Britbongs; explain yourselves

>>132291364
Who? What? Explain what's abbenin m9?

>>132291364
get trump to save it

>>132291364
I've heard 3 different variations of this story now, seems like everyone just believes what they want to believe

>>132291543
>Baby has rare disease
>Is kept on life support for a while
>Doctor in USA has experimental treatment that may save baby
>Family raises 1 million plus £ to send him over here
>court says they won't let em do it
>appeal
>denied
>appeal
>denied
>Baby dying soon

>>132291599
Done
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/881875263700783104

>>132291364
>No cure
>American doctors just have a treatment
>Baby will still be brain dead and in constant pain

I don't agree with it, I think they should go through with it, but our doctors have an oath to the patient to do what they think is best. The courts should never have been involved though and the doctors should just be a recommendation not a declaration.

>>132291364
Why are you against natural selection?

>>132292062
Exactly this. Why your courts telling people their baby has to die? You're setting some pretty shitty precedent here.

>>132291788

and now Trump and THE POPE agree the baby should be brought to the states.

>>132292082
I'm against a court ruling that a child has to die shit for brains. This is when the "Le edgy," meme gets so fucking annoying, because you people LARP all day about "muh freedom," and "muh liberty," and then when you're confronted with something that's actually infringing on those things it's like "lol, natural selection bro."

File: 170329135733-theresa-may-reax-laughter-large-169.jpg (36KB, 460x259px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 460x259px

Will Americans EVER understand banter??

>>132292174
The parents actually involved the courts I've just read to go against the doctors.

>>132292082
go to somalia if you don't want modern medicine.

>>132291364
>give him a chance at life
No, a chance at a couple more months.

>>132292082
>Implying true natural selection wouldn't have wiped your ass out by now.

>>132292304
The Pope wanting to save a white baby? Are you serious?

>>132292174
>Why your courts telling people their baby has to die?
It's not the court saying, it's the fatal incurable condition it has saying it. Do you think it's better to keep a child barely alive for a few more months or to just let it end and try again?

>>132292509
Quote from Slate even though they're total shit
>Numerous courts have ruled that any experimental therapy would not help Charlie get better and would only increase suffering of a baby who can’t see, move, hear, cry or swallow and has irreversible brain damage. But it seems a hospital in the United States has offered to treat the baby free of charge. The family has managed to raise $1.7 million for the treatment
So because a court has ruled that experimental treatment won't help, you have to shut up and say okay?

>>132292631

AND he agrees with Trump on something. strange times eh?

File: 235589ogsfdndfsg.jpg (97KB, 1000x726px) Image search: [Google]

97KB, 1000x726px

>>132291364
Baby is dying, is already brain dead.
Treatment might stop further damage but it can't repair anything.
All treatment would do is keep the body alive, but only with life support.

You know what time it is.

man dude the baby is gonna die anyway

if it were my son id inject that nigga with experimental hulk serum if i though it would save him

File: 1478445419103.jpg (173KB, 1440x1625px) Image search: [Google]

173KB, 1440x1625px

>>132291830
GOD DAMN I love that man, Saving the White Race one child at a time

File: 1498849499048.jpg (73KB, 640x640px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 640x640px

>>132291364
I know a lot of anions are against pessimism but were fucked here man

>>132291364
because that baby looks like a faggot, thats why.

These threads made me realize there is no jew-backed white genocide. White people are just fucking retarded.

>give birth to a scrambled potato
>instead of dumping it, dedicate your fertile years to prolonging his short miserable life
> other white retards donate millions for 1 single doomed vegetable

>be Asian
> birth potato
> dump it into the trash where it belongs and make new normal babies

>>132291723

Krauts will definitely defend government death panels.

There is something truly fucked up with the German mind.

>>132292759
Do you think it's up to the court to make that decision for you?
And to answer your question so I don't sound like I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing, if it was my child I would want to do what I want with it. If I wanted to give it the experimental therapy then I should be able to do it, if I want to pull the plug I should be able to do it as well.

>>132291364
what would hitler do?

>>132293144
Kill yourself you fucking retard, are you really this illiterate?

>>132292862
Parents keep torturing their baby. State steps in and says that's enough.

Religious nut bars lose their shit.

>>132293107

>Implying the Jew would be concerned with a scrambled potato

The fact is, humans are a little more complicated than White baby producing units. Weirdo.

>>132293107
>asian
>normal
>baby
you mean larvae

>>132291364

Not my kid.

>>132293107
You're a fucking retard. For every 1 person that keeps their baby alive on life support a million more will have normal healthy babies, it's not like this situation is the norm.

>>132293018
>Anions
Not even good enough to be a cation I see

>>132293407
Too negative.

>>132293349
This is why the white race is dying. Not the Jews. Just whites being retarded virtue signalling cucks

>>132293225
Stop getting triggered by this germanophobic jew hiding behind a star-spangled banner. Just ignore him.

>>132293244

youre right ever child with terminal leukaemia should be killed on the spot so they dont have to suffer. Its merciful after

File: FB_IMG_1498487656640.jpg (39KB, 496x476px)

39KB, 496x476px

>>132293407
Haha my bad anon Im sleepy it's 2am

File: Screen Shot 2017-07-03 at 9.05.16 PM.png (969KB, 1377x1010px) Image search: [Google]

969KB, 1377x1010px

>>132291364
https://kikebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1536574603033679&id=567036616654154
I found this interview the parents gave. Apparently the doctors made the mother stop breastfeeding, and this experimental drug is based off of chemicals abundant in breastmilk... Mom says kid's condition rapidly declined after she was instructed not to breastfeed.
I can't understand why the parents have been forbidden to attempt further treatment in a different country. Is this an issue of pride for socialized doctors in Britain ??

File: Scooty_puff_jr.jpg (9KB, 225x169px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 225x169px

>>132291364
>>>132291788
>
>and now Trump and THE POPE agree the baby should be brought to the states.
>Scootypuff-antichrist

>>132293225
Get fucked by a sandnigger, faggot. This is disgusting, and you know it.

>>132293689
I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but if we take your statement literally everyone with a terminal illness should have the option for death.

In the case of minors with approval of their parents or in the case of disagreement between child and parent with approval of a court.

For infants it should be automatic.

>>132293107
>https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/881875263700783104
The jewish conspiracy has always been a cop out objectification of a problem that lies inside us, a problem that we created for ourselves because fate dictated it would be so. There have been hundreds of events in history that could have pushed us off the track towards diversification and extermination, but none of them struck. There could have been hundreds of events that occured, that didn't have to occur, that would also have pushed the track in a different direction. But we are here, and we must fix the tangible problem.

>>132291364
They would never try this shit with a muzzie baby

>>132291788

Why the fuck listen to what some court faggot has to say? Just go to the US?

>>132291364
Human rights violation.
The kid is suffering from an uncurable decease.
Experts were heard during the hearing.
The most humane thing to do is to let the little thing go.
Sad.

>>132294443
>implying a 747 has the medical material, or even the space, to carry a child on life support.

Also, gov took custody.

>>132294125
Oh look, another illiterate retard

>>132291364

>chance at life

No. He's a vegetable. He's literally non-sentient and kept alive for no reason other than the parents refuse to pull the plug.

>parents beg for £1 million

So if it's theirs, they should invest 500k in US property and then move there and see why only the most ridiculously rich americans keep vegetables on iron lungs and heart palpitation machines.

The state simply said there's no chance at survival so they need to give it up and they refuse to sign a waiver for the child to be taken to the US so it can get some magical jew treatment that will do fuck all because the baby is irreparably fucked.

>>132294912
(((Experts)))

>yes goy, this little white child is a lost cause
>just let the white boy die goyim!

>>132294912
If they just killed everything with an incurable disease how would we effectively test potential treatments?

>>132295119
You are fucking disgusting burger.
Die in fire.

>>132294443
Can't. The Britbong court decided the parents are forbidden to take the baby from the hospital. The baby has to die in the UK "with dignity"

File: 1_1485036713-400x450.jpg (39KB, 400x450px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 400x450px

>>132295173
Do you even poo in the loo?

>>132291364
not to be an edgey faggot, but that little snowflake kid probably isnt worth the investment in saving his life, because chances are he'll just be a half braindead tax draining veggie if he survives the treatment

>>132295199
t. Shlomo Shekelberg

>>132295374
He cannot survive the treatment.
It will buy him time.

>>132295376
If that makes you sleep at night.

>>132291364
Bongs don't want to save a white baby

File: 1469322374156.png (103KB, 440x522px) Image search: [Google]

103KB, 440x522px

>>132295199
his comment must have hit pretty close to the mark

>>132295173
>If they just killed everything with an incurable disease how would we effectively test potential treatments?

Yes lets travel down the slippery slope of stupidity, because nothing says my opinion is important like taking only extreme positions.

>>132292759

Why are you hiding your UK flag? Are you afraid Mohammed will see it and hit you again?

>>132295623
Die already, nuke yourself cunt.
Do it.

Some context
> babybong has very rare decease (26 cases)
> babybong is suffering more than you can phanthom
> is against human rights to keep baby suffering like that
> here comes burger
> "muh white genocide, urrr durrr 56%"

Fuck you,
sincerely.

>>132294160
Life is a terminal illness, it has a 100% fatality rate. Should we kill every infant as a result of this affliction they all share? Of course not, that's absurd.

Therefore we cannot claim that we should kill infants with terminal illness.

>>132295081
>the state said

And this is why you're fucking retarded. Fuck the state. Do what you want, Britbongs. It's your child.

>>132291364

it's white.

>>132296239
so if someone is suffering it doesnt matter what chances we have to fix it? the only solution is death?

you are a coward. you fear pain so much you think that death is preferable.

>>132296239
>parents willing to try experimental procedure that may work
>being against a chance to see if this procedure could help the baby and possibly those afflicted with it in the future

Fuck off, snail, or I'll get the salt.

>>132295852

You do understand that most childhood cancers were considered terminal diseases until they tried to mustard gas them (chemo) out of desperation.

What a retard. 10$ your flag is German or sweedish

>>132291364
>Treatment gets approved
>Baby goes to US
>Fucking DIES
>Liberals cheer the death of a baby in the name of anti-Trumpism

>>132296390
They need a special plane that allows the transportation of a child on life support.
They need a doctor and nurses to keep the baby in good conditions.
Baby is litteraly dying and all that treatment can do is buy the baby time.
The baby is suffering every single second of its life.
>>132296566

>>132294160
but theres a chance they can save the baby. they raised a million pounds to try. how is it more humane to just kill it without even trying?

File: 1470487206979.png (51KB, 657x527px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 657x527px

>Trump offers support in bringing child to the US
>"wow trump inserting himself in this story, sad"
>"since it's not a syrian refugee he cares now"

The fuck, liberals. I'm not Trump's biggest fan either but if the President himself is offering assistance in bringing the baby to the US so he can have a experimental treatment, you don't weaponize it into a "fuck drumpf" thing. You don't have to praise him either, just be quiet and let the family (who BY THE WAY raised money for it) try to save their child. Fucking heartless bastards.

Parent's should have the right to take their potato to the US for this nonsense Jew treatment if they want, without the state intervening. The parents raised money for it, let them waste it if they want to. That's their right and the state tries to stop them, that's overstepping their bounds.

At the same time, the state should reserve the right not to drain the already overburdened NHS by keeping a potato on continued life support. It's okay for the dumb parents to waste their own money, but they don't have the right to waste taxpayer money.

>>132291364

why don't they just make a new baby?

Government run healthcare won't lead to death panels.

>>132292759
I personally think it's better to let it die and mourn the loss than drag this out, but a court making that decision for them is a yuge infringement on their liberty.

>>132296784
DEATH PANELS this asshole wants death panels. fucking nigger isn't president anymore fuck you.

>>132296674
Pain is temporary. It will pass regardless of the outcome.

>>132291364
>letting the baby seek treatment elsewhere challenges the benevolence of the state.

>>132297012
Basically this.
>THAT STATE SAID HE HAS NO CHANCE
DO NOT QUESTION IT

>>132291364
Because the baby is white.
If it was shit-colored-brown with muslim parents, they would seize houses and sell to pay for the treatment.

Letting a baby suffer gets people riled up. Prolonging that suffering gets people crazy. Putting an end to his suffering is the only ethical, moral and humane thing to do.

>>132291364
who cares about a white cis couple?
you know damn well if it was a gay muslim couples surrogates baby its itd be on its way by private jet.

>>132291364
Listen up fuccbois. Important piece of information that the news doesn't like mentioning.

Current chance of kid surviving - 0%. Chance of kid surviving with experiment Amerifat treatment - 0%. Chance of kid ever being able to function in any way vaguely like a human being - 0%. He should have been taken off life support months ago and this should have never hit the news. It's just the parents trying desperately to make themselves feel better.

And no, the experimental treatment won't extend the kid's lifespan. He's dead the moment they take him off life support regardless.

>>132291364
I personally think they should kill the baby for eugenics purposes, but why the hell can a court of law DICTATE what the parents must do? Is England really a totalitarian society?

>>132297260
thy tried that you sociopath. they werent allowed to help end his suffering the sensible way and the court ruled that they must kill their only child.

>>132296583
>experimental procedure that may work
May work at what? Prolonging a vegetable a little longer? Yeah, maybe but why?

>>132297345
It would've been on the plane yesterday, and all the news outlets would be saying
>"HERE'S HOW TRUMP IGNORED THE PLIGHT OF TEVARUS MUHAMMUD"

>>132297446
t. Guy who doesn't know the results of the experimental treatment blindly sucks the cock of the court and acts like he knows the certain result

>>132292759
I say let the poor thing die. It's not much a life if all your living is for pain.
On the other hand, this isn't the law's decision. The law isn't your babysitter.

This is what people want, though. They want mommy government to make all the decisions for them. People apparently don't like the right to choose anymore, and the government should make people do what it sees as best.

>>132297557
everyone knows the state knows more about medicine than doctors do now shut up or ill put a cctv camera in your bathroom

>>132292062
Doctors swear to do no harm and advise patients as best they can. The patient makes major decisions in their treatment.

>>132291788
How about rather than moving the baby the move the doctor?

>>132297557
The treatment is intended to reverse the cause of brain damage. It doesn't reverse the actual brain damage, hence it's useless in this situation.

>>132297814
the doctor would get in the shit/probably isnt licenced to practice in the UK

>>132297818

they'd be caring for it the rest of its life too.

>>132297818
ill assume youre on the cutting edge of research into this particular rare disorder then?

>>132296586
>You do understand that most childhood cancers were considered terminal diseases until they tried to mustard gas them (chemo) out of desperation.
What you are suggesting is that if this infant isn't treated then all medical research stops, forever.

>>132297924
thats their choice. you dont just volunteer someones child to be killed because you think theyd have a hard time looking after it. thats not your call

>>132297818
Tbqh I agree with you and know it's a lost cause but I'm mainly just irritated that the government thinks they can just take control of the child from his own fucking parents and make the decision of whether he gets treatment or not.

>>132297526
>Fag talking about eugenics

>>132297446
thank you for your candor. I want to believe that human life has some value, but a million bucks just to have a slim chance at life? that isn't reasonable

Kids sadly brain dead. Nothing can be done.

Now Trump is fucking cashing in on it. (Also the Pope is letting his Argentinianess show).

>>132296702
>but theres a chance they can save the baby. they raised a million pounds to try. how is it more humane to just kill it without even trying?
Because the baby is still brain damaged and only has a life of constant pain ahead. The treatment isn't going to undo the damage.

So how much suffering would you force on a child?

>>132291723
Heres the leaders of the free world demanding you not give white people special medical treatment even if they can afford it.

>>132291364
America first. Also, why should we let mongrels from a muslim nation come here and use our healthcare?

>>132297979

M8 we've had two reports published that said this much, even the Americans admit this.

>>132291364

Just let him go to the US FFS

Fucking nanny states

>>132297534
>they must kill their only child.
Make another one. It's not like this one has a personality they grew to love.

File: 1445919655786.png (269KB, 479x358px) Image search: [Google]

269KB, 479x358px

>>132297898
>government

>>132294912
>Don't allow the old or terminally ill to off themselves
>Court ruling to murder sick baby
>Best interest of the patient.....

>>132297979
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_DNA_depletion_syndrome

The sources under "References" should help.

>>132298042
They're stopping them out of an ethical duty to not cause unnecessary suffering to the child.

File: 1476012240144.jpg (52KB, 348x310px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 348x310px

>>132295339
whats this

>>132298078
ok go ask someone with brain damage if theyd like you to kill them to end their suffering if if they prefer life with brain damage over no life at all?

>>132298241
Yes, best interest.
The poor thing is not viable for life.
Even under life support.

>>132298044
>he thinks I'm a fag because of the fag flag

>>132298078

Further proof that Europeans are a weak-willed, immoral people who need a government to tell them what to do.

>the parents are doing something I don't like! The government must stop this even if it sets precedent to allow the government to stop me from doing something with my kids in the future!

>>132298280
>unnecessary suffering

Childs probably not even self aware yet. It's suffering either way, and has been for months. It's all temporary. If the parents want to give an experimental treatment a chance they should be able to, it's their child and their blood. The government has no right to laugh in their face and take custody away from them and then deny him treatment.

>>132298377
harlequin baby

>>132291364
Euros don't have any concept of liberty, it's why they give their governments so much power and are happy to be disarmed and "cared for"

>>132291788
You missed the part where the baby already has severe irreparable brain damage. Even if the experimental treatment saved its life, it would live as a vegetable.

I'm not saying that makes the court's decision right, I am saying it was a factor in their decision that needs to be acknowledged. This kid wasn't going to get over this and lead a full life, he'd spend the next "?" years being pushed around in a wheelchair, being fed from a tube and pissing and shitting through other tubes.

>>132298522
>>the parents are doing something I don't like! The government must stop this
Correct. Torture isn't acceptable in a civilized nation.

>>132298570
Lack of self-awareness is not the same as not feeling pain. Animals and even insects feel pain.

>>132291364
>government refuses to let child be saved
>liberals want America to have the same system as Europe
Fuck. Off.

>>132298116
Oh believe me this would be a bigger story if the kid's name was mohammed, but still, there's waaay more facets to this whole dilemma that OP lets on

File: 1494278895605.jpg (42KB, 657x527px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 657x527px

For all those saying the baby has no chance to survive/brain dead forever even with burger injection, would this have been the case if the baby had had access to the burger injection months earlier or could the baby actually become normal if he was treated promptly?

File: is that the bbc by any chance.jpg (62KB, 554x739px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 554x739px

>>132298137
>>132298060
>>132297818
>>132297446
Did you hear that on the BBC by any chance?

https://youtu.be/p0TMjSgw5mM?t=188

>>132298699
Lmao, apparently the child is too hopeless even with the treatment to live a worthy life that we can decide to take from him, but is aware and cognizant enough to recognize torture and pain to the point that we need to kill him to stop it

>>132298774
Correct. I still crush beetles with no remorse though.

>>132298002

Strawman harder leftist

>>132298935

Nah M8 I actually read the report of the American doctor who had a video link to the court appeal.

>>132298963
The baby feels pain. It's not sapient but it is sentient.

>>132299084
So? If the pain is meaningless what does it matter?

>>132298990
>Strawman harder leftist

>>"If they just killed everything with an incurable disease how would we effectively test potential treatments?"

And that's not?

>>132298655

But it's not the court's decision to make. This isn't the case of the government punishing parents for neglecting to get proper and available medical treatment. This is a case of the government literally saying "you cannot get medical treatment for your child because we know better than you."

>>132298774
the vast majority of insects dont feel pain. thats why you dont need to go through an ethics board to do experiments on them.

keep making shit up up though, you really come off as an authority on this topic

>>132299120
>So? If the pain is meaningless what does it matter?
How did you get that from my statement?
The pain is what matters, as well as the brain damage.

>>132291364
>Why?
Doctors decided that it wasn't worth it because the damage to the brain is irreversible anyway. That said, it's fucked that the parents can't bring their baby to the US, since it's their fucking right to do so. It's a fucking disgrace that the doctors in Bongland aren't fighting with the parents once they had made their decision

>>132299260
If something is not even self aware enough to comprehend pain, pain as we understand it holds zero meaning.

File: 1494717174221.png (36KB, 468x957px)

36KB, 468x957px

>>132292993
Time for that baby to get dunked on

>>132299227
That was disproven. Many insects have a nervous system. Your comment is retarded btw. Are you arguing that a baby doesn't feel pain?

>>132297979
He doesn't personally have to be. No one is debating the fact that potato baby will never recover from the brain damage, not even the doctor offering the experimental treatment.

>>132293244

There isn't really any torture going on though. For all intents and purposes, the baby already died. It's brain dead. Common sense dictates that, once your brain is gone, you're gone. All that's left is a fleshy sack of organs being kept animated via machine. The brain can no longer carry out these functions.

Look man, if this had been something different, like, you know, the baby actually having a chance at growing up and being a fairly if not completely normal person, and the courts cockblocked it like this, I would say that some judges need to hang. But, it's not like this. This poor baby is long gone. There's nothing left in there.

Doctors are idiots on both sides of the Atlantic. When my dad was injured and received moronic medical advice in Britain, he came to the States, paid an arm and a leg, and got [mostly] fixed up. When my mom fell ill and received moronic medical advice here in the U.S., her brother, a British surgeon, wrote a polite letter to the U.S. doctor explaining why his diagnosis was fucking retarded.

The only thing that could make the situation worse is judicial involvement in patient choice. So well done, Britain. Once again, you know what's best for everybody.

>>132299551
>Common sense dictates that, once your brain is gone, you're gone.

I still post, though.

>>132299307
>If something is not even self aware enough to comprehend pain, pain as we understand it holds zero meaning.

The infant feels pain and is sentient.
It's not sapient and never will be.

All people that are brain dead or so massively damaged to be nonviable without life support should be euthanized.

>>132294160
You're sick.

>>132296890

Absolutely. I think I'd go with the doctors' recommendation, but I'm quite shocked the parents are being made to do so against there wishes. I can't understand what gives them the right. It's one of the legal cases that raises the question - who are our judges accountable to?

>>132291364
The UK loves seeing it's children die in favor of letting niggers and paki rapists live

see: Rhodesia and South Africa and their favoritism of paki immigrants

>can't breathe
>can't swallow
>can't move
>extensive unrepairable brain damage
>can't survive off of life support

Just let the poor bugger die, he deserves to be with God now.

>>132296890
you are the person in the wrong here. you assume that britbongs HAVE liberty. they do whatever the nanny state says

File: CqYGo79WAAASmrk.jpg (64KB, 910x752px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 910x752px

isn't this kid deaf, blind and suffering from brain damage? Even if you "same" him, it's most likely going to be a fucking vegetable for the rest of its life.

Let him die with dignity.

>>132299173
It may actually be the state's decision to make. If lingering for months or years with no self-awareness and only the sensation of physical pain is worse for it than simply dying, and the parents are too deluded to see that, it may be the state's obligation to step in and prevent medically induced permanent torture.

It's not like they're just establishing death panels to cull all babies deemed genetically inferior, this is a single, highly unique case. The specifics of this highly unique case may be drastic enough to overrule abstract principles of liberty and freedom, and justify them stepping in and saying "no, you cannot subject the potato baby to medically induced permanent torture".

I'm not gonna come down and say that it absolutely is justified, but I certainly see the argument for why it would be.

File: IMG_2065.jpg (222KB, 1000x554px) Image search: [Google]

222KB, 1000x554px

>>132300442
As if such a condition hasn't been overcome before

>>132298636
Useless follower. I'll take Mongo all day.

>>132300132
>You're sick.
So people shouldn't have that option? They should be forced to suffer with never ending care living in constant pain?

Are you a sadist?

File: Liberia-bbq.jpg (853KB, 1200x869px) Image search: [Google]

853KB, 1200x869px

>>132291364
This is what happens when you give the government control of your healthcare. Keeping your baby alive is a god-given right.
I'm glad we 1776'd back in 1776.

>>132291364
The baby has no chance of actually living. The courts are simply trying to put an end to what would otherwise be needlessly prolonged suffering.

>>132298699
Giving any and all possible and experimental medical aid is torture?

>>132300514

We have a fundamental disagreement. I cannot buy into the notion that the government knows better than the parents whether a child's continued existence is worse than dying.

And as for your second paragraph, you left out the most important word -- "yet." Whenever the government gives itself a new power, however slim and curtailed that power may seem, the government will eventually expand it. The bongs will go from "well, just this one case because the kid is totally fucked" to "good news, everyone! Forced euthanasia of children is down 15% from the last decade!"

>>132298822

It's the legal system that's giving the orders here. Why would anyone object to doctors giving their recommendation?

>>132300709

But that's exactly it. The government is taking away an option here. The government is precisely the one saying "people shouldn't have that option." Not us.

>>132299504
1. they have no pain receptors
2. the sensation of pain is an emotional response, not a physical one


youre making shit up again stop it

>>132301283
Courts are saying that, the government hasn't said anything. Important distinction.

>>132301032
>Giving any and all possible and experimental medical aid is torture?
Keeping someone alive that has no chance of recovery, will only ever be a brain dead body, is in constant pain is torture.

What possible reason would you give for keeping that infant alive? It will never recover, it will never think all it will ever do is keep slowly dying in constant pain.

>>132301245

Because the whole reason the legal system had to get involved in the first place was that the NHS was preventing the parents from exercising choice.

File: 1583458359.jpg (245KB, 800x800px) Image search: [Google]

245KB, 800x800px

>>132301370

>>132301344
1. Yes they do, you're posting outdated disproven info.
2. "Physical pain isn't real" Literally wat?

File: 14453526565790.jpg (7KB, 250x241px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 250x241px

>>132301370

>the courts aren't an arm of the government

I don't mean to be rude, but are you being intentionally stupid?

>>132301389
how can you be brain dead, but still in constant pain?

youre full of shit, get rid of that kek flag and show us the leaf or tricolore

>>132301344
> crush an ant in two, cut the legs of a spider or cut a hornet in two.
> observe it during its last moments.
> realise insects feel pain.

https://askentomologists.com/2016/08/29/do-insects-feel-pain/

>>132301576
why did you put quotations around something i didnt say?

why dont you post the study that proves insects experience pain?

because youre making shit up, thats why

This is such a hard topic and one that's really divided public opinion here. Obviously it is not the state's remit to enforce a ban on the baby going to America for treatment, but is it the state's remit to take action to prevent undue suffering like this?

The child will never ever recover. He can't breathe, swallow, see, or hear. He hurts constantly. His entire world is just hurt, 24/7. It honestly breaks my heart and any human with empathy should feel the same way.

>>132301592
Organ donors are sometime given anesthesia if the surgeon believes some part of them might be feeling pain, after having been pronounced brain dead. Persistent vegetative state patients feel even slight pain.

>>132301591
Our legal system is very independent and rules against the government quite often. They're not even nearly as politicised as you're used to in America; judges aren't even legally allowed to declare political leanings.

>>132301283
>But that's exactly it. The government is taking away an option here. The government is precisely the one saying "people shouldn't have that option." Not us.
The person in question has no mind can't think and isn't able to give any opinion. So it's up to the guardians. The parents have opted for a treatment that will do nothing to improve the life of their child. It will only objectively extend the amount of suffering the child will suffer.

So in the interest of the child courts have ruled in favor of the doctors and experts and have rejected the arguments of the parents.

Just because you are a parent does not entitle you to ownership of your children. Parents are guardians not slave owners. Parents that would intentionally extend the suffering of their own child are not making judgements that are in the child's best interest or any midway standard of reasonable parenting.

Explain why the child should be kept alive and suffering.

>>132300442
Wasn't there another child with the same illness who got the experimental treatment and is now healthy and in kindergarten?
Besides, it's not an issue of if the kid should die. It's about whether the government can override a parent's wishes and have them euthanized. The treatment is already paid for, there's literally no reason not to go through with it.

>>132301677
The article you linked literally says this F the end.
> The typical position of entomologists is that insects feeling pain is pretty unlikely. In the past, I’ve argued a position stronger than the one that Bova argues in his piece…one which was based upon the information similar to what Bova received during his undergraduate training.

>So based on all of this new information, my response has gone from outright skepticism to something more akin to:
>¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>132301677
if you kill something it twitches. who knew.

are you saying that when you decapitate a chicken and it runs around for 10 seconds it's somehow feeling pain? even though its brain is 100% disconnected from its body?

>>132301151
Somebody has to make the call, the kid is a non-person and has no agency of his own. The parents are biased and lack objectivity, the doctors and courts are acting on responsible principles. I think we both agree that letting it die is the responsible decision; if the parents were willing to do that then very few people in this thread would have an issue with it. But they don't want to, and just because they spawned the little tater tot, that gives them the unmitigated right to subject it to medically induced and sustained permanent torture?

I don't think they're unilaterally entitled to do that just because they were negligent in aborting it. Somebody has to be a grown up and make a hard but necessary decision here. If the parents can't do that it falls to the state.

Well your second paragraph is a pure slippery slope argument. It's the same as an SJW saying that repealing Obamacare and revoking coverage for some people is the first step to another shoa.

>>132301389

How long can the kid be kept alive for? Is it even remotely possible a massive medical breakthrough could happen that could give this kid some semblance of a life?
I'm actually not of the same mind as the parents here, but I can still accept it's their decision.

>>132301934

Of course it rule against the government when it is right to do so, that's the role of a neutral arbiter. But to argue from that position that the courts, which have the sole purpose of interpreting the law, and which are a branch of the government established by whatever passes for a "constitution" in your rainy little socialist island, isn't an arm of the government, is too broad a leap.

The fact that the courts are established by the government and staffed entirely by government employees and act to apply the laws of the government on the populace makes the both a de facto and de jure branch of the government.

I'm torn between anger and pity for you. Please tell me how I should feel.

>>132302195
This is a reflex muscular twitch.

>>132302081
You only read what you want to.
I believe you forgot that etymologists are weirdos.
Here's the real ending.

> While we can’t say for sure with our current state of knowledge, it seems that the field of insect nociception may be heading in that direction.

>>132302262
>I think we both agree that letting it die is the responsible decision


well good thing we dont put you in charge of other peoples children

>>132301722
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0024343

>>132302396
>This is a reflex muscular twitch.
prove that the spider wriggling after you crush it is a pain reaction then?

>>132301951

>it's up to the guardians

You said it, brother. It's up to the kid's guardians, not the state.

>>132302473
Because it is still alive.

>>132301677

>Thinks spiders are insects.

>>132302479
They have the right to subject the child to medically induced and sustained permanent torture, because they spawn it and it's their property?

If a couple wanted to subject a healthy baby to medically induced and sustained permanent torture, would they have the right to do so, because they spawned it and its their property?

>>132302406
this article doesnt actually prove your point.

all it says is that fruit flys have thermally activated noireceptors. meaning they can feel too much heat.

this study doesnt prove ALL INSECTS FEEL PAIN

its clear to me that youre an idiot

>>132297538

What you don't seem to understand is that even if the kid is still brain damaged, this is a perfect opportunity to field test the treatment on a real victim. If this can reverse or even stabilize the disease before it frying kid brains in the future it could be very well worth it.

Literally everyone gets what they want: the parents get to treat their kid, the doctor gets to test his treatment, the community gets a potential new drug, and the bongs stop paying for the kid.

What is not to like?

>>132301798

Yes, it's so hard to decide that I can't understand how all the judges involved can be sure enough that they have the right to make the decision one way or the other.
Why do they think their decision should be given more power than the parents?

No one deserves superior health care than another comrade.

File: 1441644029966.jpg (133KB, 728x636px) Image search: [Google]

133KB, 728x636px

>>132302262

Of course the parents are biased, that's the role of a parent -- to weigh the interests of their child higher than the interests of others.

Right now what is happening is people working in the government who have no personal stake in this kid are saying "you are not allowed to try to save this kid. The kid should die." That is inherently an emotionally-loaded issue and the government has no business telling people what to do in this situation. How far can you take that reasoning? "Oh, this kid broke his neck off a trampoline, he's a quadriplegic. Better just not take care of him. Good thing we're so enlightened that we can make a more objective decision than the parents!"

And my second paragraph is not wrong. Slippery slopes aren't necessarily incorrect, and even if they were, it's not a slippery slope. The government always tries to expand its power. This entire controversy started because the government is trying to expand its power.

>tfw you give the government power to literally decide who lives and who dies because it'll never be abused

>>132302403
We need a eugenics policy immediately though.

>>132302699

1) I'm not willing to stipulate that it's medically-induced and sustained torture

2) Can you say with certainty that the treatment in the US would not fix whatever pain the kid is experiencing, assuming he is experiencing any pain?

3) Why does the government have the right to decide that the parents are wrong?

>>132303009

I mean, sure. If individual citizens want to do that, great. I'm all for designer babies. But fuck the government telling people who gets to live and who gets to die. We don't elect people so they can decide who among us must die.

>>132301934

So what happens when our judges fail to apply our laws in ways that the people disagree with?
If our legal system produces judges who tend to lean to one kind of decision over another, how do all other kinds of people (citizens, politicians, experts, even lawyers who don't get to be judges) hold the judges to account, and remove them if needed? Revolution?
Who judges the judges?

>>132303272

When you give the government the authority to control the entire medical system you also give them the authority to determine who lived and dies.

>>132302388
Okay well for a start you can change your tone. I'm just trying to discuss something with you.

You have to understand the organisation of the UK and its constitution, because this is a bit complicated. The Queen is the font of justice, all rulings and laws are in her name. She is a separate entity from the government, who run the country for her. Courts, while paid for by the government, rule on her behalf. They are independent from the government because they don't answer to the government, they answer to the Queen. We don't have "laws of the government", because they are simply passed by Parliament (which is also separate from the government) and then signed into law by the Queen. I hope that went some way to explaining the legal quagmire that is the UK constitution.

>>132301951
>Explain why the child should be kept alive and suffering.

Explain how doctors, or any kinds of experts, are NEVER wrong.

>>132302479
>You said it, brother. It's up to the kid's guardians, not the state.
To a limit.

Minors are still people with legal protections including protections from their parents.

>>132302963
>to weigh the interests of their child higher than the interests of others
And their appraisal is that it's in their child's best interest to linger for months or years in permanent pain, helpless, with no self-awareness, just the sensation of physical pain. I don't actually think they're very good judges of what's in the baby's best interests, I think the doctors and courts may be making a better call due to their emotional distance from the matter.

And the way you phrased it was a pure slippery slope fallacy, and fallacies are not arguments. And every government has always had the ability to decide who lives and who dies under some circumstances, this is just a highly unique case where they're invoking it in an unprecedented way.

And if parents are given total, unilateral, unassailable control of their childrens' welfare that can never be circumvented, no matter how clearly irresponsibly they're using it, you don't think that can be abused?

>>132300642
My fuckin nigga

>>132300514
>It's not like they're just establishing death panels to cull all babies deemed genetically inferior
Too bad

>>132303505
>Explain how doctors, or any kinds of experts, are NEVER wrong.
Why?

Do you think the parents are correct in this exact situation?
That with treatment their child will make a recovery and will regain major brain function?

>>132303366

Which is why socialized medicine is retarded.

But the issue isn't them taking the kid off life support. That's one thing. This is them saying "we're taking your kid off life support, and by the way, you're not allowed to seek medical treatment elsewhere." That right there is proper fucked.

>>132303172
1) Remaining on treatment that has been professionally acknowledged to not do anything other than extend suffering is what then if not torture?
2) Can I? No. Can the medical experts that have been advising the case for both plaintiff and defendant in court? Yes and they have.
3) Because most nations have stipulations for basic human rights. Violation of those is cause for the government to step.

Because you missed it: the parents wen to court to get the doctor's advice and refusal to transfer the patient to America overturned. The court sided with the medical professional over the hysterical and distraught parents that have even looked at a medical journal.

>>132300998
Thank you for your armchair diagnosis, Dr. Josef Mengele. Glad to see you and your medical team of liberal activist judges are on the case.

>>132291364
>Terminally ill
>Literally unsavable
>WAAH TAKE OUR MONEY AND PROLONG OUR AGONY

>>132299173
Except in this case they actually do know better. The parents are emotionally incapable of making the best decision for the kid.

>>132303366

That doesn't have to be the case, and you know it. Otherwise the government can mandate exactly what treatment goes to what person, whether they want it or not. There's indisputably patient choice involved in a big way.

File: video-undefined-1BA7F539000005DC-462_636x358.jpg (42KB, 636x358px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 636x358px

>>132303386

>change your tone

You know where you are, right?

Also, even though the courts are independent of the legislature (parliament) and the executive (whoever runs the military in bongland), that does not mean that they are then not part of the government. They are an independent branch of the government, whose decisions are backed up by the guns of the executive. If you disobey a court, even in limeytown, a different part of the government either forces you to do it or sends you to jail. The courts are absolutely part of the government.

To close, you're still an idiot and probably a fag too.

>you

>>132303644

>forbidding medical treatment is protection

I can't follow you down that path, friend.

>>132304227
good goy

the state knows best

>>132298377
Reptilian genes

>>132303854

No, I don't THINK that. But I don't think doctors, experts, or judges are God, either.

>>132303172
1) Good for you, you're in disagreement with every qualified expert who has had a say in this matter.

2) For purposes of this discussion, I do consider it a certainty that the treatment will not fix the pain the baby's suffering, on the basis of literally no one involved is even speculating that it possibly could, including the doctor offering the treatment.

3) Because we've long given the government the right to curtail a parent's agency over their children, if they're guardianship is detrimental to their welfare. This is the same dynamic, except this time it's not neglect of active abuse that will work against the child's interest, but their attempts to prolong his life. It's the same principle being applied to a unique and unprecedented scenario. If the parents were trying to subject a healthy baby to constant unremitting torture, no one would be questioning whether the government has the right to stop them. But because the parents want their unhealthy baby to linger in pain for an undefined period of time as long as it gets to live, everybody is getting all emotional and claiming they have to do it on the basis of sweeping abstract principles.

>>132291364
>Parents raise 1mil+ on their own to ship him over to the United States and give him a chance at life
That only covers one week in the ICU. What then? Capitalism kicks him to the curb?

>>132304268

If the NHS announced tomorrow that you received the care they mandated, nothing else, and you were not allowed to leave for other treatments and the courts upheld it, what would you do?

>>132303719
>I think the doctors and courts may be making a better call due to their emotional distance from the matter.

But the issue isn't what the right call is, it's who gets to make that call. Do you think the parents don't have their child's interest at heart, here? Are they SO horribly wrong, beyond ALL doubt, that they lose the right to decide?

>>132292631
He is on damage control, there is some kind of committee in the vatican about life the discuss abortions, and the pope changed some rules and appointed some new people into it and the guy he appointed gave out note in support of the court decision so there was huge backlash.

>>132300861
Demand justice from your queen, then? Otherwise take a lesson from us in 1776.

>>132303719

As to your first paragraph, we're just at an impasse. Yes, this kid is fucked. But I disagree that the government knows better than the parents. The parents may be making the wrong decision, or maybe the government is the one making the wrong decision. But the fact of the matter is, the kid is more important to the parents than to the government. As such, the government should take a backseat on this one.

And to repeat -- that's because this is a case of the government forbidding treatment. Not the government imposing treatment or punishing the parents for denying treatment. That's the difference. If this were a case of the government forcing the parents to give the kid antibiotics because he's dying of some easily treatable bacterial infection, I'd be on board. But this is a different ball of wax.

>slippery slope fallacy

Not actually a fallacy in all occasions. But I don't blame you for falling asleep in high school debate. To say that this is a slippery slope is to say that the government doesn't always to expand its own power when given a modicum of it. To say that would be certifiably and historically inaccurate. And you know it.

And no, every government has not always had the ability to decide who lives and who dies because if it tries to pull this shit in America, literally killing someone without due process rights, people will start killing the government back.

Your final point -- of course it can be abused. Everything can be abused. That doesn't mean it should be taken away. The government is much more likely to abuse its power to decide which children die than are the parents of those same children.

>>132304470
So that incredibly remote change they're wrong strips them of all authority to act?

You know, when a doctor declares someone dead there's a chance they're wrong. So to avoid burying people alive we should just leave corpses lying wherever they fall, unburied, forever, right? Doctors, morticians, and gravediggers aren't God; they should be prevented from acting on the off chance they're wrong and would be burying someone alive, right?

>>132303719
>And if parents are given total, unilateral, unassailable control of their childrens' welfare that can never be circumvented, no matter how clearly irresponsibly they're using it, you don't think that can be abused?

I think if you have to allow possibility of abuse one way or the other - either abuse of parental control or abuse of judicial power, it's better to lean toward the rights of individuals rather than authorities.

>>132293774
Fuck off back to Poland.

>>132304948
>fukk wrong thread
>>132303386
See
>>132304948

>>132293885
>Look at the parents
Fuck it. Shoot the baby AND the parents!

>>132304773

The dollarydoos are for the treatment. The doctor has his own practice so I assume the kid wouldn't be in the ICU.

>>132300861
You know you have the same system in America.

If the Supreme Court outlawed an action as unconstitutional then there would be no difference.

>>132304153

No, you missed it fucktard. This is the government literally telling people "you are not allowed to seek medical treatment for your child." If that doesn't offend your sense of right, you must be european on vacation.

To refute your points:

1) Treatment. And "professionally acknowledged" is worthless. For decades frontal lobotomized were "professionally acknowledged" to be legitimate cures for such ailments as "willfullness."
2) Did they? And how do they know? This is an experimental treatment that hasn't been tried before. For all they know, this injection could cause the kid to grow a giant floppy dong. They don't know how it'll impact his pain, assuming he even feels any.
3) "most nations" is irrelevant here. Also, "human rights" are a made up concept that we have to defend vigorously from governments who want to decide who gets to seek medical treatment.

>the government to step
What?

>>132304227
>>132304413

Couldn't have said it better, Bruce.

>>132304274
Fuck off, Spictor McSpiccy

File: an_hero_hmmm.jpg (9KB, 250x186px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 250x186px

>>132291364
>Parents raise 1mil+
>to ship him over to the United States

why not just smother him and be done with it?

>>132293297

Keked and absolutely underrated

>>132305050

Well in human history people were so afraid of being wrongly declared dead they had bells to ring from the grave, just in case. I don't think I'd have bothered, but I wouldn't have been happy if I was ORDERED not to do it.
And if one doctor tells me they might be able to help in some minor way, with low odds of doing anything useful, I belive it's my right to go to that doctor, and a judge does not have the authority to stop me. There's not much I should have to prove to him.

Every doctor says there's a 0% chance of saving the baby. ONE doctor in the US has a treatment that kinda worked in mice like 20% of the time but basically admitted that it has never worked on humans with this particular condition and that he wants to research how the baby responds, aka he gets a free human trial and does not expect the infant to survive. The parents interpreted it as the doctor being 100% able to save the baby when in truth it's been a braindead vegetable since birth. They will keep it alive and suffering from intubation and whatever else indefinitely.

File: Al_Bundy.jpg (15KB, 488x349px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 488x349px

>>132304527

1) No expert called it "torture." And if they did, they're playing to emotions, not definitions
2) No, nobody involved is speculating that he would make a full recovery. I have seen nothing except idiots on this board talking about the treatment definitely not reversing any pain the kid may be in. Also, "experimental treatment." They don't know what it will do. It could be the next fucking viagra or that drug from that Bradley Cooper movie as a side effect.
3) This is not the same dymanic. The same dymanic would be if the state were forcing the parents to make the kid get treatment. This is doctors deciding that the kid is in pain and that nothing, not even this experimental treatment, will save him, so the state is letting the kid die without trying the experimental treatment.

>NHS is overburdened. Better kill this this kid to save money and say it's for humane reasons. Wait, they want to take this kid using their own shek-- i mean, money, to the U.S.? No no no, if we say yes then they'll know we decided to kill it to save money! We have to prevent it from happening!

Literally what's happening.

>>132304797
Seriously? You think that's a reasonable position for a medical and legal system to take? I'd have to either campaign against it in the hope public support would help change the system, or break the law, or both.

>>132306091

So you'd take it like a bitch because your government literally gets to decide who lives and dies?

>>132305050

>deciding the chances the doctors are wrong are incredibly remote

>Of course I'm sure your disease is caused by bad smells in the air. No, you shouldn't wash your hands after falling in the shit-clogged gutters on Renaissance Florence, that will wash away your protective layer of dirt!

>>132294912
>human rights
ha ha ha ha

>>132305419

Except in America the government doesn't have authority to do whatever it wants. It is strictly limited by the Constitution. And the Supreme Court can't hear a case at all unless it touches on one of those powers.

>>132291788
>>132291364

>Spending this amount of money on a list cause

And this is why our health care is fucked. These 5%ers draining the system to get a shot at an extended shit-tier quality of life. People were meant to die, not live ever increasing life spans and getting infinite benefits off of the rest of society.

>>132304204
Summary: Parents are wrong.
Not the issue. Any opinion on the courts?

>>132291788
>Doctor in USA has experimental treatment that may save baby
No, he doesn't.

If you're going to make an argument, at least don't base it on lies that have been completely ripped apart by medical experts in the European Court of Human Rights.

File: beforeafter.jpg (40KB, 600x360px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 600x360px

>>132305644

Whew lad, that was actually almost some good banter.

Stick around and you'll get the hang of it. I believe in you!

Be forewarned, though. You might just pic related after you realize your employer was wrong. You don't change /pol/. /pol/ changes you.

File: 1497898839153.png (264KB, 586x586px) Image search: [Google]

264KB, 586x586px

>>132291364

It's because the baby is white. If it were some little shitskin nigger with a minor illness they would spread cheeks for them to use every resource of the state.

>>132295233
lol fuck the Britbong courts

Fly that little fucker to the states.

What are the Britbongs gonna do? Scowl at you with their crooked yellow teeth?

>>132304227

They know that where option A is 'fucked' and option B is 'also fucked' that their option is SO much better that the difference is enough to take away the usual parental choice? It's really THAT preferable?

File: 1497063598994.png (367KB, 512x643px) Image search: [Google]

367KB, 512x643px

>>132306553

>European Court of Human Rights
>expert in medicine
>expert in what medicine can currently do
>expert in what medicine may do in the future
>expert in the possible effects of new experimental medicine that hasn't been tested on humans
>not some bullshit started by communists to destroy individual liberties and make Europe an easier pawn for the USSR

>being this subservient to authority

>>132306553

Relying on the ECHR, holy crap (((they))) really have your balls nigger.

>>132291364

I thought we were supposed to be the ones with death panels?

WTF

File: fascist.png (1MB, 1156x1385px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1156x1385px

>>132306553
This is the kind of brainwashing you can achieve through critical theory. Throw away science, research and logic. Don't bother with reason or understanding. Some gov't-approved expert is ordained to decide what you're allowed to know, and trust us when we say they know best.
>>132306894
kek

>>132307309
No, ours are death "squads"

>>132304527

You put 100% faith in doctors and experts? Absolute certainty? Even if you do, good for you. Does that mean that EVERYONE should be made to do so? No, clearly not. I'd also dispute that deciding a tiny chance of any kind of positive outcome, in a case of life and death, is worth a shot at must automatically be an emotional rather than rational decision.

>>132306219

What? Are you taking exactly the opposite meaning from my posts? Breaking the law would be taking it like a bitch from the government???

>>132307985

>protest it
>maybe break the law

Nah, you'd bitch about it and take it lying down.

>>132306894
>>expert in medicine
No, they bring in the experts in medicine you testify, you cock-swallowing dumbass.

>>132307465
>teenagers on an anonymous internet board who have never studied medicine or law are more capable of reaching informed decisions on medico-legal matters than experts in medicine or law
I'm not buying it.

>>132307689
>Does that mean that EVERYONE should be made to do so? No, clearly not.
Sorry mate, that's how this little thing called democracy works. Courts come to decisions based on their legal expertise, informed by medical experts.

>>132308116
"I'd have to" =/= "maybe".
Think you're trolling now, so leave it there.

File: 1498351727278.gif (2MB, 320x200px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 320x200px

>>132308235

But who determines the "experts" are qualified experts, tardfucker?

Is it the court? Is it? Could it be?

The same court that decides that these "experts" know more than other doctors who for some reason are not "experts"?

File: 1498971436760.jpg (257KB, 968x1998px) Image search: [Google]

257KB, 968x1998px

>>132308235

>implying that's how democracy works
>implying you're not a retard

>>132308627
>But who determines the "experts" are qualified experts, tardfucker?
The broad consensus of their peers, based off their performance in examinations, professional experience, academic achievements, and membership in professional organizations. Y'know, the same way expertise in one field or another has been measured for centuries.

The fact that you don't know this is a red flag to me.

>Is it the court? Is it? Could it be?
The court does not rule on who is an expert versus who is not an expert.

File: 1498342673310.png (146KB, 370x320px) Image search: [Google]

146KB, 370x320px

>>132304227
I fucking hate statists, honestly.

>>132308836
>any law in the US cannot be instantly struck down in five men in Washington decide that it is unconstitutional
Yeah, I think that is how it works.

>>132308864
>I fucking hate statists, honestly.
Can you refute his point? That the parents are so distraught at the thought of their child's imminent death that they refuse to accept its inevitability, instead preferring to keep their suffering child alive through machines, prolonging his agony day after day when there is zero hope of a cure?

Please rebut his argument.

>>132308595

How would you break the law? Would you do anything meaningful or would you just try to leave the country and get tossed in prison?

The point is that even if there were some token martyrs the UK wo ukd keep chugging right over the Venezuelan cliff.

For what it is worth, the USA has taken custody of perfectly healthy children for plenty of arbitrary reasons.

And sometimes, a lot more of them die than the number of babies with this disease.

>>132309287
>And sometimes, a lot more of them die than the number of babies with this disease.
Really? More than 100% of them die? Could you explain how that works?

>>132309062
He was just pointing out the fact that he actualy cannot.
Lurk more, you seem to misunderstand /pol/.

>>132308235

So you do have absolut, unshakable faith in doctors and experts? And you're here posting on a board that's constantly decrying climate change as liberal propaganda?

File: 1498526703669.jpg (122KB, 800x800px) Image search: [Google]

122KB, 800x800px

>>132309062
Fine then, if the baby's brain is as damaged as the state says he is, then that would mean that it has absolutely no self-awareness and therefore nothing more than an insect in the eyes of the state. Would the state arrest you for stepping on an ant with no self-awareness or capability of advanced brain function required for pain? If they have the money and the means for a treatment that may give them at least a chance, then they should have the freedom to do whatever they want to try to cure the disease. It's not the UK's decision on the life of THE PARENTS' child. It's not the state's child.

>>132309465
>So you do have absolut, unshakable faith in doctors and experts?
Nope, I have unshakable faith in no human or human institution. However, there is no reason whatsoever to doubt the quality and accuracy of the medical testimony given in this case. Do you have any reason to doubt it? If so, please explain so I can understand too.

>and you're here posting on a board that's constantly decrying climate change as liberal propaganda?
Yes, I find it odd too.

>>132305028
Burger here is correct 100%.
Maybe its because >>132303719 doesnt have children but its really scary to think that the government would be able to decide when to turn off the machine on my daughter if she ever would get sick.
They even raised the money themself so they dont abuse the tax payer.

I really hate that in liberal countries they totally strip parents of any responsiblity.
Best just give the child to daycare from day1 and let schools and government decide everything.

File: 6277203+_8afe4d18fc48e444ca7a62070a1ffdf0.jpg (39KB, 300x444px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 300x444px

>>132301951
>it's up to the guardians
>but we didn't like their decision so veto
>mfw guardians had no real choice at all

Disgusting.

>>132308842

That's not how authentication of expert testimony works in court, you fucking moron.

And yes, the court exactly determines who is an expert.

Not only is that the case in every jursidiction (and definitely in every single jurisdiction in America, so I know for a fact you have no legal background, you cockfag), it is specifically supported by European Court of Human Rights Rules of Court Rule A1 -- according to that rule, the court may decide to hear a person as a witness or an expert. So it decides who is the expert.

Then see also Rule A7, where the court determines whether an expert is an expert in the event that someone objects to that person being an expert.

You're an idiot.

>>132309603
>Fine then, if the baby's brain is as damaged as the state says he is, then that would mean that it has absolutely no self-awareness and therefore nothing more than an insect in the eyes of the state.
Nah mate. Come back when you understand the legal nature of personhood, and the rights that a person attains under the law.

>seriously believing a person has the same legal rights as an ant
On second thoughts, don't bother coming back.

>It's not the UK's decision on the life of THE PARENTS' child. It's not the state's child.
Actually, under UK law, it is the state's decision because the parents have proven themselves incapable of acting in the child's best interests.

File: 31450B-700x.jpg (75KB, 700x453px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 700x453px

>>132308235
>You're stupid. You wouldn't understand! They know better than us, so let's just keep sucking their cocks and let them kill our babies!
Good argument.
>You aren't authorized by The Government to decide the fate of your own child because you don't have the right kind of degree.
Also a good argument.
>You can't even into democracy. Ha! In a democracy, medical experts tell the courts whether or not there's a The Government approved treatment for your dying kid. You don't get to decide whether to keep your own child alive unless you get a Medical Expert degree.
Seems pretty sound. Do the experts agree with this analysis?

>>132291364
Liberals only understand politics when put you put them into pop culture references so hit them with the ol' Walking Dead season one finale.

"That's... That's all we want... A choice, a chance. Let us keep trying as long as we can."

>>132308932

No it's not. You have no understanding of how Constitutionality is determined. The Supreme Court can't even hear a case if it's not a federal issue.

Did they teach civics or government where you went to school? Or did they try to keep that from you, too, so you'd be easier to control?

>>132309603
Its the queens private private property though

White genocide, amirite lads? Le Dagnald Drumfggggffff.

>>132309062

I don't know how rational the parents are being in this particular case, not seen them interviewed, but I find it very odd that going for the long, long, loooooooooong shot in a matter of life and death can be written off as clearly, undoubtedly irrational.

>>132309768
Great - you're not disputing that the medical experts called in this case were not, in fact, the experts they were. We're pretty much in agreement then.

>>132309810
>same legal rights as an ant
I said that the child has the same mental capacity as an ant IF the damage to said child's brain is as bad as the state says it is.
Not only the treatment, but what right does the state have to say that they should not be allowed to at least have the baby die with them, in their home rather than in a hospital?

>>132309842

I literally chuckled out loud. Have you (You)

File: 1423281713182.jpg (31KB, 638x638px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 638x638px

>>132301370
>Courts aren't government

>>132295374
Edgy faggot or not, this is true. However, this is not the argument. The question is not wether or not it is worth trying to save this kid, but instead wether or not the government shiuld be able to tell you if you can or cannot try to save the kid. And the answer to that is OBJECTIVLEY NO. There is absolutley no reason why the government should be able to forbid a human being from being able to seek treatment

If you have a birth certificate, you're literally property of the state.

>>132309659

Well, I think there's often reason to have some doubt in experts, and when you're all out of options it's the only chance you've got. There's surely no need to explain that.

>>132309968

Are you having a giggle?

I'm not saying they weren't accepted as experts by the court. I'm saying that the court decided they were experts. The same court that decided their knowledge is sufficient to determine that this kid is not allowed to seek treatment, and the same court that decided that these experts EVIDENTLY know everything about what medicine can do, including this experimental medicine that nobody knows what it can do.

Do you not see how that's not trustworthy?

>>132309842
>Good argument.
Please point to the exact post I used the words you quoted. Thanks.
>Also a good argument.
>The last greentext point
Ditto my first line. Thanks.

>>132309928
>No it's not.
Cool. Can you give me some example of unconstitutional laws that the Supreme Court was unable to strike down because they weren't "federal issues"?

>>132309965
>I find it very odd that going for the long, long, loooooooooong shot in a matter of life and death can be written off as clearly, undoubtedly irrational.
If it were an adult nobody would care. If it's a child, unable to act for itself, in artificially prolonged agony, every day chasing the next quack fake therapy is actively causing suffering.

>>132310097
>I said that the child has the same mental capacity as an ant
How do you objectively measure the mental capacity of an ant?
>what right does the state have to say that they should not be allowed to at least have the baby die with them, in their home rather than in a hospital?
You tell me. Can you point to the part of the legal decision that describes that restriction?

>>132310246

Maybe in The Vatican.

>>132310246
hardest red pill to swallow
common law trumps statutes and acts
and we're in a very fucked state of affairs that the majority of people have no idea of, no idea of the amount of freedom we have lost through apathy

>>132310312
>Can you point to the part of the legal decision that describes that restriction?
Obviously, you haven't looked very far into this decision.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4653894/Outpouring-grief-worldwide-Baby-Charlie-Gard.html#ixzz4lVxYLVLh
>But doctors have refused their 'final wish' to take Charlie home to pass away

>>132310295
>There's surely no need to explain that.
No need, unless you're forcing someone you're supposed to be caring for to go through a pointless, agonizing existence on life support to attend a treatment that has no biological chance of curing the condition.

In that case, the state has the right to say "no. You can't torture your child like this."

>>132310301
>I'm saying that the court decided they were experts.
But what's the problem if they are in fact experts? Why do you feel they're not experts?

>Do you not see how that's not trustworthy?
I'm not paranoid, and have medical training, so no. It seems to me the most robust and impartial way of doing things in this imperfect world.

>>132309810
>parents have proven themselves incapable of acting in the child's best interests.

So the court is right because...the court has decided it's right.
Impossible to ever question a decision, then.

>>132310483
Yeah, I asked you about the legal decision. You claimed the courts are stopping the parents from taking the baby home to die. Are you retracting that statement, and instead saying the doctors caring for him believe that is the wrong choice?

>>132306553
"I am fine with the state having more rights over my child than I (parents) do"

t. swan song of a terminally ill society

>>132310312

>Can you give me some laws the Supreme Court wasn't able to strike down because they weren't federal issues

What you just asked was "can you give me a list of all the cases the Supreme Court has heard that were rejected for lack of jurisdiction?" No, I can't, because I'm neither Lexis-Nexis nor Thompson-Reuters.

But a good place to start would be Article III of the Constitution. Then Rhode Island v. Massechussetts. And Joyce v. US. And if you're really in for a laugh, Bradshaw v. Unity Marine, even though it's not a SCOTUS case but rather a lower federal case.

You really should at least study a little bit of what you're talking about.

>>132310574
>So the court is right because...the court has decided it's right.
Isn't that how English law works? Correct me if I'm wrong.

>making this big of a fuss over a babby that's already dead
If that ain't some turbo virtue signaling then I don't know what is.

>>132310640
>You really should at least study a little bit of what you're talking about.
I will if you will.

>>132310721
Nigga put the keyboard down, you're getting blown out here

>>132310509

My concern is that being experts doesn't mean they're infallible. And that them being experts in medicine doesn't make them experts in this disease. And them being experts in this disease doesn't make them experts in this experimental treatment they can't know about.

What they're saying is "we know better than this experimental treatment, therefore this kid should be prohibited from trying the experimental treatment."

That's beyond their scope of expertise and the court sided with them improperly.

>the most impartial way of doing things

Why. The FUCK. Should a decision based on whose child lives or dies be made impartially? Are we fucking communists? Does everyone have an inherent worth that can be determined by the state and ruled on ignoring that person's subjective worth to those around him?

>>132310616
>But earlier this week they reached the very end of their legal battle after the European Court of Human Rights backed British doctors who said it would be kinder to let the ten month old die.

Obviously the courts and the doctors are acting as one unit here, numbnuts. Stop arguing semantics.

File: freggysumo.jpg (101KB, 540x798px) Image search: [Google]

101KB, 540x798px

>>132310721

Nigger I'm a lawyer.

>>132310841

Thanks, ese.

>>132310687

>German
>Not understanding the threats of an overreaching government bureaucracy

Are you guys genetically incapable of seeing threats from the government? Or are you actively striving towards this?

>>132310312
>If it were an adult nobody would care

Well obviously if it were an adult no court would be saying that they could be denied treatment they were asking for*, and paying for. Generally the adult still gets to decide for the child.

*although they have no problem denying adults who are constantly suffering the requested 'treatment' that would end their pain.

File: done.png (34KB, 126x155px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 126x155px

>>132310975
Obviously that anon you're arguing with is more qualified than an actual lawyer. You can tell because of his Reddit spacing and autistic need to reply to literally everyone.