Refute this, protip you can't.

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>>132487581
>5 words
>dat flag
>dat shitpost

thanks for playing

>>132487737
Intellectual midget

>>132487581
Then quit your job, start own business and pay fair share to your workers.
Modern commies can only complain, fucking crybabies.

Bill has 1 ton of potatoes he will sell them for $1
Tim wants 1 ton of potatoes he will buy them for $1.5
Sam buys bills potatoes and sells them to tim and makes a profit of $500

You fucking idiot, value is not intrinsic it is perceived, or do you genuinely think fidget spinners are a miraculous invention that everyone needs in their life.

>>132487581
Profits are the reason you even have a job. If there were no profits, the business owner wouldn't be able to stay in business. And without business owners to hire your non-entrepreneur non-self starter ass, you'd starve to death. Really.

>>132487905
Then Bill can afford to give his workers a bonus, instead of being a capitalist pig who puts profits before people. Scum.

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>>132487581
Did the commies intend for the Soviet flag to look similar to a fast food logo, but ironically since there is no food in a commie society?

>>132487794
>commie
>calls someone else stupid
You're a real piece of work are you?

>>132487581
example of pure Leaf mind here.....stupid

>>132488005
>not understanding what 'profits' are

>>132487581
yeah the nonwhite working class

it's colonialism, not capitalism

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Everyone should be slaves because it's fair.....

>>132488057
How does anyone afford to hire more workers or expand? Population is steadily increasing, meaning more people in the job market, meaning businesses better be growing or you're going to have a larger and larger impoverished class

But i don't expect you to into logic, you postmodernist scum

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>currently on page 2
Let's keep it moving, obvious bait here.

>>132487581
Profits are the beneficial side-effect of Capital increasing itself.

>>132488057
Bill has no workers, no one in this illustration has workers.
All they have is potatoes, maybe they should pay the potatoes more.

This is stupid Communism has never worked, while capitalism seems to just keep on working despite producing complete wastes of time like fidget spinners.

How does it feel having your ideal utopia be crushed by fidget spinners and rubber dog shit.

>>132487581
wages
are
profits
for
being
poor
.
suck
it

>>132487581

People will always accept a wage to work for someone else without having to take on the risks of the actual running and maintenance of the business.

Lets assume that the entire system changed and literally everyone who gets paid any kind of wage works for companies that have no central management that delegate tasks or pay for the required upkeep of whatever machinery or other things that the business needs to continue to operate.

Who pays for that maintenance and upkeep then? The workers.

How do the workers make money? By selling their product to other people.

What if no one buys the product, or there's only enough to give all the workers an equal share of $1 a day after the costs of manufacture?

Who delivers the goods to market? The workers still? So they spend all day manufacturing, lets say, tyres and then if you need a tyre you just go to the local tyre yard? What if there's not a tyre yard near you? You have to travel 100 miles with no tyres to get a tyre, because why would anyone deliver goods anymore when that isn't a service that generates money, only moves items from point A to point B?

I mean I could go on. Communism is so fucking easy to pick apart I can't believe it's still so fashionable. It's a good way to know who isn't worth spending time on.

Profits are incentives, why bother to do it if you don't have anything to gain

Tell 10 people they get $1000 if they come first in a race and then tell 10 others they get nothing if they win

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>>132487581
Shit newfag bait thread, 7/10

>>132487581
Brainlet.

Saged.

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1. Accounting profit =/= economic profit
If you compare the ingoing and outgoing cashflows over a given period of time, you might mistake their difference for "protif". This is however not the case anymore, once you take into account the investments that had to be made to get the business started, the fixed costs, the opportunity costs etc.

2. Value of the product is not solely determined by the value of labor. The value theory of labor has been discarded long time ago.

3. Most markets are not monopolistic. The producers have only little influence on the prices of good.

4. The only economic system with true social justice is islamic economics.

>>132487905
>middlemen

You've obviously never started or ran anything in your life. Some folks don't believe life owes them anything, so they don't buy them new Jordan's or expensive car. They save that money to start a business. Then they barely make ends meet for the first few months (sometimes years) as they build their client base. Then, once they've finally started making a little extra money... some whiner tries to tell them they are stealing from their employees. Grow up. Start a business. Hire a free people. Pay them all your profits. Then you'll have a moral high horse from which to flog us with.

>>132487581
then how do I reinvest into my business in order to expand it, and in so doing hiring more 'working class' people?

>>132487581
What is, if the business losses money? Should it pay its workers less? Maybe nothing at all?
What is, if it even get bankrupt? Should the worker pay?

This system is retarded and only shows, how litte to nothing commis know about economic. They are self centered and morally justified it with "but we are the people!".

>>132489234
you don't, you basically suicide

>>132487581

I guarantee "Vivian" has never been part of the working class.

>>132489862
Communism is based only on envy.

>this guy has something I don't have
>therefore we need to kill him

>>132488508
You keep thinking about potatoes and other things on your mental level, meanwhile I'll be reading the works of Marx and other distinguished intellectuals.

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This assumes the workers are not being paid equivalent to the value to their employer.

PROFITS
ARE
THE
WAGES
OF
THE
PEOPLE
WHO
DO
THE
MOST
WORK

REFUTE IT, PROTIP, YOU'RE FUCKING STUPID.

>>132487867
Do eeeet eberywan

>>132489234
The problem is they don't. I've worked with so many small business owners who think expansion should only happen when they can still afford their two houses and Junior's BMW.

>>132487581
What are co-ops? Not every business needs to be a co-op, but there are some that pay dividends on their annual profit, after all the overhead is paid for.

>>132487581
>go interview with employer
>get contract with offer for doing X for Y units of currency
>agree to contract
>don't get part of the profit
WOW WHAT THE FUCK, MAN.

>>132487581
No. Profits are the wages earned by the business, shareholders, investors, and leadership teams.
Profits are what most often goes back into the business to help create or maintain growth.
Wages are what is given to employees as part of their voluntary agreement to work. If they don't like their wages, they are free to seek employment elsewhere.

>>132487581
>patueotwc
From the thumbnail I was expecting some sort of clever vertical initialism, but it wasn't, so fuck them.

Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.

*sips tea*

>>132488112
>lives on gibs

>>132491618
>required to work or starve
>y-you're free!!
how did anarcho-capitalism even become a thing?

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>>132491874
>required to anything

>>132487581
What exactly stops you from making your own company, give jobs to people and pay them what you want? Nothing, except the fact that you are a lazy faggot with no ambition who'd rather sit in his room complaining about non existent problems on the internet.

>>132491967
lmao ah yes you get to "choose" whether to work or starve. what a great system.

>>132492110
You can go out in the forest and live off berries, hunt for squirrels, and so forth, if you want to, or is it that also """work""" in your mind?

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>>132491874
>work or starve
>people would rather believe that capitalism causes this than going and get a job

>>132492231
How can I do that when all the property is already owned in an an-cap society? There's no "wilderness" for me to go to without violating the NAP.

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>>132492396
source? you are like a little babby that has only cut their teeth on self referential ideology

>>132491727
What are you talking about. There's many socialist programs in America.
>welfare
>Medicaid
>VA assistance
>SNAP
>HUD
ETC ETC ETC

>>132492396
That's a completely hypothetical scenario, that you orchestrated to """refute""" my argument. Try again.

Also I have no idea what relation this had to whiny bitches bitching about not getting a part of company profits, when this obviously is what allows them to get better work conditions, high salary, etc, so yeah in short: get bent dumb fuck commie.

>>132487581
Profits are the driving vehicle to expand a business so that more can be employed. Profits are inclusive to the betterment of more

>>132492110
Yes that's generally how it works.
Why should you be entitled to the products earned by those who chose to work?

>>132492498
In anarcho-capitalism there is no such thing as "federal land".

>>132491874
>I have to do things to get things? Thats oppressiv.
>it is my right to get stuff. We are only free, if I force you to give me your money.

I am not even an ancap. You are just retarded at this point.

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>>132487581

Correct. That's how a company survives and keeps those jobs. If the company DOESN'T make a profit EVERYONE loses.

Marxists are idiotic whiny crybabies who don't do anything but blame others for their own faults.

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>>132487581

Profits are the wages of the people that funded and took the risk of setting up the company the employees work for.

Employees take less of a risk, so they receive lower rewards.

>>132492642
THEREFORE YOUR ASSERTION THAT ALL THE LAND IS OWNED
WAS WRONG, RETARD

>>132487581
Profits are a return on investment.

>>132492612
If you paid attention you'd know I was specifically talking about AnCap, and how retarded it is. Nobody starves in the current system because you can get NEETbux and whatever other programs exist.

But in Ancapistan the choice is simple: work or die. Communism has a similar mantra.

>>132492830
If there is no federal land the land will be owned by somebody. Christ this isn't hard you fucking idiot.

>>132488057
>he thinks bill is obligated to share his potato profits
>he thinks Ted handing all of his potatoes over to Ahmed instead of selling them isn't the real problem

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaba

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>>132492508
none of those have benefited our society
does socialism suck?

>>132492969
source?

>>132493021
>correlation = causation
ok ok we get it, you're fully tarded

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>>132487581

>anarchist
>espousing viewpoints in favor of the most totalitarian form of government the world has ever witnessed

>>132487581

So nobody should start a business unless they're willing to run it like a charity and pay workers out of their own pockets?

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>>132492914
>Nobody starves in the current system because you can get NEETbux and whatever other programs exist.
and those only exist because of white capitalist male taxpayers
which means we dint need taxation for those programs dummy

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>>132487581
Lol how the fuck would a shop restock on goods?

How will a company earn enough to invest in machinery?

Has this ideology been riddled by famines and slavery? Sound pretty logical if it did.

>>132493123
you are the one claiming tax funded programs is what leads to lower levels of starvation
projection?

>>132487581
What about the people who invent and run the company? Do they not deserve a paycheck?

>>132493250
>posts argument that doesn't make sense
>posts that stupid one page """""rebuttal""""" to government healthcare
he can't be this stupid.

>>132493380
objectively and this has been true.

>>132492914
>If you paid attention you'd know I was specifically talking about AnCap, and how retarded it is.
>It's inherent that every single square inch of land is owned under an AnCap system
Wrong.

>Nobody starves in the current system because you can get NEETbux and whatever other programs exist.
Yes, some people do, but FAR the majority don't, exactly because companies keep profits to expand their business, and hire more people they wouldn't hire otherwise, if they had to redistribute every single penny they made above maintenance.

>But in Ancapistan the choice is simple: work or die. Communism has a similar mantra.
Survival requires a minimum effort of food and water. You CANNOT avoid work, if you want food and water, or at least, have somebody else do it, if you're some scumbag neet. Even this system today has the mantra "work or die". Where the fuck do you think NEETbux come from? Someone is just creating twice the fucking value of the average Joe, in order to feed someone else. The "work" is not eliminated, just because someone else is paying. How fucking stupid are you?

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>>132487581
>patuwotwc

What did she mean by this?

>>132493614
>Wrong.
[citation needed] because there will obviously be a massive gold rush for unclaimed land. Even Murray Rothtard, oops, Rothbard recognized this.

>Yes, some people do, but FAR the majority don't, exactly because companies keep profits to expand their business, and hire more people they wouldn't hire otherwise, if they had to redistribute every single penny they made above maintenance.
Actually it's exactly because there's a safety net to keep people from starving that was created pretty much exactly when the free market failed.

>Survival requires a minimum effort of food and water. You CANNOT avoid work, if you want food and water, or at least, have somebody else do it, if you're some scumbag neet. Even this system today has the mantra "work or die". Where the fuck do you think NEETbux come from? Someone is just creating twice the fucking value of the average Joe, in order to feed someone else. The "work" is not eliminated, just because someone else is paying. How fucking stupid are you?
In Ancapistan employment will be required for the vast majority of people not to starve. Even today you can go and pick berries or drink out of a mountain stream. This will be impossible to do without breaking the NAP in Ancapistan where property is 100% owned.

>>132493995
In conclusion, I'm sorry you took work to mean any kind of labor and not specifically employment.

>>132487794
>Communist
>Taking the intellectual high ground

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>>132493646
She want's her tits slapped around.

>>132493607
Correlation=/=causation

>>132493995
>[citation needed]
What the fuck? Anarcho capitalism is capitalism with no state. You're the one claiming a long series of bullshit, like all land being owned. That's hypothetical, and I might as well say just "no, not in my hypothetical scenario where everything is perfect" in response. Also I don't pray to Rothbard as if he's some kind of Messiah, so I don't really care what hypothetical shit he recognized might happen.

>Actually it's exactly because there's a safety net to keep people from starving that was created pretty much exactly when the free market failed.
[citation needed] :^)

>In Ancapistan employment will be required for the vast majority of people not to starve.
Probably, yes, as it is today.

Even today you can go and pick berries or drink out of a mountain stream.
So go do that, if you don't want to work.

>This will be impossible to do without breaking the NAP in Ancapistan where property is 100% owned.
DUDE LMAO HYPOTHETICAL SHIT.

>>132487581
"Refute this, protip you can't"

many, many responses later

"i will pretend to move to a higher level of intellectual thought to ignore you when im really just ignoring your comments because they dont align with my political views and that hurts my feelings"

>>132494708
In conclusion, I hope people don't bully you too much for being a special needs kid.

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>>132494708
>What the fuck? Anarcho capitalism is capitalism with no state. You're the one claiming a long series of bullshit, like all land being owned. That's hypothetical, and I might as well say just "no, not in my hypothetical scenario where everything is perfect" in response. Also I don't pray to Rothbard as if he's some kind of Messiah, so I don't really care what hypothetical shit he recognized might happen.
Why would any land be unowned in ancapistan? Use some fucking logic.

>[citation needed] :^)
I mean, the Great Depression occurred and the New Deal happened.

>So go do that, if you don't want to work.
The problem in Ancapistan is that I can't do that, as all land will be owned.

>>132494872
>I have no argument so I will insult you.
FTFY

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>>132487581

Wagecucks aren't entitled to the profits of their employees.

>>132487581

Profit is the interest workers pay for being paid in advance. Hence profit-interest system.

Individual proprietors

>>132492110
It is when the alternative commie system demands we all steal from one another until everyone starves.

Only good commies = Dead commies

>>132487581
As long as workers cannot be trusted with the responsibility of setting aside their earnings to privately reinvest into their own companies whom they ascertain full productivity thus full responsibility for, then they cannot be entrusted with their full earnings for the sake of the business' health and ultimately the longevity of their very own employment. They might as well consider the manager or owner as tasked with, among other things, the effective and sustainable delegation of finances.

If they believe themselves such paragons of managing finance, and since they already know how to do the work, they have the freedom to open their own business and funnel the unpaid profits back to themselves as vindictive restitution, not surprisingly befitting of their nature.

>>132494976
I see you don't know what an argument is. You'll get far here on /pol/.

>>132494957
>Why would any land be unowned in ancapistan? Use some fucking logic.
Because I treat human psychology with more factors than just "GREED, LMAO".

>I mean, the Great Depression occurred and the New Deal happened
You mean a decade or so AFTER the federal reserve was created, and AFTER currency contraction, deficit spending, elaborate government sponsored Ponzi schemes, became thing? You mean AFTER the Fed. Reserve allowed for greater inflation and price hikes, which inevitably led to bubble bursts, currency contraction, etc? WOW DUDE YEAH, I see now, THAT'S free market black magic at work.

>The problem in Ancapistan is that I can't do that, as all land will be owned.
[citation needed]

>>132487581
absolutely fucking saged you trash fucking shitposter
mods why the FUCK aren't you doing your job??

The whole point of the pre-set wage is that employees are guaranteed money even if the output fails.
>Massive profit, employees deserve to share the extra money!!
And what if the business fails, should all the employees be paid nothing?

>>132487581
You don't care about the working class.

>>132492805
>take less of a risk

He who produces the good should be entitled to the profit. Risk doesn't mean shit because the employers labor is demonstrably lower.

>>132488379
This

>>132487581

without profits you have no job creation. profits lead to growth, which lead to more jobs.

Also, the market is not determined by human fee fees.

>>132487581
you know there's more shit behind a business that just the workes right?

>>132496459
It kind of is. That's the theory of praxeology

>>132487581
What are losses then?

>>132488066
Heh. Good one.

>>132496419
You don't care about the working class (((capitalism))) doesn't but neither does (((communism))). Don't tell me (((communism)))isn't (((communism)))either. Every person revealed to be a spy by the venona papers was a Jew besides Alger hiss and Henry dexter white. Minor trumpism(actual protectionism and minor isolationism, with the ability to invest and actually tax)can work. The USA did it all throughout the 19th century until the collapse of 1907. Which was manufactured by the (((capitalists))) so they could spark (((communist))) sentiments out of the actual working and middle class.

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>>132487581

>>132496419
>He who produces the good should be entitled to the profit.
He's entitled to what he agreed.

>Risk doesn't mean shit because the employers labor is demonstrably lower
Lower on what parameters exactly? A CEOs work has orders of magnitude more impact on every single worker, than a single worker's work has. Also, all my bosses work harder and longer than I do, and they get payed more, not only as a result of their work hours, but because of their importance.

Don't need to.

You'll still keep working for me.

>>132488880

This guy gets it.

Capitalism isn't perfect, but it's the least worst system we have.

>>132496459
>the market is not determined by human fee fees
People on /pol/ push for boycotting products all the time based on emotion. The effectiveness of such boycotts on larger companies isn't always apparent but that's because they go on apology tours and retain as many customers as possible. That doesn't mean they don't take a hit in the market though.

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>>132496419

Listen kids, set up your own business when you're older and tell me the employers labour is demonstrably lower.

In small and medium enterprises in particular, the employer/owner of the business takes a significant risk in setting up a business and taking on employees. If the business becomes unprofitable it may result in bankruptcy for the employer and damage their ability to regain prosperity ever again.

If you are an employee of a company that fails, you simply lose your job (usually resulting in a redundancy payment) and you can go on to find another job.

So yeah, the employer takes more risk in setting up the company that provides the employee with work. No goods would be produced with the company being set up, the employee would not be earning anything as a result.

Profit = Pay for the employer. He doesn't just exist to provide employment. He takes the greater risk and therefore deserves the lionshare of the takings.

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>>132488066

>>132497361
>People on /pol/ push for boycotting products all the time based on emotion.
ok? every single one of those people could have been communists

>>132487581
profits (or losses) are the culmination of revenues and expenses OP. How do we suppose Vivian might define loses? Are they amounts that ought to be taken out of wages?

>>132489014
>4. The only economic system with true social justice is islamic economics.


Explain yourself, Ahmed.

>>132487581
i can refute this :
Robots.

>>132498269

He wont. All it amounts to is semantics and calling interest a fee

>>132498011
The point I was making was that you don't have to look far to see that people boycott based purely on emotion and that if can affect the market. I didn't feel like bothering to dig up any of the countless non-issues people used to boycott shit like Starbucks or Chick-Fil-A.

>>132491141
He just did. Go start your own business and pay people as much as you want them to be paid. You'll see real fast why the world is not as you see it.
Also sage this slide thread.

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>>132488880
>>132497286
This, in a nutshell.

Capitalism is similar to democracy in that it's prone to corruption and exploitation and can lead to terrible, evil things - but they're still superior to the alternatives. Unless someone develops a new economic platform that can compete, capitalism is the obvious economic policy.

You don't see many people over 25 who are communists because it's a naive, romantic thing for kids to be into. It's a utopian fantasy where you lead a revolution and everyone loves you and hails you as a hero of the people, and you all live happily ever after. A lot of girls in college get into it because women are evolved to be distributors - they take what men bring home and make sure everyone in the family gets what they need - and the idea that some people have too little while some people have more than enough makes them feel bad. A lot of guys get into it because there are girls into it and they can pretend to be some kind of dangerous revolutionary who's trying to take care of poor people who can't take care of themselves.

There's a reason most people grow out of that shit.

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SAGE

>>132487581
>owner doesn't make his WAGE/profit
>owner decides to shut it down
>others do the same, less innovation less competitive market, less people want to start a business= fewer or no jobs and inferior products

That's how communism failed.
Problem is that most workers are literal morons with no creativity or ambition.

>>132487581
They are quite literally uncertainty turned into money. Sometimes it gets turned into debt instaed. A worker trades uncertainty for lower wages. An entrepreneur trades security for potentially higher wages.

>>132488112
in the case of the pic in the OP, "profits" refers to exactly what I was talking about: the money the employer makes from his business, the money that commie employees think they're entitled to.

Profit- the monetary surplus left to a producer or employer after deducting wages, rent, cost of raw materials, etc. Working class agreed to the wages they were given when they were employed tho, so there is nothing wrong with the "unpaid wages" thing.

>>132487581
Profits are the reason the company doesn't go bankrupt and you go unemployed.

>>132487581
if all the profit goes to the workers who is going pay for the R&D to make the next iPhone?

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So when a company makes no profit in a quarter I shouldn't get paid at all?

I am working with the guarantee of a paycheck

>>132487581
I'd rather have the money in the hands of people that have the determination and will to succeed than a bunch of low effort drones.

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I don't see why anybody would be against workers controlling the workplace, either through direct democracy or an elected (and re-callable) boss.

>mfw I sign a contract voluntarily with my employer detailing the exchange of my time and labor for a wage in return and everyone in this transaction does so willingly but I have no actual worth to society so I have to vote for people to pass laws with the full force of the law behind them stipulating what my employer will now give to me even though everything was an agreed upon contract that I can terminate at anytime.

>>132497850
>>132498912
why can't commies understand this??

>>132487581
>start up company
>takes years to reach breakeven
>do employees work for free in the meantime?

>>132487581
>businesses will work without profit motive
brainlet gommie alert

>>132500305
company has a bad quarter
>needs to lay off like 4,000 people, stat
>instead people vote to take out loan to cover losses, shorten work week and increase benefits
>company goes bankrupt, everybody fired
>oh well, let's go to the next company!

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>>132488508
>How does it feel having your ideal utopia be crushed by fidget spinners and rubber dog shit.

>>132487581
the existence of self-employed individuals

>>132500305
>workers controlling the workplace
confirmed high school "communist" faggot who has never worked a day in his life. if you knew how retarded and selfish the average worker was you would not advocate for this as it would destroy any business from the bottom-up

>>132487581
>Investment risks don't exist

Your turn.

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>>132487581

>>132501096
It's in everyone's interest to keep the company running and profitable, that's the point of an elected delegate. The only person not benefiting is the former bosses.

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>>132488379
You can't use logic with a commie. They just ignore it.

Profit is the cost of enterprise in the same way that wages are the cost of labour. Take no risks, you get no profit.

>>132500753
Hmmm, yes tanking the business that's collectively owned is definitely in the interest of the workers.

>>132501375
you're assuming that everyday workers will plan for the future rather than vote for gibsmedats

you have never worked a day in your life, have you?

>>132501375
Do you think your average factory worker understand economics? That's like saying in a democracy people elect the person who will keep the country safe and prosperous

>>132487581

Explain selling vegetables you raised yourself for money.

>>132500305

Many companies have an elected worker-director of the board to ensure that they have voice in running the company. I think that is fair enough. They don't deserve outright control but they do deserve a voice and a say in the direction the company takes.

>>132488379
This is more of an argument against capitalism than it is communism. When companies can't expand any further, and the finite resources of the planet become a barrier, how is capitalism going to cope with this? Money is a means to gain wealth, not the wealth itself.

>>132497361

What's your point? The market itself is not determined by fee fees. Fee fees may affect a market or certain markets, but the overall market itself is not a product, nor a slave to human feelings.

>>132496658
You mean that theory that literally no one save a small group of cultists takes seriously? The one that advocates throwing out statistics and econometrics?

>>132487581
That is exactly most people here thought.Until they learnt they were actually loans from capitalist nations.

>>132487581
Wait. If women gets paid 75% of a mans check. Why don't companies just hire all woman?

>>132501864
Don't dodge the question.. answer how communism would resolve that situation... No one is going to agree with you if you just deflect questions when ever they're hard to answer..

>>132501864
have you ever worked a day in your life?

my guess is no. you would not advocate for communism if you saw 35% of your paycheck go to nonworking niggers and the spics' obese spawn

>>132501802

You don't need an understanding of economics to understand how to run a business.

>>132501651
I'm European, and the people I work with tend to do pretty well with a strong union.

>>132501899
The market literally is a slave to human feelings, it exists to serve human wants which are motivated by feelings, are you even trying?

>>132491193
And they have every right to do that because it is their business, not yours.

profit is the amount over par value. profits were considered a sin in law for a simple reason. You are striking an unfair bargain.

That being said, the above is the legal justification for the income tax. Making a profit or gain is intrinsically an immoral behavior. The government allows this only if it can profit from the same immorality.

If people stuck to trading objects of intrinsic value there is no profit. There is no income tax on a cow for a chicken as long as you do not intend to "market" it.

The point of all this is that the entire financial system is based on valuing our goods and services on the government arbitrary decrees.

Stop doing that and we have no profits.

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>>132487581

Words to refute your faggoty bullshit:

Bitch better have my money!
Y'all should know me well enough
Bitch better have my money!
Please don't call me on my bluff
Pay me what you owe me
Ballin' bigger than LeBron
Bitch, give me your money
Who y'all think y'all frontin' on?
Bitch better have my money!

>>132489189
(((middlemen)))

>>132501899
>What's your point?
>Fee fees may affect a market or certain markets
You answered your own question you fucking retard.

ITT: A commie NEET ignores any reply that gets him BTFO

>>132487581
Profits is whats made after all the business expenses are accounted for. So the employees wages was already determined and paid out.
The profit belongs to the owners because it was their share of the agreement the employees made when they accepted the job.

>>132487581
Refute this, protip you can't.

Own an asset that can make you money and you won't be a communist any longer.

Communists are stupid: Capitalism works like this ---> you bust your ass in a shitty job to save money --> you use that money you saved to buy an asset that can create profit --> you use those profits to buy more assets --> rinse, repeat, take nice vacations while those assets make money for you.

Indeed, any "little guy" with any brains can live the dream. Just gotta get through the initial hard work.

>>132487581
That's not true. My online business generates me profit and I'm the only employee of my company. These communists faggots should learn a skill and stop crying

Economist here:

Marx got it wrong. Capital has to earn a return, otherwise people will not save, hence there will be no investment, and therefore no rise in productivity and no replenishement of capital and then there will be a crash in productivity.

Basically, LOOK AT NIGGERS IN AFRICA. They have no concept of future, so they do not save for later and do not invest in growth.

>>132490595
Instead of reading about failed economic policies you should get a job. Save your money and invest.

>>132487581
What's the value in inventing something?

>>132502423
>ITT: A commie NEET ignores any reply that gets him BTFO
this.

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>>132502713
>Basically, LOOK AT NIGGERS IN AFRICA. They have no concept of future, so they do not save for later and do not invest in growth.
pic related. top-tier read

>>132487581
What if I'm my only employee and I replaced all my spic labor with machinery?

>>132487581
I just lost money trading stocks. Did my money go to the working class? No, they went to more clever traders.

Likewise, if I *earned* money trading stocks, would my money come from working class? No, they would come from dumber traders.

>>132488112
>profits
Income - costs = profits

>>132491874
>required to work or starve
What's the alternative?

>>132487581

Yet this working class won't put their money at risk by starting a business of their own. Many businesses fail, mostly liberal idiots that think paying their workers 15-20/hour for basic work and they wonder why they can't stay in the black and are in so much debt that they have to close down in a few months.

>>132487581
Profits are always reinvested into the company so it's able to grow and provide for more workers. Most companies also share their profit by providing free food, Healthcare, fitness rooms and stuff. Some of them pay cash.

>>132502713
Tropics are about surviving day to day, there's no need for future concerns. Colder climates are about surviving the winter. It's necessary to plan ahead to thrive.

>>132492244
>Woman hunting
>Man complaining about being oppressed

>>132487581
THIS ISNT REAL COMMUNISM GUISE!!!

t. 15 year old summerfag on /pol/

>>132495231
>Natsoc
Don't think you're any less retarded than the commies, lefty faggot :^)

>>132503404
Yeah, profits are never siphoned out of the country's economy they came from and then stored in tax free havens...

>>132487581
this has been discussed countless times
spoiler: you're wrong

>>132487581
>my company can't turn a profit because all profits are paid to workers
>competitors able to deliver ROI to investors get much more investment
>use the extra investment to become more efficient and deliver better products and services
>competitors start capturing market share
>my company fails
>now the working class has the privilege of earning 100% of the non-existent profits because the company went out of business

>>132501864
>When companies can´t expand further

Then they go to space faggot and explore there
Thanks for the argument pro capitalism, I see you are getting

And even if they cannot go to space, the company is divided.
To a company reach it is limits it must already have the monopoly of all markets in the world, and since this is not legal, it simply can´t.

Thanks for playing commie faggot

>>132487581
wage is the negotiated amount someone is paid to do their jobs. Profit is whats left over after you subtract what you sell something for minus what you spent to make it.

>>132500305
In capitalism, workers can still do that. It is called a co-operative. The problem is when you bring governments into the mix. Basically, the business owners who risk their own money get replaced by bureaucrats who risk everybody's money. If you don't like how corporations are treating their employees. All of your commie friends can pool their money together to create a co-op. Basically, what you would do is hire employees are a normal salary. Then every quarter split the profits with your employees. You don't need a revolution to overthrow the system to do this. You just need to stop being a pussy.

>>132502423
>Implying I'm actually a commie and not just a baiting ausposter

>>132487581
>sign contract for a pre-determined wage
>b-b-b-buh i want more
you should have negotiated a better wage, then, faggot

>>132487581
not to forget the profits make the wages worth less.

>>132487581
Some working class people own businesses so straight away you know it's bollocks. Second, if I'm willing to work for x amount then why does it matter if others can make more money? Third, anyone who has been to a boot fair knows that people value things differently, I may sell some old shit to someone who then sells it for more down the boot fair, if they're willing to put the time and effort in to make profit on it then good for them

>>132490595
How about learning some useful shit like economy? and actually understanding how capitalism works?

That is why commies want a revolution, they read a bunch of shit, and want that it meant something

>>132488079
>communists
>work

>>132502253
>You don't need an understanding of economics to understand how to run a business.
Yeah and I don't need to be able to read and write to run a country, doesn't mean I'll be good at it.

>>132487581
ITT
The lower class defending the rich man's trove of gold that they worked to put in his hands.

Why would anyone cuck and shill for somebody else's benefits?
Just like white liberals shilling for niggers and shitskins at their own loss, fighting for somebody's else wealth while diminishing and ignoring yours.

>>132487581
Wages are the lost return on investment of the businessmen.
Refute this, protip you can't

>>132487581
Profit is return for your investment. Wage is returned for your investment of labor.

>>132504526
GIPSY

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>>132487581

>workers own nothing
>factory owners pay wages, all the bills, construction of facilities, etc.
>profits are unpaid wages
>LOL!!!

business owners and entrepreneurs take ALL the risks. What does the worker do? Work for a few hours and get paid to do as little as possible taking away from the hard work that has gone into the enterprise all around them.

Wake up, little man and move out of your parent's basement. You need to seriously sort yourself out, bucko.

>>132487581
Profits are the incentive for the entrepreneur to take risks, risk capital, hire labor, and provide goods and services to consumers.

wish they would stop identifying as anarchists, anarcho capitalism is the only real form of anarchism

>>132487581
they are not unpaid wages because wages are agreed upon before hiring. Working for someone is a mutual agreement.

>>132505334
this

>>132487581
profit is a business' growth and development fund/ emergency fund/ the wage of the business owner. companies make this profit off non employee consumers and most companies give employees discounts which allow workers to buy the goods they produce below cost which means if it takes 1 hour to produce the item the worker will be able to purchase said item with 1 hours wage. this throws most of marxism in the trash. also saged

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>>132487794
Profit is the reward for a lower time preference. Wages are immediate and certain, thus have a lower value. Profits are delayed and uncertain.

Communism's labor theory of value falls apart when you introduce time-preference and risk.

>>132505062
>a few hours and get paid to do as little as possible
the real issue. you want more money, work harder

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>>132488066 >>132496455 >>132492244 >>132498011 Checked and kekked

So I guess losses are the wrongfully paid expenses of the working class.
Thanks for the 40hours of work. This week you made -$480.

>>132503201
What is risk

>>132487581
p r o g r e s s i v e s
a r e
t h e
u n t h r o w n
c o m m u n i s t s
f r o m
h e l i c o p t e r s

>>132487581
Profits are the future wages of the working class.
FTFY

>>132505062

>>factory owners pay wages, all the bills, construction of facilities, etc.

Yes and for that they should be compensated with a fair wage, not a fair wage + profits.

You faggots are defending a practice as unscrupulous as usury. Their wouldn't be any profit if everyone was being paid a fair wage.

>>132504695

lmao you're retarded

How is investment and investment of labor any different? Labor=$$$ Investment=$$$

Fucking moron

>>132505296
>>132504695
>>132507719

>usury is the incentive to open a bank

Employees take equal risk in accepting a job as they could be doing something else with their time. THIS IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS AN ENTREPRENEUR WHO COULD DO SOMETHING ELSE WITH HIS CAPITAL.

You people are delusional in your desperate attempt to defend the cock you choke on.

>>132509046
would you to invest 10% of your share of profit into a new facility or new employees? no, because you wasted all on coke and hookers already.

>>132500305
I know of a few that do and they are complete shit working with completely outdated tech. Also this:
>>132500753
Democracy is inherently flawed. It only works in large scale.

>>132507453

>So I guess losses are the wrongfully paid expenses of the working class.

This guy gets it

>>132508454

cuck

>>132505062

>Business owners and entrepreneurs take ALL the risks. What does the worker do?

Holy shit you're stupid. There is opportunity cost for both employees and investors. They both are taking risk.

>Working class
LOL.
Get on with the times granpa we don't use these outdated words anymore, and anyway, don't you know that having a job is a privilege? Profit is just unpaid welfare for disprivileged groups like blacks and transsexuals.

>>132510030

That 10% should have been distributed in the paychecks of people across the company.

Damn, I btfo everyone in this thread

>>132510964
History has BTFO of every commie for us already. No need to argue with you.

>>132487581
Profit is the stuff you made. If you didn't profit, you destroyed stuff or left the amount of stuff exactly the same.

>>132496419
>He who produces the good should be entitled to the profit.

What about in the case of a loss? Is he on the hook for that? Or should he still get a paycheck for his labor and time?

>>132511281

I'm not a leftist, just pointing out what's true.

>>132511725
you're a jewish weasel

>>132512093

You're the one defending Jewish business owners who rip people off. Fucking moron, why would the Jews promote communism when it would cause civilization to collapse?

>>132493310
those arent actually profits
but profits are the store owners salary

>>132487581
Doesn't really matter. Autmation will replace all jobs in the next decade.

>>132487581
Show me a single organization, be it private or public, that can operate without capital.

>>132487581
They're the wages of the guy who owns the factory and buys the materials you work with.

>>132487581
h
o
w

d
r
a
m
a
t
i
c

>>132514058

That's not profit, but expense

>>132501864
1. Earth is really big, this wont be an issue for literal millennia
2. When it does become an issue we have an entire solar system full of materials.

>>132514058
This. Can't expand, can't upgrade, can't do anything if you're not making profit.

>>132514221

Yes and a loan at 30% interest marketed toward vulnerable people is just the salary of the large nosed banker.

>>132514434

Expenses for expansion and upgrades are expenses, not profit you fucking retard

>>132488057
He does give them a part of it and keeps a part for himself. If the part he keeps for himself is too big someone else will come along and offer a better price for the same service.

>>132487581
Implying profits aren't earnings to people who create jobs. Implying people who want to keep the money they earn are greedy but taking their money is not. Implying low wage cuck deserves decent salary.

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>>132504348
Kek

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>>132514841

Without the potential to make great profit, there is no point in risking everything for a basic wage. If you can get the same size carrot by simply working, why would anyone go to all the work of making a company?

If nobody bothers building companies, then everyone must work for the government, which will dole out jobs "as needed" and the corrupt ruling bureaucrats will get rich off the people's labor instead of individual private ventures with limited power.

Communism is pure fascism. Capitalism gives far more choice and freedom.

>>132491141
Being the boss means you'll be doing the most work.

>>132491874
Even commies know that those who do not work will not eat.

>>132487581
Demand high wages or get a better job
And don't go crying to the state, that just makes your stupid ass everyone's problem

>>132488112
Why would anyone put in the monumental work of owning and running a business if they were only allowed to break even or could only make as much as their lowest skilled employees?

>>132518258
>communism is pure fascism

You need to look up what both these words actually mean before posting here again

>>132511725
This is normal leftist tactics tho, pretending to be centrist or "everyone else" while pushing agendas and ideas to change narratives.

>>132493021
I think that means poverty just stabilized

>gives all profits to workers
>closes business because no profits
>everyone out of work

Good Job commies

>>132487581
Profits are the incentive of businessmen to create new jobs, innovative technologies, and better products.
Everytime you see those qualities lacking, competition corrects the problem except in cases where regulation prevents competition.

>>132487581
Profit is what a business can legally make while playing by the same rules as every other business

>>132487581
Profits are the incentive of the business owner to provide those jobs in the first place.

why would anyone invest in a company if they can't take any reward?

The standard commie line of "seize the means of production" is a tacit admission that said means have inherent value and represent an investment of time, money and labour. By definition, if people are entitled to the fruits of their labour then the owners of the means of production are entitled to the products of what is a hefty investment, during which labourers were invariably paid for work which, at the time, generated no revenue.

>>132503880
>money stored in "tax free havens" actually devalues, because it does not grow at the rate of inflation

This is why the rich invest their money.

>>132518722

Nice rebuttal. It's definitely clear you have no idea what they mean.

I think you mean shareholders bby girl

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>>132487581
Protip: do yourself and the world a favor, and buy yourself one of pic related. You dumb bitch

>>132501643

The workers have no fucking reason to even understand how or why their company functions. All they want is their paycheck, but barely even understand how they get that. There is a reason why unions are a drain on company resources, and that's because they are notoriously difficult to fire and just want gibs from their bosses.

The real people with democratic power like you suggested are the shareholders, which CAN be the people working at the company, but might not necessarily be. They are the ones that really lose money if a company fails, so they want to protect it at all costs, even if that means firing thousands of employees.

>>132510371

Democracy works worse on a large scale. Hell, the only times it works best is when you can look each other in the eye in the same room.

Democracy just means that 51% of people get to tell the other 49% what to do. Fuck that, individual accountability is the best system.

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socialists are fags. Humans need a drive. else we'll all be chilling at home everyday eating shit and playing games like niggers

>>132487581

The network you used to spread this idiotic nonsense wouldn't exist without investment in return for profit.

You are too stupid to succeed in a capitalist world and you blame the system, not yourself.