The Holocaust Debate

>>132401300
>Hundred men constrained by the laws of physics and their turn of the century equipment
>the laws of physics somehow prevent 100 men from killing two men per minute on average

Really makes you think

>>132401796
I should have been more specific there. I'm particularly intrested this bit.
>How do you explain the propaganda videos of showers saying they are gas chambers with creepy lighting that can be shown in other videos to just be showers, with glass windows, connected to hot water heaters?

>>132401949

the french and soviet governments arent reliable? court cases arent reliable?

can you please show me a reliable author then?

2,500,000

>Cited by a famous “witness to the Holocaust,” Rudolf Vrba, when he testified on July 16, 1981 for the Israeli government’s war crimes trial of former SS official Adolf Eichmann.


2,000,000

>Cited by no less than three famous Holocaust historians, including Leon Poliakov (1951) writing in “Harvest of Hate”; Georges Wellers, writing in 1973 in “The Yellow Star at the Time of Vichy”; and Lucy Dawidowicz, writing in 1975 in “The War Against the Jews.”

2,000,000 to 4,000,000

>Cited by Israeli historian Yehuda Bauer in 1982 in his book, “A History of the Holocaust.” However, by 1989 Bauer revised his figures and determined that the actual number was lower: 1,600,000.

1,600,000

>This is a 1989 revision by Israeli historian Yehuda Bauer of his earlier figure in 1982 of 2,000,000 to 4,000,000, Bauer cited this new figure on September 22, 1989 in The Jerusalem Post, at which time he wrote’ ‘The larger figures have been dismissed for years, except that it hasn’t reached the public yet.”

1,500,000

>In 1995 this was the “official” number of Auschwitz deaths announced by Polish President Lech Walesa as determined by the historians at the Auschwitz museum. This number was inscribed on the monument at the Auschwitz camp at that time, thereby “replacing” the earlier 4,000,000 figure that had been formally repudiated (and withdrawn from the monument) five years earlier in 1990. At that time, on July 17, 1990 The Washington Times reprinted a brief article from The London Daily Telegraph citing the “new” figure of 1,500,000 that had been determined by the authorities at the Auschwitz museum.

>>132402239

1,471,595

>This is a 1983 figure cited by historian Georges Wellers who (as noted previously) had determined, writing in 1973, that some 2,000,000 had died. In his later calculation, Wellers decided that of the 1,471,595 who had died at Auschwitz, 1,352,980 were Jews.

1,433,000

>This figure was cited on September 1, 1989 by the French daily, Le Monde, which earlier, on April 20, 1978, had cited the figure at 4,000,000.


1,250,000

>In 1985, historian Raul Hilberg arrived at this figure in his book, “The Destruction of the European Jews.” According to Hilberg, of those dead, some 1,000,000 were Jews.

1,100,000 to 1,500,000

>Sources for this estimate are historians Yisrael Gutman and Michael Berenbaum (later of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum) in their 1984 book, “Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp”; also Dr. Franciszek Piper, the curator of the Auschwitz Museum, writing a chapter in that book. This estimate was later also cited by Walter Reich, former director of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, writing in The Washington Post on September 8, 1998. The upper figure of 1,500,000 thus remains the “official” figure as now inscribed at Auschwitz, with the earlier figure of 4,000,000 having been removed from the memorial at the site of the former concentration camp.

1,000,000

Jean-Claude Pressac, writing in his 1989 book “Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers.” This is interesting since he wrote his book to repudiate so-called “Holocaust deniers” who were called that precisely because they had questioned the numbers of those who had died at Auschwitz.

>>132402311

900,000

>Reported on August 3, 1990 11, by Aufbau, a Jewish newspaper in New York.

800,000 to 900,000

>Reported by Gerald Reitlinger in his 1953 book, “The Final Solution.” This figure is notable, considering the fact that it reduces the Auschwitz death total from the 4,000,000 figure that was widely in vogue in 1953.

775,000 to 800,000

>Jean-Claude Pressac’s revised figure, put forth in his 1993 book, “The Crematoria of Auschwitz: The Mass Murder’s Machinery”, scaling down the figure from Pressac’s 1989 claim of 1,000,000 dead. At this juncture, Pressac said that of the new number, 630,000 were Jews.

630,000 to 710,000

>In 1994 Pressac scaled his figure down somewhat further; this is the figure cited in the German language translation of Pressac’s 1993 book originally published in French. Again, this is substantially less than Pressac’s 1989 figure of 1,000,000.

73,137

>This figure was reported in The New York Times on March 3, 1991 and was based entirely on the wartime German concentration camp records that had been captured by the Soviets and just recently released. According to this figure, of those dead, 38,031 were Jews. These records state that the total of all persons who died in the ENTIRE German prison camp system from 1935 to 1945 were 403,713. To repeat: a total of 403,713 persons of all races and religions was officially recorded to have died (of all causes. typhus, old age, measles, etc.-and execution) in the entire prison camp system over a 10 year period. Of those 403,713 a total of 73,137 died at Auschwitz. Of those 73,137 who died at Auschwitz, 38,031 were Jews.

>>132402038
>Jet fuel melts steel
Nope, but it does severely reduce it's load bearing capacity in a way that would be consistent with the collapse of the towers!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzF1KySHmUA

Lads what was that tale of minecarts tipping into ovens?

>>132402501

its in the previous thread if you bother to read it

>>132402239
>soviet governments arent reliable?
no

>the french
yet again, those quotes are out of context.

>this retard is posting more out of context quotes

Why don't you show us the actual quotes?

>>132402239
>>132402311
>>132402400
>citing books without giving the page numbers

Do they not teach you how to properly cite in Bongistan schools?

Not only can the Holocaust propaganda pushers NOT prove the Holocaust happened the way they say it happened but they also can NOT give a single reason as to why anyone should care.

Prove the Holocaust happened and why should anyone care.

>INB4 Emotional and ad hominem attacks.

>>132402548
Hilarious
>>132399193
There is one about automatic head-smashers too if I'm not mistaken?

>>132403060
>Prove the Holocaust happened
No one directly involved denied it

>and why should anyone care.
you shouldn't

>>132403060
People should care because history is important.

>>132403197
>No one directly involved denied it
Honestly out of all the evidence I've seen this is easily the most damning thing.

>>132403373
And this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRO04q_lQi4

>>132403373
It's easily one of the most baffling thing about Holocaust denial since the people involved all agree that it was a good thing to do while deniers argue for it being propaganda to paint the Nazis as evil

>>132403197
Well if you do deny it, in certain countries, like yours, you will be imprisoned
>>132403373
>>132403720
Even if it were true, why do people not freak out about the fact it is pushed so hard and other genocides are not?

>>132404428
Other genocides are pushed hard, just in other regions. The Armenian Genocide is pushed hard in the Caucasus, the Holodomor in Eastern Europe, and the Rape of Nanking in East Asia. The reason the Holocaust seems to be pushed hardest to you is because it is a European genocide, and thus pushed hard in Europe and North America, where you most likely live. Go to Beijing or Tokyo and see if anyone gives two shits about the Holocaust .

>>132403273
>history is important
No. It's interesting but not essential.

>>132401119
Just woke up.

The Holohoax never happened.

What's there to debate?

>>132404890
I hate being that guy who meme's about flags, but I find it quite ironic how it's always the French who tell me that history isn't important.

>>132404865
yea, hence it's not illegal to deny in those countries, i suppose it's the same way most media and news channels do not report the majority of stuff that happens in non western countries too, completely fucked up

also it never happened lets stop typing like it did

>>132405194
>hence it's not illegal to deny in those countries
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide_denial#Legislation
Many countries have attempted to pass such legislation, with some success. The difference is that most of those countries don't have significant denial movements within their nations, while nations such as Japan and Russia with large amounts of officially deny the genocides too, unlike the Germans who were decent enough people to stand by what they did.

>>132405178
>I hate being that guy who meme's about flags
Says the guy with a meme flag...
Well, tell me what we could not achieve without history?

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>>132401119
Your image reminds me of RaeuberPozzenfotz. Good times.

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pics or it didn't happen

>>132405194
>yea, hence it's not illegal to deny in those countries
The same legislation used to prosecute holocaust deniers is also used to prosecute other genocide deniers. It's called hate speech laws.

For example, a number of turkish expats where prosecuted for denying the Armenian genocide

>>132403197
>No one directly involved denied it
Thats your proof? A declaration that "No one" is patently false relating to any issue.

>>132403273
>People should care because history is important.
As soon as you prove it is actually history and not propaganda you might begin to have a point.

>>132403373
>Honestly out of all the evidence I've seen this is easily the most damning thing.
Super weak.

This is why these Holocaust threads have been so popular as no one on the Muh Holocaust side seems to be able to provide actual proof to something that 'Everyone agrees' or 'Everyone knows'. Just accepting what you are told seems to be the best answer any Holocaust supporter can give.

My opinion is at this rate with the weak or non-existent answer to the challenge of proving the Holocaust happened the way it was said to have happened it will be not much longer before the Holocaust is forgotten or just outright ignored. Also, the amount of people who care weather the Holocaust happened is also on the rise. So what some Jews who were warned to leave and then told to leave but did not leave got killed... they deserved the Holocaust if they did not leave when they were told to.

For those who want to keep pushing the Holocaust storyline the future is looking bleak.

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>>132407133

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>at the peak of the war
>slaughter slave labor force with exotic delousing gas
hm

>kill 6 million jews in vaterland
>there were less than 3 million in the whole of yurop
hmm

>6 million movies and political interventions and virtue signaling events regarding the horrors of the holocaust
>no one knows or cares to admit that jews created and unleashed communism around the globe
hmmm

>6 million bodies
>not one mass grave, not one tooth, not one gas chamber
hmmmm

>hey goym don't be a racist and dilute your genes with african filth
>israel can and will enforce eugenics, member muh holocaust
hmmmmm

Woah this is unexpected. Too used to one-off holocaust threads.

I assume I'll see these three kinds of people
>I don't give a fuck dude
>IT HAPPENED MAN (variable: might post stupid conspiracy shit or wikipedia)
>No that evidence isn't valid and detracts from your argument

Oy vey goyim I don't care if it's impossible it totally happened!!

>>132407664
>This is why these Holocaust threads have been so popular as no one on the Muh Holocaust side seems to be able to provide actual proof to something that 'Everyone agrees' or 'Everyone knows'. Just accepting what you are told seems to be the best answer any Holocaust supporter can give

That's ironic coming from a Holocaust denier, who's only "proof" of the Holocaust not being real is asking a bunch of hypothetical questions.

>>132407963
They were burned in open? What was the combustible?

>>132404865
>>132406045
>>132407963

Hi Aaron. I see you're still using that proxy.

>>132403720
Yes it is propaganda to denounce the Germans. That was the whole point. Do you really think the Soviets would just occupy Germany without trying to paint them as bad guys to demoralize the survivors?
Even better was they saw the Germans had prison camps, so logically you say they abused prisoners or killed them.
That simple. I've told you a hundred times over the last two years Aaron. I've told you a hundred fucking times.

Maybe you're paid to do this or something.
Even a nutcase would realize his errors by now.

>>132403060

beause jews are exceptional and their suffering is infinitely greater than that of any other ethnic group and for this reason we need to kill all white people and embrace our slavery so the noble jews can rule us.

>>132408511
Magic obviously

>>132408318
>"proof" of the Holocaust not being real i
Fuck off you have to prove the positive. It's not that dude's job to prove a negative because you can't.

>>132408002
>>132408002
>>132408002
>>132408002
>>132408002
>>132408002

>>132403572
Oh shit Aaron using your proxy to post as two people at once in the same thread?
Surprised you haven't spammed that fucking conspiracy album you made.

>>132408555
Don't know who Aaron is, and not a proxy.

>Do you really think the Soviets would just occupy Germany without trying to paint them as bad guys to demoralize the survivors?

No, that's why they published grossly exaggerated death tolls.

>Even better was they saw the Germans had prison camps, so logically you say they abused prisoners or killed them.
No, the Germans said they abused and killed prisoners. Because unlike you, they had pride in what they did.

>>132408318
Once again you can not prove it.

I am giving your AIDS infested faggot ass the room to provide me with the best proof you got that the Holocaust happened the way you say it happened.

You got nothing but rather call me a "denier" like the Holocaust is some type of religion and I deny your god.

Also, I am not asking you to provide me proof of something that is unprovable like the existence of God, the afterlife, or some theoretical question thats impossible to prove. I am simply asking you to prove to me and thus I can prove to the world that the Holocaust happened the way you say it happened with the systematic murder of 6 million Jews. That is all.

What I have gotten so far is a bunch of emotional trash tier ad hominem attacks that only go to show you got nothing in the way of proof.

My claim:
The Holocaust did NOT happen the way you say it happened but rather it is nothing more than propaganda used against the losing side of a war. Many people died in the world wars and the death of Jews are no more important or deserve anymore attention than the death of any other person. The Holocaust has become a shield used to protect anyone who pushes an agenda as a way to silence an opponent and claim victim hood just as calling anyone Hitler or a Nazi.

Prove me wrong.

>>132408002
>>132408002
>>132408002
>>132408002
>>132408002

>>132409217
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust#Jewish

Any questions?

>>132408710
>>b-but the burden of proof lies on you!!

Nice mental gymnastics, cuck. But of course, whenever someone denies evolution, they're the ones that have prove their claim, right? I mean after all, they're the ones on the side of the negative, and yet their asked to prove their claims, so why can't Holocaust deniers be given the same responsibility?

>>132408908
Is that Aaron Richards posting? He gets his ass kicked on YouTube all the time in debates. He always bitches out and runs away when he knows he's been beaten. Total pussy.

>>132409217
I don't know what to tell you then, because you constantly dismiss any and all proof given to you because it doesn't fit into your definition of "proof", or because it's "too reddit", like in the last thread. At this point, your opinion can be safely discarded.

>>132409674
Okay I'll dump the "mental gymnastics"
You're a fat overweight mulatto NEET who lives in his mom's basement and has a bad dragon dildo up his ass right now. It's up to you to deny that and prove it's NOT true.

>>132409898
Yes, everyone in this thread except for you is Aaron Richards.

>>132409586
Your best proof of the Holocaust is to link to wikipedia?

Why not link to a Holocaust museum or a CNN article while you are at it.

United States Holocaust Memorial Museum
https://www.ushmm.org/

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>>132409898
Oh yeah he's the old Portuguese tripfag National View.
I don't know how long ago but he started playing puppets using his proxy. Someone pointed out how similar his bandwagoners posted to him and I realized that answer.

>>132409004
Okay Aaron.

>The Germans said they did horrible things
Are you talking about the war tribunals?
Oooohh time to wake you the fuck up.

Avalon Project at Yale. Look it up. Full trial transcripts from Nuremberg. It's in English tho.
Your head will spin when you realize where those "confessions" came from.

>>132401119
Jason Alexander, confirmed immortal illuminati.

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You all should debate about the words Vernichtung or Ausrottung like Himmler's Posen speech. I've only been here a little bit but it'll be interesting to see what Aaron has to say about those words since we all know he's here

>>132410291
You quoted the wrong guy Aaron I'm over here :3
Just you and the Portuguese. Portuguese is 100% Aaron if it turns out you're just a Icelandic Yokel and not him.
He posts that video every time he enters a thread.
No source for the video neither which is the funniest part but that's a different matter.

>>132409898

Can I get a quick rundown on that guy?

>>132410450
Posen speech even being real is a huge debate of itself which IMO cannot be reliably resolved with the informational available to any parties.

Ausrotten can mean both kill and remove.

>>132410506
He's a guy that posts here a lot and has a YouTube channel which is just his name. You see him in every comment section of Holocaust denial videos, even those with not a ton of views. I don't know how someone can possibly have that much spare time

>>132410410
hello food?

>>132410074
Kek. Whatever, we'll just agree to disagree, and until you find proof that the Jews run the world, and that the Holocaust is ultimately a hoax, you'll never get anywhere in this same tired argument.

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>>132410506
>>132410740
Dude he used to namefag with Austrian IPs here on the board. He would spam his imgur album which is full of shrunken head and masturbation machine tier "proofs".
The worst part is he claims to believe all of it.
Personally I think he's probably just one of the Codoh dudes playing an autistic prank but it's just special.

>>132410506
He's a Zio tard who shows up on every holocaust revisionist/denial video on YouTube, trying to post "evidence" of extermination. He knows enough to trick the uninformed, but when he comes up against anyone who even remotely knows what they're talking about he cracks under the pressure and rage quits. And then he moves onto another video, and so on and so on and so on...

>>132410373
>Avalon Project at Yale. Look it up.

>Pls find my evidence for me

>>132410050
>I don't know what to tell you then
That is a real problem.

>it doesn't fit into your definition of "proof", or because it's "too reddit"
Well if you can't provide proof beyond what I have seen so far that is a real problem.

>At this point, your opinion can be safely discarded.
So disregarding an opinion that you disagree with is a weakness on your part and only gives credit to the fact that you have no answer. I suggest you do in fact disregard my opinion and see how fast others will realize the weakness in your defense and start to exploit it.

I am honestly surprised at how little effort the Holocaust supporters have been able to provide someone who is outright asking for proof. If I act like a "Nazi" their ad hominem attacks seem to be the best weapon and if I push their agenda I get to see that their agenda is about as shallow as their evidence. Just ask them to prove it and that fall apart.

>>132410871
I'm not here about some Jewish conspiracy to run the world I'm here to disprove to you a conspiracy that the Germans conspired to kill people in strange and brutal manners.

For destroying tinfoil bullshit, I never tire.

>>132411028
It's a transcript of the entire Nuremberg Trials. I'm giving you something you need to read on your own time otherwise you have no business opining about the 'confessions' or even the holocaust at all.
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/subject_menus/imt.asp

>>132411278
>Doesn't cite a single point
>lel the confessions are fake believe me

Wew

>>132402482
3rd tower then shill you fucking retard. Explain the Israelis lurk more new fag "the planes took dem towers down" fuck out of here

>>132411661
Read the transcripts
Also not really my job to provide an example that's on you my man.
Provide an excerpt and ask me to counter it.
Like civilized academics.

>>132410601
>Posen speech even being real is a huge debate
lol no. No major denier ever claims Posen speeches are fake.

>>132415987
Who cares about 'major' whatevers?
Posen speech recording is the only media on that supposed event and it's questionable whether it's an actual recording of a real speech.

It's like some conspiracy theorist saying that recording of who was it
Fucking Rothberg or whatever the man's name was
was real. Albeit it was an alleged transcript of a "can't-reveal" tape but people still use that as soild evidence that kike's involved with some "lerminaty" shit.
Same thing with the Posen speech except it's a tape and not a transcript.

>>132416338
If deniers who actually know a little bit about what they are talking about don't think Posen speeches are fake, then why the fuck should i even entertain your assertion that they are fake?

Prove that they are fake?

>some mumbo jumbo hypothetical shit

There are transcripts of the Posen Speeches.

>>132416769
Typical Aaron

>There are transcripts of the Posen Speeches.

You're too autistic to disregard unimportant features of texts
Fucking brainlet.

What I'm saying is the tape is the only proof of the speech's contents. That's really about it.
It's questionable whether that is Himmler.

>>132417102
So do you have any proof that Posen speeches are fake other then your word?

>>132411661
You haven't read the transcripts and you're citing them as evidence. Fucking wew on you lad.