were the Nazis left wing?

No. The Right/left dichotomy does not apply to Fascism and each side calls it the other for propaganda purposes.

It is literally "the third position". .

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>>132292328
no.

>>132292507
what a stupid helmet

>>132292328

Socially, yes.

Anything that has an authoritarian state is left wing. Doesn't matter how it enforces and what, it's still authoritarian.

Right is less state and regulations.

Nationalism itself isn't left or right wing.

literally radical centrism

Fascism is the radical center, in several ways.

One of which being that unlike the radical left which concerns itself with the working class, and the radical right (in a reactionary and classical sense) which concerns itself with the aristocracy and the established capital, fascism is the radical ideology of the middle class.

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>>132292620
you're not wrong lul

>>132292793
Correct.
I also find it funny that the LARPer flags can't seem to understand this.

>>132292854
In general, but in comparison to US politics, natsoc is left of democraps.

>>132292793

This is retardedly wrong.

Left/right is not about more or less government. It's about social change vs preservation of social structure.

>>132293266
>Left/right is not about more or less government. It's about social change vs preservation of social structure.
>reddit spacing
Someone drank the commie koolaid.

>>132293266

You're wrong, anon.

Left is always more government; socialism is far left
Right is always less; anarchy/libertarianism is far right

Look into your local political philosophy textbook. Anglo countries have always used this duality.

It's only retarded Euros that have zero idea of liberalism and freedom, that use a different definition, as they've always been socialist in some way; it's all left wing to them.

No. Authoritarian ethno capitalism=/=leftism

>>132293645
Socialism isn't that far left.
Also: if leftism means more government, how do you explain leftist anarchists?

left right dichotomy cant be applied across culturals or times. What's lefting here could be right wing somewhere else. Its actually stupid to use it for any practical purposes.

>>132293898
>leftist anarchists?
retarded special snowflake meme "ideology"

>>132293898
>how do you explain leftist anarchists?
soviet psyop. Same reason democrats aren't reds anymore: America was trained to spot the commie, so the commies had to rebrand.

Also:
>>132293898
>Authoritarian (((ethno))) capitalism=/=leftism
So how do you explain Obama then? He was a gigantic corporate shill, so long as the corporation in question would get behind his agenda.

>>132292328
National Socialism is quite literally economic centrist with high national/cultural overtones.

>>132292328
Nazism is left wing, Fascism is left wing.
Both are big government collectivist trash.

>>132294352
>Authoritarian
>centrist

>>132292328
They engendered a merging of the two, on one hand they did nationalize corporations so that their wealth could be redistributed for the supposed greater good, however they were also strongly nationalistic and placed strong focus on traditions and religion. They lost the "muh workers muh equality" part of socialism and the small government minimal state part of right wing nationalism because the country needed both a heavy hand to force its citizens to rebuild and strengthen the nation quickly and the redistributed wealth and productivity of capitalists to do that rebuilding and strengthening.

In my opinion however is that such a system cannot be maintained due to the inherent failures of both socialist wealth redistribution and authoritarian government structures. Eventually a dictator will either displease his cronies and they will replace him, or he will displease his people and they will revolt against him. In addition to this, there's only so much of other people's money the Socialist can steal before it's gone, the people he steals from leave, or die, and he's faced with the same problem as the dictator, which is that a displeased group of either his fellow party members or the people will have him removed and replaced.

I don't quite think modern left/right can be applied to Nazis, partially because they display traits of both, and partially because the dichotomy has changed since then. Back then both Commies and Fascies were Authoritarians, they both produced heavyhanded government systems which centralized power as much as possible to crush as high a volume of resources out of their populations as possible. Modern leftism has retained that Commie/Socialist Authoritarianism, but modern rightists (the most recent generation of the right anyways) is much more strongly Libertarian, which wasn't true of the majority of Italian or German nationalists.

Our fight isn't one of Left/Right so much as one of Authority/Liberty.

>>132292328
Hitler was a Vegetarian who loved animals and provided lots of economic support for environmental protection and wanted the working class of Germany to "arise", while the term "Nazi" stood for the National Socialist Party.

You tell me.

>>132292328
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strasserism

In short, there was a left-leaning branch that was purged fairly early on, but the Nazis were most definitely right-leaning.

>>132293645

>Anglo countries have always used this duality
Still wrong.

Left and right come from the French Revolution, and the split within their own house. Left was the party of change, and right was the party of order. The entire WESTERN WORLD has used this terminology since the revolution.

Authoritarianism and socialism are not the same thing. Shit, socialism isn't even dependent on big government. Admittedly it leans that way, and yes, socialism is clearly far-left, but that does not mean it is necessarily authoritarian.

to say that anarchy is far right in governmental terms when it's the complete absence of government is fucking nonsense. Especially when socially-static, highly ordered societies such as theocracies and 'religious right' parties consistently endeavor to increase government size and power, just not in the same direction as liberal governments do.

The more-less government divide (authoritarian vs libertarianism) is entirely different than the left-right divide.

>>132293266
You're wrong too. Right wing government can have as much of a state as the left wing, but it isn't about change or preservation.

It all has to do with ownership and how you define it. There's a lot of political theory and we could spend our lives debating philsophy in what a person is, but you should look at it in terms of owns less but is provided for, to is less provided for but can own more.

Another way of looking at it is running a spectrum from each according to his needs, to each according to his wants. You can work on the left and have everything you need, or you can work on the right and have everything you want. These two are different, and most of the world exists in the middle, with half of our needs met by the state and the other half being what we are made to want.

>>132292328

Radical centrists.

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>>132293360
>>132293645
Excuse me while I reee. I can no longer continue to bare this ignorance of material learned in political science 101 or a ten second Google search.

RIGHT-WING IS RELATED TO SOCIAL VALUES YOU STUPID FUCKING ENLIGHTENMENT ECONOMY OBSESSED PIECES OF SHIT RETARDS

>>132294806
>Radical centrist
So Neo-Liberal

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>>132292328
Yes. Basically Nazism is socialism but for white "Aryans" only. It's hilariously misguided and that is why they were so utterly BTFO.

>>132292328
Yes, just like the Democrats are the evil ones because they were pro-slavery.

>>132294715

I see where you're coming from, and maybe I worded my post incorrectly, but it was intended more toward radicalism vs. reactionarism.

That radicalism, generally speaking, is about collectivism and 'progress' as defined by lefties. The reactionarism is the rejection of that collectivism and the preservation of previously valued class structures (ie the rich should always be the rich because they 'deserve it.')

We're on pretty much the same page, but we're emphasizing different parts of the definitions.

Yes they were though right wing back than was royalism and the Bourgeoisie - literally all of the founding fathers of the original left were proud nationalists.

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>>132294329

Nepotism / Crony Capitalism.

There were certain areas where Obama was basically a carbon copy of Bush, but the leftists wouldn't dare raise a finger against their Messiah.

>>132294852
So what is a Monarchy?
Maybe you should consider reading into the historical significance of this question, instead of devolving into an autist spouting /pol/ memes. So far
>>132294715
>>132293951
Are the most correct, as which "side" a movement is on really depends on what "side" the previous movement was from.

Overall, however, it has been used to describe varying degrees of private vs public ownership, mainly stemming from a monarchy style of ownership (whereas the crown owns practically everything).
Funnily enough, monarchies are typically considered right-wing, as they are technically a style of private ownership. States, especially democratic ones, have a larger public "sector", and as such were expressed as left-wing, giving the foreground to this anon's post. >>132294638

So, building off of >>132294715, National Socialist can be considered left-wing due to the socialist aspect. A fundamental aspect of socialism is a large public sector designed to provide for the socialist policies.
A right wing state would fundamentally be less controlling over property, which is in stark contrast to socialist tendencies.

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>>132293970
It has a lot of literature behind it dude.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_anarchism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Bookchin

>>132294096
>soviet psyop
Anarchism existed before the Soviet Union did, y'know.

>>132294329
I'm sorry, this post doesn't make any sense. Explain what about Obama? He's not a leftist, if that's what you're thinking.
Can you restate it?
The Third Reich was an attempted Authoritarian capitalist ethno state, like it explicitly was.

>>132295571
I want this Liberals=Leftist meme to end

>>132295571

This. The Democratic and Republican parties in the US are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay closer politically than Americans realize, or want to admit.

They're essentially one big party with two factions vying for control of the corporatist economy. I have my problems with Trump, but at least one good thing he's done is thrown a monkey wrench into that whole thing.

Admittedly it was so that his OWN corporatist buddies could do their thing unimpeded, but at least they're slightly different people. The chaos is beautiful.

>>132295809
>He's not a leftist
So are communist not leftist?
And Anarchism existed before communism, but was given a central role in communist theory, effectively coopting the term.

>>132295753
>So what is a Monarchy?
Obviously reactionary and thus right-wing you retard. Keep grasping at straws at le caps lock you fucking dumb fuck.

>>132295753
>So what is a Monarchy?

Monarchy on its own is independent of left-right politics because there's no debate or wings involved. It's autocratic.

That said, they're formally conservative in that they're set up to preserve their own political power, but the individual leader can have wildly differing social positions depending on the time in history and personal leanings.

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>>132292328
>is literal SOCIALISM left wing?

typical cuck cigar flag intelligence on display everybody.

>>132295140
>communism
>not a Jewish system
Jej

>>132295885
>I have my problems with Trump, but at least one good thing he's done is thrown a monkey wrench into that whole thing.
I've yet to see any evidence that Trump is significantly different than your regular GOP president save for his penchant for trolling people on twitter.

>>132295948
>So are communist not leftist?
They are, but Obama wasn't a communist. It would've been kinda cool if he was, but he's definitely your run of the mill American capitalist centrist who happens to be black.
>effectively coopting the term
lol, what? Says who?

>>132293898
>Also: if leftism means more government, how do you explain leftist anarchists?
Extra chromosomes.

>>132296125
>Monarchy on its own is independent of left-right politics because there's no debate or wings involved
Not too far from base, but not totally correct. The departure from Monarchies is what gave rise to the left-right question.

Another issue with this particular debate is the confusion surrounding left/right vs liberalism/conservatism. I find that not everyone agrees on the relationship between these two pairs.
I'm still quite convinced by the bong's post here>>132294715
Breaking it down to question of ownership really clears up the differences in my mind.

>>132296252

>Entire government set up to preserve ethnic and class structure. Literally killed left wingers.

>Left wing

>>132292496
>"the third position"

And I thought SJWs were special snowflakes.

>>132296394
>>I have my problems with Trump, but at least one good thing he's done is thrown a monkey wrench into that whole thing.
>I've yet to see any evidence that Trump is significantly different than your regular GOP president save for his penchant for trolling people on twitter.


Nepotism is always bad, but it's never been this transparent. His blatant and LOUD disregard for both science and the will of the people, all in the name of corporate profits he touts as 'economic success,' is the single most divisive thing in modern political history. Plenty of people are quick to jump in with 'there's always disagreements' but the scale is what makes him different.

I don't really think he's DOING anything too different, scale aside, but the way the country is reacting is pretty telling.

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>>132292328
/pol/:

Due to the distinct differences culturally, politically, and economically between western and eastern Canada, myself and a group of other Western Canadians have created a libertarian movement called the Western Alliance, which proposes that British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Northwest Territories and the Yukon secede and become one single independent nation, in charge of our own destiny.

If any of you have advice for our movement or are interested in joining, follow us on our official Western Alliance Twitter account:
>@WAMovement

>>132296394
>but Obama wasn't a communist
Except for the part where his mentor was a literal communist, right?
>American capitalist centrist
>he thinks corruption is exclusive to America, instead of a constant trait of government
You commies are quite retarded. How do you not even realize how the meaning of "Anarchy" changed from before the Marx to after?
Go find some sources from before the 19th century that encourage Anarchy or give it any credit outside of absolute disgust.

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>>132296819

>>132296484
>>Monarchy on its own is independent of left-right politics because there's no debate or wings involved
>Not too far from base, but not totally correct. The departure from Monarchies is what gave rise to the left-right question.

But that's what I said in reference to the French Revolution. The absence of the monarchy led to left-right as the people struggled to understand which direction they should go.

Monarchy on its own... left-right is irrelevant in its inherent autocracy.

Daily reminder that there is only one axis on the political spectrum with totalitarianism on the far left and anarchy on the far right. And the two axes political spectrum is bullshit propaganda created by cultural Marxist professors in order to put more distance between communism and national socialism.

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>>132296865

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>>132296490
>no, it wasn't REAL socialism

every socialist loving shit bag ever. you're no different, idiot.

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>>132296974

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>>132297016

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>>132297067

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>>132297110

>>132292328
The Democrats are the real racists!

this thread again

Liberal is left
Conservative is right

Fascism is up
Anarchism is down

you can be up to the left, down to the right, etc

where you are on the x axis does not dictate where you are on the y axis

you can be a fascist liberal

>>132296746
>disregard for both science
Climate Change is a political tool. Educate yourself.
>will of the people
Illegals don't count, sorry you can't accept that.
>>132296921
Oh, didn't realize that was your post.
>The absence of the monarchy led to left-right
I feel this is a little offbase, as the departure from monarchies was a bit more of a leftist idea(empowerment to the people via creation of a state) than a right-leaning one .

I mainly base this on the idea that Monarchies are an expression of absolute private ownership, as opposed to the state being a structure of public ownership.

Honestly, this entire debate has been muddied by the communist revolution, as they very often would disassociate words with their actual meanings in favor of controlling thought.
It also needs to be viewed through the lens of history, which is never easy.

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>>132292496
literally this

National socialism is right wing, get over it. Right wingers need to stop this fighting and focus on the real (((enemies))) Conservatives (fuck neo cons), Libertarians, NatSoc's, Fascists, unite against the real enemy

Also Alt lite kekstanis are fucking left winged kike owned niggers who have the same values as leftists. so they are not allowed in our holy alliance.

>>132292328

Yes and no. Horseshoe theory dictates that the far right and far left will have more in common with each other than the moderate left and moderate right, but one is still considered "left" and one "right".

>>132292328
Yes, the extreme far-right movement was in fact left wing.

Dipshit.

>>132297733
This.
The left is incredibly divided amongst many branching ideologies but they're united in the destruction of Western civilization. The "Right" needs to put aside their differences and unite to put an end to the threats we face.
Stand together or hang separately.

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Hitler was a radical centrist

>>132297551

I understand what you mean regarding the departure from Monarchism, but I see it more as a rejection of the singular authority in pursuit of collective power rather than a leftist idea. The more I read about the revolution, the more I realize that those people did NOT have an endgame. Democracy/republicanism/the oligarchy not far off from what they already had... whatever you want to call it, was the compromise because there was no figure to take authoritarian leadership following all the beheading. Left and right developed in response to the confusion and infighting.

Like, I get what you mean, but I kind of reverse cause and effect from your opinion.

>>132296125
What? The left-right dichotomy started with the French Revolution. The right were monarchists and the left were anti-monarchy.

>>132298262
He's not even near the center in this pic.

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>>132296861
>Except for the part where his mentor was a literal communist, right?
Yeah, doesn't mean shit if Obama never acted on it while he was in office. Pretty slim difference between him and Hillary policy wise.

>>he thinks corruption is exclusive to America, instead of a constant trait of government
I don't. I'm just labeling Obama's policies. You need to calm down dude.
>Go find some sources from before the 19th century that encourage Anarchy or give it any credit outside of absolute disgust.
Okay.
>William Godwin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enquiry_Concerning_Political_Justice
>Jean-Jacques Rousseau (arguably)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Jacques_Rousseau#Theory_of_Natural_Human
>Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre-Joseph_Proudhon
>The Diggers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diggers

What the fuck are you rambling about anyway I'm not even an anarchist, dude. Calm your tits.

>>132297651
except capitalism inst a ideology so how is it comparable to communism. Fascism and communism are more similar even though they hate each other.

>>132296746
Yeah, I think Trump's only difference is that he's much more blatant about his policy than his predecessors. I don't really see him as anything other than a modern day Nixon

>>132292507
Can someone explain the guy in the white bell bottoms? With the black hat and sash?

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>>132298845
>capitalism inst a ideology