How would a libertarian society prevent slavery?

File: 1499259661052.gif (490KB, 167x250px) Image search: [Google]

490KB, 167x250px

>Cue the Aristotic Music

You see, Slavery, much like an Era is a stage of civilization to prosper. Spain was the largest customer of the slave trade and founded the most colonies within the Americas.

Progression actually led to an era where slavery is possible because through mental conditioning they were made to kick-start. Heave. Support a nation from the ground up. Back when humanity started it was a matter of tribal caste or expectation.

Libertarian Society does not prevent slavery any more or less a Conservative Society. It is merely a selection, a method of labour management.

>>132643869
It wouldnt even try to prevent slavery. The rich would literally force the starving hungry masses off their land. And when they break they would offer them food and shelter for labor.

>>132644781
Shit libertarianism is beginning to look a lot like feudalism.

File: 1498522122016.png (1MB, 900x900px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 900x900px

>>132644909
Oh hardly. These communist kikes would LOATHE Feudalism despite the fact so many of these cucks would white knight for their chance at nobility. Everyone wants to be a noble, so few would be qualified, fewer still would work under such people. They don't want Feudalism, they want "their fair share."

>>132645545
You confuse me anon where did communists kikes come from?

>>132643869

>libertarian
>slavery

Slavers would be arrested because libertarianism is not full blown ancap.

File: 1499310650276.jpg (2MB, 1080x1200px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1080x1200px

>>132646322
The massive tent that is liberalism is not really a genuine liberal engroupe. It is a mass globalization effort towards Communism. If not Communism, Multi-Culturalism. If not Multi-Culturalism, then Globalism. One way or another the control goes towards...(((((them.))))

>>132644781
Libertarianism's whole thing is that no-one can force another to do anything. If the masses are already working on their own patch of land, no-one can force them off of it, regardless of wealth. The rich person in question would have to buy the land from them.

>>132643869
>>132644781

no system goes 100%, the key is not to be idealistic and suddenly it fits together

libertarianism is just the base, it can have other aspects. but its the best base to have

File: 1494532185040.png (183KB, 500x650px) Image search: [Google]

183KB, 500x650px

>>132643869
>prevent

>free exchange among consenting adults from a just starting position, even if large inequalities subsequently emerge from the process.

still sounds pretty good to me. even if slavery was permitted.

>>132643869
Slavery violates the NAP. Nobody ever has, ever will, or will even think of violating the NAP. This is why we need to kill all cops and get the state out of the way of human nature, which is to not violate anybody's rights.

File: judge.jpg (272KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

272KB, 1920x1080px

Slavery is illegal and thus punishable by law. Constitution provides for that. Can't harm/enslave other human beings unless for self-defense.

>>132646773
Then cunts talking full ancap anon. Liberals dont wont gubment so who's gonna stop the slavery

>>132647273
Kek you would be the first to be enslaved.

>>132647358
Are you retarded hes asking about a system without the US constitution, without gubment.

>>132643869
Libertarianism isn't the same thing as anarchism or anarcho-...-ism. In a libertarian society, there would still be laws and a government, just a smaller government than, say, the current US one. Murder, rape, slavery, etc... would still be illegal. There would still be police.

>>132647358
The constitution violates the NAP.

>>132647773

Libertarian, not ancap you roofucker.

>>132644781
Ok, so correct me if I'm wrong but that means we already ARE living in a libertarian society.

It's just that we are the slaves.

To the people on top, this IS libertarian.

They are literally stronger than us and thus they make the rules for us.

File: 1498345403590.png (797KB, 801x762px) Image search: [Google]

797KB, 801x762px

>>132647773
Tell your girl to stop posting her disgusting hairy ass to me.

>>132648187
Libertarianism is simply a means to an end. It's pretty simple. You're either a statist or you aren't. You can't just lick the boot a little. AnCap is the ultimate goal.

>>132643869
they wouldnt

>>132648187
How deep does the libertarian rabbit hole go... libertarians are ancap. There is a difference between liberalism and libertarianism learn it.

>>132643869
slavery violates the NAP
just kill your master

>>132648354
No anon this is liberalism

>>132648529
Kek stamp flag resorts to attacking my geographic location and not my arguments in done with you cunt. Filtered.

File: 1489880347420.jpg (9KB, 425x184px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 425x184px

>>132648969
This. Wtf.. Humans have a right to be FREE and make their own decisions. Whether that decision leads to prosperity or good will or failure and death is ON THEM.

>>132646764
Until the rich person in question buys an army and forces you off the land. Oh wait I forgot these child like political ideals only work if everyone plays fair

>>132648840

Locke's works were pretty much on the money, in fact classic liberalism is damn close to many libertarian philosopher's works. Nozick and Locke differ on many things but the origin is clear.

>>132643869
Kill your fucking master for violating the NAP. Anyone will care of that.

File: mypropertymyrules.jpg (60KB, 350x267px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 350x267px

Libertarians hate slavery. Segregation, however, is A-OK

>>132650509
They are similar liberalism supports government though, libertarianism seeks to remove it. It's almost a direct parallel between socialism and communism.

Socialism works with the govt.
Communism aims to remove it.

If a libertarian society is ever achieved it would have the CEO of the most powerful Corp at the top, with minor companies beneath until they are all bought out. At which point it begins to look like feudalism.

>>132643869
Considering that they really don't believe in freedom, probably nothing.

>>132650749
Libertarians dont care for either its a free market ideology you buy and sell who or what you want from whoever you want. The only borders are private borders.

>>132644781
I don't get this double standard. Even if what you said were true, which its not, the government does not protect you from slavery yet they get a pass. What you earn is being taken from you without choice to support a political class that does not have to satisfy the demand of people in order to profit.

>>132643869
Slavery is Mercantilist in nature. It simply will not occur in Capitalism. =

>>132643869
Isn't it obvious? A purchase acts as a vote. It's not merely an exchange, it's also a sign that you approve of not only the product you're buying, but also every other aspect associated in any way with that product (assuming you are aware of them), and that includes its producer's actions too.

Even if the product that the person who practices slavery products is the best out there, you may still manifest your disapproval of his practice of slavery by refusing to buy his product, therefore seizing to personally contribute towards his ability to practice slavery. Assuming people realize how purchases act as votes and a large majority of then disapprove of slavery then he'll eventually be forced to abandon the practice or limit his potential clients, and as a result his profits as well, to those that approve of slavery.

>>132643869
Who cares?

>>132651981
Even if the product that the person who practices slavery produces is the best out there*
..and a large majority of them disapprove*

Just fuck my shit up

>>132651870
The government and its institutions gaurentee your rights and freedoms if you remove it whats stopping the cunt with the most power fucking you over? Taxation is theft is a fucking meme.

>>132651412
Which is the perfect system. If you have a group of people who dislike another group of people they can use their property rights to refuse entrance or service. And in the reverse if you have a group of people who are largely progressive, they can use their property rights to dissuade behavior like that by boycotting a business that doesn't serve gays or whatever. Hell, if you had people who wanted social security or communes it would work with libertarianism so long as the participation was voluntary.

>>132652177
No need you did yourself pretty well.
The only true question is whether a libertarian society is more likely to follow a model of serfdom or chattel slavery. Or maybe something inbetween like roman slavery.

>>132652458
>implying the richest cunt wouldnt just go full hostile takeover with his private army

>>132650427
Libertarianism isn't ancap. Libertarianism recognises the need of a government to protect the intrinsic rights of people.

>>132646601
>full blown ancap
ever heard of the NAP?

>>132652458
>it would work with libertarianism so long as the participation was voluntary

But it would require a unanimous decision, no? That's simply not a realistic possibility.

>>132652892
*Liberalism isn't ancap
Fixed it for you anon

>>132652244
You are experiencing cognitive dissonance. The government is the being with the most power fucking you over. A private business cannot force you to give it money so it can bail out a bank, but the government can and does.

>Taxation is theft is a fucking meme
It is theft. The fact that people voted to take your money dosn't change the fact that they're taking your money without consent.

>>132652887
How is that any different from the richest dictator going hostile takeover with his public army? You know that private army can only be funded by people voluntarily right?

>>132652887
>implying his army wouldnt just kill the rich cunt and split his money

>>132647273
>human nature, which is to not violate anybody's rights.

Holy fuck. That is, quite literally, the dumbest thing I have ever heard. You have no concept of human nature.

>>132652940
The NAP is a fucking meme, if we lived in your utopia I would use all of resources available to expand my personal empire by any means necessary. What's more others would so the same thing forcing alliances and creating governments in their private territories.

>>132652983
Why would you need unanimous decision? If you don't want to participate you shouldn't be forced to. Libertarianism is simply the belief that force/violence shouldn't be used against peaceful people. Communes exist in Israel and have voluntary participation, although they are economically inefficient.

>>132643869

Be 100% white. Pretty simple.

>>132653527
>personal empire
>government in private territory
HERE COMES THE 'COPTER. In all seriousness, does not work like that ancap is an utopia, a dream. Not a plan. The best we'll ever have is a minimal government, but strong enough to keep people from forming government-like structures and keeping the existing government from growing.

File: cent.png (72KB, 781x576px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 781x576px

>>132643869
>It's a people confuse libertarianism with anarcho-communism episode.

>>132654220
anarcho-capitalism*

It could hardly do worse at it than other societies. Most of the times when there was slavery it was perfectly "legal" in the jurisdiction in which it was practiced. Organized governments were the most grievous promulgators of slavery - theft of liberty. See also theft of life (war) and theft of property (taxation).

>>132644401
Fuck you, cuck. Slavery completely flies in the face of Libertarianism.

>>132654120
I think this needs to be emphasized more by libertarians, that anarcho-capitalism is more of ideal to head towards, not necessarily something we can implement right here and right now without any problems at all. I think David Friedman did a good job by pointing out that anarchism is not necessarily libertarianism.

>>132653124
>implying the rich cunt would be stupid enough to put himself in that situation.
This cunt >>132653062
Made the perfect analogy the private army is no diferent to the public. Even in corrupt dictatorships military coupes dont happen very often. The fact that he fails to see that the rich dude is an authoritarian dictator a (king) is beyond me.

The real answer is that the NAP prohibits involuntary servitude because stealing someone's body is a violation of property rights. All of us know this.

If one were to have children, though, or otherwise convince someone to transfer ownership of their body to you, slavery is completely permissible. I don't see anything wrong with this. People should be allowed to make their children slaves, own them, sell them and otherwise act in the market for slaves.

I visualize a world where many people own themselves, able to personally utilize their rights under the social contract of the NAP, yet many others are owned, perhaps from birth, and serve as property to the will of another, unable to own property from the viewpoint of any higher-level agent.

>>132653313
Exactly if we lived in this ancap utopia id have a Harem of female house slaves for cooking cleaning and fucking. A private army to protect my shit, and slave labour to produce my goods, in fact my goods would probably be slaves, is also produce marijuana and alcohol because that shit makes money.

>>132653715
>implying I wouldn't enslave white hunnies

>>132652681
I don't get it, why would it necessarily have to have any form of slavery? As I've explained purchases can act as "votes" or more accurately a sign of approval by each individual that they approve and support the continuation of not only the product, but the way the product is produced (Worker's rights) as well as the producer's actions and choices. So that means that if slavery does surface it will have done so with the approval of a large enough part of society itself. But even then, if the part of society that doesn't approve of slavery (and chooses to manifest that in their purchasing choices) is large enough that puts an important limit on the slave-owner producer, which opens the door to him being surpassed in sales (assuming he was even the top one at the time) by another producer, backed by the people who don't approve of slavery, who will then have the capability of investing into his product with his ever increasing profit and offering a better one than the slave-owner producer, at which point the slave-owner's clients will have no reason to be buying from him anymore, nor will he ever be able to compete with the producer that has surpassed him as long as he is "restricted" by the fact that he's a slave owner.

What the fuck am I even saying at this point?

>>132653029
Liberalism isn't libertarianism.

>>132654120
You've been here too long anon, you've realised libertarianism isnt possible. Your a liberal. If you want any government at all your a liberal.

A lot of people here don't understand what it is to be an Ancap. The basic tenets of ANCAP are as follows.
-Governments we have are illegitimate
-Taxation is theft, govt funding needs to be voluntary, abandoning it for private charity is even preferable.
-No one can violate your natural rights - which means slavery is illegal. How? Because the existing govt enforces the NAP, that's how.
-The seperation of govt and economics. No central bank can force you to use fiet currency. No banker-influenced politician can interfere with the economy.
Pretty much this

File: Voluntary exchange.png (150KB, 1367x553px) Image search: [Google]

150KB, 1367x553px

>>132654395
>The fact that he fails to see that the rich dude is an authoritarian dictator a (king) is beyond me.
I've said it multiple times. The only way a capitalist can profit, is by satisfying the demand of someone with either a good or service via voluntary exchange. This is not authoritarian at all.

You could argue that once a private defense agency increased in size it would seek to coerce people, but market forces like competition actively prevent that from happening, and the alternative is hardly difference because the government can coerce people to the same extent and more.

>>132654379
But it's not illegal in a libertarian society.

>>132654701
>NAP prohibits

And people don't care about principles have to say. If cost of breaking contract X risk of getting caught < profit from breaking contract; why not break the law.

Ancaps only think in terms of property, crimes that destroy social capital/trust don't violate NAP.

Why I'm not an ancap anymore. It might work for a homogeneous society of 120+ IQ people but average people thrown on an island will form a hierarchy including the use of force pretty damn fast.

>>132655209
No government is a cap. Libertarianism is center right. Where as a cap is far right. Google Andrew Ryan.

>>132643869
by enforcing against it with the state police and military. libertarianism is not anarchy.

>>132654757
or you'd be a slave. freedom comes at a price, and it is the freedom of everyone that isn't part of the real society in which those who respect each other as agents under the NAP interact.

In the present reality, all non-human animals, intelligent or not, are the same thing. In the relatively libertarian western world, only a very few radicals shout to no avail about extending the real world's NAP to animals. It's not so different, in my imagination, to see a world not unlike that of H. G. Wells' The Time Machine's future realm, where an oligarchy of the rights-endowed race lives the best life imaginable after centuries of free-market genetics, and everything else is nothing but dumb, agentless matter.

>>132655350
>The only way a capitalist can profit, is by satisfying the demand of someone with either a good or service via voluntary exchange.

There are no "capitalists" there are only people. And tons of people spin the wheel of fate to profit for a lifetime based on fraud not being discovered and charged in time.

>>132655410
>Hire private defense agency to protect me
>Fictional supervillain you imagine tries to enslave me
>Private defense agency backed by a private court system protects me and puts you in jail for trying to violate my property rights

Slavery is not allowed by the NAP unless a person becomes a slave voluntarily or in some cases the person becoming enslaved does not fall within the protection of the NAP
such as someone who has violated the NAP previously and is now being manhunted or a fetus that has not been fully developed(unless otherwise stated by the commune or microstate that it was conceived in)

>>132655023
Your saying people would boycott my slaves out of moral disagreement and buy them. I'm of the opinion it would appear regardless, the people with absolutely nothing as more and more wealth and resources collect at the top would let people occupy their land for labour (serfdom), or feed and house them for labour (slavery).

I think Agriculture moguls would opt for serfdom model, manufacturing moguls the slavery model.

anarchy is a mental illness

>>132655077
I know

>>132655428
You're not wrong, anon. That's why nothing will happen in this world until the inevitable reality that everyone with less than 120 IQ dies off in the face of some environmental, evolutionary pressure, a catastrophe yet unforseen, or perhaps closer than most realize.

Only then will humanity achieve the true utopia of a stateless society governed only be market forces and property rights.

>>132655428
>Ancaps only think in terms of property, crimes that destroy social capital/trust don't violate NAP.
Fraud violates the NAP, see title-transfer theory of contracts. Fraud also damages a business' reputation, if McDonalds commits fraud and lies about something, less people will buy from them killing future profit.

>>132655755
I do not necessarily agree with this. What do when you have a private defence agency that is islamic, and is backed by a private sharia court. And they put your defence agency in jail for turning their backs from the holy law?
Private justice won't do. You need one solid justice system that bases itself on one spesific set of laws. That's where the NAP comes in action.

"ANARCHOS" DOESN'T MEAN "WITHOUT RULES" YOU DUMB FUCK

>>132655307
Have you ever questioned your own ideology anon, actually sat down taken off the rose coloured glasses and pulled it apart.

>>132655350
If we went ancap to morrow who's running the show, who has the resources?

>>132655428
>>132656443
This is also true, but the reality is that all humans won't realize the true connection between fraud and property, that a contract is the only legitimate transfer of property between agents, until such time as a stateless society is realized.

>>132655428
>If cost of breaking contract X risk of getting caught < profit from breaking contract; why not break the law.
Break the NAP and they'll throw you off a helicopter, how about that.
(Infinity * riskOfCaught) is always going to be > profit from breaking the NAP.

>>132656443

And at what point can you sue writers for bad life advice that tickles the ear? People get wealthy and pursue hedonism, next generation from broken families, revolutionaries form that overwhelm private defense forces.

>>132655755
>implying I wouldn't just throw my sheckles at the judge to let me off,
which I wouldn't even need to do behind closed doors.

File: 1468319417521.jpg (57KB, 295x720px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 295x720px

>>132643869
Why would a libertarian society prevent slavery?

>>132656098
Yeah, you can either buy them and then set them free, or if the slave-owner is not wiling to sell them then stop buying the products by which he is able to sustain his slaves and of course himself. Also, why would boycott not work against the rich? You realize that, as I've described, continuous approval is required for not only rising at the top but remaining their and continuing to amass more and more wealth is required, right? I feel as if you're underestimating the effect of boycotting someone. Not only do you refuse to buy their products but you instead buy the alternative of a competitor, requiring that the people at the top either change or be eventually replaced. I don't get why you assume that an "aristocracy" would form and that the aristocracy would then remain static and unchanging or that if it remained static that wouldn't be because whoever is in that aristocracy remains there because people approve of him being there.

>>132656897

So in Ancap every civil legal dispute ends in the death penalty?

>>132644401
>>132655410
retards

>>132656559
No it means I DO WHAT I WANT

>>132657121
..continuous approval is required for not only rising at the top but remaining their and continuing to amass more and more wealth, right?*

It's too late for this.

>>132656513
The way private law would work is very complex and I'm not good at explaining so I would suggest you watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTYkdEU_B4o

What I can say is that conflict between two defense agencies is costly and not desirable by for profit businesses. There would not be consistent law that works all across the country and would be dependent on the people in a given area, so it would work similarly to how US states and localities work with regards to law. There is also an economic incentive on the part of private courts to come to agreements with each other in the case that two people are under the jurisdiction of different agencies, again like how states work. There already exists private law and private arbitration in the US.

>>132657401
>What I can say is that conflict between two defense agencies is costly and not desirable

Are ancaps unfamiliar with violence as its own desired end? Killing enemy tribes makes humans feel great. People spend money on stuff that makes them feel good, why not warfare?

>>132657335
People will say what a good person he is for housing and feeding those people. Look how charitable he is for giving the destitute work and a home.
Seriously anon. Think about it.

>>132657401
>private law would be complex
No it's simple might is right. If the courts are run as a for profit buisness then whoever pays the most wins.

>>132657064
No one would patronize a private court if would not serve its customers. You're really only looking at these issues in one dimension.

>>132657058
>And at what point can you sue writers for bad life advice that tickles the ear?
What's the problem with this? Consumers have an incentive to find out information about a product before purchasing it, especially if they're more expensive. If you don't like the book, give them a shitty review and discourage anyone else from buying from that author.

>People get wealthy and pursue hedonism, next generation from broken families, revolutionaries form that overwhelm private defense forces.
Libertarianism is not passive about everything in regards to social life or culture. You can use social pressure and private property rights to disuade degeneracy or hedonism. The government encourages families to break up by subsidizing single parents and creating negative incentives for workers.

>>132657672
>Are ancaps unfamiliar with violence as its own desired end
Outside of sports most people don't fight just because. Even if people behaved this way how would the situation be any different for the government? The US government fights meaningless wars for decades. A lot of problems you can level at anarcho-capitalism are present in every political system. People are imperfect and every political system you can derive will as such, be imperfect.

>>132657725
No they fucking wouldn't, why would they? I mean.. hell, the historical evidence are actually stacked against you. People have not only taken a stance against slavery by merely altering their purchasing choices but even by literally laying down their lives so as to abolish it. Now you could argue that there were a lot of other factors at play in those instances but even then, the fact that the victors actually chose to abolish the concept, knowing full well that they could alternatively take advantage of it for personal profit, is enough proof to me that they wouldn't be okay with its reintroduction and that they'd actively boycott it by altering their purchasing choices.

>>132657981
The world is might makes right, this is an inescapable fact, and saying it doesn't give any insight at all. Government courts are no different. You have to obey the laws of the political elite because they have power over you, not because the government has some god given power.

>>132658447
There is no other dimension, other than the fact that this utopia is impossible to achieve. It's a society based on free market the entire system is setup to accumulate as much wealth as possible, why wouldnt the person who pays the most wins, or better yet just own the court.

>>132658840
>You have to obey the laws of the political elite because they have power over you, not because the government has some god given power.
the ideal power is not god given, its NAP given.

>>132658504
The historical evidence is stacked against you, serfdom existed for over a thousand years and slavery hasnt been abolished, it's just gone underground.

>>132643869
make it illegal

>>132659581
>serfdom existed for over a thousand years

Yes, and was later rejected. It is more likely that people today and in the future will act similarly to the people in their near past than the people in their distant past.

>slavery hasnt been abolished, it's just gone underground.

Wat. Are we talking about the third world? And even if not, I guess that's only proof that it is the wish of some for slavery to exist. I never claimed that slavery can't or won't exist in an AnCap society, I'm merely saying that if it comes to exist that would only be the case because the overwhelming majority of the society has allowed it to. And the more the phenomenon expands the more the overwhelming majority that sustains it by its continuous approval of it shrinks.

File: 1487830950259.jpg (28KB, 376x960px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 376x960px

>>132651412
Fuck off libshit.
A society based on free association means you can not associate with people based on race if you so choose.

>>132658447
>Even if people behaved this way how would the situation be any different for the government? The US government fights meaningless wars for decades. A lot of problems you can level at anarcho-capitalism are present in every political system. People are imperfect and every political system you can derive will as such, be imperfect.

This is true but you have causality backwards. People always naturally form governments because they are imperfect. People left on an island will form a hierarchy and beat people that simply disrespect the chief. Its animal nature.

>>132643869
Slavery only exists through government enforcement; try again. Also sage, because
>1 post by this ID