Zoroastrianism

>>132249550
Based on my understanding of it, It started out with the enlightened concept that evil was simply the lack of following ahura mazda's plan, but later they developed a 'evil' diety/force to oppose him.

Id say at that point it become a write off.

>>132249550
If Iran didn't let itself get cucked by Arabs it will be a great country today and Zoroastrianism would be a great religion.

>>132249550
Why the need to belong to a particular religious cult/group/org ?
There's only one true God and you can talk to God any time you want. Why the need to have others? Afraid to go one on one? Need the trappings? Need to be told what to believe?

>>132249790
How is this any different than God/Satan in the Semitic faiths? They were lifted directly from Zarathustra
The Messiah figure was lifted directly from Zarathustra (Shaosyant)

One can argue that Judaism itself was a
rip off of Zoroastrianism that the Jews took with them from their time in Persia

Since the Jews are massive hacks and rip-off artists it makes sense that they would have appropriated an entire religion and then say they came up with it first

>>132249826
Persia's mistake was freeing the Jewish slaves of Babylon and bringing them to Persepolis. The decay set in Early and by the Sassanid Era the cancer was inoperable. They became weak and decadent, their people began to follow heretics like Mani and Gnostic priests.

Incest was a problem. Their upper leadership became too inbred and soft to deal with the shifting tides. The Arabs steamrolled them.

Because it doesn't allow converts you stupid fuck. Take the flag off, I GUARANTEE you are a dumbfuck American.

>>132250519
How do I talk to God though? I've tried but it didn't really seem to work.

>>132251009
>dumbfuck american
>calling me a dumbfuck american
What did he mean by this?

Also while the religion officially does not allow coverts that diesnt mean you cant still practice it.

Only the Shaoshyant has the power to make new converts, we may still follow the ways of Zarathustra and worship Ahura Mazda while we wait for Him to appear

Piss off, Angra Mainyu

>>132250526
>How is this any different
It isn't, so there is no reason to convert.

Its a meme religion nowadays anyway. According to their own beliefs, most of their religious texts have been lost due to the Greeks, and their religion is therefore incomplete.

It just seems like one step away from neo-pagan LARPing, though at least the Zoroastrians have their Gathas to go on.

>>132252275
The reason is that Zoroastrianism is the true religion, the original Monotheistic faith of the Aryan people

Zoroastrianism should have been the religion of white people. It is part of our anciebt heritage and is essentially Christianity without the cucked Semitic elements

It is Christianity without Jews
Without Z, Xtianity would have never existed

>>132252792
WE WUZ PERSIANS N SHIEEET
Europeans aren't Aryan no matter how much you want to believe it.

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>>132253042

>>132249550
All religion is cancer.

Fedora tipping images are not an argument.

>>132253730
>Posts picture of migrations taking place thousands of years prior to Zoroastrianism
WE WUZ ZOROASTRIANS

>>132253784
Atheism is the second most jewish religion behind Judaism

>>132254130
Lel. This niggas right.

>>132249550

In Zoroastrianism you can't convert, you can only be born into a zoroastrian family

There are some liberal hippie types in the west trying to change it, but Orthodoxy doesn't permit it.

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>>132249550
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn3MKPyBe8Y

NON-CHRISTIAN EUROPEANS ARE RACE TRAITORS

RACE TRAITORS
A
C
E

T
R
A
I
T
O
R
S

>>132250526
Because there is no retarded gnostic dualism. Satan (the opponent) is a lone rebel with no actual power but to tempt us.

Does it have sacred text or is it all just oral stories? Gib quick rundown

>>132253730
>tiny group of people from the caucus migrate and mix with an entire continent
>suddenly WE WUZ ARYANS N SHIEET
If your DNA is from Europe and not central/west Asia you're not Aryan.

>>132254312
That's nice. I'm not an atheist btw. If you must know I believe in my own "version" of God but do not worship or practice any religion.

>>132251009
Chill dude.

>>132254808
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Why are muslims so retarded?

>>132255283
>makes fun of blacks for we wuzzing
>does the same thing himself
How does it feel to be as dumb as a nigger?

>>132254783
The Avesta is the sacred text of Zarathustra

Here is a pdf of an English translation
http://www.avesta.org/kanga/ka_english_kanga_epub.pdf

Basically the point of Zoroastrianism is to purge Angra Manyu'a darkness from the self and replace it with Ahura Mazda's light

>there is one god, Ahura Mazda, who represents all that is good
>there is another force, Angra Manyu, who is not as powerful as Ahura Mazda but his influence on this world is the same
>there is a constant battle between Ahura and Angra in the heavens as well as in the human soul
>Ahura Mazda gave humans free will, unlike God in the bible. Angra Manyu tempted man to abuse it, leading to the creation if Evil
>a messiah, the Shaoshyant will appear who is 100% good and will overthrow Angra's influence on this world, leading to an era of unprecedented human enlightenment

>>132249550
>>Judaism is Zoroastrianism II: Electric Boogaloo

This is based on pure speculation.

>>132255420
How does it feel to actually be a nigger?

>>132254783
The basic moral principles that guide the life of a Zoroastrian are three
>Humata, “Good Thoughts,” the intention or moral resolution to abide by Asha, the right order of things.
>Hukhata, “Good Words,” the communication of that intention.
>Havarashta, “Good Deeds,” the realization in action of that intention.

>>132256336
No it isnt. The Avesta was written down centuries before the first Judaic scriptures were written

Jews spent a long time in captivity furst in Babylon and then in Persia, before Cyrus the Great freed them. It is no mere coincidence that the two religions are so similar.

Read the Zoroastrian origin story i posted in the Avesta pdf >>132256152

Genesis and the Zoroastrian origin are nearly identical EXCEPT for the nature of free will

Jews hate free will so they rationalized it as a rebellion against God

Zoroastrians see it as a necessary step to enlightenment, only the person myst CHOOSE to follow the light and forgoe the darkness in order to reach salvation

>>132251009
Yes it does. You're thinking of the corrupted version of the religion by the poo in the loos who got influenced by the caste system. Actual Iranian zoroastrians accept converts.

>>132250526
Jewish mysticism is quite interesting and points directly to the idea that they ripped off esoteric knowledge and earlier religions. So yes, they ripped off Zoroastrianism, but thats not all.

>>132250526
>>132257738

>It is certainly true that Zoroaster spoke of such things as “… the coming of a savior and the resurrection of the body,” etc. (Ibid., 44). But he may have borrowed these ideas from the Jewish captives in Babylon. Indeed, it appears that all of these ideas can be found in the Jewish Scriptures PRIOR to the Babylonian Captivity.

For instance, even if we grant the contention of the person who wrote the web article you referred me to, that Isaiah offers the first, full monotheistic conception of God (e.g. Isaiah 43:10-13), it by no means follows that Isaiah borrowed this conception from Zoroastrianism! Indeed, Isaiah wrote his book BEFORE Zoroaster was even born! The period in which Isaiah was writing was roughly that of 740-680 B.C. Thus, if there was any borrowing, it was Zoroaster borrowing from Isaiah–not vice-versa. Besides this, LaSor argues that Zoroaster was not a true monotheist anyway, but a polytheist. At most he was a dualist: “He exalted Ahura Mazda…as supreme among the gods…and viewed the world as an agelong struggle between Ahura Mazda and Angra Mainyu” (Ibid., 1202).

https://probe.org/did-christianity-really-come-from-zoroastrianism/

>>132257403
This guy gets it

There is nothing in the Avesta that prohibits conversion.

Gujaratis wanted to create a cult among themselves to protect themselves from Hindu and Islamic corruption but they made the rules too difficult to follow so the religion has dwindled

In Gujarat you cannot be a Zoroastrian unless both your mother and father are Zoroastrians

Iranians accept any who wish to follow the light, as they should

>WE WUZ ARYUNS N SHIT
fuck off stormniggers they don't want to be associated with you

>Let us consider some facts about Zoroastrianism and its scripture. First of all, the earliest writing down of the scripture of Zoroastrianism was in the fourth century AD (yes, AD). The oldest manuscript we have of the Avesta–the principle scripture of Zoroastrianism–is from the fourteenth century AD. Most of the claimed parallels between Jesus and Zoroaster are not found at all in the Avesta. The few which are can more easily be explained as coincidence (in other words, different religions will sometimes have similar characteristics) or because of borrowing from Christianity into Zoroastrianism, rather than the reverse, because the Christian scripture predates the Zoroastrian scripture. As for parallels, there is an idea of bodily resurrection in Zoroastrianism. Whether this was included in the religion before the time of Christ is hard to say, but what we can say is that, in any case, the Avesta does not claim that Zoroaster himself was resurrected from the dead. So much for the parallel between Jesus and Zoroaster and for the idea that the church got the idea of the resurrection from the Avesta. Other parallels have been claimed by Jesus-Mythers. They claim that Zoroaster was baptized in a river. There is no mention of this in any Zoroastrian scripture. They claim that his was a virgin birth. The Avesta refers to a “kingly glory” that was inherited by Zoroaster through is mother, but it is hard to see this as equivalent to a virgin birth. Another claim is that Zoroaster, like Jesus, was tempted by Satan in the wilderness. There is perhaps some parallel here, as Zoroaster was tempted for ten years (rather than forty days) by a sub-demon named J. Buiti, not by the Zoroastrian equivalent of Satan (who, by the way is not equivalent to Satan, but who is equal to Ahura Mazda in power).

http://evidenceforchristianity.org/does-zoroastrianism-predate-christianity-and-is-the-idea-that-christianity-borrowed-the-resurrection-of-jesus-from-the-religion-believable/

>>132256152
>>132256436
Nice thanks

>>132257997
Well, thats all good and well except Isaiah refers to Cyrus, which would've lived during early 500BCE, which would've been after the supposed dates that Isaiah was writing.

Who's to say Isaiah's book was really written when they say it was.

>ISAIAH 44:28 - Who is saying of Cyrus, My shepherd, And all my delight He doth perfect, So as to say of Jerusalem, Thou art built, And of the temple, Thou art founded.

>ISAIAH 45:1 - Thus said Jehovah, To His anointed, to Cyrus, Whose right hand I have laid hold on, To subdue nations before him, Yea, loins of kings I loose, To open before him two-leaved doors, Yea, gates are not shut:

>>132257997
Very intesting point

We shouldnt take the veracity of Isaiah's texts for granted however

The Hebrew Scriptures, including the Torah abd the booksof Isaiah, Daniel, abd Kings were compiled and edited after the building of the second temple, so 6th-5th century BCE

While we have found excerpts of the book of Isaiah dating from the 6th century BC, the Avesta still pre dates this by about 500 years.

However take this with a grain of salt

What we know of the Avesta now comes mostly from a Sassanian era master copy. We have no way of telling how much this was edited either, although we have found excerpts from older versions pre-dating the Torah

I suppose i can admit that when you get down to it you really cant prove which religion came first, or if in fact they borrowed equally from each other

>>132259549
Maybe it all comes back to the "collective conscious" idea. It might not be crazy to assume that that they were developing similar religions separate from each other around the same time. Probably not likely though.

>>132258262
This is bullshit because no where in the Avesta dies Zoroaster attempt to act as a messianic figure, as Jesus did

Zoroaster was a priest and a prophet, no savior

While the majority of the Avesta as we know it comes from a Sassanian copy (5th, 6th century AD) Herodotus mentions the religion in the Histories dating back to 440 BC when it was already the state religion of Achaemenid Persia. This was right around the time when the Second Temple was being built and when Judaism was being codified into an organized faith. Fire temples have been found in Iran pre-dating the Achaemenids or any known Jewish religious structures. The Archaeological record supports the theory that as an organized religion with rites and a religious scripture, Zoroastrianism has existed as far back as the 6th century BC

If you need sources i am happy to get them for you but it will take a while because i am a phoneposting degenerate.

>>132259549

If I might add my absolutely un-educated opinion here:

People really really shouldn't argue about whose faith was there earlier or which scripture was put together earlier.
Especially when it comes to scriptures that are supposed to be older than 2000 years.
After all, you can never be sure unless you were there. That just leads to bullshit arguments dividing brothers, and as consequence of that: whole societies.

What matter is which faith - or better: which principles - people adopt. Because at the end of every truly virtuous path lies awakening.

>>132259850
Not likely IMO considering they were relatively close to eacother and the fact that the Jews lived in Iran for at least a century

>>132249550
You can't, they literally do not accept converts at all, you have to be born zoroastrianism

>>132260955
I 100% agree with this sentiment. There really is no way of knowing for sure and the religions should be judged i stead by their merits

I am drawn to Zoroastrianism because it glorifies free will and the pursuit of knowledge, two things which the Semituc religions vilify, and yet like Christianity it glorifies asceticism and moral purity

I also am drawn to the explaination of darkness as an equal force to light. The conflict and balance between the two is what creates suffering and is where the temporal realm lies

Perhaps this is more gnosticism than Zoroastrianism however. I am not sure. A lot of details to be worked out.

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The only true religion is Ugroks Grokthrokianism

>>132261576
That is the version practiced by the poo in loos. Only reason why it is mainstream Zoroastrianism now is because the Iranian version is nearly extinct from Islamic surpression

No where in the Avesta is there anything prohibiting conversion. Many non iranians converted in Antiquity,including Babylonians, Assyrians, and even various Steppe peoples. Shrines to Ahura Mazda have been found far from Iran

>>132262176
I did not know that, thank you for telling me

>>132259223

And? Isaiah was a prophetic book. Foreknowledge is to be expected. And claims of multiple authorship all rest on naturalistic assumptions.

https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/isaiah-and-prophets-inspired-voices-old-testament/scientific-analysis-isaiah-authorship

http://thinktheology.co.uk/blog/article/were_there_two_different_isaiahs
http://www.toughquestionsanswered.org/2016/04/22/was-the-book-of-isaiah-written-by-the-prophet-isaiah/

>>132259549
>The Hebrew Scriptures, including the Torah abd the booksof Isaiah, Daniel, abd Kings were compiled and edited after the building of the second temple, so 6th-5th century BCE

Again, any influence has been overstated and unsubstantiated by scholars, and is based on superficial observations. And we have proof that suggests an earlier date for the composition of the Bible.

https://pjmedia.com/faith/2016/04/13/new-evidence-suggests-old-testament-is-older-than-skeptics-think/2/

http://evidenceforchristianity.org/is-the-old-testament-plagiarized-from-the-zoroastrian-scripturesr/

>>132254312
Agnostic here. Can you just fuck off with that?

>>132262591
Dont take my word for it. Read here.
>>132256152

Nothing about conversation is written in the actual scriptures. The decision to not allow new converts was made by the priestly hierarchy. Probably as a precaution to prevent the muslims from killing more of them because of apostasy laws

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>>132249550
Zoroastrians are the last of the Persian devil worshipers.

>-t. HP Lovecraft

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>>132249550
I, as a fucking white male, don't follow any desert religions. That's why.

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>>132249550
>Why arent you a Zoroastrian /pol/?

Because Hinduism has a deeper and more complete link to the primordial metaphysical tradition that Hinduism and Zoroastrianism both come from.

Unfortunately, due to historical circumstances, Muslims, Mongols etc much Zoroastrian knowledge and texts have been lost which isn't nearly the case as much with Hinduism.

There is only a comparatively small corpus of ancient Zoroastrian literature that survives to this day and there are very little practicing Zoroastrians.

Meanwhile with Hinduism you have what is essentially the magnum opus of Aryan culture in the Rig-Veda, as well as an interconnected series of texts that get deeper and more profound the more you progress through them in the Upanishads, Brahma-Sutras, Bhagavad-Gita and the major Vedanta commentaries.

>>132262720
>evidenceforchristianity.com
>cites no sources in article
Am i supposed to take your sources for granted? They are obviously biased and point to no scholarly articles or archaeological findings

As ive said before if you read my earlier posts, I came to the conclusion after discussing with >>132260955 and
>>132259850
That there really is no way to prove whether Judaism predates Zoroastrianism or vice versa because of the problems you run into when studying 2500 year old texts.

It seems as if, as a devout christian yourself, youve chosen to defend your faith at all costs without actually contributing to the discussion.

I am willing to hear you out on theological/philosophical arguments for why we should worship Yahweh and not Ahura Mazda, but the ship for historical arguments has long since sailed

>>132264183
I know very little of Hindu theology (probably because i have a particular distaste for Indians and Indian culture)

Could you give me the quick rundown on why i should convert? What advantages does it have over Christianity, Zoroastrianism, Atheism?

>>132249550

I like Zorro

>>132263661
And yet you follow a faith based on oral tradition with almost no philosophical merits

What has paganism accomplished besides creating a warrior culture to be tamed by the admittedly vastly superior faith of Christianity?

Monotheism is a universalist faggotry for weaklings.

>>132264183
lol @ Hinduism, still worship cows and monkey's and has no social mobility due to the caste system, ky u fucking degenerate leftie try hard.

>>132264860
>almost no philosophical merits
Obviously you don't care much for nature, race, nation, or spiritual harmony if you don't believe those possess philosophical merit.
>vastly superior faith of Christianity
It's only "superior" now because it adapted so much FROM the warrior culture of paganism. Rome fell after it became Christian, you know. The Christians had to change their religion for it to succeed, this is very evident in the many current hypocrisies of the faith. Your messiah, Rabbi Yeshua, taught to turn the other cheek, to accept foreigners, and to submit yourself to them. Pagan culture was more about killing invaders and holding yourself up to the standard of the pagan deities. The Renaissance was honestly more "pagan" than it was Christian, but we all know how Christian the dark ages and countless brother wars were. The failure of the crusades, as well.
Your holidays aren't even Christian, they're pagan.

>>132264965
A large reason why i am not germanic pagan is that the germans converted. They were not conquered; they chose to convert to Christianity because thry recognized its merits over their own barbarous superstitions. Paganism has no room for growth, no room for philosophy. There is a reason why the vast majority of polytheistic adherents outside of Hinduism are African, it is a backwards belief system for uncivilized cultures.

>>132265471
Funny you say that, since most Christians are going to be Africans in the coming decades. Your religion isn't as civilized as you think it is.

>>132265281
Nature, Race, and spiritual harmony can be found in any major religion.

Name an abstract philosophical concept found in Odinism that cannot be recognized in other faiths, hell, even other polytheistic traditions.

Judaism has more of an emphasis on race than Odinism

Jainism has more of an emphasis on nature

Buddhism - spiritual harmony.

These concepts are all more greatly recignuzed in other faiths. Tell me again, what advantage does Odinism have besides breeding uneducated barbarians?

>>132263661
Zoroastrianism is a sister religion to Norse paganism though, it's the same root. Where European pagans and Hindus saw their gods are Noble warriors the zoroastrians saw them as savage barbarians, that's why it ended so differently from Hinduism even though they have the same deities.

>>132265626
I am not a Christian, read my earlier posts

>>132265966
I am greatly saddened that Zoroastrianism ended as it did but i believe it can be revived.

It was not a natural death. It was murdered by Islam. I blame the Sassanians with their incest and their degenerate rule for its death. I believe the later Persians strayed from the true philosophy of Zoroastrianism, which stresses purity and asceticism.

>>132265626
Most Christians in the coming decades will be Asian by the way. It's blowing up in China and Korea.

>>132249550
Everything you think you know about Zarathustra comes from the Nag Hamadi found in 1953, and copied almost 2000 years after the events took place.

In other words, you don't know jack shit.

Zorastar/Zarathustra was a man who lived in the 6th century BC, who was in Persia when the Jews were captives in Babylon and then in Persia, who read the holy scriptures of the Jews and believed them to be true. He took them and added a little local pagan fire god flavor and passed it off as his own religion.

You are proselytizing for pagan fire god Judaism, and you're too stupid to know it.

>>132266666
check'd

There will be more Christians in China than there are people in the USA in a decade.

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>>132266666
See my quints prove that Ahura Mazda is the true god

Join me and we shall fight Angra Manyu and purge the druj from this world with our thoughts, words, abd deeds

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>>132265952
>Name an abstract philosophical concept found in Odinism that cannot be recognized in other faiths, hell, even other polytheistic traditions.
Easy, it was the religion of blonde-haired, blue-eyed Europeans. It may have similarities to other faiths, especially faiths that stole from it (Christianity, for example) but it is the most appealing to me on a both a historical and a traditional level.
>Judaism has more of an emphasis on race than Odinism
Are you high? It's either God's Chosen or Goyim. And Christianity is even worse- it's a universalist religion that anyone can be a part of. There is no race realism in Christianity.
>>132266012
I see now that you are apparently also a Zoroastrianist? It's still a middle easterner's religion, in fact the same one that the Jews ripped off. It is not the religion of my people and it is more dead than you would say paganism is.

>>132263049
Most Jews are agnostics.

>>132266944
all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares

>>132259223
Yes, Cyrus was mentioned by name by a prophet of God before he rose to the world stage.

Hardly even a minor prophecy in the bible, which contains hundreds of such things.

But you forgot that the bible also prophesied how Cyrus would take over Babylon, and how swiftly. Because you're not interested in reality; you want to stay comfy.

>>132267009
All Jews are squares.

>>132266776
The Torah was written 2000 years after its events supposedly occured, and almost all pagan faiths are modern interpretations of oral traditions. What's your point?

>>132265281

>..nature, race, nation, or spiritual harmony..
It has no philosophical merit, because the original people didn't care for shit beside befriending those deities to benefit. Or can you name famous Germanic scholars and philosophers ? Yeah, didn't think so.
That being said, I'm not even trying to shit on your belief, if Germanic paganism is what you found for yourself to work out well.
But that constant bashing back and forth is none but dividing people.

The dude is right when he says people converted, because it had much more to add than it harmed people.

And regarding the teachings, "turn the other cheek" doesn't mean be a weakling faggot. It means to retaliate in a smart way - because it has to be seen and understood within the socio-habitual framework of 2000 years ago in the middle-east. There's a nice screencap where a dude actually explains that well. I sadly don't have it ... if anyone could help me out with that., that would be awesome.

But in the end, why would you argue which faith is superior ? The "kike on a stick" argument is pure bullshit, see part of what I've written earlier (>>132260955).
After all, if you're a good man with virtues and principles and strive to perceive reality as it is, not as you want it to be, then you've already done the step towards whatever might be awakening or enlightenment or heaven etc. in your faith.

The only true enemy of humanity is nihilism in any of its forms. If you're not a nihilist and can or try to see sense in the world and what happens, then we can stand with each other from my point of view.

>>132265206

In Hinduism, "social mobility" works on larger time scales. Why do you think people stay obedient to the upper castes ? Because they believe that if you serve well and endure the suffering, your next existence will be better and higher up the social ladder.

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>>132264543

I would say converting is not what's important and that it's more important to just be educated on the actual doctrines and history and development of the major religions. That way you can make the best choice about what practices to follow based on genuine wisdom instead of cultural bias or for aesthetic or sentimental reasons.

The best intro book to understand Hinduism is "Introduction to the Study of Hindu Doctrines" by Rene Geunon, I think you might be able to find a free pdf online.

>Could you give me the quick rundown

There is one ultimate metaphysical truth that lies at the heart of all the major religions. All of them are based on it, some are closer to it and others more indirectly based on it. There is a primordial tradition among humans that deals with this truth.

Both Zoroastrianism and Hinduism descend from this tradition. The Jews came into contact with Persians when the Persians captured Babylon they and the Persians remade the city cult of the Jews in the image of their own religion (this did this with many other subject peoples as well). Most of Judaism's and through it Christianity's and Islam's major tenets were adopted from Zoroastrianism at this point. Zoroastrianism and Hinduism are both more direct links to the tradition than the Abrahamic religions but as I mentioned Hinduism has a more complete connection.

The huge continent and massive population of India ensured Hinduisms survival for thousands of years. The relatively unbroken connection from the original tradition and long time frame allowed the development of the largest and most profound body of metaphysical literature that we know of.

Ultimately, it's about that Hinduism is a more genuine tradition and connection to the past to participate in, and that it offers the most profound teachings that allow one to most reliably reach blissful and transcendental states where your life becomes immeasurably better. It's also reactionary and anti-egalitarian.

>>132266383
Funny enough Islam wasn't able to dispel valor from the Persians. Some Muslim scientist of the era remarked how most Muslims scholars tended not to be Arab. Also I doubt there's a chance for a revival. Religion is a very good tool for educating and managing an uneducated and low IQ population but those low IQ people to go for the low hanging easy fruits of Christianity or Islam while those of Persian heritage have mostly embraced atheism or kept Zoroastrianism as some funny clothes and traditions and not belief. Best to hope for I think is exactly that, flavored rituals and art linked to Zoroastrianism rather than an actual belief.

>>132266776
But that's wrong, the roots of Zoroastrianism come from before Judaism. And the time when Judaism would have first been in contact with Zoroastrianism would have been when Judaism was still polytheistic.

>>132267175
>
And regarding the teachings, "turn the other cheek" doesn't mean be a weakling faggot. It means to retaliate in a smart way - because it has to be seen and understood within the socio-habitual framework of 2000 years ago in the middle-east. There's a nice screencap where a dude actually explains that well. I sadly don't have it ... if anyone could help me out with that., that would be awesome.
I know that screencap, there's no actual source for it and I couldn't find any Christian scholars to back up what that anon was saying. Christ still teaches Christians to be tolerant and love their enemies, which is self-defeating and definitely not a religion that white people should embrace.

>>132267167
When it's God dictating to Moses, the time lapse is irrelevant. God was the eye witness to the things He told Moses to write, and as all men who wrote books of the bible, the men had the Holy Spirit of God dwelling in them to bring all things to their remembrance.

Pagan fire god Jews do not have that luxury. Post-Christ Jews also do not have that luxury; they cannot even understand their own tanakh anymore. Notice they stick to the Talmud?

>>132265626
At least the Africans are doing better under Christianity. Black cardinals like Sarah and Turkson are hated by pozzed German cardinals because of their traditionalism. Just the the other day this happened

>Cardinal Peter Turkson, the highest ranking African prelate in the Vatican, said it is high time to “close the tap” of African immigration into Europe, which has reached new records in recent days.

>>132266925
You failed to mention a single abstract philosophical concept, instead resorting to "it was goid enough for my ancestors"

What is the nature of free will in Odinism? How does one determine good from evil?

>its either God's chosen or Goyim
Exactly what I mean when I say it has more of an emphasis on race. If you are not descended from one of the 12 tribes of the race of Israel you are a filthy Goyim

Ive been a Zoroastrian this entire thread, i just recognize that Christianity has merits over the nonreligion of Germanic NeoPaganism

>>132267839
You say the roots of Zoroaster are pre-Judaism, yet your claim is false, unsupported, unsubstantiated, and makes no common sense.

What to do, what to do.

>>132267918
>Ive been a Zoroastrian this entire thread

Spotted the Jew.

>>132267961
Same could be said of yours.

>>132267175
>the only true enemy of humanity is nihilism

Spot on

>>132267839

It's the typical heeb tactic of preemptively claiming the exact opposite of the truth before you know someone is going to bring it up the truth in order to try to undermine their argument.

The mainstream and respected academics including many Jewish ones generally agree the influenced was largely one-way and was from the Persians to the Jews.

>>132268082
Not so much, no.

The Iranian prophet and religious reformer Zarathustra (flourished before the 6th century bce)—more widely known outside Iran as Zoroaster, the Greek form of his name)—is traditionally regarded as the founder of the religion. Zoroastrianism contains both monotheistic and dualistic features. It likely influenced the other major Western religions—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Zoroastrianism

>>132267283
I most certainly need to look more into Hinduism as you raise valid points. Do you hace suggestions where i might start? Besides just reading the Vedas i mean.

>>132268353
Zarathustra, also spelled Zarathushtra, Greek Zoroaster (born traditionally c. 628 bce, possibly Rhages, Iran—died c. 551 bce), Iranian religious reformer and prophet, traditionally regarded as the founder of Zoroastrianism.

Ibid.

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>>132267918
Are you a Parsee anon? I know a bunch in India, they've been good allies to us Christians ever since the Brits gave them land in Bombay

>>132267839
>when Judaism was still polytheistic.
I want to believe you but as ive stated before we are dealing with 2500 year old texts here. There is no way of knowing

>>132267855

Buddha, too, taught that you should contemplate the hate and violence towards each others and much rather take hardship as opportunities to grow within yourself.

But those guys also knew, that it takes aeons for people to adopt an enlightened lifestyle if you will.
Christianity managed to overcome this "human nature of virtuous weakness" (in lack of a better descripion) by adding that in principle noone can be saved by means of his own deeds etc.. Only through the mercy of god - which is enhanced by the biddings of Jesus and Mary to which christians pray all the time (at least the apostolic successors of the RCC and OC). Thus, giving everyone the opportunity to do the right thing but you're also not thrown off the cliff if you fuck up. That's what confession is for.
IIRC the only reason for a christian to lose god's mercy is massive heresy - which might even be the case for most modern-day chritsians if it's true that the rcc and oc are the real apostolic, catholic church(es)

>>132267961


http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/ngier/309/zorojud.htm

> Zoroastrian influences on late Judaism was pervasive, profound, and continues with us today.1


http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/15283-zoroastrianism

>Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2010/jul/13/abrahamic-religion-zoroastrian-judaism

>>132268641
Scrolls that were old in 32 AD were dug up in the Qumran caves; they are called the Dead Sea Scrolls.

An intact scroll of Isaiah numbers among them. When compared to the modern Isaiah, the scroll and the modern version are 99.8% identical with the 0.2% being spelling variants and idioms, touching nothing on doctrine.

Lord knows how many more years than 2000, and 99.8% intact. The same. Identical.

Let me know when anything else on earth reaches that level of reliability.

>>132268773


>https://theguardian com/commentisfree/belief/2010/jul/13/abrahamic-religion-zoroastrian-judaism
https://archive.is/PQ3wa

>>132268773
I don't care what some idiot wrote in his thesis.

kek

As to the second, the only thing Zoroaster could have had an impact on is the TALMUD, the system of PHARISAICAL JUDAISM that the Jews developed in captivity in Babylon/Persia.

Not on JUDAISM.

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>>132249550
Much better than "paganism", please make more threads like this.

>>132267881
Here is the typical christian tactic of claiming something is true because the scriptures say it is true

Im going to need a little more to go off of here. How can I believe that the Word is God-Breathed. Mohammedians claim the same with their holy book, as does Joseph Smith. Who is to be believed?

Right now i see no merits of the Semitic Sky god over the Persian fire god. In fact the Persian fire god seems to have a clearer and purer understanding of human nature and spiritual harmony than the jewish sky god does

>>132268025
>spotted the jew
Haha ok buddy come back when you have an argument. Im ignoring the rest of your posts until then.

Best of luck :-)

>>132268025
>strawman

>>132268686

addition: ...Jesus, Mary and in some denominations saints

>>132268557
Nope, not Parsee

White boy from Georgia

>>132268686
>the only way someone can lose their christianity is through massive heresy
Curious, what would qualify as "massive heresy"?

Apostasy?

>>132269054
Thanks m8 i plan on making more at some point. I think /pol/ gets too caught up in Christianity vs Odinism vs Atheism abd should branch out to look and other traditions too

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>>132268405
Look up the Bhagavad Gita by Yogananda and Secret of the Veda. After that check out the Upanishads

>>132269776

Well, I'm not a christian so I can't answer for sure - but I'm sure it's in the sphere of denial of god and/or Jesus as god (as well as god's son) and the desecration of the church (which can be seen nowadays as in "the buildings" or "the covenants" etc.). And yes, apostasy, of course.

But if I understand the gospels right, you really need to pretty much rip a priests heart out and fully deny Jesus in order to fall from grace.
I'd appreciate if a christian would correct me if I'm wrong here. Not keen to spout bullshit :D

>>132252792
>the true religion
Thats a pretty big claim.
I dont believe a religions mundane traditions (the kinds of practices the normal followers adhere to) can survive uncorrupted through time. I consider the core of any religion then to be the underlying mysticism and ideas they hold, and i believe these ideas to be obtainable by through asceticism. So fundamentally i judge a religions 'legitimacy' by the quality of its ascetics.

Due to all this, the quantity and quality and importance of monks within orthodox christianity makes me tend to favor it above any other religion ive been made aware of.

In the past i looked into zoroastrianism for a while, and the conclusion i made was that there was just not a robust enough presence of the tradition. That the past had effectively dwindled it to the point that its just teetering one step above complete new-age reconstructionism. (to clarify, while truth can be obtained through asceticism, there are dangerous of prelest, and so having a large stable body of other ascetics as well as time honored dogmas and writings by other ascetics to act as influences upon the lone person in the cave, is a sort of safety device)

>>132269964
Your welcome. I'm so interested on hearing your religion, it needs a voice here.

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>>132268405

First read the Guenon book "Introduction to the Study of the Hindu Doctrines". It's from the 20's or 30's but is still the single best introduction to Hinduism, it also helps you understand eastern traditional cultures/philosophy in general better. This book does not delve massively into the Hindu doctrines themselves but sets you up to understand Hindu texts really well when you actually start reading them.

The Rig-Veda is huge and archaic, there is a recent full english translation published by Oxford but I'd recommend waiting until you read more of the more recent texts first.

After Guenon I'd recommend the Bhagavad-Gita, Easwaran's translation is good. It's a short text and mixes a bunch of Hindu ideas together and synthesizes them. For a short text it helps get pretty close to the main message of Hinduism.

The important texts that I'd recommend are the Upanishads, Brahma Sutras and the Bhagavad-Gita. The Vedantic schools are based on those three texts so once you've read a few of those than you can start to delve into Vedanta which is really profound. The talks of the Sri Ramana Maharshi are good as well and don't need any text to be read beforehand.

>>132270002
Thanks m8

I would like to see a serious discussion about hinduism on /pol/ but i dont think its possible because of anti-indian sentiment (which i share as well), poo in loo, andcthe fact that almost all whites who identify as hindu are degenerate hippy fags with no actual understanding if the theology

>>132268405

If I might help you out here, I've been in the Hinduism general yesterday. Here's the resources OP posted:

Resources

>Bhagavad Gita
http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/index-english.html

>Upanishads
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/upanishadindex.asp

>Vedas
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/

>MAHABHARATA by C Rajagopalachari
http://www.gita-society.com/section3/mahabharata.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiHrferzdbSAhXIQ48KHXpjBfIQFggnMAA&usg=AFQjCNEVJFySM166gELxlwp_gULUgD7yjw&sig2=KRg3OHxt-7NTN7O0TaIkYw

>Ramayan Anime
https://youtu.be/rAM9x_GF9VY [Embed]

>>132270524
>>132270420

Excellent. So much to read.

Also >>132270524
There was a Hindu General yesterday? Howd it go? Was progress made or was it all POO IN LOO?

>>132249550
but i am one.

and for the record.........it's the world's oldest religion.

>>132270339
I fully admit that i started the thread with a little bit of bait to spur conversation. Unfortunately with the website functioning as it does this is needed sometimes for topics that are not widely discussed otherwise it gets slided

This is OP by the way.

>>132271038
Have you done your good deeds for the day?

>>132250918
Not to mention the literal constant war they had with the Byzantines which caused them to be devastated in their infrastructure, national confidence, and moral standard.

The Arabs had a bright invigorating star in in the form of the charismatic Muhammad in front of them, the Byzantines and Sassians had nothing but hundreds of years of wars and decadent looking to the past at them.

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>>132270420
Kya aap dhvaj chhup rahe hain kyonki aap Bharat se hai?

>>132258000
>the Iranians accept any who wish to follow the light
Fuck off and stop stealing our shit
t. Iranian

>>132269160
Because it tells the story of the world from beginning to end, and about 30% of it predicts the future, with 100% accuracy.

Something only God can do.

>>132271038
It's breddy old but far from the oldest, that would be Animism I think

>>132270847

It's that one Indian brah that does them from time to time. He's pretty good in ignoring the poo-posting faggots.
Went pretty well 80 posts above bump limit.
Also discussion was quite fruitful and shills derailed it only the last 80something posts completely, so it wasn't fully lost.

>>132270296
The only thing that cant be forgiven in christianity is blasphemy against the holy spirit, which effectively requires you to claim that all the miracles christ performed were done just like it says, but only because he was tricking everyone with the power of satan.

>>132269274
You're a Jew. Sorry to have to be the one to tell you. Zoroaster/Zarathustra believed the Old Testament as presented to him in captivity under the Medo-Persian empire.

Don't worry, though, you're a horrible Jew.

>>132271447
True

If only the religion had spread more outside of Iran. The priests were more concerned with keeping it as the state religion to legitimize Sassanian rule, abd the nomadic tribes who embraced it became more enamored with the teachings of Mani

>>132271890

Ah I see. Thank you.

>>132271890
So you have to admit the Gospell happened as it says and still deny Christ? So you basically have to be a Satanist?

>>132271514

>are you sure you want to go to Bharat?

If you are actually properly employing Hindu teachings in day-to-day life and in the way your mind works you are not affected by the sight of poverty and suffering and so it's literally a non-issue to be surrounded by mangy dogs and begging kids etc. It's the same with being affected by bad water, smells, food, noise etc.

Also, it's not like there aren't many upper class and upper middle class areas.

>>132256430
You are toeing the line of being BTFO'ed by a shitskin. focus, and speak rationally.

>>132271870

That Indian guy is not me, I'm a white American. I've seen and have been meaning to post in those threads but I haven't yet.

>>132272403
Effectively yes. Its not something you can accidentally do, its not something someone worried about doing it can ever do, being worried about it already means you dont think thats true, you have to believe the whole deal but preach that jesus was just a trick of satan.

The context of it, when its mentioned in the bible, he is basically condemning the pharisees who had witnessed these miracles he had performed and called them the work of satan.

I believe (some?) jews hold this view officially in the talmud or something.

Im not sure if this would officially de-christianize someone or just basically leave them perpetually screwed, metaphysically.

>>132273001

It's just a huge benefit as is. Not that anyone would convert directly (maybe some do ?) but just as a matter of learning the actual views of other literal cultures.
Not to mention that apart from the meme-y shit, those Indians are actually pretty well spoken. Definitely enjoyable threads, just as those zoroastrianism threads which occur from time to time.
And definitely too few of 'em. I mean I appreciate the christiand and pagan threads with regards to politics pretty much but it's just always too much self-loathing shilling and back-and-forth bashing and that is quite exhausting to read and follow to say the least.

>>132273035
It does seem as if this permanently condemns most Jews from ever being saved

>>132272788
But anon I just asked if you're hiding the flag because you're posting from India. I know what you mean, Hindus are pretty stoic as far as their living conditions are concerned. Down in the South it's quite clean though, nice temples, and pilgrimage sites for Christians too

>>132254605
>Satan (the opponent) is a lone rebel with no actual power but to tempt us.

He holds a lot more power in the world that you'd like to believe.

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>>132273380
>It's just a huge benefit as is. Not that anyone would convert directly (maybe some do ?) but just as a matter of learning the actual views of other literal cultures.

Yes I agree. Even if you already have a religion that you are serious about or are a committed atheist/agnostic etc you can't really count yourself as an intellectual if you remain ignorant of eastern philosophy. Especially for a white person because it's part of their shared cultural heritage.

Interactions between the east and west in classical times and again in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries were so influential on the development of western culture and western philosophy that in order to fully understand the west as well as in order to develop a good understanding of the world as a whole you really need to understand Hinduism and Buddhism.

>>132274037
>hiding the flag

>>132274383
Satan in the Christian tradition holds much power over the hearts and minds of man but he is completely powerless without them.

This is different than Angra Manyu, who is a force of nature and chaos and has an equal influence on the world as Ahura Mazda

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>>132274673
Kek alright

>>132274832
>This is different than Angra Manyu, who is a force of nature and chaos and has an equal influence on the world as Ahura Mazda
I thought that's a dualist heresy? AFAIK early Zoroastrians didn't believe in that

>>132275374
Youre right they didnt. Darkness is the absence of light after all.

A purist would deny Angra Manyu's existence but i keep him around because he represents the manifestation of disorder.

I think learning about Entropy brought me to this conclusion.

I dont view Angru as a literal intelligent entity (as i do Ahura), he is merely a representation of how things tend to become more and more disordered over time, or Entropy

>>132276078
I also believe that Angra Manyu represents time itself, as time and disirder are inseparable


whereas Ahura Mazda is the infinite

Take that as you will

>>132274588

Yeah, absolutely. The ACTUAL way of cultural exchange which can benefit whole empires.

>>132276078
this is literally the metaphysics of the elder scrolls series, where you have anu and padomay, and some claim padomay is an entity, and others claim padomay is the absence of aun. This has extra meaning because some entities are said to be totaly padomaic, and the question would then be whether those entities are composed of some of padomays essence, or whether they are autonomous sentient voids in the anuic structure.

I bring it up because it has a sort of reverse entropy going on where over time everything becomes more ordered and structured (anuic). But this made me realize that in truth its chaos that gives structure to things, variations from the uniform unchanging which would be a void i guess. So creation comes from variation in the material of perfect order. Which meshes well with lots of religions ideas, with the focuses on words and vibrations, christ after all is just the physical manifestation of logos.

This is also present on tolkien.

Its really amazing how mystical systems all tend to have commonalities even when someone makes them up.

>>132276472
>Yeah, absolutely. The ACTUAL way of cultural exchange which can benefit whole empires
This is the main point of contention i have with other Nationalists. In order to advance your own people it is important to look objectively at the accomplishments of others and adapt accordingly. Not doing so results in stagnation.

>>132276760

I guess that's due to the fact that kind of "universal" ideas are ... well, universal.
I mean literally every single religion refers to their god(s) or saint(s) or savior(s) or role model(s) as some form of light.
Whether that stems from the sun or whatever doesn't even matter. And that's true, I believe, for most systems that even developed (are said to have developed) independent of each other.
So there's a certain universality to it and I actually forgot what I wanted to say ... I'm sorry. Gonna add up the moment I remember what I wanted to actually express

>>132249550
How can anyone believe in so called "free will"

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>>132253784
this is a jewdora post.

>>132276760
Holy shit i never thought of that!

It does have a Tolkeinish ring to it.
And i wonder if the writers of these mysticisms ended up believing them after developing them so. Im sure Tolkein did to an extent.

Zoroastrianism and other forms of dualistic spiritualism come naturally to people debating the nature of order and chaos.

Zurvanist sect is most redpilled within it.
>tfw freemasonry is modern day zurvanism. Look it up!

>>132277280

No doubt. It's a shame that """nationalists""" see nationalism as "ONLY DO ME AND FUCK ALL OTHER FAGS LEL". This is going to backfire massively - in case those modern-day nationalists really will achieve something at some point. After all, stagnation means death, for the individual as well as for whole people and empires.
And as long as the exchange and admiring is not kind of force-fed like it is nowadays (as in "multiculti") then there's not even a danger to it in form of harming the native populace etc..

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>>132257738
>not understanding jewish mysticism relates to the Torah/ Old testament, and its a science that proves its super natural origins outside space-time for its uncanny ability to write history before it happens

>not understanding Jesus Christ being crucified is literally on genesis 1-1

>>132250526
>>132249790
>not understanding the bible a book for mystics

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

this is the exact kind of message that attracts mystics and sages.

>>132277777

>>132254808
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19449030/

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>>132249550
Incest is wincest

>>132277778
Some of the Zoro sects are pretty cool

Im particularly interested in Manicheanism but im hesitant to "follow" it because i dont think inanimate objects can be classified as good or evil

>>132277671

I can't tell enough about how I admire the idea of Eru and the Ainur having created the earth and all that is through a kind of "primordial symphony".
I don't know much about creation myths beyond genesis and the sumerian one (with tiamat and apsu) but Tolkien's version could actually hold some credibility to it.
Truly a master on its own and with a pretty admirable mind.

>>132249550
Will you stop trying so hard to be a special snowflake?
No one gives a shit about dead religions, even Scientology is more relevant than Paganism.

>>132277932
Christianity is Gnostic Judaism

>>132277850
But the problem is that most people are not open minded enough to see there is a healthy middle ground between cultural isolation and multiculti

>>132278459

You didn't understand

>>132271691
Tribal religions are a joke.

>>132278568
Gnosticism is Kabbalah.

>>132278278
Im pretty sure the egyptians had a god whos job it was to just say the name of things and that saying is what made them exist. As far as christianity goes the 'creation myth' of christianity would far more accurately be john 1 >>132277932
, in fact i think if they had intended the bible to be read by laymen it would have started with john, and the entire old testament would be an apendix. But basically, words, the word created. In hermeticism the elements sort of decompile from the word, with there being the 4 elements, (earth air fire water), but earth and air being combinations of fire and water (earth is waters coolness combined with fires dryness, you boil off water and all thats left is the sediment/minerals - and air is waters moistness combined with fires heat, the steam/vapors you get). Fire and water themselves being decompiled out of schamayim, which is described as a fiery water that surounds the entire universe. Its been described as the echo of the word of god. I dont know much about this though, just what ive read years ago.

This seems to be a commonality you see all around the place though.

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>>132278568
pretty much.

Yahwehs name encomposses the letters Yod, He, Wa, and He. Hebrew letters are symbolic in meaning

Yod means Hand, He means breath, Wa means nail, He means breath again, so Gods name literally means His (right) hand will be nailed)

>>132278152
>i dont think inanimate objects can be classified as good or evil

try licking touching lead, and touching silicon (crystal energy) and see if you still agree with that statement.

it seems like a good place to post the religion redpill

How about we don't worship shit we pretty much know isn't real?

>>132278459
>that flag
Opinion discarded

>>132279355
do you think the soul is real anon?

>>132276760
Not exactly related but Pope Benny said some interesting things about how the account of creation in Genesis was written as a refutation to the Babylonian version

>Ratzinger notes that a study of the origins of the creation texts in the Wisdom literature especially reveal that they were written to respond to the Hellenistic civilization confronted by the Israelites. 13 Thus, it is not surprising that the human authors of these accounts did not use the image of the six days to assert their faith in the one Creator God. This image would not have been appropriate for their time and would not have been understood by their Greek contemporaries. In contrast, a study of the origins of the Hexaemeron, the six-day account of creation, found in the first chapter of Genesis reveals that it was written to respond to the seemingly victorious Babylonian civilization confronted by the Israelites several centuries before their encounter with the Greeks. Here, the human author of the sacred text used images familiar to their pagan contemporaries to refute the Enuma Elish, the Babylonian creation account that claimed that the world was created when Marduk, the god of light, killed the primordial dragon. 14 Thus, as Cardinal Ratzinger points out, it is not surprising that nearly every word of the first creation account addresses a particular confusion of the Babylonian age. For instance, when the Sacred Scriptures affirm that in the beginning, the earth was without form and void (cf. Gen. 1:2), the sacred text refutes the existence of a primordial dragon. When they refer to the sun and the moon as lamps that God has hung in the sky for the measurement of time (cf. Gen. 1:14), the text refutes the divinity of these two great celestial bodies believed to be Babylonian gods.

>>132278824
People are not going to buy into this bullshit in this day and age dude. Maybe some idiots will but they shouldn't exist to begin with.

Any religion we adhere to needs to be based on something real. Something verifiable.

>>132279630
Yes.

>>132273001
Can confirm

>>132275374
ok that picture was funny i laughed

>>132279269
>it seems like a good place to post the religion redpill

I could redpill you on Mani but that needs a whole thread to itself

Shit gets complicated, and explaining Zoro to lowbrow barbarians like >>132278459 is complicated enough.

I am having a good time in this thread. Ive gained a lot of insight on duality and Eastern Spiritual concepts. Perhaps i will post a thread about Mani later.

>>132279355

Why not ? Every faith has its place. The inherent nature of "belief" is "you trust in something you cannot know". And rightly so. Atheism - and the nihilism that follows from it - are merely destructive. And that's also not how human minds work. There needs a sense of what might come. Something you can adhere to. For some it's race, for some it's Jesus and for some it's the emperor (as in: back then in China or Japan, not that Trump meme). Humans work only with hirarchies, which is why communism and all related ideas and ideologies are so bad.

I mean we could argue that Nietzsche might had a point in that christianity praises mediocrity. So one could switch to zoroastrianism, which encourages free will and excelling oneself (as far as I've understood). But believing in nothing will just kill off the will to live, to reproduce or if there are children, to not make the best out of this place so they don't just inherit a huge piece of garbage.

>>132279047

Interesting.

>>132278278
>primordial
Shit like this is honestly what keeps me from slipping back into atheism/agnosticism

I know it seems juvenile to have your spiritual outlook influenced by video game lore but there is great merit in seeing how these concepts carry over even into fictional mysticisms

>>132280617
>primordial
I mean >primordial symphony

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>>132279686
>pope
nope.

there are 2 creation stories in genesis. Genesis 1:1 states that the heavens and earth were created. if you look at Isaiah 45:18 it says the earth was not created in vain, but to be inhabited. so in genesis 1:1 earth was created, and completely full of life. the grammar in 1:2 implies something happened to make the earth formless and void. some kind of catastrophic event ended all life on earth to make it formless and void.

one little verse in Isaiah 45 makes the pope look like an idiot.

also Elohim is a plural term meaning 3 or more. in Hebrew they express multitude in 2 ways, they have a separate way of saying 2, and 3 or more with (im), an example of this would be both, or couple. so instead of saying objects in hebrew you would use object(both) to express 2 objects, or obect(im) to express 3 or more.

the text supports the idea of several divine beings.

>>132279811
the idea behind Christianity is that there is a monotheistic creator of the soul, that has universal and spiritual laws that when broken, mean death, but his Son willingly takes our place of punishment. because he loves us, its the equivalent of someone going to jail and taking capitol punishment and the blame for you killing someone.

>>132279771

This is exactly what should not happen. Because to believe in someting "veryfiable" as in "scientifically provable" is mere materialism and the problem causing the decline of [insert random empire or society] in first place.

I'm not saying you should throw down your ass and kneel before an icon of Jesus or Kali or whatever. But I'm saying that when you have nothing spiritual to follow or adhere to - and be it even those wicca-larpers - you'd just go off the rails (most likely).
Just look at
>any western society
in
>current year

That to say, I'm not a fan of theocracies. Far from it, of course. Secularism is partly fine - if you simply use it to not letting it have massive influence on politics as in commanding wars and feuds and so on - but we basically pushed religion and spirituality for that matter into the darkest corners of our closets.
And up to now it has brought nothing but massive decline. Not because Germany now allows gay marriage or something. But because mere materialistic world views corrupt people over time to extents that are beyond oblivion.

>>132280186
I'm all down for making the most out of life and maximizing our potential. Just don't expect me to go and die for your "sacred" cause.

>>132279771
People dont even "buy in" to their own religions anore. They just blindly follow because their parents did.

>>132249550
Cyrus introduced the Jews to monotheism, then the Jews stole it like they steal everything else. In that sense, I, as a Christian, am also a Zoroastrian.

>>132281276
A belief that is not worth dying for is not worth having

Doubt is inevitable but if you cannot stand up for your beliefs then your foundation for believing is weak and must be adjusted

>>132281676
Christians and Zoroastrians can find much in common. I urge you to read the Avesta. I think you will find a lot of similarities between it and the New Testament in terms of philosophy

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>>132249550
Fire temples, water temples, epic garden palaces, towers of silence. This religion is straight out of Zelda. Fucking ebin.

>>132280617

Well, practically everyone agrees that there was a creation event. It must've been, otherwise we wouldn't be here discussing said event. Now, if that was the relativistic big bang, the creation of a bubble-universe as reinforced by string theory, by a hyperdimensional guy creating everything, through a primordial sea and it's mere aspects or through something Tolkien proposed for his own fiction is not too relevant actually. It's a matter of taste in my opinion.

And if you adopt the view of a game (or at least see some relevance in it) - why not ? It's my deep belief that the details do not matter so much as the fact that you're actually leading a virtuous, compassionate and good life.

I, personally, have no particular religion but I borrow from likes like Bhuddism, Christianity even some Germanic paganism and also some Draconic views. But I'm not gnostic for that matter. I'm just trying to perceive reality as reality if you know what I mean.

So what I actually wanted to say is, like I stated in an earlier post, as long as you're not a nihilist and don't want to mass murder someone for not believing in (or throwing bantz at) your particular prophet, then we can well stand side by side from my perspective.

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>>132281676
>Cyrus introduced the Jews to monotheism,

>Cyrus who was named 150 years before he was born in Isaiah 44-45 and highlights his entire career as King of the Persians and Medes, who gave the Jews wealth to rebuild Jerusalem introduced them to monotheism after Nebuchadnezzar made laws protecting the Jews so they may keep their monotheistic god, and made the punishment for blaspheming it being cut into little pieces, and their houses turned into dung piles

???

>>132281637
>People dont even "buy in" to their own religions anore. They just blindly follow because their parents did.

Fuck those people.

>>132281997
That's because kikestianity, Judiasm, and Islam are all shitty retellings of older beliefs.

>>132249550
>without Jewish influence

On the other hand, it influenced the Jews, so...

>>132281676
>Cyrus
That's not how you say his name REEEEEEEE

>>132281805
>A belief that is not worth dying for is not worth having

Show me a belief that is worth dying for. I haven't seen any yet.

>Doubt is inevitable but if you cannot stand up for your beliefs then your foundation for believing is weak and must be adjusted

Bullshit , as far as i can tell this is all there is. I'm not dying for some stupid fucking cause , go fuck yourself.

>>132282008

Haha yeah, didn't even think about that. You're right kek

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>>132249550
Any pdfs or vids to learn about zoroastrianism? Sounds interesting.

>>132282328
are you one of those plebs who call him Darius?

>>132282376
>Show me a belief that is worth dying for. I haven't seen any yet.

that God has a son, and he died for us so we may have spiritual immortality.

>>132282589
No Cyrus is just the Anglo version of his name. His name is kurosh.
t. Halfbreed fuck named kurosh

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>>132282397
>>132282008
Pokemon has a tower of silence where they buried the Pokemon similar to the Zoroastrians. Light arrows, and the desert light/purity themes of the areas they're found in, in Zelda remind be of Manichean views. Nips incorporated a lot of mainland religious beliefs into heir religion.

>>132282589
Fantastic tale brethren.

Now go kill and die for that shit , remember to wear a gopro and upload that shit to Jewtube.

>>132282534
Right here my man
http://www.avesta.org/kanga/ka_english_kanga_epub.pdf

here's Morgan Freeman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuWMDDsJ-Sg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvYnWs_UAEs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXCh6CuCUDI
this video has some very insightful interviews.

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>>132282534
Just to wet your whistle, "Holocaust" was invented by them. They saw fire as a mystic cleansing force.

>>132282534
Here's a whole documentary if you have the time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPLXnteRDO4

>>132283103
Thanks, that's one quality post, anon.
>>132283556
What the fuck is this?

>>132283033

If it just weren't for the degeneracy they've developed lel
But who's a German to comment on degeneracy eh ?

>>132283664
It's either a Chinese factory accident, or that gay pride parade in Taiwan i think.

>>132249550
>Zoroastrianism
>Truly the greatest religion, no?

Think you mean Germanic Paganism

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>>132249550
Because in my search for spiritual truth, the only religious tradition where it's deity actually seemed to reach out to me was the Christian one.

Great discussion but I'm out for the night.
If OP is still around, you should definitely make these threads more often. Truly time spent qualitatively.

And since shills are rather uneducated plebs, they haven't derailed these so far. lel

Have a calm night, everyone.

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>>132283092
>Now go kill
no, luke 9 forbids that kind of shit don't let Catholicism ruin what Christianity actually teaches

53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.

54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village

> die for that shit
well, I'm probably eventually going to.

>remember to wear a gopro and upload that shit to Jewtube
idiot

>>132282882
that's pretty cool.

>>132284211
wait a sec u nigger faggot

>>132284089
>Germanic Paganism
>A religion
Good one

German Paganism as you know it is a 19th century abomination. It likely bears little to no resemblance to the faith of your fathers besides the names of your gods.

Also please enlighten me on the philosophical benefits to adhering to germaning polytheism. Can you give an ardent theological argument for the practice of human sacrifice? Can you name me any Odinist philosophers or theologians?

Can you explain to me why, after conquering most of the Roman empire, the germans willfully chose to convert to Christianity? No one forced them.

>>132284596

wat

Speak quickly for my mind needs rest. And I'm hungry af

>>132284211
Im still here but ive been phoneposting on public transportation so my id keeps changing. Im about done too, but i will ceratinly make another Zarathustra thread in the near future.

>>132280950
So? maybe this is just the Universe saying "IT''S NOT WORFT IT , GET RID OF ALL THE PEOPLE"

KEK , i dunno.

Way i see it : if God is real then everything is going to be awwwright. Somehow. If God isn't real , even if we win , it's all fucked.

I'm not worried either way. I know how my life is gonna go : i'm just gonna be a civilian and help out where i can without drawing too much attention to myself (deal with it). If i have to fight i'll fight , but i rather not. And it's not just cowardice either.

It's all right there in my astrology chart (if you believe in that shit , which ironically enough i do , to some extent).

South Node Aries - North Node in Libra. Moon in Taurus. Venus in Leo. Etc.

Mostly peaceful , hippie-ish , feminine signs.

You can call me a faggot , it's alt-right.

>>132285220
I used to be like you but as i got older i realized that this way of thinking was the direct cause of my unhappiness

I believe that human beings are meant to have purpose - no purpose leads to druj/degeneracy/whatever you want to call it. If you accept that it is unnatural to feel this way youve made your first step towards salvation/enlightenment/whateveryiuwant to call it

I chose Zoroastrianism because i believe it is the earliest and purest form of this inner search, but i do not discount other Idealistic faiths such as Christianity or Hinduism which are allies in our search

Islam and Judaism must be avoided as these are Materialistic faiths which place submission in the material world over freedom of the spirit.
And neopaganisms are followed purely out of racial devotion
But beyond thst youre a ok with me.

Alright OP out you guys but thank you for pitching in

This has been a fantastic thread

Cheers :-)

>>132285220

So, after all, you believe in something.
Checkmate atheists. kek

Yeah, that's what I said. You're not believing in nothing and you at least seem to be not some too utterly materialistic faggot. And if you do to further society, then you're already being virtuous without realizing it.
Pretty a Zen-ish attitude actually. "Enlightenment and Buddha-nature lies in every moment and everything that you do" basically - as everything is dharma practice as long as you do it "consciously in this very moment" if you will. Though you don't name it as such.

What I meant is not, that you need to believe in a literal god and that he's goina punish you. I just said you mustn't adopt a mere "money fame bitches"-attitude if you will.
Pure materialism kills. And doing stuff to further the society/volk/whatever can as well be something very spiritual - see for example Carl Jung's writings about the Wotan-nature inherently to European blood. He basically says that whether you believe in Odin as deity or as principle or not at all - there's some kind of "European Consciousness" (the Wotan-spirit) that will rise up from time to time and people further their own kind and fight back against everything that is inherently destructive to their society/peoples.
One of his examples was teutonics (if you say it this way in english) fighting the Romans before adopting christianity. He argued that the famous "Furor Teutonicus" was a direct expression of this Wotan spirit.

>>132286132
I believe we all have our own life purposes , that we are all puzzle pieces in the Divine plan of God. A plan which is perfect. Somehow.

Now don't get me wrong , i have an anger about me (a war-lust even) sometimes i will just sit there alone in my room watching combat footage with intense music playing in the background for hours on end. Fucking retarded , i know. I could be doing something productive with that time. But it all feels so familiar. I can see myself doing it. I get nostalgic just seeing that shit.

For some reason i'm obssesed with military type stuff. I dunno why.

If you believe in past lives and all that shit then i guess i was a violent person in the past , who knows , maybe.

But anyways , i do know this : i don't want to be a soldier/warrior. I don't like violence all that much (even though i do seem to be obssesed with it for some reason). I'll fight if i have to , but i don't want to.

In short : i do have a positive purpose in my life , it's just that that purpose is a peaceful one and dosen't involve me dying in a battlefield.

>>132263661
Persia isn't even mostly desert, snow nigger. Google "Mazandaran Province" and "Zagros Mountains". Gosh, you are such a fucking retard.

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>>132249550
This is the cringiest thread I've ever seen holy shit.
Look I know you worship us and wish you were us and all, but it's honestly hilarious that you think of yourself as a white nationalist while at the same time bending over and sucking our cocks.
I guess that's what happens when you're whitetrash with no culture at all. You're forced to steal and appropriate stuff from other people because that's all whites have ever done.
At least the pagan larpers want to go back to their own religion. You're just trying to steal someone else's hoping you'll be one of them, but you never will be. You're just trying to eat the scraps we threw away 1400 years ago like the mutt you are you white piece of shit.

>>132264183
Both Zoroastrianism/Mithraism and Hinduism came from Indo-Iranian religions of the Sintashta culture, you fucking piece of shit trash. Zoroastrianism did not come from Hinduism.

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>>132286560
Yup , i believe in God , dunno which God , but there it is. And i do have a life purpose : to live a peaceful and decent life , raise a family , have a successful business , all that.

But hey , if SHTF in my immediate vicinity. I'm there.

>>132289127
>Muslim flag
>Zoroastrianism
Ayo hol' up

>>132289619
I'm not a majoosi you dumbfuck.
I'm saying he worships and idolizes Persians so much he's now larping as one.
What a complete cuck.

The Abrahamic faiths are largely based off Zoroastrianism. The ideas of paradise (Avestan word pairidaēza), transcendental moral dualism, light = goodness & darkness = evil metaphors, angels (yazatas), personified evil figures (e.g., Asmodeus is based off daeva Aēšma), eschatological reward and punishment (Chinvat Bridge), Day of Judgment (Frashokereti), rigid duality between truth (asha) and lie (druj), savior of light (Saoshyant), and the resurrection of the dead (Yasna 19) descended from Zoroastrian influence. Read Chapter 7 of Michael Stausberg's Zarathustra and Zoroastrianism for the most up-to-date scholarly research regarding this topic.

>>132289127
>threw away 1400 years ago
Yeah same way you thew away everything Iran stood from in the 70s your countries religion and thriving in my country how does that make you feel

>>132289796
Zoroastrianism was developed by Sogdians or Bactrians in Greater Khorasan and later passed onto Mithraist Persians of Pars. However, this entire tradition can genealogically be traced to Proto-Indo-Iranians who gave the foundation for development.

>>132289998
Modern Persians are still largely genetically the same since Sassanian and maybe Achaemenid times. However, Proto-Indo-Iranians were racially Eastern Slavic and were not equivalent to Ancient Persians.

>>132289796
Silly, Zoroastrianism comes from an even older belief, just as your language comes from an older language. Follow the branches downwards to get o the root.
Most religions are worth studying.

>>132289127
Give me a break Ahmud.

>>132249550
>Why are you not a follower of an Iranian religion that has been dead for over a thousand years

Gee willickers Batman I don't know

>>132289968
It's not our religion anymore pajeet. We threw it away and upgraded to a better one 1400 years ago.
Now some subhuman whiteshit with no culture, religion, or identity of his own is trying to leech off the scraps we threw away 1400 years ago.
>everything Iran stood from in the 70s
Iran never stood for secularism or western values Those were forced by 2 brutal monarchs, which is what led to their overthrow and the establishment of sharia to make sure Islam in Iran will never be under attack again.

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>>132290411
>upgraded to a better one

>>132290411
Topkek, the sand cult has done its work throw away everything your ancestors stood for Iran was zorastrian for thousands of years before Islam came along and guess when it was more prosperous

>>132290411
>1400 years ago.
More like ~500 years ago. Iranians weren't entirely Muslim until Safavid Empire.

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>>132249826
>>132250918
>>132271447
Shouldn't have burned down the holy church of the sepulcher and pilfered the true cross, ntm turned jerusalem over to the jews who then (with sassanids obv) persecuted and betrayed the byzantine inhabitants.
Sure it seemed like the correct manuever for Khusuro to deny Maurice's claim to imperiatu, as he'd previously denied the usurper Phocus' invalid claim. his loyalty pethaps still with Maurice who'd help restore him to his rightful Sassanid throne. The byzantines were fucking up and in part due to the contemporaneous cessation of byzantine donatives to the buffer state Syrian christian ghassanids, and the time was ripe—so much so that they invaded further west into the roman empire than ANY persian army had before. But looking back we understand that perhaps this 7th century incursion spread the persians too thin, for that bubbling crude of mohammedians soon to explode out of arabia, with khalid wiping his dick on the byzies at the decisive battle of Yarmouk. Anyways, like everyone else (cept maybe the conspiring catholic papal braintrust) persians were caught off guard. Yeah they held out a few hundred years but zoroastrianism really took it on the chin. Only those zagros mountain mystics could keep the fires lit.

You have to be a fucking sandnigger for Islam to make sense to you.

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>>132290622
My ancestors converted when the message of Allah came to them because Zoroastrianism is fire worshipping trash

>Oldest Monotheistic Religion
>Strong Morals, good/evil light/dark dichotomy
>degeneracy/decay called "druj" must be purified
>stresses purity above all things
So,Zoroastrianism is basically Christianism without the kike part?

@132290883
>baiting this hard for (you)'s

>>132290896
Shut up. Byzantines were enemies of Persia. Heraclius even burned fire temples.

>>132291040
All religion, but Greek philosophical dialectic, is trash.

>>132289127
Jesus fuck i come back and see this shit

>t. Arab rapebaby "Iranian American"

Shut the fuck up Ahmed. No where in this thread did i discuss acting like or pretending to be persian

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>>132291040
How can you not tell that Islam is just fucking retarded?

Oh wait , i know why. Cause you're a sandnigger and it justifies your sandniggerish behavior.

>>132290411
>upgraded to a better one
My sides

Your ancestors became fucking retarded because of generations of incestuous marriage

Cyrus is rolling over in his grave

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>>132291444
Persians are not Arab rapebabies. I don't appreciate you following my ancestral religion and then calling us rapebabies when some of us disagree. Persians are closely related to Caucasus people like Armenians and Circassians.

>>132291444
That's all your posts consist of. You see Persians as superior to whites, so you think by adopting the religion Persians threw away that you'll somehow be one or become accepted as one.
And the 0.03% of zoroastrians in Iran don't allow converts contrary to what you said earlier.
>>132291478
Because unlike you I actually am knowledgable about Islam.

>>132289796
I never said i worship Persians you goatfucker

I highly admire the teachings of Confusius that doesnt mean i suck chink dick. I do not know how you can misrepresent my statements this badly

This is nigger tier logic you are using
Please be a troll

>>132292024
I've already exposed how he is JIDF or CIA paid shill to portray Iranians in negative light. He gives very stereotypical images to make Iranians seem like niggers, and I've exposed his lack of knowledge of Persian culture many times. Just ignore him.

>>132291859
>You see Persians as superior to whites
Please oh please point out exactly where i said that

This strawman is unreal

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>>132291859
The prophet does not perform any miracles. Winning battles does not count as proof of his claims of being blessed by God you stupid sandnigger.

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>>132289127
Successive migrations from the middle east into Europe is what gave Europeans their white skin. They were originally swarthy. Ancient ritual flint wheat scythes were used in many religious ceremonies all the way into northern Europe. Trier was the first city in Germany and was founded by Babylonians. Zoroastrianism introduced the Heaven and Hell dichotomy to the world. Europe is directly linked with the beliefs of the middle east of old.

https://
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyria_and_Germany_in_Anglo-Israelism
The only link to the region of Germany by Assyria are the expeditions into that region such as the ones by Prince Trebeta who colonized what is today Trier, which is annunciated by the Archbishops of Trier in records known as the Gesta Treverorum.

https://
www.thetrumpet.com/article/7490.24.128.0/europe/germany/the-remarkable-identity-of-the-german-people
The oldest city in Germany is Trier, a city whose inhabitants say was founded around 2000 B.C. by the Assyrians.

Josef K.L. Bihl writes in his German textbook In Deutschen Landen, “Trier was founded by Trebeta, a son of the famous Assyrian King Ninus. In fact, one finds … in Trier the inscription reading, ‘Trier existed for 1,300 years before Rome was rebuilt.’” To this day, this story is used to attract tourists to Trier.

According to Greek historians, the ancient Assyrian capital of Nineveh was built by Ninus. The biblical account tells us that the builder of Nineveh was Asshur, the son of Shem, who became the progenitor of the Assyrians (Genesis 10:11). Ninus is simply the Greek name for the Asshur of the Bible.

It is clear that the Germanic people comprised, at least in part, this second phase of Scythian migration. We can know this because Roman records show the Germanic people first began invading central and western Europe in the late second century B.C., soon after their northern move.

>>132292349
*was founded by Assyrians

>>132291803
Dont be so thin skinned

Just because i follow your religion doesnt mean i have to suck your people's cock, much like how one can be a Christian without being a raging Judaophile (is this a proper term?)

>>132291322
Oops, i meant khusoro said fuck phocus and Heraclius, campaigning in part under pretense of loyalty to rightful ascension ended with military coup oustering Maurice & killing him & all his senpai.

>Dude im just a drunk burger of western euro ancestry but am drawn to the histories of Persia and the lessons of zoroaster a bit too.

We should be reveling independence and censoring the English today not squabbling over anatolia again. Nerd

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THEY SEE ME CRUSING , THEY HATING https://youtu.be/isxvXITTLLY

>>132292520
Most middle eastern people of today are inbred retards with low IQ sand nigger ancestors. Low IQ people are inherently zealots about anything. It takes actual intelligence to objectively accrue and judge a wide variety of ideas.

>>132292165
I should have known. Always the fucking jews.

>>132292349

You mean migrations from Central Asia right?

>>132292447
*twas not

>>132292349

>the first city in Germany and was founded by Babylonians

Oh wait, you're retarded.

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>>132291738
Incest was all Zoroastrians did. They encourage marrying your mother or sister to keep the wealth in your own family.
>Cyrus is rolling over in his grave
Why would I care about some kaffir from thousands of years ago?
>>132292024
>I never said i worship Persians you goatfucker
Yet you follow a dead Persian religion. Really made me think
>>132292189
In all of your posts you worship a dead religion and culture that was thrown away ages ago.
I hope for you're sake you're only larping. You're 100x more pathetic than those pagan larpers. At least they want to reclaim their ancient culture while you want to adopt someone else's.
>>132292349
WE WUZ MIDDLE EASTERN N SHIEEEET. WE WUZ WE WUZ.
I never knew whites were so full of self hatred that they try and tell themselves they are descendants of the people they want to deport. I guess success breads jealousy ;)

>>132292520
I am asking for respect, which is what my ancestral religion teaches. I've also had dreams of communicating with Zarathustra and Sassanian kings, but I'm not sure if it was just my mind playing tricks or something more significant. Regardless, I do have deep respect for Zoroastrian traditions, Greek philosophy, and Roman Mithraism.

You should at least treat me with fucking respect and not insult my peoples. I recommend reading Stephen E. Flowers if you want an interesting mix of Zoroastrianism and Germanic Neopaganism, btw. See, we can have a well-mannered discussion if you stop being an edgelord. I have also written short stories based of Zoroastrian myths fyi and they may be published soon.

half persian here

my ancestors were Zoroastrian up until pretty recently, they converted to (((((Shia Islam)))) in the early 1800's. Guess they were tired of being 2nd class citizens.

>>132292736
Read the second article. Many middle eastern peoples fled to the steppes and came to be know as Scythians by the Europeans.

>>132292782
>>132292447

>>132292790
Modern middle eastern peoples are inbred retards who can barely wipe their asses, let alone build majestic empires.

>>132292905
Is that considered hypergamy?

>>132290896
I never claimed that Zoroastrians were free from degenerate or destructive behavior, only that their religion has distinct advantages over the other mainstream monotheistic faiths

Zoroastrianism technically did not have Persian origins. It has Sogdian/Bactrian origins. I believe Mithraism had Persian origins though, but eventually Persians did embrace Zoroastrianism which relegated yazatas under Ohrmazd and His support of Amesha Spentas. Proto-Indo-Iranian religion gave foundation for the development of these, and it was made by peoples of Sintashta culture who were racially Eastern Slavic.

Look into this.

http://archive.is/QFysU
https://www.xen.altrugenics.com/xf/index.php

>>132292790
You offer no arguments as to why i am wrong to believe as i do

You construct strawmen and rely on childish insults

I will be ignoring the rest of your posts as they offer no constructive criticism or intellectual value whatsoever

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>>132293007
Look here:
>>132291803

The migration of Proto-Indo-Iranians was not enough to shift the genetic pool of indigenous people of Zagros Mountains. Persians were and are Caucasus people.

The Persians, Sogdians/Bactrians, and Scythians/Sarmatians/PII were all racially distinct from one another. Image is from Sassanian artifact.

>>132249550
>Why aren't you a Zoroastrian /pol/?
Because I wasn't born one and they don't accept converts.

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>>132293367
>>132293007
Here is another Sassanian artifact.

>>132292826
I meant no disrespect to you as you have made very insightful and constructive posts

The anon with the muslim flag was just offering childish insults, to which i returned the favor

>>132293048
Pretty much. Guess my great great great great grandfather wanted to advance as a bureaucrat for the Qajar dynasty.

>>132293451
As ive stated before, nothing in the Avesta prohibits conversion. The babylonians, assyrians, and even the persians themselves converted at one time or another.

The religion has Bactran/Sogdisn roots as this anon points out>>132293169

The prohibition on conversion is a recent development, probably a result of islamic oppression. They didnt want to be wiped out after being accused of leading muslims to apostasy.

Here is more on Persian genetics:
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/131859388/

Granted, I do think Proto-Indo-Iranians, Scythians, or Sarmatians tended to be Central European in appearance and genetics, probably. So yes, Europeans can be a part of Zoroastrian tradition. However, they should realize Ancient Persian Empire was not racially homogeneous.

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>>132293367
I was talking about the Assyrian migrations into Europe.

Persians have been subhuman clear back to Roman times. They valued Roman captives and built multiple cities for them, so they could show them how to not be backwards subhumans.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-29213892

Pigmentation genes carried by the hunters and farmers showed that, while the dark hair, brown eyes and pale skin of the early farmer would look familiar to us, the hunter-gatherers would stand out if we saw them on a street today.

"It really does look like the indigenous West European hunter gatherers had this striking combination of dark skin and blue eyes that doesn't exist any more," Prof Reich told BBC News.

rare effort thread desu senpai

/pol/ is basically dead at this point

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>>132294055
Zoroastrianism did permit conversion. What's your opinion on Roman Mithraism? I actually think the story of Mithras slaying the bull is more powerful metaphorically than anything in Zoroastrianism.

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>>132294177
"There's an evolutionary argument about this - that light skin in Europe is biologically advantageous for people who farm, because you need to make vitamin D," said David Reich.

"Hunters and gatherers get vitamin D through their food - because animals have a lot of it. But once you're farming, you don't get a lot of it, and once you switch to agriculture, there's strong natural selection to lighten your skin so that when it's hit by sunlight you can synthesise vitamin D."

>>132293007

Scythians were literally Indo-Europeans that didn't leave the steppe. Germans are related to Scythians but they split apart before becoming seperate cultural identities. Proto Indo-Europeans invaded the middle-east, not vice versa. You're full of shit.

>>132294177
I gave you a genetic study. Also, you are confusing Alans/Scythians/Sarmatians for Persians/Bactrians/Sogdians. They were racially distinct. Alans/Scythians/Sarmatians came from Central Asia, not the Middle East. Also, Persians are not subhumans. The USA's Persian diaspora is actually quite successful.

>>132249550
kek is the new religion. It will grow stronger and replace Christianity in the West.

>>132294236
Ive looked into Mithraism a little bit. Trying to educate myself more on it.

I am drawn more to Zoroastrianism as a parent religion because its essence started so many movements and im trying to get as close to the "core" of dualistic monotheism (which i see as the ultimate form of spirituality) as i can

>>132294368
From my own research, it's Poles, Croats, and Ukrainians that have Sarmatian/Scythian descent. The Northern Ossetians have Alans descent, predominantly.

>>132294368
>Proto Indo-Europeans invaded the middle-east

>>132294508
I was talking about Assyrians, Scythian's(who were comprised of many different peoples), and Germans. You're the cunt that keeps bringing up genetic Persians.

>>132294656
Scythian also took to the seas and colonized northern Europe(i don't know to what extent).

>>132253730
>That Urheimat location
>Believed by anyone
pick one

The most widely held hypothesis is that the Urheimat was on the Pontic Steppe. The leading alternative theory is that it was in Anatolia. Only a few Soviets bought into the Armenian hypothesis.

>>132294368
>Proto Indo-Europeans invaded the middle-east
sauce?

>>132294598
I do not think early Zoroastrianism was monotheistic. The idea of angels and demons, metaphor of light and dark, bridge to afterlife, and so forth came from Zoroastrianism (check Chapter 7 of Michael Stausberg's Zarathustra and Zoroastrianism). However, the idea that Ohrmazd is omnipotent, all-knowing is flawed because the world was created through his conflict with Ahriman, even manifesting as certain phenomena. It is true that Ohrmazd has an edge over Ahriman, and that it is prophesized the Saoshyant will come at the end of times, realigning the word with Ohrmazd Order/asha (Frashokereti), but still, Ohrmazd never created Ahriman. In the New and Old Testament, YHVH created Satan to mete judgement, and he is omnipotent, all-knowing. This leads to problem of evil imo.

>>132294656

I agree with that statement in that the Eastern Europeans you mentioned are probably more similar to Scythians. I'm simply saying that Germans and Scythians come from the same original cultural group (PIEs in Central Asia) but were seperate for what? Several thousand years?

>>132294834

Rather Indo-Europeans did.

MAGICIAN

Knowlege is being dropped on this board indeed. Ok im a bit of an amateur in this area, some of you are experts, but no one addressing these ideas
> Zarathustra rejecting the polytheistic Aryan Vedism of the day. Be it djinns or even the remnant religiosity brought with the aryan invaders of India? im thinking a post kurukshetra diffusion had spread bactri from the subcontinent to iran. in which case was Zoroaster rejecting the est spiritual, and political authority or am i a dumbfuck?
> actual birthdate of Zarathustra?
> ezekial and jeremiah jacking zoroastrian montheistic ideologies while those jews were in babylonian capitivity ? if this is shit tier ignore

>>132294834
I'm talking about how modern Persians are not genetic trash and how they strongly relate to their ancestors. You called them genetic trash, but they did develop and popularize Zoroastrianism, which you praised.

>>132289144
>Zoroastrianism did not come from Hinduism.

reread the post retard I didn't say that

>>132294917
Hittite is an Indo-European language. They invaded deep enough into the middle east that the area around Aleppo was under their control. Technically that is invading the middle east, albeit not conquering the entire area.

>>132294917

The Hittites were an indo-aryan peoples based in Anatolia and they at times invaded and conquered parts of the middle east including the levant.

>>132295104
>polytheistic Aryan Vedism
He rejected polytheistic Indo-Iranian religion. It's not called Aryan Vedism... though Vedic though did develop from Indo-Iranian religion.

>djinns
Arabic term. You mean daevas and yazatas and asuras. In Vedic religion, daevas are benevolent, whereas the opposite is true in Zoroastrianism, the flipping probably signifying a kind of rivalry.

>in which case was Zoroaster rejecting the est spiritual, and political authority or am i a dumbfuck?
Zarathustra wanted to give a foundation of all values by relegating yazatas under Ohrmazd. He was against sacrificing bulls for Mithra, and he made the bull sacred too. I think Zarathustra's goal was a moral and transcendental one, as Nietzsche proposed too.

> actual birthdate of Zarathustra?
It's debatable. I think probably 1000-800 BC somewhere.

>zekial and jeremiah jacking zoroastrian montheistic ideologies while those jews were in babylonian capitivity ?
I don't believe Zoroastrianism was monotheistic in that Ohrmazd did not create Ahriman.

>>132289796

>implying Persians aren't superior to arabs in every way

>>132295586
>Vedic though did
Vedic thought did*

>>132294978
I certainly agree that early Iranian/Bactrian/Sogdian tribal religion was not monotheistic, but we have to come to an understanding of when that tribal religion ends and Zoroastrianism begins.

See the fact Ohrmazd and Ahrimann are near-equals and created separately is one of the primary reasons why the faith was onto something. Satan exists only to tempt man but Ahrimann/Angra Manyu is a natural force unto itself, much like Entropy. Not a living breathing thing but a force which divides and corrupts. We see this all around us. Things die. That which is created fades and weakens. Ahura Mazda is the eternal, the good, the ordely.

>>132291040

>Islam takes the majority of its practical traditions from Zoroastrianism
>Islam has to forcefully subjugate Persian culture by writing anti-Persian traditions into the quran
>Persians still never became arabs like the rest of the arab rape babies
>Persians still created 90% of all muslim scientific and cultural advances

>"trash"

lol ok habibi

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>>132295276
>>132295498
Did the Hittites have genetic origins in Europe? I didn't know that, always considered them middle eastern. I've heard the Greek gods were taken from the Hittite pantheon. Do you have links to Hittite origin stuff? I've always liked their style.

This is a really good thread. I have to go so i cant make another right now but i hope you guys will continue this discussion. I'll probably make ankther thread tomorrow.

>>132295834
The Bundahišn argues Vāyu, which is like wind, created both Ohrmazd and Ahriman as equals, I believe.

>>132290284
If i remember right, Shapur 1 built 37 cities for his Roman captives, so they could teach them Roman know how.