWs, obese, Antifa, homosexuality, trans, they need to go or civilization perishes.

>>132782432
I could literally say that about Nazi. In fact it's pretty accurate. People on stromfront know this and despise 4chan "Nazis", because they aren't serious and give actual white nationalists a bad name because of it.

Now I think both of you are dumb idiots.

>>132790750
But the mechanics are created. The machine exists, it's not like you can go back in time and prevent the managerial state from forming. You have to control it and use it to destroy the enemy, not withdraw.
>>132790969
Memes are fine, I think. Kids start by laughing about ovens and being edgy, and one day they wake up and realize Hitler was right. You just have to keep them moving down the path.

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>natsoc
we will hopefully achive [insert goal] with giving the state suppreme power

>Libertarian
we will hopefully achive [insert goal] with no state and giving people complete freedom

>>132783755
Why should I care about my race? White people didn't do shit for me. And non-whites didn't wrong me. In fact it's commies that want to take my property rights. Which in USA is a bunch of white college kids and professors.

>>132791276
you dont give the state power
she already has it due to her monopoly on force

>>132791360
>professors
>white
Cantwell pls, I thought you knew already.

>>132791219
You have to destroy as much of it as possible (as Pinochet did), or wait for it to collapse under its own weight, decadence and all.

If you take over it and it collapses while you're in control, you and everything you stand for will be blamed for its failure.

>>132791421
>state
>she
the state has a gender?
isnt it "it"?
"IT already has it due to IT'S monopoly on force

>>132791219
Yeah but Hitler was not right. If "Jews" made a lot of money because of trade, no pun, then it's meritocracy. If you don't like it, boycott them and don't work with them.

It's upside down world when someone engages in consensual and voluntary exchange of goods where you call it "theft".

>>132791760
its a girl because you have to woo her to get what you want

>>132791551
Pretty sure 99% of the people burning Hamburg today are white. They can all go to hell tbfh.

I want dissociation of browns, and like 90% of whites too. I would hate to be paying gibs for some of those antifa faggots just because they were born within the imaginary line someone else drew.

>>132785526
>low taxes
>US
LOL
Also the majority of place that have a fuck ton of nigs have extreme gun control

>>132790387
That's more of a cultural decay thing then a capitalist thing.

NatSoc

Blood>all else

>>132791760
Countries are sometimes given female pronouns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_in_English#Personal_pronouns

>>132790407
I understand, but to what extent do you think so-called blasphemy should be punished? Should a person be punished just for saying "I think X," or should they be debated and proven wrong through facts and arguments? Feel free to prove me wrong, I know there's a lot of bad ideas out there, but immediately punishing people for "wrongthink" without explaining why it's wrong just sounds dangerous to me. As much as you like to spew out the argument that "libertarians don't understand human nature", you clearly don't seem to understand how easily people are drawn to taboo subjects, and how making something taboo just makes it more intriguing.

>>132781442
Burgers dont realise that libertarianism is also very nation specific, to the USA. It could never realistically be accepted and implemented in the old world.

>>132791967
It used to be, anon. Clearly it failed to stay that way, which was my point - that shit doesn't solve our problems.

>>132790782

Liberterianism boils down to minarchism and anarcho-capitalism and neither of those is a functional system. Trying to argue otherwise is simply retarded. I mean it's perfectly fine to contemplate them but to try and argue that either of them would be definitely functional without having any real world precedent to point at, is simply a ridiculous notion.

>Libertarians understand human nature, and we embrace it.

Literally the same claim is being made by communists but when their system is put into practice, it clearly shows that they don't.

>>132792213
"I think we should import shitskins" = "I want to live around shitskins" = removal to shitskin country, problem solved.

>>132789758
>Implying there would be democracy in a national socialist society

The whole point of national socialism is to destroy mass democracy. The leader would rule for life.

>>132791868
To play the devil's advocate, the government of the German Empire was overthrown by disproportionately Jewish Communists. So basically, they took over the mechanics of government and created a socialist hellhole.

Of course, that wasn't all Jews - the community was divided between traditionalists who kept to themselves, the Nationalist youth who wished to assimilate (and outperformed in the economic realm), the Zionist youth who wished to go to Palestine, and the Socialist/Communist youth that were genuine troublemakers.

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I like Natsocs and whatnot
the asthetics, the military, law enforcement and music is god teir. Just that makes it all worth it

but...

what I dont like is the state being in controll of everything and controlling peoples private lifes
also homosexuality, two gay men who keep it inside the bedroom shouldnt pose a threat to their society. It's the jew-run LGBTQ mafia natsocs should stop.

>tldr: I like nazi-ism except for the strictness and homo hatred

>>132792650
I thought the commies made the >muh human nashur
meme to try to discredit the human nature argument against gommunism.

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I think that authoritarianism and libertarianism work on sort of a scale, a scale proportional to the degeneracy of a nation and its people. The more degenerate a population is, the more authoritarian a government must be; the less degenerate, the more libertarian. A population that has a large proportion of barbaric looting murderers needs an authoritarian government to keep those lunatics in check while keeping normal people safe. If a population is overwhelmingly cooperative and moral, then more freedoms can be handed out since the population won't abuse them. In this way, its also never advisable to go with a purely authoritarian government (since a country made solely of barbaric murderers will collapse within the day) or with pure anarchism (since there is no such thing as country made solely of perfect people). Instead, as degeneracy is weeded out by an authoritarian government, the government is made more libertarian, while as more rights are introduced, more abuses are found pushing the government to be more authoritarian, creating a balance between the two that is especially crafted for the country and ethnic population that inhabits it.

>>132792842
If you really care so much for representative democracy it could probably be done under fascism. Most of the parties of modern liberalism have fascist analogues.

>>132793332
Faggotry is a public health problem in the modern day, and they've always been a vector for compromising the society. Look how intelligence agencies used to recruit gay people as agents because they were blackmailable.

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>>132781133
Both.

>>132792650
>Liberterianism boils down to minarchism and anarcho-capitalism and neither of those is a functional system

I disagree. It's the thing with non-arguments, that you're making a statement without justifying it and I'm not taking it at face value. I believe anarcho capitalism is a functional system, not only that, I believe it to be the most functional system.

>Literally the same claim is being made by communists but when their system is put into practice, it clearly shows that they don't.

This is just a waste of time, just stop larping as someone who knows his shit.

First of all, commies want to suppress human nature, humans by nature are egoistic creatures who will do all they can to abuse the system.

Meanwhile, we want to canalize that egoism through capitalism, make them wake up every morning to serve society just so they can reach their goals. And, on top of that, we advocate for segregation, you don't like someone? Ok, you don't have to be bothered with his shit, meanwhile commies advocate for forced integration.

Second, Communists have killed hundreds of millions already trying to get their system to work and it always fails, ours, at the very least provoked the gilded age and we can observe a trend of less state intervention leading to more prosperity which, once the dots are connected, could lead us to think that the state might be getting obsolete and in the way of progress.

>>132792842
Nah he wouldn't, you cannot oppress a good part of the population for long without revolts, and then the reaction to it would be decades of leftism because of guilt. I'm Spanish, I would know about it.

>>132792677
Your entire nation is going to be migrating to a shitskin country if you insist on twisting people's words that far out of context fampai

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>>132793609
>Faggotry is a public health problem in the modern day,
so is normal people having sex, there's always a risk of getting a disease (Not saying that straight sex and homo sex in the same but...)

>>132793883
There's no twisting or context about this issue, anon.

>>132793974
this.
I don't hate homo's i just hate when the have to tell everyone about it, strip naked in the streets during "pride parades", get children involved and tell children to be gay.

>>132792966
Imagine my shock. Communists are after everything that is bad,

>>132793851
>humans by nature are egoistic creatures who will do all they can to abuse the system.

For a start, "human nature" is a meme. Human behaviour is fundamentally malleable, that's why different people behave so differently depending on where and when they were raised and what environment they are living in.

The reason humans were successful and neanderthals weren't was humans had the ability to co-operate with one another, even sacrificing themselves for the group. We are not completely narcissistic self-serving psychopaths as ancaps like to make out (projection perhaps?). Pure capitalism simply nurtures and encourages that narcissistic side which is why we are seeing degenerate behaviour like white couples not having kids so they can "live life to the full" and have less financial worries.

>>132781442
The proper form for America is National Capitalism

>>132793974
normal people dont have over 50 partners on average

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>>132793974
And both of those sodomite get this

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>>132794264
>I don't hate homo's i just hate when the have to tell everyone about it, strip naked in the streets during "pride parades", get children involved and tell children to be gay.
I agree with you fully dude

and guess who's behind turning this small minority of people (2% of the worlds population) into a degenerate, egotistical, political movement
>protip: the same people who have taken over every other minority

gays werent allways like fags

>>132794409
>We are not completely narcissistic self-serving

Yes we are. You just might have different goals, including collaboration as one of them, but don't think for a second that you're doing this collaboration for anything other than for yourself.

There's a reason even charity releases dopamine on the most well-intended people.

>>132794032
>"There's no twisting or context about this issue, anon." = "There is no context." = "Anything I say can be taken out of context." = "I shoved a hamster up my ass once."
t. /pol/ intellectual

>>132793974
I want to be a homosexual man but everyone sees me as a faggot. Everyone. I'm in the closet because I hate the current LGBT community and their dogma, and everyone else's perception of it. I don't want to be some roastie's GBF. I don't want to be some adulterous, promiscuous man who ends up getting AIDS because of "kicks and good timezzzz". I want to be allowed to be a Christian and follow the Lord in every way I can. I want to marry a man I love and stay by him. But no one will allow me the autonomy to do such things because the expectations that be.

I hate this world.

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>>132794682
>pic
nice try faggot

>>132781133
National Socialism is basically the left wing of politics in a future white nation. Libertarians and ultraconservative traditionalists are the other two directions.

>>132785877
It is called mercantilism.

>>132794930
jesus christ
what the fuck is that

>>132789544
The Roman way I believe is best, each family is considered an individual unit, despite being made up of many people. Collectivism is toxic when it get's too big, and individualism is toxic when it gets too small.

>>132793851
>I believe anarcho capitalism is a functional system, not only that, I believe it to be the most functional system.
So functional it doesn't exist in the modern day and hasn't ever existed? Pro-tip: Early tribes mostly relied on a council of elders or patriarchs to hold supreme power and dish out punishment as they see fit. Does that sound very an-cap like to you?
>First of all, commies want to suppress human nature, humans by nature are egoistic creatures who will do all they can to abuse the system.
Not really. People are not a single point. Reductionist beliefs being basis for your system of distribution is a sign of how bad it is. For example, Parents sacrificing near everything for their children. I highly suggest you read The elements of Moral Philosophy by James Rachel on why objectivism/Egoism is a bad belief system and also a bad theory (because it is unfalsifiable).
>Meanwhile, we want to canalize that egoism through capitalism, make them wake up every morning to serve society just so they can reach their goals. And, on top of that, we advocate for segregation, you don't like someone? Ok, you don't have to be bothered with his shit, meanwhile commies advocate for forced integration.
How?
>Second, Communists have killed hundreds of millions already trying to get their system to work and it always fails, ours, at the very least provoked the gilded age and we can observe a trend of less state intervention leading to more prosperity which, once the dots are connected, could lead us to think that the state might be getting obsolete and in the way of progress.
Communism definitely is not good, but in regards to your second point, material wealth isn't the only thing that matters either so to point to that as some ultimate good is fruitless. Ignoring that, correlation doesn't equal causation.

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>People still think that jews benefit more from Socialism than they do Capitalism

Neither of those are my flag.

>>132794837
Care to explain how what I said here >>132792677 isn't equivalent to each other, anon?

>>132781133
Natsoc.

You can have a natsoc revolt against rich fags, even if you will need to declare them "jews".
You can have a natsoc redpilled on rich fags the same way they are redpilled on the jews.

Good lick getting delusional lolbertarian/ancuck redpilled on the delusional concepts of NAP, "free" market and trickle down economics.

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>>132794856
>I want to be allowed to be a Christian and follow the Lord in every way I can. I want to marry a man I love and stay by him. But no one will allow me the autonomy to do such things because the expectations that be.
The only one stopping you from doing those things is you. Why would others' expectations prevent you from doing what you want?

>>132781133
I believe we should strive to be better as a nation and as people.
I dislike drugs, tattoos, alcohol, and videogames.
I believe everyone should have the right to bear arms. Even the mentally ill.
I believe you shouldn't be prosecuted for shooting a burglar in your home.
I don't think jews belong anywhere else but in Israel. Also, I don't think Haitians and Colombians belong in my fucking country, get the fuck out and go back to your ecuatorian shithole.

What am I, OP?

>>132795020
turkish circle jerk

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>>132794856
> I'm in the closet because I hate the current LGBT community and their dogma
do like I did

dont "come out", dont have a big intervention with anyone
dont make it a big thing, just do it. if anyone asks you to join a pride parade say no, tell them that the LGBTQ movement hurts gays more than it helps, tell them that it's run by jews who are trying to controll the gays and turn them into sodom and gomorah degenerates

I belive in you anon, find yourself a conservative man and live happy
and dont care about the stormwenies, most of them are just angry skinheads who hate on everything

>>132795481
yeah
literally a CIRCLE jerk

>>132794409
>For a start, "human nature" is a meme.
What kind of fascist doesn't believe in natural law?

>The reason humans were successful and neanderthals weren't was humans had the ability to co-operate with one another, even sacrificing themselves for the group.
No, the reason neanderthals failed is because they killed off the entire enemy tribe in war while homos only killed off the men and impregnated the women. This resulted in the homos expanding their numbers in conquests. Why else do you think whites have Neanderthal DNA, but sub-Saharan blacks don't?

> We are not completely narcissistic self-serving psychopaths as ancaps like to make out (projection perhaps?). Pure capitalism simply nurtures and encourages that narcissistic side which is why we are seeing degenerate behaviour like white couples not having kids so they can "live life to the full" and have less financial worries.

Look at sub-saharen niggers, those are pure humans. What makes whites and Asians stand apart from these pure humans is their neanderthal dna.

>>132781133
Pretty retarded but with a gun pointed to my head I know that anarcho-capitalism (which is arbitrarily connected with being a libertarian) will likely lead to extreme suffering, the likes of which nazism would never achieve.

Therefore, with significant reservation, i pick no vote REEEEEEEEEEE

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>>132781133
Anarcho-Capitalism and Libertarianism is for degenerates. National Socialism is good - the political part is amazing whiel the economic - there are flaws in it. Something like National Capitalism would be perfect.

But Libertarians should really just go back to the_Donald, they have no place here.

>>132795249
Well, you never really specified where you wanted to import the shitskins to. Maybe you wanted them to be imported to a colony far away from where you live, which would imply that you didn't want to live around them. Or maybe you wanted to live around shitskins whilst still remaining in your home country.

>>132795072
>How

Through the belief that "sharks of capitalism" will give a shit about non-written chivalry or NAP because of some meme reasons.

>>132795072
>So functional it doesn't exist in the modern day and hasn't ever existed?

Plenty of things didn't exist until they existed and took over. Not my fault you're not enough of a visionary to realize. Requires lot of abstract thinking, not gonna lie.

>Pro-tip: Early tribes mostly relied on a council of elders or patriarchs to hold supreme power and dish out punishment as they see fit. Does that sound very an-cap like to you?

Depends, was that interaction voluntary?

You seem to think (like most people who never understood anarcho capitalism) that we're against rules or even subjecting ourselves to someone's leadership. That's ancoms, not ancaps.

>For example, Parents sacrificing near everything for their children. I highly suggest you read The elements of Moral Philosophy by James Rachel on why objectivism/Egoism is a bad belief system and also a bad theory (because it is unfalsifiable).

And I recommend you read about Ethical egoism, would explain any case you throw at me.

>How?

Does the baker wake up every morning because of his imperative necessity of serving society? Or because he wants to keep paying his house mortgage?

Does the fact that this baker wakes up every morning to work benefit society? Are we wealthier thanks to it?

>Communism definitely is not good, but in regards to your second point, material wealth isn't the only thing that matters either so to point to that as some ultimate good is fruitless. Ignoring that, correlation doesn't equal causation.

I agree, thus why I clarified that we also want ability to segregate and associate freely to pursue whatever our goals are.

You want to purchase a patch of land, paint a small moustache and sell property only to people who voluntarily accept to call you Mein Fuhrer? Under anarcho capitalism you can.

Anarcho Capitalism is the frame under which everyone can pursue their personal goals. Any other system will not be able to say the same.

>>132795474
>disliking video games
For what purpose?

NatSoc, because Anarcho-capitalism is Jewry without boundaries.

>>132796153
it's just a big waste of time
what do you achive of playing a video game?

you could much rather read a book or do your homework or go outside

>>132796153
They trick your brain into making you believe you are accomplishing something. When you are doing nothing at all.

You could spend that time reading, socializing on /pol/ or with friends, or training your body instead.

>>132795909
>Maybe you wanted them to be imported to a colony far away from where you live
Then it's not import, anon.
>Or maybe you wanted to live around shitskins whilst still remaining in your home country.
Then the question ought to be whether or not you value living around shitskins more than living in your home country, and if that's the case we're back at what I said - the removal of that person that espouts that shit to be where they want to be.

Allowing compromise in this is what led us to where we are in the first place, so there should be none.

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>>132796296
>They trick your brain into making you believe you are accomplishing something.
>You could spend that time socializing on /pol/

>>132795668
>What kind of fascist doesn't believe in natural law?
Are you referring to natural law as in the "The Leviathan" kind or the might makes right kind?
[spoiler]RULES OF NATURE[/spoiler]

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How about both? There's of room for seperate nations with seperate philosophies.

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>>132796298
The main reason nativists fail is because they push morals beyond simply nativism. Look at American prohibition. The KKK embraced prohibition and were zealous about enforcing it. This resulted in everyone hating nativists because of their zealotry. Until nativists learn that they should focus on the main issue of immigration, they will keep making too many enemies and failing.

Nativism is a winning issue, but regulating moral behavior always goes too far and create resentment.

>>132796252
>you could much rather read a book or do your homework or go outside

Not an avid gamer, but this shit is stupid. Everyone can do whatever they like, as long as it brings them enjoyment. What's the difference between watching a movie, reading a book or playing a video game? None. You spend your time enjoying it.

>>132796298
The issue here isn't even the fact that the guy said something stupid, it's the fact that you're just deporting him without trying to change his mind first. Is forgiveness not a principle you hold to heart? As I've said before, this can just as easily be used against you as you use it against others. Especially since you're literally putting words into this person's mouth.

>>132796500
/pol/ is good fun, you learn a lot of things and read opinions from different minded people. Also you learn how to plaster your thoughts into words, even if its via typing. This thread for example, is quite enlightening for me. I'm still reading I, but then again I'm not as educated as many of you guys here.

>>132796507
Natural law is the fact that we are animals that evolved into having intelligence. This evolution didn't create blank slates, it optimized our intelligence for survival in our environment. People subconsciously classify people into ingroups and outgroups. This is because for most of human history we were a tribal animal. Any political ideology that ignores this fact will fail.

>>132796252
>>132796296
How the fuck is playing a video game any different from reading a book or going outside? Isn't it just you spending your leisure time doing something you enjoy.

I never thought /pol/ would unironically loop back around to becoming Jack Thompson anti-vidya puritans. Just know that going after vidya is a great way to get millions of people to drop your cause.

>>132796855
That's nice, where did I say anything about morals though?

>>132796975
>t's the fact that you're just deporting him without trying to change his mind first.
Sounds like a waste of time, considering we're dealing with someone so broken that he wants to be around shitskins.
>Is forgiveness not a principle you hold to heart?
No.
>Especially since you're literally putting words into this person's mouth.
Wanting to import shitskins has as direct consequences that you'll live around them, so no, I'm not putting anything into anyone's mouth.

>>132797397
>pol is one person

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>>132796105
>Plenty of things didn't exist until they existed and took over. Not my fault you're not enough of a visionary to realize. Requires lot of abstract thinking, not gonna lie.
Ahh. I see that you are enlightened so much more than us foul peasants that you can't even let us know your visionary thoughts.
Shitposting aside, how can you practically stop people from enforcing their will upon others? As soon as population and arms are sufficient enough that the easiest way to obtain a better access to resources is to take from others, that is what they do. How do you prevent that from occurring?
>Depends, was that interaction voluntary?
No because if he didn't he would be exiled from the tribe and die. He was born into the tribe and if he doesn't stay apart of the tribe he will not be able to survive by himself due to the harsh conditions.
Another thing that would be done is if you significantly harmed a man's son or killed him your son would be killed even if your son did no wrong.
If on the smallest scale of human interaction coercion was used to maintain order how can you expect a more global and connected world to not use coercion for the same reason?
>And I recommend you read about Ethical egoism, would explain any case you throw at me.
How can you prove someone isn't doing something for their own sake? How can you prove egoism false?
>Does the baker wake up every morning because of his imperative necessity of serving society? Or because he wants to keep paying his house mortgage?
More reduction-ism and hypotheticals. The baker could be doing it for neither reason, for both, for just one or just the other. What the baker does, without a concrete example of who this baker is, and why is just confirmation bias at that point.
>Does the fact that this baker wakes up every morning to work benefit society? Are we wealthier thanks to it?
Hypotheticals aren't very good arguments desu desu~

>>132797490
>Allowing compromise in this is what led us to where we are in the first place, so there should be none.

This statement is wrong, it is the lack of comprises in things not related to immigration that resulted in our state today. For instance, no one cared about nignogs, but as soon as the KKK started busting down doors looking for illegal alcohol it become their problem.

Everyone should try to be anarcho capitalists. Really, even if you wouldn't touch the ideology with a ten foot pole, even if you would never call yourself ancap.

Just become ancap to understand incentives, to understand market solutions, to try to come up with creative ways to replace the state. Better than to Larp as something that will bring you absolutely no real life application for your recently acquired knowledge.

This exercise helps you better yourself and become a person of vision, a person who won't let market opportunities slide through his fingers.

I wasn't an ancap, and then I was, and the difference is now I'm 10 times richer.

>>132797800
>Does the fact that this baker wakes up every morning to work benefit society? Are we wealthier thanks to it?
But to continue my point. It depends on the circumstances. How much bread is there? Do we need shoes instead of bread? Is there enough wheat? To ask whether it benefits society as a whole entirely depends on the circumstances in which it occurs.

>>132797800
>He was born into the tribe and if he doesn't stay apart of the tribe he will not be able to survive by himself due to the harsh conditions.
Some go on to establish their own tribes.

>>132797397
>How the fuck is playing a video game any different from reading a book
You can actually learn things from a book, and they can change your way of thinking and give you insights. They also educate you and teach you new words.

Going outside gives you a chance to be a better talker. I assume that's what he meant by going outside. Having good social skills that boost your career life.

> Isn't it just you spending your leisure time doing something you enjoy.
I believe there is good fun, and bad fun.
Bad fun
>drinking, partying till sunrise
>videogames, spending all night awaken playing
And this whole sex culture thing, all of these I consider them bad fun, unhealthy fun.

>spending your Saturday afternoon at a library, and meeting cute like-minded girls
>training your body so you stop being fat-skinny, or just fat
Good fun

>Just know that going after vidya is a great way to get millions of people to drop your cause.
1) I'm not trying to start a movement
2) Going after Alcohol is also another way to make millions drop 'my cause'
3) This is just me and another guy. Don't put /pol/ in the whole basket.

Everything modern people think of as fun, I want it gone. It makes society degenerate, lazy, and dumb. Not good for the country.

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>>132787018
>when you get a discount on genetic upgrades since so few are needed

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Objectivism is the only possible /final/ redpill.
Also reminder Libertarianism is incomplete Objectivism. Objectivism without the epistemology.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erytcpYpzRk
Reminder that Objectivism is Nationalist, Capitalist, Individualist, Egoist, Libertarian, Minarchist, and Meritocratic all rolled into one. Cultural Marxists are terrified of Ayn Rand as she represents the American Constution completed; a rejection of the Primordial evil that is Altruism that the US founding fsthers lacked. Epistemologically validated, metaphysically defined, and ethically expanded.
Objectivism is the greatest threat Commies have ever encountered which is why they cannot even bear to have it discussed as a philosophy.
The dreaded, horrible secret that academic philosophers face (and why they do not even allow the notion of Objectivism as a philosophy) is that Objectism is not -a- Philosophy but THE Philosophy. Hers holds the particular distinction of being the first ever formulated META-Philosophy. And psudeo-intellectuals the world over are perpetually butthurt over this incontrovertible fact. Yes fact, I do not exaggerate. Including it among their other disaparate half formed, half actualized "philosophies", they find it eats everything it comes into contact with. This disrupts their vested interest in keeping a fanciful salad-esque collection of philosophies to catalog away and do nothing objectively meritous with it on their own terms. Despite what these sorts of people would have to say it isn't Ayn Rand but academia as it stands that is "the joke".

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>>132797260
>Natural law is the fact that we are animals that evolved into having intelligence. This evolution didn't create blank slates, it optimized our intelligence for survival in our environment. People subconsciously classify people into ingroups and outgroups. This is because for most of human history we were a tribal animal. Any political ideology that ignores this fact will fail.
Alright I understand now. I was getting that confused with social contract theory which a Fascist would reject so I wanted to be clear as to what you meant before discussion began.
I agree with you. Anyone who denies that people inherently have in-group preferences and that it won't go away for many thousands of years, if ever, won't last.

>>132794479
Agreed

>>132798028
Minarchism>Anarchism
LfCap>AnCap

And despite pic related also know that while AnCapism means well and is certainly preferable to statism but is utterly inferior to Laissez-faire Capitalism. LfCap>AnCap for the same reason Minarchism>Anarchism and THAT is because objective law>polycentric law. Read a little of this lexicon to discover why http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/anarchism.html

>>132798255
>Some go on to establish their own tribes.
A fair point, but in most cases it would be a death sentence to be exiled and assuming you did do something wrong to deserve the exile it is doubtful that others would leave with you. Especially when unity is survival when you're competing against the world.
I forget the name of the Russian anarchist prince who was exiled and who found that species of animals in harsher more resource restrictive environments tend to be more social and cooperative while animals resource abundance environments tended to be more competitive. In this highly resource rich world people are more likely to compete against each other, especially when arms simple, lethal, and easily accessible.

>>132791915
They are Germans. The last decent German died in '45.

libertarians made this anti fascist film in the 1940's

literally ends with " let's be selfish about this, forget about we and they "

so individualist

>>132797800
>how can you practically stop people from enforcing their will upon others? As soon as population and arms are sufficient enough that the easiest way to obtain a better access to resources is to take from others, that is what they do. How do you prevent that from occurring?

Through violence in retaliation, which tends to prevent violence from happening in the first place. I have a gun, I could perfectly well not give a shit about my neighbor's dog, yet I don't kill it, partially because I'm afraid of the consequences, partially because I fucking love dogs.

We want a society where people can defend themselves and where people can live in places that take care of this defense or to let people acquire insurances to be defended. And defense means shooting the brains of whoever wants to do it to us.

>How can you prove someone isn't doing something for their own sake? How can you prove egoism false?

Because plenty of studies have connected brains to readers to see what happens when you are charitable or help someone.

This releases dopamine which makes us temporarily happier and is addictive. People with higher releases of dopamine tend to be more charitable.

>No because if he didn't he would be exiled from the tribe and die

So it's voluntary then. The tribe provides a commodity that can't be found outside, outside it's risky, and he's a lazy person or a coward.

>More reduction-ism and hypotheticals. The baker could be doing it for neither reason, for both, for just one or just the other. What the baker does, without a concrete example of who this baker is, and why is just confirmation bias at that point.

The baker would be doing it because it makes him feel good, I don't care exactly what makes him feel good and we certainly weren't talking about that, but about egoism.

>Hypotheticals aren't very good arguments desu desu~

So saying that a person being egoist and producing something makes society better is hypothetical?

>>132799226
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K6-cEAJZlE

>>132793974
Sadly most gays are the right picture. All of the variable(x) faggots are not nearly in that good of shape.

>>132781133
Anarcho-capitalism because it is the only logical and moral system of social organization.

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>>132781133
because fuck you, i wont do what ya tell me

>>132798897
I could easily see how these Germans are direct consequence of those Germans tbfh.

I said it before, you cannot give the state power to oppress a sector of the population and then pretend this power is not going to shift hands or at the very least create detractors.

This is why I am an Ancap, because I don't want to oppress anyone, I just want to dissociate. So far private property has proven to be the only way to somewhat escape democracy.

>>132799529
>tfw that song was written by the 90s equivalent of Antifa

>>132794966
hmm, maybe natives should have free market, and we tax the foreigners, whom trespass on our land.

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We've already done this

Multiple times...

>>132781442
wrong

http://www.nsm88.org/25points/25pointsengl.html

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Libertarianism/AnCap is just a phase of the redpill, one day you're gonna grow up and realize fascism is the best ideology

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>>132800337

>>132800337
Sorry, I'm already on Hoppean libertarianism, not going back.

>>132798833
>A fair point, but in most cases it would be a death sentence to be exiled and assuming you did do something wrong to deserve the exile it is doubtful that others would leave with you.
That's not a bad thing. Those ostracized without the capability for survival die out, and those who can survive will live on to create superior tribes.
>>132798548
The National Capitalism I envision is similar to National Transhumanism pictured here. >>132787018
>>132799415
AnCaps will have their time on the frontier as space colonization becomes commonplace.
>>132799754
Centralization of power is generally the result of urbanization and division of labor. Read Caves of Steel by Asimov.

>>132799252
>Through violence in retaliation, which tends to prevent violence from happening in the first place. I have a gun, I could perfectly well not give a shit about my neighbor's dog, yet I don't kill it, partially because I'm afraid of the consequences, partially because I fucking love dogs.
Then how do you stop superior military forces from simply saying "Fuck that. We're taking you over" when they have superior discipline due to forceful routines and leaders who are willing to punish them. How would you stop a Caesar, an Alexander, a Genghis, an Attila, a Sun Tzu, an Al Capone a whoever your military general of choice is from simply steam rolling through and enforcing their will? This inevitably happens. Take a look at Feudal Japan and how things gradually centralized and then fully centralized under the Diet.
>Because plenty of studies have connected brains to readers to see what happens when you are charitable or help someone.
I didn't ask how you could prove it true. I asked how you could prove it false. What would need to be done to say people aren't solely egotistical?
>So it's voluntary then. The tribe provides a commodity that can't be found outside, outside it's risky, and he's a lazy person or a coward.
So follow the rules or else die is okay if nature does the killing? As long as the blood isn't directly on the Elder's hands, it's okay? Whatever you say Adachi.
>The baker would be doing it because it makes him feel good, I don't care exactly what makes him feel good and we certainly weren't talking about that, but about egoism.
How do you know he is doing it because it makes him "feel good"? What if he is doing it because it doesn't make him feel good, but rather he sees it as necessary that people have bread?
>So saying that a person being egoist and producing something makes society better is hypothetical?
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypothetical
>not real : imagined as an example
Your example is a hypothetical

>>132800337
Keep telling yourself that, bootlicker.

Authoritarian Right just screams "Look at me! I support Kekistan!! xDDD"

>>132800563
>That's not a bad thing. Those ostracized without the capability for survival die out, and those who can survive will live on to create superior tribes.
Agreed, but I was more arguing with the AnCap who seems to think that it would be a less coercive society when in fact it isn't likely to be a less coercive society. Why stress how voluntary it is if there isn't any less coercion? NatCap I have no desire to dispute the merits of since it seems fine.

>>132800581
>Then how do you stop superior military forces from simply saying "Fuck that. We're taking you over" when they have superior discipline due to forceful routines and leaders who are willing to punish them. How would you stop a Caesar, an Alexander, a Genghis, an Attila, a Sun Tzu, an Al Capone a whoever your military general of choice is from simply steam rolling through and enforcing their will? This inevitably happens. Take a look at Feudal Japan and how things gradually centralized and then fully centralized under the Diet.
Anarcho-Capitalists have always lived on the fringes and frontiers of society. Government is a consequence of urbanization. The libertarian tradition goes back to the wild west days of the American frontier where there was no government to speak off. This concept of "rugged individualism" still holds strong in the American zeitgeist, but there is a lack of real "frontier" to venture out into. AnCaps are the most psychologically suited for space colonization because they're the type of the people who want to be self-sufficient and free from the government.

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>>132800885
Libertarian Right just screams "Look at me! Ron Paul 2020!! xDDD"

>>132800782
Someone's scared of mandatory military service. Are you afraid of putting down those cheetos and Mt. Dew?

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>>132801114
>Anarcho-Capitalists have always lived on the fringes and frontiers of society. Government is a consequence of urbanization. The libertarian tradition goes back to the wild west days of the American frontier where there was no government to speak off. This concept of "rugged individualism" still holds strong in the American zeitgeist, but there is a lack of real "frontier" to venture out into. AnCaps are the most psychologically suited for space colonization because they're the type of the people who want to be self-sufficient and free from the government.
I like you. Good posts. You understand history and the time and place for different ideologies.

>>132781133
Benevolent but strong national socialism. Libertarianism is doomed to power being seized and exploited by those who take control of industries and form monopolies/cartels.

How about a Jewless United States? Pure capitalism is cancer and government socialist enough to call itself socialist is cancer.

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This board is home to both small government libertarians, as well as nazi fascists. At least we agree that commies should be eliminated

Why don't we try to get along better? Let's try to say something nice about the other team. I'll start.
>NatSoc supporters have great hair, and show great family values

Your turn. What nice thing can you say about libertarians?

>>132800581
>Then how do you stop superior military forces from simply saying "Fuck that. We're taking you over"

1st, why would they be superior? Capitalism tends to allocate resources better than any other ideology, even if they put a lot of weight into military discipline, what makes you think they're not doing so at the expense of wealth creation, which ultimately loses them any attempt of invasion?

Besides, all this historical evidence is pointless, tell this to the Vietnamese who resisted the US, tell them they should have had no hope of ever getting alive. We're at an age where lives matter, where people have things to lose, and where peaceful countries are proving you don't need war for prosperity, which is completely different from the ages you used in your argument.

>I asked how you could prove it false. What would need to be done to say people aren't solely egotistical?

Because the definition of egoism means doing something for yourself, it does not mean not doing it for others. It's not an either-or situation here.

>So follow the rules or else die is okay if nature does the killing?

What alternative is there? Don't follow the rules and we will cuddle you to sleep every night?

Follow the rules if you want to enjoy the advantages we provide, if you feel you can be better off alone we wouldn't stop you. Seems fair, indeed.

>How do you know he is doing it because it makes him "feel good"?

Because otherwise he wouldn't do it. Trading in general tends to be an interaction where all the parties involved end up "better off" according to their subjective values.

>Your example is a hypothetical

My example is not hypothetical because it happens every day. A hypothesis would be to talk about aliens, not to talk about a baker waking up to bake because he wants to pay his mortgage. I can introduce you to a few of those bakers if you want.

>>132801573
Fascist meritocracy is the best. Only those who prove themselves to the state through military service are allowed to vote, hold public office, breed, or become an entrepreneur .

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Jews can exploit libertarianism as we see it in today's world.

Jews cannot exploit National Socialism. They can only destroy it by the outside in, like what happened in World War 2.

NS wins.

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>>132787018
>tfw

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>>132801695
Genetically engineered catgirls for domestic ownership threads were the best thing on /pol/ ever.

>>132785877
You mean state capitalism?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism

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>>132801695
>NatSoc supporters have great hair, and show great family values
they also look really good in their uniforms
like R E A L L Y good

>>132801918
Fascist Meritocracy is still better. We get pro-white policies and the scum of society are not allowed to advance. You must admit that some of the Nazi commanders were scum human beings that did not deserve their positions.

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>>132801140
>Trust me guys I'm super right wing!!!! I'll allow free trade the selling of national interests off to the Chinese, import niggers and give everyone equal rights :)

But I'm super right wing.

Ancap is practically communism.

Both end in
No state
Small unionized societies and towns
Free trade
No religious or moral influence in way of life
Equal rights for all
Women in the workforce
Degenerate shit everywhere
The worship of money and wealth redistribution
Greedy as fuck

>>132801899
I have problem with military service because, if I'm being honest, I think the majority of wars we've fought over the past few decades have been illegal and made our home more dangerous by encouraging extremism from our large migrant population. I would never risk my life for (((their))) war. Give me comfy isolationism any day.

>>132801918
>inb4 but muh private militia will prevent it my dude xD

>>132801918
Keynessian economics tend to have short term booms and long term busts. It´s no surprise, really.

Venezuela also grew during the first years of Chavez in power, until they ran out of people's money and they couldn't sustain the aggregate demand policies.

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>>132802175
>>132802175
>Nazi

I wonder who is behind this post.

>>132802247
Well if you enter the military you have a chance to change things. Look at Soros, bastard could never make it through 13 weeks of basic. Military training is essential to building a morally, mentally, and physically strong populace.

>>132781442
Bruh, Jews are still flammable.

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>>132800337
>Libertarianism/AnCap is just a phase of the redpill, one day you're gonna grow up and realize fascism is the best ideology

This is why we can't have nice things. Sorry, stormkike, fascism is in the dustbin of history where it belongs.

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>>132781133
What about the Third Position?

Hoppean microstates will benefit from economies of scale and eventually form the most well-organized society where the social classes are ideologically united without redistribution of wealth. Pretty darn close to NatSoc.

>>132801899
>>132802247
>I have problem with military service
I agree with Nigel, military service is outdated especially outside of war times.
The rights ought to come with the agreement to the fascist ruleset. A literal social contract instead of the currently implied one.

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>>132802370
Don't keep clinging to the failed state. I probably hate Jews more than you do because I have the misfortune of calling two uncles (not by blood).
Of course the Jews cause extreme problems and fund despicable acts to our people.

>>132801981
fucking lol'd

>>132802172
Too bad they hate filthy degenerates like yourself.
>tfw another reason to appreciate NatSoc

>>132802445
How does your typical soldier have the opportunity to change anything? The very nature of the role is that they have to subject their own will to the will of their commanders - that's why obedience is beat into them so much. I have nothing against individual soldiers at all, but I do think that they're relatively bluepilled.

>>132792278

True. Burgerland libertarianism is not remotely the same as what we consider libertarianism over here.

>>132802768
>Too bad they hate filthy degenerates like yourself.
who was Ernst Röhm?

>>132801409
>You understand history and the time and place for different ideologies.
A lot of people don't get this unfortunately. There does not need to be a universal ideology that applies to everyone.
>>132801886
>>132802178
Anarcho-Capitalism naturally evolves into a form of government after any sufficient urbanization. This is why AnCaps must forever remain on the frontier. This serves a very useful purpose to humanity because they always expand our reach. The people who will colonize space will not be the ones who love a very powerful centralized government. It will be the people who hate it utterly and yearn to be free. So for the NatSocs reading this, the ideal way of dealing with AnCaps is providing them an outlet for their yearning.

>>132802893
Who was killed in the Night of Long Knives?

>>132803027
he was known to be gay ever since he joined the nazi party

Ernst wasnt killed for being a homo, he was killed because hitler didnt trust him with the SA (Who was bigger than the rest of the party)

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I'm not sure if its been pointed out, but national socialism took a literal broken country into a superpower that took 23 different nations, 3 war fronts, and 6 years of war to defeat.
>NS focuses on the community, not on the person, therefore putting the good of the nation before themselves.
>An authoritarian system will be one to explore the stars due to its collectivist nature. And we all know it cant be left wing.
Of course, we could also discuss National Capitalism but we can save that for another thread

>>132803207
what's the difference between national capitalism and national socialism

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>>132787351
I agree. Hitler's rise to power in Germany bares many similarities with our own situation. We have a lot to learn from him, but if we make the mistake of simply emulating him wholly, then we would be making the same mistake as any half-baked white supremacist organisation.

Despite this, OP is a derailing faggot, because instead of initiating a meaningful discussion he turned it into a hostile contest. Sage.

>>132801886
>Besides, all this historical evidence is pointless, tell this to the Vietnamese who resisted the US, tell them they should have had no hope of ever getting alive.
Vietnam didn't avoid being conquered because they "resisted" so well, but rather due to internal pressures in the US. The US chose not to win the war because it would be worse for them. Vietnam also didn't manage to do a good job of stopping lasting birth defects, severe damage to their country, and losing the lives of many people. So in other words there was nothing they themselves could do to stop US aggression. It was all outwards power plays by foreign regimes such as the Soviets pressuring the US from the outside and US citizens deciding they couldn't support the war.
>We're at an age where lives matter
He says as children are bombed in the middle east and millions upon millions die of disease and starvation. Do those lives not matter?
>where people have things to lose
Don't say that like it's something new. People have more material wealth in the first world, but overall the wealth isn't particularly greater for most of the world.
>and where peaceful countries are proving you don't need war for prosperity
Which countries are you talking about?
>which is completely different from the ages you used in your argument.
How? Does Pax Romana not ring a bell to you?
>Because the definition of egoism means doing something for yourself, it does not mean not doing it for others. It's not an either-or situation here.
So egoism is doing stuff for yourself and others which qualifies it as every choice you've ever made with even the slightest amount of rational thought. Such an all-encompassing philosophy is surely useful in real world scenarios!
>Because otherwise he wouldn't do it. Trading in general tends to be an interaction where all the parties involved end up "better off" according to their subjective values.
So if someone does anything then it proves egoism? If I shoot myself it, proves it?
1/2

>>132803156
Apparently there was quite a few gays in the SA. Not sure if this can be even verified but it's something I've heard thrown around in documentaries.

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>>132803649
like I said, Ernst was openly homo and yes, there were was a quite amount of gays within the SA ranks

thing is, Hitler didnt have any problem with it

it's the neonazi skinheads who adopted the "kill all the gays" mantra

>>132803207
>An authoritarian system will be one to explore the stars due to its collectivist nature. And we all know it cant be left wing.
They will play a role in the exploration but, collectivists will have no desire to leave their homeland. It takes a certain personality to want to venture into a place that is in worse conditions. A colonist will always have a harsher standard of living than if he remained at home. Only an individualist that has grown sick and tired of collectivism would be willing to venture out into a harsher life with more freedom as the only perk.

>>132803207
What about a merger of both political ideologies?

Free markets with small government, but strong military/police to prevent societal degeneration and protection from foreign attack. We could have low tax, with no welfare state, but a strong military and sense of national identity.

We could call it "Nazitarian"

>>132802839
Yes and no.
The military is so vast that a majority are bluepilled.
Some like myself however run into certain corners of the internet and libraries and end up redpilled.
>a typical soldier doesnt have the opportunity to change anything
Yeah, true, however those of us in physically demanding or unforgiving jobs usually haze weak newfags into a different mentality, which makes it easier for the pill, changing the community base if that makes sense

>>132800337
(((redpilled)))

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>>132803630
>My example is not hypothetical because it happens every day.
Then be more specific because as of now it is a theory in a hypothetical setting. What sort of baker are we talking about? Your situation is less detailed than the fucking trolley problem.

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>>132781133
Libertarianism is a wealth based ideology that is not transcendent.

National Socialism only cares about the economy so long as it secures the family unit, can provide everyone willing to work with a salary that can provide for their family, gets rid of (((bankers))), and can provide the state with security.
Whatever is necessary to achieve that will be attempted, and if it goes wrong, it can adapt.

This isn't even a choice. You could disagree about the particulars, but who in their right mind would support "dude I want trannies to adopt africans on their weed farms lmao" as an ''''''''''''''ídeology'''''''''''''''?
Sorry, but no. We're going to ban all of that shit, perhaps being looser on the weed, but the only people liking weed are retards in the first place so I wouldn't mind literally shooting people as legal punishment for breaking that law.

>>132785877
Winner, a synthesis.

Capitalism with race realism and nationalism.

>>132781133
National socialism until the demographic problem is solved, and the whiteness of europe is no longer under thread. Then Libertarianism, operating under the additional caveat that importing non whites is forbidden.

>>132803395
It's a contradiction

If your Authoritarian and Nationalist enough you'll ban companies and corporations which harm the nation along with degenerate pornography and drug manufactures while keeping social welfare (Since your a nationalist) along some capitalistic values your what the Third Reich was. Natsoc was not (((socialism))) It was socialism in the sense of some welfare and a controlled economy, everything else was capitalist provate means of production etc.

>>132803917
>thing is, Hitler didnt have any problem with it
Oh is that why they got purged

As part of the Nazis' attempt to purify German society and propagate an "Aryan master race," they condemned homosexuals as "socially aberrant." Soon after taking office on 30 January, 1933, Hitler banned all homosexual and lesbian organisations. Brownshirted storm troopers raided the institutions and gathering places of homosexuals. Greatly weakened and driven underground, this subculture had flourished in the relative freedom of the 1920s, in the pubs and cafes of Berlin, Hamburg, Munich, Bremen, and other cities.

The Nazi campaign against homosexuality targeted the more than one million German men who, the state asserted, carried a "degeneracy" that threatened the "disciplined masculinity" of Germany. Denounced as "anti-social parasites" and as "enemies of the state," more than 100,000 men were arrested under a broadly interpreted law against homosexuality. Approximately 50,000 men served prison terms as convicted homosexuals, while an unknown number were institutionalized in mental hospitals. Others were castrated under court order or coercion. Analyses of fragmentary records suggest that between 5,000 and 15,000 homosexual men were imprisoned in concentration camps, where many died from starvation, disease, exhaustion, beatings, and murder.

>>132804162
Then bankers and corporations take power and slowly the degenerate nature of capitalism takes hold and your back to square one but this time you don't pay as much tax

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>>132803395
>>132803964
Compare Pinochets Chile to Hitlers Germany.
NC is simply capitalism, but with right wing, national interests first. Almost everything is privatized.
>why not a merger?
Because the only major differences are the economies really, one focuses on privatized industry under government control (fascism, essentially), and the other focuses more on more centrist policies for the good of the Volk (NS)

>>132802494
>Ancoms, commies and democrate participating in a civilized discussion
>"lol STormFags r shit XDDDDD"
You lolbertarians are the worst kind of cancer on this board.
Stormfags actually go through the affort of at least trying to make a discussion. The stuff they post like race realism statistics, jewish influence graphs and threats about cultural aspect is at least backed up by some sort of argument wether you agree with it or not.
NatSocs are continuously the only group here which sometimes tries to actually present their case, unlike "/pol/ BTFO" commie bait threats or you cancerous faggots.
All you do is LARP about "muh NAP meme XD"
and get all butthurt over those evil statist nahtsis while moral grandstanding about your "intellectualism".
Fuck off.

>>132804184
so its a society built on goals instead of rights. The government is not hindered by some "constitution " which can protect degenerate or fringe acts.

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>>132802768
The catgirl threads were really fun. Along with stuff like Flower Girl and Dorner, /pol/ was really good for discussion and funposting. Pre-Zimmerman /pol/ was honestly one of the best boards.

>>132781133
Kinda both and kind of neither, but more nat soc than libertarian

>>132804453
Don't call your ideology capitalism.
It's a Jew invented term, adopted by Jews to hoist money lending as the highest moral good.

An ideology shouldn't put economy in the first place anyways. You're basically a National Socialist that's on the opposite side of Strasserists.

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>no "I'm just a shitposter with an opinion" option

this poll sucks, OP.

>>132781133
Like you fuckers won't get shit on along with everybody else in a fascist world.

Communists, inter/national socialists, fascists, and corporatists can talk all they want, but they wouldn't dare tread on my rights

>>132803421
I say let society tear itself apart for now. In my eyes thats the only way we can get mass redpilling and mainstream support for Hitler to rise again

>>132781133
this sounds like a thinly veiled divide and conquer thread

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>>132804743
I'm sure you're not letting the government steal money from you under the guise of ''''taxes'''', right?
You're shooting the people trying to get taxes out of you, right?

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Both. NatSoc first to pave the way for a libertarian utopia.

>>132804743
so if i cant tread on your " rights " then how would I tread on a tranny or foreigners rights?

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>>132794682
>>132793974
>>132795495

pic related, 99% of homosexuals are faggots.
race-traitor ones at that.

>>132804184
>If your Authoritarian and Nationalist enough you'll ban companies and corporations which harm the nation along with degenerate pornography and drug manufactures while keeping social welfare (Since your a nationalist) along some capitalistic values your what the Third Reich was.
Welfare is against natural law and kills the family unit. Welfare allows women to marry the government instead of finding a suitable husband. There is no social pressure against premarital sex because a woman can
A: Abort her child
B: Force the father to pay child support and get gibs from the government
Think of this scenario >>132797800
>He was born into the tribe and if he doesn't stay apart of the tribe he will not be able to survive by himself due to the harsh conditions.
If woman has a child out of wedlock the family she is part of can decide whether to support it or not. If the family does not support it then it is on the mother and father alone. If they cannot support their child then they should die out. This is natural law.

>>132804743
Your rights<their might
Have fun with a totalitarian Spec Ops team busting into your property to take your recreational McNuke from you in the middle of the night

>>132804563
Correct

The real marxist by definition "national socialists" and not the Nazi's were the strasserists.They wanted collective ownership of the means of productions and all the commie bullshit but kept national not international. They all got purged violently on the night of the long knives though. Hitler had an entirely different meaning of the word socialism to the one most people nowdays only know as Marxist socialism now

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>>132800337

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>>132805135
>anime
nice

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>>132804162
This - just add government measures to prevent oligarchies from controlling the markets.

No large scale media conglomerates or energy monopolies. Keep everything medium sized and local.

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>>132804987
>embrace a system that officers and ex military thrive in and rise to the top
>thinks they'll just let you go back to being free civilians that don't need no authority
I mean. I'd lie to you irl and say we would.

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>>132781133
When the issue at hand is dealt with we can talk about alternatives

>>132804544
blow it out yer ass, you cuck

>>132804987
This x1000

Hoppean libertarianism is the only way. Collectivism in all forms of cancer, but only Nazi collectivism can stand up to commie collectivism. After that we transition to individualism with commies gone.

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>>132781133
here's the way I see it
in an ideal, homogeneous society the best philosophy would be libertarianism.
in the degenerated multicultural societies we live in now, we need something authoritarian like monarchy or national socialism so that we can reach that ideal homogeneous society

>>132804987
Look up Hoppe.
Also youd have to keep going back to NatSoc in order to keep purging your Libertarian society

>>132804881
You know how during a robbery, the best option for the cashier is to comply with the gunman's demands, even though they don't want to obey them? I kinda feel like the cashier. Except this time, even if I was able to defend myself, doing so would lead to even worse consequences.

Pay your taxes or get raped in prison. It's fucking nationwide muggery and I'm tired of it. At least make taxation voluntary or let me specify how much I pay and how I want my tax dollars to be used

>>132804987
>>132805519

I'm on board with this. Society can't currently sustain a real libertarian society because there's too many retarded collectivists and progressives who can't leave without being codependent to a government to tell them how to live their lives.

I voted natsoc ironically. Everyone knows that we are larping

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>>132804987
>>132805519
Worst meme libertarians degenerate people and it's worship of money will kill it. They put no effort onto racial pride or spirituality only into amount of profit made.

Life and society is a eternal struggle against nature and one-another. There is no "victory" over commies or degenerates. It is necessary there be an eternal watchmen guiding the masses and keeping things in order. Pic related

>>132805712
Right, so why do you think you wouldn't let a fascist state 'tread on you'?

Unless you're a degenerate, the state will likely ask the exact same of you as the current one does now

>>132781133
An-cap. I believe national socialism is a retarded way to achieve a white ethno-state, the socialism part just makes the whites on the same level as niggers.
Also fuck fascism, would rather have monarchism.

>>132805194
The core problem with National Socialism as opposed to National Capitalism is that NatSocs do not have an objective way of measuring all the things they cite as degeneracy. This lack of objectivity makes it hard to dispute whether actions are actually degenerate or not. This makes National Socialism more of a "muh feels" based ideology which can easily be subverted into a nightmare of overzealous morality policing. See the KKK as an example >>132796855 Furthermore, as I stated with welfare, NatSocs are susceptible to emotional arguments "muh single white women mothers" that results in meta-degenerate regulations.

National Socialists must consider meta-degeneracy, that is if regulating certain types of degenerates is even more degenerate than not doing anything at all. Far too many NatSocs think regulation itself does not have it's own consequences.

>>132781133
Libertarian, hoppe variety. Ancap would be ideal but I don't think it's plausible due to the current demographic displacement of the US, we have too many large blocks of people who have been invested in welfare parasitism for multiple generations. The only viable solution is to push more and more traditionalist/nationalist/libertarian type people into power and slowly break down the government and it's various programs over time.

Immediate physical removal of all unamerican freedom hating commie shitbags would be wonderful, but it would also turn the entire world against us in short order, it would be the perfect excuse Globalists need to attack us from all sides and """liberate""" the poor minorities.

>>132806010
At least you tried, chaim

http://i.4cdn.org/gif/1499471296493.webm

>>132781133
Don't know where all these normie faggot libertarians came from, but I fucking hate them.

>>132806060
>They put no effort onto racial pride or spirituality only into amount of profit made.
Not true at all. The difference is we believe in having culture and the power of shame accomplish social conservatism, whereas you believe it should come from government authority.

>>132806224
>the only thing that matters is diminishing the welfare parasitism
>if foreign races proved they no longer did this, then I no longer have an argument against them and would love to have my family blanda with them

Just. No.

>>132800337
Hoppean Libertarian here, never going back. Private property and NAP are white man ideals.
>>132806372
We have more knowledge than you so maybe that's where it comes from.

>>132806472
Whatever butthurt pollack

>>132805194
Natural law also involves me crushing your head with a pipe and enslaving your population to work in my underground mines

Also your getting your definition of modern welfare mixed up with natsoc 1930's welfare. I'll give you a hint your not guaranteed to get it and you physically cannot be a leech and a citizen

>>132806372
There is a balance. I agree with both, with a large focus on "National." since localized systems work best to isolate negative forces (but National Socialism is why we have SJWs controlling "hate" speech)

>>132806060
Julius Evola looks like a cuck, and his wife probably fucked niggers

>>132806554
You want to actually argue over something "aryan"? Your superior intelligence isn't showing.

>>132806436
Welfare parasitism is only one of many issues, and it's currently the largest single drain on the US economy. If there were no welfare parasites we would have enough money to field an army double the size it is now, or build megastructures, or get rid of all of obama's fucking debt, or any number of other monstrously huge projects. Not once did I say that welfare parasitism is our ONLY problem, but it's by far one of the largest and I'd wager that socialist central planning and welfare program expansion will collapse our country before demographic shift will.

>>132806571
They're two conflicting ideologies, and National Socialism allows free enterprise anyway, why not just be NatSoc.

>>132806068
All people have the right to resist tyranny and defend themselves and their rights. America makes it easy with the Second Amendment. If the government tried to tell everyone "hey, turn in your guns within twenty-four hours or else go to jail", the first step towards a fascist state, we'd go fucking APESHIT. Imagine all the dead government officials...

In Europe that's not so easy, which is why fascism has taken root there numerous times

>>132806715
>if the foreigner is an economic benefit, he is based and okay by me

Just. No. I treat all foreigners equally. I will deport them equally.

>>132806558
>Natural law also involves me crushing your head with a pipe and enslaving your population to work in my underground mines
>Yet another NatSoc who doesn't believe in natural law

Welfare is degenerate if given out by a government. Any welfare that is doled out should be done by families of the recipient. If a woman is a single mother, then it should be up to her family to support it or not. We do not need the government taxing all productive citizens for such a thing.

>>132806985
YOU won't do shit, your goverment will do everything while taxing you 40%.

>>132806422
Exactly no effort onto racial pride or spirituality, only money and self centered greedy rights.

Any libertarian "conservative" values are only in theory, in practice homosexuals will spring up and people aren't suddenly going to lynch bob the local store owner if he's one of those "Conservative faggots". Libertarians will slowly degenerate

>>132806889
Because as stated in >>132806201 many NatSocs are emotional thinkers who can be easily manipulated into pushing meta-degenerate laws as long as it appears on it's surface to support their race of choice.

>>132806715
100% agree

I think government has a role of law enforcement and national defense, but all the other bogus programs are a complete drain on the economy.

Wellfare is bullshit - we should offer jobs to the poor, not handouts. We should give the poor the opportunity to provide for themselves instead of throwing tax dollars at them

>give a man a fish, feeds him one meal
>teach a man how to fish, feeds him for a lifetime

>>132807122
I believe taxes should not exceed 20%

>>132807122
If my government would deport all foreigners I'd gladly pay those 40%