Is universal basic income feasible?

>Getting paid to sit at home and masturbate to chinese cartoons
So this is how the human race met its end?

>>132674019
No

>>132674019
can your mother possibly handle anymore dicks at once?

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>>132674019
not only feasible but will be necessary
/pol/ is just jellz that everyone else will be getting NEETbux like they are currently

>>132674019

No. Will cause instantaneous inflation in housing. Half the price of your home or apartment is so niggers can't live next to it.

>>132674019
>Is universal basic income feasible?
No.

>>132674019
Only if we finally institute Real Communism.

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>>132674019
Instead of money just give us 60 smokes a week, 5 gallons of vodka, some saccharine tabs, and bread

>>132674019
Is being a retarded communist Jew slave feasible?

>>132675005
Such a rickyfag

>>132674019
yes

Feasible? Probably not, especially given our entire economy's dependence on debt, which requires constant growth to sustain itself. Also, something we've learned from university tuitions is that if everyone can afford something because the government will foot the bill no matter what, the price will balloon. You might think that the solution to this would be price controls, but where that has been practiced, it has ended up in shortages.

Regardless, if automation is our future, it may nonetheless be necessary. We're all probably screwed, but I'm gonna find a way to have kids anyway. It'll be tough, but we can't let society collapse.

>>132675679
Has Ontario implemented yet or is that scheduled for some time in the future?

>>132675754
it's tested on 2000 or so people at about 17k CAD a year. I think the test will last 3 years or so.

>>132674019
>feasible
Define "feasible". Because I won't stand idly by while the government takes my money and gives it to stupid retards for simply existing.

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No, it will eventually be used as a tool to enslave people.

>oh what's that you questioned one of your unelected officials? That'll be a 25% UBI reduction for the next 2 years. Dont bother trying to get a job, you have no skills as it is, you're stuck with us for life.

>>132675754
Trial runs are starting soon. My city is literally the test bed for UBI... And also the former murder capital of Canada; a strange coincidence.

>>132674019
Physically, yes.
Politically, no.

>>132675870
I kind of doubt 2000 people is a realistic test of the potential economic impact.

>tfw remember when I got out of school I worked it out if I could make $22k/yr I'd be at comfortable, modest subsistence
>not anymore!

>>132674019
No.

>>132674019
No because it encourages non-whites to flood into white countries for muh free shit

>>132675988
Is it full of unemployed niggers?

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>>132674019
Maybe someday, but there are always better solutions to the unemployment problem.

It would work in a white homogeneous society without degeneracy aka this would only work in 1930s Germany and no country in the modern day

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If we can consolidate all the dole (food stamps, medicaid, housing subsidies, disability, etc) into one cash payment, that's a good thing.

1) It empowers people to make their own decisions. With a cash grant, the government doesn't paternalistically saying "you need this amount of food and this amount of medical care and this amount of housing"

2) It makes arguing for cuts in entitlements a bit more bloodless. None of this "you're going to hurt all these people by taking away their critical X" everytime we try to reign in costs.

Pic related: no amount of "welform reform" has succeeded in containing actual payments to the poor.

>>132674019
Does it matter?

>>132674019
>feasible
>while the west is flooded by millions of retards

Not really.

I don't support UBI, but the landscape is going to be very uncertain when half of the jobs are automated. The jobs Trump supporters have now will overall be the first to go.
What do?

Who will pay for it?

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>>132674019
No, but mainly because humans require being productive as an axiomatic proof of self worth enabling them to be emotionally secure in their place in society, or in the case of the narcissistic bent to limit their cancerous presence on society

>>132677269 (You)

>>132674019
>Is universal basic income feasible?

no,

public dividend for corporate use of the commons is feasible

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>>132676896
Conscript anyone who doesn't have a job.

>>132674019
Yes, but only in a corporate state where every citizen owns stock in the company

>>132674019
Not with the current oublic debt of the first world no.

Would take a full reset before we could even hypothetically consider it as an option.

>>132677269
>Who will pay for it?

telecom companies, they have to pay fair use for the airwaves their profitable communications signals travel on, last I checked those airwaves belong to America

>>132676380
Students, foreigners, natives, and old people. Would probably be the murder capital of Canada if they actually investigated suspicious deaths rather than labeling them accidents.

>>132674019
No, it's absolutely retarded.

>>132674019
it is the only way to ensure the survival of a meritocracy. as our economy becomes more and more efficient, there simply won't be enough jobs which pay enough to survive on. ensuring the continued ability of all classes to consume also ensures the continued stability of our system

>>132677486
>Would take a full reset

well there are two ways of doing that, we have a war with somebody

or we hang bankers in the streets declaring their interest illegal and void

you know which one /pol prefers

>>132677671
That's where the day or the rope meme comes from :D

It's part of my plan for how to fix the world! :DDD

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>>132674019
Whats more reasonable is a removal of all welfare besides universal health care and replacing it with a negative income tax. A negative income tax differs from UBI by making it so that the more money you earn the less UBI income you would get. It is structured in a way so that for every dollar more you earn you only lose at most 35 cents of UBI. The numbers simply don't work with a UBI, but they do with a negative income tax.

It is definitely feasible, but it will require higher taxes, and shutting down free trade so countries without BI don't undercut us at every turn. The (((global finance system))) will never let that happen though, so I doubt it will ever happen.

>>132674019
yes, if all jobs require the same amount of work. if being a doctor is the same as being a janitor then yes i will work easily, but one is clearly harder than the other, so it will never work.

>>132677627
>No, it's absolutely retarded.

I will extrapolate why, no value comes from government, yet the language of this would assert that somehow government creates value, and useless citizens should beg government to pay them for doing jack squat, because government is such a kind benevolent creator of excess capital they can afford to maneuver around asset reallocation using the worst language possible

GOVERNMENT PRODUCES NOTHING AND IS THEREFORE UNABLE TO PAY ANYBODY ANYTHING

MEANWHILE CORPORATION TRANSFORM THE COMMONS INTO MASSIVE PROFITS STEALING VALUE FROM THE CITIZENRY WITH NO JUST RECOMPENSE WHICH IS HORRIBLE NOT ONLY BECAUSE THEY ARE STEALING BUT ALSO BECAUSE THIS WRECKS OUR ECONOMY BY PLACING AN ARTIFICIAL RESTRAINT ON DEMAND

>>132674019
This is why I hate democracy. The politicians - that don't give a fuck about the future - offer you dumb shits free stuff and you vote for them. Then it all collapses because you failed to remember that 2 + 2 = 4.

>USA population 320million

assuming we give each American what, 15,000? That's a salary based off a $7 min wage.

$15,000 x 320,000,000 people = my math might be off but what's that? 5trillion? This plan would bankrupt your nation when implement in a single year. Can any advocates explain to me how this works? Every single time I see it in the news I see people advocating for it, I see threads here but can someone just do they math and show me how it works? I'm no mathematician but from what I can tell a basic 15k income will ruin America and this is supposed to be an ongoing forever thing? What happens when you raise tax rates insanely to pay for this? The nation just slides further and further into debt?

If someone could please explain I'd appreciate it, otherwise I'm going to write this plan off as another commie shit

>>132677666
>ensuring the continued ability of all classes to consume also ensures the continued stability of our system

I agree with you, but placing language that suggests government creates value should be avoided entirely, instead frame the conversation around dividends paid for use of the commons, like what Alaska does,

Alaska is a republican place last I checked

>>132675916
it's more of an economic question than a moral one

>>132678074
>MEANWHILE CORPORATION TRANSFORM THE COMMONS INTO MASSIVE PROFITS STEALING VALUE FROM THE CITIZENRY
UBI is funded by taking that money by force dummy

>>132674945
kinda like how women working and tax breaks for married couples forces me to make 70k/year just to live independently

>>132674019
Yes, the same way welfare is feasible. Libercucks think the market solves everything, but we don't live in a free market anymore, and there's no reason why money (which is printed and printed and printed everyday) should only be left to the complete dregs of society. Republitards are denying whites the same things coloreds are getting

>>132678153
This could be fixed by making elected officials term 12 years. They would need to think about the long term impacts of their policy choices then.

>>132678154
It's even worse than that in the US. Thanks to the Federal Reserve system, none of the income tax goes to pay for anything anyway -- just to service the interest on the debt. So it actually wouldn't matter in the least if you raised the income tax to 100% or took it down to 0%. The entire UBI system would merely get piled on to the national debt no matter what.

It's so far beyond already bankrupt that not even UBI would make it more bankrupt.

People just don't understand how totally and completely fucked the US, and, by extension, the world is short of effectively a global reset.

>>132678154
The FED does a good job of balancing the money supply

>>132678154
>assuming we give each American what, 15,000? That's a salary based off a $7 min wage.

no, the amount given will be based on the land value and value of transactions that occurred in that state

so if your city buys millions worth of entertainment products a fair commission for those products will be funneled into your local economy, if your state produces some other commodity by means of the commons a dividend of that transaction will be distributed to the public, I believe in Alaska you have to live there year round to qualify to receive the dividend, typically payout is between 1-2K per year, but this is only for use of natural resources, if we incentivize all use of the commons there will be a lot more to go around,

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>>132674019
All people who can't or won't work should be paid a flat rate.
>costs less than the current welfare state that spends more money on administration than benefits
However people who want and choose to work should not get basic income
>this would cause massive inflation as goods and services would simply take a massive hike in order to take advantage of the fact everyone was now X amount richer.

The current bullshit with universal income is that workers should be paid it too..I even discussed this with one of the leading proponents of universal income and pointed out this major flaw due to price gouging and inflation across the board..especially hitting thinkpgs such as rental and property prices. Thus making the poor even poorer. He chose not to respond to this point.

>most people will still choose to work because they will be paid more than a "basic income". Plus when given a choice to opt out it will remove the stigma currently attached to welfare.
Automation is escalating at an exponential rate anyway so something needs to be done in terms of reforming and modernising the welfare state.

>>132678303

fuck universal basic income, it implies citizens are slaves and should never be allowed to stand, if they call it that I would prefer to starve than accept it

>>132678621
>The FED does a good job of balancing the money supply

those fucking criminals can't even do a good job of standing and speaking

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4hDOIFtX8k

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>>132678659
I've got an even simpler solution, we just conscript everyone who is mentally healthy and doesn't have a job. That way they still have to work and contribute to society regardless of whether they want to or not, and it still solves the unemployment problem.

>>132676260
Mass immigration is a separate issue though.

>>132678266
Okay, economically you can fuck off and I won't stand idly by while the government takes my money and give it to you for simply being a useless retard.

>>132677671
>interest illegal
good job dipshit now you're savings wont grow.

>>132678917
And what war will they fight genius?

>>132678975
Your savings already don't grow. Inflation is greater than inflation. If you save money today you're automatically losing it.

>>132679117
This, and it doesn't have to be this way

yes its feasible, but its a bad idea.

>>132678659
>The current bullshit with universal income is that workers should be paid it too..I even discussed this with one of the leading proponents of universal income and pointed out this major flaw due to price gouging and inflation across the board..especially hitting thinkpgs such as rental and property prices. Thus making the poor even poorer. He chose not to respond to this point.

of course they should, but you won't see a public dividend system put in place without a massive struggle because ultimately they just want to make poor people feel desperate and useless, who the hell would accept a "basic income"? why not just provide housing and food while you're at it and watch the poor morons multiply themselves into oblivion, unable to do anything of any value to keep themselves useful and sane

a public dividend solves all these problems because it asserts that corporations owe the citizens in exchange for their right to exist, if they do not fulfill the common good through their existence they can be easily dismantled and prohibited by law

>>132674019
More importantly, can we get the fair tax enacted if we call the tax prebate portion UBI?

>>132678975
>good job dipshit now you're savings wont grow.

my savings grow like mad, but only because I adjust where I keep value, the secret is don't keep it in fiat

good luck dum dum

>>132679201
>yes its feasible, but its a bad idea.

it will never happen, it's immoral

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>>132679108
They don't necessarily have to fight war, but they can if they are needed. In the meantime just keep them building roads and training for war. As an added bonus they'll remain healthy and low maintenance because of the somewhat spartan lifestyle of the army.

>>132674019
ASIA FOR THE ASIANS, AFRICA FOR THE AFRICANS, WHITE COUNTRIES FOR EVERYBODY!

Everybody says there is this RACE problem. Everybody says this RACE problem will be solved when the third world pours into EVERY white country and ONLY into white countries.

The Netherlands and Belgium are just as crowded as Japan or Taiwan, but nobody says Japan or Taiwan will solve this RACE problem by bringing in millions of third worlders and quote assimilating unquote with them.

Everybody says the final solution to this RACE problem is for EVERY white country and ONLY white countries to “assimilate,” i.e., intermarry, with all those non-whites.

What if I said there was this RACE problem and this RACE problem would be solved only if hundreds of millions of non-blacks were brought into EVERY black country and ONLY into black countries?

How long would it take anyone to realize I’m not talking about a RACE problem. I am talking about the final solution to the BLACK problem?

And how long would it take any sane black man to notice this and what kind of psycho black man wouldn’t object to this?

But if I tell that obvious truth about the ongoing program of genocide against my race, the white race, Liberals and respectable conservatives agree that I am a naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews.

They say they are anti-racist. What they are is anti-white.

Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white.

>>132674162
It gives the unworthy people of society a stable existence while the competitive people will still be making much more profit. Also the hard working people are more likely to have the most kids because women don't want a man in the same income class as they do.

>>132679429
>can we get the fair tax enacted

a lot of things have been called this, are you talking about taxing land based on use?

>>132674162
it ended in 1945 thanks to (((Anglos))) and (((Americucks)))

>>132674019
Only in a world where we have a nearly limitless (usable) energy source and figure out how to use it without wrecking our environment. So, no, it's not really feasible.

>>132678943
UBI would replace the current walfare too. You already pay us NEETs a good 30%+ of your paycheck as it is.

>>132679552
>It gives the unworthy people of society a stable existence

we already do handouts and they just make the lowest strata of society angry and violent

any project of this nature has to keep people active and productive, even if they aren't commercially successful they need to be busy or they'll go nuts and kill each other over crack and baseball hats

>>132674019
In the US such a policy would require between 1/4 and 1/2 of our total GDP. There's really no way it would work.

>>132679108
Exactly..employment to justify existence is the traditional lie told to the sheeple, whilst kings and queens sat on golden thrones..now we have the same shit except our new monarchies are 1%er Jews who people rarely even fucking know about.
These (((people))) are born into ill gotten wealth 70% of the time..the rest of the time (((they))) are the first generation robber barons like Soros and (((sir))) Philip Green.
This is why I do so HATE the work to justify yourself..meme. You work in order to sustain the Jews and that all you work for..this is what (((profits))) =
>work is for the goyim. End of

>>132679709
>You already pay us NEETs a good 30%+ of your paycheck as it is.

what kind of cuck gets a paycheck in this economy?

if you really want to live like the rich guys don't make any money

>>132674019
No.

>>132674019
The only way it could work is in a post-scarcity world.

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propaganda thread.
some asshole made this shitty one liner thread, with the sole purpose to keep the topic in circulation.
all the posts arguing for or against it dont matter to OP
the only point of this thread is to make it seem like its actively being considered and viable
remember, propaganda works by repetition.

>>132679518
preach to the choir bro

>>132679815
>even if they aren't commercially successful they need to be busy
Not everybody is a autistic friendless unlikable person like you. Not all of us require a job to keep our life occupied

>>132679868
Why do you say jews instead of capitalists or billionaires?

Do you think a anglo-saxon or a celtic billionaire has your interests in his mind?

>>132674019
work sets you free

>>132679815
Those handouts are not enough, when you get enough money to spend some on entertainment and to buy stuff besides food people are far less likely to end up killing each other.

Still, UBI best works in a homogeneous society where people are more likely to give back to society and not spend all their money on drugs and alcohol such as would do niggers.

>>132674019
No. If you give everyone $1000 (for example), what value does that $1000 hold?

What work was done to establish the value of that money?

At first it will seem like a great thing, hey, $1000 bucks, AWESOME! And companies will think the same thing. Hey, everyone suddenly has more money! AWESOME! ... we can charge more.

Inevitably, the nation that does this will realize, that $1000 is now worthless. And now, everything is more expensive, the currency is worth less, the nation has less buying power...

Of course, they won't immediately understand why their economy is faltering, why they can't compete with neighbors.... they will blame various things, they'll blame other nations, they'll blame their own businesses, they'll do anything but blame themselves.

To correct the issue, they'll try printing even more money, they'll give everyone twice as much, three times as much, and so on. Every time, their currency becomes worth even less, the cost of living continues to skyrocket...

... eventually, it all just comes apart.

>>132678154
But it also means everyone has an extra $15,000 to spend in the economy. In my country that would offset pretty much all of my taxes.

It also means in countries with socialised healthcare systems that we don't have to pay $50,000,000 to keep some deformed, retarded baby alive for it's whole life.

The state spends $35 billion for health and social development alone per year. The argument is that most of the overhead and administration costs would be wiped, people would be fare more cost effective, and service providers would be far more efficient than state services.
So:
-Reduced taxpayer costs
-Better services
-Potentially more money in your pocket

-Hard luck for expensive medical care
-Cost of things goes up.

>>132679709
I don't know what point you're trying to make. Fuck you and fuck your bills, nigger.

The only good commie is a dead commie. Fuck off, fuck you, and fuck your bills, faggot.

>>132680210
>like its actively being considered and viable
Several countries are making experiments on it. Some countries have already seriously considered implementing it.

It will happen, whether you like it or not, And then the retards like you will loose their sole claim to be a "successful person": a job.

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>>132674019

>>132680449
>What work was done to establish the value of that money?
Are you a marxist?

Labor theory of value ftw!

>inflation will happen under UBI

As opposed to nowadays?
Why are you guys so simple-minded?

>>132680501
This endless chasing and game playing to chase the velocity of money theory is really very ridiculous. It's an obvious sign that the real economy is moribund, and piling on 100 more fake money games to get people to spend is not going to fix it.

There are ways it could be improved, but total universal communism is not going to do it.

Onethird of my income is taken in taxes. I dont want the govt to have a penny more

Any nations that implement UBI are going to lose on the international scale to nations that don't. It's as simple as that.

>>132680658

THIS CANT CONTINUE

AND NOBODY IS REACTING

>>132680416
>Those handouts are not enough, when you get enough money to spend some on entertainment and to buy stuff besides food people are far less likely to end up killing each other.

no, giving people money and nothing to do is always a terrible mistake

>>132680416
>UBI best works

UBI asserts that life come from government when life comes from the public who regulates government

you have to change the wording of this if you expect it to get anywhere unless the point is to rile up republicans and you don't care that it will never happen

>>132680267
>Not everybody is a autistic friendless unlikable person like you. Not all of us require a job to keep our life occupied

I didn't say a job, you have to be busy or you'll go crazy, look at the European guild system, it was the responsibility of every guild worker to make sure their elders were doing something during their retirement, so they wouldn't feel useless once they had nothing to do, so they were encouraged to paint, study or write, to keep their mind active, and prevent depression

>>132680552
it will never happen. you losers just need to become capitalists and buy a robot or something. with automation, work isn't needed anymore so it will work out fine. proletarists on the other hand will just roll over and die, i don't see the problem desu.

>>132680774
Ideally I'd like to try a mixed approach, keeping our socialised healthcare (which honestly isn't that bad), but cutting social welfare, and giving everyone $1000 - $7000 instead. Maybe.

>>132674019
Semi serious question, how does UBI work without price controls?

>>132680961
Please explain.

>>132680449
Bullshit. Money is constantly inflated now, but things just keep ticking on

>>132681044
I'm all for you keeping your socialized health care. I'm very much a fan of different countries trying different systems so we can see which ones work.

But in general I would say it would be better to eliminate taxes than to issue more refunds on top of taxes. If people need free money because shit's fucked, then that can be done via make-work programs so that there is productive labor being expended as value backing for the free money.

>>132681009
>with automation, work isn't needed anymore

well I went to an integrated systems conference and apparently the jobs most at risk thanks to automation are white collar jobs, stock brokers and that kind of shit

>>132679334
The people who have the highest birth rates are and always have been the poorest. This is for two reasons. Firstly they are more likely to be less educated and therefore more ignorant and secondly they consider childeren as lottery tickets. The more they have the more likely one will become a premiership footballer etc.
>(((capitalist))) lies about how "anybody" can make it, actually fuel this bullshit. The same lies fuel third world mass immigration into the west.

The other part of the solution to moving society to a prosperous future is education reform. Schools are designed to churn out ignorant worker drones. It's well established intelligence has been dropping continually for decades in the west. Mandatory exams and testing should be scrapped. Forced (((education))) should also be scrapped. Childeren should only be taught language and mathmathics as early as possible. This state should only intervene in early childhood to make sure kids have language and numerical skills.
>all other education should be optional as currently most of it is propaganda and subversive

>>132674019
It's feasible, and its a jewish ploy. It's welfare on steroids and i'm going to tell you why it's going to hurt society if its ever implemented.

When LBJ decided to give out welfare, his intentions weren't to help the blacks or the poor. His intention was to further separate them from the upper class and create a class of people who are dependent on the state. You have seen the moral decay that is niggers these days, they used to be able to have decent businesses in their neighborhoods and had a strong family life. After jim crow and welfare this went down the shitter.

The fundamental problem with any type of welfare program. Is that an over reliance on it creates major problems. If we are to have a universal basic income we will be nothing but consumer slaves. We will never own anything, we will rent everything and not a dime will be given away when we die because we have nothing to give. Universal income will create an even bigger class of people dependent on the state. These people will be unable to raise the capital in order to further benifit their interests whether it be family or the community.

If you believe in universal basic income you are nothing but a no good kike that wants control.

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pay for basic necessities only.
no taxes on basic necessities.
1% annual inflation cap on basic necessities.
and that is how welfare should be.

>>132681267
>I would say it would be better to eliminate taxes

the only moral way to tax is to tax land based on the volume of it's use

this breaks up monopoly and frees up the constraints monopoly places on demand

>>132680416
>handouts aren't enough
>when people are able to buy caviar with EBT then it will fix itself

Lol. It's not a matter of the $ in their bank account but what lies in these people's hearts that causes the issues you see. Giving them untold riches will do nothing

>>132674019
It takes about ten seconds of napkin math to determine that there is no such amount of money anywhere that could be taxed to implement such a system. 360 million people at 12k a year would run over 4 trillion dollars annually. Add to that an increase in unemployment as people just stop working and you'd destroy the economy.

>>132674681
Legit good response

>>132674019
No since wealth is only taken out. Getting monopoly money for free devalues currency.

>>132674019
I was about to type out a response and then I realized that I've been inside this thread over 100 times.

Ever since the >meem war, it looks like the average age of /pol/ has decreased from 16-17 to 12-13. I've known people who quit listening to talk radio and quit getting mad about politics, and they say their lives have improved drastically. Their minds are sounder.

Maybe it's time to leave this place behind.

>>132679516
You'd need to nationalize the construction industry as the US usually does not build them themselves, they hire out companies to build them. It's usually cheaper that way. This would cause a bit of instability.

>>132681453
We sink deeper and deeper into debt, but the place still keeps working. The old math doesn't matter when you have the strongest military and economy in the world

Sure, it's feasible to give people FREE MONEY.

But the very day it's introduced prices will start to inflate massively.

>>132680994
>you have to be busy or you'll go crazy,
There is so many forms of entertainment today. And i can't imagine the news way that will be created in the next decades.

>>132681105
What is your point? Everyone already pretty much as a guaranteed income today, but that income is trough welfare, which is full of red tape, overheard costs and inefficiency. There is also a good amount of corruption. UBI would remove all that and just give every citizen a X with no attachments and no requirements.

UBI will probably not be a reality in the decade, but once jobs start to disappear it will be enacted, i'm sure

>>132681411
Is that the Georgian system or whatever it's called that I saw proposed the other night? This seems a little more worth discussing than UBI which reeks of magical thinking.

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>>132681116
The people are going to get food by necessity, lest they riot and rebel on a massive scale, so whatever solution happens we know that the people MUST get food.

UBI gives people food without any work required, which is extremely wasteful. I understand that automation means people will be replaced gradually, but you can have people AND robots working, especially since new technology tends to make humans more useful anyways. So the nation that says "we're going to feed you AND find something for you to work on" is going to be far more prosperous over the nation that says "we're going to feed you no matter what you do, go ahead and be a leech".

>>132680501
>government gives you 15k
>this offsets the 15k you pay in tax

Do you hear yourself? Where is the money coming from? Do you think this system costing 5 trillion in America while also wiping out half the income tax it collects can work? This is running in circles and slowly moving toward the cliff

>>132680267
Jews are hughley disproportionately represented in billionaires and millionaires. Yes a few goyim are up there two..they are easily identifiable as psychopaths..
>the entire central banking system is Jewish

>>132674019
Is universal basic income feasible?

when universal intelligence is equal
when universal skills are equal
when universal motivation is equal

so, basically when we become robots

>>132680961
This too. Then you'll get the communism style "it failed because we didn't implement it worldwide" excuse.

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>>132681579
We only have the strongest military and economy because people actually fucking work. If that fails, we lose the petrodollar and overnight the US will make Weimar Germany look like Luxembourg.

>>132674019
no

>>132675633
>we can't let society collapse
We not only can, we will accelerate the process!

>>132674019

It will be a necessity in several major economies as manufacturing largely shifts to automation. But the Average Americlaps will fight it tooth-and-nail for their corporate masters as they themselves move their assets to other countries and their operations to automated factories.

Its going to be a nice piece of theater when the blue-collar workers wake up to find FNC not CNN is the one lying to them.

>>132681329
>The people who have the highest birth rates are and always have been the poorest.

eh sort of, highest birth rates these days are mennonites and mormons and weirdos like that, they aren't the poorest although if you break each family up by individual you might be accurate there

>>132681329
>they consider childeren as lottery tickets.
this is a big problem, I've been writing Trump letters demanding he shut down the earned income tax credit, how fucked up is it we allow people to be born because the parents wanted a check, imagine how much better it would be to live in a society where every person was born because their parents decided they wanted a child

>>132681329
>The other part of the solution to moving society to a prosperous future is education reform.

A+++, put it in the hands of the people, don't expect your (((institutions))) to ever offer anything close to a decent education, destroying normal education was a key part of their takeover plan, I support this 100% and also advocate for mandatory asvab testing at at 16

of course the major thing that adds wealth to a nation is industry, and of course what was it the Clintons and Bushes took from our nation and sent to China? our Industry, well the Clintons sent them our best weapons technology as well

>>132681656
>UBI would remove all that and just give every citizen a X with no attachments and no requirements.
But now everybody has a set amount money to spend. What stops a business from raising its prices to the point that those people who live solely on UBI are back to being the welfare class that exists today. I don't see it lifting anyone out of a bad situation.

>people complain about free money
>trillions of dollars were handed to the banks for free
>anon doesn't say a word

>even after trillions of dollars were printed, inflation is still below 2% and the interest rates have not gone up much past 0%

Anons, you're full of shit.

>>132674019
Yes, it is feasible.

Universal Basic Income is:
Welfare (American Socialist-Capitalism)
"Basic Living Wage"(Socialist European Cuntries)
Communism( USSR, China, Venezuela, Vietnam, Cuba, North Korea and any other Communist Cuntries not mentioned)

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>>132674019

No, it's a pipe dream that globalist elites push on lazy faggots who don't want to work as a "solution", but will never happen as it's completely unsustainable and relies on those same elites to stake you financially so you can stay home and do nothing productive other than jack off and play vidya all day.

Basically, it's the fairy tale that keeps the Bernie fans alive, but it'll never happen.

>>132681337
>When LBJ decided to give out welfare, his intentions weren't to help the blacks or the poor. His intention was to further separate them from the upper class and create a class of people who are dependent on the state.

you don't see white areas doing welfare handouts with no questions asked, they have work fare, they get you on your feet until you are happy in the community working, move to a mostly white area it's fucking amazing

>>132681453
No one wants to do this math or they just say "lol we already in debt who cares". I kind of hope America collapses and the pain of it strikes fear into al others about ridiculous debt. We've been living too comfortably for too long and that's how these ideas grow. The debt must be paid through pain and hard work. That is when ideas like lol free money will disappear

>>132682079
>anon doesn't say a word
Are you kidding me? Half the reason I started up on /pol/ in the wake of the housing crisis was to raise hell about this.

>>132681337
To big to fail is welfare for billionaires though. Not only did it not fix the economy it made (((them))) even more powerful.
>but it's the niggers on food stamps..right goy!

>>132674019
Damn right

>>132681453
One would say that children would not get UBI, or at least they should only get a part of UBI. Prisioners would not get UBI.

Tax poll would probably increase after UBI was enacted, but i personally think that a new tax must be levied to pay for UBI. I would bet that it would be a tax on automated companies

>>132674019
No! Get a job

>>132677371
That would be a great idea!
You have shelter, food, friends and an interesting job to do.
And they get paid some pocket money too.
It would work.

Did someone already try to compose army of people who were too poor to support themselves?

>>132681657

yes, China took the philosophy of Henry George in the 1920s and have been kicking our ass ever since thanks to our ((keynes)) rip off scumbag economic system

Trump has been meeting recently with several Georgist type economists, a big change is coming down the pike, everyone here needs to be ready to meme the good shit real and blast the bad shit down the shitter

>>132681713
>Where is the money coming from?

UBI system? make middle class pay more taxes and work more

Georgist Public Dividend system?

comes from land tax on the wall street trading floor

>>132682484
>Trump has been meeting recently with several Georgist type economists,
Any names we should be on the lookout for? I'm all about the meme game if I can be convinced to meme for it.

>>132682393

listen UBI is stupid, just stop, when people bring up UBI change tact to Public Dividend, two or three states already have a system like this in place

>>132674019
Automation has apparently just hit the point at which it no longer creates more jobs than it destroys. If this continues there are eventually two main paths humanity could take: automation or the technocrats saying 'fuck you' to the plebs and abandoning them to scrape a subsistence living together.
The latter would cause severe upheaval and strife.
Honestly lads we need a class war right NOW.

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>>132682433
>Did someone already try to compose army of people who were too poor to support themselves?
Not during peacetime, I don't believe.

>>132682629

I forget but they mention one or two here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLvscDuCud4

>>132681853
The Petrodollar? The US Economy is one of the strongest also because of the actions set up in the early 20th century too. America has a strong econ though what made it strong was history not just work ethic.

>>132682217
All opposition on /pol/ is MUH HYPERINFLATION and MUH FEDERAL RESERVE which is just utterly and completely retarded.

The Western economic system is in shambles because consumers can't consume anymore. If they do consume it's 100% debt and their products are complete shit.

>>132682393
Children will require say half the normal UBI. removing the prison population the cost would come to maybe what, 3 trillion? Adding in the lost productivity/lost tax income as people simply stop working this debt is unserviceable.

A new tax on automated companies leading to price rises? Will this not simply make UBI redundant? Why not just legislate the cost of automation higher than human work and give people jobs? Hell why not just tax the use of trucks to deliver things? These automations have ruined horse and cart delivery! Where do you draw the line for what is automation and what isn't? How many times along the production line will you add another tax?

It's amazing the things man thinks he can control and create

>>132682733
>>132682722
>>132682433
>>132682177
>>132682111

it's happening

>>132674019
Yes, but only if the entire current welfare state is dismantled and if UBI is only provided to the actual citizens of a given country, rather than everyone including whatever random trash washes up on shore.

It's probably a baby-step towards one world government, though.

Only in a world that is 100% white and kept under a strict population cap.
The world should not exceed more than 2 billion whites at any given time.

>>132682066
>What stops a business from raising its prices
What stops it today?

Read this again

> Everyone already pretty much as a guaranteed income today, but that income is trough welfare

>>132682760
>what made it strong was history

what made it strong was and is industry, any economy with strong industry has a strong middle class

>>132682780
But that's literally a direct and intentional consequence of the federal reserve system (aka 3rd or 4th Bank of America depending on how you want to look at it). That was the entire point of the Rothschilds trying to undo the American Revolution.

>>132682484
>Wall Street will finance it all

I wish I could milk this never ending tree of money for all kinds of schemes

>>132674895
>jellz

You make me fucking sick.

>>132682877
And I'll add, Charles Murray of "The Bell Curve" fame supports UBI, provided that the ENTIRE welfare state is demolished, first.

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>>132674019
I like how you're assuming it's desirable

>>132682760
America has a strong economy because it has been the most stable.

Europe was destroyed in WW2
Asia was destroyed in WW2
India and South America have been too politically unstable.

>>132682991
Fun fact: New York State already charges something that might be commonly called a "Wall St. Sales Tax" that comes out to roughly twice the yearly state budget. But then it refunds the whole thing and spends months arguing about the state budget.

wew

>>132682433
>conscript the jobless
Isn't this basically the US military?
>then you get to get your legs blown off, whilst clearing house for greater Israel

>>132682707
Uh I meant *UBI, not the second automation.
Also, it is not feasible currently.

>>132674019
See if you can organize UBI for a neighborhood first.

>>132682946
Wrong. Without the federal reserve dollar and fiat money the global financial system would have collapsed decades ago.

It's because class traitors think the solution to everything is to remove all forms of oversight over the upper classes, who then go back to fucking everything that moves.

>>132674019
I think it's feasible to expand social security to provide a "supplementary" income. I don't necessarily support that policy but it's perfectly feasible.

>>132683299
Why are you defending the predatory global financial system? Occasional corrections are normal and entirely survivable.

>>132683235
Not really. Most do it because they get the GI Bill(Or grant whatever) after they're out for college.

>>132682877
>>132683038

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-guaranteed-income-for-every-american-1464969586

https://archive.fo/Yv8Hv

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>>132683235
Yes and no. It is true that the military is a popular place for ambitious poor people (lazy poor people just collect their welfare). But it is also mixed fairly well with patriots and people who want to kill muslims.

>>132683132
>that comes out to roughly twice the yearly state budget.
thats pretty bad. isnt that supposed to be the richest state? their budget must be fucked

>>132683255
Like in a "Commune"?

Wink

>>132683431
Who pays for it?

The last thing we need is basic income for Jamal to sit on his ass all day while the real people work.

I live in Syracuse Ny, and 99% of the time you see someone hanging out from the hours of 10 am to 8pm they have no fucking intention of getting a job (they are also black, or fucking African migrants), all they want to do is sit back on their section 8 housing while they fuck up everything in the surrounding area.

>>132682811
Money is only as valuable as the wealth it represents. Basic income just takes away it does not produce wealth. IT WILL NOT WORK.

I have a better alternative. We build robot farms able to feed the growing lower class and dying middle class. People on this system should be held to strict guidelines as in no children until they are working again.

>>132682922
Thats not true. There are strict guidelines for welfare and Obamas welfare indebted us big time anyways.

>>132679492
>it will never happen, it's immoral
lots of immoral ideas become policy bruh
we cant be complacent on this issue

>>132682780
the FED has set up a rigged game. The economy doesn't crash bc the FED exists and the economy runs bc the FED exists. They loan money with interest to the governments and banks of the world. The economy doesn't need to be debt based. Saying it does is an opinion, and it's the opinion of the banks

>>132683553
It speaks to Mr. Leaf's point >>132683299

When you let the banks and the government and the media all be on the same corrupt team for too long, and leave the little guy with no real means of redress, then you wind up without oversight on the upper classes.

Instead NY state taxes are absolutely awful and don't cover the budget.

>>132682231
Not what I said at all I didn't say welfare was the major problem. I said it ruined blacks and we are next.

I want to actually implement right wing ideologies into businesses. I'd end kike patent wars in the tech industry, because barring people from competition goes against the idea of free trade. If the car industry worked like the tech industry a standard gas engine would be patented. Let's not even go into the kikery of pharma

>>132674019
I prefer Universal Basic Taxation.

Flat tax with no deductions where everybody has skin in the game.

If you don't pay taxes you don't get to vote.

Time to get this runaway state under some control.

>>132683662
Who pays for current welfare? The middle class. They want the dying middle class to pay for the lower class. Its crazy how stupid these people are.

>>132683662
Instead of younger generations of workers paying for an older generation of the retired and elderly, those same generations would be paying for a massive income redistribution for themselves. Of course social security is already income redistribution, welfare in fact, on a generational basis. It would merely be an expansion of an existing program.

>>132674019

What really needs to happen is credit needs to be abolished and people need to stop obsessing over unnecessary luxury items.

>>132683480
This, and the Great Depression was caused by the FED in the first place. Don't give goys credit they didn't earn

>>132683299
>Wrong. Without the federal reserve dollar and fiat money the global financial system would have collapsed decades ago.

yeah so you're saying if a bunch of crusty old european pedophile faggots didn't exist all the value in America would disappear?

>>132674019
It's a feasible means of collapsing your country.

>>132674019
I think at some point in the very distant future, it will be essential due to the rise of automation. We're going to have to solve a hell of a lot problems before that happens. Like, how to get people to develop skills and actually do things when they have the option to get by without lifting a finger.

>>132683574
Basically. Look at how vibrant and prosperous those are.

>>132683480
>>132683737

Corrections are normal but deflation actively harms the economy thanks to what's called the deflationary spiral.

If you make it advantageous to hold onto money, why would anyone ever spend? If you want to earn money (save) you should invest it in companies, bonds, etc. where the money is used to create more economic activity and it's better for everyone.

>>132674019
The prevailing thought is that machines will eventually do most of the work in society and that there won't be enough jobs for everyone. But many people felt the same during the industrial revolution.

My only fear is that if universal basic income ever happens it will make the lazy even lazier and make people even more dependent on the government than they should be. I work 40+ hours a week and honestly I still feel like I should be doing more work when I'm at home than I am.

>>132683704
>Money is only as valuable as the wealth it represents. Basic income just takes away it does not produce wealth. IT WILL NOT WORK.

UBI is a stupid idea, public dividend is not, the companies that profit from use of the commons should pay for it's use, instead of paying some politician a few bucks and stealing what belongs to the people

robots farms always just end up in private hands, they did this in Detroit it didn't help anyone there.

>>132675005
>60 smokes a week
Nobody can get by on that!

>>132682805
>Adding in the lost productivity/lost tax income as people simply stop working this debt is unserviceable.
People would not stop working. People would simply not being required to work shit jobs now. The worker would regain upper hand in employer/employe dynamics.

Also i pretty much take it for granted that UBI will only be enacted after the automation is at later stages, so jobs would be scarce.

>A new tax on automated companies leading to price rises?
They will put the money back into the economy. Since they now don't pay wages

Wages make about 30% of a company expenditure.

>>132683972
I'm saying money is better off paying for machinery in a factory or building someone's house, not sitting in gold bars in a warehouse

>>132683737
>They loan money with interest to the government

based on the GDP, so how do you pay back your entire worth plus 3%? how is it possible to pay back more than the sum of your worth?

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>>132674019

>>132683884
What does this solve?

>>132683791
>then you wind up without oversight on the upper classes.

until that top one percent owns more than 30% of the wealth in total, then the ropes come out, every time in history so far

>>132683834
>Flat tax with no deductions where everybody has skin in the game.
the only moral way to tax is to tax land based on it's use, land gets used more, has more high value transactions occur on it, then that land must be worth more and thus it is taxed more. if you apply this concept nobody is paying taxes until they close all the trading floors, shut down the casinos I have no problem with it

>>132684129
The point is that you let small deflations happen without a big danger of a spiral rather than rolling one bubble into the other endlessly until the system gets so fucked that you need the fed to keep juicing it until it falls apart. Eventually inflation and deflation become the same thing -- the currency loses meaning and then you get the sort of collapse that could result in mass death, decades of sputtering like we see in e.g. Argentina, various forms of war as a last result, and so forth.

One of the main ways the fed convinced the public to accept its reinstitution after Andy Jackson kicked it out was to run an endless sequence of boom and bust cycles through the "to big to fail" banks of the day. Fake and gay.

So I'm not arguing against a central bank, but if you allow foreign predatory forces to control the system then you're going to get exploited and ruined no matter what.

>>132684243
there is enough value to do all of that three times over, so long as you don't allow monopoly to run rampant and you tax down monopoly to discourage it

>>132684030
The world isnt a magical place were inflation does not exist. You really believe the upper class is going to maintain a robot economy so the masses can have fun money? HAHAHA
>>132684243
Thats not what money is. The gold is only worth money because governments say so. Its a useless metal otherwise. Our currency could be backed by sea shells and it would be the same thing.

>>132684200
>get ma UBI
>don't clean toilets anymore

Yeah this'll be a lot more common than ou think. If you guarantee an income to people I'd be willing to bet half of them don't show up to work tomorrow. Why work when you can smoke weed and watch Netflix all day?

>>132684474
>the only moral way to tax is to tax land based on it's use, land gets used more, has more high value transactions occur on it, then that land must be worth more and thus it is taxed more.
This would be a nightmare to enforce

>>132684561
>So I'm not arguing against a central bank,

isn't it illegal for any entity but congress to issue currency? I don't give a fuck if they think Bretton Woods skates around that, it doesn't and the current relationship with the FED is entirely illegal

>>132684474
Yup. I guess it's been a few years since I reiterated the plan behind the day of the rope meme. But it ends with the conclusion that things as they are are unlikely to stop short of probably even war crimes tribunals (genocide being a class "A" war crime per nuremburg codes, for historical precident). Genocide is a hanging crime.

Typically criminals are not able to stop themselves and require an external force to stop them.

>>132684614
>Its a useless metal otherwise.

it's pretty conductive and non corrosive, makes a potent medicine as well

>>132684638
This. The state is not some all powerful being able to change rates on the fly according to miniscule transactions on some farm in the middle of nowhere.

Half these ideas require some insane government oversight and control and will end in the usual shit we've seen through history

>>132684638

maybe, this time last year everyone was saying Trump would never be president, memes make the impossible become reality

>>132684561
The currency does have meaning, you can go to the store and buy a loaf of bread with it, you can pay your rent with it, you can pay your taxes with it.

Pinning the value of the currency to an arbitrary good that is generally not useful is a poor idea. The central banks try to pin the value of the currency based on CPI which is much more advantageous to our society.

>>132684181
Nobody in power is just going to give you anything. You have to prove your existence its worth a damn so earn it.
>>132684825
Thats fine but its still not worth how much they say it is.

>>132684758
That's what it says in the Constitution, so you'd have to get an amendment if you wanted to change that.

But it by no means prevents a national bank from issuing credit. It doesn't prevent state-owned banks from issuing credit (cf. North Dakota). It doesn't prevent private institutions from issuing credit. Ideally, these work in a balance of powers type arrangement so that combined with effective regulatory powers of the various levels of government (all corporations require government charters, remember; also cf. antitrust laws) then maybe we can manage to bumble along in a general form of chaos rather than living in danger of the whole ship sinking.

>>132684942
Once you hit hyperniflation or massive deflation, or if the government has to step in and perform a revaluation, then, no, the currency no longer has the same meaning it did before.

>>132684802
>Typically criminals are not able to stop themselves and require an external force to stop them.

between pedophile exposure and collapsing and changing financial systems and trade agreements I don't see much problem there, the current elite haven't really trained the next generations very well, they're soft and useless like Nero, setting up our own thing and burning their thing down will be like taking candy from a baby, you'll be surprised how quick it all changes once the happenings start rolling, all it required was an alert and wary public

>>132674019
nigs have more targets, either kill each other more, or push everyone else to the day of the rope

>>132684200
>robot tax

This
>Corporations save billions by having few or zero human workers.
>people get unlimited free time whilst they get paid in dividends from taxed companies

You would basically get a equivalent wage to a well paying job, for not working. You could call it compensation for job extinction.

>people will get fat and lazy
Like we don't have an epidemic of this crap already..things can only improve when you level the playing field and give everyone an equal shot at self improvement. Unlimited time on your hands is unlimited potential, some people will always squander it but most won't IMO.

>the only problem left is the same problem we currently have now...too much wealth is concentrated in a few private hands.
So robo industries will eventually need to be nationalised and we are gonna need direct democracy

>>132684616
You have a habit of not reading the whole posts

>Also i pretty much take it for granted that UBI will only be enacted after the automation is at later stages, so jobs would be scarce.

That is too say, cleaning toilet jobs would not exist anymore

>Why work when you can smoke weed and watch Netflix all day?
Tell me, what would you prefer:

Get 10k dollars ( i don't know how much 10k dollars is worth in Australia) and do nothing all day, or get 10k dollars+ 30kdollars doing 20 hours per week in some job?

Lazy fucks already do nothing all day, but nowadays they sell drugs or rob stores to support their lifestyle.

That is another thing that UBI will tackle, criminality.

>>132685106
Alliance with the military, a key underlying component of the Trump campaign, is also an important thing to maintain in this case.

Historically, militaries are typically needed to assert a force majeure like that.

>>132684419

Less debt and better financial practices.

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you can't make a nation wealthy by giving out money

you can't make poor people wealthy by giving them a lot of money because the reason they're poor in the first place is they have terrible spending habits

universal basic income is a pipe dream and a stupid one at that

>>132674019
If it prevents crime, then sure. Fuck crime.

>>132684988
>You have to prove your existence its worth a damn so earn it.

if the existence of the common plub was valueless facebook wouldn't exist, data is capital

>>132684988
>Thats fine but its still not worth how much they say it is.
well yeah assigning value is a tricky game to begin with

>>132685022
>so you'd have to get an amendment if you wanted to change that.
or just repeal Bretton Woods DC organic act and you're fine, then you can sue congressmen also, citizens in DC are already working on this for a few years, they claim they are unrepresented because the district has no representatives, so they're going to scrap the district then we can sue the FED

>>132685022
>all corporations require government charters
good point, we should work on ending those,

>>132685156
I already covered this. The robot tax is welfare and it already exists. You are rewarding people for simply existing. Think about that? Think about how all these lower class fools have kids in a world that does not need them.

Whoever supports basic income wants to crash the system like a new age communist rising.

>>132685272
>Alliance with the military, a key underlying component of the Trump campaign, is also an important thing to maintain in this case.

I'd like to see us make a few changes here as well, first off mandatory asvab testing for every citizen at the age of 16, second I'd like to see a return closer to the Prussian military model, where personnel bid on assignments which pay differently based on their value and the risk involved

these guys aren't getting paid what they're worth to guard those opium poppies

>>132685299
You would also hurt some sectors that rely heavily on credit; Housing. Cars. Stock market.

>>132685466
>Whoever supports basic income wants to crash the system like a new age communist rising.

agree entirely, it's basically like cheering for your status as a slave,

>>132685371
>never heard of inherited wealth

>>132685590
nah, the system we have now hurts that stuff, whats the fucking point of owning empty houses

>>132685590

Let them fall.

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>>132674019
I think it could be a reasonable idea IF AND ONLY IF all other forms of gibs are taken away.
For example, if shaniqua wants to crank out the nigglets that UBI will be all she gets no matter how many she has, to hopefully disincentivize what is incentivized under the current system.
This would actually be a eugenic system rather than the disgenic one we have now if only people that work can afford kids.

>>132685371
>you can't make a nation wealthy by giving out money

the only way to make a nation wealthy is through industry

>>132685170
I just have trouble seeing automation comjmg into my house to unclog a drain for a long long time is all.

I think you underestimate the corrosiveness of gibs to people. That you think they will rush for the chance to work when they are given money I think is not going to happen. We have dole bludgers here who have no desire to ever make money and are content living off the free stuff.

>criminality
Again I think we disagree because we do not see eye to eye on the nature of man. That he will simply stop his crime if given money, that he will continue to work if given money. This fundamental difference is at the heart of our disagreement and I suppose the only way we will ever know is to see it in action. I think you have a lot of faith in your fellow man which is nice to see but I think you will be hurt by it. I've seen too many idiots do the wrong thing despite never having money issues that UBI would solve. take it easy mate

no way. you see how much we spend on social security multiplied by 10.

>>132685085
The government does not perform the revaluation, the free market does. That's the beauty of it.

There are tools that the central banks have to regulate the monetary system. You are not going to wake up one morning and bam, hyperinflation.

The most important tool the Federal Reserve relies on is interest rates. Even with the free for all we have now, they can't hand out enough loans at a low enough interest rate to increase inflation effectively. What does that say about our financial system?

It means the Fed is out of rope and the US federal government needs to step in to attempt stimulus.

To tie it all together, UBI is a tool that the federal government could use to stimulate the economy.

>>132685774
>I just have trouble seeing automation comjmg into my house to unclog a drain for a long long time is all.

yeah I doubt it will ever do that, but it will replace your stockbroker and your insurance rep not to mention your real estate agent

>>132685430
Data is only useful in a functioning society. Dont fall for zuckerburgs bullshit. He either is ignorant to the idea or wants to rule as supreme leader in some weird technocracy planet.

>>132674019
no
because most of the people that support a UBI won't accept a person starving to death or dying for lack of healthcare or housing
with a UBI there will always be people that will use up their UBI before the next pay period
the main point of a UBI is that there will be a flat amount and no need for complicated supplemental welfare programs
also people really don't want a "universal" income, they want certain demographics to get lots of benefits while others receive little/none

>>132685834
>UBI is a tool that the federal government could use to stimulate the economy.

if you keep calling it that it will never happen, it's entirely wrong using that language and protecting the FED when they're obviously outdated and useless isn't helping you any

>>132685974
The federal reserve is at the point where it is researching what is called "helicopter money", the federal government of the US is so incompetent that they might just have to give citizens free money in order to be able to increase interest rates, or rather keep them in positive territory so the currency doesn't dip into deflation.

>>132685466
>>132685661
You are already a slave in a debt based system.
>cheerleading a Jewish Ponzi scheme is the ultimate goy retardation

>>132685943

well it's certainly possible to pool your data and sell it and keep the profit instead of letting cuntberg steal it from you

data has value, by being alive you create data, but managing that is a big problem if you let the cuntbergs of the world do their CIA bullshit

>>132685834
I think you lack historical knowledge. While the free market (and more typically the rigged market, and then eventually the black market) absolutely has the ultimate force on currency value, a revaluation is something performed and enforced by the government that typically results in socioeconomic chaos expected to be better than the alternative chaos, as well as a power and asset grab by the forces that collaborate to carry it out.

Please look into historical currency revaluations, all the way from somewhat successful explicit ones like the one in Mexico in the 90s to uttlerly disasterous and disorganized ones like coin clipping in Rome.

>>132674895
Who's money do you pay thee people with? What happens when the ones you steal from stop working as well?

Anyone who needs to be on welfare for more than six months is unnecessary and should be liquidated.

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687KB, 1210x1613px

>>132674019
You are asking a country that buys clothes made in sweat shops and electronics made at companies with nets on the roof so their employees don't kill themselves at work to let its citizens do nothing but laze around and suck up the benefits of such horrible practices.

UBI is frankly unethical and disgusting while we permit such things.

>>132686060
Who says im in full agreement to it? Your solution however is worse than the status quo.

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12KB, 350x350px

>>132674019


17:10
https://youtu.be/guWQrIVvGic

>>132686020

there is no such thing as free money, the government doesn't create any value or wealth, the FED doesn't create any value or wealth

the FED just takes and you know they're sitting there wondering why they haven't been assaulted by a mob carrying torches and pitchforks yet

>>132686060
>You are already a slave in a debt based system.

yes but so is the CEO of every fortune 500 company, they're just more comfortable in their position as slave, but their actions are even more restricted than most citizens

>>132686231
You can sit here and be angry, misinformed, intentionally ignorant and ultimately ignored or you can learn about your situation and try to do something about it. Your call.

>>132686148
Wagecucks will continue to work due to social pressure

>>132686177
>UBI is frankly unethical and disgusting while we permit such things.

when you encounter liberal democrats mention this and so far 100% of them agree with me after about 3 minutes

UBI is retarded, public dividend is workable, if it wasn't Alaska wouldn't do it

>>132685774
>That you think they will rush for the chance to work when they are given money
That is exactly the opposite of what will happen. Companies will have to make an effort to find workers. People will no longer be dependent on the crumbs that capitalists throw at them. And that is a good thing i my eyes

> That he will simply stop his crime if given money
No one is saying this. You have to stop seing the world so black and white. UBI will not stop criminality, but i am confident that it will massively diminish it, just like welfare diminished it.

Why would someone risk himself to rob 500 bucks when he get's 10k dollars per year, no strings attached?

Other thing we have to put bluntly is that criminality is directly corroborated with poverty. Attention, that i'm not saying that being poor automatically means you are a criminal, and being rich means you can't be a criminal.

One thing you could be arguing agaisnt UBI was parents who are drug-addicts, and the potential it as for them to have kids merely to receive their UBI

>>132686336
Absolutely ridiculous

>>132674019
It is of you regulate to some low percentage of GDP. But it will never happen regardless, because UBI will eat up at least 20% of tax revenues. Which means 20% less money for politicians to bribe lesser people with.

>>132686396
uh huh personal attacks sure sure blue man group

seriously why don't you go do something useful with yourself

we're trying to figure out how to shut down the earned income tax credit

No. This money will come from the rich, there's no other way. When have the rich every given up their money to us plebs for nothing? Even for their employees they pay as little as possible. And what will they get in return from UBI recipients? Nothing. Jack shit. They'll watch us spend their money on 40s and rims and dumb shit. You think they'll just keep giving us free money? There's trillions in the world sitting in rich people's bank accounts and we don't get it. They're not gonna fucking magically start. Ask yourself what they get in return.

Complete, total and unprecedented control. A slave could theoretically escape to a different country. If you don't agree with whatever they want, you're not getting UBI and free shit. It's a fucking pipe dream and you're naive if you think we're going to all get to magically exist for nothing.

>>132686148
With the rise of automation, people will have problems finding jobs. That is why UBI will be needed eventually as the population continues to grow.

Of course it's feasable. But let me tell you why it shouldn't be feasable, and why the fact that it is, is terrifying: Quantitive easing has turned the economy into a virtual reality simulation of what it's supposed to be. The powers that be (Russia and Iran excluded) have decided that they'll just endlessly loan from their central banks to produce capital injections that prevent a recession from happening when it should (giving the government, or central bank, the money to deal with stock prices dropping by simply buying them when they do). These are loans that don't ever have to be paid back, but are still 'owed' regardles. And ideally, the government in question is able to pay them back eventually.

By being able to freely delay the business cycle's convex, you essentially introduce a cheat code for government spending. There is no limit to how large your injections can be, and it comes without any appearant harm to the economy. This could easily afford a universal basic income.

Of course. The problem is, is that the capital injections need to be increasingly larger due to the increasingly larger amount of wealth existing in the big bubble after every injection. It's gotten so bad that we're currently at a stage of quantative easing that has led to capital injections that are so large that they are practically impossible to even pay back at all in any realistic scenario. So the idea of paying off the national debt becomes something of a joke. A Jewish Joke.

>>132676787
>.
This

>>132686137
If we are at the point where we are talking about the federal reserve revaluating the US dollar, it would not matter because the financial system would have collapsed.

You need to look at the reality of the situation. You should not be worrying about hyperinflation.

You should be worrying about turning into Japan. Their economy has been stagnant for years, their society is slowly collapsing. That is how Western civilization will die, not with a bang, but with a whimper.

>>132686471

why should government reallocate taxes from the only people who pay them in the middle class when the corporate sector owes the public so many back payments for their continued use of the commons?

the whole idea is retarded, the elite didn't spend all that effort making the rest of us poor just to give it back for free.

>>132680539
If you don't pay your taxes like a good citizen, you'll be apprehended like an animal.

>>132674019
Well let's do the math for Canada to get a general idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_of_Canada

OK so that's about 36 million people. From what I can tell you would need rent + $500 to meet your basic needs every month.

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Canada

Let's say the average rent is about $1000 per month. So on average everyone is getting $1500 a month. 1 500 x 36 000 000 = 54 000 000 000. So that's 54 trillion dollars the government now has to come up with.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/govt02a-eng.htm

The governement has a total of 237 000 000 000 tax revenue. They would need to cut services but they could do it.

>>132686600
You're right, I'll stop responding to you because clearly you are more interested in repeating your own opinions over and over again rather than engaging in a conversation.

>>132674019
No. I'd rather die in a war than be on gibs.

>>132686604
>You think they'll just keep giving us free money?

well they're not giving anybody anything that isn't owed, what they owe will be explained to them, they are free to not pay but they may sacrifice their position in the US market to do so

>>132674019
it would bankrupt the nation.
I find it amazing that some multi-billionaire like Zuckerberg thinks it's a great idea. I don't see him offering to give any of us ill-gotten bucks to the cause.

>>132686799
How much more tax would the government collect? A considerable amount.

>>132686763
>the elite didn't spend all that effort making the rest of us poor just to give it back for free.

the smart elite are old and dead and the young elite have inadequate life experience to manage the empires left in their control

>>132674019
Economically feasible? Possibly in a Utopian scenario.

Morally/Socially feasible? No. It is observable today that welfare encourages laziness and victim mentality. On a mass scale UBI would cause a society to degenerate into low/no skill individuals wasting their lives at the behest of the government that provides. There is no evidence to suggest that people would use this free time to work towards their interests or the betterment of society.

>>132685947
This here too. It will never be a simple one off payment with these people, it'll be pay and then we can't let them starve pay more. This is why it'll fail. Unless you strictly regulate what they can spend on e.g. Welfare EBT it will be squandered and you'll see drunks outside starving.

>>132686818
it's ok Canada one day when you come around and agree with President Trump you'll be winning also

now don't forget to take your aids meds before bedtime snookums

>>132687077
you can't give out money with no requirements, it always ends poorly, and the people accepting the money always feel like shit and then act like criminals

welfare is a crime machine

>>132686790
Come and take it.

>>132686983
How so? They're already taxing the fuck out of us. Any more and people might want to live in the US.

>>132686721
The Federal Reserve would not execute an official revaluation. That's a government operation. And at this point in the game I think it's relatively unlikely compared to a de facto revaluation of the rest of the world's currencies in order to maintain the dominance of the US Dollar as the best of the worst currencies. This is a serious matter of national security and represents one of the most important powers that the US maintains.

(Now we have become totally dependent on the system meant to enslave us, and are forced to value it. Who could have guessed?)

Until and unless a new global currency regime is achieved by one means or another, the existing game will continue to be played. The only other outcome is, as you say, a de facto slow deflationary blow out when the game itself can no longer be played. In this case, we also wind up with a de facto unofficial currency revaluation, although by that point a global crisis that exceeds the impact of financial blowout will emerge in order to "kick the board." So that would be a world war or global pandemic or weather event or something of that scale.

>>132686790
>you'll be apprehended like an animal.
this costs more than you can imagine, study the Italians, they always had great cost effective ways of collecting debts

>>132686611
>Automation takes over
>Introduce UBI
>Inflation occurs
>UBI recipients have offspring
>Society crumbles as currency now worthless

GJ

>>132674162
Can anybody think of a better ending?

>>132687251
>Until and unless a new global currency regime is achieved by one means or another, the existing game will continue to be played.

nah, the other reset option is soup lines where most of the cities have to be abandoned because people there are starving

I'm ok with that

>>132687246
Sales tax
Businesses would be selling more product so they would pay more tax

Business owners would make more money and they would pay more income tax

etc

Not through increasing taxes, just through sheer volume of money going through the system

>>132674019
Our country's can't afford to even fucking take care of our vets and you expect them to be able to take on that?

>>132686983
>collect more tax

IF I GIVE YOU $10 AND THEN TAX BACK $5 I HAVENT GAINED $5 JESUS CHRIST THAT LIKE THINKING PUBLIC EMPLOYEES PAYING TAX IS KEEPJNG THE SYSTEM AFLOAT

>>132687342
Or
>automation takes over
>universal income replaces all pay scales
>zero inflation

>>132674019
no it's like welfare on steroids

>>132687423
If hunger takes over, that triggers the "zombie attacks" as for instance one of the DARPA program managers explained to me in the course of soliciting people to design the algorithms to monitor communications so as to maintain control.

At that point, the US economy goes into something close to a freeze, depending on exactly how it spreads and is managed, and then you have the aforementioned conditions for the global crisis of a scale needed to hide some sort of new global currency regime.

So, either way, you get to the same ending (if we just let things continue on as-is).

>>132687526
If I pay you $10 and you pay $5 in taxes, then I've only given you $5.

Thus the total amount of tax revenue required for a UBI program would be less because I get some of it back.

Try to keep up with our conversation please.

>>132687190
It's already taken out of your paycheck by the time it hits your bank account. Otherwise it's included in the prices of everything you buy. Good luck not paying taxes on the gasoline you buy.

>>132674019

this whole UBI concept smacks of democrats trying to beef up their voting pool

whats the difference between democrats and republicans?

republicans sign their checks on the front, democrats sign their checks on the back

>>132680416

>anarcho-commie who isn't a progressive

Damn, you are a rare breed

>>132687914
>It's already taken out of your paycheck by the time it hits your bank account.
Wrong. Come and take it.

>>132687429
Demand doesn't suddenly double as soon as you have automation. There will be competition as supply greatly exceeds demand thanks to the efficiency of automation.

>>132687542
Money is power the elites wont give it to you commie. And if you crash the system to get it you will end up facing a dictatorship.

>>132688121
Let me ask you something

If you give someone a cheque for $1000, where do you think the money goes? Does it go into a gigantic pit and no one ever sees the money again?

If it gets spent on something, someone is paying taxes.

For awhile, then the economy will fail.Encouraging so many non producers seems a poor idea

>>132688121
>Demand doesn't suddenly double as soon as you have automation
it explodes if you tax down monopoly

>>132687251
Start issuing precious metal coins alongside larger denomination currency. Pay off the deficit. Tariffs out the ass. Stop allowing Chinese postage subsidies.

We control the world's breadbasket, the fact we haven't completely raped every other country ten ways to next sunday is shocking.

>>132688256
>If it gets spent on something, someone is paying taxes.

why would you restrict demand by taxing sales? pretty good way to cripple small business

>>132687006

agreed, but that just makes them even more greedy fuckers. They're not giving it up for anything short of violence.

>>132685773
Or investing in industrious people, apparently

>>132688069
Oh, I see, no income. You're a NEET too. Yeah, we've gotta keep what paltry possessions we do have safe, brother.

>>132688416
Not necessarily sales taxes

If the business owner makes enough profit then they are paying income taxes

What do (You) spend money on currently
>porn free
>movies free
>music free

That leaves
rent/mortgage
Food
Clothing
Transportation

Most of your transportation costs are incurred getting to and from work.
After that, how many clothes does a person need if they neither go to work or do much socialising as most of their entertainment is online at home and free.

>In short it's all about housing and food

>>132686799
54 billion you dumbass

>>132688522
Wrong again, lad.

>>132688375
The debt mathematically is impossible to pay off without changing the entire federal reserve system, but it does make sense to keep it from going out of control until we're at point where we could viably change it.

As for the rest, I agree. And PM coins (thx Ron Paul!) are already very easily available even if they aren't in wide enough distribution to be used as currency outside of possibly certain small communities. But that shouldn't stop individuals from taking advantage of that as a partial investment vehicle, and folks can even buy competitively-priced PMs from other countries (Canada, for instance) to gather more material wealth into the country at the same time.

>>132688176
Not a commie but not a dumb goyim either.
>the (((system))) is a blatant fraudulent criminal scam..there is no justifying it, you clown

>>132686396
You defend the system that enslaves you, devalues the WORLDS currency and act all high and mighty. You are he useful idiot they love.
The world got on by just fine without the FED and it's high time we lost it again. They've caused more problems than they've solved, we can withstand a little deflation every now and then.

>>132688588
>If the business owner makes enough profit then they are paying income taxes

the only moral way to tax is to tax land based on use, the land with the most use bears the most tax, city people will hate this, it will basically render the democratic machine defunkt with the stroke of a pen, thats ok the dems can come back as whigs

or maybe carpetbaggers, or scallywags

>>132688256
I'm not saying they won't spend it. We're actually trying to look at a future where there is need for UBI. Not many of these people will have jobs if you look far enough in the future. There may even be less demand because so many are unemployed and can't spen a lot of money.

>>132688953

it is encouraging to see that the FED shill budget is down though, I wonder what country he's really in

>>132674019
no

>>132686471
>Why would someone risk himself to rob 500 bucks when he get's 10k dollars per year, no strings attached?
you don't understand niggers anon, seriously

Unnecessary until full automation.

>>132688867
Theres no justifying basic income you retard. I keep telling you its not feasible but you just backpedal and say what if.... this and that. NO. JUST NO.

>>132674162
fpbp

>>132674681
most underrated response

>>132688310
Actually this is a good idea. Monopoly tax.

>>132688985
>We're actually trying to look at a future where there is need for UBI.

UBI can fuck right the fuck off, oh poor me, I guess I'll have to beg daddy government for a living, since I'm a useless cunt I might as well look to the largest creator of value BIG DADDY CRIMINAL GANG GOVERNMENT

>>132675619

>yes

no