Was Stalin really going to Invade Germany?

It's obviously nazi propaganda

>>132617735

how do you know?

>>132617517
The USSR was likely going to bring military action against some of Eastern Europe if nothing happened, and Germany would eventually be one of the few places between it and the rest of Europe, but they probably wouldn't have directly invaded Germany first.

>just had a devastating lose against finland
>germany is one of biggest military powers
>germany seeks alliance with england against russia
>just sogned nap woth germany
>literally dozens better easier targets
>hitler said in mk he wanted to invade russia
>wehrmacht said no immediate threat of soviet attack
>soviet attack would unify all europe against soviets
>stalin ignored intelligence reports about hitler prepping for war because muh treaty
/pol/ is satire newbro. You have to be clinically retarded to fall for the memes.

>>132617817
The USSR did not have the strength to attack.
Hitler wanted to capture Moscow for 3 months.

>>132617517
Of course he would have sooner or later, that's why HItler attacked when the commies weren't ready yet

>>132617517

Stalin was happy to let the west destroy themselves and then maybe sweep in like 5 years later when they were all exhausted, but France collapsed faster than anyone expected and Britain was pushed off the continent.

If he did plan to invade, it was still several years off

>>132618430

So the Germans are dishonorable scum who need to be wiped out then????

>>132617817
Because USSR was a shithole. It would be a catastrophic mistake to attack

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>>132618430
Yes they did. Russia had a fuckton of manpower. Stalin himself said in the early 1930s that when the next great war came he would throw all the weight of russia into the war and decide the outcome at the right time

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>>132618405
>implying
Fucking soviets waited a week with attacking, thereby leaving only germany to blame for the attack and triggering the anglo-polish defence pact. It's no wonder Hitler thought Stalin would betray him once more. He would be stupid to sit idly by.

>>132618746

Wrong. The Russians are an honorable peoples who would honor the treaties they sign. What I'm gathering here is that Germans are pussies who attack when you're not ready.

>>132618405
>>stalin ignored intelligence reports about hitler prepping for war because muh treaty
I've read that he ignored them because Hitler didn't prepare for a war in winter, which to Stalin was obvious. Additionally Stalin was preparing himself to attack Germany to swoop in and take over whole Europe as a saviour. From then on, US would be easy picking...

>>132618894

That is no evidence that he would have attacked Hitler.

>>132617517
>Was Stalin really going to Invade Germany?
nope

>>132619175
Poles are biased against Russia so your word means nothing here.

>>132619011
>honor treaties
>wait a week until they invade poland after promising a set date.
>should be declared war on by england but wasn't because they waited so long.
>laughed as germany was now in a war with england after germany begged them to understand they were merely reclaiming stolen land.

Sure, real honorable people.

hitler thought russia was allied with britain.

So hitler was surrounded. britain controlled seas, america would ally with britain eventually, and then russia would supply the army.

that said, germany did have nerve gas, and if they did not invade russia, they could have focused on developing nuclear weapons.

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>>132619517
Well the Russians are peaceful peoples who don't like war so obviously they waited a week to get themselves mentally ready to do as those damn fucking Nazis did so easily. Which is to kill innocence.

>>132619517
The English didn't declare war on the russians because they never had any intention do so in the first place

Hell the polish-english/french pact even mentioned a defense only incase of a german aggression

Russkis attacking late had nothing to do with it

>>132619673

Yeah the Nazis were pretty retarded when you really think about it. One mistake after another. Being dishonorable trash gets you no where.

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>>132619784

>>132619957

Oh so the Russians started most of the European wars?????? Hmmmm i think not, they always get attacked and then shit on the attacker. Pretty Honorable if you ask me.

>>132619517
>merely reclaiming stolen land
>take more land than you had even with the polish majoroty lands that were part of the kaiserreich
Naziaboos are the most beta people on earth

>>132620287
Incomplete humans who wanna prove to the world that they are in fact as great as the English and French who actually managed to get empires together.

>>132619939
False.
first, March 31, 1939, England guaranteed polish independence.
then, on August 25, two days after the Nazi-Soviet Pact, the mutual assistance pact between England and Poland was signed. The agreement contained promises of mutual military assistance between the nations in the event either was attacked by some "European country". Apparently the USSR wasn't seen as a "european country" at the time, even though Belarus now is.
>>132620168
It's just that russians always stab their allies in the back, seen with the nazi-soviet pact and then with the blockades and the wall after the war.
>>132620287
There was a part of Germany that wasn't connected to the main part of Germany, it was being harassed by the Polish, Hitler had threatened them to stand down, but Polish militarymen kept walking into Germany.

>>132620798
>harassed by the Polish, Hitler had threatened them to stand down, but Polish militarymen kept walking into Germany.
Case and point.
Germany took way more land than that you moron.
Stop believing things you read on /pol/
ARE YOU 15? Jesus Christ

>>132617517
are you retarded? he literally did invade germany. the soviets occupied half of europe for 50 years.

>>132620798
>>132621041

Yeah reminds of "WMD's in Iraq". Bullshit excuse to try and build an Empire.

>>132619434
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Suvorov

>>132617517
Fake.

That argument comes from an amateur historian Viktor Suvorov and his book "Icebreaker". It was debunked a number od times.

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>>132621041
Well he pretty much needed to after England declared "total war" and then had the french throw a few rocks at them.
Hitler gave them plenty of chances.
You don't have to believe everything on /pol/ to believe that the victors weren't the good guys.

>>132621292
You're the biggest cuck i've ever seen, you're not even saying anything, you're just nodding your head.

>>132621366

What is this??? A Croat NOT taking the side of the Nazis??????? My god a fucking Miracle , now apologize for killing a million Serbs you scum.

>>132620798
>In a secret protocol of the pact, the United Kingdom offered assistance in the case of an attack on Poland specifically by Germany,[3] while in the case of attack by other countries the parties were required to "consult together on measures to be taken in common".

It's even on goypedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Polish_military_alliance#British_guarantee_to_Poland

>>132617517
Actually, Stalin wanted to ally with Hitler against the British, who Stalin always saw as the Soviet Union's real enemy. Stalin didn't like Jews either, purging most of them from the government in 1937.

Hitler refused the offer. It was the worst mistake he ever made

If he accepted, the world would be totally different today

According to the memoirs of his associates, Stalin was genuinely shocked at Hitler's betrayal. At first, he didn't even believe Hitler ordered the attack, suspecting a rogue general in the Wehrmacht.

>>132621306
Suvorov is literally a kike.

>>132621471
Says the guy sucking Nazi dick to this day. Go cry over interracial couples you fucking pussy. Muhhhhh race waaaaaaaaaa muhhh race wuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

>>132617517
I've watched Russian government produced documentaries attesting to the fact that the Soviet Union never expected a German invasion since it was always assumed they would strike first.

>>132621885

Oh god here we go. What's wrong with being Jewish?????

>>132618801
Yup, they always were, under Hitler especially. Great tactics, definitely effective, but scummy nontheless. Poland was attacked without an official declaration of war

The Soviets invaded Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia and attacked Finland. It was only a matter of time.

>>132622117
>Poland was attacked without an official declaration of war

didn't they give Poland an ultimatum to cede german clay?

>>132622117

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ztOV2wrrkY

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>>132621910
>autistic screeching and straw manning

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>>132621661
I did read that. Yet they never met up or decided if they were going to declare war to the country that had the other half of Poland under their control.
Nah, they just had to side with the backstabbers.
They were literally just jealous of how big and successful Germany had become in a time of great famine and poverty.

>>132621910
I'm not saying every move Germany made was correct, I'm saying that Stalin was a backstabber.
You sound like you're paid to say this, that's how shit your posts are.

>>132622078
Filling 80% of mass media CEO positions and indoctrinating the masses with their message of "it's good that millions of arabs and africans are slowly taking over Europe".
There's several strong ties between ISIS and Israel, healing terrorists in their hospitals and supplying guns, they even said they'd rather have ISIS than the syrian government.

All in all you're fucking worthless to talk to.

http://www.vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/16/6/Bishop22.html

There's operation icebreaker etc; few other things but evidence and reference is sparse due to the nature of the war, soviets certainly didn't want anything to justify Hitler.
There's a god deal of information about Soviets seeing Hitler as a potential destabilizer towards western forces and sparking world revolution as they wanted, Stalin only ceased a portion of Europe and relapsed into communism for one nation etc, maybe its not all true but interesting stuff.

>>132622454
Most ultimatums are bullshit and impossible to implement in the time given. Go look at the ultimatum given to Serbia by the Austrians. It was a joke.

>>132617517
Read Icebreaker, defected soviet officer reveals that Stalin was planning to attack Germany just as Hitler anticipated.

Stalin also broke the NAP with Germany by invading Bukovina after Hitler told him that he wouldn't allow a second invasion of romania.

>>132622983
it was totally possible. they just didnt want austrians to investigate because they knew their security services were involved

>>132618405
Right...
If that is the case why were the soviets all in forward position and training for war? Thats how they were so easily encircled btw

>>132622380
All of the countries you mention have a thing in common; they were a part of the Russian empire once. Germany was not.

>>132618405
Germany was not ready to invade the soviet union, contemporary opinion of the Wehrmacht was that the German armed forced would be ready late 1943.

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>>132623193
Well now I guess all those (excluding finland) were in the reich once too now

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Propaganda.

War between the two nations was inevitable really but the Soviets would not have done it for a few more years.
Don't let Stormfags fool you into thinking it was a pre-emptive strike. It wasn't.
Hitler wanted Russia for the resources and living space.

>>132622688

Varg?? really? If you're gonna use the word "autistic" don's use Varg as an image to prove your point.

>>132623193
Communism was globalism by force and trickery. Don't expect Soviets to hold on to old lands, he just wanted the easiest territories. There were still plenty of communists in those countries, and they were small and weak.

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>>132622078
It's not a (((coincidence))) that it's literally always the fucking jews that are behind shit like pic related and the anti-white SJW PC police bullshit. The massive amount of lies, the massively exaggerated claims about the holocaust, emperical Zionism of the Jewish supremacist state aka Israel, 9/11 and the dancing mossad agents videotaping the twin towers burning to the ground while they jump around high fiving each other and celebrating, the attack on the USS Liberty where Israel bombed an American ship which was in international waters for several hours, ignoring radio calls and claiming they mistook the ship for was from Egypt or some shit.

I could literally go on for hours. I don't think every single jew is evil, but there sure are a fuck ton of slimeballs in their ranks

Loving all the soviet revisionists in this thread.

STALIN DINDU NUFFIN HE A GOOD BOY HE DINDU NUFFIN.

>>132617517
>So Hitler claimed that Russia was going to invade Germany if he waited. Is this really true or a bunch of Nazi propaganda?

Before Nazis took the power, communists in the USSR still had had the plans to light up the world revolution.

But when Hitler showed to all of Europe that he was going to remilitarise Germany and make it great again Stalin became pro-versaille (USSR even joined League of Nations).

So, USSR wanted to create some form of collective security system in Europe in order to stabilize the situation. He feared the most that Western countries would unite with Hitler against bolshevism.

But Western countries were too weak, they were pacifistic and didn't want to go to war. They didn't want to make any concrete deals with USSR against possivle German agression, instead they tried to pacify Hitler with Austria and Czhehoslovakia. Hitler deceived them, saying that the only thing he wanted was German-populated territories. After the Munich Conference the USSR was in political isolation basically.

But then crazy fanatic named Adolf Hitler declared war on Poland and Stalin used the opportunity to make a deal with Germany. He couldn't agree with the West, so he made an arragement with Hitler.
After that, Stalin strategy was to watch how capitalistic dogs fight with each other and laugh.

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Nazi apologists often argue that Hitler's invasion of the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941 only ended up preceding a planned Europe invasion of Stalin by mere days or at best, weeks. The German invasion of the Soviet Union was thus a preventive war, meaning: Hitler wasn't such a great villain after all - he had only valiantly tried to defend Europe from a Soviet invasion, and because half of Europe did end up becoming part of the East Bloc for the decades that followed anyway, we should, in fact, nevertheless thank Hitler for his actions and crown him Savior of Western Europe from the Red Terror via the heroic deeds and sacrifice of the Wehrmacht and its Axis allies!

>>132623427
>It wasn't a preemptive strike
>>The Peaceful people of the Soviet Union didn't invade a half dozen nations including Lativia Lithuania Estonia Poland Finland Belarus and the Bessarabian region of Romania

>>132618829
Didn't stop them from attacking Finland, the Baltics, or Eastern Poland under the same conditions. Your argument makes absolutely no sense.

Stalin had always intended to invade Europe, much like Lenin with his failed war against Poland. His aim was to let the other European powers fight amoungst themselves and weaken each other so he could swoop in near the end and claim the continent. When Hitler beat France in six weeks, Stalin was pissed and figured he would go through with the plan anyway.

>>132619011
>>132619784
Yeah they hate war so much that they started one with Finland for basically no reason. You're cringey and retarded.

>>132622995
>Icebreaker, defected soviet officer

His name is Suvorov aka Rezun, he is not even a historian, he is a laughingstock and a traitor

>>132619673
>that said, germany did have nerve gas
So did we, we had nerve gas during the first Crimean war and were going to use it on the Russians but then decided not to.

Lucky Russians! Would have got gassed! WE GAS YOU GOOD! WE GAS YOU ALL AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHA

>>132617517
Thread theme:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNkqq2rIVlU

>>132623823
A traitor to communism is a friend of the truth.

>>132622983
>Go look at the ultimatum given to Serbia by the Austrians. It was a joke.

This is pretty much the only thing people can say on here about austrian history that still triggers my asshurt after all these years

It was far from impossible, it was just that the people that had a hand in the assassination rather sold out an entire country than have themselves being uncovered trying to start shit

>>132622726
This, Israel wants Assad out, they support ISIS rebels and probably helped them carry out the false flag attack that happened recently with the poison gas. There is no fucking way Assad would gas his people, especially when he is beating ISIS with the help of Russia. Also, ISIS has been caught trying to frame Syria with gas attacks in the past.

Another important note is the "evidence" of WMD's in Iraq came from Mossad, they leaked it to the CIA. Netanyahu gave some big speech to the US senate or congress, can't remember, but he ranted about how great it would be in the middle east if Sadam was removed from power... look how well that worked, lol.

Israel is closer to our greatest enemy than our greatest "ally".

>>132623914

I see nothing wrong with that. Also that is a lovely cover of the glorious Russian Anthem thanks for sharing. I hope the US and Russia can become great allies and take on those traitors in the EU

>>132623720
B-but muh glorious gommunism :*(

>>132617817
Because the Soviet army was completely unprepared and hadn't been planning on any offensive operations against Germany?

>>132623164
Because they just invaded Poland you dunce

>>132624201

Well all the evidence has piled up against the Germans. They deserve their terrible reputation.Now let's focus on stopping them from Destroying Europe again with the Muslims. OHHHH TOOO LATE :(

>>132623820
>His aim was to let the other European powers fight amoungst themselves and weaken each other so he could swoop in near the end and claim the continent

Sounds oddly familiar doesn't it

>>132623820
>Stalin was pissed and figured he would go through with the plan anyway.
Where is this plan You're talking about?

>>132624201
Dude, poland was filled with fucking soviet soldiers.
It's just that they had to resupply from eastern USSR because the Germans were kicking their ass. No wonder if barely anyone in your army even knows what "Germany" is.

We like Russia though, STOP HATING RUSSIA.

>>132617517
Kind of. Stalin had no reason to trust Hitler in the long run and had plenty of reason to see Germany crippled. However, at the same time the Soviet military despite its enormous size (when the Germans launched operation Barbarossa the Soviet Union had about a 3.5 to 1 advantage in tanks and aircraft and Soviet tanks were generally superior to their German counterparts) wasn't fully prepared for war in 1941 and was still recovering from the officer purges and from the losses taken in winning the winter war. With that in mind the Soviet Union was building up much faster than Germany and even if the western allies never landed in Europe independently (which was unlikely, even without Soviet intervention North Africa would have inevitably fallen to the allies and a natural extension of that would be invasions of Southern Europe) the Soviet Union would have eventually invaded the Third Reich in order to destroy the powerful anti-communist alliance (Germany, Italy, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria) sitting right on their borders.

Had the Soviets had an extra 2-3 years of peace and invaded in 1943 or 1944 odds are even a prepared anti-communist coalition would have been defeated in a year or two as the Soviet army would simply be too massive and too well equipped for the Germans to deal with.

Put simply Germany never had a chance, war with the USSR was inevitable and Germany lacked the industry and manpower to ever defeat them. It is a miracle Germany defeated France in 1940, and the fate of Germany was decided in 1939. Ideally Hitler should have given up his territorial ambitions at Danzig and tried to repair their shattered reputation in the west after the betrayal following the treaty of Munich. Of course the German economy was unstable and without war the German economy would have imploded in a few years anyway.

GUYS GUYS

A conclusion has been reached. Germany was the aggressor and they deserve everything that came their way after losing so pathetically.

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>>132617517
yes.

Both countries wanted to have a combination of w. european industrial infrastracture with e. european space and resources. Such an Eurasian empire would be unstoppable. It could even build an army and fleet latge enough to invade the US.

In 1940 Stalin and Hitler were simultanously preparing to invade each other. Hitler struck first. Stalin won. If it had not been for the US army and NATO Stalin would have reached Lisbon by 1947.

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>>132617517
Stalin refused to believe reports than Germany prepared an invasion. He was convinced Hitler would honor Molotov-Ribentrop pact.
Even after attack it took Stalin weeks to come out with a speech

>>132617517
After the Germans went in Stalin was shutin with his vodka for three days so I guess not expected.

>>132624665
Russia is okay at the moment. Shame the russians still like stalin though.

>>132624712
Shorten it down and stop mixing everything up.
Learn to use sentences correctly.
Hitler had no reason to trust Stalin in the long run. German tanks were far superior. The USSR barely had any planes, and obviously barely anyone to pilot them.
You're fucking retarded and indoctrinated.

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>>132617517
Look into Winter War and Terijoki Govt.

Stalin was going to invade Europe.

>>132624977

>Stalin refused to believe reports than Germany prepared an invasion
>Molotov Line
>new T-34 and KV-1

oh yes

>>132617517
There would have been war sooner or later, but Stalin wasn't ready to attack yet.
Hitler figured that since Britain wasn't making peace even after the campaign in France, they must have some other ally in Europe. The only country that was big enough to make a difference and wasn't already allied with Germany was the Soviet Union, so he thought that when he committed the Wehrmacht to an invasion of Britain, the Soviet Union would attack from the east and overrun Germany. In reality he had simply underestimated british stubbornness and stupidity.

>>132619175
>1941
> the start of a new 5-year military production plan
I know you Poles are still butthurt and all, but consider the following: attacking someone as powerful as Germany at the beginning of a 5-year plan would have been a bit too retarded for anybody and Stalin wasn't megalomaniac idiot like Hitler

>>132625157
Russia is sexy country.

>>132617517
>So Hitler claimed that Russia was going to invade Germany if he waited. Is this really true or a bunch of Nazi propaganda?

True.

US decided to land to Normandy precisely because of this threat.

1940's were very contrasted, politically speaking.
Either you were far-right, either you were far-left.

As Nazis were considered as far-right, majority was anti Nazi, therefore, was far-left.

Furthermore, as Hitler decided to fight on two fronts, east and west (biggest mistake in military strategy), he was done, for sure, early as 1943.

Even if Stalin wouldn't had been successful to military conquer West Europe, ideas and minds were largely communist friendly (which explain far-left inspired social laws in 1945).

US had no other choice. The threat to see Europe from Moldovia to Portugal to turn red was too important.

>>132625096

>implying Finland is not rightful russian clay

oh

>>132623720
>The Peaceful people of the Soviet Union didn't invade a half dozen nations including
>Lativia Lithuania Estonia Poland Finland Belarus and the Bessarabian region of Romania

But that was after the Munich Conference ant it was a clever move to push back the borders from your capital when a war-mongering psychopath started a war near your country.

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>>132625275
That is not my point.

>>132617517
No, he was going to give free food and protection to everyone on the Nazi occupied borders. And also hugs, lots and lots of hugs.

>>132625288
communists were starting wars all over europe long before nazis were around

>>132625238
>Furthermore, as Hitler decided to fight on two fronts, east and west (biggest mistake in military strategy), he was done, for sure, early as 1943.
Well it was either getting backstabbed from the east or fighting on two fronts.

>>132623941
Suvorov is a kike, and if you agree with him you're a kikelover

>>132625462

>starting wars all over europe long before nazis were around

like a ...?

>>132625641
proof of kikery?

>>132624965
>Stalin and Hitler were simultanously preparing to invade each other

How that coincide with the simple fact that the USSR wanted to create alliance with Czechoslovakia and France before 1938 against possible German aggression?

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>>132625641
You are a kike.

Whoever agrees with you is a kikelover

>>132625679
German Revolution of 1918 was one of them.

lel.

But I love you.

>>132625444

Just because Latvia was a weak country and got invaded doesn't mean that he would have invade Germany....

>>132617517
It's perfectly possible, but I don't believe they were planning to do so yet

>>132625080
>German tanks were far superior.
They really weren't. The German tanks in 1940 couldn't even deal with British and French infantry tanks, let alone even better armed and armoured Soviet heavy tanks like the KV-1 and KV-2, as well as the BT tanks which were better armed and much faster than German tanks, and of course the T-34 which completely surpassed anything the Germans were fielding in 1941. German tanks are just meme tanks, they achieved such successes primarily due to the fuck ups of enemy commanders and the aggressive maneuvers of German commanders.
>The USSR barely had any planes, and obviously barely anyone to pilot them.
When operation Barbarossa was launched the Soviet Union 7,100 to 9,100 aircraft compared to the German led coalition which had 2,700 aircraft. Of course early Soviet losses were extremely high but it was their initial numbers of tanks and aircraft that helped inflict such heavy losses on the veteran (important to note that the Germans lose lots of veteran soldiers in Barbarossa as opposed to the USSR who threw away poorly trained conscripts) German army.

>>132625478
>Well it was either getting backstabbed from the east or fighting on two fronts.

Can't agree on backstabbed.
Hitler was dumb to trust commies first.
All in all, do not expect friendly relationships when you conquer countries which are not yours, even if some people welcome your troops with flowers.
Flowers mean nothing, and usually a knife is hidden under the petals in time of war...

>>132624023

It actually wasn't. Serbia just knew that they'd get caught with their hand in the cookie jar and instead of suffering shame they had a third of their population killed off

>>132626060
Well he had to get his german clay back somehow, else he would not be trusted by his countrymen.
I agree with you though. Never trust a commie.

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>>132625762
Stalin wanted to conquer Europe all the way to Portugal. In hindsight France looks weak but in 1938 nobody could predict it would fold in a month in 1940.

Stalin waited until 17.09.1939 to invade us because he didnt know how the Germans will do and whether France will not invade them from the West.

He needed to take out Germany and France to conquer Europe and apparently he toyed with the plan of defeating the Germans first and the French later.

He would turn on every ally in a heartbeat at the right moment the only reason he didnt steamroll the western allies in 1945 was the US army and nukes.

>>132619784
>have so much land
>want more
why ?

>>132625762
The real alliance Stalin wanted to create was with Germany against ZOG-NWO

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Axis_talks

If Germany and Stalin's NazBol USSR allied, it would be game over for Jewry. Such an alliance would have been literally unstoppable.

Hitler's myopic obsession with "lebensraum" meant it was a non-starter. His megalomania doomed the entire world to slavery. After the Jews poisoned FDR in 1945 (FDR opposed Israel), and then Stalin in 1953, all hope for human liberation died forever

>>132626478
Clean my toilet untermensch

>>132626644

Don't act like Stalin stood for anything but his own power.

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>>132626867
lel

>>132617517
Hitler just wanted Russia's vastly underutilized natural resources. He would have made Slavs living in these lands far wealthier than they are now with their shit infrastructure and their shit knowledge of economics.

>>132617517
Hitler was nothing more than the mouthpiece chosen by the deutsches volk. Whatever he claimed was true for 80 million volksgennosen

>>132627146

Oh yes I'm sure he would have treated the Slavs as equals and let me them live in peace in the Reich. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

>>132627322

I agree and they are now paying for the sins they committed throughout history.

>>132627146
>Hitler just wanted Russia's vastly underutilized natural resources
Wrong, and true.
Hitler wanted Aryan Lebensraum, nothing more.
Then, to exploit other people/resources.

Frenchies were considered as sub-human (somehow true), and France was looted from 1940 to 1945.
They never planned to make France (or Russia) wealthier, furthermore stronger.

>>132625288
>have independent countries between your own country and the aggressor meaning that he cannot attack you by surprise
>conquer those countries so you would have border with the aggressor so he can now attack you anytime without you noticing

real fucking smart there, Ivan. Also, if Soviets did not expect Germany to attack, why did they have millions of soldiers within <50km from the borders? And why would the have 1 million desant soldiers? If you're willing to only defend, why would you need desant?
list of arguments goes on and on, I reckon you haven't read a single Suvorovs' book because Muh Rodina said that he's a traitor and must be hanged.

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>>132627397
dont you know, Hitler was actually a pan European white nationalist heres a picture of a Ukrainian SS soldier to prove he didnt do anything to Slavs and the Generalplan Ost is a kike lie.

ok praise Fuhrer

>>132617817
Cnn said so

>>132626478
>He would turn on every ally in a heartbeat
But he didn't, whereas the British did it to Czhecoslovakia.
>Stalin wanted to conquer Europe all the way to Portugal
It's a speculation. Sure, everyone wants to dominate the world, but Soviet Union didn't have such plans at all, it was crazy and unreal.
One of the reasons for that you told yourself
>In hindsight France looks weak but in 1938 nobody could predict

>Stalin waited until 17.09.1939 to invade us because he didnt know how the Germans will do and whether France will not invade them from the West.
Sounds pretty reasonable, taking the fact that the deal about spheres of influence was a secret protocol

>>132627736

Did he not consider the Slavs to be inferior to the Germans?

>>132617517
True

>>132626962

http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/imagining-stalins-plot-to-exile-the-jews

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin_and_antisemitism

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors%27_plot

>>132627943
Archive time

>http://newyorker com/books/page-turner/imagining-stalins-plot-to-exile-the-jews
https://archive.is/0LiD5

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>>132619011
Listen here autist the Russians are not honorable.
>Starves Ukraine
>doesn't back Germany
>treats their own citizens as pawns
>sent at least half their infantry into battle without a weapon and killed anyone who didn't fight (armed or otherwise)
>played their own side through the entire conflict

At least Germany supplied their people with jobs, cars, community, and rebuilt their economy and military that was stolen from them.

>>132627322
>chosen by the deutsches volk
Well, you have to consider WWI reparations.
Germany was under extreme pressure.
In this particular condition, any dumb ass as Hitler would have been "chosen".
It was not a choice.
Moreover, the Hitler way to power was everything but easy.

>>132617517
he would be forced to invade Germany by the jews in the USSR. They had already de facto invaded Spain during the Spanish Civil War without his consent (he purged many because of this), if he had not eventually invaded he would have been killed.

iceland greatest ally

>>132627943

So what to pretend he was going to stand against zog or whatever other kikery you want to think of is laughable at best

>>132627726
>Suvorovs' book because Muh Rodina said that he's a traitor and must be hanged.
Don't be stupid. He is not a historian. If you like to read some fairy tales just because it is satisfy your political tastes it's fine. Don't call it science, please.

>have independent countries between your own country and the aggressor meaning that he cannot attack you by surprise
So, it would be better if Hitler had have all Poland to himself? Stalin proposed to Polyaks to use their territory for the Red army. They refused.

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>>132617517
Hitler actually never claimed this. He was pretty forward with his plans to invade the east and purge the slavs. It's only one pseudo-historian and internet nazis who believe this theory because they have to reconcile with the fact that the "racial struggle against asiatic horde" failed miserably, and proved that the alleged subhumans are better at fighting that aryan mustard race.

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>>132627863
he did but it was more complex.

Slavs are a very diverse bunch. There was a gradation of dislike in German nationalism of the 1930s and 40s.

Due to long conflict between Poles and German Prussians we were far more disliked than for example Croats.

Western Ukrainians who were part of the Habsburg Empire reached some sort of agreement, were declared a lost German tribe and Honorary Aryans but in Central and Eastern ukraine they treated the locals like niggers.

Slovaks got their own puppet state. Belarussians got Dirlewanger and lost every third civilian largely due to his type of """warfare""".

Bosnians got their SS. Serbs got Axis-ran Jasenovac camp and a genocide.

The Germans had an inconsistent policy in the east which was pretty arbitrary and made of NSDAP interpretations of various German historical grieviances.

>>132628173
Shitler threw away the lives of milllions of young German men, all so Krupp, IG Farben, and other German corporations could make more profit.

Hitler was funded by Jewish Wall Street bankers to destroy Stalin's Soviet Union, the real enemy of International Jewry

https://www.amazon.com/Wall-Street-Hitler-Antony-Sutton/dp/0945001533

>>132627809
>But he didn't

he did but he couldnt attack bacause of the US and nukes. Hence the cold war

Will be interesting to see what happens in the future. No german expansionism but very much russian aggression will be the norm in the next decades.

What will USA and UK do when Russia conquers Belarus (most likely peaceful annexion), Ukraine, Balticum and then Poland?

>>132623823
>he is not even a historian
No, he's not a historian, he's a defected intelligence officer who provided insider information on the history of the USSR.

>>132628827
Could you link me debates where a true historian crushed Suvorovs' arguments with true historian knowledge? Please.
Give it a shoot and read one book.

>>132629152
>Shitler threw away the lives of milllions of young German men

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
HOLY FUCKING SHIT HOW CAN YOU FUCKING SAY THIS WHILE USING A COMMUNIST FLAG

>>132628173
>Ukraine
Result of commies fucking up and locals not cooperating.
Also, big fucking surprise, other regions starved too.
>doesn't back Germany
Germany's big military and trade partner.
>treats their own citizens as pawns
Everyone does that, or did Germany not have man-guided missiles?
>infantry thing
A lie. Actual soldiers who went into fighting by design were well-equipped.
Unlike, say, building battalions, which Germans could meet if they breached the frontline far enough.
>played their own side
...Are you implying playing for yourself is bad?
>German cars, ecnonomy, jobs
Done at price of upcoming wars and through cheeky schemes like MEFO bills.

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>>132629488
>Ukraine, Balticum and then Poland?

lay down the acid Ahmed.

both Crimea and the Donbas are economic clusterfucks and a drain and they are majority russian.

How do you imagine them controlling a territory made of tens of millions of non russians? I know you will come up with some bullshit delusional vision but this argument is for the sane posters to see you are a retard.

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>>132628173
>half their infantry into battle without a weapon
is there some new CoD game that has armless red army soldiers? why are so many faggots claiming that we had no weapons in ww2?

>>132622995
>Stalin also broke the NAP with Germany by invading Bukovina
I'm going to keep repeating this. Though there are many communist morons in this thread who think that Suvorov is unqualified to talk about Soviet military intelligence despite being a USSR intelligence officer, no matter what you believe, STALIN INVADED BUKOVINA AGAINST HITLER'S ORDERS.

This shows that Stalin did not respect the NAP and was only aiming to encroach further west, and attack Hitler's allies.

>>132629152
Ultimate redpill:

https://www.henrymakow.com/2017/01/were-nazis-greatest-hoax.html

-Nazism was modeled on Zionism

-Nazism was literally German Judaism. Hitler took the Jewish belief that Jews are a master race destined to rule the world, and just replaced Jews with Germans.

-Many high ranking Nazis were Jews

-Without Hitler, there would be no Israel. Hitler was a necessary prerequisite for Israel's existence

-Holohoax was a false flag - Zionist Jews posing as Germans sacrificed non-Zionist Jews to create Israel. All of it justified by the "six million" prophecy

>>132629918
so why are you sucking Trumps dick and campaigning for american military bases in Poland when there is no russian threat?

>>132629939
And before some commie moron who only knows half the truth tries to butt in with "durr, Hitler gave Bessarabia to Stalin", that was BESSARABIA. Hitler refused to allow Stalin to occupy Bukovina, but he did it anyways.

>>132629661
He doesn't know shit about Soviet documentation. He assumes a tank is meant for using roads actively because it can ride some without tracks and has 'A' in it, cause you know, Autostradniy, aka Motorway.

>>132629919
Good old oднa винтoвкa нa тpoих meme.

fuck nazis and fuck german """""""""""""people""""""""""""

>>132630114
Because there's german threat.

>>132630121
>He assumes a tank is meant for using roads actively because it can ride some without tracks and has 'A' in it, cause you know, Autostradniy, aka Motorway.
Tanks don't use roads? Because I'm pretty sure roads are ideal terrain for any form of movement

What does this have to do with anything?

>>132630273
ahahahaha

yea, leftist Germany with 2nd world military is truly frightening

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>>132630114
>so why are you sucking Trumps dick

I guess only a foreign policy that a 15 yo kraut on a mongolian basketweaving forum would approve of would not qualify as dicksucking. Insights worthy of Bismarck in your post.

We have a foreign ministry and an alliance with the US. Due to deteriorating security in the region we are doing some standard security policy moves. Thats it.

>>132629790
Stalin sacrificed millions of men to save a race (Slavs) that wasn't even his own from subjugation and enslavement. Millions died, but they died defending their country and their race.

The millions who Hitler send to die weren't defending their race from enslavement or extermination. According to Hitler himself, they were fighting to enslave and exterminate an "inferior" race (Slavs) and make room for German colonists. He openly talked about this in Chapter 14 of Mein Kampf, back in the '20s

>>132629096

Surprised about the serbs actually. Hitler loved islam and the serbs were the biggest supporters of islam going in Europe for hundreds of years

>>132630396
No, there was this specific fad. An idea of a tank capable of taking tracks off and driving like that.
Useless in defensive war on Russian soil, useful in a fight on a heavily stuffed with roads German soil, since tracks don't last long.

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>>132630726
>the serbs were the biggest supporters of islam going in Europe for hundreds of years


wat

>>132630396
There are so many people in Russia from academic field who are not even pro-communist or antisoviet and they exposed his mistakes and lies a long time ago.

>>132630527
>the most influential and the richest country in Europe
>not frightening
besides, si vis pacem, para bellum

>>132630726
>nu/pol/ history

>>132630606
Good job BTFOing refugees Polack, you sure showed those browns and blacks who's boss! It almost makes up for the fact that 1/3 of Poles live abroad, preforming degrading manual labor like cleaning toilets for A*glos, Germs, and Frogs

>>132630999
Also Poland was Ottoman Empire's greatest ally. Thank God people of Yurop managed to overwhelm your hordes. Never forget. American education.

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>>132630622
>Stalin sacrificed millions of men to save a race (Slavs) that wasn't even his own from subjugation and enslavement.
Stopped reading there.

The man in this picture is Helmuth von Pannwitz, a German general who led an SS division composed of Russian volunteers.

Now, this should immediately raise some questions for anyone who isn't a moronic commie, such as:

Why would Russians join an organization allegedly engaging in subjugation and enslavement or extirmination of Russians?

Stalin's jewish propaganda machine started spewing out lies about genocides, but those who joined Germany only ever saw the war with USSR as a war against communism, not against Russians. There were over 200,000 Ukrainian and Russian volunteers fighting for Germany, including foreign-SS divisions such as Pannwitz's.

Pannwitz was so loved by his men, that they voted him General of all of Russia.

When the war was lost, Pannwitz's men were extradited to the USSR by Britain, to be executed, along with their families. Pannwitz was not obligated to go with them, however, he voluntarily went, to die alongside them. Does this seem like the actions of a general committing a genocide?

These Russian SS soldiers were killed by machine guns, ALONG WITH THEIR ENTIRE FAMILIES, women and children.

Stalin was also responsible for planned famine in Ukraine to punish Ukrainian nationalists, and other atrocities. If anyone was waging a genocidal war against Russians, it was Stalin, with Hitler trying to liberate them.

>>132618894

You are wrong. Socialism in one country was acctually the main issue the split trotskyists and stalinists. Stalin didn't want to export socialism by conquest, specially because he was obsessed and didn't trust his own military. There is no way he was preparing for a large scale war against a foreign power, specially after years of purging his best officers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_in_One_Country

>>132631401
>Ukraine starved because ebil Stalin
And the rest of the Union starved because?

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>>132631262
Poland BTFO

i an a #nazbolmissile now

praise Dugin.

Also more Irishmen live abroad than in Ireland. They need nazbol too. Even more thsn us.

>>132630999

The Serbs were literally the Ottomans biggest supporters and saved them on about 2-3 occasions when they could've been driven out of Europe and or destroyed

>>132622380
You forgot to add Bessarabia (Moldova)

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>>132631792
when?

>>132631707

ukrainian nationalists convenitelly forget about the russians who died under Stalin because "muh holocaust". They are basically playing the jew card so they can claim a nationalist agenda.

>Stalin wasn't russian and he had only competent for slavs in general

>>132632051

Battle of Ankara is the biggest example. They saved the Ottoman treasury and the heir allowing them to continue on.

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>>132631707
>And the rest of the Union starved because?
The Ukrainians suffered worst of all because they rejected communism and union with Russia. Stalin scapegoated all of Russia's problems on independent farmers, and took away food and farming equipment and designated farms that once produced farms to now produce other goods. The actions were inherently malicious and an attempt to starve out anyone who didn't support the USSR. Just a continuation of the Red Terror, forcing them to rely on the central government for food, or just plain out decimating their numbers and rendering them in a state incapable of resistance.

>>132631401
>Why would Russians join an organization allegedly engaging in subjugation and enslavement or extirmination of Russians?

Because they were traitors and cowards. And they were killed for that.

>Stalin was also responsible for planned famine in Ukraine to punish Ukrainian nationalists

Do you know that this famine was also on Russian territories? It was a famine not a genocide. Why nobody blames Russian Empire for Ukranian genocide then when famines were pretty common in 1890s and 1900s?

>>132632241

I'd imagine it's because they didn't cause it intentionally

>>132632192
>The Ukrainians suffered worst of all because they rejected communism
So you think a big part of Russians didn't reject communism? After a bloody civil war? Are you brainwashed Canadian with the Ukrainian ancestry?

>>132632192
>Ukrainians suffered worst of all because they rejected communism and union with Russia
Things that never happened.txt

Ukrainians were fine apart from west ukraine that was under Poland till 1939 yet somehow starved and blamed it on USSR because magic i guess.

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>>132632241
>Because they were traitors and cowards. And they were killed for that.
They were genociding their own race? Their general willingly died alongside people whom he was genociding?

Your story has holes. Huge ones.

The only traitors are the commies who sold out their peoples' futures and turned Russia and half of Europe into a third world country.

>Do you know that this famine was also on Russian territories? It was a famine not a genocide. Why nobody blames Russian Empire for Ukranian genocide then when famines were pretty common in 1890s and 1900s?

Because the Tsars weren't an active agent in the famines, didn't take away farming equipment and food from farmers, didn't try to relocate farmers or force them to work in industry instead of agriculture, etc, etc.

>>132632661

Is this what tankies really believe

>>132617517
true, 1943-1944

>>132632436
>intentionally
Of course, evil communists killed a lot of Russian and Ukranian peasants just because it's fun

>>132632624
>So you think a big part of Russians didn't reject communism? After a bloody civil war?
Those are the ones who joined the SS or the Russian Liberation Front.

>>132632661
>Things that never happened.txt
Go ahead and post your .txt then, because I'd love to hear your reasoning for why you think that

>>132632835

Wouldn't be surprised if you monsters actually did it fun

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>>132632661
I always lol @ ukrainian nationalists who are so bitter about "polish occupation" yet this is exactly what saved them from the great terror and starvation.

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>>132632835
Absolutely, they are jews, and they are the cruellest race who are willing to genocide anyone who stands against their goals.

They sold you moronic slavs a fairy tale about how everyone will hold hands and sing kumbaya and share everything and be rich. And you idiots actually believed them.

>>132632911
Because no ukranian anti-commie rebellions happened before war. And Ukrainians made a big part of Red Army and were not known for treason like crimean tartars chechens and other scum.

>>132617517

Totalitarian regimes always need an imminent outside threat. It causes fear and panic and moves people closer to the regime.

>>132632978

Man the media is really trying to hype up oedipus here

>>132631401
How can you call yourself a Nazi if you haven't even read Mein Kampf? He constantly stressed Germany's need for lebensraum in the East, which could only be accomplished through the conquest and colonization of Eastern Europe.

I don't get how you can deny something like this, considering Hitler was literally talking about it non-stop for 20 years before he even took power. It's not even that illogical of a position, if you take away the moral aspect. If Hitler got his "lebensraum", Germany's population today would be over 200 million, and it would be the undisputed world hyperpower

>>132633164

The first thing the short lived Ukrainian republic did after gaining independence in 1918 was fight against the communists

>>132632192
Since this fucktard keeps pushing for evil Stalin who also in 30s had the heads of the Ukrainian SSR shot organizing it all, let me show you anons how it actually goes.

>government takes away a portion of food while leaving behind enough to let farmers live
>peasants refuse to properly cooperate, don't want to share their worktools with the rest of the village
>the government representatives, most often locals, assume that since there was no ecological cataclysm and crops should be fine
>the representatives take their portion
>their bosses bump the number up some in the documents
>the bosses' bosses bump the number up in the documents
>bosses' bosses' bosses' do that too
>result is, some people die of natural causes, some do starve, but most importantly it's hard to tell who really starved and died due to hunger-related issues and who just died

All in all the question isn't about how much starved to death. It's about how much deaths were caused by malnourishment.
Povolzhye, or however you write it in English, is the region that was hit hardest with hunger. Not Ukrainian at all.
During said hunger's years, this region with most deaths from hunger, standing at population I'd 9mln 416 thousand lost 3296 directly to hunger.

Funny thing is, Kazakhstan had starvation deaths too, and much heavier than Ukraine. They lost more people percentage wise, according to their data.
Wanna know why they don't demand contributions from Russia?
Because they don't have anything to gain from Russia, unlike Ukraine who wants a lot.

>>132633154

Trump also promised all the hicks lower taxes and improvement of life. All politicians are full of shit. Some more than others, but all of them lie.

>>132633164
>Because no ukranian anti-commie rebellions happened before war.
Except this one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_War_of_Independence

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>>132633154
>They sold you moronic slavs a fairy tale about how everyone will hold hands and sing kumbaya and share everything and be rich. And you idiots actually believed them.

this is the greatest explanation of how Bolsheviks conquered E. Europe by 1945 I've ever read.

Why do pwople write whole books on that subject? Cant they just hire a leaf to give a 5 min lecture at military academies etc.?

>>132632713
They did take away the food you fucknugget, Russian empire exported it, during WW1 due to less export options Russian people started eating more, even, since they had more food remain.

>>132632192
That pic is from India dumbass. Those are Indians intentionally starved by Winston Churchill. There's actually evidence Churchill starved them, while there's no evidence Stalin starved Ukrainians.

Provide proof that Ukrainians "rejected communism" or fuck off.

>>132633154
Lenin-Stalin style of communism worked well until 60-70s. Level of life in Russia was actually pretty high in 60s.

>Absolutely, they are jews, and they are the cruellest race who are willing to genocide anyone who stands against their goals.
The Earth is flat, do you know that? It is also a jew conspiracy, be carefull

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>>132633405
Trump is actually slowly fulfilling every single one of his campaign promises. He's the only politician in my life time that I've ever seen live up to his promises. The only ones he hasn't fulfilled are the ones that his party are blocking him from doing.

Hell, he even forced the supreme court to reverse their decision on the travel ban.

Trump's a US hero.

Perhaps the reason you're so jaded, is because you're a communist, and all commie politicians are full of shit.

>>132632713

>Britfags with an average wealth of almost a third of a million

Fucking lies.

>>132633627

>Lenin-Stalin style of communism worked well until 60-70s

Simply because Russia was a backwards country and they pushed for rapid industrialization. But you are ignoring the human, social and environmental costs to this "progress".

>>132633627
why would you change a system if it is running well?

>>132633612
>Provide proof that Ukrainians "rejected communism" or fuck off.
Jesus, you Russians are retarded, no wonder the jews tricked you into becoming commie. I already answered this lie,

See: >>132633478

>>132633685

Theres not a rats ass chance in hell he will decrease middle class taxes, and if he will it will be at the cost of deductions while at the end people still lose money.

He is a poster boy for GOP. That means killing Obamacare, lower taxes for the highest brackets and a few measures that benefit the corporate world, like fucking up environmental laws to save a few bucks. There wont be walls, deportation militias or actual tax relief for most lol.

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>>132633627
>Level of life in Russia was actually pretty high in 60s.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Omg, you deserve communism.

>>132633478
>>132633351
I was talking about Ukranian SSR era till WW2. Everyone fought everyone in russian civil war, there was no legit central power after all.

>>132633946
Soviet leader should have turned their brain on and did what Chinese did, even if it's bad for ideology and propaganda. Instead they started to sell oil

>>132634123
>That means killing Obamacare
For many people Obamacare tripled premiums. Companies went bankrupt because they couldn't afford to pay their employees' insurance anymore. Who the fuck supports Obamacare?
>lower taxes for the highest brackets
Always with your hands in other peoples' pockets. Try working for a living.
>and a few measures that benefit the corporate world
We want corporations to go bankrupt and the economy to falter? I love how commies hate businesses and jobs.

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>>132634400
>I was talking about Ukranian SSR
Hahahaha, no, you were talking about Ukraine you dolt.

Ukraine lost the war, that was why it became Ukrainian SSR. They were broken, Hitler was their last hope that half of the century.

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>>132625288
>Germany annexes Sudetenland
>better invade 7 countries in self-defense

>>132634620

Like I said. GOP (by the book). Just with a different cover.

>>132634511
>Soviet leader should have turned their brain on and did what Chinese did
You mean killing millions of birds so that insect populations would rise and eat all their crops?

Or producing millions of wagons with metal wheels that were too heavy for horses to pull?

Communism is a joke, wherever you find it.

>>132634079
That was in 1917 retard. And it was the German puppet government vs. Makhno's anarchists vs. East Ukrainian Communists vs. many others, so calling it the "Ukrainian war of independence" is laughably ridiculous. Most Ukrainians didn't support the German puppet regime.

The famine happened in 1932-33, 25 years after 1917. Find me evidence that Ukrainians rejected communism in the '30s and '20s or get the fuck out

>>132619241

>Stalin himself said in the early 1930s that when the next great war came he would throw all the weight of russia into the war and decide the outcome at the right time
>That is no evidence that he would have attacked Hitler.
>The fact that Stalin himself said that when the next great war (pretty much inevitable given the influence of certain (((peoples))) he would throw all the weight of Russia (like he did in ww2, he planned this years in advance, because you can't adapt mass production factories the entire country over to produce tanks on a moment notice, it ask a shitload of planning and management AKA you need the steel for all that fancy shit and it sure wasn't all produced at once. that is probably one of the thing that ticked Hitler off about Stalin plans, kinda suspicious when your megalomaniac neighbor stockpile ammo, no?) is no evidence that he would have attacked Germany, pretty much the sole superpower that could genuinely hamper the expansions plan of the USSR.

You're one hell of a naive kid, may you be shill or not

>>132631444

>Brazilian dipshit who doesn't realize purge within the military is a blatant sign of disagreement between the leaders of the government and the military, more of the time because the military leaders aren't proactive enough for the leader taste because its incredibly easy for a politician to dispose of a problematic generals per example than a generals disposing of a problematic politician, since one will be given no attention while the others will be called a coup d'etat.

Are you one of the dipshit who believe the purge made by Erdogan, per exemple, were actually made on the concern that they could be Gulenist? As if tens of thousands of peoples across the entire of the state apparatus could suddenly be identified nigh instantly as traitor and sent to dungeon without proper procedure, as if the Turkish government was even competent enough to realize such an endeavor.

>>132634833
>Ukraine lost the war, that was why it became Ukrainian SSR.
There was no Ukraine, idiot. They were part of the Russian Empire before

>>132635163
Except that speech was a proven fake by French anti-communists. No record of such a speech has ever been found.

It's fake, just like your pic of starving Bengali "Ukrainians". It's another lie you've blindly swalloed like a good goy slave, without bothering to even spend 30 seconds checking sources.

You're willing to believe the most outlandish lies, without exercising any skepticism whatsoever, as long as the lie is in sync with your shitty worldview. Literally kys, your existence is a net burden on the species.

>>132635163

>Brazilian dipshit

stopped reading there

>>132635236

Dude, you're so triggered you didn't even realize I wasn't the guy who posted the Ukrainian whatever photo

Calm the fuck down, you over-sensitive prick

>>132635163
Just curious, are you a Canadian of Ukrainian descent? When did your ancestors come to Canada?

>>132635100

>Find me evidence that a population that was starved half to death being able to fight back

The USSR could not invade before 1942, they would of been crushed before the lend lease kicked it.

>>132635259

Your country is a literal shithole and a clear representative of the peoples that live in it, a country where leaders are thief, where the worst of criminal get coddled like children if they have enough money, where some of the wrongest and most fucked up of drugs like scopolamine abound, where quartering some poor sod with a rusty knife is seen as a reasonable consequence for working for a opposing cartel, where enraged sports fan actually go as far as kill the fucking referee because his actions didn't please the fans, etc etc.

Your land is one of horrors, you only have yourself to blame as a nation if it doesn't improve.

Get fucked you third world mongrel.

>>132634833
> another quality leafpost
Day of the rake cannot come too fast. Kill yourself, you fag.

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>>132635884
>Your country is a literal shithole

>>132635768
Allies would have invaded sooner or later, Soviet Union just had to wait until that to force the 2 front war on the Axis powers
Stalin was in a win-win position

>>132636008

Bravo, and you've just proved to me why it is so.

Just look at your reaction! Your country is strife is misery, and you act like a foreigner was in the wrong to point it out, you stupid, prideful fuck!

Good fucking luck, you'll need it because it sure ain't you who is going to help improving the place.

>>132635438
It's a shame Stalin couldn't kill your filthy traitor ancestors fast enough before they ran away to Canada like faggot pussy bitches

>>132617517
Zhukov suggested military action. German attack was pre-emptive and it is foolish to assume the alliance was anything more than temporary. Soviets had the idea mowing around at the upper levels, but the Germans actually acted on it. Ideological differences, really.

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>>132636232
>Your country is strife is misery

stopp..

>>132636753
>Zhukov suggested military action

No he didn't. And stop pretending you know about it. Zhukov wasn't even part of the Stavka before the war.

>German attack was pre-emptive and it is foolish to assume the alliance was anything more than temporary
That gambling really went well for Germany heh

>Soviets had the idea mowing around at the upper levels

Maybe, but for sure they weren't preparing a invasion.

>>132631444

>>132636994
Fucking Canadians, right?

The "Soviet union wanted to attack Germany" argument that gets often brought up here is retarded. Everyone knew of Geemanys "Lebensraum" plan.

>>132636753
Stalin shut Zhukov down. From "Roosovelt and Stalin" by Susan Butler, pg 189:

"Zhukov perservered, which only infuriated Stalin, who said, 'Do you want a war because you don't have enough medals? If you're going to provoke the Germans on the frontier by moving troops there without permission, then heads will roll.' Stalin then had left the room, slamming the door behind him"

When the invasion happened (pg 191):

At dawn... Zhukov and Timoshenko found him there [in the Kremlin] 'very pale... sitting at the table clutching a loaded unlit pipe in both hands... bewildered,' saying, 'A provocation of the German officers... Hitler surely does not know about it'"

'Stalin still refused to believe that Hitler had sanctioned the invasion. It was not until Count Friedrich von der Schulenburg handed the German declaration of war to Molotov that Stalin was convinced."

"'They fell upon us, without making any claims, not demanding any negotiations, they made a vile attack like bandits,' said Stalin, at last coming face-to-face with reality"

>>132637613

I really don't care.

>>132617517
it's true. read icebreaker by viktor suvorov

>>132637348
>No he didn't.
Yes, he did.
>Zhukov wasn't even part of the Stavka before the war.
He still recommended it. He wasn't a part prior to the Operation, but that wasn't the beginning of the war.
>That gambling really went well for Germany heh
Doesn't change the fact that the alliance was shoddy, at best.
>Maybe, but for sure they weren't preparing a invasion.
Never said they were. Germans took advantage of that. The alliance was not going to last forever. Like I said, ideological differences.
>>132637678
Nice try, but I never said Stalin accepted it. I challenge you to find the point where I made that assertion. Keep attacking strawmen, though.
>They fell upon us, without making any claims, not demanding any negotiations, they made a vile attack like bandits,' said Stalin, at last coming face-to-face with reality
Read Mein Kampf. Not exactly forgiving of Marxism. Ideological differences led to rifts, Germans capitalized on the shoddy alliance and struck first. The idea of attacking the Germans was floating around, seeing as how Zhukov suggested it. Call me crazy, but allies don't usually talk about such things. You don't hear Mad Dog talking about invading Canada, you know, as just "an idea lol".

>>132617735
Pretty sure there were even plans on paper about an invasion and even (((modern historians))) agree that it would have happened.

>>132618430
Which was exactly why they wanted to wait until germany allocates all their effort on fighting the france/britain, so they can easily cash in on land in the west.

>>132638502
>Which was exactly why they wanted to wait until germany allocates all their effort on fighting the france/britain, so they can easily cash in on land in the west.


this, only a naive fool would believe otherwise. Like I already said.
"Allies would have invaded sooner or later, Soviet Union just had to wait until that to force the 2 front war on the Axis powers
Stalin was in a win-win position"

Yes but not for a while
the soviet military wasn't ready yet

>>132638478
Stalin read Mein Kampf but overestimated Hitler's intelligence. Pg 188:

"'I am certain that Hitler will not risk creating a second front by attacking the Soviet Union. Hitler is not such an idiot and understands that the Soviet Union is not Poland, not France, not even England,' Stalin said on June 15"

Despite the genocidal rhetoric in Mein Kampf, Stalin still (correctly) saw the British Empire as the main force of evil in the world. Hitler could have been an ally in a common struggle, if only he wasn't so megalomaniacal and meth-addicted

Pg 185:

"[Stalin] didn't trust Churchill... The premier growled to Zhukov, "We're being threatened with the Germans, and the Germans with the Soviet Union. They're playing us off against each other.'"

>>132631401
>Why would Russians join an organization allegedly engaging in subjugation and enslavement or extirmination of Russians?
People will gladly stab their own in the backs for power.

>>132640138
The larger point I'm trying to make is that none of this would make sense if Stalin was planning to attack Germany. Why would he attack someone he thought he could ally with against a far more insidious and powerful enemy?

>>132640138
>Stalin read Mein Kampf but overestimated Hitler's intelligence
Taking from the other anon: "That gambling really went well for Germany heh".
Again, none of which actually refutes the idea that the alliance was shoddy and that the ideological rifts led to the alliance falling apart. Strong allies don't talk about invasion, let alone have one party actually invade.
>>132640578
>The larger point I'm trying to make is that none of this would make sense if Stalin was planning to attack Germany.
He wasn't, though. They weren't right about to go, and the Germans did it first. The Germans decided the alliance was over and did it. It was like a Mexican standoff, the Germans just pulled the trigger first. The Soviets weren't just waiting around, wanting to be conquered. The thought had crossed their mind, that maybe the Germans weren't going to be best buddies forever.