MUH FOUNDING FATHERS

>>132692010
The constitution is not a living document, the founding fathers wanted a political system that would last time but keep the basic principles as long as the nation lives. The only reason amendments were allowed to be created was for crisis situations not to be changed willdilly by public feelings and ideology.

>>132692010
Also to answer your question fellow canadian, the united states would cease to exist if it were not for the constitution.

>>132692010
Flag says it all. Sage.

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>>132692010

OP is a triggered nigger because he never actually knew his own father, so the concept of "founding fathers" is completely outside his grasp.

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>>132692010
>living document
>we hold these truths to be self-evident

Yea dawg, my rights change by the day. And I also find it ridiculously racist that all these WHITE people try to put laws and restrictions against BLACK guns. BLACK guns are unfairly targeted by a racist congress filled to the brim with racist old white men. They limit their magazines, their stocks, their barrel lengths, it's SYSTEMATIC RACISM.

Meanwhile, WHITE guns roam the streets with absolutely no repercussions. We should all have BLACK guns and finally be free in this racist country.

>>132693043
>fellow Canadian

My flag is European. Does your browser show a fro flag?

>>132693825
nice freudian slip, you fucking cuck

>>132692010
We arent. Stop generalizing. CRY MORE BITCH PUSSY LIBERAL SCUM HAHAHAH ARENT YOU BUSY GETTING YOUR WOMEN RAPED BY AIDS SAND NIGGERS?????

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>>132692897
The Constitution (document) is a document from the 1970s and 1990s because that's when the latest changes which supercede all earlier versions were made, Anon. I wish all people would not post the images from the 18th Century like they still pertain to the laws derived from this document.

>>132692010
If duels were legal I would challenge faggots like you and kill them

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>>132692010

Meh

https://youtu.be/oYlynMgJjag

>>132692010
I'll bite your John Hancock off faggot

lemme guess, the ol' family tree looks a lot more like a stick than a tree doesn't it? Did your parents know they're related or upon seeing the sperging retard you became was it a pleasant surprise for all three of you? Here's the deal, the process for changing the constitution is amendment, so the document itself is kinda done and settled (see why the bill of rights hasn't changed). The more fascinating part is that you still think women are underrepresented in government. Do women have the right to vote? yes? then they're perfectly represented. Then again the women on capital hill are all batshit insane lizard people from how good they are at their jobs. They all just suck, Maxine waters sucks, nancy Pelosi sucks, Hillary Clinton sucks, elizebeth warren sucks, sarah palin sucks, need I go on? they're all so garbage at politics that hildog even with all the MSM, and the pop culture media, and all the star power in the world couldn't get her to beat trump. Maybe it's time to stop beating this dead horse and remember that at the end of the day you're a faggot op

Fathers keep civilization running, you fucking nigger.
Feminism exists because good men allow it.
Civil rights exist because good men allow it.
Your internet is running because good men allow it.
Your lazy twink ass can't even manage to put food in the table.
Everything you take for granted around you exists because good men ALLOW it.
So you better not talk smack, you ungrateful little rat.

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>>132692010
Because America was designed by many very smart men based on the knowledge of hundreds of failed governments before them.
They laid out a plan specifically designed to not be corrupted like other government have been repeatedly throughout history.

Those men have been replaced by the very assholes they designed the system to shut down and now those assholes are at war with ideas from hundreds of years ago because that's all that's keeping them from taking over.

>>132692010
Women didn't build America, old white men did.

Oh look at the fucking European talking shit about America's founders while he sleeps under a blanket of protection provided by the motherfucking United States of America, who first kept Nazi Germany and then Soviet Russia from overrunning his cuckold country.

Shitstains like this are why non-Americans shouldn't even count as people.

>>132697686
how 2 fix?

Why would anyone want women to be involved in politics? Women are irrational, empathic cunts. Either that or complete psychopaths like Hillary. Or vile traitors like Merkel. Name one good female politician pro tip you can't except Thatcher.

>>132698106
>Why would anyone want women to be involved in politics?
Is Thatcher a good reason?

>>132698020
Just keep the assholes from changing it. The second amendment is the most in danger since the assholes keep making excuses to slowly infringe upon it.

>>132698344
should a government's founding principles ever change to keep up with the times?

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Because the dvent of the American Constitution was the second greatest thing to ever happen to the world. Second only to Aristotle in Rome.

It's literal only flaw, a rejection of the primordial evil that is Altruism, was solved by a peson who loved an affirmed it. Not rejected it.
Ayn Rand. She was thrust into obscurity so Objectivism hasn't REALLY taken hold yet. All we need is our very own John Galt archtype to take the mantle of America. We already have our 'Francisco D'anconia' in the person of Donald Trump. Or so I suspect. 4D chess and all that.

>>132692010
>throwing away your roots and the ideals your country was founded on
No wonder you Europoors are all failures. Show me your flag.

>>132698537
Founding principals specifically? No.
The foundation of any country is always basic truisms that will never change. They've basically been the same since the french revolution: Liberté, égalité, fraternité
e.g. let people live their own lives for themselves, make everything as fair as possible and work together countrymen when needed

Smaller things like laws should change, of course. It's why cocaine is illegal now that we know what it does to people even though it was thought to be a silver bullet medicine 100 years ago.

>>132692010
>guaranteed replies

Europe
2 World Wars
Countless Genocides
Brutal Dictators, Kings, Etc.
US
Saved Europe from Communism/Fascism
Always Democratic
Has consistently had one of the highest standards of living.

Speaks for its self.

>>132698947
>Liberté, égalité, fraternité
= Gun rights?
>make everything as fair as possible
On what grounds? economic? racial? both?

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>>132692010
>ywn be a wealthly land owner in a colony the 1770's
>ywn get tired of being ruled by a king without representation
>ywn get together with your best bros and dream of a new Roman Republic
>ywn spread a philosophy of liberty among the colonies
>ywn start a revolution that would change the world forever
>ywn win a war against the most powerful empire at the time, maybe ever
>ywn celebrate with your best bros by spending years designing the best government structure to ever exist
>ywn help write a constitution that almost every other country on earth will eventually model their government after
>ywn foresee the evils of authoritarian government and forever guarantee your people's liberty with ten simple statements
>ywn found a nation that will grow to be the most prosperous and powerful the world has ever seen
>yw probably n be a great man known in history, but you can be a great man here because of what they did for you.

>>132695317
Massachusetts still allows pistol duels with the governor's permission.

>>132699291
>= Gun rights?
Yes.
Like it or not power speaks in even the highest of civilizations. If you can't defend yourself then you can not defend your rights either. To be unarmed is to be without liberty.
If guns were taken away from the general population I would bet both my balls that we would have true military police within a year.
>On what grounds? economic? racial? both?
All grounds that are feasible and warrant fairness. Obviously you can't treat a child and adult the same since there's a plethora of quantifiable differences but things like race and gender should not affect one's opportunities.

>>132699131
Stop hiding behind your UN flag israel

>>132698255
She's really not that great, she played her part in creating the modern state of Britain, even if she started to realize her mistakes at the latter half of her term and post-PM life she had still willingly played along with the traitors.

>>132699607

The best thing about the American revolution ? They had zero clue what the fuck they were doing and the British Govt. thought it was a epic prank until the casualty reports started to roll in.

>>132699774
>true military police within a year.
We have Military police. some might blame this on armed civilians
>but things like race and gender should not affect one's opportunities.
égalité!

>>132699774
There's also an argument to be made that the State must have a monopoly on organized violence to ensure that all citizens have equal opportunities

>>132700265
>We have Military police. some might blame this on armed civilians
No we have militarily armed police. True military police would be controlled by the federal government and would basically have free reign to accomplice whatever goal they were assigned.
Right now we just have police with more arms than they could ever possibly justify using (even in riot situations there's no police station on earth that could put a tank to real use outside of Tienanmen square) the shift to true militarization would be very very noticeable.
>égalité!
yup

>>132700713
That's simply not possible though.
Even if all weapons are taken away power would still fall at the feet of the guy with the biggest fists.
This idea is why some people call guns "the great equalizer" because even a 100 lb woman can pull a trigger to take down a 400 lb black belt in judo. The strong gain nothing by switching to a gun in a world full of guns. The weak gain equality with the strong.

>>132701008
>The weak gain equality with the strong.
The weak includes the poor, whom would not be able to pay for as many guns and as much gun paraphernalia as the rich, so less égalité.

>>132692010
>living document
Fuck off Hans

>>132701623
Nothing in the world is perfect. It's better to have a population where 80% is equal than 10%.

The only real fix for a problem like that would be a free gun program of sorts and I think we'll both agree that people aren't nearly responsible enough for that kind of shit.

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>>132692010
>Also, stop calling them "Fathers"

>>132700174
And we've been doing that ever since

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>>132692010

weak b8 m8

/saged

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>>132701008
>Thinks taking away civilian's guns means they will cease to exist in the world altogether

Neck yourself fucking retard

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>>132702790
Where did I ever even imply that?

>>132701917
Are we not better than the animals? are we incapable of ensuring égalité in a court of law?
A democratic State run on law, enforced by the State's monopoly on guns, would be less violent and more égalité than a state with 80% oppressing the rest, one of this country's founding principles is the courts, protecting the minority against the majority, to ensure that everyone can pursue happiness.

>>132702926
>Even if all weapons are taken away power would still fall at the feet of the guy with the biggest fists.
>This idea is why some people call guns "the great equalizer" because even a 100 lb woman can pull a trigger to take down a 400 lb black belt in judo. The strong gain nothing by switching to a gun in a world full of guns. The weak gain equality with the strong.

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>>132692010
The founding fathers are rolling in their graves from the muslim ban and deportation of illegal imm....

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>>132692010

>>132703095
I think you mean to say #NotAllAmputees
Pretty sure mass murder is not a basic right
Fucking kill yourself shill

>>132702940
>Are we not better than the animals? are we incapable of ensuring égalité in a court of law?
Look at the world and see for yourself.
In short: no.
We're every bit as cruel as any other creation of nature.
Outside of an absolute (impossible) utopia there's no such thing as 100% equality. All we know from history is to avoid severe inequality. When you end up in situations like the french aristocracy of the 1700s the small minority that rules WILL abuse that power. One of the main reasons that huge power gap developed in france, and in most of these situations, was the confiscation of arms and the centralization of power within the elite class.
Handing power to the government like that is begging for abuse.

>>132693443

Not FP but definitely BP.

>>132703095
muslim ban yes
Illegal Immigrant deports no

>>132703258
>not allowing people from certain countries to move here
>deporting illegals
>mass murder
really jogs the noggin

>>132692010
>women are underrepresented
That's cause this isn't Sweden, you faggot

>>132703037
I don't know if you can read but I was literally saying the exact opposite of what you think I meant.
I said EVEN IF all weapons were taken away as to imply it is impossible.
Because it's impossible.

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>>132703379
Wanna play? I don't, because i'm not a dumb dindu promoting sandnigger shill.

>>132703344
>Handing power to the government like that is begging for abuse.
no matter how representative it is?
>Outside of an absolute (impossible) utopia there's no such thing as 100% equality. All we know from history is to avoid severe inequality.
But the point is that we TRY to ensure égalité
>We're every bit as cruel as any other creation of nature.
Cruelty cannot be the only way to determine if humans are better than or the same as animals.

>>132703680
You can't even into reading comprehension

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>>132703460
my point is

>>132704188
that's a very good argument and a wonderful way to save face on the internet. your mother must be proud

>>132704165
>You can't even into reading comprehension
so much irony

>>132704110
>no matter how representative it is?
A government is only representative when they have something holding them to the peoples' ideals rather than their own. Once they hold the power there's nothing stopping a dictator from making all the promises people want to hear then flipping 180 degree when they have power since there's nothing to stop them.
>But the point is that we TRY to ensure égalité
Yes and a society with at will armament is the best way to do that.
>Cruelty cannot be the only way to determine if humans are better than or the same as animals
If you really want to dive into it we're actually worse since we have the intelligence to do worse things and to understand just how terrible they are without that stopping us.

>>132704188
Spend a few more years in grade school before you try posting again. Being able to read english at a 4th grade level helps in political discussion.

>>132692010
>EU
You can't grasp such greatness.

>>132692010
its a pretty good system -- the only stable one in last 200 years, and the greatest one. every other system invented so far turned out to be shit

>>132704377
You're drunk again

>>132704572
>we're actually worse since we have the intelligence to do worse things and to understand just how terrible they are without that stopping us.
there must be a flip side to that...
>Yes and a society with at will armament is the best way to do that.
perhaps

>>132704846
>there must be a flip side to that...
Every animal on earth has a capacity for kindness in the sense that they protect and care for their own in the same way humans do.

Humans are the only animals that have such an unending capacity for willful, malicious cruelty.

>perhaps
We've seen how your system has worked out from Mao, Pol Pot, the french aristocracy, Stalin etc etc
Centralization of power never works long term because it only takes one power hungry asshole with good speech writers to take over.

>>132692010

hah fuck off jew

I love me some founding fathers.

keeps the jews away.

>>132705232
We've seen how your system has worked out from Mao, Pol Pot, the french aristocracy, Stalin etc etc
>Taking away guns is not equivalent to those systems and leaders. Mao and Stalin's systems were shaped more by interpretations of communism and cults of personality than gun control. the French Aristocracy More shaped by Feudalism and Absolutism than Gun Control. I don't know much about Pol Pot though. :/
Humans are the only animals that have such an unending capacity for willful, malicious cruelty.
>Humans are also the only animals that can construct complex, artificial systems to benefit It's own Species and Individuals.

>>132706029
Reversed the >>>>> opps

>>132692010

>>132702616

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>>132692010

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>>132698020
The States should reassert control. Take back appointment power over senators, grant themselves power to override the Supreme Court and require the Federal government to balance the budget, which would basically cripple the Fed.

Mark Levin proposed several other amendments, to be enacted pursuant to Article V. Yes, his name echoes like crazy but this is a solid idea. The States can take back power, it would be very much like the nation breaking apart into 50 separate countries but we'd maintain collective defense and a common market, as intended from the Founding. Libshits would an hero.

>>132692010
>Why are Americans so so obsessed with their "Founding Fathers"?
You'd be obsessed with your country's founders too if your country was half as relevant as the United States.

>>132697686
Also the founding fathers as well as each president has been considered fairly incredible in some respect.

All are considered significant symbols of their particular times.

One of the basic ideas from the founding fathers was that the basic rights as laid out in the constitution should never be infringed upon, which makes this allegation that the document is 'living' just so ridiculous. If you treat it as living then it means the document itself is meaningless and you can interpreting it however you want. Which is partly what Democrats/liberals in the US have been promoting for years so they could appoint judges that would essentially legislate from the bench since they clearly could not get citizens to vote in favor of their bullshit.

>>132698537
The founding principles as laid out in the constitution are simple and reasonable. Which is why they should never need to be changed.

>>132692010
Kill yourself.

>>132706414
but that would dismember this great empire!

>>132692010
Absolutely pissy.

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>>132706029
>Taking away guns is not equivalent to those systems and leaders....
It wasn't the main point of those systems but it was what enabled them to go off the rails and commit atrocities. Centralized power allows for systems that start with the backing of the people to turn against the people they're supposed to support.

>Humans are also the only animals that can construct complex, artificial systems to benefit It's own Species and Individuals
That's just human capacity in general. We do everything bigger and better than animals and those constructs are just an extension of that basic instinctual kindness. Cruelty is the only area where we express unique thought patterns like malice and revenge.

I've gotta eat now.
Good talk though. Have some tits of civility.

>>132706787
A non-autistic conversation on /pol/.
>wtf
good talk man

>>132692010

>Why are Americans so so obsessed with their "Founding Fathers"?

Because socialism is shit.

>>132692010
why are you so obsessed with a pedophile camel driver?

>>132706661
Not an empire you faggot

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>>132692010
Because the founding fathers were geniuses. The culmination of carefully sociological history and genius tier musing/debating on the subject and you get the greatest nation the world has ever seen.

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>>132692010
The founding fathers literally established freedom

before them America was subject to British tyranny because of some faggot king. America was literally the birth place of independence, where you can say and believe what you wanted. There was no emancipation like that before, in Europe you where just a pawn to your monarchs, but here you where free to live your life as you pleased.

The found fathers are important because they layed the foundation that made this country great. and their example can be used to combat tyranny wherever it may be

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>>132692010
fuck off Sven, go back

>>132692010
The founding fathers never meant for niggers to be citizens of this country, that is why they put-off freeing them for so long. We were supposed to find a solution by either sending them back or creating a reservation for them like the Indians.