Minimum Wage and Automation

Minimum wage increases like this will speed up automation.

If we weren't importing so many third world workers, we could abolish minimum wage. The problem is we are importing and allowing in large amounts of people that quicken the race to the bottom line for wages.

>>132238464
>Will it hasten automation? Will low skill workers have 0 opportunities in a couple of decades?
Yes and yes. I'm an employer in a country that has minimum wage laws. People stubbornly refuse to understand that competition is fierce and drives prices down. The net wages people take home are not what it costs me to employ them. My cost is their gross wages. Having a minimum wage enforced by law forces me to have less employees and squeeze them harder in order to stay afloat. End result is higher unemployment which is bad for the economy in the end.

>>132238464
Opportunities are already virtually zero for low skill jobs

If you don't believe me, open an ad for a bartender position on Craigslist and your inbox will fill with a hundred replies in five minutes

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>>132238464
if you cant get a better paying job your living wrong
seriously, how retarded do you have to be to actually rely entirely on a minimum wage job

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>>132238464
We've been able to automate most jobs for almost a century. The reason it's not done in some industries has nothing to do with either technology or pay. If the minimum wage goes up, it will continue to be offset by price increases, not automation. Who primarily eats McDonald's food? People who earn the minimum wage. It's a never-ending cycle that will end in a crash, not automation.

>Ontario is going to have a 15 CAD (~11.53 USD at current exchange rate) minimum wage in a couple years
Even in trades/engineering, jobs are getting difficult to acquire.

>>132239106
t. Welfare state citizen

Try to understand that youth in this country actually have to work and don't get a welfare stipend every month

>>132239228
>trades/engineering

>implying trades are in the same league as engineering

>>132238464

If you raise it, it will become unsustainable.

Besides, you can always find some dumb nigger that will work for less.

>>132239228
Kids in Ontario are also taught that being self-employed makes you an oppressor and it's your duty as a Canadian to work for packies and chinks.

It's another

>pol shills for their capitalist jew boss, to make HIM more money and of course to fight le bommunism

I hate le Jews but my boss that sits around doing nothing with his >Muh financial risk :^) is a hero capitalist hero I wish I could lick his anal cavity.

>>132239207
This anon gets it.

>>132238464
you can't automate a local diner, maybe a McRobot but not a place like pictured,

Legislate to give workers a share of the profits that would be equitable.

>>132239258
thats right, youth
you get $100 a month for studying at high-school and about $300 for university education
youth working for extra money shouldnt demand high pay
if you have to work for a living as someone with no experience, get a fucking trainee job as a mechanic, construction worker, whatever's avaliable
increasing the cost of labour only hastens the transition to automating the job because the cost gap shrinks

>>132238464
>LA restaurants will no longer be able to hire mexican rapists for $7.25/hour
>Instead will have to hire more qualified, harder-working whites for $12/hour
>Service quality will improve
>Less desirable employees like spics are priced out of the job market and forced to move back to Mexico

Can someone please explain to me why /pol/ thinks this is a bad thing?

>>132238464
Hire more undocumented migrants

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>>132239509

>>132239319
Engineers who think poorly of the tradesmen they work with are always giant fuck-ups. If the drafter says "It won't fit" or the welder says "Fuck that", maybe don't do it?

You don't want to be the guy who says "Make the blind pocket with 90 degree corners on all sides", forcing the machinist to plunge EDM a pocket that would take 30 seconds to machine with a corner radius.

>>132239258
He's right though. You should get some skills and get into a job that requires more than your hands. That part of the workforce that has no higher education is swelled by illegal immigration. If you aspire to work on a low-end job you'll be competing with mexicans who pay no taxes and get welfare.

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>>132239442
Yeah these threads are pointless most of the time.

Comprised of ancap underage kids, minimum wage workers, neets in moms basement, and a few spoiled college kids who have life all figured out. Also wendys chefs

No intelligent discussion ever happens

>>132239542
>you can't automate a diner

People once thought the same about retrieving water from a well, but you don't see us paying numbnuts with buckets to stand around and pull water out of the ground anymore now do you?

Jobs become obsolete all the time as humanity pushes forward. To legislate against that is, well, to legislate against progress.

>>132238735
fpbp

>>132239741
They'll simply pay them cash under the table, skirting the entire system.

t. cousin used to do this all the time as a waiter, never paid taxes

>>132239775
You're not in the same league. You make significantly less and would make less still if you weren't in a union

>>132239791
Sorry but I'm not a third world Hungarian who does manual labor

>>132239741
>Can someone please explain to me why /pol/ thinks this is a bad thing?
can you explain to me why you think pol thinks this is a bad thing?

>>132239741
How much is 12$/h NET in $/h GROSS in your jurisdiction? Cause you, as the customer, will be covering the difference. What will be the end result when a lot less people can afford services at increased prices? I predict less employment, less money exchanging hands and being taxed and increased taxation to pay for the gummint spending.

>>132239987
So sorry my degrees didn't require I take a whole semester of humanities. I guess you can write the GCode for the 5 axis millturn, right?

>>132239856
That's the most retarded analogy I've ever seen, and I've seen some pretty retarded analogies. Literally nobody cares if water is pumped by machines. Every single person I know does not want their restaurant food to be cooked by robots and they don't want their waiters to be battery operated servos. It's almost as if humans prefer dealing with other humans and companies respond to that demand. Really makes you think..

~~~DAILY REMINDER~~~

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CRONY CAPITALISM. ANY OF YOU WHO SUPPORT A CAPITALIST SYSTEM SUPPORT A JEWISH SYSTEM WHICH EXPLOITS ANYTHING FOR SHORT TERM PROFITS.

>>132240284
~~~DAILY REMINDER THAT THIS ISN'T REDDIT~~~

>>132240284
>"Crony" Capitalism
Or you could just call it "Corporatism" like a fucking adult.

>>132240259
>prefer dealing with other humans
Yeah, no. At least 40% of my orders are fucked up by minimum wage wait staff.

You know what Red Robin has now? Little ipad kiosks at each table, where you order food and pay your bill. Guess how much people use that now, and guess how many people they've been able to let go because of it?

Your time is coming burger flipper, better learn how to fix robots.

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>>132240284
>THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CRONY CAPITALISM.
>oy veyy goyim! capitalism is all bad! support communism instead!
good try shekelstein

>>132239741
women in the workplave is far worse than foreign males believe it or not

>>132240364
Haha good goy >it's not reeeeeeeal capitalism

>>132240440
>heh I love shilling for my Jewish boss he is just a capitalist hero (he gives me a whole 2 days of break per week!!! How generous!!). That reminds me I need to go lick his boots clean.

>>132239741
Here are a few off the top of my head:
>Qualified and unqualified workers aren't exclusively determined by race though there will be a skew towards whites, sure
>Businesses are forced to pay employees more, forcing them to reevaluate their profit margins and determine whether to layoff current employees, refusing hiring more employees, and possibly shutting down operations
>Prices will rise since the expenses for paying employees are pushed onto the consumer
>Businesses will want employees with more seniority since they are being paid significantly more, the young and less qualified have to compete with the old and over-qualified
>Improving service quality is positively correlated with raising minimum wage

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>>132240432
>Yeah, no.
I really hope you don't say shit like that in real life..
>At least 40% of my orders are fucked up by minimum wage wait staff.
Probably because they know you're a faggot who doesn't tip
>Little ipad kiosks at each table, where you order food and pay your bill. Guess how much people use that now, and guess how many people they've been able to let go because of it?
Literally no-one because waiters are still required for doing all of the things waiters do that doesn't involve billing..?

>>132238464

wow, $12

whoopdefuckingdoo

>>132238464
The INTENDED effect of raising minimum wage is to get people out of no-skill labor and into factories making automation devices. It would be a good idea if only china didn't hold most of the high tech manufacturing jobs.

>>132240657
>>heh I love shilling for my Jewish boss he is just a capitalist hero (he gives me a whole 2 days of break per week!!! How generous!!). That reminds me I need to go lick his boots clean.
guess you cant read.

we're not using your shitty commie system btw.

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>>132240760
>probably because you're a faggot who doesn't tip
TOP KEK WAIT STAFF DETECTED

Hope you're ass blasted as I make 125k a year doing programming. fucking pleb.


>less waiters required because orders are all done via ipad
>less waiters required because paying is done via ipad
>literally below minimum wage niggers taking a plate from point A to point B
>expecting job security

Yeah, no. Now that the work load has been cut due to automation (i.e. ipad kiosks), less waiters are required.

GOD IT FEELS SO GOOD TO WIN

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>>132240981
Are you literally retarded? Automating payment has absolutely no affect on the required number of waiters.

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Here's another thing to consider that no one else seems to think about.

Let's say minimum wage is $9, and you make $15. You've been with a company for a long time, your boss thinks you're a good worker, or maybe you took on a bunch of extra responsibility that makes you worth $15.

Minimum wage shoots to $15.

Now, you make minimum wage. Also, everything around you is getting more expensive (because more workers are making more money), yet you still make the same.

I want to know what happens to all the people who ALREADY make $15, or $20, or $25 an hour. Will their wages increase to reflect the fact that they now make closer to the minimum?

>>132241084
It's just payment, orders have been automated too. Now Red Robin doesn't need as many single mom La'Trisha's to stand around for 5 minutes to take a single table's orders. All that time adds up, and eventually managers realizing they're paying servers to stand around.

Give it a few years, and we'll have conveyor belts bringing food to our tables. What a time to be alive.

>>132240981
>ipad
applefag detected. A reasonable business man would get a Samsung pad for half the cost. It will never need to play a game or do anything except run ONE piece of software.

State by state??? city by city more like it
Why should the minimum wage in the center of LA be the same as some gas station in the middle of nowhere for fuck sake be logical

>>132238832
Without minimum wage laws, people would somehow magically be paid more?

>>132241164
>I want to know what happens to all the people who ALREADY make $15, or $20, or $25 an hour.
nothing, you make minimum wage now. Leave you job and find one you actually like for the same pay.

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>>132241084

Look bud, I know you're the top server at your local TGI Friday's or whatever, but I'm not sure how you actually work in a restaurant and don't see that it does have an effect.

You have a device on each table that, even if it only saves waiters 2 minutes per order (lets say 1 minute to take the order, and one minute to take my card to the register [even though we KNOW it takes way longer than that.]), now you figure your restaurant takes 150 orders a day, that's 300 minutes a day that you just saved. Or 5 hours. That's one part-time shift.

Those two minutes can now be spent by someone else carrying my cheese poppers or pizza shooters or whatever to my fucking table.

And that 2 minutes that is saved is only the beginning, as more and more things become automated.

You are obviously a 19 year old waiter if you can't comprehend this idea. Just because YOU didn't get your hours cut, doesn't mean that it doesn't have an overall effect.

Also, those ipad kiosks don't call in sick, they don't need health insurance, they don't get injured on the job, they don't start lawsuits so they aren't liabilities, they don't offend customers, etc. etc.

How does it feel knowing that if you were replaced by an iPad, that it would be a net positive for everyone?

>>132241576

No, without minimum wage laws people would be paid what their job is worth.

>>132241576
No but bums with shit-tier jobs wouldn't be overpaid and increase everyone else's expenses.

>>132241821
so less?

>>132241164
Legally? Nothing. That's why you go and demand a raise. If you're actually that valuable then it's a nonissue.

Problem is most people think they're that valuable but aren't. Shittiest workers I've ever known were shitty because they felt they weren't compensated properly. Creating a vicious circle that just made them bitter and stagnant.

>>132241853

>there is only one type of job in the world.

Are you retarded?

They'd be paid what their job is worth.
If your job is simply to put coffee in a cup and stir it, you probably won't be paid $15 an hour.

>>132241853
A portion of the VALUE they create

>>132241853
usually

but happens to me if I make 1 dollar above min wage

>>132242148

Nothing, now you basically make minimum wage.
Also, everything around you is going to get more expensive, even though you make the same amount of money.
Good luck!

>>132242009
>pay shit for service
>complain about getting shit service

>>132242009
then automate those jobs, the fucking coffee stirrers can't even afford rent

>>132242010
>A portion of the VALUE they create
so what ever they deem fit and no adjustment for inflation?

>>132242275

Yeah because I really need to pay the girl who puts my coffee in a cup $15 an hour, because that coffee she squirts in there is SOOOO much better than the coffee that the $8 an hour girl makes. She's a better qualified coffee girl, I'm sure.

>>132242234
n-no

>>132242578
>then automate those jobs, the fucking coffee stirrers can't even afford rent

Ok, no problem, that will happen very soon.

But those coffee stirrers have NO job now, so now what's your next brilliant plan?

>Hurr durr just gib them fre moneys! Universal basic income!

Jesus christ...

these fucking threads make me cringe so hard because reporters//most of this user base obv have no grasp of economics

>LA
>Cost of living one of highest in world
>minimum wage raised to help all the dummies in service industry from starving//using all the welfares up

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Robots will produce vastly greater marginal revenue product and can become cheaper with lower energy costs, can be ordered in bulk with the price negotiated, won't get people's order wrong, won't be a social headache or legal liability, can be easily replaced/fired, and lastly won't demand a minimum wage.

>>132239442
>>132239799
>Samefagging nuredditors
You have to at least 18 to post here, kid.

>>132242585
>we want cheap shit, we won't pay our people 15$/h and the mexicans that want to work for pennies can also fuck off, we will pay our people $1400/month and chant USA USA

>>132242723
>But those coffee stirrers have NO job now, so now what's your next brilliant plan?
They will become fat fucking NEETs like you

>in b4 I'm actually on a business trip so I have time to shitpost at 12 O'clock

>>132242578
>so what ever they deem fit and no adjustment for inflation?
No. Employer has costs of doing business you goof. You get your NET paycheck but the employer pays your GROSS paycheck + operating costs. And he needs to make at least a little bit of profit too. I'm not arguing that all employers are decent human beings. God knows that MEGACORP inc. is run by people far removed from those in the bottom positions but even they need to cut profits to stay afloat in the market.

Are you playing dumb or do you really require me to get out my crayons and draw it for you?

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>>132242783

Exactly. There are no HR problems between robots, you don't have to have a payroll department to keep track of their hours and wages, you don't have to train them in sexual harassment policy, they don't call in sick, they don't throw fits, they don't steal from you.
Everyone needs to think about their job for a minute, can a robot do your job? Can a robot do most of your job? If so, you need to find a better job, because you're about to get absolutely FUCKED by big electronic android robot dick.
And it's only going to happen faster with all these minimum wage increases.

>>132242979
>They will become fat fucking NEETs like you

Nice try leaf-in-disguise.
I'm at work right now, literally getting paid to tell you you're a faggot.

>>132243109
>has time to post on 4chan isn't getting paid peanuts

>>132242983
there's like a fucking 10% tax rate and those starving restauraunt owners make as much as you in a couple of years in a month

>>132243435
>there's like a fucking 10% tax rate
Dude, drop your flag ASAP so I can see where you live and move there ASAP. I'm srs, nigga. I'll sell my left testicle to live anywhere where taxes are only 10%.

PS
If you ever create something of value in your life I'll revisit that 'starving' restaurant owners comment. Owning a business is a 24/7 job without the luxury of 'doing my part for the paycheck and clocking out'.

>>132238464
Try 2.75 dollars /hour
In my homeland.
Majority of workers are on less than 5/hour.
Raising minimum wage to to 7/hour would cause crash of economy beyond repair.

>>132238735
Whoa a smart American for once.

>>132243822
It's the fucking US, they have no fucking taxes

> you ever create something of value in your life I'll revisit that 'starving' restaurant owners comment. Owning a business is a 24/7 job without the luxury of 'doing my part for the paycheck and clocking out'.
Oh yes the incredibly complex business of owning a fucking restaurant

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>>132238464
lol, I know how this will go. This is LA.

They are going to fire everyone and hire all illegals and pay them shit. This is also exactly what "liberals" want.

>>132242585
>paying people just to put coffee in a cup
>literally having no idea what the concept of service even is

>>132243109
>at work
>not actually working

People like you are the problem, you will be purged.

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>min wage is raised
>corps move to automation
>(((government))) will tax automation
In the end, government just want money.

>>132238464
>tfw only college educated only deserve a barely liviable wage

why can't poor people just die already? We don't need them and I can afford my own health care because my Dad owns a car dealership. Its not my responsibility to pay any taxes for anything other than my own interests. Fucking minorities, if you don't make 50,000k a year you aren't white so you don't deserve to work for a living wage, you need two jobs to keep you out of trouble because you're probably planning on commiting crimes if you have too much free time

>>132241944
>If you're actually that valuable then it's a nonissue.
Protip if you earn anything within the realm of minimum wage you aren't valuable.

>>132244007
>It's the fucking US, they have no fucking taxes
Son, you are either 14 or have an IQ of 14

>Oh yes the incredibly complex business of owning a fucking restaurant
I'm not a restaurant owner but:
1. Rent or taxes on the space in which they operate
2. Water, electricity, gas, air conditioning...
3. Suppliers for everything needed to make meals
3. Suppliers for everything you sell as drinks
4. Shifts, workers calling in sick, managing everything so all that needs to be done is done on time
5. Dealing with snowflake customers thinking they are entitled for a free blowjob by the virtue of gracing your establishment with their presence
6. Local authorities sending inspectors to check you're up to the code (sanitary, firefighters, electricity, water, gas...)
And all of that is just off the top of my head without actually being in that business. That's the price of being the boss. You DO NOT GET to clock out at the end of your shift.

>>132243983
Almost as smart as the greecucks for not paying debnts

>>132244640
>1. Rent or taxes on the space in which they operate - property manager
>2. Water, electricity, gas, air conditioning... - property manager
>3. Suppliers - Supply manager/chef
>4. Shifts, workers calling in sick, managing everything so all that needs to be done is done on time - shift manager
>5. Dealing with snowflake customers thinking they are entitled for a free blowjob by the virtue of gracing your establishment with their presence - shift manager
>6. Local authorities sending inspectors to check you're up to the code (sanitary, firefighters, electricity, water, gas...) - shift manager and property manager
>And all of that is just off the top of my head without actually being in that business. That's the price of being the boss. You DO NOT GET to clock out at the end of your shift.

>>132244640
>>132244955
https://www.ftb.ca.gov/businesses/faq/717.shtml

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_statetaxrate_CA.html

>>132238464
I guess some workers will have to celebrate getting laid off. What is funny is that most of these workers don't have an union because they have almost zero bargaining power. They are barely worth what they got paid before.

>>132245170
your "minimum wage" is still higher than theirs, how the fuck does Denmark stay afloat with a higher minimum wage, higher sales tax and higher corporate tax

These people are insane, more people equals less demand for employers to hire, more cost equals less people hired in the first place.
This shit only works if the demand for the product goes up.
That's fine for minimum wage jobs, but fuck me this isn't helping people get out of minimum wage and I don't know how these faggots don't see that.

I don't give a shit about minimum wage, what about the jobs right out of minimum wage that aren't increasing dollar per hour?
What about the low level supervisory positions that stagnated to an all time low.

Seriously, look at any manager position at any low end store (hot topic for point of reference).
A HT manager makes like fifty cents to a dollar more than the regular workers.
How the fuck is that fair that you're doing a much more stressful job and not getting a fair share increase?

My girlfriend has to completely redesign a fashion store every other week, it's basic engineering, but it's still engineering.
She has to work her ass off, researching fashion trends, colors, store size, It's a shit ton of work and she only makes 13 dollars an hour.
She is good at her job and makes her company endless dollars. Yet they keep spending money on these low wage fucks who are fired every week.
Just fire them and pay the people who work hard more.

Anyone else in this issue?
My job is research so i'm good and can pay the bills, but it's stressing her out.

>>132238464
In LA? Fuck yeah it should. In Wyoming and other states with a cost of living? Fuck no. California, Florida, and New York should no doubt get larger minimum wages.

>>132245407
>how the fuck does Denmark stay afloa

No niggers, homogeneous society.

>>132245028
>State tax in US is the only tax
And that negates all I posted. All the operating costs magically vanish and all invested work vanishes too. TEH OWNER is evil cause he does nothing all day long, keeps all profits for himself and, naturally, has no competition to worry about?

I REPEAT
When you create something of value, contact me and we will discuss your previous statements.

>>132245623
The minimum wage in WE is pretty much higher everywhere than in the US

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>>132238464
>How to destroy a business

People should get paid what they earn, if you want to get paid more, work harder, better, faster, stronger, etc.

If you boss doesn't pay you what you think you are earning, ask for a raise, get another job, work for someone else or better yet, start your own business like I did! Fuck knows how much I'm getting paid an hour, sometimes £3 sometimes £50.

Future prediction if this shit continues;
Small businesses will die. Low skilled moron workers of giant corporations will be loaded. The only other option will be self employment making nowhere near as much, even if you're a highly skilled worker. SUCH INCENTIVE, MUCH WORK, WOW, MANY DEPRESSION.

>>132238464
Minimum wage should be set on as local a scale as possible to ensure minimum deadweight loss while maximizing it's ability to counteract monopsonic effects in the market. In the US that might even be on a sub-state level.

>>132245623
>he does nothing all day long
That's not true for the vast majority of businesses.
Fuck, half the places I worked the owner would even clean the washroom/take out the trash regularly because it was more cost-effective for them to just take the five minutes with a mop than pay someone to clean it.

>>132246173
Our 'friend' hiding behind the ass-pirate flag doesn't seem to understand that. Hell, I've never worked so hard until I went solo and became responsible for keeping my business afloat. I sometimes reflect fondly on times when I was just an employee and would clock out at th end of the day and enjoyed some freedom.

>>132246173
overseeing shit doesn't mean work, ffs I see what my fucking boss does in a company that makes multi-million deals

>>132246080
>Small businesses will die. Low skilled moron workers of giant corporations will be loaded. The only other option will be self employment making nowhere near as much, even if you're a highly skilled worker.
Thats how it already is, except those low skilled moron workers of giant corporations think they are high skilled people while posting on facebook safe from punishment due to unions and claim its everyone else who is being lazy

>>132238464
How the fuck does saying "if you are not worth $12/hr to your employer, go play vidya in your basement, I'm not gonna allow you to work" solve anything?

>>132246723
like this highly skilled and productive nigger >>132243109 ?

>>132241576
Yes. No idea what's magical about it.

What is magical is you writing '$12/hr' on a piece of papaer and expecting everyone to suddenly be worth $12/hr to their employer.

>>132246532
Have you considered that maybe that's more the exception than the rule?

Have you considered that companies like that are the ones least likely to give a shit about minimum wage changes? They can scale up and down as necessary or just fucking move shit to China/India.

Hell, the biggest company I worked for was the largest of its kind in Canada and most of its clients were in the US. We're talking about a proper multinational corporation worth 80+ million. The contract I alone worked on was worth millions. One of the three owners was a bit of a schmuck, but all three of them were running around all day chasing potential clients, dealing with suppliers, resolving issues in design, manufacturing, finishing, assembly, shipping and installation. This after more than 40 years of them busting their asses as immigrants to Canada building the company from the ground up. Motherfuckers were retirement age and were only holding the reigns long enough for their kids to take over, all of whom were younger Gen X or older Gen Y.

>>132244007
>Oh yes the incredibly complex business of owning a fucking restaurant

best example of a dunning krueger. guy who can't get hired in a restaurant says it's easy to own a restaurant chain.

>>132247169
What was the bankruptcy rate for restaurants, again? Just because a person can make tasty food doesn't mean they can into logistics and shit.

It's like when a company says "My daughter can draw! Why should I hire a graphic designer?!" and they end up with a website that is physically painful to look at.

>>132239207
I get the sense that automation is happening everywhere though. It's not necessarily just robots, it's the closure of entire service sectors due to the internet.
eg. I wonder what happened to all those blockbuster jobs?

>>132247393
CGP Grey actually made a great video on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

AI is becoming so flexible that people can't conceive how much of the workforce is going to be unnecessary. Even Engineering can and will be automated in the long run unless society as a whole crumbles (which, to be fair, is fairly likely).

>>132240259
Some industries are certainly going to be more automation proof than others. Family doctors, masseuses, etc. Restaurants are probably not in this category.

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>>132246417
Tell me about it!!!!
You employees don't know how easy you have it.
At the end of your work day, you can almost certainly stop working and stop thinking about work. Maybe clean your uniform, organize your lunch, but that's it for most of you- I know, I've worked jobs like that... But what if you had to bring your entire office home with you? Equipment that's almost too heavy to lift? Then arrange your next work day, buy all your supplies, figure out how to get your entire office there? Figure out the fucking ridiculously complex taxes you are supposed to pay to keep the government off your back. Being self employed is harder but it's the best thing I ever did in my life.

>>132247685
>Family doctors
Watson and other systems like it make diagnostic work and prescriptions much easier. A move I'm very excited for, having dealt with more than a few incompetent doctors.

As for restaurants, it really depends on the complexity of the meals. Pizza places, coffee shops, burger joints and the like are going to be mostly automated within a decade.

>>132242723
>so now what's your next brilliant plan
population control or UBI or both

>>132247990
Population control will just be done through WW3 and a draft.

>>132243109
>I'm at work right now
This is probably the reason why "productivity" has increased and wages have stayed stagnant. Your job is being done quicker due to the computers and programs your boss owns and we dick around on 4chan all day.

>>132238464
>Should it be raised? Abolished? State by state?
It depends, desu if you're really trying to do things the best way it should probably even vary by job.

Automation is coming either way.
It's not like most businesses keep on employees out of charity, they'll replace them as soon as it's viable.

>>132238464
>LA is supposedly more progressive
>Has homeless living everywhere and trash all over the place
>Everyone living in the city is rude, selfish, and privileged
>Seeing a big sign and a fancy sidewalk are actually considered "things to do"
>People park in middle of a 4-way intersection just so they can turn
>This plugs traffic up for miles
>San Francisco has had 15 dollar minimum wage for years
>San Francisco always has a huge amount of people moving through it but doesn't get clogged as badly, because of the efficient roads and signs
>It's easy to move to and from San Francisco
>It's very difficult to move into and out of LA
The idea that people actually live in LA for longer than a month makes my skin crawl. Very close to Hell on Earth.

>>132244210
Not all services are equal. Something as simple as putting coffee in a cup isn't on the same level as say a masseuse or nail stylist. You are paid what you are worth and worth is determined by your skill set and how hard that skill set is to find. Pouring coffee in a cup is something even a retard with no hands can do. Why is this so hard for you retards to understand?

>>132248083
>tfw when the guy who showed you an interesting video and really understands the scale of the changes automation will bring is also a conspiracy lunatic.
sad!

>>132247169
I'm employed as a programmer, but ok. There's literally nothing complex about owning a fucking place where you have people cooking and bringing out food

>Have you considered that maybe that's more the exception than the rule?
No, that's how bussiness should be run. They're just overseeing their own business. You have one fucking job and that is your managers reporting to you and you solving any potential issues

>>132244518
Here's a thought. Put your own money where your mouth is since you seem to worry about them so much

>>132239741
Hahahaha you actually believe this
When it went up to 10 here all that happened was 4 white guys fired and one spic hired to do the work of 4 and not complain

I wouldnt even go to work for that pay.. How do you even profit after gas, food, necessities?

Im no Dem but I think id rather collect food stamps than go to work 5 days a week for a small ass fuck paycheck.

>>132248571
Is this the example of a dunning krueger effect within a dunning krueger effect.

First time I see it in the wild.

>>132248571
You and the other guy are half right and half wrong. There's not much specialized knowledge needed to run a restaurant, but it's "hard" because attracting good labor, and getting a good reputation is almost as much luck as it is work. Combine that with a million other small but necessary tasks, plus adhering to codes, and it combines to make a juggling act that causes burnout in a lot of owners and managers. That being said you're 100% right about how it will get automated. Automation is going to be pennies vs the labor dollar much sooner than we all think.

>>132248571
There's nothing complicated about being a programmer, all you literally fucking do is type some words on a keyboard.

You're a glorified overpaid secretary. Imho these over privileged fucks are getting paid 100k/yr for just sitting on their ass and typing shit on their keyboards.

That's how you sound - seriously, look up Dunning Krueger effect.

>>132239207
prices aAND jobs. There will be less workers and less will be made than before,

>>132248521
>Conspiracy lunatic
Yeah, sure thing, bud. The EU is setting up its own military and tensions are rising all over the place, but war isn't possible or even a good thing for the elite who run world politics and economics.

On the bright side, any war you'd be drafted into wouldn't require bayonet rushes into machine gun fire, so... hurray?

Raising minimum wage also increases cost of living. Its a cycle that gets more vicious the more it goes around.

The low skilled workers have no way out. However businesses will soon be finding themselves in a position to embrace automation.

>>132248571
And as for being a restaurant chain owner, a lot harder than just typing all day.

Just sayin'

>>132239228
what are you talking about, engineering is ez as fuck to get a job. There are employers every year that come to my school and offer people three or four jobs.

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OMG ALL THE FARMING JOBS ARE BEING AUTOMATED ITS JUST A MATTER OF TIME UNTIL A BASIC INCOME

>>132249222
Honestly if we just kill all the horses they'll stop taking our jobs

>>132248842
>>132249047
say dunning krueger effect one more time before you fuck off back to r

>>132249220
You don't live in Ontario though, do you?
I hear Indiana is pretty good for engineering/trades... Or maybe I'll move to Wyoming or something and churn out guns/accessories.

>>132249109
>the elite
smdh. I'm a drone pilot anyways so... job security.
No but really, lets be specific rather than vague. USA politicians, NATO leaders, and the heads of the Military Industrial complex dont need either ww3 or the draft to keep making money hand-over-fist. the USA has an obscene military budget to fight terrorist groups who organize in caves.

>>132243017
>big electronic android robot dick
Don't give them any ideas.

>>132249222
>not realizing that this job used to take a dozen fieldhands 3x more time, and that there are 'drone combines' now.

>>132238464
Im fine with this LA is full of rich people, they can pay for it. I like the president this sets whete only rich liberal cities raise the minimum wage, since i will never go live their anyway

>>132238464
It would be best abolished in my opinion, but ultimately it should be up to the state to decide.

>>132249558
Look... At the very least, we're going to see violence erupt in Europe over gun control/the migrant crisis. Poland/Czechia/Hungary clearly want none of that shit and it's only a matter of time before people stop using words. I wouldn't be surprised if you guys went to war with Mexico, either.

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>>132240259
I want replicators fuck off faggot!!

>>132249109
>war isn't possible or even a good thing for the elite who run world politics and economics
Pension funds are filled with IOUs. They need a good war as an excuse for inflation and asking people to give up on what they were promised.

>>132249661
>and that there are 'drone combines' now.

Oh I do know this, I have family members who are farmers.

The point was the mechanization of farming raised many of the same concerns in the 1800s. All these rural jobs were simply disappearing and some believed that something akin to a universal basic income would be needed.

What actually happened is all those unemployed field hands could now work in factories. Freeing up human capital tied to the farms is one of the major things that allowed the industrial revolution to occur.

>>132238464
This happens every so often where the min wage is raised somewhere, pol goes into a meltdown and every time it has little/no effect on employment.

You're gonna need a hell of a lot more than $12/hr to make it in LA, better be working 2 12$/hr jobs at the very least. The rich will be paying for this in taxes anyway, they can afford it.

>>132249684
The precedent this sets is awful for any suburban/rural areas in the same state/province as these huge cities. The 15 CAD minimum wage is going to kill entire communities in Northern Ontario.

>>132249979
>BUY WAR BONDS!

>>132249832
>I wouldn't be surprised if you guys went to war with Mexico, either.

This would be monumentally stupid on Mexicos part since they are reliant on US energy exports.

Maybe there will be some weird US military actions against he cartels though.

>>132238464
Maybe corporations should pay their fair share of taxes. Then we could guarantee a basic income for all.

>>132249832
>violence
that's a bold prediction!

>war with Mexico
no chance. People don't even know what all-out/conventional war between nations looks like anymore. These conflicts would last days, even hours.

>>132241576
No minimum wage laws here in Norway. Only certain industries have a minimum wage agreement (not by law) because of the unions.

And people are still paid what their labor is worth.

>>132238464
Itll breed even more degeneracy by brining in more automation. Teens are already lazy pieces of crap because illegals took away any job they might have. This will only exacerbate the problem

>>132250000
Right but now the factories and the service industries are threatened AND ALSO we have massive welfare that isn't quite UBI yet. Where do you see human labor going? it might be 4chan's nightmare - the arts.

>>132250061
Let all of California implode then
The sooner it does the sooner we can rebuild or wall it off
I say we raise the minimum wage there to 15 already and give it a year see everyone complain about no jobs and have trump telling them California has failed them he can make it better by making robots taxable to 90%

>>132250238
stop bragging, we all know Norway is awesome -.-

>>132250183
As far as Mexico is concerned, I'd expect very quick overthrow of government (<1 month) and then a constant PITA of trying to keep the peace as the whole country continues falling apart (business as usual, there, lol).

>>132250238
Doesn't your government regularly schedule trilateral meetings between business leaders, unions, and the government itself; and also like 75% of jobs are union jobs?

>>132250411
I like the idea of California splitting up. Northern California doesn't deserve this shit.

State of Jefferson, when?

>>132250238
That's because you have unions. How much interracial BBC is there? The women there probably drool over it.

>>132241164
production has quadrupled since the 1970's, but wages stayed the same.

A CEO is not worth 1000% more than an engineer at 60-100k /year salary. You absolutely cannot justify such a salary of a human being that sleeps and produces just as much as most of the workers below them at maximum efficiency.

I'm not saying most corporations are like this, and corporations are a bad thing; however, when you look at wealth distribution, even in the most libertarian way-- it's still pretty fucked up.

This is why we have such problems.

>>132242979
>not getting vacation for the weekend through 4th of july.
You do have a meme flag, so I assume you're underage.

>>132238464
America's metropolitan areas can afford it. They're crawling with wealthy people. The middle class (both middle class occupations and salaries) is disappearing, unless lower level jobs are paid more.

>>132250485
That's actually the best solution to cut it up
It has too many delegates anyway and LA makes too much choices for an entire state the size it is I wouldn't mind building a settlement in central CA and making it a right leaning state

>>132250411
Things will get really interesting when we turn of there water spigot

>>132250344
>Where do you see human labor going? it might be 4chan's nightmare - the arts.

Yeah, there are plenty of things humans can do well that AI/automation simply can't, and arts is one of them.

Manufacturing has been going through automation for decades, but there are many areas where humans will still play a role for the foreseeable future.

Service industries are most likely to be hit, but I have doubts that they will completely go away. Fast food sure, but stuff like actual restaurants I find very unlikely. And sales people will still be needed on the floor in retail.

Ultimately the point I was making is predictions like automation will kill all the jobs have been going on for nearly 200 years. During that times tons of professions have completely disappeared due to technology, but that technology has also created tons of new jobs.

>>132250749
Hell, many places in California are shall-issue for CCW's. It's mostly farms and small communities up there. It really is just the southwestern part of the state that fucks everything up.

>>132239618
Wait, wait. Your fucking government gives you a god damn allowance when in high school?

What the fuck sweden. My mormor would have hated what you people have become.

>>132238735
>race to the bottom line for wages
the american dream

>>132239741
affirmative action laws?

>>132250907
There are already AI's that produce music. It won't be long before a more advanced Hatsune Miku singing to an AI-generated song is in the top 40 on the radio.

>>132250344
"The arts" shouldn't be a nightmare though. I'm going to groom my daughters to open a dance studio in adulthood, where the future "overclass" will pay buttloads to "enrich" their children.

>>132240981
>doing it yourself is automation meme
its not true automation, basically you got rid of the waiter and and handed the pad to the customer and he jots down his own order and runs the POS himself

>>132249327
go fuck yourself you socialist piece of shit.

go kill another baby or whatever you psychotic fucks do in your free time.

>>132250481
Yes, unions are immensely powerful here, with 49% of working people being organized.

The fact that the unions in the US were corrupted early on really took a shit on your workers.

When I was in my early 20s and had a contractual disagreement (contract was illegal and employer broke oral promise) I was luckily part of a union. Didn't think they'd do much except make a few phone calls, but they sent 2 lawyers to bring forth my case, and threatened to go to court. And the 21-year old pissant that I was, got my way (the agreed upon way) against a massive company, while only paying a fraction of my salary in membership fee.

Also helps that 50% of the union membership fee is reimbursed by the government.

>>132251001
>he thinks a $100 allowance while studying is hard

Try $400/month in Norway.

>>132251436
#triggered
I love the underage summerposters. someone should find out how many more ancap flags show up in June.

>>132238464
>Will it hasten automation? Will low skill workers have 0 opportunities in a couple of decades?
Yes. The silicon valley oligarchs are using min wage as a carrot on a stick to increase demand for their services that will provide the automation.

>>132251492
In Canada, when we were still debating getting rid of the Long Gun Registry (useless, expensive piece of shit), the Canadian Auto Workers Union campaigned to keep it. Auto Workers (tradesmen in general, really) have one of the highest firearm ownership rates in the country. Being FORCED to be part of a union and then having your union dues being spent campaigning against your interests in something completely unrelated to your job is fucking lunacy.

>>132251492
>based scandies
Yeah there was a war of attrition in the mid 20th century between owners and union leaders. Read about the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1952_steel_strike if you want to see some shit flinging post war green and exhaustion.

>>132238464
If raising the min wage got rid of poverty, then why not just set it to a trillion/hr and then everyone could be super rich...

>>132251807
Don't they have alternatives?

We have like 5 different unions , and I can only think of one that involves itself in politics.

>>132252251
Oh, and those politics they involve themselves in are never of the social character. Only economical, to benefit the working class.

>>132252026
That's not how money works anon

>>132252251
Not as far as I know. Also, they merged with another union (the Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union of Canada), becoming "Unifor" with ~310k workers and associate members.

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>>132251695

>>132238464
Funfact: liberals support higher minimum wages to make automation more economically competitive.

It's the real reason Bezos and Musk are insufferable libtards. It promises to sell what they are pimping.

why is there a coorelation with increased wealth inequality, becoming less white, and setting the table for communism

its almost like some kind of end game agenda

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Ready to take your job.

>>132245889
it really helps if you have less niggers to give gibs to
although we're importing their sand-cousins now so our economy is gonna crash soon

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>>132238464
We should abolish the minimum wage and hasten automation as much as possible, but also establish a universal basic income. That way we maximize burger production and minimize labor and poverty. Automation will be a solved problem and more automation will only make things better in the future. Meanwhile everyone will have money to spend on these automation products and keep the economy running strong. Instead of wasting time flipping burgers, people will spend their time trying to make some luxury money by getting jobs that matter or inventing new jobs in creative fields.

>>132238832
Don't say that. Those poor people actually think that they will benefit from a hiked up minimum wage. You're going to break their poor little hearts with all your evil racist truth. Let them continue to live in their fantasy world for just a little while longer.

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>>132253333

hmmm

>>132239369
Kids in Ontario are being lied to by people who hate them.

>>132238464
It'll be fine, would you fucking relax already?
The world's not going to collapse into pieces around you just because one fucking state is raising their minimum wage.

You fuckers need to get your priorities straight. There's much bigger fish to fry than whining about how minimum wage is going to effect your imaginary start up.

>>132238464
daily remembemer raising minimum wage is against white interest because minimum wage is a codeword for fucking niggers in a white country

>>132239741
Because it won't happen. They want mexicans here and they won't do anything to hurt them. They've been working non stop to drive whites out of the state. They would rather watch their own mothers get gang raped by refugees than to ever do anything that would encourage mexicans to go home and make more jobs for whites and better service for customers. In short the mexicans aren't going anywhere and the government will drive the state to bancruptcy to make sure it says that way.

>>132240259
The fact that Internet sales are larger than retail sales proves otherwise.

>>132240259
I want my food cooked and served to me by robots so I don't have to deal with humans who fuck up, get my order wrong, and expect tips for doing their job.

>>132256607
it proves fatties dont want to shop on their legs

>>132259125
Do you have any statistics to back that shit up? Young, fit, and smart people are more likely to shop from the internet than old, fat, and dumb people.

>>132259290
cause america

>>132259442
Yeah, what about America?

>>132259517
fat

>>132259740
Yeah, what about it?

>Boomers push for automation
>Can't work a self checkout

People are too stupid to know that this is going to destroy more than it's going to benefit.
Fix inflation first, then you won't have to fix anything else.

>>132260527
They push for automation in places where they don't have to see it or use it. They're too old and/or weak to work in factories now, so they don't care if their old jobs are taken by machines. Most stores still have at least one human cashier alongside self-checkout, so they can be blissfully unaware of the self-checkouts all they want.

>>132261441
This.

If the value of your dollars wouldn't be decreasing every month, you wouldn't need the minimum wage because some years later the minimum wage will have to be increased again.

It's the fix to a symptom, not the cause.

>>132240840
Kek

>>mfw they actually pay me $1.05/min to write C#