>public healthcare doesn't wo-

only libertarian jew puppets will argue against you anon

australia took the healthcare redpill

>>132336209
The fact is pharma and insurance companies have a stranglehold on American health care and you would have to remove billions from the economy to change that. And (((they))) wont allow that.

>>132336209
>>132336261
>>132336287
>>132336570
Yep that's right nationalized healthcare is better than government provided subsidies and health insurance.
But try telling that to some people and they won't accept it. Because they are brainwashed into believing that nationalized healthcare is more government interference and therefor must be more expensive and inefficient.

I have Bupa and it's a life saver. I had to get surgery done and it was fantastic not sitting in a shitty, dirty NHS hospital surrounded by pakis.

The NHS is wonderful that is gives poor and working class people access to decent healthcare but I make a decent living and can afford private through work so I do it.

>>132336209
it doesn't
single-payer healthcare is a monopolistic ponzi scheme

>>132336209
But anon, public healthcare is communism! Communism killed 100 billion trillion people!

explain canada

>>132336994
Everyone know we only ironically hate communism here. In actualility, communism is the only ethical way of operating a society. Needs>Wants. It's really that simple.

>>132336209
>Sweden
>Poor scores on quality, safety, coordination
>Poor timeliness score
>Given a high grade because everyone's healthcare is equally shit
top fucking kek

No country in the world has a free market healthcare system. The American system is strangled by dumb regulation, government subsidies, Obamacare, medicare and so on. Not to mention Obamacare and the new proposed bill have a clause that prevents insurance companies from hiking prices to people who have preexisting conditions (a.k.a. people who are already sick when they want insurance). Since the punishment for not buying insurance is fairly low fewer healthy people buy insurance and only when they become sick they decide to buy which drives up the costs since fewer healthy people are paying and more sick people need the insurance money.

>>132337194
Nice strawman.

>>132336761
>must be more expensive and inefficient
you're medical system lacks most of the technological advances that we enjoy here in the US. Our system was working fine until Amerifags decided to emulate the European model and fucked it all up. We need to get the costs of health care down, waiting around several months for a MRI isn't a good thing. Perhaps one day you faggots will discover dentistry.

>>132337489
>you're medical system lacks most of the technological advances that we enjoy here in the US
Like what?

>>132337689
it's more about getting timely access to top-notch doctors, diagnostics and treatment for non-emergency condition
it's also a matter of differentiating between customers and users; the former are always treated better than the latter

>>132337131
>Needs>Wants
Define needs and wants
Why should I care about you?

The NHS is fucking brilliant really, and consider that we spend 8% of GDP on it, whilst for example in the US 16% of GDP is spent on healthcare, so as well as the taxation you are then expected to pay corporations for insurance like a good little consumer.

I've heard the NHS can get a bit crowded and all that in big cities, but where I am in the regions, I've never had an issue with waiting times, either for surgery or appointments or whatever.

>>132337689
>The United States remains the undisputed leader in biopharmaceutical research

>US produced more than half of the world’s new medicines over the last decade.

>Cutting edge cancer treatments
Just a couple, feel free to google.

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>>132337983
>Cutting edge cancer treatments
That nobody can afford

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>>132336209

Add a column for percentage of non-whites in the population and see what happens.

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>>132336209
>NHS
>efficiency #1
>quality #1
>timeliness of care only #1
Fucking hell, what does the rest of the world do if our shitty thing is #1 in most categories? Schedule a check-up in two years with a witch doctor?

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>>132337983

Well it's good that your pharma corps are making profit mate, I'm glad you're rooting for them.

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>>132336209
Public healthcare is a joke in UK and Ireland. Even I know that.

>>132337489
u do realise than we can still have non-public healthcare in EU right? there are plenty of private hospitals/clinics where you don't have to wait months for an MRI

Cost of Lasic is going down. Why is that? No government involvement. That's the problem with healthcare in the US. Get rid of Obamacare, Medicare, Medicaid and stop the AMA from controlling the amount of doctors there are. All of these are not free market and that's what is putting the cost up. Capitalism works, you fucking heathen.

>>132338201
Did you really have to post this racist cartoon?

>>132336209
>Overall ranking: 1
>Actually keeping people alive: 10

>>132337268
>an actual decent post
>ignored
You guys are all scum, especially the Americans. What the fuck happened to you?

>>132338340
difference is that you pay 100% while still paying into the mandatory ponzi monopoly
it would be fair if the free market would discover the price of healthcare insurance and offer different levels of coverage according to customers' demands

>>132337983
We have access to the same drugs as you do though.

>>132336209

There is no way the NHS is the best healthcare in the world.

>>132338522
poor diets lad

It doesn't.

>>132336209
We have the best healthcare in the world. People come from every continent to use our medical facilities.

We also have a lot of fat poor rural and urban folks who never see doctors until they're in an emergency situation. Just wait till your population is 40% obese beaners and nogs. Then you'll see some terrible healthcare outcomes too.

german healthcare is shit ........ you don't want this crap. lived in belgium for a couple of years, now THAT was good and affordable.

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>>132336209
>Go to doctor's
>They say I need minor surgery
>2 month waiting list just to see someone at the hospital
>Another 2 months until actual surgery
>Surgery day told to come in at 7am
>They tell me my surgery is at 10am and have to sit around for 3 hours
>Didn't actually go into surgery until 12:30pm
>The best

>>132337489
uninsured people drive up costs, plus jew pharma / hospital companies.

If we are not to create a nationalized healthcare system, we have to force healthy people to buy health insurance to drive down the cost of it. There's a reason the Republicucks haven't figured out a half way decent bill in 7-8 years, because Obamacare is really the best thing we can come up with other than nationalized healthcare that addresses our major healthcare problems.

>>132336864
The NHS itself helps subsidise private healthcare in this country. If we didn't have universal healthcare then the costs would shoot up.

>>132338587
If he has access to the said drugs that is. Access and availability are two different things.

Health care is available around the world, but in some places only those who can afford it can actually access it.

>>132338093
I can. Just don't be a poor idiot.

>>132336209
How will public healthcare make Americans stop being obese piles of lard?

>>132338745
>We have the best healthcare in the world. People come from every continent to use our medical facilities.
lol
Did you read the fucking graph?
Also, people come from all over the world to get treatment in Britain and continental Europe as well. The American propaganda system just ignores that.

>>132336994
>>132337131
You must be 18+ to post here kiddos

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lets watch and see

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>>132338142
This was before the Tories started purposely underfunding the NHS to prepare for privatisation.

>>132336761
>brainwashed into believing that nationalized healthcare is more government interference and therefor must be more expensive and inefficient
It is. That's how government rolls. The system the Americans have now is shit but complete free market is better than a national service. Can't believe you're calling people standing up for capitalistic principle brainwashed. Get fucked, you faggot cuck.

>>132338970
Whaat's the connection between immigration and healthcare?

>>132336209
it doesn't, your healtchare will get flooded by niggers and genelets crashing it, plus the incompetence of affirmitive action "doctors"

please trust a swede for once you dumb fuck

>>132338568
Even if everyone paid for public healthcare and private healthcare insurance on top (like Bupa) we'd still be spending less than the US.

>>132336209
this is not about effectiveness you socialist fag

if you want to be a fucking ant - be a fucking ant alone

>>132338522

There's only so much you can do to stop people smoking, drinking and subsisting on pork pies, kebabs and crisps before you turn into food fascists, we're already trying to tax alcohol and sugary drinks into oblivion. I think preventative healthcare measures would go some way in addressing this such as regular nurse visits to at-risk people to monitor weight, activity etc. and provide health advice in at-risk individuals.

>>132336209
Not if we keep importing shitskins that pay nothing but claim everything.

>>132339129
Your healthcare won't get crashed if you actually protected your country.

>private healthcare
die because you cant afford medical treatment
>public healthcare
die in the waiting room

>>132338745
>who never see doctors until they're in an emergency situation.


Do you know why this happens? Because they can't afford preventative care

Also our medical treatment is far from the best. People have been known to go to mexico for their surgeries, just because it's $10,000 and not $100,000.

Big pharma has utterly fucked this country with their lobbying, they created a healthcare utopia for themselves, ensuring massive profits.

>>132339199
Then don't import shitskins in the country?

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>>132338630

It was before the Tories started to dismantle it for their mates in the private health industries.

But in the US I won't die on a trolley after being left in a hallway for 48 hours because the doctor was busying deliverling abduls 4th wives 8th child, and aborting the kids of 9 slags.

>>132339047
free market healthcare is bad and will never work.

When we shop for healthcare, we do not use capitalistic / free market principles when we do. Do you shop for bargain healthcare or the best healthcare you can find? There's no such thing as bargain healthcare. The free market model simply does not work in healthcare.

>>132336209

Don't forget that we only 60% white, lel. Non-whites are a burden that makes social programs very costly, they are less healthy in general and take more in government programs than they pay in taxes.

I support a single payer system with price controls but it really sucks trying to do it in a non-white country. There is no free-market solution, no matter what people say. Well, unless we do away with all regulation and let people treat themselves or go into medicine with little training.

>>132338840
Government should not mandate people to buy any product or service. Most people do not buy insurance, they get insurance through their employer. Most employed Americans (not wagecuck minimum wage faggots) have health benefits. Uninsured Americans do not increase the costs of insurance. They do however increase costs of the health industry because the US government does pay for healthcare for people. Any faggot that claims the US should have socialized healthcare should look at the federal budget. Over 1/3rd of the federal expenditure goes to healthcare.

All Obongocare did was force insurers to take risky customers, compel people who do not want insurance or do not care to buy insurance, and mandate hours employees must work before they get insurance through their employer (this led to a lot of people getting their hours cut to 1hr under the legal minimum because they couldn't afford it). Obamacare is already failing and needing a bailout and it hasn't even been implemented for a decade. They can't even run the fucking website correctly and you expect their healthcare to be flawless. Funny, our veterans get government healthcare in government hospitals and it's the worst in the nation (still probably better than Eurocuck care though).

>>132338534
>unironically thinks people will respond to reasonable posts

>>132337489
Except all that lovely technology is inaccessible to the vast majority of Americans, so essentially it pointless. Whats the point of having a healthcare system which doesn't actually provide healthcare for the majority of its citizens. Stupid burgers

>>132339033

They were shit in the early 90s and since then.

>>132336209
>Netherlands
>single payer healthcare

>>132339411
What's your argument? You can't shop around while you're having a heart-attack? You shop around at the insurance part, not the "God, is that you?" part.

>>132338097
This. Only thing incorrect about that image is the presumption that fried meat is the culprit. Americans nogs are mega obese because they only drink grape drink and consume literally 300 g of High Fructose Corn Syrup a day.

>>132336209
the problem is not enough doctors. that's never going to change in the us because the institutions have no interest in pumping out more doctors. the only hope is if enterprising people start new medical schools and start pumping out more doctors and nurses on a separate track... complain all you want but this is the american way. nothing changes unless a business person takes the initiative and then later on down the road the government says ok and gives them their blessing.

>>132339427
"But in new research—based on decades of previously confidential data—Kellogg School assistant professor of strategy Craig Garthwaite and his coauthors find that when the population of uninsured Americans increases, hospitals end up bearing the cost by providing uncompensated care. In fact, their results suggest that each additional uninsured person costs local hospitals $900 per year."

https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/article/who-bears-the-cost-of-the-uninsured-nonprofit-hospitals


You know absolutely zero, nothing about healthcare and health insurance and what drives costs.

>>132338568
pay 100% into non-profit monopoly
pay what you can afford into non-profit monopoly
why would you defend the jews here?

>>132339417
yeah this is retarded. none of this magic caring society shit is going to happen when you let in 40 million illegals. if america was still a white country it could happen but not now.

>>132339542
the US has no shortage of doctors
what are you talking about?

>Canada have Public Healthcare
>And it's a piece of shit
KeK

>>132339606
>the US has no shortage of doctors
oh you

>>132338190
We have a large population of injuns and Africans. There is no way to elevate these people to First world standards of living without bankrupting the global economy. Don't worry, you guys will learn that in 50 years.

>>132339532
Think a little bit more what you said.

using your analogy, I'm not going to get heart attack insurance because I'm healthy and don't need it.... until I get that heart attack.

Bargain shopping for healthcare does not work.

>>132339177
>>132338678
Is the typical British lifestyle really that much worse than the other countries that you can go from 1st in care quality to second last in healthy lives? I don't buy it

>>132339659
yeah, this. people accept gravity as a reality but never accept that different civilizations are that way because of the people. the 3rd world should be left to do its thing as nature intended.

>>132339093
You need taxpayers for public healthcare to work. Migrants / invaders are on welfare

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mfw everyone around me is cucked.

>>132339661
then you die because you're cheap or don't die and go to debtor prison. that's how it would work in a fair system. but ins co has no interest in that they'd rather take the tax money from everyone else to bail you out.

>>132339602
>non-profit monopoly
yes, the cartel of suppliers, bloat of public insurer and the exhuberant expenses by the public infrastructure and healthcare "workers" is totally non-profit

I want to see free market competition among insurance companies devoid of any state budget subsidies

>>132336209
Oi Canada!

What's your excuse you commie homo niggers?

>>132336209
>>132336261
Countries full of savage "minorities" doesnt work

You will soon realize that when you have 50-100 million of them in your own country

>>132339794
and then you take insurance that covers a whole range of shit that takes $2000 a month out of your pocket.

Your model results in a population that is much sicker and much poorer and health insurance that costs more for less care. Your model does not create growth or sustainability.

>>132336209
It doesn't, public healthcare is fucking corrupt. I'm getting the wrong diagnosis to make the stats look better, disability status and NEETbux against my will without treating any of my mental issues

You can't open a medical school without the AMA's say-so. This controls the amount of doctors on the market. This means doctors' salaries go up but also all the other costs go up too (e.g the cost of an MRI scan) because patients are bidding over doctors time.

All this shit is out there but of course it's not going to be mainstream about how the government fucked you.

>>132339661
I don't know what you're saying. Why does what I was saying mean you wouldn't buy health insurance. And you would get health insurance if you were healthy. Extremely cheap healthcare too, because you're not that much at risk.

>>132336209
> NHS number one
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

No

NHS system is a vague copy of the French one with longer waiting time

>>132339988
For every medical problem your insurance covers, you pay more money.

The larger the insurance pool the lower the cost. So if very few people are taking heart attack insurance, the cost of it is going to be high whether or not you're healthy and in good shape, but there's a fallacy here that you're not getting. Most people aren't healthy and most people aren't in good shape, so our health insurance prices reflect that.

From the actual link
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror

>The U.S. and U.K. had much higher death rates in 2007 from conditions amenable to medical care than some of the other countries, e.g., rates 25 percent to 50 percent higher than Australia and Sweden.
And yet the UK is still the "best". This study is crap

>>132339922
dude what the fuck are you trying to say?

a private health insurance market means everyone buys what they want to cover. it's very simple.

>>132339988
>You can't open a medical school without the AMA's say-so. This controls the amount of doctors on the market.
this. the us health industry is operating under the same principles as 100 years ago. it's all the same old schools and people even go to the caribbean to get a degree. it's a fraud.

>>132340147
is that a result of a bad healthcare system or the result of a very sick population that have problems that won't respond to medical care?

It's quite hard to figure out what these numbers mean without any context.

>>132340109
>insurance pool
Who's talking about that?

>>132336209
oh man, our healthcare sucks

>>132337983
Thanks for paying for our healthcare advancements burger bro's, shame you can't afford to use them.

>>132340109
the cost is based on your odds of needing the service not the number of people in the pool. sure it helps to have a large pool but that is only for finance reasons. most of insurance companies margin is from leveraging their resources in financials, wholly unrelated from healthcare. but that's not what you're talking about.

>>132338745
>We have the best healthcare in the world
No. Healthcare system is about how you pay for getting treatments. You can have the best doctors in the world, it's fucking useless if nobody can afford them.

It's like saying: Hey Saudi Arabia is a rich country because there's 100 billonars and 80 millions of starving slaves.

>>132336209
Wait until you have too many old people and not enough young people. You are in the early phase of a ponzi scheme where it looks great to draw in new suckers.

>equity
Infographic disregarded. Please use real measures

>>132340207
>>132340207
>a private health insurance market means everyone buys what they want to cover. it's very simple.


I don't understand how you don't see the glaring problem with this.

If 10 people out of 1000 take heart attack insurance, the price they pay is going to be more than if 1000 out of 1000 people take it. The thing with healthcare is that you don't need it until you need it. These are basic economic principles that you are either not understanding or willfully ignorant about.

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>>132339264
You sound like a retarded liberal college freshmen.
There is no evidence of preventative care actually working for these types of people.
Doctors can tell patients to lose weight every day of their lives and tell them exactly how to do it and they still won't because these people are low IQ, low agency subhumans with no impulse control. Everyone knows smoking is bad, everyone knows drinking is bad, everyone knows obesity is bad, but people still drink excessively, smoke multiple packs of cigarettes a day and balloon up like landwhales on a diet of Cheetos and Coca Cola.
I know people who work in the medical field. Actual doctors who work in actual hospitals. The healthcare system is being crippled by these ultra obese retards(including the bottom 20% of whites) that are in and out of the hospital every month because one organ system or another is crashing. If we rounded up all the fats and put them in Europe they'd crash "muh perfect enlightened socialist health care system" too.
Our healthcare outcomes suck because we are really really unhealthy. You've clearly never met these fat, poor, stupid people I'm talking about because the second you did you'd understand that these people can't be helped.
The only exist to drag everyone else down.

>>132340345
haha truth. it's so bad here and so many think obamacare provided healthcare to the masses. poor people go to horrible clinics with long waits and really bad doctors. you will never ever have your ailment treated because they won't run tests unless for a very specific few things that are in the book.

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>>132336209
> UK has 3% Black population
> US has 14% Black population

/effectiveness of healthcare are invalid.

main reasons health care is so goddamned expensive is that NIGGERS have no fucking clue how to engage in preventative health care.

> US health care fag in IT for the last 15 years
> Niggers call 911 complaining of 'chest pains' get free ambo ride across town to ER. Watch TV in ER then bail before treatment. Hospital eats bill
> Nigger goes to ER for flu, UTI, sore throat. Hospital eats bill.
> Niggers hang out in ERs watching TV and scamming for pain killers

>>132336209
>>132336261
>commonwealthfund
We've got the best health insurance, guise! You can trust us because we made the infographs!

>>132337983
This can't happen in the UK. We don't have enough money to fund the research.

>but muh free healthcare

>>132338840
retarded communist

>>132340413
No it's relevant. If the guy using basic healthcare coverage gets a shitty room while the mayor gets the super luxuary room despite paying the same fee, there's a problem.

>>132338887
4chan gave you cancer aswell, huh?

>>132340509
>> Niggers hang out in ERs watching TV and scamming for pain killers

Holy shit I wish you were joking. They have no dignity, they don't care who they are around they will cuss and scream and put on a show like children throwing a tantrum.

>>132340462
>If 10 people out of 1000 take heart attack insurance, the price they pay is going to be more than if 1000 out of 1000 people take it.
that's not how premiums are calculated. the premium is calculated on your odds of an individual having to use the money. it has nothing to do with the pool.

life insurance works the same way... it's calculated so the company collects a little more than they would have to pay out based on average expectancies. again this is all per individual.

>>132340466
kek, way to over represent a minority in order to back up your fallacious claim.

Preventative care is the difference between a $200 dental cleaning bill and a $2500 dental surgery bill

It's the difference between a $40 month diabetes medicine and a $10,000 emergency room visit when you don't treat it and you go into shock.

You're using an extreme outlier to prove your point which is intellectually dishonest, that is something a retarded liberal college freshman would do.

>>132340466
>Doctors can tell patients to lose weight every day of their lives and tell them exactly how to do it and they still won't because these people are low IQ, low agency subhumans with no impulse control. Everyone knows smoking is bad, everyone knows drinking is bad, everyone knows obesity is bad, but people still drink excessively, smoke multiple packs of cigarettes a day and balloon up like landwhales on a diet of Cheetos and Coca Cola.
Because they can. Everyone needs to be covered these days which means there's no check against being unhealthy. Before if you were a fat pig, your premiums would be through the roof. They are right when they say it's America and they can do what they want. But they also have to pay the consequence. I won't blame them though: i'll blame the system that fosters immorality.

>>132336209
Biggest, least homogenous country has worst healthcare, who would've known

>>132340261
The bit I quoted specifically mentions conditions that are "amenable to medical care".

>>132340684
That is exactly how premiums are calculated. It's all about risk.

If you are someone who is shopping for heart attack insurance, chances are you are probably at risk for a heart attack. Now when someone who is not at risk for a heart attack joins the pool, heart attack premiums go down.

http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2016/03/15/dont-let-the-talking-points-fool-you-its-all-about-the-risk-pool/

>>132340684
here i'll think of a hypothetical.

you get insurance on your balls. if you get an injury to your balls the insurance company says it will cost 1,000 dollars to fix. hmm then they look at the percentages (this is called an actuarial calculation) and say well, there's only a 10% chance of actual ball injury, so we need to collect 10%of 1,000 so we need 100 dollars to cover this. then they amortize that 100 dollars over 12 months or whatever, so you're paying 9 dollars a month or so to cover your ball insurance. the insurance company also takes a few extra percentage points to cover their overhead and everything for profit.

the only way a bigger pool helps is the insurance company can negotioate lower fees with hospitals if they have a bigger pool - this is an issue of scale.

>>132340096

Why are the French always so bitter, jealous and petty?

>>132340897
>Now when someone who is not at risk for a heart attack joins the pool, heart attack premiums go down
actually, no. a younger person will pay less, and a more at risk person will pay more. they have different odds of needing to collect, so they pay more. it's not right to force healthy people to pay for unhealthy, which is why everyone said obamacare was a wealth transfer which it was. before that premiums were based on risk...

this is accomplished by market forces, since no healthy person in their right mind would pay what a 90 year old pays in health insurance.

ITT:
Americunts who think that healthcare isn't a basic human right and should be commercialised.

>>132338825
>Another 2 months until actual surgery
uh...this is exactly how it is in the US.

>>132340962
There's a reason why your taxes for medicare / medicaid are low and employer insurance is low.

Because the pools are very large. The larger the pool, the more mitigated the risk is.

What I really look for about Public Healhcare can be summerize in one question:

Does this hospital wants to cure me or to make money ?

Hospital should NOT be manage like a business. It's a public service, it should be about quality and not rentability. You will say an hospital will make money only if the work is good but it's not that simple. There's many medical procedures that can't possibly be a good financial operation for hospitals or the real costs would be so high nobody would ever afford it.

A public hospital would keep doing it anyway
An hospital run like a business would stop doing it.

Like maternity. Giving birth in an hospital costs actually a lot since the mother tends to use a room for several days and complications often happens, mobilizing a large personnel and expensive equiments. You can't make the mothers pay all this because too many would choose to give birth at home, which would have horrific consequences.

Public authorities have to force hospitals to keep a wing for maternities and if every hospitals were about making money, it would be extremely hard to find a place to give birth.

>>132341167
this is a pithy and ignorant response. there are degrees of healthcare.

>>132341129
Because you keep stealing things from us and claiming it's yours.

Like the three words you used: Bitter, Jealous and Petty.

>>132341158
Read what I posted.

http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2016/03/15/dont-let-the-talking-points-fool-you-its-all-about-the-risk-pool/

> be Canadian
> have to wait months upon months to see a specialist
> none of the administrators care or know whats going on
> after waiting 6 months for appointment sit in waitingroom for 5 hours with 100 brown people
> had to take whole day off work for 9 am appointment
> get in to see specialist, its some brown lady who doesnt remember you from the lat visit
>'hmmmm come back in six months'
> 'But you didnt do anything!'
> make followup appointment on way out

Nothing says quality healthcare like making it feel more like the DMV

>>132341167
Stuff isn't a right, idiot. If you have a right to healthcare, you have a right to make people become doctors and work to provide it for you. Which, obviously, you don't. You sound like a dumb faggot who doesn't know how the world works.

>>132341212
wrong. premiums are based on what is covered and the risk of actually needing a pay out. you need to understand that premiums are calculated based on risk.

>>132336209

This ranking is bullshit.
>timeliness of care
>UK
>3

Kek no, the rosbeefs come here en masse for things like hip surgery because the NHS make them wait for 2 years.


>commowealthfund
Nice source

>>132341293
you don't fucking understand insurance. all that article is saying is its great having a bigger pool because healthy people will never collect.

it's a complete deformation of what insurance is. of course it's good to have a big pool when everyone is forced to buy insurance. you could mandate everyone buy home insurance even people who don't have a home and then take the money and do whatever you want with it. that's how obamacare works. there is no savings, just redistribution because healthy people are paying for the poor and sick.

>>132341187
If you live in a major city then yes. I live in a medium sized city in the south. Got my procedure done the week I saw my doctor.

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>>132341217
>Hospital should NOT be manage like a business.
how do services remain competitive?

Like it or not the ARRA ushered in sweeping change in health care treatment outcomes. It is driving ALL care towards the EU standardization of care, very much like ASCE car mechanics are, so that each diagnosis has a very specific treatment pathway (cost). Meaning; if I come in with chest pains and gas, Medicare is going to only pay for 1 day inpatient stay. If I have to stay 2-3 days, the hospital is eating those charges.

Every few years Medicare/Medicaid reimbursement for treatment gets lower and lower. It is dependent on how well the hospital prevented a re-admission and had the highest quality of care (shortest stay).

The larger the hospital network, the more these charges can be defrayed within its market share. If you just have a hospital that serves your 10 square miles, how do you expect to bring in any talent (not just physicians) or develop new ones?

>>132341377
No.

Minimum benefit and cost-sharing standards increase the share of total health expenditures that are financed through premiums, spreading health care costs more broadly and reducing the financial exposure for those with greater health care needs. Limiting variance in premiums due to the individual characteristics of the insured (modified community rating) increases pooling substantially compared to unregulated markets featuring different premiums for purchasers based upon their health status, health history, gender, and industry of employment, as well as much broader premium variation by age and other factors. Modified community rating is also critical to ensuring the effectiveness of guaranteed issue and guaranteed renewal; otherwise, insurers could charge unhealthy enrollees much higher premiums than their healthy counterparts, counteracting the intended effects of those rules.

By requiring all or most individuals to enroll in health insurance coverage, individual mandates increase the number of healthy and sick individuals in insurance pools by providing incentives for them to enroll in and retain insurance; such mandates have the largest behavioral effect on those with lower health care costs who would be less likely to enroll otherwise. The more people subject to the mandate and the stronger the enforcement mechanisms, the greater its effect in spreading health care risk. Importantly, without the individual mandate, the other consumer protections (rating rules, guaranteed issue, benefit standards, etc.) would allow individuals to remain uninsured until a health problem arose, leading to a costly and unstable insurance pool.

>>132341287
Jealous, bitter, petty and Ill informed.

Our country, and other anglo countries except shitty Canada, tend to use the Beveridge model. Your country uses the Bismarck model which you copied from the krauts you love to rim.

In France, where I live (except emergency of course):
> Generalist: same day or one day
> Dentist: 1-2 days, week at most
> Ophtalmologist: 1 to 3 months (fucking assholes)
> Gastrologist: 2 weeks - 1 month
> Gynecologist: a week
> Pediatry: same-day since EVERYTHING IS URGENT
> Cardiology: 2 weeks
> Oncologist (cancer man): 1-2 months

>>132341650
The NHS is a carbon copy of the securité sociale, just admit it

>>132341620
>By requiring all or most individuals to enroll in health insurance coverage, individual mandates increase the number of healthy and sick individuals in insurance pools by providing incentives for them to enroll in and retain insurance; such mandates have the largest behavioral effect on those with lower health care costs who would be less likely to enroll otherwise. The more people subject to the mandate and the stronger the enforcement mechanisms, the greater its effect in spreading health care risk. Importantly, without the individual mandate, the other consumer protections (rating rules, guaranteed issue, benefit standards, etc.) would allow individuals to remain uninsured until a health problem arose, leading to a costly and unstable insurance pool.
you're not actually saving money. all you're doing is making people buy something they don't need, in other words a tax. this is such a load of shit. the pool is nice and big and fat because you're taking money from people for things they will never in return use.

in other words this is not insurance. insurance must be entirely voluntary or it is simply not insurance it is a tax.

and no people don't take better care of themselves in this system. it would be nice if 'incentives' worked but they would have to be actual real measures like taking people's property if they are overweight, but people are already on welfare you have nothing to hold over them.

>>132341650
Also it's bullshit, in the Bismarck models there's private hospital. You clearly don't know the french system

>>132341217

Poorfag retard.

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>>132341543
> Got my procedure done the week I saw my doctor.
Specialists in US aren't sitting around on their hands. Most are booked for months primarily because they have limited hours

Ortho appointment maybe
Ortho surgery, no.
Urology probably not
ENT specialist easily 3 month out
Even psychiatry has +3 month wait list

Your mid sized city in the south probably has you seeing a generalist/veterinarian

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>>132341720
>frog gets upset about waiting 3 months tops
Try 3 years. For a diagnosis.

>>132341837
If we are to have a stable healthcare system / health insurance system, healthy people HAVE to buy insurance. At any random point in your life you will need healthcare, this is a statistical fact.

This is what you're not getting. Also, good job pivoting from the argument about insurance pools to muh taxation is theft meme.

>>132341217
>There's many medical procedures that can't possibly be a good financial operation for hospitals or the real costs would be so high nobody would ever afford it.
Can't possibly? Sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about. Might as well just say air travel can't possibly be affordable because planes are big and look how far they go and isn't flying amazing.

>>132342011
>Got my bowels resected
>Veterinarian
>Not a colorectal surgeon

You're doing something wrong then.

>>132341587
But they don't have to... every hospitals being public, they have to make sure all medical care is correctly done compared to regulations.

They don't have to be "competitive", hospitals are not researchers, they only apply the current medical knowledge and they modernize when the public system give them funds to do so.

>>132336209
I can tell you this, swedish health care is a complete failure. I just tried to contact the hospital for booking a doctors appointment. I call the hospital and press my way through their caller system so I can book a time. What I am greeted with is a message that said "Our phone times for today is over, please try again tomorrrow". This have also happened several times before and not only for me as well. I want private health care.

>>132342200
Stop calling at 2AM

>>132340620
>>132340620
Years of alcoholism and drug abuse actually.

>>132336209
Yes, and look at what all those gibs has done to your country. It's like you're talking about how many ants are at your picnic, and bragging that your food draws in more.

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>>132342161
>public system give them funds to do so

except that's not how it works in the US.
I agree the socialized health care is the correct thing to do. However, you must not be familiar with the MASSIVE Medicare/Medicaid fraud that occurs in the US. Not to mention our nigger problem, where every nigger family is on Medicaid.

Medicare/Medicaid does NOT reimburse 100% of charges. Only a portion. Its moving towards a 50% coverage of costs in the very near future. Meaning these hospitals have no way of covering costs for these patients.

When Medicare / Medicaid WAS covering the majority of costs, every provider/patient was exposing the least possible pathway to overbill and make a killing. It lead to billion dollar industry of RAC (Medicare reimbursement specialists) who did nothing but audit charging/billing care

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>>132342125
eat more fiber, nigga

>>132342517
Your problem is simple, a public system is backing up for profits hospitals. Of course they're gonna abuse it without hard regulations.

>>132336209
It doesn't work if your country is full of subhumans.

>>132336209
>>132336261
So you are saying that Obamacare is also objectively a failure.

>>132342569
I know fiber will definitely solve Crohn's disease.

>>132343006
>Crohn's disease
Godspeed anon.

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>>132343006
Crohn's disease

we're supposed to care because you have defective nigger genetics? Quit eating bread

>>132343282
Well hey you brought it up.

>>132336209
our healthcare system is such a mess. Even this most recent "fix" to obamacare does absolutely nothing. unless you are going to attempt to make the system way more free market based, , just go full one payer honestly. as much as i hate it, it's way better than the shit we currently have

>>132336209
-rk in diverse countries.

Single payer fags don't get that it would require massive tax increase on the middle class and upper middle class. Either that or they don't care. You wouldn't be able to pay for it just by taxing the 1% more.

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>>132336209
So glad we elected a retarded orange meme man child who's gonna give insurance companies a blow job over Sanders who would have given us single payer.

>>132343833
>Single payer fags don't get that it would require massive tax increase on the middle class and upper middle class.

HEY faggot! You already pay that to insurance companies you dumb fuck.

>>132344600
>gonna give insurance companies a blow job

Nope, that was obama care making it illegal to be uninsured

>who would have given us single payer
So you think the VA is the best health care model?

>>132336209
Canada's per capita numbers are on par with the US. Even our own propaganda machines report 12k CAD per capita per annum versus a US 10k per annum.

Canada is just as inefficient as the US, but more people have access. The system gets abused and cucks think they have "free healthcare". It's compete bullshit.

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>>132343640
>underfunding the NHS

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>>132344600
>give insurance companies a blow job
dis nigga wasn't paying attention in 2008

>>132344862
>Linking the wrong post

Meant for
>>132339033

>>132336209
yours certainly doesn't

https://youtu.be/_wg6_hqu2Ck

>>132336209
>every single one of those countries was 90-99% white ten years ago except the US
>wonder why their socialist systems work

idiot

>>132336209
Come to an hospital here : full of nigs who come because they have a little cut and want free care, they beat/spit on doctors and nurses everyday. Hospitals are a fucking jungle now. If you go there for an emergency, good luck because you could die waiting that the nigs' scratches are being take care of. Public healthcare is a failure.
Also nigs are raiding hospitals rooms at night to rob helpless hospitalized people. When my father went at the hospital i was fucking scared for him.

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>>132347079
>If you go there for an emergency, good luck because you could die waiting that the nigs' scratches are being take care of.
Did the french forget how to triage?

>>132347393
There is so much "people" waiting that very often someone with a serious condition die at the hospital like this guy : http://www.20minutes.fr/societe/2024483-20170303-perpignan-homme-retrouve-mort-salle-attente-urgences-hopital

>>132336209

sure it works for non expensive disease whose recovery was made in-expensive by the free market like common cold

when you get an expensive one like cancer or the thing that baby had, then you just die, because you're too expensive.

tl;dr get cancer an die because of your "universal healthcare" (btw google UK's cancer survival rates and US)

oh btw, remind me again, what significant medical achievements did any of your socialized systems invent? no, new ways to file paperwork is not an achievement.

you people just deserve a bullet to your head, your ideologies are literally killing people. no point in arguing with you.

>>132350060
also remember than eurocuck flags including UK are literally worse than leafs

2 tiered is best, basic public healthcare for everyone alongside private hospitals if you want premium care

>>132340770
It's not an extreme outlier 35% of the country is obese and 6.3% of the US is morbidly obese.
The 20% of the most unhealthy people create 80% of healthcare expenditures. Most of the ridiculous medical bills come from these mega fat fucks who are in and out of the hospital 10 times a year for a decade before they die of kidney failure at 62.
Preventative care doesn't work. These people aren't skipping out on dentist visits because they can't afford it, they skip out on it because they're retards who don't know what's best for themselves and don't think ahead.

>>132337983
>The United States remains the undisputed leader in biopharmaceutical research

Most of that is government funded via university systems and would not go away under a single payer system.

>>132352895
The biggest reason we spend so much on healthcare is because we do all the innovation for the rest of the world. Europe gets to piggyback off our cures and treatments and Pharma companies milk the US taxpayer to recoup the R&D costs while giving Europoors better rates because they want access to those markets.

>>132353165
Not a response to my post but OK