ANCAPS ARE RETARDED

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Also for good measure

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"Now, there are consistent libertarians, people like Murray Rothbard—and if you just read the world that they describe, it's a world so full of hate that no human being would want to live in it. This is a world where you don't have roads because you don't see any reason why you should cooperate in building a road that you're not going to use: if you want a road, you get together with a bunch of other people who are going to use that road and you build it, then you charge people to ride on it. If you don't like the pollution from somebody's automobile, you take them to court and you litigate it. Who would want to live in a world like that? It's a world built on hatred.19

The whole thing's not even worth talking about, though. First of all, it couldn't function for a second—and if it could, all you'd want to do is get out, or commit suicide or something. But this is a special American aberration, it's not really serious."

http://www.distantocean.com/2008/04/chomsky-on-libe.html

Murray Rothbard Was An Idiot

http://blog.rongarret.info/2013/03/murray-rothbard-was-idiot.html

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An-Caps are the biggest fucking autists on the planet. How can someone believe in an ideology where they think there should be no laws while at the same time have police to uphold laws. An-Caps are just fucking retarded at all levels.

Austrian economists admit that all of their "science" is based on laws of a world that doesn't exist outside of their own imaginations.

http://bleedingheartlibertarians.com/2013/10/extreme-austrian-apriorism-as-the-no-true-scotsman-fallacy/

>>132674214
"stealing surplus value" is a retarded meme based on anti-scientific labour value theory that was rejected in 1890's, hence wrong and invalid.

Fuck off, sage.

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>muh capitalism is mean!

Natural hierarchies scare the shit out of me too, but they're ethical, unlike anything left of Anarcho-Capitalism.

Sink or swim.

>>132675366
True comrade. Most of them are pretty much the worst type of human being you can find: full of pomposity and self-congratulation over their intellect, yet poorly-read and possessing zero critical thinking skills.

We will bury them.

>>132675554
>labor theory of value debunked
>details later

Just cuz the Mises institute says something doesn't make it true. In fact, if the Mises institute says something, it is almost certain that it is not true.

>>132674214
>Communism shit-talking CCCP
>kys, profilgate

Yeah, even Lenin admitted that it was state-capitalism, but that doesn't make it a genuine attempt at communism, and the most influential socialist project to date.

>>132675659
>implying capitalism is natural
>neglects to explain why nature didn't start until a few centuries ago

>>132675846
Retard. Open a book on microeconomics some times. This is what economic mainstream uses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_utility

>>132674214
>Anyone who is * would be dead in 5 seconds if their ideal world came to fruition

fill in the blank

anarchist
communist
libertarian
fascist
etc...


actually pretty much whenever you have a revolution attempting to change society, a lot of people die.

just saying.

this thread is fags
CNN extorted a person for ratings and you guys are here circle jerking.

>>132675962
It's not shit-talking the CCCP. It's an admission that despite everything you just said being true, the USSR ended up sucking. It had its achievements and we can learn from it. But even the tankiest of tanks admit it was a fail.

>>132676138
I know that "mainstream" (aka Austrian/neoclassical) economists use, once they realized they had to abandon the labor theory of value the classical economists created cuz Marx used it to fuck their gravy train up.

Go ahead and let me know when you find a way to quantify the utility of an icecream cone on a hot summer day. Until then, take the imaginary laws for the imaginary world your theory relies on and shove it up your dumb ass.

>>132676282
Idgaf that CNN outed some dumbass Trumpist who would probably happily dox any left-winger he could find. Neither does anyone else who doesn't suffer from autism and spend all day on /pol/.

>>132675962
>communism is so fucking impossible that even though tens of dozens of nations thought about doing it, and revolted for it, and really badly wanted it, millions of people have tried to try it. NOBODY EVER HAS EVEN MADE IT SO FAR AS TO EVEN AS MUCH AS TRIED IT.

>NOT EVEN ONCE

this meme is so fucking tired, go fuck yourself.

>>132676676
your mom spends all day on /pol/

>>132674214
Surplus value objectively doesn't exist. The Labor Theory of Value has been decisively and one-sidedly disproven. What you ignorantly call "theft" isn't real. You had to make up a nonsnse definition of "value" to justify your criminal ideology, and even then you couldn't fake it well.

Your ideology is literally just criminality. This is why you get smacked off your feet every time you open your mouths.

>>132676531
Nope. LtV is fake. There is no empirical measurement of value except market indication. Period. Communist losers also didn't fuck up anything, they lost every single argument decisively and one sidedly.

>>132677430
>>132677589

>there is no empirical measurement of value period

FTFY

Both the subjective theory of value and the labor theory of value are arbitrary, as serious economists know and recognize. They are also not, contrary to Mises Institute propaganda, mutually exclusive. But to pretend either one is some kind of hard science that has "decisively disproven" the other is hilarious, and the kind of sleight-of-hand capitalist scum have always used to justify their illegitimate power and condition the masses to do the same.

>You will notice that more often than not the supporters of marginal utility prefer to give “examples” about water and diamonds, rather than ordinary mass-produced commodities, that can be reproduced at will. They fail to explain, for instance, why the price of bread in the shops is the same for the hungry unemployed person as it is for the millionaire tycoon, despite the fact that the marginal utility of an additional unit is a thousand times more for the former than the latter. This is conveniently swept under the carpet by these theorists.

http://www.marxist.com/in-defence-of-ltv.htm

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>>132675981
Any ethical exchange is capitalism.

Most other systems are collectivist thuggery.

Words like "incentive" and "legacy" mean very little to you. You are The Borg. The Borg is you.

Why not just be a fascist? Just the racism thing?

>>132678402
>has to redefine capitalism in order to defend it

Solid point bro.

There are no capitalist anarchists.

>The apologists of the “free market” constantly attack the Marxist critique of capitalism. They attempt to ridicule Marxist ideas by simply distorting and twisting what Marx actually said. They deliberately mix up value with market price, which are two different concepts, in order to “prove” the flaws within Marxist economics. In reality, as Marx explained, prices do not directly correspond to value due to the vagaries of the market but tend to oscillate above and below it as if on an axis. They deny exploitation under capitalism as, according to them, profit is not the unpaid labour of the working class, but simply seen as a “remuneration” for “taking a risk” and paying wages to workers before they begin to produce anything. This, once again, is to turn reality on its head. As any worker will testify, it is they who have to work a week or a month “in hand” before they receive any wages, thereby extending credit to the capitalist, and not the other way around.

http://www.marxist.com/in-defence-of-ltv.htm

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>>132674214
>Believing in the value theory of labor...ever
MFW Commies can't into the economic calculation

In the final analysis, all theories are tested by reality. In the period of capitalist boom, these free-marketeers were very much in vogue -- until the great crash of 2008, which ushered in the biggest crisis of over-production since the 1930s. This shattered the theories of “equilibrium” economics, which understood nothing and foresaw nothing. If a market economy is supposed to rest on a general equilibrium with thousands of markets efficiently interconnected by prices reflecting the stable tastes of millions of people, then this has clearly failed. The standard models of marginal analysis, all based on Say’s Law, proved to be bankrupt. Events have shown that the so-called equilibrium model of capitalism, despite its mathematical niceties, is a total folly, divorced from reality, from everyday life. In contrast, today’s events have proved the correctness of the law of value and the Marxist critique of capitalism. Today’s events are ample proof that crisis is not a flaw in the capitalist mode of production, but an essential part of it.

http://www.marxist.com/in-defence-of-ltv.htm

>>132677929
>there is no empirical measurement of value period


Definition of empirical
1 ) originating in or based on observation or experience

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/empirical

>MY EXPERIENNCE IS OBJECTIVE, I SWEAR I DONT EVEN HAVE VALUES

lol, does your mom ever tell you, you are a flaming faggot.

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>>132678789

>>132678796
>lel i put maths on my imaginary free market world so it's automatically sciency

LTV has stood the test of time, and the subjective theory of value doesn't even come close to "debunking" it. It's simply preferred because 1. it makes economics easier 2. it allows the kinds of people who get paid to defend capitalism to make sweatshop labor sound fair.

There are no capitalist anarchists.

>>132674214

Anarchy means no state

Ancap is literally the only form of valid anarchy.

>>132678955
>pretends marginal utility is objective
>zero proof beyond "bourgeois economists said so"
>no critical thinking ability

KYS

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>>132679071
>Maths on markets
>He wouldn't know an Austrian if it hit him in the face

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, wewlad

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>>132674214
That
Looks like it was made in 2009 by a 12 year old

>>132679000
>lol Mises again
And feudalism was an improvement over agrarian slavery. So what?

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P R A X E O L O G Y

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>>132679000
No no no no.

Rich people are bad, brown people are good.

I can't even believe I have to explain this shit to you people...like eugh...seriously.

I.
CAN'T.
EVEN.

>>132679116

Continuing:

You can't force community in anarchy, as you're now making a state.

If people decide to share (taxes), then good for them.

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>>132679065
this
>>132679116
Based Aussie.

>>132679116
Is that why anarchism was explicitly anti-capitalist from the very beginning up until that funny little guy Rothbard came along and embarrassed himself?

>>132679270
Measurement is not objective it is always subject to the observer.

you cant even read right.

you guys are fucking pathetic.

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>>132679270
>pretends surplus "theft" is objective
>zero proof beyond "bourgeois economists said so"
>no critical thinking ability

>>132679389
and bitcoin (anarcho capitalism) is an improvement on leftarchism, whats your point?

>>132676531
>I know that "mainstream" (aka Austrian/neoclassical)
It's actually called neo-Keynesian so you don't even know what are you talking about. Nice try though.

>>132679500

Anarchy has always been no forced state. No masters.

>>132679071
>LTV has stood the test of time
by imploding?

>>132674214

Leftys can't into meme. It's a shame.

>>132679680
>bitcoin
>ancap flag

Autist.

>>132679500
source? milton is the first to write of the anark, in paradise lost. he said nothing aboiut so called surplus "theft"
if you werent the first you are in the same spot you claim ancaps are in

>>132679532
LOL. You are the one claiming to have the "empirical" theory here while I did the exact opposite. Sorry that you confused yourself.

>>132676531
>Austrians
>Mainstream

pls go. The state is so high on Keynes it doesn't know whether start smashing windows or burning crops first to "stimulate" the economy

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>>132674214
Why are leftists memes so forced?
Anarchism has nothing to do with dastardly communism...
Anarchists are redpilled, commies are just institutionalized loserdom

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>>132674214
(((anarcho)))-capitalists

These are left-wingers, they hate nationalism. They want open boarders for all. Literal jewish shills.

>>132679798
>bourgeois economists don't like it
>"imploded"

Not how it works

>>132674360
> t. don't know what is spontaneous order of the market
> t. doesn't recognize the market as the best anarchism ever

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>Inherited small business from my dad
>mfw I'm gonna remain a business-owner for the foreseeable future
Ancoms can have fun larping about their revolution when they're on break, but that coffee ain't gonna make itself~!

>>132677430
>The Labor Theory of Value has been decisively and one-sidedly disproven.
[citation needed]

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>>132679937
>STILL tries to claim bitcoin wont work
>ancomm flag
autist

>>132680118
No we don't. You do realize that the only thing stopping you from creating a private army and kill all foreigners is the state, yes?

>>132680118
Niggers wouldn't be allowed into my private society retard.
>>132680107
Thanks, 1433

>>132680077
value of labor can absolutely be measured empirically.

but this board has ID's I didnt say that.

go fuck yourself

>>132680042
>Pierre-Joseph Proudhon (pronounced [ˈpruːd ɒn] in British English, [pʁu dɔ̃] in French) (January 15, 1809 – January 19, 1865) was a French mutualist political philosopher who was the first individual to call himself an "anarchist"

>He was a libertarian socialist, favoring collective ownership of the means of production by those who used them and worker self-management against capitalist ownership of the means of production.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Pierre-Joseph_Proudhon

>>132680332
Autism and higher IQ... we are intellectually superior

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>>132680271
>>132680290
>It's true anarchy!

>>132680271
>Kill all foreigners somewhere just for being foreigners
Doesn't sound very pacifist
Literally mad max

>>132674214
anybody arguing for anarcho-anything is retarded

>>132680107
Both anarchism and communism aim to establish a non-hierarchical (the inherent, "natural" kind) society.

>>132680515
>anarcho-capitalism is pacifist
top kek, NAP only applies to humans (i.e. white people)

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>>132674214
This is you.

>>132680118
>ancap: get out of my store nigger
>modern nazi: angela merkel says you now go to jail for trying to keep brown people out of the borders of your store
wtf I love ((the civil rights act)) now

>>132680214
No worries. Enjoy for now. We will bury you.

>>132680225
Here you go 600 pages of why you're a fucking idiot

https://mises.org/sites/default/files/Socialism%20An%20Economic%20and%20Sociological%20Analysis_3.pdf

>>132680570
>(the inherent, "natural" kind) society
AAHAHAHAHAHAH this is what leftards actually believe

>>132680461
Exactly when in life did all of the population consent to the state?

>anarchist
>believes in a state just to make real anarchists mad
>somehow thinks this is a solid basis for political thought

>>132680615
how? I thought anarchy was achieved through volunteerism

>>132680436
>value can be measured empirically

This is like the 10th time now that I'm gonna ask for your proof.

>>132680179
LTV depends on every example used to be a succesful business
failed businesses reveal and debunk the LTV for the garbage that is
the workers dont owe all that surplus back to the boss when a business fails.

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>>132674214

what the fuck is this thread

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>>132680615
>m-muh rebolution, Bernie can still w-win you guys!
Daydream all you want, just make sure you're polite when you take my order and you might get a tip :^)

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lmao

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>>132680592
Pinochet wasn't white
Would you kill Pinochet you globalist?

>>132680462
Autists do tend to know a whole lot about their fantasy world, whether it's the Marvel Universe or "free market" land. Too bad expertise on these nonexistent entities tells us nothing about actual human relations.

>>132680104

Kek
Btw, aren't you tired of explaining entitled, spoiled hobby-commie brats eco 101?

>>132680624
>mises.org
>it's an entire book
http://users.wfu.edu/cottrell/eea97.pdf

>>132680332
only an autist would make that image, and most certainly does not have morals

>>132680882
mems

>>132678789
this is the dumbest thing i read in maybe 10 years, holy fuck, marx argues on a technicality? for real?
>it wasn't rape because i only forced a boob job

>>132680943
Why would I give a shit about what happens on the other side of the planet? You are the globalist

>>132680761

you can empirically measure value of labor by a paycheck, if you want proof you might have to go out get a job and measure the worth of your labor for yourself

>>132680971
>said the person whose favorite argument is "no true communism"

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>>132675474

>>132680761
>This is like the 10th time now that I'm gonna ask for your proof.

that is also the 1st time you asked me for proof.
again this board has id's go and check for yourself.

>>132674214
You can't have any type of communism without an infinite amount of resources. Sorry.

>>132681037
What technicality?

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>>132680453
>to call himself
so even proudhon wasnt the first to use it? LOL so you are in the same spot you claim ancaps are in, except you dont even have something like bitcoin to prove yourself

>>132675474
It's called a scientific model, you ignorant monkey. All sciences do this, even physics.

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>>132680461
>t woman

>>132680624
>Mises Institute
>Gish gallop

I can throw big documents around too.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/

Summarize or GTFO idiot

>>132681178
same could be said for modern capitalism

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>>132680594
kek

>>132680748
Absolutely not. You've been hanging around too many ancaps and confusing them with anarchists.

>>132681325
> Chapter Four: The General Formula for Capital
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

this shit is so bad, Soviet Union had to stop using it after 3 (three) years

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>>132680984
Not yet. It's good practice if the right guys show up. Those people aren't here though

>>132680615
>We will bury you.

In what? Hot topic clothes and iPhone casings that went out of style?

>>132681125
>constantly mangle and misrepresent arguments
>have to be corrected so often, you decide to make it a point of ridicule
Right-wing: when it's not intellectually bankrupt, it's intellectually dishonest.

>>132680789
Actually, failed businesses prove the LTV correct, because it proves definitively that failing to underpay employees = failed business. Which is why capitalism is systemically irreparable and must be overthrown.

>tfw you accidentally just gave a great argument against capitalism

>>132681509
>he thinks he's part of the intellectual vanguard
>either has no job, or makes minimum wage

guys, hold me, i can't stop laughing

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>>132681042
>You are the globalist
>(((anarcho)))-capitalist

? ? ?
?
?

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>>132680615
We will nuke you.

>>132681415
because thats what anrchism is, welcome

>>132680225
There is nothing natural about a forced egalitarian collective. In fact hierarchy establishes itself every single fuckin time when more than one person exists at any given place. Equality is a meme.
Sad that i have to point out the obvious. Like telling you water is wet or niggers are iq80 median subhumans.

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>>132674214

>>132681582
>underpay employees = failed business
tell that to all the companies that are well known for paying high wages and outlived socialist countries

>>132681045
>whatever the boss says is empirically correct

LOL! How "libertarian" of you. Dumbfuck.

>>132681325
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/

nobody reads this shit.

marx never even made an argument for communism, the manifesto was a prophesy that never came true. Marx made arguments against capitalism.

but "capitalism sucks, therefore communism" is not a fucking argument.

>>132680971
>expertise on nonexistent entities
>real communism was never tried

I am sure the irony flies completely over your head.

>>132681587
>thinks he has to police anything outside his immediate surroundings
>not a globalist

>>132675981
>competition is unnatural

Capitalism is literally evolution (survival of the fittest) you can measure with dollar signs.

>>132681773
>the boss
Protip: in a market, unless you are a fuck up, you have many job offers

>>132681582
>underpay
source?

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>>132674214
Anarcho-capitalism is dumb because what you'd eventually form is just the same exact thing as a state except you call it a company, you call the leader the CEO, you call taxes rent, and you call the laws the rules of the estate.

Having said that, at least anarcho-capitalism isn't fundamentally a contradiction. Same cannot be said for anarcho-communism, which is somehow many times more retarded than anarcho-capitalism.

AnCom is a contradiction. How the fuck can you have communism without government? Like read a book sometime

>>132681253
It was originally used purely in a derogatory sense to describe political trouble-stirrers. So yeah, the first to actually turn the title into a description of an ideology rather than an insult is relevant.

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>>132681908
Not seeing any arguments.

>>132674214
Ancoms are retarded. People won't voluntarily share you moron, especially if you have a society comprised of random people. Anyone who believes in the surplus of the value of labour is a fucking imbecile

>>132681908
Much of the appeal is on the massive decentralization, allowing to cleanse society

>>132674214
>denying workers the surplus of their labor

nigger they can have 100% of the profit, surplus and all if they create their own labor! when an employee accepts a job he enters into a consensual contract with his employer. he is not being "denied" anything, simply given what he agreed to take. it's a CONSENSUAL agreement, he can leave at any time and go off and create his own wealth!

>>132681980
Against which?

>>132680461
No problem with voluntary agreements.
Thing is i didn't agree to have 75% of my income transferred to jews, muslims and niggers by the socialist welfare state.

>>132674738
Chomsky proving he's an emotionally driven retard again

>>132681945
you know what else is irrelevant? your appeal to history logical fallacy attempting to "own" the idea of anarchism
we anarchy now

>>132681271
>>132681271
It's a scientific model whose underlying assumptions are demonstrably untrue. We can start with "informed consumers making rational choices" on the long list of impossible things you must believe in order to accept your model.

>all anarchists are retarded
Ftfy

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>>132682071
An-cap.
Like >>132681991 said. Half the appeal is it functions as a society reset button.

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>>132674738
>Chomsky
>professional sophist
>academic fraud
Reminder, the main bulk of Chomsky academic credentials are from a theory that is more than likely bullshit; which he has no desire to scientifically explore. He's a hack. A fraud. He's an academic cult leader that argues through sophism. Just look at the very quote you provided:
>"and if you just read the world that they describe, it's a world so full of hate that no human being would want to live in it. "
>" It's a world built on hatred."
>"The whole thing's not even worth talking about, though."
Haha, what?
Let's analyse that a little.
>"If you don't like the pollution from somebody's automobile, you take them to court and you litigate it."
Let's look at the non-libertarian alternative:
>If you don't like the pollution from somebody's automobile, you establish a totalitarian state and make everyone behave that way through threats of punishment
Woah, but COURTS, and LITIGATION!, and LAW, that's hatred! Collectivist totalitarian action are all about love and peace.

Chomsky:
>"The republican party is the most dangerous organization on planet earth"
>I haven't read about the austrian business cycle, but it's wrong, even though I have no idea what it even is, we need central banks, even though I claim to be a true form of anarchist
>Venezuela is a successful socialist state
>We are likely to see a boliviarian socialist revolution in New York following the success of Venezuela
>The fact that language has some aspects that without it would be horribly impractical means that there's grammatical rules coming from genetic factors
>what's that, you found a language that has such impractical aspects I predicted to be impossible? It must be because the computer program used to analyze the data is faulty and we cannot trust it.
How convenient that this man can set a scientific theory in a non-scientific academia which has no concern for analyzing scientific data.

>>132682119
well congratulations by the state letting you live in her you have to pay the rent

>>132682229
And yet nations that use these models don't go bankrupt as fast as socialist nations using the LTV

>>132681773
>empirically correct
this isnt even a thing. you've just suggested an oxymoron.

Correct indicates truth, something empirical is such that you gain it though expirience.

I already gave you the definition of empirical and the source for it itt.

you still apparently have no fucking clue what it means

This is why you cant get a job btw. Because you're fucking retarded.

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>>132674214
>Anyone who is an ancap would be dead in 5 seconds if their ideal world came to fruition
blacks and women usually don't know what anarcho capitalism is about but okay

>>132681428
>state-capitalist country didn't "use" Marxian economics

Hurrdedurrr

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Return to the Gold Standard for an

I N T E R N A T I O N A L D I V I S I O N O F L A B O R

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>>132681991
I can get behind the concept of anarcho-capitalism as being a transition-state that can occur after toppling an destroying a tyrannical government, such as after DOTR (or I guess DOTH, for all you ancaps). But as a sort of permanent society? Not a chance. It would almost certainly turn into a state-in-everything-but-name fairly quickly by itself, or taken over by a neighboring state that wants your clay.

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>yfw

>>132675846
What an ignorant ducking cunt you are. Just like all ancoms you're a moronic loser with nothing to offer and no business acumen whatsoever so you claim that works are being robbed of their surplus value when in reality anyone with a function brain can see that people voluntarily choose to work for a set price and then any profit (which a moron like you won't even be able to comprehend isn't even a given) is then down to the owner to make

>>132679937
>he's seriously attacking cutting edge technology

I fucking hate Luddites

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>>132682431
History and human behavior is cyclical. That cannot be avoided.

>>132676531
>mainstream
>Austrian
I wish.

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>>132682316
>soviet union
>"state-capitalism"
when leftypol sends their people, they don't send their best

>>132682229
>long list of impossible things you must believe in
>workers will seize the means of production
>workers will voluntarily share with my unwashed, useless anarchist ass
>impossible things you must believe in

>>132680271
>no boarders
>kill foreigners
How the fuck are they foreigners if there are no boarders?

Finally my an-com bros are here. Fuck off ancap bootlickers, lets take over this board. You're all just wannabe fascists go join them already dweeb

>>132682258
>reset button
see >>132682431

I actually agree with that sentiment. But that's not really a real political ideology if you know it's fundamentally unstable. At that point, it's not so much that you want to set up anarcho-capitalism, but you're talking about what would occur after the current state gets toppled. You're not really "working toward" it. It's more of a matter-of-fact in that case. There's not even any need to really discuss it if what you really want to discuss is how to topple the current state.

>>132681745
>failing to underpay employees= failed business

"High wages"? If they're still in business, the employer is still paying less than the value produced.

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>>132674214
>>132674360
>>132674738
>>132675201
>>132675366
>>132675474
Anarchism in general is pants on head retarded hierarchy is the natural order of things and might is right
inb4 an anarchkiddie calls me edgy for point out obvious facts

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>>132675366
I'll take the bait.
We don't say there should be no law, you stupid fuck. That's what retarded starbucks anarchists want.

>>132682593
Alright, we're in agreement then.

>>132681797
Good thing nobody makes that argument then.

Of course Marx barely said anything about Communism. Nobody but right wing tards believe otherwise.

>>132682688
anon is here for everyone.

you will either escape or be assimilated.

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>>132682696
Ancaps do not oppose hierarchy. We merely oppose involuntary hierarchy. Please learn about the things you opine on. Otherwise, you look very, very stupid.

>>132682696
Anarcho-capitalism is inherently authoritarian, because YOU are the KING of your land.

>>132681642
There is nothing wrong with voluntary hierarchies. "Natural" and otherwise unjust hierarchies (hereditary, old boy networks) are shit.

>>132680634
>Pledge of Allegiance?
>paying taxes
If you dont agree, dont pay your taxes and watch the tax payers pay to put you in a cage and separate you from our society.

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>>132681908
>He isn't even remotely aware of what a Private Law society is
>He's just going off the name

fuck off

>>132682696
*pointing out

>>132681800

Lol when did I say "real communism was never tried"? Stop arguing men made of straw.

>>132682692
>the employer is still paying less than the value produced.

>the employer is not allowed to value his organizational skills, the risks he took to make the business run, and the constant threat of bankruptcy that employees don't go through -- anything that doesn't go to wages is clearly stolen from the workers!!

>>132682831
you can choose the country you live in anon

>>132674738
Mate, there are plenty of things you could criticize Right-Libertarian academics for, but Chomsky is not the hill I would choose to die on. See >>132682260

>>132682809
>Good thing nobody makes that argument then.
you're making an argument for communism

>good thing that makes me a nobody then.

lol

>>132678344
You and your Marxist buddies really are retards aren't you? If I want a steak I might be willing to pay £15, if I've just eaten a steak I might not even be willing to pay £3. I appreciate logic isn't your strong point but try to actually engage your brain in future

>>132681894
>source?

The labor theory of value, which you and everyone else on this thread have failed to "debunk", contrary to repeated assertions that you can.

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>>132674214
It makes me wonder, if the left is so shit, why do the right-wing keep stealing leftist ideals while purging them of their actual meaning, like pretending to be anarchists while literally not following any principles of actual anarchist philosophy.

I guess being an """anarcho"""-capitalist rather than a just capitalist just wasn't trendy enough. Refusing to step on snakes and non-stop turgid Ayn Rand drivel not cool enough for you?

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>>132682903
No Treason Constitution of no Authority

>>132682831
all hierarchy is inherently involuntary

>>132682289
Kek
Subintelligent commie brat btfo
Time to commit sudoku

>>132682903
You just made my fucking argument by yourself. Your picture shows AN AGREEMENT between two individuals.
I never agreed to be put in a fucking cage for not hurting anyone.

>>132682696
They don't seem to realize that it just turns in feudalism. Ancaps are dumb Globalists.

>>132682690
It could be stable if it became more Athotitarian, in which it would resemble something closer to a Monarchy.
You would have a collection of city states that would ally themselves with a more powerful group of city states for protection. A CEO would have a direct reason to manage and care for the lands that he controls as well.
It basically decentralizes everything then allows things to build back up again.

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>>132682831

>>132683111
Because Nazism is so different to monarchy, right?

>>132682970
First off, you can't. I can't just move anywhere I want. They need to accept me.

Second, let's just concede that your retarded point was valid. So what?

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>>132675366
It is not that there are no laws but it is that those laws, beyond the NAP, are voluntary. Each person would be serviced by the police/fire/etc that they agree to and voluntarily pay for. While it may sound feudal its not. You are removing the special power of the state and requiring every individual to participate on equal footing.

>>132681328
Incorrect. Capitalism acknowledges scarcity and price discovery allocates resources appropriately.

>>132681940
LOL! *You* are the one who needs to read a book. Like maybe reading Marx before commenting on communism, yeah? If you bothered reading anything, you would know that Communism is the stage after socialism, in which the state is dissolved. Not only can you have communism without government, you *can't* have communism WITH government. Dumb fuck.

>>132683111
>>132683111
>They don't seem to realize that it just turns in feudalism
Lol thats where this new anarcho monarchism business is coming from, an caps that are just honest about the end result of their system

>>132681908
Anarcho-capitalism is a synonym for neo-feudalism. Which sounds dope to me.

How can anarchism be any wing, it means you don't want any government
It's basically total chaos
I hate people who say it's leftist
I'm not an anarchist but I recognize one it's pros is the darwinian effect of no laws because the earth will become total fucking war

>>132683050
You literally redefined the word "liberal" to mean socialist because your destitute ideology needs to be rebranded every fifty years due to constant failure. It's progressivism now. It'll be something else before long

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>>132683111

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>anarcho commune syndicalist vs fascist authoritarian capitalist

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>>132682316
>state-capitalist country

Here is a pic of the biggest state capitalist. Explain to me why does the communist cocksuckers post his pics everywhere?

>>132683241
>>132683241
>Which sounds dope to me.
Unless youre a serf which chances are you will be

are there any examples of ancap or ancom societies in history

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>>132683181
Are you retarded? It's fundamentally different?

>>132682012
>poor guy with no inherited capital needs a job to not starve
>getting ripped off is "consensual"

Nope. A choice between death and exploitation is not a choice.

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>>132683111
see
>>132682258
>>132681980

>>132674214
And ancoms are retarded for thinking its possible to keep an anarchist society from moving towards either anarcho-capitalism or statism without the use of force>>132674214

>>132683065
False, for instance you can have workers vote for who there bosses are. This is voluntary hierarchy. The boss would have more incentive to treat their workers respectfully due to his job insecurity.

>>132683242
>no laws
We are right wing, we believe in order. We believe in objective truth and natural law.
We believe you could live in a society with any laws you'd like, as long as you adhere to the NAP.
>>132683377
As close as they came:
United states - ancap
Soviet union - ancom

>>132682283
Which socialist nation "used" the LTV?

>>132678579
Every logical anarchist is a capitalist. Freedom means allowing people to do things for their own benefit at a value they set. Only a moron with no talent who is desperate for other people to do stuff for him because he can't do anything for himself would see it differently. You know nothing about anything and your retarded "arguments" are pathetic. Capitalism is natural just as bartering is natural, capitalism is merely a more advanced version whereby capital is spread out so as to benefit society. This is something that losers like you will never understand because in a world where men have to compete with each other losers like you will ALWAYS come off second best, but seeing as how you're just as greedy as those you claim to despise you have engineer a world where losers like yourself can get as much stuff as people who aren't total losers

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>>132683388

>>132683241
>Which sounds dope to me.

No, it really isn't. Want to see neo-feudalism? Go to a place like San Francisco, where you have a tiny fraction of super-rich kikes that run the show, and underneath them is a horde of shitskins working menial labor and codemonkey jobs while living in tiny shoebox apartments, with the whole system being propped up by gibs to placate the shitskin hordes.

THAT is neo-feudalism. It's basically the end game of what the kikes are working toward in all our societies.

>>132683242
>Left
Collectivist (Libertarian however contradictory that is)
>Right
Individualist(Libertarian)

is how it is organized on the grid

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>>132683388
>Anarcho communism

Lmao

>>132674214

Anarchoanything is fucking retarded

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>>132683315
>parroting Leftcom rhetoric as if you know what the fuck you're talking about
I love it when retards quote the likes of Bakunin.

people who hate an cap philosophy simply don't understand it. it's the free market. that's it. the free market has an answer for everything and it would basically weed out all the low iq dipshits and allow the cream to rise to the top

>>132683473
This anarcho communism would need to become coercive and hierarchal in order to redistribute wealth and seize the means of production

>>132683185
>First off, you can't. I can't just move anywhere I want. They need to accept me.
that is just part of the voluntary exchange

>Second, let's just concede that your retarded point was valid. So what?
if you can choose the country you live in then it is voluntary

>>132683102
>picture
Wtf?
>I never agreed to be put in a cage
No, you're not understanding, everyone else agreed to put you in a cage if you dont subscribe to the laws of the nation.
If you dont agree and you dont want to be placed in a cage then leave the nation. Nobody is going to chase you and force you to come back. This isn't the Soviet Union.

>>132683264
That's just a stupid America-centric ideal. The rest of the world has literally no idea why you keep confusing socialist and liberal together. Nobody else does that. I'll have to learn more about it, but America's definition of political terms just generally comes off as autistic as fuck.

Bear in mind, America also redefined libertarianism as a right-wing philosophy when was really an idea of the left.

>>132674214
An-coms is tyranny of the collective over the individual

>>132683219
>go to /leftypol/
>criticize socialism based on countries that tried it and failed
>hurr that wasn't real socialism
>criticize socialism based on the standard definition of socialism
>hurr you don't know anything go read the manifestos
>criticize socialism based on what you read on the manifestos
>hurr the manifestos aren't the real material go read the other works
>criticize other works
>hurr that isn't the real material go read this obscure work
>criticize obscure work
>hurr why are you reading that obscure work?
...and this is why communists still exist in this day and age: it's a multi-layer system of retardation where you go down the rabbit hole until you find your own unique brand of communism - or come out unscathered if you have half a brain

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>>132683560

>>132678838
And yet people still flee socialist countries to get into capitalist countries. It's almost as if the world isn't perfect but your system is a total failure, as has been tested again and again

Anyone have that one picture that compares statism to ancapism, and it's basically a picture of obongo on one side holding up a sign that says "taxes", and then on the other is CEO obongo with a sign that says "rents"?

>>132683546
>>Right
>Individualist(Libertarian)
In what universe? Conservatism as opposed to liberalism started after the French Revolution.

>>132682970
>you can choose from over 300 flavours of socialism

>>132682688
It amuses me that the only way to take over this board is the only way you privileged vermin ever knew - by totalitarian control from top down, silencing others with overreaching governing entity.

>>132682451
What an ignorant fucking cunt you are. Just like all ancaps you're a moronic loser with nothing to offer and no business acumen whatsoever so you claim that you're being held back by the "collectivist" government when in reality anyone with a functioning brain can see that people are not "voluntarily" choosing to work for less than enough to meet all their needs but rather avoiding starvation and that profit is unpaid labor.

My local warlord took me as a sex slave and I'm surviving just fine

>>132683671
Isn't the ancap """philosophy""" literally based on saying the exact same idea of saying there has never been 'true capitalism'?

>>132683051
>government is established by the few
No shit faggot. The few successfully assemble a functioning government to create a nation. Anyone wants to join, they have to play by the rules. If they don't like it they leave. Nobody is forcing anyone to stay.

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>>132682831
You can't build empires by abiding by the NAP

>>132683671
>need to know what the fuck you're talking about before criticizing shit

>>132683743
then go to Somalia
heard there wasn't much of a government there anyway

>>132683526
Logic is literally outside the realm of acceptable thought to the leftist, dialectics rejects logical consistency completely. This is why its impossible to argue with these people They don't set definitions or anything they just torture language to try to meme their ideas into reality.

>>132683620
I thought you were this guy - 09XPtbi3

This is the soviet union, you're so retarded I cannot even comprehend. NOBODY fucking consented to puting me into a cage YOU FUCKING IDIOT. You're no different than a commie, you should be thrown off of a rotary aircraft.

>>132683826
lolno

There are many capitalist countries, all of them richer in average than socialist countries

>>132682632
>implying non-democratic states aren't private entities

lel

>>132683493
No all humans by nature want power because power equates to survival. Consider who is more likely to survive and reproduce a congressman or a hobo. In the example you listed the workers might acquiesce to be ruled over but that doesnt change the fact they want their bosses position

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>>132683678
>W-w-we are the good guys, we only bomb everyone because they are statistically if they disagree with my special snowflake form of anarchism

This is why fascists like Pinochet despite being a neoliberal. How many member of parilament do you guys have again? None? Is it because you just bomb everyone all the time?

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>>132683842
>You can't build empires
You can't even build a road what empire are we even talking about?

>>132679270
>claims others have no critical thinking ability
>unironically uses the retarded phrase "bourgeoisie economists"

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>>132683155
lol so what?
Seriously, so fucking what? Is that somehow a BITING DEMOLITION of ancap?
'THAT'S OUR WORD'
You're fucking pathetic.

>>132683336
If I was a serf I
A) wouldn't have any anxiety about my family's future because the farm is passed down generationally
B) wouldn't worry about life after death because I can't read and won't ever learn enough to doubt my priest's teachings
C) every 4th day is a holiday
D) tyranny less able to exist than today because the local knight sleeps in a hut just like mine and me and 50 other serfs can just slit his throat whenever we want

>>132682696
You're not edgy. Just a kid who has no idea how much danger he's going to be in once half the world is unemployed thanks to automation.

"When our turn comes, we will make no excuses for the terror" - Karl Marx

>>132674214
>>132674214
Christian love, which applies to all, even to one's enemies, is the worst adversary of Communism.

Nikolai Bukharin

Big hug OP. Love you. I feel the pain of your pointless middle lower urban youth upbringing here's the rub. You are right. Your youth was worthless. The sad thing is the real tragedy is that is produced a worthless person. You would be amazed how competent individuals thrive in chaos and people like you sink. You are terrified of that it seems. You know. I still love you though.

>>132674738
>This is a world where you don't have roads

Ye there would and there were. An urban raised youth can't think of anything happening without some blundering authority directing it. You grew up in a false paradigm

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>>132674214
I bet your a poor , queer fuckwit, And no idea of the non aggression principal.

anarcho-communism is an oxymoron. Its basically communism. But thats okay, a communist leader like pol pot killed over 10 million people for being intellectuals, so you would be fine.

>>132683720
I think you're thinking of the Authoritarian right.The Libertarian revolutions decayed into conservatism around then yes

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>>132683678

>>132674214
>why they are quite literally the dumbest people alive.
Unless they made that image in the OP then they're not quite there yet.

>>132683866
>Somalia
Niggers who don't believe in private property nor the NAP nor the free market, and a society which is a result by a socialist state.
GOOD JOB, NEVER HEARD THAT BEFORE.

>>132674214
I'm Libertarian, not Ancap.

>>132683720
This is why I hate the concept of "left vs right". It is devoid of basically all meaning in modern context.

What it's SUPPOSED TO MEAN is this:
left-wing is focused on equality, rather than natural hierarchy
right-wing is focused on acceptance of natural hierarchy, rather than equality.

Anarcho-capitalism is indeed right wing, because even though they want a stateless society, they still embrace the concept of people naturally rising above others and some people being winners/losers, etc. Compare that with the marxists, who also want to "smash the state" but they want to make everyone equal. Fascism is right-wing because it's all about embracing hierarchies as well.

>>132679389
There is no perfect world you fucking moron. Capitalism is the best thing we've got, it's raised the living standards of the common man far more than any communist theory ever has. Why can't you just come to terms with the fact that you're a total loser and probably always will be?

>>132683975
>fascists murder innocents
>murdering murderers makes you just as bad ;_;
Are you a liberal?

>>132682887
It doesn't matter if u agree or not, give in voluntarily or being forced. Hierarchy establishes itself in every human interaction ever. So egalitarian philosophy is nothing but a meme.
That given, an egalitarian collective of humans aka (((communism))) cannot exist.

>>132683892
>This is the soviet union, you're so retarded I cannot even comprehend.
>maybe your nation is the Soviet Union but mine isnt.
>NOBODY fucking consented to puting me into a cage YOU FUCKING IDIOT.
Did you ask every single person in the nation is they didnt consent? Let me know the source of your (((facts)))
>You're no different than a commie, you should be thrown off of a rotary aircraft
Im very different from a commie. My father has his own business and I switch jobs whenever I want without any government involvment.
Why so angry sweetie?

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>>132683981
>You can't even build a road what empire are we even talking about?
What? I was disagreeing with the Ancap. Europeans would not have gone on to conquer the majority of the world if they played the Ancap's game of the NAP.

>>132684110
>The Libertarian revolutions
They were liberal bourgeois revolutions. Just accept the fact that libertarianism along with communism are products of liberalism.

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>>132684171
There it is. This guy is correct

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>>132683065
Are you actually this fucking retarded?
Let's say I go out with the mates.
We're doing something that my buddy Jim is much more familiar with than I am. So I designate him team leader.
He calls the shots while we're out.
That's a voluntary hierarchy, you dumb fuck.
You and your boss at work is a voluntary hierarchy.
You and the pilot of the plane you're riding on is a voluntary hierarchy.
ARE YOU THIS FUCKING STUPID?

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>>132674214
Unless the use of force is employed to enforce the common ownership inherent to anarcho-communism, it is impossible to achieve. As consequence of this fact, state authority would be required, thereby invalidating the notion that it is a stateless society.

Anarcho-capitalism at least could work in principle, albeit, wouldn't be that great.

Left-anarchism is without doubt the dumbest ideology in existence.
Its adherents cannot substantiate the feasibility and speak almost entirely in wish-washy, idealistic terms. They remind me of teenagers who first learn the definition of anarchism and think, 'yeah, that sounds pretty cool', and come up with an ad hoc belief system for saying why. Over time, they realize it's stupid. Grown, adult left-anarchists must have genuine mental health issues.

Honestly, I do not even feel this way about other (pre-new left) "authoritarian" leftist ideologies, which are at least are rationalistic and materialistic in nature.

I am guessing you made that meme. I really don't know what to say, and I'm not insulting you because I do not see you as a political entity at all, I see a mental health crisis and as a healthcare professional, I realize insults would only worsen the situation----so, if you're over the age of 20, I would urge you to see a psychiatrist and describe your conception of the world through the left-anarchist point of view. They will be able to analyze illogicality in your thought-process and assess whether or not you have a genuine mental illness. Hopefully it's not that bad.

>>132684187
>being this much of a cuck

>>132684074
In that scenario I'd have a whole lineup of AnCom femboi sex slaves. Post a picture of your boipussy, let's see if you could be my bottom bitch.

>>132684150
then why don't you go there and remove everyone that doesn't abide by the nap or the market like a good ancap and create your paradise there

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>>132684320

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>>132681253
Proudhon was a left-libertarian; he believed in synthesizing capitalism and socialism

>>132680177
This. A thousand times. Leftwing faggots can't admit that they're the same as the rich people they despise, just less capable

>>132683050
anarchism has never been left-wing. what you call anarchist philosophy is essentially a bunch of collectivist tribalist hogwash failing to comprehend economics, human nature and freedom itself.

and in the end you get a bunch of dread locked hippie faggots terrorising and enslaving each other over their unwashed genitals because they're left on their own without any understanding of how humans societies actually work, and with an wrong believe of how 'every hierachy is bad, man'. (while sucking stevens cock, because he is the most "alpha" if you can call that degenerate hinterlader that.)

>>132684055
>A) wouldn't have any anxiety about my family's future because the farm is passed down generationally

You would have neither a family or farm. You would own no property and be owned property and any result of you reproducing may be killed or taken from you as the property of your owner.

B) wouldn't worry about life after death because I can't read and won't ever learn enough to doubt my priest's teachings

The concept of a theistic God came about in geographically and historically separate culture because it is a universal valid conclusion of philosophical though.


C) every 4th day is a holiday
You work seven days a week.

D) tyranny less able to exist than today because the local knight sleeps in a hut just like mine and me and 50 other serfs can just slit his throat whenever we want.

And the retribution against you would make saw look like funz

I agree that you are serf material though

>>132683927
dont bellieve what the fascist CIA goons tell you, the USSR held democratic elections.
So does DPRK
And vietnam
And every other "state capitalist" country

>http://archive.fo/piDTq

>>132683973
This neuters the power of the boss though. Bosses will only serve an executive function. They are the clear decision maker. If employees are unsatisfied and want to become boss then they can "run" for the position after some arbitrary amount of time. This is just an example anyway.

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>>132674360
>Also for good measure

I like point 1 and 10 for Anarcho-Primitivism. I can see myself supporting that.

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>ancap roads

>>132684313
Because you said everyone in your country agreed to put me in a cage if I disagree. How does that sound to you? The burden of proof is on you. Show me a study where everyone except me voluntarily agreed to put me in a cage if I disagree.

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>natsoc roads

>>132683601
I have given you a simple question, communist cocksucker - communist cocksucker claimed that USSR was state capitalist country. It was led by rich cocksucker Lenin, after the revolution he cooked up, that makes him state capitalist.
Why are communist cocksuckers using state capitalist everywhere in their asinine propaganda?
Or do you want to tell me that somehow all of those communist cocksucker icons you masturbate over somehow always ever managed to produce state capitalist countries.
Were they all retarded? Do you want to tell me your upper class ass would do better than them?

>>132674214
>look at how stupid this guy is!
>posted by another idiot.

Anarchy is a state you retard not some kind of system. Anarchy is just the absence of order something humanity has been striving for its entire existence against.

Go bury yourself.

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>>132684317
The Liberal revolutions were a product of the Enlightenment thinkers from Great Britain and the soon be USA, Socialism came out of Continental Europe's Counter Enlightenment. Every brand of socialism including yours comes out of this rejection of reason.

>>132684550
Calm down, Pol Pot.

TRUMP FINALLY THANKED ME FOR INTERFERRING IN US ELECTION

LOVE YOU TOO PRESIDENT TRUMP

(it was never fair the Russians got all the credit)

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>>132683678

>>132684385
BECAUSE NIGGERS. Also an-capistan cannot be created by force, that idea is retarded in itself.

>>132684074
>he's going to be in once half the world is unemployed thanks to automation.
>Muh automation is gonna destroy jobs
Just like my industrial revolution animes. Im absolutely shaking my jack boots commie maybe you should take your butt plugs out and learn how to fight before you threaten people on the internet

“The Socialists ask what is our program? Our program is to smash the heads of the Socialists.”-Benito Mussolini

>>132682931
Here, watch what happens when you just change a few words around:

>the king is not allowed to value his organizational skills, the risks he took to make the kingdom run, and the constant threat of assassination or invasion that peasants don't go through - any share of the produce that doesn't go to the serfdom is clearly stolen from the peasants!

Your entire line of argument is the same exact line of argument used by tyrants all through time. May your blood paint the streets red while the workers dance in it as gold.

>>132675981

implying capitalism is natural

>implying anarchism uses another economic model..

>>132683899
Wait a minute, I thought it was all 'crony capitalism' though? ie, governments regulating competition in such a way that simulate the effects of a free market, but while also giving massive handouts to large corporations. There's plenty of capitalist societies in the way ancaps imagine though; they're mostly in countries run by African warlords.

I'll even concede to the idea that free markets as they have been practice can be a useful tool to stimulate an economy in times of need, but it's not an idea that should be worshipped in itself. It's this fetishism of capitalism is fucking cancerous right now.

I see capitalism as analogous to an addictive drug, almost like steroids for the economy. The high can be amazing, but the downer can be devastating. The downer is things when markets get out of control, the housing crash, mass wealth consolidation, corporatism, monopolies, ect. These are realities you can't ignore, and this is not a stable sense of being for societies. We're also increasingly entering a situation where markets have to arbitrarily fake the value of commodities just to keep the markets functional.

Sorry, capitalism as it exists will come to an end eventually.

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>>132674360
you forgot us

>>132674214
You only root for communism because your an non talented broke welfare bludger

Being forced into work and gaining an equal share of other peoples income is better than your shitty lifestyle as of now

commies are fucking pathetic

>>132684778
>workers dancing in the streets
So what will you be doing?

>>132683826
No, in many ways the later soviet union was capitalist. As Friedman said, Capitalism is a necessary, but insufficient condition for freedom.

in an anarchist society people would be free to live however they wanted. In so doing they'd end up being free market capitalists. If some people decided to pool their resources and live in a commune on their own property then they're perfectly welcome to.
Could/would the same be said about people wanting to carve out a free market zone within a communist "non-nation"? Assuming there's no over arching authority enforcing community ownership, participation in the actual socialism would necessarily be voluntary right? If a few people chose to not participate and didnt bother anyone, why not let them live in peace?

>>132683315
I don't. I think Lenin wrote a few good things, but his actions speak for themselves. He is not my comrade.

>>132684525
That in no way contradicts what i said.

>>132684878
Cyberpunk is inherently anti-capitalist. At the very least.

>>132684701
>niggers
then bring your wife and out breed them as you kill them

>Also an-capistan cannot be created by force, that idea is retarded in itself.
then is it unattainable?

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>>132684672

>Calm down, Pol Pot.

>>132680846
I'm a nigger and I blame white people for everything even though I choose to live in a white country

>>132685035
Maybe it is, maybe it's not. It's a great philosophy though.

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>>132684793
>Sorry, capitalism as it exists will come to an end eventually.

Yes but it will not be replaced by communism. Capitalism and Communism are both materialistic, two sides of the same coin. What is needed is a philosophy not centered around materialism. While the material world is important and provides great benefits to man it is not the totality of existence.

>>132685035
Ancapistan is a political system; therefore it can be created by force. It's just the use of force is justified.

>>132684936
wasnt the state allowed to engage in capitalism and commerce? I have heard, from communists (so, you know), that the original plan was for the nation to be communist, but for the state to engage with the rest of the world on its terms. Meanwhile converting other nations to communism, which would in turn grow the communal pot. Eventually this owuld lead to the Communist union states becomeing so wealthy that people would be begging to become communists. Bing Bong Bing global communist revolution.