Where did Germany go wrong in WWII?

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>>132044238
lurk more

>>132044238
Should of never played with the russians. Instead Hitler should of further entangled them in diplomacy and send them to die on the battlefields instead.

Also Japan fucked up hard bombing pearl harbor. Should of kept the Japs in Manchuria.

>>132044238
germany was already on bad terms since WW1, also a lot of the world (america, africa, etc) was already colonized

>take over the world
that was never really their plan

>what to do better
1. don't break your pact with the soviets
2. don't break international law / violate neutrality
3. kill british and french soldiers as opposed to expecting them to join you for no good reason
4. find better /closer allies than japan
5. don't declare war on the usa
6. actually exterminate the jews and others, as opposed to trying to create the EU
7. don't do civilian bombings
8. don't sink trade ships
9. don't pick wars with slavs in general
we could go on

>>/his/

There are two main reasons the Germans lost from my estimation.

First of all was the fact that Hitler refused to put the German economy on total war footing until it was too late, in 1943. Up to then Germany was still running a near civilian economy, as Hitler promised the German people the war would not affect their way of life. If he had fully mobilised Germany industry before, or at the start of, the war, they would have been in a significantly better position on all fronts and the improvement this could have made to every theatre in every aspect of the war is unimaginable.

Second main reason for their loss was lack of cooperation with the other Axis countries. Germany barely cooperated with Italy, but did not cooperate at all with Japan, while the Allies were cooperating the entire time. If the Axis had worked together more they may have been much more successful, with potentially Germany planning Barbarossa to coincide with a Japanese invasion from the east, which would have meant the USSR would have had to keep a large army on their eastern front. The main reason the Wehrmacht failed to capture Moscow in 1941 was because the USSR signed a non-aggression treaty with Japan and they were able to reinforce the front around Moscow with elite winter troops from the Japanese border.

>>132044238
Germany's biggest problem was Hitler himself. >Always thought he knew better
>would deny better weapons for his army because he didnt like how they looked
>would second guess his generals
>Thought denying rations to his own troops would motivate them
I could go on

>>132045912
Oh and he also all development on his Luftwaffe because he thought they were already perfect. Giving the allies time to improve their own aviation technology

>>132044238
Betraying the commies.

>>132046458
He had to. The USSR was mobilising and rearming at the same time and if he had waited any longer there would be no chance of victory against them.

>>132045077

The Soviets kept 3 million soldiers minimum in the east for the entire war and 80% of the IJA was held up in China. There was no way on Earth that Japan could've opened up that front and won.

>>132046186

Now that's just stupid. Well over half of all German war production was planes. They fielded a large amount variants that were produced and improved bases on their combat experiences, including the first combat jets.

TEST

>>132046765

Stalin legitimately thought they could've had an alliance up until Barbarossa.

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>>132044238

The Russian winter

>>132047386
The mass rearmament programme of the USSR suggest otherwise.

>>132044238
Germany could have never won the war because it wasn't within god's plan. Literally lost before it even started

>>132044549
Hitler attacked Russia in a preemptive attack. They were going to try rush through an already weakened Europe, so Der Fürher saved Western Europe from Communism.

>>132047582

Why? Their military was in shambles because of the multiple patterns of rifles, tanks, uniforms, and trucks used and issued, not to mention that Stalin murdered most of his officers.

It wasn't a "re"armament it was a fucking armament program. The Red Army was a joke.

>>132044238
Japan never should have attacked Pearl Harbor. Were the Japanese TRYING to destroy western civilization? I say we nuke Japan again.

>>132047615

Doubtful. There is pretty threadbare evidence to suggest that.

>>132047838
History is written by the victors. Its easy for evidence to disappear.

Im the type that thinks most of the bodies in the Concentration Camps came from the Russians and as a cover up the Good Goys couldn't leave the public think their ally army was actually the mass murderers

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>>132044379
>"Haha, you would think that NS was an alternative to niggerloving bullshit, but guess what, IT ISN'T. Hahah loving niggers is freaking based, celebrate diversity with noogs in Stahlhelms"

KYS

>>132047615
More info on this, thought Nazi's were raiding other country's to keep to German economy afloat?

>>132044238
>Where did Germany go wrong in WWII?
Letting Hitler have to much say on the battlefield.

>>132044238
>If their end game was to take oer the world
It wasn't. Hitler wanted former German parts and new parts in the east. That's it. He tried to find peace with western nations (france, UK, US) but they wanted war. The only reason Germany was fighting in Africa and the balcans to begin with was because Italys army didn't get shit done

>>132044238

>didn't approve the making of the first assault rifle that would have won russia
>didn't approve the first fighter jet until 1945, when it was already too late
>should have prepared for winter
>should have captured the 400,000 soldiers trapped at dunkirk, and could have negotiated peace with the anglo's with such a large blow

>>132047316

wrong, hitler didn't even use the fighter jet until the last months of the war, while they were overpowered 1000 to 1

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>>132044238
Not fuck with the Russians until Japan could come at them from the other side.

>>132046785
this,

when will this meme die?

Japan attacked the USSR in 1939 and got its ass handed to it.

They had no plans to attack USSR again.

>>132044238
Dunkirk was the only real mistake and cost them the war.

>>132048894
Also should have given up on the obsession with super heavy tanks

>>132048185

No, like, we have access to a lot of after action reports and reports from Allied advisers on the Ostfront that detail pretty well how poorly organized and equipped and how little prepared the Red Army was.

The standard issue rifle of the Soviet Union was the SVT-40 until war broke out, and they realized that there was literally no way to arm even most of their soldiers with the rifle in the time it would take to organize a resistance which is why they said fuck it and went back to the Mosin.

In the opening months of the war the Mosin, captured Finnish Mosins, SVT-38s, captured Finnish SVT-38s, and SVT-40s were all being used and even that left some infantry divisions with a third of their men unarmed.

>>132048913
they tried before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Khalkhin_Gol

>>132048894

How was what I said wrong?

>most of their war production was planes

Yes, literally over 50% of their war industry was being used for planes.

>they used several variants of aircraft based on their encounters

Just look at the number of variants the Bf 109 has, all of them developed after encounters with enemies (mainly the RAF)

>they developed jets

Yes, they developed and deployed fighter jets.

>>132046458
no. Hitler's surprise invasion on the soviets was a great move.
The soviets were in attack formation with fucking millions of soviet soldiers captured, tons of soviet hardware was destroyed. It was a masterstroke.
Italy idiocy in the balkans and other places delayed Operation Barbarossa.


>>132046785
The japs didn't have to advance on the soviets only hold them and hope for a partition for when Germany causes a collapse of soviet government. Japs had no threat of mainland invasion at that moment in time.

Japs on Pearl harbor was a bad calculation. The axis needed to keep the US out of the war as long as possible. Japan was too dumb to understand that from WW1 lesson.
Japan should have peaced out of the second sino-jap war for some natural resource concessions and Manchuria. It was not a winnable war.

>>132048629
I think it was called Operation Thunder. If you watch Adolf Hitler: The Greatest Story Never Told they go on about it at the end.

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>>132044238
Ok even if the Germans won...
>They cloud never keep all that territory.

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>>132049360
You read all that in a "History Book"

>>132044238
they should've never engaged in war.. with the people actually understanding what was going on it had never come to that.. germany before the war made US look little toddlers. evenso i admire his resolve in all the anti european rethoric though i don't agree with the decision.. if there ever was a time for take a slap in the face for us all that time was it.. evenso that strength that they stood for without backing down shows true courage.. there's a lot of elements to why hitler was fighting.. and why he went into russia so massively in a fight he could not possibly win. 1918-23 commie revolution in germany attempted, similar in russia succeeded. Hitler threw the house of germany against the communists.. what happened just after the war they don't talk about that much.. i wonder why. massive rape deliberate killings of tens of millions of german civilians etc. "deserved it" not even mentioned it's "ok".. and ofcourse the oppression for resistance to be ruled by the jewish banking system, continued for 50+ years this undermining of some of the best people in world history.
Hindsight is always 20/20 but consider these two speeches for what hitlers motivations were, they were not about war
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtNRwTl1sRk
These democratic zeroes..

>>132044379
>Le Based Neger

>>132049993
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRmyk-IfIsM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnWfHZkhr3U
a few videos of germany before the war.. notice.. clean streets beautiful idols of strength and authority.. all gone.. Don't forget hitler was not a dictator in that he just fucked the people, no he elevated them like never before and got them out of a depresson after ww1 by their work and their achievements they created it. This was germany before the war.. US looked like shit in comparison hitler even joked about how these stupid people talk about bringing germany down when they could not even take care of their own properly.. boy did he end up being wrong about the outcome though.
To go a bit bump in the night, i think hitler discovered the lanteans technology and wanted to utilize it hence the order of the black sun was etched into the ss headquarters, with this technology they indeed would have defeated the entire world, but was not for them to use because right lineage the conditions of criteria was not met... effaced germany lost big league..

>>132049351

The Panther was a decent tank and would've been great if they fixed the drive train issues.

The issue is that Germans developed a variant of everything for everything even though they really didn't need to.

Look at the most prolific US armored units and you will see mainly Sherman chassis. Lots of them. They used them for the Sherman tanks, the M10 TD, the Priest, and the Kangaroo APC. They used the same parts, had similar maintenance, and had been improved over years to be almost totally reliable.

The Germans were lucky to get 30% of their tanks combat ready at any time of any variant by 1944 because of parts shortages, shortages of people trained to maintain the tanks, and inherent unreliability in the designs. Even the measures they took to simplify things were bad. They tried to use a modified PzIV drive train for the Panther which was like, twice the weight or something which is why they blew transmissions every 100km or less.

Every new variant, every new vehicle, every new gun, is a new logistic web, which taxed an extremely shitty logistic system.

At the onset of Barbarossa the Germans were using 134 patterns of truck, so you have 134 supply lines to supply the trucks for your supply lines. This is why even by the end of the war most of Germany's logistics were horse drawn, compared to the Western Allies being totally motorized.

The original plan for Barbarossa was to force capitulation in 13 weeks. The logisticians, worried, said that German supply lines could only hold for 12 maximum. The new plans were the same except given a deadline of 11 weeks, some generals believed they would have Moscow within 6. That is the delusion if the German general staff.

Idiots talk equipment
Amateurs talk tactics
Experts talk logistics

>>132050827
Their entire logo/swaztika/black sun/ depended upon this technology brining forth the lineages was only a part of the step. Denied of this..could not hope to succeed.. The kind of research for why tesla was also killed.

>>132049782

You don't get it. The Japs couldn't "hold them"

The 3 million (minimum, after pulling over a million to defend Moscow) would immediately curbstomp the IJA and would liberate most of China within the year. These men were not the conscripts that were raised in the West. These men were generally contract or professional soldiers from before the war, well trained, well fed, and fully armed with SVT-40 rifles and PPSh submachine guns. These guys were no joke, and the Japanese did not have the manpower, armor, or equipment to stop those men while still fighting millions of Chinese.

>>132049985

Whatever. That's not an argument but alright.

>>132049993
for hitlers larger motivations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukwA--tIokg&spfreload=10 hitler speaking of europe in total and his humility of trying to protect it.

>>132050854
he threw the germans against the communist russia to save europe from communism.. The ultimate sacifice. This communism tried what they succeeded in russia to do in germany in 1918-23 and NOBODY TALKS ABOUT IT..

>>132051231
Why so passive aggressive?

Tits or gtfo.

>>132044379
WE
WUZ
WERMACHT

russia was pretty critical and most people agree

everything else is more speculative I think,

>>132051499

Lenin was essentially a German plant to destroy Russia. They asked for it. It wasn't their plan exactly to cause a revolution bit that's what happened.

>>132051526

You either see the facts or stuff your head in the sand. If you want to debate me that's fine, come up with an argument and some facts and we can have a nice back and forth, but "jews" is not am argument whenever we have pretty detailed reports from Germany, the Allies, Japan, Allied advisers and observers in the Soviet Union and (some) reports from Russia.

>>132051914
>Lenin was essentially a German plant to destroy Russia. They asked for it. It wasn't their plan exactly to cause a revolution bit that's what happened.
How many times do i have to hear this argument it irks me so much.. Communism was JEWISH INVENTION.. it was the JEWS who destroyed russia and also attempted similar overthrow in germany in 1918-23.. which was part of why hitler hated the jews so with a passion that he wanted these communist jews OUT of germany so much that he did the havaara agreement to send the jews to an establishment of a jewish state to get rid of them.. so then they atleast could not be a concern to start shit in the middle of europe..

>>132051836

The entire war was an accident.

Germany had specifically developed their military for short, sharp wars to be fought and won by crushing morale and forcing capitulation. We saw this in Poland, Yugoslavia, BeNeLux, and France, with an attempt in Russia.

Germany was simply not built for long wars, their generals were not versed in them, their logistics were total shit, and their natural resource pool was a joke.

Poland folded because of the Soviets, and could've fought a decent defensive war if proper aid was actually supplied instead if just promised.

France folded because they legitimately thought that Belgium would build their part of the Maginot, and their combined arms doctrine (or lackthereof) was so shit along with absolutely no popular support and something close to a revolution almost occurring anyway.

Russia collapsed in the opening stages because of the conflicting orders from Moscow, the total lack of supplies, the absence of real leadership on the ground, and the refusal of Moscow to accept the current situation and a pile of operational fuckups in the first weeks.

>>132052130
You forget that russia was an proud situation with the tzar etc. and the communist overthrew him.. and plunged russia into such depts that they are still recovering from it.. What was their argument, that the tzar (gods protector of russia) was a sham and that this system was oppressing the workers.. And they tried same in germany to destroy the german empire. But failed, and after which hitler rose, and they had every reason to hate the jews who tried to orchestrate such things.. THEY FUCKING NEARLY OVERTHREW GERMANY WITH A COMMUNIST REVOLUTION YOU CUNTS..
>oy vey all that antisemitism
Look at russia look at the leaders of that failed overthrow of germany.. JEWISH.. So ofcourse the germans hated the communist jews there would be something mentally wrong with them if they didn't..

>>132051914
Here dude. I cant be bothered typing but this is part of the theory.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icebreaker_(Suvorov)

>>132052130

>Lenin potentially starting shit in Germany
>Germany sends him to Russia so that he can be their problem
>Lenin leads a revolution and creates the Soviet Union

Literally asking for it. There are a set of events that led to the creation of the USSR and among them were the fact that the commoners were being taxed into the ground and feudal style serfdom still fucking existed. Anyone offering a system better than literal serfdom would've gotten attention. If an American patriot promising freedom was in his shoes instead we would've seen a democratic uprising.

>>132044238
1. Don't let Japan attack America
2. Have Japan focus forces on Russia from the east

It was literally that simple.

>>132044238
Where did it go wrong?

The simple fact that they"d kill people simply because of their birth and not because of their deeds.

>>132044238

>Think it's good the nazis lost
You sure you're on the right board?

>>132053159
>a bunch of crazy megalomaniacs winning a war
>good

>>132053016
>Literally asking for it.
Go see my new replies.
Sometimes people like you just need a slap in the fucking face.
I don't even hate you but you are so obstninant and unfortunately much of the populace are idiots like you who don't even know the things they need to know. But make decisions by a majority vote.

>>132052940

Yeah, but Glantz, probably the most well read westerner on Soviet doctrine and wartime efforts offered a complete and total rebuttal to the theory. Point blank, the USSR was nowhere near a war footing in 1941.

It is an interesting theory in hindsight, but the evidence just doesn't stack up.

>>132052765
The Tsar? Same inbred germanic figurehead which ruled simply because he was born to? The same moron which kept Russia the least developed country in Europe?
The same guy under whose rule there were more famines than one could count?

The only good crowned head is a decapitated one.

>Le juice
Yup, every jew ever is a conspirator. If you ever see a poor jew, he is just hiding his shekels, eh? I mean, it is clear, all jews have a collective mind, all arabs do so too, and all the other people, it is just whites that have differing opinions... Hehw right?

Goddamn, antisemites should be fed to dogs

>>132053287

Read literally anything by Glantz and get back to me. You can hate me but I'm right. The socio-economic situation in Russia was ripe for a revolution, and the communists did it first.

You can blame the jews, that's fine, but even if we accept that Jews did communism, the whole communism, like, the whole jews did the entire communism, they would've never gotten any ground if Russia gave half a shit about its people.

France, Germany, the US, UK, and Canada were all touch and go with some form of socialism in the 1920s-30s, but it never really happened because they had human rights and codified laws that protected people and made it look less necessary (even during the depression) but the fact that Russia had de facto slavery made communism pretty appealing.

>>132044238
The main issue in WW2 was that none of the Axis countries took it seriously at first, since everyone expected UK to arbitrate a peace deal between Germany and France/Poland, but Churchill got in power and he was a rabid war dog who would rather see Britain lose its empire than let Germany achieve its goals of restoring some of its clay.

So Italy was basically focused on grabbing as much land as it could before Britain sued for peace, and opened up theatres with no strategic value, purely as a move towards expanding its post-war influence.

So in other words, in a do-over, Italy should get its head in the game and focus on winning, rather than land grabs.

>>132044238
1. Germany shouldn't have declared war on USSR as they had just been BTFO by British in the Battle for Britain. Even without the war against USSR, RAF could have probably waged and endless air battle against Luftwaffe and it would have been a stalemate for years between British and Germans. Without op. Barbarossa Germany could have maybe even won in Africa.

2. Germany should have never declared war on USA. After that it was just a wait until America gets the nukes and hits them on Germany.

But I always admire how German army did major attacks in eastern and western fronts even when they were on the defeat, and it's different for them than it was for USSR when they were defending desperately. It wasn't sure that Soviets would lose, but when both USSR and Western Allies were pushing towards Germany with superior numbers and material it was clear that Germany was going to lose. I don't know if the German generals understood that in their time, but it's amazing they managed to launch attacks in middle of their defensive war and the men obeyed. Great army discipline.

>>132053016
Communism was created to destroy western civilization you FUCKING IDIOT.. the larger reason why jews hate european christians is too broad of a subject to get into.. but it's BUILT TO FAIL.. ON PURPOSE.. and recently venezuela is another of its unintended victims because ofcourse as it's mobilized to create a discord and mobilize low vs high.. and then as in the case of communism even farmers are burgoise.. creating a permanent upper class called THE STATE in control of everything. you silly cunts. if you are that stupid to believe communism is redpill fucking kill yourself. Not even saying it satirically i mean it LITERALLY..

>>132053857

Still wouldn't change the fact that the German war machine was not geared, prepared, or even capable of a long war or war of attrition.

>>132053961

That's fantastic but that addresses literally none of my points.

>>132044549
Only a melanin-enriched individual uses "of" as "have".

>>132053961
>>132054058

Also, just a quick question, where have i said I support communism? I'm merely stating pretty objective facts about the war.

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>>132053361
Again, Glantz. Might as well have been rebutted by Moses himself. I would refuse point blank to trust a kike on the history of the Reich.

The Jews declared war on Germany (in a way sort of similar to how the shitskins are now). The drawing of stars on their businesses was in revenge to this.

We have been fed nothing but kike bullshit for almost 80 years. Churchill and the 2 American presidents covered up a lot of shit the Russians did East of Germany.

>>132054058
what is your fucking point other than vladimir lenin was a good guy and he dinduniffin.. You retards are a dime a dousin.. "it's not real communism" "hitler was bad cause he was against communism" GO LIVE IN A COMMUNIST COUNTRY see how that works out.. go live in cuba you faggot. People want to flee, you're excited to go ride in cars from the 50's..

>>132054236

Again, if you read Glantz (he's a pretty strong patriot, by the way, legitimately good guy) you can look back through all of his sources. He does good work, he is very reputable. He has spent most of his life uncovering as many Soviet and German wartime documents as he can and he's done a lot to progress the West's understanding of Soviet and Russian doctrine.

Saying "well jews" doesn't refute tens of thousands of documents and after action reports at all levels. If you have an argument, present one. "But jews" is not an argument.

>>132054336

This has to be a troll.

>>132054336
Lenin starved people to the point of canabalism. Happens pretty regularly in Commie shitholes.

>>132044549
Only reason for them to bomb Pearl Harbor was US trade embargoes, I don't see how Hitler could have commanded what or what not the Japanese military does from half the globe away. They were not a hivemind, just like-minded nations.

>>132044238
Only attacking the commies after you have control of the middle east. Bonus points if Britain is out too.

>>132054336
>>132054596

You guys seem to think that because I'm saying that the USSR didn't seem to have immediate plans to invade Europe that I think communism is okay or good, which is not what in saying at all.

By saying that there doesn't appear to be proof that the Soviets planned to invade Europe I am just saying that there doesn't appear to be evidence that the Soviets planned to invade Europe.

>>132054588
>legitimately good guy

Did you misspell goy?

Again, I will never take the word of a Jew seriouslyin regards Hitler/the Nazis

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>>132044238
Germany could have won the WW2
>Had operation Barbarossa started on time instead of 2 week delay because of Italian fail in balkans
>Had Hitler listen to his Generals
>Had Japan attacked SU from flank instead of being pussies and just pillaging poor villages and civilians in pacific
>Not oppress Ukrainians who already hated communists and
>start War production UP from start like in the end days when you started losing

Germany was very close to winning they came to Moscow and if Moscow fell Germany would soon be winner

>>132054882

He is not an expert on Germany he is an expert on Soviet military doctrine with emphasis on WWII, specifically the Ostfront.

Please learn about who you are insulting before you do it. And again, "but jews" is not an answer.

>>132054952
The ethnic Ukrainians largely welcomed the Nazis as heros

>>132054818
>By saying that there doesn't appear to be proof that the Soviets planned to invade Europe I am just saying that there doesn't appear to be evidence that the Soviets planned to invade Europe.
Ofcourse they did, hitler went into russia because they were mass producing tanks by the shitton.. he knew that the jews ultimately responsible for communism wouldn't let him get away with it so lightly. They tried similar overthrow in germany.. but failed.

Ofcourse hitler knew the conditions of russia and the winter it was an act of desparation.

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>>132044238
Not attack Poland in the first place, therefore the Third Reich could have survived without war, Hitler would be seen by normies as a good goy, and Germany would look like this

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>>132044839
Whole point of Hitler was fight against Bolshevism. The goal was to bring down communism and soviet union

>>132054952

Nah. There was no real capability of them to pull it of. Their logistics were shit and getting worse every day. The Allies had the logistics of an entire planet, capable of supporting theater level operations anywhere on Earth.

>>132055237
>>132054818
AND WHAT HAPPENED AFTERWARDS, RUSSIAN TROOPS RAPING GERMAN WOMEN.. ALL THESE THINGS.. OH WAIT.. "greatest allies won a fight against the evil nazi's the end"

>I think they primarily fucked up by attacking Europe first. If their end game was to take oer the world, they should have started with easy targets like Africa, South America and Asia. America and Europe would have sat on the sidelines - maybe even joined in.

Have fun with your lvl-1 reality hollywood narrative of history, I guess.

Maybe read a book instead of roleplaying on /pol/ OP.

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>>132055106

I cant be bothered with you any more Noseberg.

Just ask yourself when you read it, who and why are they writing what they are writing.

Choose to believe the status quo and continue to be a good little sheep.

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>>132044238
Maybe if Hitler hadn't been a grade A retard and attacked the Soviet Union, he may have had a chance. Declaring war on three of the world's most powerful nations is pretty damn stupid. You should have to be pretty stupid yourself to idolize him.

>>132054952
Soviet defenses were not dependant on 2 weeks. Italy was just additional ally for Germany, not a burden. Imagine how it would have been if Italy was neutral/Allied nation, it's just one more enemy.

Hitler listened to his generals before and when Eastfront was doing good, when it collapsed he snapped and started ignoring them in 1942-1943, it didn't matter then anymore.

Japanese Manchurian army was so poorly equipped it was only capable of fighting shit nation like China, every time there was any confrontation between them and Soviets they got BTFO hard. Japanese had no land army to speak of, of course they wouldn't attack when they could hardly control their own enemies. When Soviets attacked them in 1945 they were completely helpless.


But I agree on the war production. Germany produced more militarily when they were losing the war hard than when they were winning.

>>132055393
Fucking wish germans were able to unlock lantean technology and i would proudly going heil the victorious ones. EVERYTHING would objectively be better than the shitshow we have today.

They shouldn't have declared war on America after US declared war on the Japs, it was a sign of retarded friendship.

>>132055258
Had to attack to save ethnic Germans. Would have been an absolute shit show if he didn't. He made multiple attempts at peace after Poland fell also.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_from_Poland_during_and_after_World_War_II

>>132055237

They weren't mass producing tanks. Germany also was not really mass producing tanks. The most prolific German tank at the onset of Barbarossa was the Pz 38(t) which was a fucking Czech prewar tank.

Also, Barbarossa was in the middle of summer, and the winter thing is a meme, German commanders believed that winter would give them an edge due to the ground freezing over and allowing German armor units to operate more effectively. This is obviously not the case but the winter thing is just something tacked on in hindsight.

>>132055481

>I can't come up even with the most basic argument so I will call you a Jewish puppet and trust in the hivemind that is Nazi dickriders

Okay, stupid.

>>132055792
>germans didn't understand russian weather cycle
Do you honestly belive the bullshit you're peddling or are you just hoping i will? Russia has always been recognized for being historically hard to invade because of its climate and contours, same thing with iran. Hitler didn't just do a oops i totally forgot about that shit.. And yes they were mass producing tanks

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>>132055950
Back you go kike

>>132044238
If Germany would have started the war in '45, they would have taken Europe. Think about it. They would have a stronger economy, FUCKING JET ENGINES, more advanced armor units, as well as a competent ally in the form of Italy. Japan could have finished off China, and they could have landed in the USSR as the Germans pushed in from the west. Also, give more aid to Finland.

>>132055750
>Had to
No he really didn't have to attack. The Germans could have just left the country they no longer controlled even if there was any discrimination.

>>132056054
When the war was lost russia fucking destroyed germany in many ways.. And the jewsA came in as a coathanger "we did this you guys we're totally the saviours of the world and awesome now".. whilst by direct order letting millions of german civilians starve to death for no reason at all except "they deserved it". Top kek.. right up there with turk atrocities.. much pride.

>>132056054

No, they weren't mass producing tanks. They made a whopping 243 tanks in 1940, which jumped to 1353 in 1941.

Also, the frozen ground did help armored vehicles, and would've helped the Germans, but German supply lines were too thin and heavily taxed to support any operational level armor movements. Basically, winter WOULD'VE helped if Germany had enough spare parts, horses, and trucks to take advantage.

>>132056071

What a joke. Read a book, nigger.

>>132056255

I'm gonna need some proof. Last I checked the US spent today's equivalent of trillions of dollars to rebuild western Europe.

>>132056473
>No, they weren't mass producing tanks. They made a whopping 243 tanks in 1940, which jumped to 1353 in 1941.
yeah that's not any increase at all considering the length of the war. Pfff. why do you think hitler even went into russia preeemptively did you ever consider that? He knew russia was getting ready to btfo germany which they did at end of the war.. the commies didn't like not being able to overthrow germany which they tried in 1918-23.

>fighting wars on all kinds of fronts
>lets make a joke let's attack russia for no reason and dedicate massive forces to this.
You people..

>>132056473
Winter never helps the attacker because their armies don't have permanent warmed barracks for their men, anything they capture is cold and without supply. People don't survive long in the cold without modern luxuries.

Spring is bad because of the melting snow and ice, but winter is even worse because you have to deal with so harsh enviornment. You can live in the cold but it requires lot of resources just for bare survival. Even Afrika Korps had nicer weather than Germans in winter USSR.

>>132056814
Learned Dane.

>>132047838

Read Victor Suvorov, anon

What if Germany won in Europe and the USA won in the Pacific, what happens? Do we pull out? Does Hitler invade the US?

>>132057459
>Does Hitler invade the US
What do you think? He didn't even have what it takes to invade the UK.

>>132057459
Cold war, just different sides.
Keep in mind, we would use nukes on the Japs if Germany was still winning.

>>132057644
wouldn't*

>>132056814

>a 556% increase in combat vehicle production is nothing

The year after that production jumped to 2635.

>jews
>jews
>attempted to overthrow
>they knew

You don't seem to fucking get it, I'm doing my best to chop this up into bite sized pieces but you just don't get it. You can believe that the jews did it and you can believe the bullshit conspiracy but that doesn't excuse why a country that apparently was on such good war footing as to be prepared to sweep into Europe and occupy the whole thing in one fell swoop had almost none of their industry tooled for war production, no organization or officer corps, no real supply lines, and was able to be blown the fuck out while losing millions and millions of soldiers by a military who's main tank was a captured prewar hunk of shit who's supply lines were mostly captured horses and had 134 patterns of trucks, with the majority of their trucks being shitty captured French ones that performed extremely poorly on every surface and in every environment except for temperate French roads.

The German army was actually kind of a fucking joke and managed to kill or capture millions in weeks while almost forcing a surrender, and the Red Army was poised to sweep into Europe, right?

>>132057039

I was talking about armored operations specifically, German armor operations would've been able to put tremendous pressure on remaining Soviet units if they had the supplies and flexibility to take action.

>>132055297

Yeah bro, he said he's fighting the Bolshevism.

Just like Bush and Obama said they fight terrorists in Middle East and not because of oil, right bro ?

Just like your Templarcucks fought because of the religion each other while letting Orthodox Christians get slaughtered by muzzie hordes and not because of political and financial interests.

Stupid retard.

>>132047615
Ribbentrop actually secured a German-Soviet alliance against Britain, but Hitler rejected it because he planned to attack them

>>132057379

As I've already stated, a boom written by an amateur historian and literal Soviet intelligence agent that has been totally picked apart by the most well read and studied men on the subject really doesn't concern me. I've read it, I think he is wrong. I think that to justify Russia working with Nazis they created this post war mythos that "really we were just setting them up for failure later! Great Soviet brains never caught by surprise!" When in reality the Soviets stood a lot to gain by a friendly continental power and by the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact in general. They were surprised and scared at the onset of Barbarossa.

>>132044238
>>132044238
They were commies
they were controlled by the jews
the jews did WWII
fuck you
saged

>>132044238
not rolling with the punches of Poland and slav countries being dicks to germans and instead using their might to train hundreds of thousands of assassins to rid the entire world of jews

>>132058000

Which is what happens when you let ethnicities and perceived tiers of humanity dictate your foreign policy. At one point he legitimately thought the Dutch and British would help him or at least stay neutral because "muh Germanic blood" which is fucking retarded when everyone else on Earth is playing Realpolitik.

>>132057724
>You can believe that the jews did it and you can believe the bullshit conspiracy
THE JEWS INVENTED COMMUNISM.. KARL MARX WAS A FUCKING JEW ITS NOT A CONSPIRACY THEORY..
>hitler just didn't pragmatically understand the russian winter
wew lad and you insinuate that i'm in denial?

>>132057764
Bolsheviks destroyed 20 000 churches in Russia, Forbid religion and were atheist state. They wanted whole world to be communist and degenerate

>>132058372

Really? Please tell me more, my country was never occupied by communists... nor nazis.

>>132044238
Anyone who says 'don't attack soviets' is an idiot.

1. Press harder at dunkirk, attempt to destroy BEF instead of negotiating with jews in britain
2. mobilize the country starting in 1940/41, not 43. Use civilian motor vehicle industry to replace the horse drawn logistics of the wehrmacht
3. don't declare war on USA when Japan does, either not declare at all or wait until Russia dies
4. increase funding to jet engine research and experiments with funding cut from ballistic missile research and experiments
5. Save the jewish question for after the war, no point in wasting manpower and logistics rounding up degenerates during the war. Their slave labor was shoddy anyway, and the logistics and manpower that went towards it was better spent elsewhere.

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>>132054098

I think all of you just talk shit. Germans had only one chance to win(at least the on ''the east front'')- dont fucking treat russians like colonial niggers. After first few months of the war germans had millions of captured russians and a lot of russian territory. Why dont they let us to make Russian Democratic Government on this territory whitout kolkhozes and other commie-shit?
If Germans were not greedy bastards which wanted to take our lands for their colonial policy, they even dont needed to fight themself after theese first months. Russian people broke chains of kykes red slavery by themselves. The most lucky thing for Stalin and other red killers- that they managed to turn this war like "national", like "war for freedom". And that was real and main fail of Hitler. Now greedy nazi bastards should burn in the Hell for their stupidity

>>132044238
Easy, invaded poland and kept it all without sharing with russia, turning him into a very big opponent and forcing germany into a 2 front war-position.

If it was just one nation at a time, they would have won and if you ever had your nose in a history book you'd know.

>>132058372
Communism destroyed the proud russian nation to such a degree that they are still recovering from the the near fatal blow that communism bestowed upon them. One of my favourite parts only to highlight where that thing goes was where they declared the farmers burgoise.. you're a farmer.. dirty hands hard work almost most hours a day.. you're a filthy person trying to take things away from the people.. oo..ookay.. then the all powerful communist state now ruled.. put people in charge that weren't that terrible burgoise.. couldn't farm. BIG FUCKING SURPRISE.. but the great news was.. that millions of people now starved to death.. it's amazing to have a revolution, it's not fucking easy..

>>132058343

You might be in denial. I think you let the jew meme get too far into your head.

>>132058774
>You might be in denial. I think you let the jew meme get too far into your head. HAHAHA..

>>132044238
In the battle of Berlin bomb the air force with half of the German air force and have the other bombing important cities like London also don't fuck with Russia in the winter

>>132058449

Number 1 was already done. There was no "stop" order. That is a myth.

They also did take trucks from civilians, the issue is that there weren't enough. Not to mention that again, for every truck you take you need spare parts and technicians for it.

Tech wouldn't have helped. Tech doesn't really win wars. It helps, but even if the US didn't develop radar based fire control they would've beaten the Japs.

>>132058419
Your people are so much of subhumans they don't even need foreigners to fuck them up.

>>132044839
>kill british and french soldiers as opposed to expecting them to join you for no good reason
wut
explain pls

>>132058903

Are you alright m8?

dont fucking bait russia

>>132059046

There is a myth that Hitler let the soldiers escape at Dunkirk even though the French 3rd Army Group fought to the death to allow the evacuation to happen.

Made better friends with america.

There was a lot of Nazi support in U.S.A at the time. It wouldnt have been hard to do

Even though the Japs got humiliated at Khalkin Gol, they should have declared war on the USSR solely to be a thorn in their side and hold up troops and supplies. I forgot exactly who it was but in some dude's memoir he wrote that top Russian generals and party members turned white at the thought of a Japanese invasion.

>>132059394

Yes it would have. Lindbergh and Ford were pretty much the only big ones that supported Hitler, and they became total outcasts when Hitler started the war.

>>132059515

It's bullshit. See my posts above. With 80% of the IJA fighting China the 3 million (at least) Soviets would've stomped them pretty bad, especially considering that the Japs had no oil for their ground forces.

>>132059095
yes i'm fine very well you stupid sayanim. Why are you so concerned with my safety all of a sudden? Do you plot something nefarious to me.. we are the flood, it's the plasmic state of the universe that the gods refer to as the holy spirit. 3 parts of the holy... the man, the creator of worlds making man in its image and the holy spirit. Through the holy spirit they are one. you can't change what is done but when you do wrong someone always notices. keep larping pretending that your infantile transgressions will make it to the end of your telomeres. And that if you kiss enough ass that you will continue.. keep believing in standing against truth will give you something.. You just keep that in mind..

>>132044549
Should've*

>>132059664

I'm gonna take that as a solid "no."

>>132059654

well you're wrong because the russians said it themselves and im pretty sure they were more aware of their capabilities than you, no offense

>>132044238
Annex austria and then wait. Just wait. Wait until the ruskies have built up their forces. Wait until the ruskies start to expand the communist revolution. Wait until they attack Poland and the UK and France ask for allies. Wait until both UK and France exhausted their power to hold back russia. Wait until the USA has to come in to help them. Then make an alliance with the US (not the UK or France, only the US) and fight back the russians. Take all the land taken by russia and keep it for "demarxification". Laugh at the French and Brits as your economy surges with ridiculous amounts of cheap resources and laborforce while they have to pay off their debts to the US. Swallow up more and more nations for "demarxification" purposes and continue laughing at the French and British. And just keep laughing. Always laughing. And when they start complaining and the whole world starts ganging up on you, you drop the shitload of nukes you have been bunkering the whole time on all their shit AND THEN YOU WILL BURN YOUR SMILING FACE INTO THEIR RETINAS!

>>132053588
>every jew ever is a conspirator
>one look at the """""""""""""""news""""""""""""""""""" media
>one look a the EU
>one look at banks
>one look at ceos
>one look at your average jew
in their given field yes, either the head or the hand of some (((other)))

>>132059812

Show me proof.

>>132059889

google it

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He should have gassed the jews

>>132059770
Why do you take that as a no, i'm livid and hating the jews and have every reason to be doing so.. to be a jew is someone who is never sorry for their transgressions. We have better motivations than you that is why your god rejected you and you sold your birthright.. your fallen state you keep reminding him of.

>>132059962

>Make my arguments for you

No

>>132044238
>How could Germany have won
Quite possible, but they underestimated the influence of (((their))) opponents.
>attacking Europe first.
Attacking Europe, dude are you high, they were themself a part of Europe. They attacked poland and the reasons are complex mainly it had to do with Versallies and the polish goverment wanting to have a war in order to get the support of britian and France to beat Germany.
>If their end game was to take oer the world, they should have started with easy targets like Africa, South America and Asia. America and Europe would have sat on the sidelines - maybe even joined in.
No that's a stupid meme. You need to learn the basics.
>Bear in mind I think Germany was batshit insane and it's good they lost
No, if you would have a decent understanding of history you would understand, what they wanted and why they wanted it.

>>132044238
Operation Barbarossa. It should have been postponed until after the winter and they should have gone to Moscow. However there's no guarantee this would ensure a victory.

Ideally they should have formalised the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact into an official alliance and with their combined strength destroyed the Americans (maybe Hitler could have told Stalin it was a joint effort against capitalism or something), who would be the main obstruction to the Nazis regardless of the scenario. Once America had been taken care of Britain would be easy to defeat. This would mark the end of the war leaving Europe dominated by the ideologically-similar Third Reich, Fascist Italy and Francoist Spain, with the Soviet Union being left isolated (Asia would be under the sphere of Japan).

This may result in a cold war scenario between the Third Reich and the Soviet Union. The superiority of national socialism would mean they would eventually emerge the victors. Alternatively, perhaps the Soviet Union, at the bequest of the Nazis, could go down a NazBol route (compromise between NatSoc and communism). Either way the Soviet Union would always be weaker in terms of its economy and would probably dissolve a few decades after the war had finished, leaving it ripe for conquest by the dominant European power - Nazi Germany - and perhaps the eastern regions to Japan.

>>132060012

Well I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.

Has it occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, instead of being Jewish I could be, you know, well read?

>>132060080
Likley world war two was löst because of the greece adventure. If it wasn't for that moscow would have likly fallen and the push to the Ural until winter would have been possible

>>132060193
>you
>well read
you're just spouting jewish propaganda like every kike does

>>132060078

>Poland wanted a war

Good meme

>hey Czechoslovakia, gib sudetenland, is basically German anyway
>o-okay, and then peace?
>yes
>hey Czechoslovakia, stop existing, you were never a real country anyway
>hey Yugoslavia give up the northern bit of your country, its German anyway,
>o-okay, then peace?
>yes
>Yugoslavia, stop existing, you were never a real country anyway
>hey Poland, give up Danzig, it's German anyway
>no, fuck you, we saw Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia
>WOW POLAND YOU FUCKING ASSHOLES, TIME FOR GAS!

>>132060437

Oh man, this time an Estonian. Tell me where I am wrong? (hard mode: use facts)

>>132060193
jesus wasn't a jew he was a harbinger of jacob which is covenant of spirit and told the jews to to to hell.. In truth he is a mixed species he is the new adam blueprint and you are all to be either erased and changed or to be through death undergo what he did and be set into a new bodily instrument under his blueprint. Jesus was not a man.. You try to humilate me. Take a look in your mirror.

>>132061020

Oh man. I've pissed you off so much that you actually refuse to believe I'm anything other than a Jew. This is top tier debate.

>>132044238
>Where did Germany go wrong in WWII
They invaded their neighbors.

>>132061225
I didn't call you jew i called you sayanim.

>>132060894
Sudetenland was always German...
>hey Yugoslavia give up the northern bit of your country, its German anyway,
>o-okay, then peace
>what is K&K monarchy
>give up Danzig
Danzig is German the name already gives it away.
"Poland wants war with Germany and Germany will not be able to avoid it even if she wants to." (Polish Marshal Rydz-Smigly as reported in the Daily Mail, August 6th, 1939)"

>>132061225
And you didn't piss me off, rather you bore me with your contrite verbiage. But go ahead and talk some more if that makes you more comfortable.

>>132060894
Why would Hitler want a country full of slavs?

>>132044238
The moment they attacked Russia , They were fucked.

They spread there army to thin. Hitler's ambition exceeded what his army could do.

>>132051157
This is pre-industrial SU, we are talking 1941 here. Also, eventhough they were not to be joked with, not all those 3 million men were the "sky snow batallion" types. Moreover, all the godtier SU generals were in the west.

>>132061795

They had much better equipment than the western divisions. They were professional soldiers, not conscripts. I've addressed this already earlier in the thread.

>>132061574

Spewing all caps bullshit is being bored? Hmm.

>>132061709
Wrong it was the combination of Mussolini opening a new front in the south resulting in the operatinon being delayed and the unexpacted heavy support of the UdSSR by the US.

>>132062086
yes i'm bored with you sayanim. Spewing caps you mean when i said how much the russian communist after the war was over destroyed germanic stock? Are you flailing now? You were such a strong hand wielding a little while ago.

>>132062086
Are you feeling ok my "friend"?

>>132062395
>>132062575

Man. This is some top tier assmad.

The issue here is that literally the only thing you guys have to argue against facts is "but jews" which is pretty dumb.

I mean, how many times do you expect me to tell you you're wrong?

>>132055792
>They weren't mass producing tanks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-26#Series_production

>>132062903

>243 medium combat vehicles produced in 1940
>556% increase the next year

Seems to me they weren't operating on even a fraction of their capabilities. If I'm plotting to take over Europe I'm probably going to make more than 243 tanks.
(Unless I'm Hitler)

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>>132044238

Germany could have won if they:

1) Took central Europe & not expand beyond that.

2) Didn't ally with Japan & declare war on the US.

3) Spent less time on experimental weapons during the war that were too grand & more time on practical weapons.

4) Not let the SS make deals with the Occult parts.

Archives: http://archive.4plebs.org/_/search/subject/knowledge%20bomb/username/anonymous5/tripcode/%21%219O2tecpDHQ6/

>>132062817
>top tier assmad
declared by yourself..
>defends jews
sayanim. as i've already told you.
Explain this away https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cScTY4EoFo
also do you like realizing that the reason the people YOU DEFEND were braided was because jews are rampant sexual perverts?
>looks you deeply in the eye
We should talk..
I have no fear of death but you should have many fear of death.. When i go i will come back as one of the ones who will crush you for good. It's the circle of life it's the wheel of fortune hahaha

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The real question is- how did the allies actually almost lose?

>>132063196
you're such a deceptive anon, i've read you up, just stop larping and lay off the booze... People are distracted and confused enough as it is.

>>132063104
they were starting to produce new generations of tanks, which takes time to do efficently

just look at the t26 production jump from 1931 to 1932

>>132063393

All my Information is Truth, I don't Larp.

>>132060959
here you claim
>>132054818
>By saying that there doesn't appear to be proof that the Soviets planned to invade Europe I am just saying that there doesn't appear to be evidence that the Soviets planned to invade Europe.
but they invaded Finland way before they started shit Germany, which raised major concerns all over Europe thus Nazis and Hitler came to conclusion that Soviets are going to start advancing and taking over Europe, if they don't attack and crush them first, also Soviets were steadily supplied with supplies from America

>>132063624

I'm not saying that they were producing no tanks, what I'm saying is that Soviet industry was hardly on a war footing in 1940 or the beginning of 41. This is pretty objective.

>>132063795

That was the reason for the Anti-Comintern Pact, not the reason for taking over Europe.

>>132063919
>That was the reason for the Anti-Comintern Pact, not the reason for taking over Europe.
doesn't matter everyone else saw that as a unjustified invasion

>>132064067

>Stalin invades Finland
>Germany forms the Anti-Comintern to prevent Soviet aggression
>Germany then signs a treaty with Russia
>Germany then invades members of the Anti-Comintern
>All to protect Europe from Russia

Yeah makes sense.

>>132064381
>Germany forms the Anti-Comintern to prevent Soviet aggression
>Germany then signs a treaty with Russia
>Germany then invades members of the Anti-Comintern
>All to protect Europe from Russia
the treaty was a farce probably
both of them didn't abide by that treaty

>>132044238
Shoulda coulda woulda. Fuck that socialist country.

>>132064615

They literally did. Germany let them have the Baltics and part of Poland while there was a technology and intelligence transfer.

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>>132044238
they went wrong in not actually holocausting jews

>>132064825
I don't believe that treaty because in Mein Kampf Hitler described communism nothing but a false sob story to genocide Russian christians, he had plans to crush communist way before he came into power, Soviets also saw aggression of german military and started advancing as soon as Germany invaded Poland
i think treaty was bunch of bullshit to lure out Soviets into open battlefield

>>132065330

Well it didn't help. Also, I think looking at history and what actually happened is more accurate than Hitler's book.

>>132065562
treaty was means to make European people decide who they will stand with, either it was Nazis or Communist, in the end Eastern Europeans couldn't decide who to fight with and all kinds of mindfuckery ensued

>>132065923

But that's wrong. That's what the Anti-Comintern Pact was supposed to do, and Hitler either invaded the members of the pact or he allowed them to be annexed by Russia in the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

It did LITERALLY THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what you proposed.

>create the ACP
>Baltics join
>Poland contemplates joining
>invade Poland
>sign a treaty allowing Russia to take the Baltics
>Romania and Hungary join the ACP

>>132055792
No, they weren't mass producing tanks.
>>132063919
>'m not saying that they were producing no tanks

moving the goalpost

>'m not saying that they were producing no tanks, what I'm saying is that Soviet industry was hardly on a war footing in 1940 or the beginning of 41. This is pretty objective.

Yes it is, but is was as close to that as practical in peace time.

The SU wasnt going to invade in 1941.
i mean they were just introducing new equipment , reorganizing their military after the finland disaster, focusing on china and japan

But after those things were done and europe been crippled by the on going war, then the SU would have expanded east no doubt! not even tankist doubt that expanding communism across europe was stalins plan

>>132066303

I'm not moving the goalposts. I said they were not mass producing tanks. You used them producing tanks as evidence of them mass producing tanks. I clarified, they WERE producing tanks. They were not MASS producing tanks, as seen in the fact that in between June and December of 41 they produced almost 5 times the number if tanks they made in all of 40.

>>132066293
>Poland contemplates joining
No it didn't. They withdrew their diplomat from any more talks and then Britain and U.S followed suit.

Withdrawing diplomats and ending talks is a prelude to initiating war. Similar to how Germany was the one to withdraw diplomats and from talks with the Soviets in preparing of invading it.

http://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1498958305354.webm

>>132066293
in the end Soviets were also aggressors and decided to invade baltics, were you saying that Soviets didn't want to invade?
Soviets shouldn't care about what kind of land distribution Hitler proposed if they weren't planning on invading

>>132044238

Trying to forge friendlier relations with the Soviets, to say the least. I know everyone on this board will just say "but muh commies". Let's be real though, the USSR turned out to be more white and in touch with its heritage in the end than the ((((((((Allies))))))) Not to mention that if Hitler had focused all of his power and focus on the West he would have obliterated the Western Front, and with the Soviets and Japanese backing him, he would have been unstoppable. The European left could have fucked off to the USSR until it collapsed, Hitler would annex Eastern Europe, and Earth would still be 40% white.

>>132066738

They did before Germany demanded Danzig. Europe's politics were extremely fluid at the time.

>>132066863

The Soviets were aggressive, oppressive, communists shits. Literally worse than Hitler, but that doesn't change the fact that the Soviet army was not on a war footing and there isn't any real evidence pointing to them declaring war on Germany. Let me clarify that as well, it is possible that the Soviets would've invaded later, but there is no evidence that the Soviets planned on invading at the time Barbarossa was launched.

Let me clarify another thing, I really fucking hate commies, having family that used to live in a Communist country and growing up listening to horror stories makes me hate the Soviets especially, but that's doesn't change facts.

>>132066648
the SU produdes more than 20k thanks in the 1930 not including armored cars , which is more than he rest of the world combined! They had comparable equipment production in other areas, just because they werent producing a lot of tanks 1940 (because they introduced a new generation of tanks) doesnt mean they werent mass producing weaponry

>>132067268
anti semitism and racism were illegal in the ussr first. The only reason immigration of foreigners didn't occur was because the ussr couldn't even afford to feed itself, let alone host a bunch of 80 iq foreigners.

>>132067268

How? Is brutally oppressing everyone you "liberate" a "white" thing to do?

The US has done some shit, but they spent literally trillions of today's money in trying to rebuild Europe, as well as using the entire airlift capacity of the USAF to sustain West Berlin for over a year. Say what you want but the US tried their damned hardest to help Europe post war.

>>132044238
Germany lost because he had Italy and Japan, two retards.

>>132063729
atleast misguided then i've checked you out in the catalogue. Do your thing. don't want to argue with you.

>>132067689

In theory, yes. But they weren't the average SJW nu-left you see dominating our nations today. They were genuinely anti-capitalist to the core, until of course reality bit them, but that's neither here nor there. Hitler and Stalin had more in common than Hitler did with Churchill and (((friends))) They were both highly patriotic and both introduced pro-natal programs that boosted the birth rates of both Germany and Russia. Stalin was communist and Hitler natsoc, but they were both anti-capitalist, and perhaps could have created an alliance. There was this thing called the non-aggression pact, you know. And as I said, if Hitler had won, the Third Reich would be thriving today and the USSR would have already withered away, as is the natural end of communism.

>>132067680

It wasn't just that they were just retooling, most factories had switched back over to consumer goods production. This is evidenced by the sheer number of rifles the Soviets DIDN'T have. When some infantry divisions are getting 2 rifles for 3 men, you are striggling with production.

>>132068131
* archive obviously.

>>132044839
1. Soviets broke the pact first and was raising troops not defensibly but aggressively to take over a weakened Europe.
2. They had no choice, either stay in debt due to the Versailles treaty and starve, or declare freedom. The French were already occupying Germany and harassing the Germans at the time.
3.Can't argue there, show a man mercy and get stabbed in the back.
4. HELLO there was Italy! Russia was an ally then well, Hitler put his faith in the wrong people.
5.Hittler never did, it was Japan and since they were allies, it just drug Germany and Italy into the war against the USA. Japan was under tight sanctions due to the USA as the USA declared them to be an "Aggressor Nation." Sorta like what we are doing to Russia today. Coincidence? Nope.
6.His vision was on Germany, he did a fine job. Jews fled to Russia after not being welcomed into Germany and we got the Aggressive Soviet Union. Hitler didn't like killing civilians.
7. Hitler didn't like attacking civilians but the UK started to bomb everything and worst part was that they attacked mostly at night and bombed anything that looked like a light or town. Civilians while sleeping was fired bombed by the UK. Hitler had no choice but to attack in kind against the UK.
8. Trade ships were carring ammunition to the UK from the USA. This is well known though Lend-Lease agreement that the USA was supplying in the billions to keep the UK from toppling over.
9. Yeah, Both Japan and German should of tried to hold back the war against Russia and USA till the UK and France Fell completely. However both USA and Russia were becoming itchy for war. Russia wanted to sweep the area and claim more land, USA wanted to go all out. Japan was sanctioned and heavily paying for it, and Germany was already at war on one front and didn't want to get hit in the rear. But Hitler was an idiot like Napoleon, NEVER ATTACK SLAVS IN WINTER.

>>132068182

Nazi Germany would've collapsed. You can't sustain an economy on conquest.

>>132068182
Stalin wasn't patriotic he wasn't even Slavic and Russian was his second language. He was a foreigner who suppressed nationalism whenever he could. Labeling Nationalism as a dangerous anti-revolutionary act. This came into full fruition with the holodomor in which Ukraines rebelliousness was blamed on nationalism and had to be crushed.

>>132067619
>Soviet army was not on a war footing and there isn't any real evidence pointing to them declaring war on Germany
there definitely was initiative in removing Germany's presence in Europe since some Russians ever saw them as liberators from oppressive communist regime, Stalin even ordered Soviet army to modernize itself after loss in Finland, how is that not an act of developing invasion strategy?

>>132068373
the west collapsed in the 1960's when it gave in and rewrote their immigration laws to include any type of foreigner just to meet population growth quotas. Pretty sure Germany would've lasted way longer than that had it won.

>>132067850

Well yes, historically. We didn't accumulate the power we have by just being a bunch of libertarian pedophiles. We actually had to conquer shit. Also fuck America and it's neocon bullshit. "Denazification" didn't exactly help Europe in the end, did it?

>>132068405

Soviet patriotism is still patriotism.

>>132068373
>Nazi Germany would've collapsed. You can't sustain an economy on conquest.
Look at this beauty.. nazi germany was great before the war not by invading shit.. Even anti nazi's recognize that germany before the war was amazing. How did they achieve it, by invading a parallel reality?

>>132044238
opening that second front against Russia and doing it too close to winter - idiots.

>>132068312

There is so much wrong in this post. So much wrong.

The Luftlande bombed South London, and in return the RAF launched a raid to hit urban centers. Hitler then panicked and allowed more strikes on civilian centers, this is what caused the RAF to get a hateboner for bombing German cities. You act like the Germans never terrorbombed anyone even though that was the entire purpose of the V2 program.

Also, that bullshit about Slavs in winter is retarded because Barbarossa was in June.

The rest I've already addressed in this thread.

>>132068508

We must have different definitions of collapsed.

>>132068524

Ask people that lived in West Berlin during the Airlift. The US was definitely the lesser of two evils.

>>132068771

Their economy was unsustainable. Spending 40% of your GDP on the military is unsustainable. Maybe they could've retooled and created something that worked, but the prewar model was sustainable only if they were going to declare war.

>>132054818
Not just Europe, the Soviets had a knack for invading and... not leaving. UK and USSR invaded Iran and the Soviets just stayed well after the war was over... despite the fact that Iran never joined the Axis formally. Trading and being on good terms does not justify invasion, but they did so in order to secure Iranian resources.

socialism

>>132069099
Yeah I'm not a civic nationalist. The nation to me is directly tied to the race, the nation itself is meaningless otherwise.

The word " Germany " placed on some land can exist in 10 thousand years but be completely inhabited by muslims and other shit and to a civic nationalist this means Germany survived 10 thousand years.

>>132069157

No, they invaded to secure another set of ports for Lend-Lease material.

The Soviets stayed because they are fucking assholes. I've never debated this. The Soviets are communist, authoritarian shits.

Why is saying "the Soviets probably weren't preparing to invade" so fucking controversial?

>>132060894
Territorial claims given to them after WW1, yes. Poland was taken off the map and hadn't been a nation for around 120 years. Then the Treaty revived them, with a bunch of land. Imagine if the US conquered Mexico and stayed that way for 100 years. Then the UN forced Mexico back into existence, this time with Texas and most of the South. US would seek some form of territorial war. Same thing has been going on with that land for centuries.

>>132069099
>Their economy was unsustainable. Spending 40% of your GDP on the military is unsustainable. Maybe they could've retooled and created something that worked, but the prewar model was sustainable only if they were going to declare war.
Not at all.. they were gearing up to defend europe as hitler said many times not because it was to be necessary but because it needed that reinforcement..
Your argument seems to be that hyperprioritizing military somehow hurts the overall economy? it was done over a short period.. germany is one of the socalled great 5 of civilization. Germany is easily self reliant. by your assumption germany could never have an army to defend itself because it would hurt the economy.. what? are you even listening to yourself. Germany at that time, easily can be self reliant in every single aspect of anything.

>>132069332

Well if Germany maintains the same basic culture and constitution then yeah.

Obviously it won't but still. Also, I'm not a civic nationalist either, but saying the West collapsed in the 60s is completely false. The correct phrasing would be "the 60s could lead to the collapse of the West."

>>132069349
Then that shows the expansionist interventionism, not even justified by the fact that Iran was a member of the Axis.
But the Soviets were planning to invade. The fact that they conspired with the Germans to partition the newly formed Poland is evidence of their desire for parts of Eastern Europe

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>>132044238
>Let's say WWII was a do over.
>How could Germany have won?
a walking talking definition of psychopath hell bent on conquering the world arms you, provides you with supplies and training for your soldiers all the while gently pushing you towards Great War round 2 but coincidentally he himself keeps good relations with everyone claiming neutrality - and you just accept this all without second guessing until it's too late

there was no way for germany to win the game was rigged from the start and hitler walked right into the trap that should have been obvious - especially to a marxist like him

>>132044238
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oENNXfenNH0

>>132069445

And the Mexicans that still identified as Mexican would defend their territory.

>>132069508

Holy strawman. Massive public spending always immediately boosts the economy while then leading to a steady decline. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan. The US spent $4 trillion which made certain private sectors TONS of money. Then we have a slow burn until the bubble popped in 2008. The economy still hasn't recovered because we are STILL spending hundreds of billions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

>>132069581
>>132069349
Not to mention the issue with expansionist in Asia. Was the US just going to sit around as the Japs got closer and closer to their territory? The embargo was only rational given the circumstances. The same goes for Russia. Imagine if your neighbour claimed lebensraum, one would be wise to judge a preemptive attack.
>>132069888
I find it funny that you are calling him out for a strawman, yet your refutation of my point is one that I never made. I never said ethnic Poles would not fight to defend their land. I'm saying that ethnic Germans will, too.

>>132069821
the nazis relied on a technolgical edge they never got but thought they could achieve.. it's as simple as that.. they could not unlock the lantean technology at antarctica.. the swaztika was part of how it operated as was the black sun. Had they unlocked it they would've dominated everyone. still is locked to this day.

>>132069581

Again, I'm not disagreeing that at some point in the future they might have invaded, but evidence is extremely scarce that they were planning to invade and there was still no timetable on any operations in Eastern Europe. There frankly isn't any evidence that it was even at the earliest stages of planning other than maybe Stalin wanted to invade Europe some day.

Also, yeah, Iran wasn't the only one, the Allies invaded Iceland for the same reason.

>>132053961
Hooray for this poster.

Not even the most bluepilled of normies believes that Germany wanted to take over the over world, for God's sake.

>1 post by this ID
O ok, paid shill.

>>132070020
The ones who created earth are trillions of years old capable of creating stars.. and solar systems as a result since in between galaxies and in between solar systems is the void. Is why angels are referred to as stars allegorically in religion.

There's an outpost of theirs in antarctica (atlantis) covered in the frost after a massive cataclysm in the past. They can't unlock it. Hitler thought he could. A geolocation at the pole facilitates a number of things with regards to skywatching.

He should have used Russia as a way to scare the Allies into giving him power, claiming that Germany could be invaded by communists.

We have this thread every couple of days. Mods should start banning

>>132070008

Yeah, that's fine. I'm not arguing that the war was wrong, I'm just explaining why the Poles would fight.

The only guys I really fucking hate are the communists (which is funny because so many people have accused me of being a Jew and literal mossad and defending them). I'm am doing my best to provide facts from an objective view. I've studied this a lot and I'm trying to provide insight.

Danzig was mostly ethnically German, but Poland was obviously ethnically Polish and did not want to hand ant land over, especially with how Germany had "liberated" the Sudetenland (and later the rest of Czechoslovakia) and Istria (and later the rest of Yugoslavia)

>>132070115
>There frankly isn't any evidence that it was even at the earliest stages of planning other than maybe Stalin wanted to invade Europe some day.
What? But that's the entire assertion. That they weren't going to sit idly by. The whole point is that the war with Germany was inevitable given their ideological differences. It's the same reason why, when the alliance between the Germans and the Japs was being amended to include a defensive pact, the topic of US being dragged into the war was also discussed as a possibility. It was to be expected.
I'd also be pressed to find some evidence for a sneak attack preparation. How does one claim that and prove it? Soviets did have claims on Eastern Europe ever since the end of WW1, anyways. It is to be expected to observe Soviet imperialism after the war, which is exactly what happened. It's not like they would just wait while Germans were being warred. The whole attack they launched was a preemptive strike so that they could take the Soviets out entirely in order to avoid any possible retaliation. Obviously they had good reasons for the attack, if they knew the Soviets were like, say, Mongolia and wouldn't do anything/had no horse in the race, they'd leave them alone. But a fellow superpower who shares borders and shares a shoddy alliance... that's not bound to last. The Germans only realized the futility of the alliance.

>>132070115
>1939:
>There frankly isn't any evidence that it was even at the earliest stages of planning other than maybe Hitler wanted to invade Russia some day.

lul

>>132069572
the 60's was the collapse of the west in any ethnic nationalist measure. This isn't about culture or constitution. Those things should change over time. All ideas of civilization serve the race- never the other way around. Culture, Economics, Politics, Nation. They all serve this imperative. And they must be adaptable in order to ensure they always do serve.
It is culture that adapts to ensure the existence of the race- not the race adapting to ensure the existence of culture. In this National Socialism seeks a return to this most basic common sense.

>>132070509

You need to understand that pretty much everyone on Earth believed the Soviets to be a joke, especially after the Winter War. They did not cement themselves as anything close to a world power until after the war. If go as far to say the Soviet Union would've stayed an undeveloped backwater if the war hadn't happened.

>>132070600

You misunderstand, there is no evidence. There is no proof, you cannot look at a single piece of paper or talk to a single Soviet official and see or hear "we planned on invading Europe."

>>132070714

Just different definitions of collapsed.

>>132044549
stalin was planning to attack germany anyway
if you know your shit you obviously would know stalin was ready to fuck up germanys shit right from the get-go

>>132070506
Yeah, lebensraum was about ethnic unification. And it would not be fair to claim that the 'impartial parties' were democratic and unbiased given the fact that, in light of the Silesian Uprisings, the plebiscite that called to determine whether or not Upper Silesia would be German or Polish was given to the Poles: even though about 300,000 more votes were cast for Germany. A big issue was German people being under the wrong flag. I don't think the Germans wanted to bring Poles into their empire. The subsequent outbreak and territorial wars was not a result of lebensraum, but the war (to secure resources and territory). Kind of like how Soviets didn't really hate Iranians, just because it was advantageous.
>>132070723
But the Soviets won the Winter War.
>>132070845
That's the thing, you'd be hard-pressed to find a piece of paper overtly stating "we should totally attack Germany". It would be a conspiracy, you can't prove it. To get the best answer, you'd have to ask the Germans at the time. We may never know what their justification was, I think that they arrived at the decision in order to take out any possibility of a Soviet attack in the future, which you agreed to here: >>132070115
"There frankly isn't any evidence that it was even at the earliest stages of planning other than maybe Stalin wanted to invade Europe some day."
They wanted to have that "some day" never arrive.

>>132070723
>You need to understand that pretty much everyone on Earth believed the Soviets to be a joke, especially after the Winter War.
What he is talking about is the untold story of how the finns halted the ENTIRE red army from invading finland.. with no help coming, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR2FqMUVZzc and you might realize why the finns have an afinity of hating on the swedes, they were right next door and did nothing. Put a finn and a swede next to eachother and watch the fireworks.

>>132048629
>sports Nazi flag but doesn't know about the Icebreaker theory

>>132049794
>suggesting a poorly done youtube video as a source

Take me back to the days before /pol/ Harbor.

>>132071052
Yeah, I'm just googling it a bit now and Zhukov did suggest an invasion, apparently. It doesn't seem very becoming of an ally to pass that around. Would the US suggest an invasion of Canada if they had partitioned Mexico, for example? It seems like the issue was hovering around; Germans just took advantage of it. I don't think the Soviets took it seriously and were prepared, but the idea was floating around.

>>132044238
>take over the world

Someone's still shaking off their kike propaganda I see.

But in reality, it would be a gamble, but they should have let their success speak for itself and go no further than the sudetenland until they could secure alliances with western Europe. It was a turbulent time, and there were Nazi-esque movements in many western European and North American countries that could have taken hold if the stigma of war mongering hadn't been attached once they invaded Poland.

>>132071052

I think we agree in theory on most points. What I take issue with is people try to apply what knowledge they have retrospectively. There wasn't some cold war between Germany and the Soviets. Did Germany think the Soviets would invade inevitably? Probably, but the Soviets had never put pen to paper to draft a plan.

As far as the Winter War goes? The Soviets lost magnitudes more troops than the Finns and were forced to accept the pre war terms even though they planned on taking all of Finland.

Finnish ski troops operating with some captured rifles and reindeer hauling small mortars created "mottis" which was when they destroyed the front and end assets of a column and then literally starve the Soviets to death. Dozens of all troopers immobilized and destroyed entire DIVISIONS. The winter war was anything but a Soviet victory.

>>132071775
>I think we agree in theory on most points. What I take issue with is people try to apply what knowledge they have retrospectively. There wasn't some cold war between Germany and the Soviets. Did Germany think the Soviets would invade inevitably? Probably, but the Soviets had never put pen to paper to draft a plan.
stop being so simple minded, it was a war against communism and the european system. the communists tried to also take germany but failed but succeeded in russia sadly. There were many reasons for hitlers radicalism.. but before the war nobody can deny how great germany was.

>>132071775
>Did Germany think the Soviets would invade inevitably? Probably, but the Soviets had never put pen to paper to draft a plan.

I'd ask to extend the same standard of evidence required to fulfil the Soviet invasion to your claim about the Winter War. Again, it doesn't seem as if they were taking the option seriously, which is why I'd postulate that the Germans viewed it as preemptive given the fact that the idea had been floating around (because the alliance was not 'concrete', so to speak). How can you show that public opinion of the Soviets was in such low standards following the Winter War so as to warrant the claim that they were not taken seriously on the world stage?

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>>132044238
>(((If their end game was to take oer the world)))

Why do people always believe this about the axis nations who just wanted to defend themselves from communists.

>>132047418
I dont know which would be worse country to invade, Russia or the US?

>>132071980

It's more fluid than that.

>>132072097
Use the word fluid to describe something again and I'll report you.

>>132072020

Yeah that's a bit of an extrapolation on my part. That's mostly based on the American and British advisers and their reports and letters sent home. They did not think highly of the Red Army at all. Obviously the Reds proved us wrong and eventually were able to hold their own, but it took a hot minute and the Allies were not happy about it.

>>132072370

Your opinions should be a little more fluid.

>>132072647
>Yeah that's a bit of an extrapolation on my part. That's mostly based on the American and British advisers and their reports and letters sent home. They did not think highly of the Red Army at all. Obviously the Reds proved us wrong and eventually were able to hold their own, but it took a hot minute and the Allies were not happy about it.
That's the same mindset behind the claim that the Germans simply utilized the growing distrust between the two nations and launched a strike before what they thought the Soviets were going to. You mentioned above not to use retrospective judgement, which is something the Germans didn't know either.

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He should have taken over the Africa and the Middle east. Hitler should't of been sending so many people to kill Jews (Although it was a good idea) he could of killed so many more if he had just gotten more soldiers and supplies. He was just to late to have the money to do it though. He should of built more ME262's as actual fighters instead of bombers. He would of had near total air domination. Us was still using the P51D.


Anyways Germany could have won, but Hitler was too late on most of his efforts.

1. Don't bother with Italians. Few months meddling in balkans b4 barbarossa fucked things up.
2. Go directly to Moscow. Instead of Leningrad, Moscow, and Stalingrad, just to Leningrad and Moscow. If Hitler had captured Moscow, he would have won.
3. Instead of siegeing leningrad, just assault that piece of shit. too much time wasted there.
4. Don't give fuck about japs. they had shitty army anyway, and was unwilling to cooperate with nazis in siberia anyway. That way you avoid DOW on us.
5. Don't DOW on US.
6. Should have gotten Dunkirk, and peaceout UK.

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>>132044238
Blame this madman.

1. Don't ally Japan
2. Go through with Plan Z

>>132072978

Oh I'm aware, I'm not saying the invasion didn't make sense, in fact the invasion was almost perfectly timed. The real issue wasn't the fighting force or ability, as stayed above the entire issue with the invasion was the fact that the top German logisticians warned them that they COULD NOT sustain combat operations for more than 12 weeks at a maximum and the general staff came back and decided that they'd just force Russia to capitulate in 11.

Politically and militarily it made sense, total sense, and the intelligence about Russian readiness and troop masses were spot on, but the logistics and the fact that they trusted the untested and underequipped Romanians and Hungarians with 1/3 of their total frontage instead of splitting them up and using them as auxiliaries were mistakes. They knew the Hungarian and Romanian militaries were underorepared but they trusted them with key actions anyway.

I just dislike the "well Russia was going to invade anyway" narrative. That's what I'm getting at. If I were Hitler I probably would've invades as well, especially based in the massive successes seen earlier in the war.

The fact of the matter is that Germany had been working for 20 years to perfect sharp, short wars and win them quickly, and they were very good at that, obviously. They were just in way over their heads. Americans specifically are autistic about logistics which is what makes the Ostfront so maddening. When you are me and you are taught to wage wars with supplies and numbers and see the horseshit that Germany pulled basically the entire war, you go a little crazy.

But yeah, that's just like, my opinion, maaan.

>>132073320
the jews are masters of stealing, all of Einsteins work was stolen from actual scientists

>>132073263
>>132073610

Made no fucking difference the US would have opened their arms to escaping (((scientists))) and (((engineers))) and sided with them regardless.

Germany was fucked from the get go.

>>132073660
>The real issue wasn't the fighting force or ability, as stayed above the entire issue with the invasion was the fact that the top German logisticians warned them that they COULD NOT sustain combat operations for more than 12 weeks at a maximum and the general staff came back and decided that they'd just force Russia to capitulate in 11.
Perhaps that's the real issue for you, but I thought your conversation was about the sentiments towards the Soviet-German alliance and its shoddy future, not the specific of the subsequent invasion.
>Politically and militarily it made sense, total sense, and the intelligence about Russian readiness and troop masses were spot on, but the logistics and the fact that they trusted the untested and underequipped Romanians and Hungarians with 1/3 of their total frontage instead of splitting them up and using them as auxiliaries were mistakes. They knew the Hungarian and Romanian militaries were underorepared but they trusted them with key actions anyway.
Again, this doesn't seem like a gripe relevant to our discussion. Click on my ID and read what I responded to you in regards to. It is not concerned with the shortcomings of the invasion.
>I just dislike the "well Russia was going to invade anyway" narrative. That's what I'm getting at. If I were Hitler I probably would've invades as well, especially based in the massive successes seen earlier in the war.
This is what we are discussing. You seem to contradict yourself here: >>132070115
"There frankly isn't any evidence that it was even at the earliest stages of planning other than maybe Stalin wanted to invade Europe some day."
That's the entire point, that they were going to make a move "some day".
>When you are me and you are taught to wage wars with supplies and numbers and see the horseshit that Germany pulled basically the entire war, you go a little crazy.
I'm sure things could have been improved, to say the least. But I don't expect one nation to have that power.

>>132073320
Takes a jew to get an award for relativity when it's not even true.. einstein faggotty beliefs in supermassive black holes is completely blown away by plasma physics.. can replicate in small scale to larger scale the patterns of galaxies for instance.. the beauty of it is that it scales perfectly.. what you see in lab experiment is what you can get in larger scale. it's plasma and electricity and electromagnetics and the sun is hot ofcourse but a plasmic/electric engine rather than nuclear or whatever. And earth is like a battery at each pole. electricity creates the gravity. what einstein jewness do. "there's this big thing over there, it seems to attract other big things.. voila i'm a jew now give me my prize" WOW SMARTEST PERSON EVER. AND HE'S A JEW. WE GAVE HIM AN AWARD LOOK HOW AMAZING JEWS ARE.. JUST JEALOUX.

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UUUUUUUUUURRRAAAAAAAAA!!!!

>>132073934

Like I said in just trying to combat some myths about "le undeadable German Reich." One of those myths is that the Russians were somehow ready and prepared to invade, and that Barbarossa was some last ditch effort to squeeze in a surprise attack, when in reality the Soviets were totally caught with their pants down and their thumbs in their asses. You seem to understand it better than most. Barbarossa was extremely well calculated, and it was hardly this desperate assault against an overwhelming enemy that people want to paint it as. The Germans weren't the underdogs, both armies were shitty for different reasons, and the Soviets (with pretty much 100% of their beans, bandages, and bullets supplies by the US) were able to overcome their obstacles faster than the Germans, who were forced to rely on what they had already conquered.

>>132074009
The sun interacting with the poles creating aurora borealis.. we'll call it SOLAR WINDS instead of electromagnetics interacting with the poles creating gravity.. everyone knows the sun is like a nuclear engine n shiiet. ITS FUCKING EINSTEIN.. jews are chosen you fucking antisemite..

>>132074348
>Like I said in just trying to combat some myths about "le undeadable German Reich." One of those myths is that the Russians were somehow ready and prepared to invade, and that Barbarossa was some last ditch effort to squeeze in a surprise attack, when in reality the Soviets were totally caught with their pants down and their thumbs in their asses
Of course the Reich wasn't undefeatable. They were up against many other powers who could out-produce and preform them. I'm not a history buff but what I remember hearing is that the war was in Germany's favour despite undergoing shite conditions following the Great Depression and the Treaty. Then, the tide turned a little after the 1940's.
>The Germans weren't the underdogs, both armies were shitty for different reasons, and the Soviets (with pretty much 100% of their beans, bandages, and bullets supplies by the US) were able to overcome their obstacles faster than the Germans, who were forced to rely on what they had already conquered.
After ramping up the war effort, no. They obviously were powerful given the territory they conquered. But Germany on the last legs of the Weimar republic is not even comparable to the Reich. The point is to highlight the sudden revival in a short period of time. Mostly the unemployment figures and the war effort being ramped up. Gearing up for lebensraum, basically. Other than that, seems like every other metric for economic success was pretty standard/in-line with their population spread and other nations, like the UK and France.

>>132074930
couldn't be that the sun continues to charge the "battery" of earth no that can't be it.. jews are always right, they get great prizes funded by other jews.. how can non jews even compete.

>>132075179
I mean you have two poles and massive elctr.. i'm sorry heat discharges hammering each pole at their respective magnetosphere. It's a fucking mystery how that shit works.

>>132075383
almost as if everything seems to be governed by electricity except a jew had to get an award for leading you away from it.. It's all relative n shiiet.

>>132075556
>>132075383
>>132075179
Is the tall Scandinavian thing true? How tall are you? I only ask because it seems your train of thought is off the rails, so I can afford to ask the question.

>>132075026

I mean that's pretty basically right. The military revival created tons of jobs and suspending reparation payments saved a lot of money. It is extremely impressive what the military was able to do with such limited resources. The amount that they actually accomplished in the interwar period with extreme limits on what they could have and do is shocking, and I think especially shocked most of the Western world. There just happens to be a ton of people that buy into the mysticism, you know? What's it called.. esoteric Hitlerism? The fact is that they were just another country that did some incredible things, some bad things, and some incredibly bad things.

When you get as far into it as I have, you stop seeing the same lines that others do and just see armies, their organization, and their fests. That's what makes it EXTREMELY frustrating whenever someone claims I'm some jewish-soviet shill when that couldn't be farther from the truth.

Anyway, I'm done venting.

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>>132075614

>>132075762
>The military revival created tons of jobs and suspending reparation payments saved a lot of money. It is extremely impressive what the military was able to do with such limited resources. The amount that they actually accomplished in the interwar period with extreme limits on what they could have and do is shocking, and I think especially shocked most of the Western world.
Yeah, that's the point, not that they were unstoppable. The average lifespan of an empire is around 200 years.
>The fact is that they were just another country that did some incredible things, some bad things, and some incredibly bad things.
What bad things did the Reich do? The will of the ethnic nation is not fettered by any other group of people as they are not the ones dependent on the nation, but the migrants. There is no good or bad in war. Millions of women and children will die, that's war. The struggle for existence cannot be analyzed from a peacetime lens just as retrospective inspection of German/Soviet military policy cannot be accurately analyzed from our perspective. Back a nation into a corner and there is to be no justification for anything, and rightfully so. Human rights don't really exist anywhere but on paper.
>That's what makes it EXTREMELY frustrating whenever someone claims I'm some jewish-soviet shill when that couldn't be farther from the truth.
I'm all for accuracy of the argument. That's why I dismiss emotional claims like appealing to human rights. Soviets did what they perceived to be right during wartime. War has no rules. It's not like the Mongols said "you know, maybe don't siege this city, it is just 'bad'". Morals have no place and the victor is, more often than not, not the person who takes the moral high ground virtue-signalling his actions.
That's the same reason the nuke is justified. Because they did and can. Nobody cares if children died, that's better for the US because it forces Japanese surrender to avoid it. Sounds cruel, but that's war

>>132076191
bix nood mofuggah

>>132076263

As far as bad, it really comes down to the holocaust if you care about that. I mean there are some more subjective things like the partitioning of Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Yugoslavia, but pretty much everything during the war is some shade of grey.

>>132076527
The Holocaust in the East (by bullets) was justified by partisan activity. Like I said, the ethnic will of the nation is not to be fettered by dependents. If tomorrow the US decided to execute/exile all Mexicans, there would be nothing wrong with that. It is a white nation for white people, not indebted to the Mexicans.
As for the gassings and subsequent cremation, I'd ask of you to cite the rates required for the cremations in-question. Provide evidence that it is possible to cremate people in that timeframe. Or try and cite some excavation of the graves. The Holocaust is exaggeration inflated because Jews are the victims. The kulaks have the same gripes with collectivization, but that is war and Soviet policy, suck it up.
Like I said, appealing to human rights isn't useful because they don't exist. You have what you can defend, and when the governments that assist in the defence fall, you have nothing. Nobody owes you any protection.

>>132076281
anywho its the template for anti gravity systems it's earth itself. electromagnetcs on two poles Why those things can just stop on a dime and change direction and go straight up or wherever without the ones inside being splattered. Forming a gravity field within it.. and inside the gravity field of earth.. they zip up and down or can do such things violating the laws of aerodynamics is another part. Why they also have thought controlled or impulse controlled navigation. Stickjockeys can't even compete.
Why david adair story with a fiberoptic neural network like a brainstem, essentially you are in the craft and it links with the pilots mind. They found a big ass engine way back when, way before anyone had ever heard of fiberoptics, essentially it allows transmission not as electricity only but at speed of light using light as the encoding carrier. And the thing was the size of a schoolbus. just the engine. remarkable.. what kind of rock did they pry that thing from haha..

>>132044238
Here's the thing anons.

In the east, Germany only did so well at the start of operation barbarossa because Stalin literally believed Hitler would never break his pact and was even ordering Russians not to shoot back because he thought some of the initial attacks were training exercises. It could not have possibly gone any better for him in any way. If he couldn't win after the start he had then he probably just plain could not win.

On the western front Germany was only ever going to win if the USA stayed out of it. The problem was the German high command terrifically underestimated US industrial power, for the second time in as many generations, and they didn't even realise this was going to be a problem. Japan was the liability in the Axis, therefore, because Japan brough with it very little benefit and provided very little gain. If Germany was to win WITH Japan, they need Japan to both stay away from pearl Harbour, and to attack Russia from the East. Japans oil problems could have been alleviated with a pacified Russia providing a way to transport trade between them and Germany. In theory, at least.

Back to the East. There were two big mistakes Hitler made. The first was the decisions to focus on ammunition as opposed to winter climate gear. Some say it was superstition, some say it was a tactical decision to provide moreo ffensive pressure on the Russians, but either way when winter hit German morale collapsed. They were in wafer thin summer uniforms in subzero snows. It was suicidal. The second big mistake was Kursk. The Russian salient was extremely well fortified, a predictable route of attack, and wasted so many German lives that weren't available to waste. This was the final nail in the nazi coffin IMO because after that, all Germany did was retreat and lose. If they had followed Guderians plan to defend instead, they may have achieved a kill/death ratio that was too much even for the endless Russian machine.

>>132077555
The other anon also says that the Germans caught the Soviets with their pants down and their thumbs up their butts.

>>132076862

No I don't put a lot of stock into the holocaust for a few reasons, it's too political, it's been politicized so heavily by certain (((groups))) that the real meaning or warning we could gather from it is totally lost. Like I said, shades of grey, but war in if itself is not a light undertaking, and atrocities are abound in the kind of high intensity conflict, even if we are not aware of all of them.

>>132077826
Exactly. No doubt, from a peacetime lens, appealing to human rights is emotionally pleasing and certain policies have put put into place to politicize it. But war has no rules.
I don't care about UK bombings just as I don't care about German bombings. That's war. It isn't an atrocity so much as it is a struggle for existence. If you lose, you become partitioned like East/West Germany. Niggas want to avoid that.

>>132048844
You are a fucking retard. Hitler wanted war from the very start, and Chamberlain nearly sucked his dick to avoid more conflict. The Polish question pushed the Western Allies to their edge.

>>132077826
The importance of the holocaust is that Germany arrived as Liberators through a lot of Soviet territories and quickly became so hated that the Russians were actually fucking missed a few years later.

The lesson of the holocaust was the the battle for hearts and minds is morei mportant than big picture lebensraum.

Hitler was too much of a single minded ideologue to see anything else though. In this respect, the Nazi's were never going to do anything else.

>>132078040
Can someone explain why Poland was so important to the UK and why they got so triggered when Germany went in to defend its citizens?

>>132078278
There was a military pact to defend it. If Britain didn't declare war hen they would be seen as pushovers. They already risked being seen that way after appeasing Germany so much., It was a strategic and also prideful/imperial decision.

>>132048588
As long as they're fighting for their own people and their own nations for the right reasons, I could care less. I wouldn't call them "based", but I would respect them while knowing that they're different and will never be able to fully integrate into our value system.

>>132077349
stands to reason that if intelligent life exists.. they would have to find a way to bridge the gap between galaxies not just zipping around.. in between galaxies.. which forms the plasmic pattern there is absolute zero because the star engines create heat that fascilitates life, but in between galaxies there's nothingnes, a void.. So you would need what? a stardrive to travel between galaxies.. probably what they found, so sophisticated they didn't know what they found yet.. afterwards.. military started research projects in thought controlled piloting and many other areas.. wonder how they got that idea.

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If any /his/ fags can offer more insight than this it'd be great. Mostly from a short-term military framework but basically:

>Germany had literally no opportunity to ever win the war
>Blitzkrieg took advantage of a large, mechanized military of a nation with limited natural resources
>the entire strategy was to overwhelm and destroy opposing states before they had time to mobilize resources, public support, etc.
>if the US/Russia/British Empire had time to draw upon their vast natural resources in a war of attrition, Germany was fucked
>British Navy was also way too powerful, even if the German military and Luftwaffe were superior to their land-based opponents

I read somewhere that there might have been a close couple of months at the tipping point of the war if Germany had started with ~1000 U-boats, but the resources required to train and maintain a naval force that size would have been next to impossible to keep up. I guess in theory if there were blitzkrieg-esque territorial expansions to expand the resources of the third Reich interspersed with 'diplomatic pauses' overseen by a toothless League of Nations, and a stable pact with soviets, the extra time to win over whites, exterminate the kikes, etc could have brought a different outcome.

>>132078468
So why were the Soviets not punished for doing the same exact thing?

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lol Hitler was crazy and dumb because he never listened to his generals

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>>132044238
Someone besides Hitler would have had to take over Germany. Someone more intelligent and diplomatic, and less idealistic. That way they could have secured a better diplomatic position before the war and actually turned the tide. There was never enough time for the Wehrmacht to build itself up enough to be superior to the Red Army+all the other armies, and there was never enough time for the Kriegsmarine to build up to a point where it could actually face the Royal Navy. Germany's only hope of winning a second war was to adopt a non-aggressive stance and pit the Entete against the communist bloc in the USSR and China - otherwise, they would unite against it as they did in real life.

>>132078116
>The Russians were missed
>except not really, technically the holodomor wasn't even declared a real thing until shortly after the fall of soviet union and documents were released and suddenly nations around the world declared holodomor a genocide
>this alone proves how much the truth was scewed for so many decades

Western perception on what occured in the soviet union was always fed to us by the soviets themselves. Journalism was very controlled.

>>132078839
China was irrelevant back then and depending on certain IJA circumstances may never have succombed to communism.

>>132078813
Because the Soviets were not pushing the British envelope. Also, declaring war on the Soviets was strategically stupid for the west.

>>132078710
Britain had always primarily defended itself and its interests through naval power. The time and resources it would have taken Germany to truly compete were too great to ever try. Uboats were an attempt to circumvent the British advantage and to some extent it worked. I think in reality the British surrender scenario would have been strategic defeat in North Africa, leading to a separate white peace with Germany if it became apparent that the Soviets would lose, the USA would not enter and the expense of maintaining an air war with the Germans was too great for the British long term.

>>132078839
>adopt a non aggressive stance
>which Germany did
>went about undoing the treaty and bringing in German populated land in Germany into Germany
>suddenly weird foreign globalists stick their heads in and say only we can do stuff like that you cant, even though Russia invaded a dozen nations in order to become the soviet union idc idc Germany cant theyre fuking racist!!!!!!

>>132079114
I suppose you have a point but I wouldn't downplay the threat of the Soviets who were intent on spreading communimsm to the west regardless of German involvement.

>>132078710
Imo, Hitler would never have had the opportunity to solidify his gains no matter what he did. He repeatedly attempted to sue for peace all throughout the war, even when he was wiping the floor with everyone, and Britain still refused to come to terms. His only hope would have been to take the home islands and even if he could do that (which he couldn't, because the Kriegsmarine was incredibly weak compared to the Royal Navy), as Churchill said himself, they would continue fighting in exile until the New World came to their rescue. Or more likely, the Soviets.

And on the matter of the Soviets: Hitler neither sought nor desired anything but total victory over the Russians in the first place. This was never something he could achieve so long as the USSR was on the same side as Britain and the US. So in my view, the very fact that Hitler and his social-darwinist lebensraum doctrine came to power in the first place doomed Germany from the outset. He was too much of an idealist to do anything but wage total war and sentence Germany to the abyss.

>>132079114
>declaring war on the Soviets was strategically stupid for the west.
Actually declaring war period was stupid for the west. If they weren't controlled by jews they would have just let Germany and Japan destroy communism, and then declare war on them after those two are exhausted.

Communist sympathizers and jews in high positions of influence was a real thing. It's the only thing that explains the " 4th crusade " type actions of Western Europe in ww2.

>>132044238
A do over? Well let's see

How about well equipped winter soldiers and not setting forth for Russia in the worst winter ever - that alone killed man men and lost many vehicles

>>132044238
>How could Germany have won?
Well, for starters, It should have no engaged
it's neighbors in the beginning of the war. If not attacked, they should have focused entirely on Russia. In fact, they should have started the war under that pretense. Had they taken Russia and only Russia first, they would have had all the necessary resources needed for a prolonged war. The best part about that plan is that no body would have cared, nobody would have stopped them.

At Dunkirk attack the retreating allies and hold off on attacking Russia until England was finished, also force all Jewish men over 18 into the military.

>>132079398
That's a ridiculously oversimplified view of the situation desu. Keep in mind France was seen as the greatest mainland European power at the time and Germany fucked him up in such a complete and rapid manner that it shook the entire world. You were looking at a threat to the west that could not be understated. There was no sitting on the front porch rocking chair listening to the wireless here. This was a matter of combine to overcome, or die one by one.

>>132044549
>should of
>flag
How are you doing, Tyrone?

>>132079418
>Operation Barbarossa began in the spring
Another uneducated person educated. Why are National Socialists always having to correct people?

The irony is that by your logic Germany should have actually began the invasion in the winter in order for the bulk of fighting to take place in the spring later on...ahahahaha

>>132079241
>which Germany did
Declaring war on Poland - thus by extension on Britain and France - as well as the USSR is "non-aggressive"? Wow, thanks for enlightening me.

But seriously, Hitler had numerous opportunities to try and curry favor with one side against the other. He was just too much of an idealist to stoop to it. He truly believed Germany was superior and would win out in the end.

As for all that incoherent rambling at the end about the Soviets, I don't know where you got that from, because I never said any of it. Are you Ukrainian diaspora? You seem like it.

>>132078554
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqhLO4RZgdo
related to the "black sun".

>>132047615
Exactly. Finland, Poland, and Romania were just the beginning and Hitler knew that.

>>132079576
Germany isn't a threat to the west. France and England declared war on Germany and then France invaded Germany in an attempt to find evidence that Germany was planning an invasion and they found nothing.
Germany's actions in the west by all means are technically a counter attack.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saar_Offensive

>>132078710
Well that was the amazing thing about Germany, primarily their shock forces ( waffen ss panzer brigades ) they would hit with such force that the enemy would suspect their attackers of a much larger bunch than they actually were

They had to strike first and hope surprise was in their favor, which is typically was

>>132079654
The engine responds to emotions every little thing it changes hue. which is interesting and the alloy changes temperature to the one who touches it.

>>132079418

Read Leon degrelles eastern front and get back at me with that, the winter froze the whole front

>>132079650
>thus by extension Britian and France
Last I checked Poland is the buffer state between Soviet Union and Germany and is extremely important to those two dangerous mega powerful rival nations.
Is this the worst alliance made in human history commited by Britain and France? Why were Britain and France so incompetent? Well I already explained (((why)))

>>132079744
Germany was a threat to the west, Hitlers explicit ambition was to become a great power. If you understand anything about international relations, you will know that when an existing great power sees a new rival, there is almost always some kind of conflict, because the existing great power will be able to exert significantly less influence when competing with an old one. Germany wanted colonies, primarily in eastern Europe but also Africa, it wanted resources, it wanted manpower. If it got them, Britain would lose access to economic allies and relative position.

This might seem like a pretty abstract threat to you, but it's a very real threat if you're a patriot of the British empire, or the French.

>>132044549
Hitler would never have not attacked Russia because it was the only land space his country could expand into. Hitler knew that a land-based great power like Germany requires a lot of space, both as "living space" and as territory to perform a defense-in-depth in case of invasion. He also knew that having a large hinterland could help insulate Germany from naval threats, i.e. Britain. The entire point of the war was for Germany to acquire more territory and thus expand its hinterland. His ultimate plan was to depopulate the east through forced migration or genocide, as the US did in its western frontier, and send Germans East to fuel an economic boom like the one the US experienced. The only way he could achieve that was total victory over Russia. So not ever attacking Russia was simply not an option in his mind. The war could only be delayed, not stopped.

>>132079966
Ironically Britain and France lost most of its colonial influence across the world after the war.

>>132079744
Germany absolutely was a threat to the West. The rise of a continental hegemon has always been Britain's greatest fear, because it would constitute a peer competitor to the British Empire. Simply by growing in power Germany constituted a threat - and if Hitler were left to his own devices and allowed to simply conquer Russia and do whatever he wanted? Well, he'd end up even more powerful than the USSR did in our timeline. They would be a superpower. That is the last thing the great powers esp. Britain (who at the time was still considered the foremost great power) wanted.

>>132079966
Actually a patriot of the British Empire wouldn't be allying with communists and if they were at all competent would commit some common sense as I explained earlier. Let the two authoritarian " evil " nations fight eachother that threaten french and anglo cuck liberalism- and then come in at the end and suffer a fraction of the casualties and defeat both " evils " .

Obviously this didn't happen because again, Communist sympathizers and jews both in positions of high influence. General Patton would agree with my idea because it's just common sense, it's his idea. It's anyones basic deduction on what to do in that situation if you hate both soviets and national socialists.

Instead the British Empire destroyed itself, France got occupied by Germany and its navy completely destroyed by Britian ironically, and the Soviet Union gets to grow and Communist China as a bonus comes into existence.

This is just nonsense, it only makes sense to the jew and communist sympathizers. They won the war. Not British or French patriots.

>>132079926
They guaranteed Poland both to check the power of Germany and to uphold the international order. And to deter Germany from declaring a war. Evidently that only worked for so long but no, it wasn't da jooz.

>>132080354
A patriot of the British Empire doesn't give a fuck if their temporary allies are communists because what matters to them is the British Empire not the breadlines in Moscow.

Mate if I can be so bold I would suggest that you've blinded yourself to your nationalist biases. You're reinterpreting history to suit your worldview and not vice versa.

You're too hung up on the agreements that formed Israel and weird mystic ideas about psychic jewish mind-communications that allows them all to act monolithically towards secret goals in spite of the other races. Shake it off bud. The real red pill is realising nothing fucking matters but the barrell of the gun and who's holding the trigger.

>>132080370
>They guaranteed Poland both to check the power of Germany and to uphold the international order.

Yet common sense dictates that Poland being gone would mean war be innevitable between Soviets and Germany as no more barriers remain in the way and this would be ideal.

>>132080851
War was already inevitable between Germany and the Soviets, the guarantee at the very least helped the entete stall for time and bring their larger economy to bear. Also, giving up Poland for no reason would have been tremendously foolish anyway. It would have empowered both the Soviets and Germany, allowed Hitler to immediately divert his forces west much more quickly, made Britain and France look weak on the world stage... It would have just been an awful idea overall. Even dumber than the Czech debacle.