/jpg/ - JORDAN PETERSON GENERAL

>>132230270

Guy is beyond based. Seriously. Was listening to his lectures last night.

>>132230323
I agree, what did you watch?

>>132230270
His advice is really helping me get through a rough spot right now, nothing but respect and gratitude to this man

I've been watching his lectures on all kinds of subjects during this week. They challenge me, they make me expand my thinking, it's great. I have always been the creative, emotional type of guy, but Jordan is giving a name and a label to every value I wanted so bad.

Orderliness, manliness, rationality, it's all in me, I just didn't know how to look for it.

>>132230323
How do you action telling the truth if you have been lying to yourself and others all your life?

>>132230270
I think ive listened to all of his lectures, I also re-listen cause i need something in the background when im working out.

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>>132230270
Yeah he is a good bloke. I started reading some of the books he recommended and fuck me it is changing me into a better man already. Gulag Archipelago is a fucking red pill that has me going to bed in tears some nights. The law of /pol/ is to not blink and to stare into the abyss - I think Peterson has done so.

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>>132230270
meh

hes ok

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post your best peterson memes

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However sound Peterson's psychological advice can be (and often is), his undermining of cause-effect reasoning because "muh synchronicity" is spoopy magic bullshit. If he pathologised a defence of the material reality of Jungian archetypes in purely anthropological terms (which, to be fair, Mircea Eliade argues, whom Peterson includes in his Psychology lecture series) he could make a philosophically materialist case, but at his core he's open to the same criticism Russell levelled at Hegel - the conclusions preceded the reasoning, even if the reasoning and conclusions are to some extent true.

>>132230496
That's really great to hear, always know that you're not alone
>>132230501
Yeah it really feels like his "philosophy" (I'm not sure if I can call it that way) just lets you see the world in whole new dimensions that you didn't even know existed
>>132230794
>The law of /pol/ is to not blink and to stare into the abyss
True, and remember that you grow stronger by doing it

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>>132230323
I thoroughly enjoy his lectures

I'm a psychology student currently, and I enjoy learning from professionals.

I enjoy listening to his lectures on behaviour, mental disorders, developmental psychology and social psychology.

I also like his social commentary, given that it's actually somewhat grounded in reality.

>>132230270
TFW Mr. P recommends reading beyond good and evil to stop me from being a Nazi but instead ignights my will to power inspiring me get into politics and establish a white ethnostate.

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>>132230971

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>>132230971

>>132230794
I want to read gulag archipelago, but I'm afraid, senpai. What do, what makes it such a hard read?

>>132231373
>what makes it such a hard read?
That you're a communist

>>132231148
Peterson's endorsement of Nietzsche seems pretty counter-intuitive given that his main principle is meant to be opposition to totalitarianism in all its forms. It's proof that he is at least partially a Romanticist in the old sense, even if he's very Kantian.

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Peterson is the only teacher I'd willingly step into a classroom again for.
Good thing he's using the technology of the Information Age how it's supposed to be used.

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rate his daughter

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>>132231373
It will be different for every person but Solzhenitsyn set it up where I literally wanted to murder any and all Marxists - such was the hatred I had for them in the stories he relates and then in another chapter he shows how the evil is in each of us and that my murderous thoughts against the left were evil too. this quote was well placed in the book:

“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?”

I am only half way through but already it has made me red piled to the left and moral ideologies - I fear them more but I also have learned a lot more about people, politics and myself- it is a rare book that can do that. I recommend it but it will be like a Dostoevsky book: potentially hard to digest, haunting, but you will come out of it changed for the better with no regrets.

>>132231959
OY VEY

>>132231959
Damn - I would date her. Good gene I could make the quizat haderach from her line.

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>>132230794
The little girl who refuses to give up her mother's crucifix around her neck.

I died

Thanks to Peterson I reduced my laziness dramatically. I help my wife clean, i wake up early, doing online excel and coding courses, I even learned proper touch typing. I havent even had a drink in 7 months. Even last night I went out with a friends and I resisted liquor right in front of me. I also started his reading list. Ive been through Gulag, wigan pier, brave new world, and now Im halfway through the brothers karamazov.

Its crazy how little improvements makes your whole life more organized. Through hard work Im helping out my family while my father is dying.

>>132232281
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6g_geYeL4U

Her and her father both suffer from debilitating depression. She eats only chicken and greens for every meal because her food intolerance is so bad.

>>132231959
>he raised a feminist libshit
>this is why he's so mad all the time

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA

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>>132230971

>>132231959
QT

I'd be too embarrassed and fearful to have Jordan Peterson as my father in law though

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>>132230971

Holy shit this thread is so fucking gay, you should all commit suicide pronto

I don't know anything about this guy. Apparently some academic. But I saw a picture of him having the body language of a total nigger. Not going to ever listen to anything he says.

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>>132232437
>>132232806
>>132232281
can you compete with this alpha chad?

>>132232946
No one cares, ahmed. Your complaint is about as stupid as one would expect from a fucking arab.

>>132230270

"Heaven is a Kingdom and hell is a democracy".

That quote really fucked me up, can't wait for a Peterson led military Junta to sweep through North America and Europe.

Can someone post JP vids about Venerating the Father? I've watched many clips of him now and never heard him mention this once. I must be redpilled on how to rescue my father

>>132232980
>>132231959
In the most recent episode of his bible lectures he mentioned that his son is very lucky and opportunities just present themselfes to him while his daughter has one catastrophy happen to her after another

Now I think it isn't self evident whether she's a marxist because she's a victim of fate or whether it's the other way around

>>132230383
Religion lectures
t. Agnostic

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>>132232980
Yeah I can. But I don't want her anyway after seeing that vid. He can have her depressed ass with weird diet food issues and I will get me a normal one.

>>132233510
topkek good choice

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>>132230270
>mfw anons haven't sorted themselves out yet

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>>132230923
>being this much of a Freudian Odeapial archetype

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>>132230971

>>132230270
Listening to his lecture "Beyond Marxism and Postmodernism" right now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VwG6oaFxJs

>>132233333
i second this can someone explain the rescue your father point ? would be greatly appreciated

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>>132233510
I believe you

Starting my sorting tomorrow. Wish me luck, lads.

>>132231355
Kek, haven't seen that one before.

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>>132232806
>first date

>>132233704
>>132233333
Nice get

I'm not sure where I've watched this but I think it's an analogy about tradition and how the west is increasingly rejecting its traditions and needs to save them from the chaos that's represented by the underworld or else it will perish in the belly of the whale

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>>132230270
For those interested in mythology and society, I suggest researching Joseph Campbell's work. They share similar views on these kind of topics.

>https://youtu.be/RLUgZhLJCHk?t=2148

>>132233704
It's a central theme of most great myths. In Maps of Meaning he goes over Horus and Osiris. Osiris is the old king and he was great when he was young, but in his old age he became blind to the problems of the world. His son, Horus, was a mighty warrior with keen vision.

Osiris is murdered by his brother and it's up to Horas to descend into the underworld and rescue his blind father.

It's an allegory for putting away your childhood and saving what you can from your father's culture while applying your youthful vision to save it(Horas gives Osiris one of his eyes). It's a process that every generation has to go through to continue the traditions of our culture.

>>132232319
Good stuff m8. I like stories like that! Keep it up.

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>>132233760
Godspeed

>>132233333
>>132233704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7WkB4mDEgE

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>>132230270
Um guys?

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Well me personally, I LOVE Jordan Peterson. In fact I'd like to take this opportunity to mention our sponsor, Sortingbox. And what Sortingbox basically is, is you pay Jordan a low sum every month, about um, 40,000 dollars monthly, and in exchange you'll get a collection of little self-help advice sent to you.
I mean it's all stuff you can find in cheap 99 cent self-help books at your local thrift store, or in fortune cookies at your local Chinese restaurant, but really it's more about the EXPERIENCE.

>>132230270
Does anyone know his stance on marrying outside your race? I'm about to get serious with Asian gf, but I can't be fucked to dig.

Fuck off with this pseud
Doesn't he realize that his "answer" to post-modernism, is post-modernist in itself? He literally just riffs Camus about why you shouldn't be reading Camus.

>>132232806
itd be fun to argue philosophy with him
i wonder what his stance is on race mixing

>>132233333
>>132233704
Very rough summery: The father is culture. Culture is dead by definition, every generation must resurrect it for it to continue. There's a lot more too it than that, but I don't actually have any videos to hand where he goes into it in detail. He does tend to talk about it early on in each year of his Maps of Meaning lectures, though.

>>132234377
can I have a quick rundown on these cards?

Can someone give me a quick rundown on "rescue your father"?

He offers good psychiatric and psychological advice on improving yourself and your life.

However, his political views, specifically his understanding of the second-world ideologies is at a level of an indoctrinated child who's been told scary stories of a boogeyman living behind the Iron Curtain. He repeatedly summarizes his understanding of how life was in the "other camp" as something of a hell on earth, as a ruination of every principle that holds the human psyche together, and doesn't bother to educate himself on how it actually worked.

>>132231006
kek i fucking love those

>>132234462
Elaborate or fuck off.

>>132231485
>He made a false enemy and called it postmodernism like abstract ideas spread by themselves,didn't point who's will was to undermine western civilization substances,pivoting and fogging who the real enemy is.

It's really funny how people fall for this shit. Let's just break it down quickly:

On one side, you have the entire propaganda machine - media, education, corporations, government. This machine can propagate ideas and drill them into people's minds in literally every aspect of life, they are on every level, conscious and subconscious, from laws to advertisements to texbooks to unspoken social rules. This side has unlimited resources because it takes money from you to do it.

On the other side, you have someone trying to convince people that this can be fought by logical discourse and rebutting each and every single point you're bombarded with 24/7, with your limited resources and time (both of which you have to spend to even live).

Doesn't it sound ridiculous?

>>132234440
You should really try to get a consensus on the culture the child is being raised with because having a father that teaches it his culture and a mother that teaches him a completely different culture can result in identity issues later on

not one of you cucks are capable of defending pragmatism, i dare you

>>132234563
well our culture is not just dead but infested with aids, skull fuckt by niggers and thrown into the deepest ocean

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>>132234040
I read hero with 1000 faces recently and it along with Jung are pretty damn good. Imho Archetypes are indispensable to self actualization and finding meaning and becoming a psychologically healthy person. They are even more powerful now because they are being systematically destroyed or rather de-storied by the degenerate left right now so in a round about way their power in your everyday life becomes greater and they can be used to greater extent as aids through trauma or everyday life.

He is too rational, like Ron Paul was/is. So people wont take him seriously.

Is he our guy?

>>132231959
>Have daughter
>is feminist SJW
>Becomes a hero to slay the dragon who has hypnotized his daughter
>TFW when you realize this is personal to him.

>>132233182
Is he referring to tyranny of the majority, or is this deeper than I'm understanding?

>>132235013
> into the deepest ocean

With bricks attached

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>>132232946
How can you be so racist? Go clean your room.

>>132235263
his daughter isnt a sjw, you dingus

The biblical series is great. I think it will be his best work

>>132231959
She is pretty, but she needs to sort her hair out.

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>>132234825
What's Peteson's basic breakdown of "post-modernism" (really nothing more than an ideological straw man of a historical era's vaguely related concepts)?
That they want to deconstruct and question everything-- which Peterson mistakes for destroying, that they want to get rid of morality, that they're godless, classless nihilists who, by their very nature, hold the western world and culture in contempt.

So he does a couple things here, a) he mistakes post-modernism for existentialism, b) he mistakes existentialism for nihilism, c) he mistakes deconstruction for destruction, and d) mistakes subjectivity for lawlessness.

What's Peterson's answer to existentialism? "Sort yourself out, clean your room" i.e. Forget that life is meaningless and forge your own meaning in spite of "post-modernist" phil/culture. This is fucking Camus, this is post-modernism. Worst of all, he doesn't do very much to explain WHY they believe these things, or HOW post-modernism began in the first place, but instead forms a boogeyman just to shut down.

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>>132233985
>>132234141
>>132234264
>>132234563
oh my god thank you so much

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>>132230971
I have been waiting for the opportunity to arise to post this.

>>132232892
>t. Son who hasnt venerated his father

>>132230270
>pathological
How does nor having a jp thread make it pathological?
Are you using words you just heard and place them wherever you want?
That's not how it works...
I don't think you know what that word means.

Stahp!

>>132233839
You can have it friend.

>>132235437
Pick one
>not SJW
>Purple hair

>>132236372
>it has fur
>it must be a dog

>>132233349

she has a severe depression just like Jordan and I think she has arthritis as well

>>132234377
ch ec ked

>>132233633
Saved pic
Sweetie memes make me laugh.

I don't like Peterson because he constantly contradicts himself by fervently preaching about the supposed importance of striving toward goals that reduce suffering, yet he simultaneously promotes having children.

>>132236979
having children is short term sacrifice vs long term reward
you seem r selected

>>132236446
>walks like a duck
>quacks like a duck
Must be a tiger

>>132237193
Confirmed for not having children.

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One of the biggest criticisms I have with him is that he so desperately wants to be a Christian but isn't. He even talks about it and uses and chance to delay the inevitable to talk about if he believes that Christ is Divine and literally rose from the dead.
He even says, it all falls apart if you don't beleive it. I sense he has read a lot of Gnostic works and is very conflicted. Being at Harvard certainly didn't help him out.
World is very close to coming to a Holy war, where true Christians will be persecuted under all that follow the Gnosotic principles of Lucifer and other False Religions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0O8Jw6grro

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>>132236979
Golly gee I wonder what personal problem you have.

>>132236979
> Continuing your race.
> Not the happiest moment of your life.

Get out, you Jew.

>>132237354
The man's a pseudo pop philosopher who should stick to psychology, don't expect him to be a theologian.

>>132237321
confirmed for being shitty offspring?
I'm just getting started in my career and will be making sure my parents are taken care of before anything else. I would hope that's the case for most people, but I know it isn't.

>>132237354
The Christian religion is devoted to covering up the truth that Jesus ran a fertility cult and when he meant god is love he meant literal love
As in fucking
the stories of him cheating death and being THE son and not A son only serve to make Jesus a unbelievable freak of nature instead of a GUIDE

>>132233333
Your anscestors are dead. Preserving the fire (culture) requires effort on your part. We can live in the body of our dead ancestors for a while, but without the proper sacrifices devils will arise and turn the place chaotic.

It's both an inward and outward journey. Inward it is deriving value and meaning from your own experience as it relates to those who came before you.

Outwardly it would be to do what is meaningful for yourself, family, and greater community, and the world if you can manage that.

Peterson says to clean your room is a good starting point, because it's literally going into chaos and transforming it to order. He sees it as a divine act. This can help you train to recognize the other chaotic elements around you and transform it into order.

Also telling the truth as much as you can is a divine act and way of living. Most people have trouble with this so you can start by not telling lies. Telling lies literally creates a vast potential for turning the order in your life to chaos.

Choosing not to revive your dead father brings hell on earth.

>>132237258
so you will have no problem to produce evidence for her acting like a sjw. I will be waiting.

>>132235894
This one is great.

>>132238021
That's terribly wordy and flowery. Sounds like he loves the smell of his own farts.

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So how many of you have actually read post-modernist philosophy?

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>>132230270
the thing that has stuck with me the most was Peterson saying something along the lines of "Have your life sorted out so that when your father dies you're not useless and you can plan the funeral and be the reliable person"

My mom died when I was a kid so all that responsibility would fall on me and if life was more cruel than it already is there's no way I could handle that shit with how I am right now.

>>132238221
Peterson uses imagery to make his points.

Why? People get meaning out of myths and stories rather than commands. Motivational quotes can help people, but it's not as effective as a good story.

You can tell people to clean their rooms, or you can tell them that cleaning their room is a journey to the underworld and slaying a dragon.

I love it personally, it really improves my quality of life and happiness.

>>132236979
you're wrong on so many counts, but just to clear up one confusion: peterson intructs one to WILLINGLY ACCEPT suffering, not to eliminate it, which btw is a metaphysical impossibility, because that's where true meaning lies and is exactly what taking responsibility for your life entails.

>>132239099
His words are completely worthless even if they had meaning otherwise. It all comes down to a simple 'move your ass', you don't have to dress it into some fancy words, using divine as a coma.
Average youtube Chad is much better at motivational speaking.

>>132239306
so your criticism comes down to be a brainlett.

>>132239440
So it's better to inflate yourself like a balloon, because without larping you're unable to start living?

>>132239218
what you failed to grasp is that once you accept suffering, you no longer "suffer".

>>132239099
You do realize cleaning your room is really just him trying to push positive psychology right?
And that even the fact that you have to clean your room in order to feel that you have actual power and control over your environment is a condition of, well, the very thing that a lot of post-modernism sets out to critique right?

>>132235866
The problem with post-modernism as he lays it out is that they use subjectivity to ignore our very nature.

His answer is deriving meaning from our nature.

>>132231959
>Short hair
>Hair dyed purple

Oh dear!

>>132239639
Im not the on who shows an inflated ego while sitting on his local dunning kruger top. you are the one lashing out in blind butthurt. superbia is a sin for a reason.

>>132239989
What are you even talking about.

>>132239306
It's not a message about laziness.

Why do you think people enjoy movies and television, if it's all made up fantasy? Calling it flowery bullshit is such a surface critique. And if you chalk it up to escapism, and think it's nothing more I will assume you're an aspie.

>>132239890
>they use subjectivity to ignore our very nature
Which is?

Heidegger, who basically started post-modernism, claimed that the nature of human beings *is* subjectivity-- to worry and make a problem out of being itself. How can a person understand the world other than through his very individualized being, as the subject to the object that is the world?

Peterson doesn't talk about any of that stuff, but rather boils down subjectivity to "it's atheistic post-truth they don't believe in anything" bullshit. It's totally misleading. Were he to debate Zizek or even Nick Land it'd be the end of his "philosophical" career.

>>132232437
why? because she has purple hair?

>>132240575
he put out the gauntlet for everyone to pick it up. where are zizek and land to debate him? to cowardly?

>>132239218
>>132239778

You can accept it I don't really care, just don't try to impose it (existence) on the non-consenting, aka your would-be children. Well, you can condemn someone to life but you're a wretched person and a sadist if you do so.

>>132239849
I also realize that we are an insignificant speck on a tiny planet on some forgotten part of the universe. And that 200 years from now it's very likely no one will know who I was, so I can live however I want and not feel guilty about it, isn't that right?

>>132240503
Then what's so outstanding about starting a life, getting a job and generally getting your shit together and leaving your mom's basement.
Why does it warrant hour long tirades and mythologizing the most basic activities.

>>132240791
I think you're skipping a lot of steps. Why is it important that you're insignificant, won't be remembered, and won't make a difference in the "grand scheme of things"? You're a person who's currently existing, who's currently in social relationships and engagements with people, who's currently able to think and experience, at least so it seems, beauty and meaning.

Not sure how endgame heat death has anything to do with the life and lives of people existing right now. Even less sure how this view is in any way necessarily nihilistic.

>>132240885
The center of his preaching is self improvement, but not for an hour like you claim, 5 minutes tops.

90% of his lectures are talking about interesting things in psychology and history.

>>132233349
I thought he said it was his other son, like he had two sons. Maybe I just misheard him.

>>132238882
>Have your life sorted out so that when your father dies you're not useless and you can plan the funeral and be the reliable person

This is more important than most will realize. A guy I know is 26 and his mom still makes appointments for him, helps him look for jobs etc., he wouldn't even know how to shop for groceries for himself if he had to.

>>132241133
Well I think everything people do has meaning and it's not all about power. That's petersons biggest critique of post modernism is the belief that everything is a power game.

I want to get in on this. What's a good place to start?

the dad i never had desu

>>132235866
Peterson doesn't need to spend his time explaining what post-modernism is. That information is readily available to anyone who is curious enough to find out for themselves. He simply encourages individual growth and by that virtue, the preservation of our culture. Stop being such a contrarian.

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>>132230270
I watched the THREE hour interview with Joe Rogan yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USg3NR76XpQ

It's well worth it. I did it in 20 minute bursts as there's so much information there.
I'll have to watch it again and take notes for next time.

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>>132237757
>>132238447
>post-modernist scum detected
please put your commie flag back on and remove yourself from this thread

>>132240791
Compared to quantum scales, or even bacterial scales, we are ENORMOUS, EXTREMELY COMPLEX beings. On a scale ranging from "complete insignificance" to "godhood/omnipotence" we are actually pretty visible because we can conceptualize such a scale. We can think in abstractly about what it would be like to have limits far beyond those we have. Almost no other life has this ability. Hell, the incredible majority of mass in the universe isn't even alive.

>>132230270
JP followers are the stupidest motherfuckers on the planet. Don't you know he's a HARD authoritarian?

>>132242193
Go to his YouTube channel and start watching

>>132242193
I started with tidbits from Bite Sized Philosophy then started one of his lecture courses from the beginning. Maps of meaning is a good one.

>>132242615
>JPB
>authoritarian
how is that <80 IQ treating you?

>>132231959
I would unironically be as excited to have Jordan as my father in law as I would to bang his daughter.

>imagine christmas
>sorting everything out

>>132242935
He rambles on about the hierarchical pyramid and how everyone must listen to the alpha (and give him free money presumably) all the time.

>>132240575
You have no idea what you're talking about Peterson calls people out to debate all the time, why won't they step up?

He went on with Sam Harris twice, I highly doubt the faggots you named could go at him any harder than Sam and he came out unscathed.

>>132233487
Yeah really. I thought, "oh he's indulging himself with the Bible stories of his youth", but as he says in lecture 4, they're stories that go in a direction. Sure at a high-enough level of description you can make the underlying facts support anything, but still - that's some value-add view.

>>132243049
>His daughters face when you shove her aside to shake her fathers hand
>sitting down after Thanksgiving dinner to discuss post-modernism
>laying in bed after sex asking her if she thinks her father likes you
>marrying her in order to get closer to sorting yourself out

wew lad

>>132232090
There are a lot of leftists I know who REALLY need to hear this message. The fash-bashers are fucking DANGEROUS, because anyone they don't like, for almost any reason, is a fascist.

And they think they're such incredibly good people, they LITERALLY believe that they can do no wrong. They're enacting the very things that will cause the next round of massacres in the west.

If the legal system that keeps them under control loses its grip even a little, if they feel like they can get away with some evil shit, I honestly think they'll do it, and with no holds barred. The bike-lock guy wasn't an aberration. At least 5% of their movement is exactly that motivated.

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He talks a lot while saying nothing.

he used the same methods as any other hack professor to brainwash you sheeple. Damn, it's really frightening how easily you can brainwash and manipulate people in this world.

>>132242396
>doesn't even realize he's a Postmodernist himself.
Pretty pathetic desu, read a book after you clean your room

>>132242125
That's not really what Postmodernism is. Foucault is all about power, of course, but even he's really more interested in how power structures affect how people view existence, and the ways in which these structures obscure themselves.
Wittgenstein, Sartre, and Heidegger don't really give a shit about power in the way Foucault

>>132234377
Digits too nice

>>132243134
>He rambles on about the hierarchical pyramid
that's a fact of life, even animals have a distinct hierarchical order. only highschool anarchists think that a non-hierarchical system can exist. Authoritarianism is characterized by the inability to climb the hierarchy, not by its existence by itself.
>how everyone must listen to the alpha (and give him free money presumably) all the time.
what are you talking about?

also, neither of these have anything to do with being authoritarian.

>>132243347
the worst part is
>this actually sounds like a good deal

>>132230971
> post memes
No - fuck off. Go to /r/Jordan_Peterson_Memes or something. The memes are all low-rent simple-minded JBP-catchphrase cancer.

>>132242329
Peterson absolutely needs to explain what Postmodernism is before arguing against it. Defining your fucking terms is the first step to literally any argument.

>>132243134
The reason people reach the top of the hierarchy, assuming your society isn't totally fucked, is because other people want them there. JP's example of the brain surgeon is apt... It's hard to become a brain surgeon, and not everyone is cut out for it. But do you want to even the playing field to make it so the slightly less apt, less dextrous people can get a crack at being the cool neurosurgeon everyone looks up to?

Fuck no! You put the best people at the top BECAUSE THEY CAN DO THINGS FOR ALL OF US. You don't reward people because you think they're inherently worth more, you reward people because they've produced some good in the world, and if you're lucky, maybe they'll keep on doing it, to everyone's benefit.

You people see one example of a corrupt hierarchy, and you extrapolate that to assume that all hierarchies are corrupt. But if you don't have some way to wisely manage the talent in your society, to encourage those with something to offer to keep on offering it, it'll become a place where nothing works.

>>132243480
You literally told me that cleaning my room is a power game and accepting postmodernism would free me from feeling the need to control my surroundings.

>>132238082
Do you know her? This is the only evidence we have and it suggests sjw.

Are you her?

Pls be her.

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>>132243480
>states who is and who isn't a post-modernist
>doesn't state what post-modernism is
literally kike-tier tactics

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>>132243973
she was on multiple shows with bucko. she has an Instagram and a blog. your move.

>>132231959
Good God you can see JBP in her face. Would not want in a gf or wife.

>>132243837
Basically, being a neurosurgeon isn't a reward. It's society tapping you so that they can fully exploit your potential. So that when they or their loved ones have a brain tumor, maybe they won't die when some dumbass slips up and cuts an artery.

>>132237258
>thirsty neet virgins and their deep knowledge of women
>if she has colored hair she must be a SJW
/pol/ tribalism in a nutshell.
sort yourselfs out.

>>132234809
Solzhenitsyn. Did you read him, motherfucker?

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>>132243381
>People find inspiration from the teachings
>Begin to sort their lives out
>finding hope when they had none before
>becoming better people
>waking up earlier
>living meaningful lives

you must a seriously miserable fuck if seeing people doing well makes you this upset. let me know when he starts calling for people to obey his will in any other way than bettering themselves. I fucking hate people like you and I'm really glad you refuse to rescue your father.

>>132231006
Idealism is a valid philosophical theory.

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Never watched listened to this guy before. My autistic weeb friend is obsessed with him. Recommend me some good starting lectures, sound bites, little snippets, etc.

>>132233704
I think the 2nd Joe Rogan podcast, he explains it. If not, it's in the first.

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I am so glad I've gotten to learn about Jordan Peterson. I clean my room at least once a week, and am currently trying to do it to everyday.

>>132243801
He does explain what it is though, you just have to watch more than a snippet of his lectures. The point is, he doesn't need to spend an hour at the beginning of each lecture telling people exactly what he plans on arguing for or against. He's a professor on a limited time schedule.

U N S O R T E D
N
S
O
R
T
E
D

>>132233839
/r/Jordan_Peterson_Memes

>>132244444
fuck off back 2 reddit, faggot. you wasted quints

>>132234872
>Doesn't it sound ridiculous?
No. Because the point isn't to build a complete picture of the world. That's a hopeless goal, and it's not even that useful because who wants to live in a world that you already completely understand?

The point is to build yourself into the kind of person who can find the truth of any situation. It's to keep your mind healthy so that you don't go off the deep end or end up paralyzed when you're in unfamiliar territory.

>>132244444
wasted quints.

>>132243768
I like the memes, but you are right. They make people who never watched his lectures think all he ever does is tell people to sort themselves out. Then I come here and argue with people who think he's Tony Robbins or some shit.

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>>132233695
Literally 2 seconds in
>dragon
This guy is a bit of a caricature of Joseph Campbell, but I still like him.

>>132235013
Yes, and that is precisely why rescuing it is the heroic calling for our time. It's not just the cycle of rebirth and renewal but a full-on Carolingian renaissance that's being asked of today's generation.

I think that's why young fellows today are so electrified by his message. The structure is familiar and the stakes are higher than ever.

I've watched a fair chunk of his stuff now and I still haven't heard something I disagree with, the guy is fucking legit.

>>132244444
First appearance on joe rogan is a comfy intro.

But random googling is just as good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04wyGK6k6HE

>>132230270
I've seen this guy all over /pol/ ever since that one incident at the shitlib university. I've never watched his videos, but I'm finally intrigued. Which video of his should I start with?

>>132243940
I did, but I wasn't clear on the difference.
Cleaning one's room is a common therapeutic method to battle feelings of helplessness, depression, powerlessness. It's a positive psychological method.

What Postmodernists a la Camus, Foucault, DeBord are interested in is this very feeling of existential helplessness. DeBord, Foucault, and others (even non commies like Arendt and literal Nazi Carl Schmitt) trace this feeling to political and social structures. This is the power side of Postmodernism, it's ironic that Peterson basically does what Camus does and claims that it isn't Postmodern.

But this isn't all Postmodernism. More basically, Postmodernism refers to a historical period in which the previous Modernist vision of, basically, industrial enlightenment and philosophical models a la Kant, Descartes, etc are rejected and revised. This starts with Heidegger's Being and time, which is a refute of all western philosophy since the Pre-socratics

>>132244915
thanks. will listen to.

>>132243381
>t. 80 IQ postmodernist

>>132234438
> stuff found in 99¢ books
That part of it that is, is much better backed, so you'll more likely take it on board in a deep way.

>>132244745
He and Campbell are both Jungians, who see through a mythopoetic prism.

So, dragons.

I would say that it seems Campbell viewed himself (or presented himself) as being outside of the system he studied, while Peterson sees the role of the hero and feels that he himself must play it.

>>132244966
Either Rogan podcast or my favorite, Existentialism and Authenticity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_7hCPYgXEk

Also he has some good stuff on his website, JordanBPeterson.com

>>132243381
You are a small minded, intellectually lazy fuck

>>132244745
>Joseph Campbell,
They're both students of Jung, but Peterson is a psychologist, and concentrates more on individual struggles. Campbell had a more macro view of society and myth.

>>132244444
Make no mistake, /pol/ didn't pick up on him until Joe Rogan's first podcast with him.

>>132235866
> he mistakes post-modernism for existentialism
There's no evidence he makes this mistake.

> he mistakes existentialism for nihilism
If anything, Peterson promotes existentialist ideas as an antidote for nihilism.

> he mistakes deconstruction for destruction
This is the only point you made that isn't laughably ignorant. But still, it's not clear that he mistakes deconstruction for destruction. He has been fuzzy about the link between them, but this is likely for rhetorical expediency.

>>132245420
>watches Peterson
>calling other people intellectually lazy
lol

>>132243370
Keeps them under control? Right now, the legal system is protecting them.

The only reason they haven't already been purged is that our system is so infiltrated by their handlers that fixing the problem is akin to cutting out a tumor that has grown millions of little tendrils into a vital organ

>>132240575
The problem with postmodernism is that it doesn't JUST stick to its philosophical roots. If it did, it would probably not be the huge problem that it is, and it wouldn't be used as a justification for everything from giving children hormone treatments that will neuter them to lying in the media to fomenting violent revolution.

All the slimy, low-down tactics you see the left using... Redefining words to imply conclusions form the premises, the kind of western taquiyya where they mislead you into believing they're saying one thing, when they really mean another, working to "smash" your enemies (who you can't negotiate with anyway or you're supposedly validating their evil frame of reference) are justified by postmodernism.

But by far the biggest problem with postmodernism is that it became the perfect place for Marxism to hide after it was completely discredited at the end of the 1960s. If someone says "Marxism is bad" you can just respond, "well, I guess that depends on what you mean by 'bad'" or some shit like that. Subjectivity taken to a pathological extreme.

At the end of the day, we're all in the same world, and we have to be able to agree on how we're all going to live together. If you spend all your time navel-gazing in the corner about how you can never REALLY understand what it's like to be someone else, at best you're never going to achieve anything, and at worst you'll decide that only your frame of reference even matters and fuck the rest.

>>132231006
you forgot
>and read solzhenitsyn

>>132237354

Hi Faith.

>>132245542
So by that logic no one is worth listening to? Appreciating anyone else logical train of thought is intellectual laziness?

You sound like a postmodernist, bucko

>>132235196
>He is TOO rational
>(((Sweden)))

yep, checks out.

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>>132244444
shieeet! lets help him guys he got a kek pass.

>>132237354
Give up waiting, he's said he doesn't believe in God literally like a fundy would. He can't believe it literally, but he's trying to - wait for it - Rescue the Father by re-interpreting the Bible in terms acceptable to modern times. In terms of the problem of consciousness and of being alive (and knowing we're going to die, unlike the rest of animals).

>>132230496
Same here. His lectures are really helping me get my shit together.

>>132245613
No. Maybe not the legal system itself. Right now the legal system is still beholden to a consensus belief that we aren't a nation of savages, and that violence should not be tolerated, but responded to quickly, based on longstanding principles and sound judgement.

>>132245764
lol no, bad logic friend
Listen to actual philosophy lectures and podcasts by actual philosophers. Read the actual books by the actual authors before believing in a psychologist clearly out of his field.
You sound like a poorly read psued, no wonder you believe this hack

>>132246215
>Listen to actual philosophy lectures and podcasts by actual philosophers.
like?

If you had to pick just 1 of his videos as the most "helpful" or valuable lesson, which would it be?

>>132239922
> Young woman.

>>132246309
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtiRzQMgBDM

>>132246309
The clean your room meme is probably the most valuable thing as it is the very first step before you could embody anything else he says.

>>132232980
Why is this Chad throwing away his genes with the depressed daughter of a depressed conspiracy theorist?

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>>132230270
Ugh, I can't believe you even, seriously? I am laughing right now. I find humor in this. Haha.

Please stop listening to this man

>>132244335
I happen to have lived in the bloody country at an age where I was already capable of understanding social structures and such, and happen to be involved in the cultural spheres of said country since a young age. More specifically, film industry, and by extension theatre. My experience and the experiences of thousands of people I have interacted with over the course of my life lead me to believe that Peterson has no idea how similar the countries were. Solzhenitsyn's books are taught in primary school as mandatory reading for every kid at the ages of 15-17 these days, and they are quite shitty and unrealistic.

>>132246923
>they are quite shitty and unrealistic.
elaborate please

>>132245038
Your argument has all the hallmarks of a "logical" argument, something that has a premise that goes from point A to point B, but that's not at all what it is. It's an underhanded tactic to try and deflect criticism by not owning the true effects of your ideology.

It's a common postmodernist tactic to play with definitions of words in order to give a particular impression that they want, either diluting their "enemy's" understanding of something, or evoking automatic emotional responses to certain things (I.E. "safe spaces," young girls saying they feel "unsafe" evokes an immediate protective emotional reaction. You rarely see black bucks talking about how they need their "safe spaces."). They are keenly aware of the subjective impression that words and concepts give, and as a result, whether consciously or subconsciously, they move them around freely to reach their goals. IOW: PoMos use language instrumentally, not to strive for a greater understanding.

In this case, you're trying to use edge cases and early versions of the postmodernist ethos to give the impression that "postmodernism is not the enemy." Or even to impute that the person you're talking to doesn't understand the evidence of his eyes. But reality differs. The news media is basically possessed by the spirit of Derrida, Sartre is more or less responsible for the increase in divorce, convincing people they need to "find themselves."

Even if the label's fit is a little crooked, it's still useful as hell to call the movement that's causing all the major problems with society "postmodernism". Yes, maybe not all postmodernists ascribe to that same view, maybe not all postmodernists are equally and uniquely corrosive as the big 3, maybe Postmodernism originally referred, as you say, to just "what came after modernism."

But the people who have done the biggest evils in the world right now justify it with postmodernism. I think that's a good enough reason to keep using the label.

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>>132246291
The Partially Examined Life is a favorite of mine,
http://partiallyexaminedlife.com
Yale and Harvard have lecture series that are free online, this is probably the most popular one
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE0D425F951001F57

Philosophy Bites is fun for small doses of introductions, or for searching out fields that you might be interested in. It's not very good if you want a thorough investigation of anything though.
http://www.philosophybites.com

I'm also very partial to Zizek. He's a bit overrated and too pop focused at times, but A Pervert's Guide to Ideology is still a very stimulating and fun watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ch5ZCGi0PQ

Better than any of those though, is to find a basic philosophy syllabus like pic related, and use podcasts/lectures for supplementary info and clarification. There are philosophy chat groups and forums online you can use if you need a group.

The issue with Peterson is that he's trying to tell you how to think. He's essentially a motivational speaker who uses Post-modernism as a boogeyman to rail against. Philosophy is about impartial investigation. Going into philosophy to find an ideology, or to find evidence to support your own ideology, is fucking stupid.

>>132246291
I'd guess he's referring to people like Nietzsche, maybe Jung? I don't know really. He's probably just trying to be smug, ironically acting like a pseud himself.

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>>132230501
Fellow emotional and creative guy here

I think jordan said people high in openness need an intimate relationship, which is exactly what ive been missing in my life. Yet I'm scared of most people and find it hard to calm down in social settings. But im trying to formulate a plan to work on my self image and try to find an intimate relationship. Like today I had the opportunity to ask out a girl and...I just didn't. My brain shuts down and says no whenever an opportunity is presented to me. Fear? Just not enough practice or confidence?

Should I clean my room?

>>132238447
Debord was right about the distracted and dumbed down society. As well as the elimination of critical thinking and only the appearance of a true livelihood existing where a real livelihood once was.

However, the push for destroying and restructuring society and politics in the image of Marxism is where he becomes a disaster.

>>132236979
Do you not love children?

>>132245038
Those same feelings of helplessness existed long before any of that. People also raped and killed long before civilization as we know it. Society brought about the notion of an actual justice system and cut down on what the postmodernists like to blame on society.

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People who like JBP will love this site

RIGGEDIT.com

>>132230270
Jordan Peterson is the father figure that millennials with liberal boomer parents were missing. The man child crisis is a result of weak men being weak fathers and not raising their sons to become men. Jordan Peterson is the father figure millennials need.

>>132246215
Outside of referring to Nietzsche, it doesn't seem like he is operating outside of his field. There is a clear hard on for Jung and a bunch of anecdotes from interactions with his patients.

>>132245646
Congrats! You've made a big text post criticizing a boogeyman that doesn't have anything to do with prominent post-modern thinkers! I hope you were able to get your frustration out.
It may help if you were able to provide exactly what you think post-modernism is, how it justifies what you think it justifies.

>If someone says "Marxism is bad" you can just respond, "well, I guess that depends on what you mean by 'bad'" or some shit like that. Subjectivity taken to a pathological extreme
That's just discourse, dipshit. What DO you mean by bad? They're asking for a clarification of terms in order to be more precise in the discussion. This has been done since fucking Plato. Go read a book

>>132240791
So? Neither the small nor the large is your realm. Your realm is your world, your 80 years, your arms and legs.

And of course it matters how you live - it affects who you are, and what kind of life you'll have.

>>132246923
Solzhenitsyn very likely saw a side of the country that you didn't. I mean, being allowed to go to the cinema, and to act in the theatre? You were in a position of privilege. You never fell afoul of any commissars or were singled out by your political enemies. Lucky you.

Many of Solzhenitsyn's anecdotes, where the people weren't executed or the documentation destroyed, are backed up by eyewitness accounts and hard evidence.

Even if 90% of what he described in the Gulag Archipelago is false, it's still such an existential terror that it behooves us to do everything we can to avoid the same fate.

>>132242193
Also the two interviews with Joe Rogan. But don't think they're a tl;dr - a lot of what he says is psychological facts that are really something.

>>132247276
I think it's really the only route DeBord could take, given his criticisms. If the issue is that experience has become a commodity in itself, or even worse, the representation of commodity, radical anti-capitalist philosophy is really your only way out.

It would be interesting to see a perhaps more conservative version of the same basic premise, although it would be much much harder to do.

>>132246923
And you weren't working in the potato fields at 11, looking for non-existent insects the powers that be were paranoid that the americans had planted there, like happened with Yuri Bezmenov. You have to understand its your word against an entire complex of eyewitnesses and documentation. You're going to need more than "nuh uh!" to prove your case here.

Solzhy's account of the gulag is on the level of rollercoaster ovens and masturbation machines. What did you think a dissident who got a shitload of money from the west was going to write?

But of course Americans only believe one side of the propaganda. It's so funny (and as Peterson would probably say if he wasn't American, tragic and horrible and no one should ever live in a country like this and everyone must sacrifice their goats to prevent the world being like that and whatever the fuck).

Maybe you guys should start thinking about abolishing your secret prisons that still exist in 2017?

Could someone sum up what he is about? He can be a bit long winded and philosophy is just for people that struggle to act.

>>132232408
She can eat this dick nigga

>>132248204
You aren't saying anything-- you aren't making a case. You're just contradicting the consensus without providing any new information.

>Maybe you guys should start thinking about abolishing your secret prisons that still exist in 2017?
Has anyone in this thread let on that everything the west does is good and everything the east does is bad? Is that how you see this? A group of Americans gloating about their superiority?


This isn't a tribal thing! We don't believe we're special, or chosen. Most of us KNOW FULL WELL that everything that happened to you could EASILY happen hereWe are jacking ourselves off here-- we are uneasy, staring down an abyss, trying to map out the future.

>>132248572
>* AREN'T jacking ourselves off
damnit

>>132230270
Psychology is mostly a jewish technique, but since Peterson is following jungian aryan traditionm he's legit.
Freud is n1 jew though.

>>132248427
>be yourself
>be confident
>learn how to support yourself and your family
>learn basic skills
>figure out what you wanna do
It's basically just existentialism 101, but then he adds a bunch of anti-post-modern nonsense. It's made him popular on here because he doesn't like SJWs and equates them with Post-Modernists and equates Post-Modernists with Marxists.

He's really just a motivational positive psychologist.

>>132248427
The main point I take away from him is that the biggest mistake the left makes is wanting to tear down others instead of lifting oneself and others up. That's the worst sin of the SJW in my own view, blame shifting and wanting to achieve equality by bringing people down to their level. They never want to own up to the fact that they may be causing some of their own suffering.

What he tries to inspire people to do is reject both far right nonsense and far left mindsets to improve one's own life and in turn have a positive effect on the world around them.

Holy shit I looked up the Jordan Peterson wiki
>Its illegal not to call a tranny what they tell you to call them

CANADA IS A SHIT HOLE HOLY FUCK!

>>132248873
>>132248924
Thats quite reasonable.

>>132249085
To be fair that is just a Ontario thing currently.

>>132231959
I used to date her 2 years ago. Fucking wild chick. Kept calling me daddy and begging me to put it up her butt.

>>132248873
fuck off. he says none of those greentexts except indirectly the middle one.

>>132249239
okay Ontario is a third world shit hole. I wouldnt visit it even on a holiday.

>>132247545
>frustration
I'm actually sensing a lot of frustration from you.

>That's just discourse, dipshit. What DO you mean by bad? They're asking for a clarification of terms in order to be more precise in the discussion. This has been done since fucking Plato. Go read a book
You really can't deny that it's a common PoMo tactic to dissemble by quibbling over definitions. To act like this doesn't happen, even just at some times, just shows that you're either being deceptive or you're totally ideologically possessed.

By refusing to move on from a minor point, i.e. trying make sure your definition is "precise" enough, you hope to make the opposing side forget entirely about the original point they were trying to make.

>>132247830
I wasn't working the fields, my mother and father were though. Both from small villages around Kirov and Chelyabinsk, which I visited at least once every year while I had relatives living there. My position of privilege also happens to be the one place where the much-feared censorship took place the hardest, which I esperienced somewhat regularly. I can understand why Solzhenitsyn would get angry at this, but he isn't the end-all be-all go-to source to understand what the society was like, he's an extreme outlier who spent years collecting the worst exaggerated anecdotes possible to compile them into books that pretend to represent an every-day reality, while they don't

>>132249239
I'm pretty sure that the bill c16 passed

>>132248873
>He's really just a motivational positive psychologist.
Well, that's true, but there's a WHOLE lot more to him than that. The motivation that he attempts to inspire in people is aimed towards helping them build a better, stronger society. And that is aimed at making sure that we don't end up in another 20th century hellhole.

He's not a feelgood claptrap peddler. He has a warning for our species, about just how bad life can really get (and that there's no upper limit on it!)

>>132249185
I'm actually a big fan of Peterson's basic ideas, but his stupid pseudo-intellectual "critiques" of post-modernism are cringe worthy at best. He should really just leave that out. Positive Psychology already has a platform that doesn't include unnecessary phil bashing.

>>132249312
Kek, that's basically his message at the end of the day.

>>132249439
>By refusing to move on from a minor point, i.e. trying make sure your definition is "precise" enough, you hope to make the opposing side forget entirely about the original point they were trying to make.
You mean like what you're doing right now? You still haven't in any way explained how or why post-modernist thinkers justify or lend themselves to what you claim they do.

And your point about "a common PoMO" tactic is baseless. Everyone who doesn't know what they're arguing does that shit, not just Pomos. Asking for a clarification of terms, or trying to lay out agreeable terms as to avoid semantics, is just basic discourse. It's not a "tactic", it's a rule.

>>132248924
If the left behaved that way, they wouldn't be able to play out their resentment.

This isn't just a mistake they made... Well, a lot of people on the left are mistaken, no doubt... it's a goal that a lot of people want to bring about.

Humans are half made of chaos.

>>132249784
He never really says anything thats a revelation. The only thing I like about him is that he is willing to stand up to what is essentially bullying coming from some stupid college kids that should have been spanked as children.

>>132230270
I went on a road trip this past weekend and had several opportunities to discuss politics with my friends. I tried to channel JP's voice. I
definitely got them thinking. I will have to go back and listen to more of him.

>>132250095
>The only thing I like about him is that he is willing to stand up to what is essentially bullying coming from some stupid college kids that should have been spanked as children.
I can agree with that, but the way he's trying to do it is just embarrassing. You find out pretty quickly that SJWs aren't true to the post-modernist starlets. It's much better to beat them on their own terms, or by poking holes in their beliefs via "their own" thinkers.
Like Franz Fannon and actual Marxists can have a fucking field day with these kids.

>>132232818
This is a special image because the scan lines depicted make the image flash and grab your attention when scrolling.

>>132249784
Is Stephen Hicks a pseudo-intellectual hack?

Are there any videos of him talking about his personal life? Id like to see.

>>132249733
And he backs his stuff up, roots it deeply in nature, evolution, and psychology. That's new.

>>132249784
>his stupid pseudo-intellectual "critiques" of post-modernism are cringe worthy at best.
I'm starting to think that you know what other people are referring to when they use certain words, but you just refuse to acknowledge it because it would make your argument less sound.

>You still haven't in any way explained how or why post-modernist thinkers justify or lend themselves to what you claim they do.
Yes, I fucking have. Do you not read? Or are you just blind to things that you don't want to process?

I have laid out the process, from inception, to cognition, to results. You have, on at least one occasion that I can think of, did exactly what I said that PoMos do, after I said it.

When I said that Marxists use it to hide by quibbling over definitions of words, you immediately jumped to... quibbling over the definition of the a word. If I were in your shoes, I might have considered it a more pressing issue, and an easier target, to attack my assertion that Marxism hid inside of PoMo.

Sort yourself out, dude.

>>132250445
Its a problem that will fix itself. People who want to be reasonable will find themselves having to be radically reasonable more and more and it will armour itself.

Except in Canada. Where they will be put in prison.
What a bad country.

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>>132230270
Jordan Peterson is a CIA agent, you retards are getting schooled by this Jew.

>>132251200
What are his beliefs that would support the goals of the CIA?
What are the goals of the CIA while we are at it?

>>132249554
OK, but still. You're going to need to present better evidence than you have to make your case. Can you do that?

Did Jordan Petershit ever recover from being verbally BTFO by powerful Sam Harris ?

>>132250445
>'s much better to beat them on their own terms, or by poking holes in their beliefs via "their own" thinkers.
Neat. Why aren't you doing it then?

>>132234563
Beautiful

>>132250616
Yeah. This belief that rampant post-modernism was borne out of a failure of leftism is borderline insane. It also doesn't make any sense historically, given that a lot of post-modernism is the articulation/building upon/questioning of Heidegger, Hegel, Wittgenstein, Bataille, and Marx, (not that Hegel and Marx were post-modernists), who themselves were building off of and reacting to their precursors and so on.

His argument is total ideology, in so far as that, is total ideology.

>>132251160
You only stated that PoMo's use "precision tactics" to avoid arguments, you still haven't really gone to explain the
>giving children hormone treatments that will neuter them to lying in the media to fomenting violent revolution
or
Much less than that, you haven't explained how this has anything to do with post-modernism. It just sounds like Sophistry 101 which, again, goes all the way back to Plato.

>When I said that Marxists use it to hide by quibbling over definitions of words, you immediately jumped to... quibbling over the definition of the a word.
Because your claim was "Marxism is Bad". Perhaps I can assume that we both have an idea of what Marxism is, but your assertion about it, the "Bad", ought to be questioned in any discourse. It makes total sense for someone to ask you what you mean by that blanket statement, whether they're a marxist or not.

>>132247241
I think it's not enough practice and confidence, I don't fear rejection, I usually don't know what to say

>>132251200
I know - controlled opposition. It's obvious, you fagets! He was created by the mainstream media. Proof - I never heard of him until the bill C-16 was announced.

(For less sophisticated /pol/ons, is lame troll.)

>not nat-soc

why is this fag on my board?

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>>132251480
>atheist.

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>>132251368
Controlled opposition. The elites are using him in hopes of slowing or stopping current ideological pendulum swinging back to the far right. Basically some of the elites realized they shit the bed and want to stop the future hitler coming for them.

>>132249784
>And your point about "a common PoMO" tactic is baseless.
No, it's not baseless. It flows from its very foundation. If subjectivity is elevated to become the only canonical way of defining reality, then that means that you begin to believe that the world is made through perceptions, and furthermore, that you can manipulate it through perception.

Whether it's conscious or not, this leads directly to things like politically correct speech. Deconstructionism seeks specifically to "deconstruct" existing perceptions in an attempt to bring about some kind of change in the world. There's no such thing as something that's "not true," because as long as it's true for you it's true enough.

Basically, you believe that if you lie hard enough ("a man can be a perfectly good woman," "intelligence is a social construct", "gender doesn't exist, but some people are born the wrong gender") you can get away with cheating reality, or ignoring parts you don't like.

This is the basis of the language games the left plays.

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>>132251160
cont.
>I might have considered it a more pressing issue, and an easier target, to attack my assertion that Marxism hid inside of PoMo
I did actually just miss that in your post. Post-Modernism is just as capitalist as it is marxist. The book I posted earlier
>>132238447
paints that out pretty explicitly. At one point, Post-Modern leftists were attempting to create systems that would undermine power structures via media (culture jamming, graffiti, satire, etc.)-- of course what they didn't realize back in the '70s-'80s is that irony and rule breaking can actually be used to promote capitalism. You only need find your local Andy Warhol or Che Guevara shirt to see it in action. Late Capitalism, as a whole, is post-modern.

Not to say that that side of post-modernism is all of post-modernism anyway.

>Sort yourself out, dude.
I'm doing pretty okay in life. I just hate it when pseuds like you actively dissuade people from philosophy and discourse.

>>132251937
because it aint your board dumbass

>>132251930
That flag suits you, brainlet. Go play in traffic or fuck your cousin.

>>132230270
This man wants you to be strong, good goyim contributing to (((society))), holding (((World Order))) on their shoulders and making merchant who rules West richer with your hard work. Fact that he never talks about JQ also checks.
Status quo will only result in yids fucking you in the ass forever, Rome must fall and burn, there is no other way, and everyone doing something good for (((society))) is resisting its fall, playing in kike hands.

>>132251847
>It makes total sense for someone to ask you what you mean by that blanket statement, whether they're a marxist or not.
But there's a line that PoMos routinely cross, on one side you're trying in good faith to come to a common understanding, and on the other side you're trying to set up a war of attrition against the other, constantly throwing up new blockades rather than getting down to the core issue that caused the debate in the first place.

This has been your modus operandi for this entire discussion.

I think I know you from somewhere. Do I know you from somewhere?

>>132252389
So they support someone who is preaching common sense and rationality.
Hmmm. I might be working for the CIA too. Unpaid of course.

>>132231959
colored hair is a warning sign like animals have in nature

>>132236979
Recycle yourself out

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>>132230270
Individualism benefits jewish people.

Ignore lolbertarianism. Read about National Socialism and how it banned usury and war profiteering. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Program

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>>132252835
The kool aid tastes sweet doesn't it? Feeling sleepy? Shh go to sleep. Everything is going to be fine.

>>132253380
>banned war profiteering
>tried to take over the world
lol

>>132252464
This is a long post, beware.

>If subjectivity is elevated to become the only canonical way of defining reality, then that means that you begin to believe that the world is made through perceptions, and furthermore, that you can manipulate it through perception.
Not what pomo's say. By implying that you can manipulate perception, you imply that the world-as-it-really-is, is somehow detached or outside of you, a la Plato's Forms, Kant's phenomena vs noumena or Descarte. The major Post-Modern boys, Heidegger and Sartre, explicitly reject this line of thinking, "Back to the things themselves". They also don't follow Hume's "If I can imagine it, it must be real" sort of shit either.

Instead, what they present is the idea that phenomenon can only be understood through our engagement with them-- i.e. our perception of them. For example, Heidegger presents the idea that a Hammer can only be understood through Hammering. Knowing all of the scientific data of what chemically makes up a hammer tells you nothing of the phenomenon of the hammer. So, according to Post-Modernists, a Carpenter who has "practical knowledge" of the hammer knows more about the Hammer than a scientist who has studied hammers all of his life but has never used one.

It's better to think of Subjectivity in terms of Phenomenon and Experience, rather than Perception.

>>132252477
>Post-Modernism is just as capitalist as it is marxist.
You're not arguing in good faith, or you're too lazy to read.

I've read SotS, and it's a third-party critique of Capitalism through a PoMo-Marxist lens. This doesn't make capitalism PoMo, not in the least... At this point, you're trying to force discourse back to your own territory rather than trying to understand the other side.

PoMo, considered purely on its own, is neither Capitalist nor Marxist. It's really as simple as just triumph of the subjective, in so many words.

But I am not arguing from a "pure" philosophical standpoint, and I haven't been since the start. I'm not into abstraction, not that much. If you abstract yourself far enough away from reality, you can usually find a path from any premise to any conclusion you want.

What I'm saying, and have been saying all along, is that PoMo has become a movement. It's principle thinkers, the ones that laid the groundwork for what has played out since the late 70s or so, are exactly what JP and the people in this thread have been calling PoMo.

Maybe they have hollowed out PoMo's corpse and are just wearing it like a mask (which I don't believe BTW, but you'll find a slippery slimy way to abstract yourself away from the implications of the beliefs), using its tenants as justification for what they wanted to do anyway. This doesn't change the fact that when we look at the historical context, it's people who identify that way who are at the root of most of these problems.

>>132253954
>Whether it's conscious or not, this leads directly to things like politically correct speech. Deconstructionism seeks specifically to "deconstruct" existing perceptions in an attempt to bring about some kind of change in the world.

Deconstruction is really just another process of making the implicit the explicit, notably within literature, with a bunch of Derrida's ideas of language that I won't pretend to fully understand.

For an inaccurate shorthand, the basic idea is just to question the hegemony of knowledge by considering how the writer's language, the writer's background, the writer's possible influences, the writer's ideology influences the writer's meaning. For obvious reasons, socio-economic structures, etc. are important.

>There's no such thing as something that's "not true," because as long as it's true for you it's true enough.

That's just lazy baseless bullshit. Post-Modernism still requires good arguments and analyses. Post-Modernists still argue vehemently against each other with logic, there are still "rules".

>>132253954
This doesn't contradict anything I've said about PoMo at all. Maybe I didn't get my explanations as "pure" as you would have wanted, but it was close enough. If you were really arguing in good faith, and you really thought the distinction made a difference, you'd have made these points of clarification as soon as you saw an apparent contradiction, rather than dragging the whole discussion down into a slough of bullshit.

>>132253488
Na. Ill keep living my life as well as I can and if you try to fuck it up ill try to fuck you up.

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>>132234377
D-Did you photoshop this

this guy is kinda a fag. I bet I could beat him up.

>>132246041
Then why can a mayor just tell the police to stand down and allow riots to go on unimpeded?

>>132252464
>Basically, you believe that if you lie hard enough ("a man can be a perfectly good woman," "intelligence is a social construct", "gender doesn't exist, but some people are born the wrong gender") you can get away with cheating reality, or ignoring parts you don't like.

Sounds like someone hasn't read any gender theory in his life, and thinks that SJWs really represent academics. Check out Gender Trouble by Judith Butler, it's a fun ride.
I also agree that
>"gender doesn't exist, but some people are born the wrong gender
is a dumb argument. But gender theorists rail against that shit anyway, that's just Liberal bullshit.

Post-Modernism is arguably *more* concerned about reality than the Moderns were, because you no longer have this mystical realm of ideals that are out there and permanently unknown.

>>132254229
It does though. Because it's no longer about perception or will, but rather the phenomenological experience as it appears to the subject-- something that cannot be willfully changed or consciously changed.

Let's go back to the Hammer. I cannot willfully change the phenomenon of Hammering. Even if I think to myself "this hammer isn't real", I still experience the phenomenon of Hammering. Experiences don't bend to my ideology.

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>>132253672
Tried to save it from jewish usury. He spoke towards the end of the war about how the jews would try to destroy the white race, he was right. White genocide now is the reward the pathetic anglo pets got for siding with the jews.

>>132252389
He is part of the elites, you never noticed it because he didn't care much about showing off his being at the top of the dominance hierarchy. He's mostly acting on his own accord, as opposed to say people like Stefan.

>>132252847
zozzle

Can we just sit back for a moment and understand that, as with almost every potentially dangerous ideology, PoMo is only dangerous when applied incorrectly by myopic, unintelligent people? In and of itself it's a viable form of philosophy but when it's brandished by degenerates as a method to justify disgusting lifestyles then it's clearly not being applied correctly.

>>132254015
>I've read SotS, and it's a third-party critique of Capitalism through a PoMo-Marxist lens. This doesn't make capitalism PoMo, not in the least
That's true, but it also isn't what I was saying:
I think Society of the Spectacle points out just how post-modern capitalism is. It's no longer simply about having the goods necessary for you to experience life, but rather about having the means to view the representation of experiencing life. It's pointing out about how life under capitalism has become a system of being able to engage with representations of systems. That, say, social media is a platform built in order to diffuse the experience of living into consumable media. If that's not post-modern as fuck I don't know what is, it sounds like a fuckin Pynchon novel.

>PoMo, considered purely on its own, is neither Capitalist nor Marxist.
So we agree!

>abstraction, etc.
I agree that there are a lot of sophists out there, but let's not start flinging shit at the Post-Modernists just because whiny college kids misunderstand them.

>>132254222
> For an inaccurate shorthand, the basic idea is just to question the hegemony of knowledge by considering how the writer's language, the writer's background, the writer's possible influences, the writer's ideology influences the writer's meaning. For obvious reasons, socio-economic structures, etc. are important.
The problem with this is that you don't have an agreed-upon method of deciding what is important when you do your deconstruction. A radical black feminist is going to find racism and misogyny in Shakespeare. A redneck will find the gay agenda. Anyone can deconstruct anything in any way they see fit. Sure, there may be some things that are just too far to really be accepted with your genteel cliques, but there are radicals who will use these tendencies to the fullest extent of their imagination.

>That's just lazy baseless bullshit. Post-Modernism still requires good arguments and analyses. Post-Modernists still argue vehemently against each other with logic, there are still "rules".
PoMo's rules, however, are very easily corrupted. They rely on subtleties and nuances so discreet that you can often unveil more or less meaning in any situation, as is convenient for you.

This corruption may not be encoded into the rules of the game, but Derrida et al. figured out how to cheat. With the goal of destroying the west they did everything they could to make sure every disaffected group, every destabilizing force, had access to them.

You have an understanding of PoMo as practiced by a tiny minority of its followers. Look at BLM, SJWs etc... They took a simple philosophy and based a movement on it. That's what's dangerous, and that's what you're refusing to understand.

"in sterquiliniis invenitur – in filth it shall be found (Jung, 1967, p. 35)."
-changed my life, desu.

>>132255736
>The problem with this is that you don't have an agreed-upon method of deciding what is important when you do your deconstruction
Why does that matter? Deconstruction is about making explicit implicit ideologies and structures. They're all worth investigating in and of themselves

>Anyone can deconstruct anything in any way they see fit
But if they're good arguments, why does it matter? There are definitely bullshit deconstructions, and those bullshit deconstructions can be, and if it's in a halfway decent journal, will be called out for what they are. I don't see the issue here.

Also, Shakespeare's an awful bad example, given that some of his plays (Othello?) explicitly deal with racism.

You also miss the point of deconstruction, as a lot of SJW college students do, it's not about finding things you don't like in order to dismiss the work itself, it's about further investigating a work's underlying structures in order to better understand it.

>You have an understanding of PoMo as practiced by a tiny minority of its followers
I have an understanding of PoMo as practiced by the people who fucking invented it. The movements you're talking about aren't even necessarily PoMo, they're just angry liberal kids who create their own boogeymen like /pol/ does.

>>132238447
I don't feel the system is significantly bias enough to warrant tearing it down so why would I?

>>132256924
Again, PoMo doesn't really have an underlying ideology. Everyone should probably try and read Heidegger, Sartre, Foucault if they give even half a shit about philosophy.

But, according to DeBold and Post-Modern Marxists, the system is actively degrading your life and barring you from having authentic experiences.

>>132246923
>Nonfiction books are unrealistic
It's true, Russians are brainwashed

>>132256774
So the angry liberal kids haven't based their ideas on any philosophy?

>>132247697
Everything in the gulag archipelago is cited. Mainly from the records of those who were the officials

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>>132247192
>how to form your own political opinions
>read all of these books in this specific order to guide your line of thinking

>>132257687
About as much as /pol/ does. It's really just based on half read values and ideas trickled down through whatever social group they're in and filtered through ideology.

>>132257866
Those books build off one another and reject one another. Not to mention that philosophy is based in presenting logical arguments, not persuasion.
If you don't read philosophy, regardless of what branch, in some general historical order, then you're fucking up big time.

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>>132256774
>Deconstruction is about making explicit implicit ideologies and structures.
How does a deconstructionist know that the meaning and intention he sees in a work is actually reflective of the author's true meaning and intention? How does the deconstructionist know that he's not simply finding confirmation of his own preconceived ideological opinions? Does the deconstructionist ever find to his surprise that the implicit structures underlying a work have nothing at all to do with anything in the deconstructionist's ideological frame of reference?

>>132258480
These are hugely important questions that every academic attempts to unravel in each deconstruction. It's incredibly complicated and I'd be lying if I said there was any consensus about how to solve those. The only answer I can give you is that you take it case by case.

Much like old Bible commentary, academia now has its own academia, where the big names get deconstructed themselves. It's a real mess but imo an essential one.

However, these questions have yet to proven deconstruction itself useless.

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>>132249245
Post proof then faggot

>>132258480
Popper's criticism of experimentalism is legit but here he sounds like a copypasta. Incidentally,
http://sorosfiles.com/soros/2011/10/the-shocking-truth-about-soros-mentor-karl-popper%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Copen-society%E2%80%9D-philosophy.html#axzz4lnadaYQB