Civic Nationalism

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>>132640006

Keyword "multi-ethnic society".

>>132640006
>I see /pol/ flaming it all the time but I have never seen /pol/ explain what it is and why it deserves to be flamed.
The belief that the USA (or any other majority White country) would still be the USA if it was 100% non-White.

>>132640006
Civic nationalism is just pandering to liberals in an attempt to not look like a nazi. They believe that as long as they have the piece of paper they calk the "constitution", all the problems with third world immigrants will magically solve themselves.

It telies entirely on technicalities and is in no way bound in reality.

>>132640006

there's nothing wrong with civic nationalism unless you're an edgy neo-nazi like
>>132641931
>>132641931

>>132645534
>there's nothing wrong with civic nationalism unless you're an edgy neo-nazi like
There's literally nothing wrong with National Socialism.

Unlike with you civcuck nationalists that want the White race to be minorities in their own countries.

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>>132640006

Also they pretend to be a movement, but they are nothing but a business, a brand.

>>132645710

>nothing wrong with National Socialism

except the part where you started a world war and killed 6 million jews

but hey, you're welcome to think that killing non-whites is fine. just realize that you're an edgelord and no sane, well-adjusted people think murder is ok

>>132640006
Temporary civic nationalism is fine as long as it allows for the Overton Window to be pushed further to the right.

>>132646200
You don't want to take in this argument. You will lose

>>132646200
>except the part where you started a world war and killed 6 million jews
ROTFLMAO!

Wait...you think Germany started World War II?

AND you actually believe the Holocaust happened!?!?

Again...ROTFLMAO!

Where the fuck do you civcuck nationalists come up with this shit? And where do you think you are?

>>132640006
Most don't have an issue with it as a temporary solution; they just expect sympathizing non-whites to form their own ethno-states afterwards.

>>132646200
You mean like Portugal and Spain...
Oh wait...
Go away newfag cuck

>>132640006
If you really want a simple, basic answer, civic nationalism is the belief that you can take a nigger from the darkest Congo and make him British, or French, or German, merely by teaching him a set of supposed values that are uniquely British, French or German, even though there is no such set list of such national values.

This post puts it better >>132640161

>>132640006
nupol flames it, old pol understands why its important.

National identity is all that matters, religious, racial, sexual identities are all inferior and weak.

>>132646407
>>132646434

>le holohoax didn't happen meme
>here, take a look at this shitty jpg i found on stormfront
>you don't want to argue with me, bro

wow, really compelling. you guys are a bunch of scholars in here huh.

is this the prowess of the average natsoc tard?

>>132640006
Civic nationalism is a sense of identity that comes outward from the state (civic).
Ethnic nationalism is a sense of identity that comes from the ethnicity (the people).

You could be an anarcho-ethnic-nationalist, for example, because anarchy and ethnocentrism aren't mutually exclusive.
But you can't be an anarcho-civic-nationalist, because anarchy and the state are pretty much opposites.

The keyword is "Compromise"
CN's will compromise themselves with other ethnicities, whereas EN's make no such compromise.

Politics means "Compromise" essentially. If there was no state of "America", there'd be a lot of people calling themselves "Americans" still, for example, but these factions would be mutually exclusive, as we've seen in prison environments where multi-ethnic contribution isn't required, and it's all self-segregated.

Law essentially absolves one of needing morals.
And if we base our sense of identity on a state, out of necessity, then there's no real "bond" or values therein. It's just an empty shell that's forced to cooperate with eachother.

>>132646735
>National identity is all that matters
So you'd be perfectly fine with 100 million arabs immigrating into the USA over the span of one year just as long as they immigrated here legally, were vetted, had jobs and weren't terrorists/criminals?

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>>132640006
It's a Jewish plot to destroy Nationalism while receiving increased support for Israel's Ethnic Nationalism.

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>>132646756
>>le holohoax didn't happen meme
It didn't.

http://pastebin.com/Uc1EkvGZ

>>here, take a look at this shitty jpg i found on stormfront
Nah, take a look at this scan of the Nuremberg Trail Transcript.

>>you don't want to argue with me, bro
You really don't. There is no evidence for the Holocaust.

>wow, really compelling. you guys are a bunch of scholars in here huh.
>is this the prowess of the average natsoc tard?
Said the person that literally believes everything his Jewish masters tell him.

>>132640006
There's actually nothing wrong with civic nationalism so long as every ethnic group has the absolute right of association and the right to advocate for their own interests. A confederation of ethnostates living on the same continent might have a chance of getting along OK.

But since that seems like a pipe dream in the modern West, civic nationalism a shit.

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>>132640006
>Civic Nationalism can w....

There is no such thing as civic nationalism. You cannot have a nation without its people. This is just some peculiar form of conservative cultural marxism.

>>132647162

>my argument is a pastebin and fringe websites

wew. you've been spending too much time here you're actually falling for the memes. take your flag off and go on a walk

>there is no evidence for the Holocaust

lmao

>>132646902

nice strawman. you're pathetic, lad. a real 1940's natsoc would've kicked your shit in. too bad none of them are left so you have to LARP online

IQ Globalism is the future.

Hybridize world with genius sperm until everyone is intelligent

Dissolve national borders, create high tech utopia.

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>>132647591
>>my argument is a pastebin and fringe websites
My argument is facts contained in those articles, books and documentary videos.

...Which you can't refute but instead dismiss out of hand.

>lmao
There really isn't. Which is why you jew loving holocaust believers have never ever been able to prove the holocaust happened.

>nice strawman. you're pathetic, lad. a real 1940's natsoc would've kicked your shit in. too bad none of them are left so you have to LARP online
Not an argument.

>>132640006
>I see /pol/ flaming it all the time

No you don't
you see paid shills flaming it

>>132647591
It's a pastebin with links and further reading. Also, the '/pol/ is satire' meme is just that; a meme.

>>132640006
>"magic dirt"

>>132640006
Civic nationalism is the belief that you can create a national identity based on ideology. It is justly reviled because it fails to understand the essential role of culture in national identity. The fact of the matter is that civic nationalism has been pushed in the US for over fifty years (see "propositional nation") and it has failed; resulting in persistent political instability.

I dunno I've always thought it meant being a good citizen.

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>>132640006
in a nutshell

>>132647506
>There is no such thing as civic nationalism. You cannot have a nation without its people. This is just some peculiar form of conservative cultural marxism.
They want us to believe that it's just a coincidence that White nations are/were great and just happened to be created by/filled with White people.

Civic nationalism is the idea anyone form anywhere can integrate into a society and will magically adopt western values. it is going particularity well with Islam in Europe or illegal immigration in the U.S, then these groups setting up no go colonies that hate the host group

>>132648737

I don't think that's what it really means. Isn't it a standard to strive toward through encouraging integration?

>>132646902
You left out the integration

If they integrated properly then yes.

>>132648737
>Let's put these brown bears, black bears, grizzly bears, polar bears and koala bears into the same zoo exhibit. They're all bears and therefore the same so they'll assimilate and get along together perfectly!


>>132649187
>You left out the integration
Try to integrate oil and water. Let us know how that works out.

>If they integrated properly then yes.
Thus proving that civcuck nationalists support the genocide of the White race just as long as its done "legally"

>>132640006
Because those values are intrinsic of our "people" (Their quality). The West stands as a beacon of civilization, because White people built it to be that way.

Civic Nationalism undermines the identity of our "people". Basically that everyone who wants to join can join, but they're completely alien and foreign to those ideas. Why do you think the West is really the only one with those values and why it prospers so?

Because it is a quality of our people. To the countries of non-white origin who adopted those values you can see how "Alien" the idea is to them even now. They have never been ruled in that way, that's why you see tons of social freedoms limited if not outright abolished, countries like China and India.

Besides White people are underattack, the Jews have made "US" their enemies. Not anyone else because they knew what we stood for, and they're scared of us creating a strong Europe, so they seek to destroy that identity.

This ironically isn't anyone who isn't Whites fight. They have no dog in the fight, so they possess no loyalty towards us as a whole.

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>>132649187
>you

>>132645534
shoud start shipping the Sudanese, the Syrians and Iraquis to the US and see what happens

>>132648240
>implying civic nationalism ignores the concept of race entirely

This is wrong. Civic nationalism is something only certain races can pull off. You need anglos or mediteranians to act as the glue in civic nationalism.

Rome was a civic nationalist empire, as was the UK

Some races are always racist and will actively try to kill other races if they ever get the upper hand, such as africans, and germans.

A nation made up of a majority of anglo or mediterranean descent however can have large numbers of other races, integrated and conforming, to their civilization, for mutual benefit.

>>132649336
Oh and another point is, "Oh I'm a brown-skinned immigrant I came over here for a better life!"

Amounts to "bribery", meaning he only came over because he was incentivized to do so. Ask how many of them are actually willing to die and fight for Europe. They won't do it, they'll simply leave and mooch off another country. You cannot buy loyalty, you need certain principles.

>>132640006
2032 first Mexican POTUS

>>132648992
basic gay definition
"Civic nationalism, also known as progressive nationalism, is a kind of nationalism and identified by political philosophers who believe in a non-xenophobic form of nationalism compatible with progressive values of freedom, tolerance, equality and individual rights."

The people coming to your nation as individuals are meant to to conform to the the social norms and values, moral standards and rules of that society, to be a good citizen. That is not what is happening in the west, instead there is tribalism in different groups pushing their collective ethnic interests

>>132649600
>Rome was a civic nationalist empire, as was the UK
yeah and look at them now. you civcucks really are fucking retarded.

>>132649600
>Rome was a civic nationalist empire, as was the UK
until multiculturalism destroyed it.

If the UK didn't have all those sandniggers in their country would there be no-go zones, terrorist attacks and punishment for criticizing Islam?

>Some races are always racist
But there's nothing wrong with racism or being a racist.
We're hard-wired to want to be around our own kind and being around other kinds feels wrong.

>and germans.
lmao...the Germans weren't the bad guys. Also, the Holocaust didn't happen.

>A nation made up of a majority of anglo or mediterranean descent however can have large numbers of other races, integrated and conforming, to their civilization, for mutual benefit.
There is no benefit to multiculturalism, diversity and mutiracialism.

You are not better people for supporting the eventual genocide of the White race via demographic replacement.

>>132649794
All empires will inevitably collapse.

It stands that the most meaningful and glorious things in human history have been built on civic nationalism.

You can argue the mogolian empire was a civic nationalis construct as well since all the tribes were really quite different from each other.

Modern day japan is also civic nationalist since there are different races of japanese yet they are culturally cohesive and shun outsiders.

You could say the same about china as well.

>>132649777
>instead there is tribalism in different groups pushing their collective ethnic interests
and thanks to trump, white people are finally getting clued in on this shit.

>>132640006
It's the implication that race has nothing to do with culture, which is obviously bullshit and anyone who tries to run a society thinking that is doomed to fail. It's the exact same end result as multiculturalism.

>>132650144
>All empires will inevitably collapse.
Including the Jewnited States of Amurrica

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First off, I consider myself an ethnic or at least anti-civic nationalist, but I will attempt to honestly address this in a way I wouldn't IRL, where I would just resort to mocking CNs with "muh constitution" and Black Bulls and the like.

The question always becomes "what do you mean by civic nationalism?"

Let us consider the essentially of ethnic unity to nationalism on a spectrum. On the one hand you have "pure civic nationalism." Let's define this as the belief that ethnicity, homogeneity, and genetics are completely irrelevant to nationalism. A population could literally be 100% genetically replaced by another and if they subscribe to the same texts, creeds, ethos, principles and so on, there will be national continuity and coherence.

This "pure CN" position is effectively a strawman. No CN honestly believes this. If they say they do, it's cognitive dissonance in an attempt to avoid racism accusations. The position, however, necessarily fits into ethno-nationalist rhetoric as the reductio ad absurdum of the civic nationalist argument. While disingenuous, characterizing CNism as such is the easiest way to point out its practical and logical flaws.

Next, let's consider a "pure ethno-nationalist" position. Let's define this as: "a nation is a set genetic family. Every single member of this nation must have two parents who were also part of the nation, and so on down through history. No one not part of the tribe can enter it through conversion, assimilation, integration or other CN buzzword. If even one person not born of the pure ethnic line is allowed in the nation, the nation is diminished if not destroyed."

This is also an absurd position, if not quite so illogical and unimaginable as the "pure CN" position. Certainly, no such nation has ever existed in human history. Flows from surrounding peoples, through conquest, marriage, trade, and so on have always and will always occur, no matter how ethno-nationalist your ethos is.

(Cont?)

>>132650140
>There is no benefit
Different races have different strengths and weaknesses

>>132640161
Fucking bump

>>132650309
What is the benefit of having half your country made up of spics and niggers again? What can they do better again?

>>132640006
We've already been down this road with William Buckley.

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>>132640006
Even if you believe all races are equal in aptitude(which they obviously are not), it still destroys diversity.
Sage

>>132650309
>Different races have different strengths and weaknesses
Yes. But they don't belong in everyone else's countries.

Whites don't need any other race for us to survive and thrive.

You want true diversity and racial harmony? Separate the races.

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>>132640161
Based aristotle

>>132640006
Race should never ever mix.
Races should always be seperated, cuck nationalist thinks mixbreeding is ok.
They are a product of jewish brainwashing just like the liberals.

>>132640006
It is the issue of what happens when a relativist and an absolutist go to war. The absolutist will always win because they have more conviction. All it takes is one group in a civic nationalist society to decide to give more loyalty to their own group than the others for the whole system to fall apart. Whether it's a minority doing it stealthfully(jews), or a growing majority bullying less aggressive groups(muslims), it will lead to tribalism naturally.

>>132646200
>six

>>132650548
Blacks have already demonstrated their physical prowess. Im not sure about mexicans, they sure work a lot with out complaining though.

They reproduce a lot maybe we can use them to try and start seeding space by loading a bunch on colony ships and sending them off in random directions.

>>132650672
>need
No civic nationalist is going to claim ethic nationalism woudlnt work. A civic nationalist becomes a civic nationalist because they realize WHY ethnic nationalism works; belief.
Nationalism requires belief to work.

Race is a thing, but we are all still human, and the world has shaped us as it has. Ultimately, the goal of humanity is to spread the dominance of man across the stars and ensure our eternal survival.

The reason civic nationalism is attractive is because it allows for the unrestrained expanse more easily, since you can just assimilate as you go, and all of humanities resources can more easily be amiably accessed with out conflict.

Dividing people into groups will always cause conflict between those groups. By giving people the option of converting into other groups, you make everything work easier.

Civic nationalism is basically like a religion. Its why islam is currently as strong as it is, its a religiously backed political ideology.

What better than a western civic nationalism then to combat it?

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>>132650295
The other corollary of the "pure EN" position is that civics do not matter at all. This being the belief that, if the bloodlines remain pure, the nation will remain coherent, regardless of any change in religion, ethos, political system, values, family structure and so on. This is equally demonstrably ridiculous. In years of interacting with ethno-nationalist, I've seen a few people make a variation of this arguement, but never anyone defend it longer than a few back and forths. While I won't get into historical argumentation here, I would posit this is pretty damn well disproven by human experience. Evola has a fantasic passage mocking this idea, I think its in RAtMW.

------------

Having established these two poles, in my opinion, it is easy to conclude that all nationalists fall somewhere between the two. When self-defined ethno-nationalists mock "civic nationalism" they are mocking the idea that race, genetic variation, phenotypical homogeneity, shared actual family history and so on have no bearing in defining a "nation."

In reality, a CN believe only that these things are LESS important than civics, as defined above, or in the more extreme actually existing forms of CNism, unimportant. As an ethno-nationalist, my tolerance for this line of logic is low. I think race and genetic continuity is absolutely essential. I think civics flow, essentially, from the shared history and genetics of a people.

I would not, however, argue that no one outside the tribe or nation, or more importantly his descendants can NEVER enter the nation. Nor would I dismiss the importance of civics in maintaining a nation.

The main problem with CNism as it actually exists is that most CNs believe, in their heart of hearts, that we ENs are correct. It is the societal irrelevance and ostracization that comes with accusations of racism and xenophobia that forces them into an unnatural and disingenuous emphasis on civics and a public, dishonest dismissal of race.

(Cont?)

>>132640006
Because white civilization and white culture comes from the white race and not the other way around
we need racial homogeneity, that results in cultural homogeneity, when everyone has the same set of values nationalism rises, but when you have a clusterfuck of races, ideologies and languages everyone is sailing into a different direction, there is no unity and no progress, and no nationalism.

>>132651582
>physical prowess

How is a black man anymore inherently apt for physical aptitude than a white man? Basically every strongman champion ever has been and or is white. And even if this was true, how does this actually help society?

Civil nationalism = multiculture

It's exactly what we have now and it sucks.

>>132651582
Also the problem is that you, once again, are not taking into account inherent psychological racial differences. It's funny to me that you think each race has clearly defined physical differences but there are apparently no inherent behavioral, intellectual or temperamental differences that might make them incompatible with the type of society whites strive for.

>>132649777

Isn't it the left preventing them from integrating?

>>132649600
United states was created under civic nationalism. Why it worked so great was that everybody was European. Since it worked so great with Europeans united under one flag, they tried this with people from all over the world - that was a mistake

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>>132640006

They're like socialists. A socialist sees countries fail right in front of their eyes in real time and say "It wasn't a real example."

Civic Nationalists are certain if you flood a country with illiterate shitskinned rapists they will magically vote Republican and will be just as eager getting their body parts blown off destabilizing Israel's neighbors as much as the working white Christians they want to replace.

Problem is there's an example of that failed ideology staring them right in the face called California. That state was deep red up until blanket amnesty back in 1986. Now, there's no middle class, and is so far left the remaining Americans are literally beaten in the streets.

There's not a Civic Nationalist alive who will acknowledge their bullshit borderless anti-white ideology killed California.

>>132652417
>why it worked so great was that everybody was European

Ie it was ethnonationalist. The second we decided to deconstruct that part of our history with immigration laws as well as make niggers mix with us in the 60s is when our society trended towards what it is today.

>>132652127
Single feats are not the same as sustainbility. Africa was big and rewarded long duration moderate exertion. White people grew up in an environment where you conserved your energy and planned actions and then did short excursions.

As far as 'how does it help society'.
You have to think long term, the way things are right now will not always be this way. Cutting off qualities that are not that important right now for the sake of current efficiency is shooting yourself in the foot. You want as diverse a genetic pool to draw on when considering problems the future may present us. Could be they would be optimally adapted for some environment or another.

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Millennial Woes explained it rather well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5MdNITWT0c

>>132652593
I can think long term you utter retard, I can look back on 3000 years of history and see the accomplishments and achievements of white empires and kingdoms and contrast it with the fact that Africans did fucking nothing but kill each other and sell each other off as slaves.

you can't have nationalism in a multi-ethnic country because there will always be groups that put themselves ahead of others. think muslims and jews, they serve themselves first.

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wat

>>132652781
Exactly my point, people only have loyalty towards their own people.

Civic nationalism may be bluepilled as fuck, but you guys aren't looking at the 12D chess behind it.

It's necessary to promote in some cases as a stepping stone to full blown ethnic nationalism.
Most normies, due to being told their entire life that they are evil racist Nazis for wanting strong communities based around people of their same race, are incapable of coming to terms that nationalism is pretty sensible.
They simply can't make the mental leap from globalism -> nationalism.
The concept of "civic nationalism," as flawed as it is, softens the blow and makes people agree with 90% of nationalism's ideologies without the social stigma of being a racist. But eventually over time they naturally redpill themselves and realize that the only true nationalism that would ever work is ethnostate nationalism.

>>132640006
It's just globalism going by another name.

>>132652216
Wrong and wrong

>>132652301
>no inherent behavioral, intellectual or temperamental differences
I have accounted for this, which is why i say certain races must remain the majority.

Humans overall are social and adaptable. Most races will try to fit in for their own advantage when possible. The key thing is that then when they reach a certain point they will start trying to change the society, change the culture.

In fact all races might, white people might as well. The difference is only certain races are actually capable of maintaining civilization with their innate cultural tendencies, this is why those races must stay a majority.

Also, races are not static. In some sort of 'eternal' civic nationalist society all races would eventually adopt the same genetic dispositions towards culture. This would take several generations however.

Critisizing a country that overloads themselves with a bunch of foreigners all at once and using it as evidence against civic nationalism is just stupid, those people dont even want to be part of that culture.

Civic nationalism basically means 'cultural' nationalism, as your government is just the way your culture governs itself.

>>132640006
Civic nationalists are terribly confused. What we actually need is civic tribalism.

Y
>>132652311
Yeah, but the hordes of the world like leftism anyway. It promotes multicultism and replacement migration, because of that they will vote left and get Gibsmedats.

>>132653085
>certain races must remain the majority

How do you plan to do this? Everyone inherently works for their own group's superiority.

>>132652781
>hink muslims and jews, they serve themselves first.
Because their religions have political elements that preach they are the rightful rulers of the material world, earth.

Those religions are political rivals to any other system. You cant adhere to two political systems simultaneously.

>>132647591
Fuck off >>>/r/eddit if you cant argue his points and just flail like an autistic.

>>132646200
Well WTF were they doing in europe?

>>132646200
Would you say that the Native Americans had no right to fight the Europeans that were invading their land and taking their resources?

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>>132652063
The great irony of the CN/Race-denialist/WesternNotWhite position is that, if anything, it makes the people they hope appease hate the CNs even more.

At least ENs speak the language of identity that SJWs and their liberal enablers push for everyone on earth except Whites, whose very existence is seen as a crime against the non-white peoples of the earth. When CNs go on about the constitution, "Judeo-Christian values," and the "western" canon, when they tout their based black friends and high iq indian buddies, all trying their hardest to present as white as possible, as "proof" they don't care about race, no one who isn't a nationalist believes them. No one who hates prominently European genetics and white identity, the core of "western" civilization, is convinced by you rephrasing that into a civics lesson by Dinesh D'Souza. No one.

As I argued above, all nationalists are aware, to one degree or another, of the essentiality of RACE, ethnicity, and genetics to national identity, continuity and coherence. The flip side of that is that ALL anti-nationalists are also aware of it.

And they're aware you're aware of it!

So if you're a CN, stop trying to convince people you aren't a racist, stop denying the importance of genetics, of phenotypes, of shared history and family bond. That is to say STOP KEKING. You make no one hate you less and you open yourself up to vicious and justified attack from ethno-nationalists with your disingenuous pure civic nationalism.

/rant

>>132653197
You only have to keep it in the majority for long enough for the other races to develop the same predispositions. It would take a few hundred years maybe, and during this time we cant let the kind of stupid racial division the leftists are always pushing start occuring.

>>132645534
this. it's what usa is and has been since it's inception; culture > race

>>132653571
>stop trying to convince people you aren't a racist, stop denying the importance of genetics, of phenotypes, of shared history and family bond.

I dont, quite the opposite actually.

I just think you can replace it all with a different ideal if you brainwash people hard enough.

>>132653880
and it worked well until (((people))) stopped melting potting and started identity politics

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>>132640006
>Lives in a civ nat country
>"What is civ nat?"

>>132653880
Yeah no. See First Naturalization Act, see Racial Integrity laws in place in most states until 1967. See immigration policy until 1965.

>>132653898
>I just think you can replace it all with a different ideal if you brainwash people hard enough.

Yes. See: >>132652063
First paragraph.

>>132640161
GOD BLESS THE ANCIENT GREEKS

>>132654108
>us
>civic nationalist

It has good framework for becoming one, but it is not and will not be as long as children are taught not to love the country through soviet style propoganda displays.

it would of been good if the U.S kept the 1790 Naturalization Law in tact. but some (((people))) worked very hard to change that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nBzJdQB5r4

>>132653578
Or, how about this: we can say fuck all non whites, take only whites who are by far the most beautiful and successful population of humans that this planet has ever seen, and strive towards that future? Just as other ethnicities are free to do that in their own nations. Why the fuck does a nation have to be perfectly diversified and spread out between races? It's called multiculturalism and it doesn't work and it makes the society uglier and shittier.

>>132654308
>teach kids to love the country
>not nationalist

I don't think you understand what that word actually means.

>>132654578
Never mind misread the not
>>132654308

>>132653994
agree 100% except that i think (((them))) is actually KGB psyop from the end of WW2 on.

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>>132645534
>there's nothing wrong with civic nationalism

>>132654566
But goy!!! The US was ALWAYS a multicultural society of immigrants! We were always made up mainly of Jews and spics and niggers, THEY made this country great.

By the way, that is the most obvious and 1984-tier example of revisionist history being shoved on us in every facet of life. Didn't realize that until recently but it's a straight up brainwashing and instilling of false history into our brains. Aside from the whole thing with the Nazis of course.

>>132654578
Because we are already mixed and given that we have working historical evidence that civic nationalist empires do great, it comes down to either positively hyping up the idea of the country and accepting all and making them self feed into a bootstrapped course to world domination, or trying to kill them all.

One of those is civilized and the other is barbaric.

Places that are very highly racially uniform already can go become ethnic nationalists, it will work just fine.

Its the nationalist part that matters, if you have a nationalistic society it will become a strong society. What you focus on is just a matter of fitting the right tool for the right job.

>>132654994
>working historical evidence that civic nationalist empires do great

LMFAO Wtf? Name a single fucking one.

>>132653880
>Americans really think the rest of the world wants to be surrounded by spics and niggers and controlled by kikes like them
Top kek

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Most civic nationalists want stuff like the 1965 immigration act to stay and deny Europeans or other whites the right to move here. They believe that nonwhites will vote for nationalists polices when that's the opposite of what happens in reality. America needs to reduce immigration and make it mostly European and Anglo like how it was Pre-1965. Otherwise the America we know today will simply become another Latin American country with high crime rates. Even Trump has stated he wants more European/Anglo immigration which could mean he wants our immigration act replaced with a previous version that favored mostly whites over the third world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mob-8wN6kpU

America unlike Brazil was founded as a white country and should remain as such. We mostly allowed Europeans to move here up until 1965 and we should bring that back. Civic Nationalism wasn't too kind on Rome and it won't be kind to us. Nonwhite birth rates are already low, I don't see why we shouldn't bring back white majority immigration and lift all restrictions put in place all those years ago. Not to mention reduce immigration to at least 250,000 - 500,000 yearly like how it used to be.

>>132653994

People want to feel special so they'll buy it, whether it's about your ethnicity or some gender based delusion.

It's all mental illness.

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>>132654994
>Because we are already mixed and given that we have working historical evidence that civic nationalist empires do great

>>132655139
I already have in this thread

The roman republic and empire. It lasted 2000 years and did pretty good for itself.

Modern day japan has multiple races of japanese, with one culture.

The UK

>>132640161
This

>>132654245
you know what, after thinking about it, if memory serves, i'm sure that you are at least partially correct about racial integrity laws earlier in our history, however, i think they were mistakes that have been corrected and that the melting pot (when it was adhered to) is the superior idea. i'm a normie traditionalist. shoot me.

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>>132640006
As a civic nationalist myself, I feel no need to oppose ethnic nationalists. We share a similar goal. You don't even realize that most of us civic nats are just ethnic nats larping as moderates. You can't overthrow nigger culture from the outside in; you do it from the inside out.

>>132655720
>Roman Republic
Only one race could vote. Ever. All other people were slaves or subjects. Kinda like antebellum southern america. Yes, such a system works, for a while anyway. I don't particularly like it but ok. If you want to move a totally undemocratic America where white patricians can vote, racemixers become slaves and a well-oiled professional white army kills anyone who dissents, fine. I just think there's a better way.

And even they came to live under the iron fist of an Emperor soon after "diversity" became the order of the day.

>Japan

YOU FUCKING WOT M8

>>132656102
>The Melting Pot
Literally a play written by a Jew in 1912. Stop. That has nothing to do with the founding of America.

You aren't a traditionalist at all. You're an adherent to an outrageous radical leftist ideology your own great grand parents would have found completely unimaginable.

>>132655231
how well you support you point, anon. i'm impressed. bigly.

>>132656437
what do i care who wrote it? it's the idea that i find appealing

>>132654994
>>132655720
>14 posts by this ID
Shill please go and stay go.

>>132656384
>You don't even realize that most of us civic nats are just ethnic nats with shit colored skin

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>>132656776

>>132655720
>Rome

Rome was about as civic nationalist as the American south in the mid 1800s

>>132646272
This. The Overton window (at least in the US) is getting ripped apart while the left selfishly clings to the "gains" they made under Obama. Unfortunately for them, they keep losing seats and it's getting to the point that there's no viable party on the left. Honestly I think a new far right party will emerge, and the GOP will find success with civic nationalism and populism, attracting the moderates and center left.

>>132656711
Fine. But understand you are a radical egalitarian leftist adhering to an ideology that had nothing to do with the founding of the country, was totally alien to these shores before the 20th century, introduced primarily by Jews and communists, and so far as it meant anything like whites mixing with other races and losing their position as the vast majority of the country was considered absurd until the 1960s generation came of age in the 80s and 90s.

Every time you backdate this insane ethno-mascocistic crap into the 19th and 18th century, you are literally falling for a 90 year communist psyop. You are not pro-western, traditionalist, or right-wing in any meaningful sense.

>>132646756
Civic Nationalists are just people who are waiting for the red pill they took to kick in.

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>>132656569
>muh multicultural melting pot works
>UK, Japan and Rome were civic nationalists
>civic nationalism worked for the (((US)))
Were you really expecting a serious response to all this nonsense?

>>132656437
>>132652063

The core problem with your argument is that you misunderstand or misrepresent ethno nationalism. The "pure EN" position you describe would actually be offensive to ardent ethno nationalists, because culture (religion, ethos, political systems, family structures) are defining aspects of ethnicity. Yes ethno nationalists put emphasis on biology, but that's simply because they recognize the reality that culture is downstream of biology.

>>132657707
Yes. I 100% agree with everything in this post. That's why I present that "pure EN" position as a strawman that does not exist in real life.

>>132658088
Contrarily the "pure CN" position you describe is legimately held by many civic nationalists. The fallacy of the tabula rasa has been embedded in the political discourse of the west since Locke. This is why the EN / CN divide is so extreme; the CN position is wholly ideological and counter factual.

>>132658754
I see your point, but I don't buy it. I have never actually sat down a self-identified CN and said "OK so if all the white people left America and were replaced by an equal number of constitution loving Mexicans, it will still be the same country?" and not had them blink.

The degree to which they blink varies, but I've never once met someone who genuinely believes in the above proposition.

The only possible exception are ULTRA low-church protestants who go on missions to Africa and shit. And even them...I just don't buy that they really believe it. It's mostly virtue signalling with a literally religious fervor. And even they don't believe it beyond the idea that faith in Christ is more important a factor than legit muh constitution CNism.

I'm willing to be proven wrong on this. If anything you can never lose by betting on c u c k ing but I'll just say I've never encountered a genunine belief in the pure CN position in the wild.

>>132640006
It's like the neocon version of the nationalist, the jews own little infested version of it.

>>132646200
>6 million
reported for anti-semitism. Hitler killed at least 12 million of god's chosen in the killing fields of eastern europe and you DARE to debase their sacrifices to stop tyranny?
You disgust me and bring shame on the US