Well, /pol/?

True. But you consent to it by paying it.

>>132100059
You're fucking retarded. Enjoy the run-down streets and awful schools

>>132100059
>what makes a job not slavery
but it literally is
due to how society is set up you can either work and eat or die, that's no choice at all

>>132100801
You could, you know, harvest your own food.

>>132100059
>what is wage slavery
>what is consent given through the democratic process

>>132100059
That means conscription is slavery and child support payments are slavery in many cases.

>>132100801

explain how this differs from man's natural state.

specifically, if you were in the wild alone what are your options.

>>132100059
>what is the social contract
Live in the wilderness like me

>>132100882
>conscription is slavery
Pretty much.

Funny how Boomers were so anti-war during their youth but don't bat an eye at sending Gen X/Y'ers to their deaths for the petrodollar.

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>>132100769

>tfw already have run-down streets and awful schools

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Taxation isn't theft because theft is first and foremost a legal definition, and its legal doesn't include taxation.

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>>132100769
Sounds like nothing will change, then.

>>132100856
If 60% of the population decides to reinstitute serfdom for the other 40% is that consent?

>>132100059
You libertarian mongoloids are beyond repair.

>>132100985
Well, uhhhh, you'll have fewer people living off your tax dollars! How will you survive without so many aspiring rappers with three baby-mommas?

>>132100059
damn right OP
we shall overcome
down with gibs and wealth redistribution, 100% to whoever earns it

>>132100769
I'm already done with my education. In fact, having run down schools would benefit me as it would reduce competition for certain jobs later down the line, thus increasing salaries.

>>132101044
Ahem.
Not an argument. :^)

>>132101038
Absolutely.

>>132100059
Anyone that gets a job knows that they will be paying tax as an unavoidable part of them receiving a salary, so by signing the contract with their employer they have already consented indirectly to paying tax as they earn money.

Of course, unemployed champagne socialists wouldn't know this as they've never had any form of gainful employment.

>>132101110
> being this retarded

>>132100059
ancaps and lolbertarians are the worst LARPers on this board

>>132101143
>BiH in charge of democracy

>>132101067
Can we not live our lives by screwing all the subsequent generations? Society is already hanging by a very tenuous thread.

>>132100059
>Well, /pol/?
You pay taxes to live in the country you are living. Don't like it? Move to another country

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>>132100059
>i want the government to protect my property rights with police and military
>but I don't want to pay for it
fuck off you thieving nigger
funny how you think the government is stealing from you when you fantasize about stealing from the government

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>>132101049

those aspiring rappers with three baby mommas live off benefits funded by taxpayer money.

jokes on you

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>>132101214

What makes normalfag trash easy to identify?

Facebook filesnames for example.

>>132100838
the government wouldn't let you do that since it's ''their'' land

>>132100922
ofc you need to work to not die but for instance working for the a tribe that all take care of each other is much better than working just for yourself and some asshole that you hate

>>132100059

then there's this faggot. If you dont work you dont get taxed. If you dont own land you dont get taxed.

If, however, you do work or own land, you do it under the protection and care of the state.

You drive to work on public roads maintained by the state.

You are paid in currency that is printed and maintained by the state.

You live and work uninterrupted by slavers, despots and fucking commies thanks to an army maintained by the state.

why dont you start your own country cock catcher

>>132101044
Fuck off you German hyper socialist. Go pay your taxes so the poor can reproduce even more, coz you know, being a cockroach scum from mid east, living in the desert while being bombed 24/7/365 and earning 2 000/ year (two thousand dolaroo) while feeding 15 kids.

Its actually heaven to get 700 Euros per kid, and living for free on other taxes, they can be free all day, while you work, and while you cant afford having 15 kids with your average salary or even high salary whatsoever. Socialism is the mother of all bad things.

>Hey anon let's fuck
No thanks
>Okay bye

>Hey anon wanna work for some money
I'm good.
>alright then

>Alright Mr. Anon, it's time to pay your taxes.
Nope.
>Cuff em, boys.

Try telling the IRS you don't consent and see what happens.

>>132100059
You are paying taxes because of a contract (birth certificate/ passport/ social security/ id card) between you can your country, the landlord, that allows you to reside in that place
Not paying taxes nullifies that contract and puts you in violation of the NAP

>>132101099
I feel soo sleepy right now, don't you?
Libertarians should move to the woods and wipe with their bare hands, that's what it's actually about and that's where the world would be at if it was libertarian to begin with.
Libertarians are a naive meme.

>>132100769
kidnapper

>>132101385
A well armed, principled meme.

>>132101317
>mong reporting in
What are you talking about murrican?
Libertarians are a sad joke, nothing to do with reality. Never will.
>>132101385

>>132100059
Shit meme, if you don't like taxes, move to fucking Mongolia and live in fucking Yurt crybaby.

>ofc you need to work to not die but for instance working for the a tribe that all take care of each other is much better than working just for yourself and some asshole that you hate

if you work for a company you own shares in then you can live your dream.

>>132101488
Armed with sticks and stones?
If not you are not a libertarian.
You don't have principles, you delusions of the highest order you share with some mong friends when you visit KFC, faggot.

>>132101490
You really like to be cucked by the state don't you ? Dont tell me how mistress lets you lick her boots if you pay your taxes on time, its all scam you will never prosper or profit from paying other less fortunate ppl around you so they can continue to live their shit lives.

>>132100856
>implying you have a choice to opt out

I'm going to have my first paycheck this year. Knowing that the State will steal 40% of it to feed the millions of negroes and arabs on welfare makes me feel absolutely terrible

>>132101672
>down contact and scrape up
You are perfect corporate dicksucking minions.
Go exchange some sea shells for a warm wank in the evening, fag.

>>132101700
Nothing prevents you from emigrating to a libertarian paradise.

>>132101666
>...with sticks and stones?
This just in: libertarians can trade for goods! It's almost like it's one of the core principles of libertarianism or something!

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>>132100059
The fact your taxes go to helping the rest of the country, my taxes can go to a state thousands of miles away and feed an orphan or build a road, or buy a boat for defense. The money simply doesn't vanish from your pocket. And by agreeing to live in the country and have a passport and birth certficate you have agreed to abide by it's laws.

>Muh natrual rights
Might makes Right. dumb ancap niggers and libertarians along with the social democracies we have are dying at a rapid pace. It's gonna be a war between the communists and fascists.
Join or die

We don't live in the wild west or some icelandic medieval village, we are in a globalized world where all the resources of a state are needed to run the country now. Power can come from thousands of miles away with coal dug from the ground and the state is the best way to ensure all of this works out and to ensure practical working of any kind since anarchism has never worked once in the entire history of humankind nor has it came about naturally.


If we go by ancap rules, to calm your autism just imagine the current system we have is actually a big McDonald corp and your free to go to another country or lie down in a ditch and die since if you don't work or agree to a communities rule in ancap it's lie down or die. Just like here if you don't follow the rules. You'll feel much better then

>>132100856
>democracy
lol. dream on.

>>132100769
Just about any private school is better than all the government schools. Just about any private healthcare is better than all the government health care. Look at private roads and how well maintained they are, compared the shitty job your government does.

Just as you tacitly consent to being physically removed (and possibly roughed up a bit) if you trespass on my property, your presence in [country] is itself consent to follow its laws.

>>132100059
Your Constitution dumbass. Literally blame your ancestors to allow taxation

>>132101852
This orphan is orphan for a reason you mongoloid, its either bad choices in the life of its parents or accident, anyhow it will grow to be at best average member of the society, but most likely poor ebt card mongoloid that relies on the state to be led by.

That being said, you contribute nothing to the society, you are actually harming society and yourself or your kids in the future.

>>132101892
>Just about any private school is better than all the government schools. Just about any private healthcare is better than all the government health care

Obviously, any service which is run for a profit and whose functionality directly duplicates that available for free at the point of provision is going to have to be better than the government provided option. That's basic capitalism, dummy.

The question is, what happens when the government provided option no longer exists to provide a baseline of competition.

>>132101672
if you werent cucked by the state youd be cucked by corporations

you underage faggots and your pipe dream non government need to fuck off. its literally childish thinking

>>132102179
Not if there is now law BY THE STATE that encourage taxes on me by the corps, If I dont like taxation by the corps, fuck me I will distill my own water or buy it from George down the (((private))) street. And if the water from the corp is that good, sure I will pay something. I won't go to prison for not paying, they will just cut off their service. Or make it so its affordable.

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>>132100769
>>132101326
>>132101949
>>132102057

>Consequences of me not paying taxes are an argument xd

To this day, i still try and find an argument.

By the logic in this thread, civilisation is slavery, as you never gave consent to obey the law or use the money. Ancap will only lead to a more "might-makes-right" society, which will inevitably mean a new person at the top, who you will have to obey when you can't outgun, and hey presto, you achieved nothing.

>>132100059
>what makes a transaction not robbery?

When you fucking exchange cash for goods and services. What does consent have to do with a transaction being robbery. Can tell op made this picture, its retarded

>>132100769
not an argument

>>132101177
>60% tries to impose on 40%
>40% rebels
>end up like Bosnia
>democratic process works goys

>>132100769

>literally SJW tier argument

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>>132100059
The only taxes I would be glad to pay are for military, police, courts.

But the govt taking from joe to give to bill is absolute bullshit.

How do I benefit from having my property stolen to pay for someone else's education or healthcare? Poor people can eat dirt for all I care.

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Ron Paul literally never said anything outlandish or objectionable. Suck my dick.

>>132100059
But I want to pay taxes!

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>>132102142
>This orphan is orphan for a reason you mongoloid, its either bad choices in the life of its parents or accident, anyhow it will grow to be at best average member of the society, but most likely poor ebt card mongoloid that relies on the state to be led by.

Wrong the Abo was but plenty of good people have come from bad backgrounds but with a bit of social help or money for food these people succeed and strive in life. Who's to say the parents weren't run over by a car and killed?

If your argument is muh welfare leeches then instated of pussyfooting niggers and getting rid of everything even for those who generally deserve them, war veterans, orphaned children etc. You boot the niggers from society or force them to co-operate within the society

Ancaps lack morality of any sense, they are self obsessed greedy kike tier people. Learning from the teaching of Ayn-rand,Rothbrand etc who are all Jewish. The entire premise of the movement is fuck everyone else I'm a jew i like money and hate giving a fair share.

They cannot be called nationalists in any-sense. A better thing to call them would be Jews

>>132100059
Life isn't fair kiddo.

>>132102614
>Hey, give me $100 and i'll like give you this shoe..

>But i don't want to do that transaction.

>BUT IT'S AN EXCHANGE OF CASH FOR GOODS AND SERVICES REEEEE

>>132101067
>fuck you, i don't need [infrastructure] anymore
haha, yeah

>>132100769
I don't have a car

>>132102769
"Christianity is the best kindergarten of communism possible. Christianity taught believes to put others before self, an ethical mandate that matched the collective emphasis on the group over the individual. thus a new system of individual, non chirsitan ethics was needed to prevent the triump of communism."

if you thought this was something that sounds like it comes out of Vargs mouth your wrong.

It comes from a Russian, Jew immigrant into the United states. T.(((Aynd Rand))) the anti christian greedy kike and big figure head in the libertarian movement

>>132102847
>muh gud gubs dey lookin out fer me they wanna be dad

>>132100769
In my hometown the old high school is in such poor condition from releasing most of its staff and cutting all the extracurricular programs that even typically irresponsible high school students are protesting at city hall, not to mention the recent troubles with no less than three state governments having to shut down due to poor budgets.

But it's okay, I'm sure we'll see a lot of use out of that F-35

>>132103138
She's not totally wrong, but Jordan Peterson's interpretation is more workable.

>>132102769

Welfare is actually extortion money given to subhumans so that they don't chimp out.
Sadly, history has shown that it's the most efficient way to handle them.

>>132103138
She's right, christianity is for weak minded faggots.

>>132103159
muh goberment taking all muh money. Now how will my very specific brand of anarchism work???

Remember black flag Anarchism and anacho communism aren't true anarchism. putting a small thin layer of capitalism will make all the reasons they failed in the first place work. ;)

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>>132101800
work harder dhimmi
i need my vacation au bled

>>132100059
If you don't want to pay taxes you can go and live on Panama.

>>132102159
They would compete with each other instead, the same way they compete with each other in all the other industries. No mystery there.

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>>132103387

>>132100059
You're free to not pay taxes if you fuck off the government property. Unfortunately pretty much all of the land has already been claimed by one government or another, so looks like you'll have to go live in an ocean or outer space to avoid paying taxes. This of course wouldn't be a problem in an ANCAP society, since there will always be land that has not been claimed by anyone... right? Right? Right?! Oh...

>>132100059
If you enjoy good infrastructure and schooling for your kids then it applies as consent of a transaction

If you disagree with taxes, feel free to leave.

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>>132103387
t.Very moral libertarian and a true race patriot who puts the white races concerns at the forefront of his thinking and isn't just a greedy jew.

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>>132103494
Bible thumpers are retarded.

>>132103138
>In political and social sciences, communism (from Latin communis, "common, universal")[1][2] is the philosophical, social, political, and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of the communist society, which is a socioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money,[3][4] and the state.[5][6]

Christianity
>supports private ownership, oops
>mandates social classes: estates of kings, priests, bourgeouisie and workers to be more precise, oops
>doesn't want to abolish state (just render unto ceasar), oops
>feed the hungry, heal the sick, shelter the homeless

Only one of these things match up with communism and then only very superficially because no communist system ever fed the hungry, quite the contrary. I am not surprised that Varg "Christianity is Communism" Vikernes is aligns himself with Jews in order to bring down Christianity.

Why can't these kikes and they lackeys just be honest for one single day and say "ok we just hate Christianity", but no, there's 6 million+ rationalizations hinding their true motive.

>>132103607
White supremacists can suck my dick, I'm Hispanic. Better teach your kids my language, they are going to need it.

>>132100059

Shitskin logic at it's finest.

> "I never consented to be taxed despite me working in the system willingly, knowing I would be taxed, and benefiting from the taxation system by use of public goods and services."

>>132102548
>reply to an actual argument without anything.
That's why you guys are weak at arguing on the topic and lose all the time.
You are citizen of a country and must abide its laws. If it doesn't please you, change them.
Constitution define the form of the State. I know you didn't personally accept it, but you both expressly and implicitly accept it by living on this country soil.

>>132103327
It's not bribery. They hand it out because you are worth more to the state if you are a capable consumer that moves money around.

You see a disproportionate amount of tax money go toward animal housing and new toys for police officers because those are two BIG demographics that LOVE to get out there vote.

>>132103555
>tax/ government funded schooling
>Good schooling
P I C K O N E you blue pilled swine

>>132103523

You can still live tax free in Alaska. One of the few places left. Homesteading is still a thing there. Or perhaps in some out of the way area in some shit hole country.

>>132100059
You have the choice to not work and pay 0 tax, ancapanon.

>>132102439
anything you can do without a state you can do in a state

>>132103732
Kikes want Ancap and Kikes want communism. They both end with moral degradation and the eventual end of the White race and all his religions.

if your sole reason for being a retarded ancap isn't to improve the white race and it's morality your not redpilled, you've just drunk from the pool of Jewish tricks

>>132101044
a Libertarian is a Republican who still lives in his parent's basement.

>>132100662
Have you tried not paying it?

>>132103406
hey how about you read my posts you blowhard

>>132103977

>What is value added tax

>>132103994
you are not a moral paragon
you are posting on an anime forum

>>132101842
Oh really?
What did you trade in for your gun?
Your PS4?

>>132100769

But schools and roads are already shit in USA so why are you paying taxes?

>>132102159
>The question is, what happens when the government provided option no longer exists to provide a baseline of competition.
Truly, if we didn't all have a government-produced public cell phone, the cell phones on the private market would all be shit. Oh wait...

>>132104206
Can't tell you here.

>>132100059
Social contract. Either live in society and pay taxes or fuck off to the wilderness.

>>132100059

Shitty bait, but sure, I'll give it a go.

Basically, everywhere in the world is already a part of some country. Imagine that you live in an apartment block where every apartment represents a country. Regardless of where you decide to live, the place isn't yours. It's already taken, and some have been taken for millennia. Their land, their rules. Why? Because they have the power to back their claims. You, as an individual, don't have shit. "Owning" land literally means borrowing it for a long term from the country you reside in. Nothing is truly yours. If you want the kind of liberty where you don't have to pay any kind of taxes and where you're the absolute owner of everything, you need to procure land somewhere, most likely some remote island and declare independence. The problem with that is that the country that owns it most likely wouldn't allow you to do such a thing, not to mention that you'd be alone vs other established powers. Imagine then that you discover some valuable resource on said island. How long do you think that you'd be able to last before somebody occupies you for whatever bullshit reason? You're literally 1 person. And that's basically it. You have freedoms and rights only because your country gives them to you, otherwise you'd be a slave. In essence, nobody is truly free. Everyone's owned by someone. Most people are owned by their country. That's why taxation isn't theft. It can't be theft because nothing is truly yours. You're paying the country so that you're allowed to live there. And that implies consent. You want to continue residing in said country? Pay up and respect the rules. Don't want to? Fuck off elsewhere, but the same thing will apply.

>>132100769
Rape laws are fucking retarded.

Enjoy not having a sustainable birthrate if you don't let hordes of smelly arabs rape your women.

>>132103577
>if you disagree with niggers breaking into your house all the time and stealing your shit, feel free to move
How about you stop being a nigger?

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>>132100059

>>132104663
>Social contract
Is not a thing.

>Either live in society and pay taxes
Society is simply people interacting relatively peacefully for mutual benefit. Taxes are what you pay your masters. Stop conflating the two.

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>>132100059
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CfXouIq-Mc

>>132104663
Name one place in the world you can (LEGALLY) live in the woods and not pay taxes.

>>132101852
The point of having a stateless society is eliminate the power that evil people would gain by being in government positions where they would not be held accountable for their actions.

If a business offers a shitty service, you can turn it down. If a government offers a shitty service, you are still forced to pay taxes under the threat of criminal persecution.

You could even still collectivise temporarily with friends to accomplish something that individuals could not, you're just not forced to do so by a tyrannical parasitic cult.

>>132104933
You live in a country, you agree to live by their rules.

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>>132100059
Daily reminder, you're always free to leave the country hippies

>>132100801
How is it a societies fazlt that you have to eat or you die? That's fucking biology. And how do you plan to eat if not by work?

>>132104206

If you don't make at least minimum wage you don't have to.

>>132105032
>If a government offers a shitty service, you are still forced to pay taxes under the threat of criminal persecution.
This would be a valid argument against taxation if you lived in a dictatorship.

>>132100059
Go live on a reservation if you don't want taxes

>>132100059
Well, go live on an island and never use any state agency. Of course you're likely one of the many mega wealthy /pol/ posters and obviously will have your own pilot for evac during medical emergencies as well as private security so no point dredging those humdrum concerns up.

>>132104732
That was a very long way of saying "might makes right".

You should have no issues, then, if I shoot you in the face and take your shit, seeing as how the only measure of whether the ownership of a good is legitimate is the owner's superior capacity for violence.

>>132105113
Whose rules?

>>132100059
tax helps curb inflation. Money can't keep going into the system.

>>132104933
You are part of the State. You pay taxes to the State. So you pay yourself. Whoever controls the State isn't the question here.

>>132105353
In a democracy?
Take a wild guess.

>>132104933

I will admit that I am abbot of a new dad to this board in particular. This is the post that made understand the whole meme about leafs. Everything your country has that could possibly give you any sort of of bragging rights are all created by taxpayers and you need to choke to death on several cocks you fucking faggot.

>>132104732
Therefore hyper-collectivism and nanny states are good and we should all get our nuts stomped by some #hotcops on the reg. It's just the way it is maaaaaaaaan that's just the way it is. Who needs reform or accountability anyway? My senator is a cool guy! I don't mind if he embezzles my money cause that's just the price of doing business homie. Can't live with them can't live without them wink wink nudge nudge

>>132105383
>So you pay yourself
So why not just keep my money in my own pocket instead of passing it around pointlessly? I'll answer it for you: it's because I don't actually pay myself, I pay for other people's shit, some of which I am permitted to use. Your logic is idiotic.

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>>132101008
this taxation is not theft, it is rape

>>132105032
>You could even still collectivise temporarily with friends to accomplish something that individuals could not, you're just not forced to do so by a tyrannical parasitic cult.

Eventually your little town would grow in size and a mayor or something would have to be elected to better manage the resources of the town. And your back to square one. We have mega cities like in Japan where 37.8 million people all live within close proximity of each-other and one central authority can organize and make sure all of this runs smoothly because they all run off the same system and time/train lines. A stateless society is incompatible with cities as large as this.

It's no longer colonial America or the Wild west with a few thousand people. Try tens of millions

Taxation is you paying for the water, electricity, and for the protection of the state's military and the police, also for the ability to vote and to live in that country/state.

>>132104815
Wow sweet IG meme bro I think unilateral one-world socialism is really starting to grow on me

>>132101210
Thread

>>132100059
Fucking ancap, honestly you cunts are are worse than nazis, communists and anarchists. Yours is the only failed ideology that isnt routinely a called out for the crap it is.

>>132105383
if I pay myself, then how many euros did I receive through this tax ?

>>132105432
How about you answer the question. And take a moment to think about it, because the correct answer is not the one you have in mind.

>>132104806
The state maintains the borders and enacts laws to keep society cohesive. In the case of Canada, the state also owns ~90% of land.

These issues are voted on by the general populace in a system that the voters deem fair. If people disagree with them, they are free to vote to change them.

If you are living in a place where taxation is the law and taxation pays for services you use but you don't want to pay taxes and instead want all taxes to go rather than moving to the tax free ancap havens such as Somalia, you're the gibs nigger here.

>>132105113
nope, I did not choose the country to live in and in fact, the people in this country gave me a passport without my consent and they demand money to

>>132100838
You can try all you like to live off the grid, for some reason those that actually succeed always end up in court for not paying fees to private corps and the state.

>>132100059
>Receive numerous free government services from birth.
>finally start working & be expected to pay back the society that has provided and continued to provide for you
>claim it's theft
You're an ungrateful sack of shit or have a toddler's understanding of the world

>>132105661
ancaps hide behind their name. just call them what they are. Anarchists

The edgy teens who cry for that is what they unironiclly want, and all their arguments for ancap """""work""""" for "True" anarchism. Anarchism can join the communists in shit which won't ever work until human nature changes

>>132105684


In the USA they'll tell you that a portion of what you pay in taxes goes to social security for when you go to retire, but chances are you'll never see that money because you won't make it to 65, which they have to bank on because the current system is basically unsustainable if everyone that paid into the SS fund survived to 65.

>>132105741
The people vote in a democracy, choosing who governs.

>>132105832
You're choosing to live there.

>>132105194
Most of these so-called "representative democracies" are actually oligarchies in all but name only.

Representation is a lie. Representation that you do not choose yourself is an even bigger lie. Only you can represent your interests.

>>132105881
If you're not going to make it to 65, that's either your country's shitty healthcare+Bad luck or your bad eating habits+laziness

>>132105752
Democracies are run by legislative financial backers.

>>132100922
Right now mankind's state is to live on a planet covered with nations. You have to pay taxes, but you have a choice about who to pay taxes to, just like you have to get a job but you have a choice who that's with.

>>132100059
>Spent 20 years of his life sucking off each and every asset of this system
>wants to 'keep his shit' when it is his turn to contribute

You are just another gibmonkey, like commies or natsocs.

ancap works.

It creates super sci fi levels of prosperity and poor trash get driven into the wilderness.

>>132105959
Who casts your vote for you?

I agree the choices often aren't great, but they're still your choice.

>>132106048
>Have to pay taxes
No, you can always live in international waters or Somalia.

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>>132105987
yes it has nothing to do with living ad nauseam the life of a slave whose only possibility outside of work is to pay for entertainment.

>>132106048
>You have to pay taxes, but you have a choice about who to pay taxes to,
such as? you know you need money and also the agreement of the local ruling people to give you a visa?

and even better, if you do something that the rulers in the present deem ''illegal'' then they will arrest you at the border

>>132106205
>in the present
present country

ITT Shabbos Goyim

>>132106205
>waaahh why do I have to fulfill the requirements to pay taxes where I like
>waaaah why do I have to fulfill the requirements to get a job I like

>>132105320
>>132105506

Why complain to me about the state of the system / situation? I simply stated how things are, albeit in a tad convoluted way. Regardless, no matter what you say or how much you argue, you can't really do anything about it. It doesn't matter where you move to, taxation exists everywhere because everything's already taken. We're all literally tenants. There is no land without an owner. And yes, might does make right. It always has. It doesn't matter if you disagree. That's how things are. If you don't like it... well... tough luck. I don't see the solution to your problem, aside from hiding somewhere outside of the system or living underground. Have fun with that.

>>132101198
Society is on an irreversible downward spiral, there is no hope for redemption. We might as well take what we can get before it all goes to shit. If it means adopting the "fuck you, got mine" attitude, so be it.

>>132102057
lol

>>132100059
you choose to live in the country with taxes. You're free to move.

>>132106347
Yeah man totally. It's broke but eeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhh why bother fixing it dude who cares bro just tick the red or the blue box.

>>132106382
I'd rather not be to our children and grandchildren what the boomers are to us.

>>132105987
I fully expect and hope to die at 40 of a heart attack but even without the Amerifat stereotype I would argue the vast majority of people still don't make it to 65.

Also doesn't help that a large portion of the country is taking SS benefits without ever contributing.

Finally, not sure how many of you know this, but in the US we don't exactly get a choice who to pay taxes to. Even if we leave the country and decide to live in Italy or something, we're still obligated to pay tax to the US government unless we relinquish our citizenship entirely.

>>132103819

But the first step to constitutionally improving your country via a democratic process is to determine the correct policies you believe in. The argument over taxation is step 1, step 2 is voting for people that will bring in a flat rate tax, then a sales tax only.

anarchism is a mental illness

>>132104206
>Have you tried not paying it?

Hi, I'm Greece and this is jackass.

>>132105752
>enacts laws to keep society cohesive
Really? Laws are being passed to ensure social cohesion? Do you know the content of any of the last 10 bills your federal government passed? Because I can guarantee you the vast majority of people in a country don't. Take a look at the laws that are being written every fucking day, and you might revise your statement.

>voted on by the general populace
The issues aren't voted on at all. We do not have a direct democracy. What is voted on are candidates that hopefully share some favorable views on certain issues, but those candidates are not liable to their supporters.

>you're the gibs nigger
I pay taxes, because the government will attack me if I don't. Others get gibs from my tax dollar. And I'm supposed to shut up and embrace the status quo because a fucking bong said so?

>>132105943
Which people? How many people voted in the last election you had? What did they vote for? And did those who voted for the losing side(s) get what they wanted?

>>132106523
>step 2 is voting f
only people who have faith in democracy do indeed vote

>>132106509
>if we stop asking for taxes and just take donations things will be fine
>if we stop having a strong military all the countries we've screwed over will leave us alone
>if we stop bribing blacks and Hispanics to not riot they'll get jobs
>if we stop paying old folks the social security they neglected saving for retirement for they'll get jobs
>at least it will be voluntary

>>132106651
wew lad

>>132106097
The congressmen that are already in power.

consent

>Live in country
>Consent to paying their taxes and following their rules
It's like asking why paying rent isn't considered theft.
Now in some cases, taxation is complete bullshit, like inheritance tax, but it's still something you inherently agree to when you choose to live in a country that has it.

>>132100769
But I already have run-down streets and awful schools

>>132106509

I disagree that it's broken, but I don't live in the US, nor do I know what specifically you are referring to, unless you mean taxation as a whole, in which case I've already described the situation that we live in. What would you propose that we do / change? What's your ideal and how would your country operate?

>>132106945
>It's like asking why paying rent isn't considered theft.
Does the government rightly own all the land? How did it come by it?

>>132106679
>Which people?
People of voting age.
>How many people voted in the last election you had?
95% of the population, on average.
>What did they vote for?
Their desired party??????
>And did those who voted for the losing side(s) get what they wanted?
Depends what they wanted

>>132106774
So you're saying there's only 1 party you're allowed to vote for and that is chosen by current congressmen?

>>132106689
le daddy trump ecksdee
baste magger wall gonna stop the drug trade but whoa nelly hold on a sec we're SO not cutting funding to those Silly Awesome Dudes at the CIA like what the fuck do you want to live in mad max or something???????

>>132106509

But you can fix it. We have freedom of protest and all that y'know. Reform, which is what I like is something that takes a very, very long time and the issues in society that people fight for they tend to fight for them for their whole lives. It's just a natural consequence of democracies. Things change very slowly, but surely. Getting rid of the state altogether just only results in a new government eventually popping up. Whether or not that new government rises to power through vote or force, well who knows.

>>132106950
Exactly my point. Public systems simply do not have the incentives to do a good job of anything because they aren't truly competing with anyone.

>>132100769
That's literally what we have now, fuckhead. Leave the house once in awhile.

>>132100059
yeah just pay no taxes, become a 3rd world country
that will teach (((them)))

>>132107044
I don't fucking know dude but I'm sick of being told by a bunch of mental midgets repeatedly that social reform is some kind of bad idea and that we should just take what we can get.

>>132107332
>We'll destroy ourselves to stop them
Perfect

>>132105605
The water here comes from my own well.
The electricity comes from my own wind power.
All surrounding roads are private.
The police are literally hours away.
The national military are a bunch of literal fags that couldn't defend the country against anyone.
I should have to pay 60-75% of my own money to the state because why exactly?

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>this kills the statist

>>132107503
Because otherwise they'll have an emaciated Somali twink breed your asshole for sedition.

Not sure if this is a troll thread but I like having schools, hospitals, roads and emergency services so I pay for them.

>>132107149
I'm saying that choosing between any amount of people that are all beholden to the exact same corrupt and greedy groups is no choice at all.

>>132107629
>all beholden to the exact same corrupt and greedy groups
Do you have any proof of this?

>>132105605
>paying for the water, electricity, and for the protection of the state's military and the police
Then why not pay voluntarily only for this things directly, instead of paying to a government that spends most of the money on progressive bs?

>>132100059
Taxation IS theft.

Fuck statists.

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>>132107625
But fuck borders and national security right? I quite fancy me estates gettin' blown to high hell by indignant sand people. Jus' the price of freedom mate.

>>132107515
Delete this!

>>132101833
The US (like North Eritrea) taxes citizens on their world-wide earnings.

>>132107149
>95% of the population, on average.
Not quite, 0-18 year olds are not granted suffrage, and they take up more than 5% of the population. Regardless, your compulsory voting scheme is retarded.

>Their desired party????
Those people wholeheartedly agreed with the platform of their desired party, and knew the specific laws that their party was intending on passing? There is no system in any country that runs like this. Parties gain control over the federal government, and typically pass some or none of their campaign promises. They also pass a significantly larger proportion of legislation that the voters had no idea about. I refer you to the challenge I suggested for the bong poster; take a look at the last 10 bills your parliament has passed, and see how many you actually knew about. In addition, take a look at the last 10 government committees (if such information is available in Australia) that were formed on the subject of your choosing, and see if you knew anything about their existence before you looked them up.

Unlike the moronically simplistic and idealistic overview of the government process that you may have been taught in school, the reality is that 95% of all legislation is done without general public knowledge; only stakeholders, lobby groups, and those directly affected by it tend to know that legislation even exists.

>Depends what they wanted
They wanted another party to represent them and make decisions according to their ideology. This didn't happen. By definition, they will disagree, whether outright or in part, with the rules that the victorious party will impose.

When a government does a thing, the most you can claim is that those who voted for it are consenting to that thing. It is absurd to claim that those who did not vote for that specific set of politicians somehow consent to them acting on their behalf. And the issue is further complicated through the blind ballot, so that nobody can show precisely who is actually represented.

>>132107861

But I also pay for the border agency and police officers which wouldn't exist in any consistent form in a stateless society because "muh coercion"

>>132107734
Are you completely ignorant of how lobbying works?

>>132100769
i have that now though

i live in taxachusetts too

>>132107625
Private companies are paid to construct those buildings. Individuals provide those services. If anything, privatization would be cheaper and more effective because it would cut out the bureaucratic middle man.

>>132107391

Well, I don't know how much this issue truly bothers or impacts your daily life, but the only advice that I can think of giving you, regardless if you want it or not, is to forget about it. We are livestock. We live in our pens by the rules imposed on us by our owners. Defying them has consequences, often times such that make your life miserable or simply end it. I really don't see a solution, nor can I think of a system that doesn't already exist, or one that hasn't been tried before that operates without any kind of currency. Imagine that the world collapses due to whatever catastrophe and countries cease to exist. Regardless of how many survive, anyone can now claim land. True ownership. A time of anarchy. But anarchy is only a transitional phase. An anarchic society cannot exist for long. But if you decide to be the ruler of some land, how can you defend that claim? If you get sympathizers / followers, you'll eventually need to assign them roles. Basically, what we already have now, but on a smaller scale and adapting to the situation. So, what prevents these people from not taking over your claims? Why should they do what you say? Nobody works for free. Those that have the role to enforce order and impose your will on your subjects aren't producing any kind of goods, yet they have wants and needs of their own. As the ruler you have to continue satisfying them, unless you want to lose them or have an uprising. Where will you get the food or funds from? That's what taxation is for. It's impossible to do without when running a large society.

>>132100059
99.999% of fools itt either don't work and don't pay real taxes or get a tax return.
I.e. It's typical pol bitchfest

>>132107997
Of course they would exist, but they'd be the same job. Instead of a single unified border, across which politicians get to decide how many people flood, every piece of property becomes sovereign. Property lines are the borders. And most people, when dealing with their own property, will be significantly more discriminatory than they are today. It's the reason nobody gives a flying fuck when the public bus gets a flat tire, but care much more when their own car suffers the same fate.

>>132108111

The bureaucratic middle man who's accountable to the taxpayer or the bureaucratic middle man who's accountable to shareholders?

>>132100769
So, what you're saying is I'm being robbed and my community isn't being taken care of?

>>132107997
I refuse to fucking believe that you actually see your myopic socialist bureaucracy as adequate in the state it's currently in.

>>132106313
because the alternative is terrorism

>>132100769
wait a minute
why do taxes exist?

>>132108048
Yes.
But he claimed that every political group was being lobbied by the exact same groups.

I'd say there'd be a little diversity.
I think lobbying is the cancer of any democracy, but it's not as bad as he paints it.

>>132107988
95% of the VOTING population
Which includes 18 year olds.

And how can you say "people aren't allowed to vote" and "getting a lot of people to vote is bad" in the same line?
Are you that blind to your autism?

Politicians, over 4 years, typically have to do more than whatever they campaigned on, m8.
But they're the ones you choose and whose ideals SHOULD be aligned with yours as you voted them in.

Once again, never said it was perfect, but it's not as bad as you claim.


And a blind ballot is a good thing, retard.

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>>132100059

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>>132100059
Taxes are inevitable, but you can kick out minorities.

Former an-cap, who saw the light.
People are too stupid to be given the freedom to control the markets. The whole idea of the free market sorting itself out is terrible because it will never sort itself out correctly, and you would have continuous chaos as joe shmuck and his private army sets fire to a rival for "violating the NAP."
Centralized control is the key to order.

>>132108354

Where did I imply that I'm satisfied with the status quo?

>>132108228
>dude, you're like, just a resource maaaaaaaaaaan like everyone else maaaan stop complaining
You know what there Slavoj I think I'll stick to having an opinion even if that makes me come off as some kind of silly John Wayne Amellican rodeo clown-man to you.

>>132107997
>border agency
>Letting hundreds of thousands of (((refugees))) in to (((culturally enrich))) the population
>police officers
>runs away from terror attack leaving citizens to fend for themselves
>arrests Facebook shitposter for criticizing the (((refugees)))

Nice use of your money there, Pip

>>132108491
>>>/hm/
just cut to the chase bro

>>132100769
How is this any different from living in Philadelphia?

But you get things for your taxes. If you don't consent, then move to whatever other nation will have you
I really don't understand this argument

I think the origin of this is from white Americans, who know that their tax money does not go to fund their own social interests, but rather gets scooped up by all these other feeder groups milking the system

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In a truly democratic society, you consent via voting on the implementation of public resources and services. However, it's pretty obvious from the luxurious lifestyle of politicians, that they are either bought or are profiting off our taxes, fucking the rest of us in the process.

civilization, memeball.

>>132108301
>The bureaucratic middle man who's accountable to the taxpayer
Hahahaha. Bureaucrats are accountable to nobody. Every time a new party gets into power, you get a reshuffling of cabinet posts and ministers get asigned to various ministries, but the only bureaucrats who ever risk getting changed out are senior directors who answer to that minister. And since the norm is to have ministers who don't know anything about the ministry they're directing, they tend to rely on the established bureaucracy to execute their bright ideas, until the next party wins and that minister gets switched out for a new one.

>>132108396
>And how can you say
Because democracy is garbage?

>Politicians, over 4 years, typically have to do more than whatever they campaigned on, m8.
No, they really don't. Just because it is the norm for a politician to justify his paycheck in order to continue winning a glorified popularity contest, doesn't mean he HAS to do it.

>But they're the ones you choose
And what if you don't choose any of them because their ideals aren't aligned with yours? What if they claim their ideals are aligned, but they pass legislation that you would have never consented to?

Are you starting to see how saying "in a democracy, people make the rules" is absurdly simplistic and ignorant of how it actually works?

>blind ballot is a good thing
I understand the rationale behind it. I'm pointing out that it comes with a great cost; a politician cannot demonstrate which people actually consent to his position or actions. It's part of the reason we are having this debate. No such debate occurs when you have a lawyer and his client, or a doctor and his patient.

>>132107734
Just look up how cost-externalization incentivises corruption. People lobby the government all the time to pay for shit they can't afford and that cost gets passed down to the citizens and their children and grandchildren. There is nothing sustainable about any of this and when each state collapses, we're all going to be stuck with anarchy for a while no matter what you agree with.

I just want to make the best of that situation by encouraging people to trade and compete rather than coerce as their government has done.

>>132103732
christianity is more like civic nationalism
ironically islam is more like natsoc

>>132108701

No shit, part of the reason this country was established was to escape what the people of the time viewed as unfair taxation.

Now we have income tax, land tax, property tax, excise tax, sales tax, capital gains tax, estate tax, social security tax, medicaid tax, health insurance (Might as well count as a tax since it's compulsory now and if you don't have it they penalize you on taxes)

And that's just the shit I know about as an assetless poorfag.

>>132108862
Isn't a company a democracy? Shareholders vote and decide on CEO's and representatives that enact their company policy.

It seems like libertarians are fine with collective ownership in this context, but when it comes to collective democratic ownership over roads, parks, sidewalks, borders....etc. they suddenly have a massive mental roadblock. I think they are not as logical or rational as they pretend to be

>>132108701
It doesn't go toward anybody's "social interest"
Obama said "free doctor" for seven and a half years and yet all the people who voted for him ended up with a fancy extortion program in the end.
They are not looking out for you.

>>132108862
>Because democracy is garbage?
It's garbage because it's garbage. Makes sense, guy.

>No, they really don't. Just because it is the norm for a politician to justify his paycheck in order to continue winning a glorified popularity contest, doesn't mean he HAS to do it.
So they just do their campaign goals then sit there, ignoring any changes around the world or within the country?

>And what if you don't choose any of them because their ideals aren't aligned with yours?
Then you're a minority and get fucked in a democracy.
That's how they work, guy. Majority rule.

>a politician cannot demonstrate which people actually consent to his position or actions
Yes they can. They count the votes.


>>132108887
If you really think every democracy in the world is just going to collapse into anarchy, you should probably kys.
Not only because it's a fucking retarded stance, but it'd better suit you than the anarchy you envisage.

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What makes anarcho-capitalism better than government ?

>>132108541

Hey, that's fine. Got nothing against that. I was just hoping that you might come up with some kind of revolutionary idea that could actually be a feasible alternative to our current system. I guess that the only non-tax solution is to live in a utopia-like country that's completely automated and ran by robots, led by a non genocidal AI or an altruistic council that wants nothing in return for providing us with our basic needs, and maybe even material goods...

Sadly, I don't think we'll get to see that kind of society in our lifetimes.

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>>132106651
Nice

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>>132106651
Tip top kek m8

>>132109046
The difference, of course, is that companies are private entities and governments are not. If you want to vote for the board of directors of a company, you must first go out and buy shares. The company does not give out shares for free. And any policies that the company creates do not affect anyone except those who sought out employment with it.

This isn't really a difficult concept.

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>>132109187
>Sadly, I don't think we'll get to see that kind of society in our lifetimes.
heh, you'll see

>>132109187
It's something to work toward.

>>132100059
It's passive consent. If you don't like paying taxes in exchange for the host of services and protections the state provides you are welcome to leave said state or found your own.

If the state would forgo taxation what then becomes its means of income?

As long as money exists taxes must exist. Taxes need to be fair and equitable, they need reform, not elimination.

>>132107515
>built and funded by the state
sure

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>>132100059

>Not consenting to pay taxes

But you ARE consenting, because you can NOT pay taxes, and get the fuck out of the country, or find other ways to survive.

Noone is forcing you to pay taxes, but if you want to engage with things that are NOT yours, then you have to pay taxes.

When you buy land, you're not 100% sovereign in that land. The state technically owns that land still, but just gives you permission to call it yours.

TL:DR : Ancappers are mentally retarded

>>132100059
No one forces you to pay taxes to the state.
You can leave anytime, no one is keeping you there.

This is exactly complaining that asking for rent it theft.

>>132100059
Just because some people are fucking it up doesnt mean the system itself is broken

Communism sounds like a great idea on paper but since humans manage it, the entire system gets fucked up and is labelled a bad thing

>>132109256
>any policies that the company creates do not affect anyone except those who sought out employment with it.
I totally disagree. The actions of a company have huge impacts on the entire society.

Anyway, didn't you choose to live in that town? So by living there, didn't you choose to be subject to the rules and regulations that govern that town? In your retarded autistic model, I suppose you could consider the town a "corporation" and the people living in are the customers.

>>132109150
I'm not your guy, friend.

>It's garbage because it's garbage
No, it's garbage because of some of the issues I mentioned, as well as quite a few others. I direct you to H. Hoppe if you want a full examination of why it's shit.

>then sit there
Yes. The assumption you're making, like countless others, is that government needs to keep continually passing new laws, creating new initiatives, and doing more and more things. I posit that it doesn't.

>Then you're a minority and get fucked in a democracy
So you agree that it's shit. You also agree that those who lost the election are by definition not consenting to the actions of the victorious government. Progress, at least.

>They count the votes
That only tells them that there is a number of people within the country who explicitly supported them in the election. It doesn't say WHICH people did so. Neither does it say whether they still support them.

>>132100769
>You're fucking retarded. Enjoy the run-down streets and awful schools
>and the niggers, illegal spics, and Hasidic Jews, who are living like kings and don't have to work

FTFY

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>>132100059

>>132109496
>the actions of a company have huge impacts on the entire society
And in most cases, the only way those impacts happen is through voluntary interaction.

>didn't you choose to live in that town?
Does the town government own the land within the town? Are you merely a tenant? If so, how did they come by that property?

>>132109812
>how did they come by that property?
They fought for it. Blood and steel

Are you naive to how the world works?

>>132100059
you consent to pay taxes by working at a job and/or purchasing items and services. i was homeless for 3 years and didnt pay a dime in taxes.

>>132109861
Robin Hood is a story about an Englishman fighting against his Norman overlords.

This was a big issue in England, the Normans were of Nordic stock and had practically zero ethnic connection to the local population. Thus they oppressed them in a ruthless tyranny. This really is an ethnic conflict more than it is a class conflict, or a conflict between state and individual

>>132107090
I'm not sure if you're trolling or stupid.
In common wealth countries all land is owned by the crown. That's why we have property taxes.
So yes technically all land in a country is owned by the government

>>132109599
>You also agree that those who lost the election are by definition not consenting to the actions of the victorious government.
No fucking shit you illiterate monkey, it's a democracy. It's majority rule.

>I posit that it doesn't.
I posit that you're clinically retarded.
The government can't just shutdown for years on end.
The country changes. Foreign countries change.

You elect them to lead for 4 years, not to build a wall and get rid of all the mexicans.

> It doesn't say WHICH people did so
It shouldn't.
>Neither does it say whether they still support them.
If people vote, then the next day want to change their vote, they didn't really care in the first place.

>>132100059
My entire country runs on a 20 percent sales tax. Flat taxers thing the US would make more money taxing everyone 25 percent. And would remove the IRS

>>132109984
hmmmmmmmmm hummmm I wonder if a modern parallel could be drawn here.......

>>132109172
This is excellent

>>132110090
Your country is also an offshore tax haven where multi-billionaires store their money to dodge mainland taxes. That is the reason your tax rate is so low.

>>132100059
do you like maintained roads?
do you like having police to keep things orderly?
do you like having someone to stop your house from burning down?
do you like having your trash picked up?
do you like running water?
do you like electricity?

>fucking pay your taxes faggot

>>132100059
>job = slavery

yeah try to be NEET and leech of benefit

>>132110200
That makes no sense. Its a tax haven. Aka my gov gets zero dollars from that money. They only make tax money off the people who get paid a wage for managing that money. Dont talk about things you know nothing about

>>132109873
If Tyrone shoots you in the stomach and takes your car, does this mean he becomes the rightful owner because of blood and steel?

>>132109998
How did the Crown come by that property?

>>132110016
>illiterate monkey
Kek. Use your literacy to reread the OP, and see if you can figure out which concept this thread is about.

>You elect them to lead for 4 years, not to build a wall and get rid of all the mexicans.
Have you looked up the last 10 bills your parliament passed yet? Still waiting.

>If people vote, then the next day want to change their vote, they didn't really care in the first place.
If a politician says he will do a thing, and then not only doesn't do it, but does a whole bunch of shit he never even mentioned, people are supposed to continue supporting him because
>well, I did vote for the guy...

When you hire a plumber to fix your sink, but instead he breaks the toilet and puts in a shower stall in your living room, are you obligated to pay him because you did originally hire him to do the job? Why are politicians exempt from the same rules that apply to literally every other interaction between agent and client?

>>132110213
dont you mean:
do you like funding wars?

By this logic rent and wages are also theft (which they are)

>>132110387
>If Tyrone shoots you in the stomach and takes your car, does this mean he becomes the rightful owner because of blood and steel?
In a situation with no government, yes. In a situation where I am a member of a nation, poor Tyrone has to fight his way through the whole US military to become the rightful owner of that car

>>132100059
Usage of a Disney character without their permission is a violation of the NAP

>>132110213
...so one of your wonderful state senators can embezzle the money and provide you with almost none of that in return. Sounds great!

>>132110506
For a commie like you

>>132110213
Do you get free electricity and water from your gov? We have metering for this.

>>132110213
....people pay private companies for water and electricity, the roads are actually worked on by private contractors who get paid by the respective cities in many cases, and a lot of smaller municipalities use volunteer firefighters.

Will give you cops and garbage collection though.

>>132110410
>do you like sending foreign aid to sand people?
>do you like funding SJW art projects?
>do you like lining bureaucrat pockets?
>do you like funding a massive dysgenics project to ensure the destruction of the white race?
The list goes on.

>>132109984
no, because the nobles who made john sign the magna carta were also norman.
those without lands didnt have any say about the king

>>132110387
Because when you buy a piece of land in Canada it's in fucking Canada.
The Canadian government provides services to protect it and you.
We have free healthcare, police, firefighters, roads, infrastructure, education to post secondary, subsidized education in post secondary, & the fact you're born in this country guarantees you that you're in the global 1%.
So you have to pay your share you ungrateful sack of shit

>>132110387
>If Tyrone shoots you in the stomach and takes your car, does this mean he becomes the rightful owner because of blood and steel?

Yes no one owns anything "rightfully" since your just enforcing your own strength to say it's yours and not the homless man down the road who could sell it to buy food.

However that's a flawed example since the police cap tyrone and get your car back proving Police>>>Tyrone.

A better example would be the Blacks in south Africa and Zimbabwe genocide the whites and take all their shit. Muh white rights mean nothing when there's 100 angry niggers and they make up 99% of the population

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>>132110590
Stay mad classcuck.

>>132100059

It's EXTORTION, though I'd argue that taxation is theft just rolls off the tongue much more easily.

>>132110719
It's funny that this is actually a pretty good argument.

>>132110387
>Have you looked up the last 10 bills your parliament passed yet? Still waiting.
I didn't vote for the current Federal government, but they're here if you want to see
http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislation

>people are supposed to continue supporting him because
You don't have to support him but that's who you elected.
If you want to change that system, make it an election issue in 4 years.

Your analogy is shit, btw.
A better one would be 2 people living in the house, 1 wants a new sink, other wants a shower in the living room. Both hire plumbers to do the jobs.

>>132109861
Robin Hood stole from the absentee landlord and gave it back to the peasant. He was a socialist.

>>132110557
The thing is, when you invoke "might makes right", the concept of "rightful property" becomes meaningless. There is no right to property, there is only the ability to hold property for some period of time, until it is taken from you by someone else.

Unless, of course, you want to throw out any coherent code of ethics. At which point there is no use arguing with you, as "ought" statements lose all meaning too.

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>>132110719
Stay mad, starving loser - my place is not even 600$ a month for a 6 rooms + hangar


Have fun in dad's basement

>>132110868
Might does make right. This is an objective truth, you cannot argue this. It's a simple statement of fact.

These property rights only exist because of our mighty armies defending and protecting the interior

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>>132106651

>>132100769
>You're fucking retarded. Enjoy the run-down streets and awful schools


Do you know ancaps are ok with that right??

Thats literally the point of ancap

Being ok with getting diarrhea if this allow them to eat 5 chocolate bars in a row

>>132110617
>The list goes on.
do you like bailing out bankers?
do you like fighting other countries wars?
do you like funding terrorism groups in secret?
do you like funding degeneracy?
do you like paying holocaust reparations?
The list goes on.

You live in a society with a democratic elected government. By choosing to live there, you are giving consent to take part in policies they create and in exchange, you get to have a say in who should be leaders and policy makers

>>132110809
This is the anarchist argument against private property (absentee ownership).

http://www.infoshop.org/AnarchistFAQSectionB3

Read this for a pretty good breakdown on why we oppose private property.

Ancaps don't want to abolish the state, only privatise it.

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current system works somewhat. and you can use it to your advantage if you're smart enough

The problem is everyone has no imagination of what could be and no understanding of how advanced our technology is and has been for a long time.

food, water and shelter for all has been within our grasp for some time now. hemp, solar+nanotubes(mass production is available), permaculture(our land is being wasted on trash products, also grow food not lawns and if its illegal what are you doing to change that?

PEONS, SLAVES AS FAR AS THE EYE CAN SEE.

>>132100769
>You're fucking retarded. Enjoy America as it is today and has always been

nah im alright

>>132110719
This picture would make sense if some countries didnt forced you to pay taxes even if you leave it

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>>132106651

>>132100985
>he lives in SC

>>132101044
A German socialist. Nothing new here.

>>132108709
jesus, this is cringey

>>132111099
People need somewhere to live and for most people the choice is either become destitute or pay rent. Their is no choice.

>>132110868
Tibet can cry all about it's private property but China wins
The Turds can cry to the turks about being oppressed but Turkey wins
The native Americans can cry all they want about muh special land but the police gladly kick them off it when there's oil under it

Might makes right. If Canada was founded by Muslims who could hold it against other Euroepan powers you'll have an entirely different outlook on society, assuming your somehow the same person just raised in that society.

muh natural rights, and muh freedoms all begin and end at the barrel of a gun

>>132111213
there is an audio version, too bad I can't find it

>>132110671
You didn't answer my question. How did the Crown come by this land?

>we have free
Stopped reading right there. If you think anything is free in this world, you have the understanding of a child.

>>132110673
see>>132110868

>>132110840
Those bills are for your benefit, not mine. Take a look at them and see how many you had any clue about.

Then remember what you said about "the people" making the rules. Those bills are the rules. How could you possibly make them when you didn't even know they existed?

>Your analogy is shit, btw
It demonstrates the point. Yours doesn't. Both would have to hire only one plumber, and he will only put in one sink or one shower, but not both. Which further proves my point, that 50% of the household did not consent to the installation of that particular fixture.

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>>132105684
You received 1000 illegal migrants and made them happy with new iPhones where they watch interracial porn and think our blondes are just public sexual property.

>>132110719

>cultivating land and building + maintaining a home is worthless as a service

Go live in an empty lot then. Go to africa, make a mudhut.

>>132110868
it doesnt become meaningless it becomes distilled.
the basis if sovereignty is the ability to defend it, and thus the basis of property is the ability to hold it. it has always been this way, people just forgot

>>132100059
Except there's no consent

There's "gimme your money or I'll arrest you and then kill you if you resist that"

>>132105836
The only guard against that is a community of like minded individuals that are willing to invest time into studying common law + local statutes and acts to the point that they can and do stop council etc from over stepping their jurisdiction based on assumption of power facilitated by a brain dead populace

considering a lot of people living off the grid are loners by choice, you can see why this is not a frequent occurrence

>>132100769
>and awful schools
We already have awful schools.
US is leading the world with the worst exit exams in history.

>>132100801
you could start your own damn business

>>132100059
Of course taxation is theft. Any sane and honest person knows this. The deal is whether or not we'd be better off without it. That's a pretty big gamble.

>>132100769
We have some of the highest taxes in the world and the streets are shit and the schools are goddamn awful

>>132111514
With what capital? I can't create a business from nothing.

>>132100838
And on what land am I meant to do this on? All land is either privately owned or claimed by the state. Any attempt to farm off the grid will result in me getting arrested.

>>132111636
When you buy an expensive item it could be low quality, but it could be high quality.
When you buy a cheap item however, it can only be low quality.

>>132110944
>>132111228
No, it isn't. Might makes things happen, to be sure. Whether those things are "right" is an issue of moral philosophy. And like me, you are most definitely concerned with what is right, otherwise you wouldn't be arguing right now.

>>132111351
No. If property only belongs to someone because they can stop others from taking it, "rightful property" cannot have any meaning. What meaning could it possibly have when every candidate for proprietor is as good as the next, so long as they can somehow, through trickery or violence, wrest it from their grasp?

As I explained earlier, "right" is a philosophical concept. If we are to discuss how things "ought" to be, we implicitly acknowledge that ethics is a thing.

>>132111747
>what meaning could there be if any owner was as good as the next
the meaning is you own it

>>132109172
um, just pick up the can you littering dickhead.

>>132111707
Live with the amish, they need the new genes anyway.

>>132111912
You don't own it, you are temporarily holding it in your hand until someone can kill you and take it. Ownership necessarily implies an ethical right to own that thing, and the corollary ethical wrong to take it from its rightful owner.

>>132100838
You need money to use land without authorities fucking your shit up.
You need to find a land that still isn't used too much, is possible to live in and has animals to hunt and plants to harvest.

>>132112108
no.
ownership is physical ownership of material goods. there is no spiritual significance to owning a material good

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>>132106651
W E W L A D
E
W
L
A
D

>>132111747
>No, it isn't. Might makes things happen, to be sure. Whether those things are "right" is an issue of moral philosophy. And like me, you are most definitely concerned with what is right, otherwise you wouldn't be arguing right now.

Unless you can prove some subjective correct morality which exists across all time and human history there is no such thing. Morality is simply what you believe in and what you think is "right and wrong"

A christian would object to murder of any kind
A spartan throws deformed babies of cliffs

ww2 for example was a war for total control of a society and in practicality the future of the West and the World. the winner educates the future children and his morality wins. If communism won the cold war you bet you would be a nice little collectivist commie

>>132100769
Anon, the school I graduated from was literally just built and renovated while in my junior year. They spent $10 million on that school, and after three months it already started to look like a shithole

>>132112182
>ownership is physical ownership of material goods
Ownership in your sense is indistinct from possession. When a monkey takes your sunglasses, it becomes the new owner. When the dog catches the frisbee, it becomes the new owner. And when Tyrone shoves a gun in your face and takes your wallet, he becomes the new owner. Care to explain why the state you so vehemently support claims that it is you, and not Tyrone, who is the rightful owner of that wallet? After all, might makes right, so there can be no motivation for a stronger outside party to do anything except become the new owner.

>>132112321
>moral subjectivist
This discussion is at an end, it seems.

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>>132107515
>visit US
>rent car
>drive on highway
>drive through ezpass only lane
>no ezpass
>stop at highway rest
>ask what to do
>literally tells me to drive back (even though you can't cross the highway)
>just keep driving
>finally exit highway
>already late at night
>some black guy sitting in the booth
>prepare to get my ass raped
>tell him what I did
>asks where I got on the highway
>only had to pay the regular price
the whole way I thought police cars are going to pit me any time now

what were actual consequences I could've faced there?