/pol/ communism general

>Not allowed to cook, because ovens are a means of production.

>Not allowed to fix your own shit when it breaks, because you cannot own tools, which are a means of production.

>Not allowed to have a spare guest bedroom, because it is not being utilized efficiently.

>Here you go comrade, we are moving a refugee family into your guest room. Also you need to figure out how to feed them all. Good luck!

Sorry commy friend. I prefer my mcdonalds to have beef and not cow shit in it.

Go start your own gommunist island where people sit in circles and talk about the evil capitalists and their hamburgers that contain meat instead of shit in them.

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Daily reminder that there has never been a successful socialist society.

>>132035370
We should round up all communist fags worldwide, give some land adequate for survival to them, some starting equipment / funds, and let them have their own country. It'd be fun to watch. No embargos or shit like that but no foreign aid to them either.

It could be an ongoing project, since communists seem to spawn constantly, they should be sent to this "communistan" to replace the people who have already starved to death.

>>132037564
>Daily reminder that there has never been a successful socialist society.

Bump because I too am a communist

>>132038159
Actually /pol/ is sympathetic to communism. What unites /pol/ is civic nationalism (abolition of racism, sexism, etc) in exchange of nationalism which under Bolshevik socialism is very compatible.

>>132037564
Reminder there has never been a sucessful fascist state

>>132037393
If you like capitalism go to Somalia

>>132037171
That's bullshit.

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>>132038256

Actually socialist patriotism is infinitely better than nationalism

>>132038500
HOLY FUCK BASSSSSSED

>>132038339
>there has never been a sucessful fascist state

chile, retard

>>132038771
Chile was rekt by Pinochet IDIOT and is still poor as crap.

>>132038256
>/pol/ is sympathetic to communism
>What unites /pol/ is civic nationalism (abolition of racism, sexism, etc)
>abolition of racism, sexism

you have no idea where the fuck you are, do you?

>>132038841
>Chile was rekt by Pinochet

don't get mad because he threw you niggers out of helicopters

>>132038963
That's actually a myth

>>132038900
/pol/ is ironically racist. It's a social tabboo but im pretty sure all of us have black friend and asian friends.

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>>132035370
No thanks, leave this red shit for yourself

>>132038963

Actually he only throw corpses to the sea, never used it as execution method , not even that meme is true.

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>>132039081
>/pol/ is ironically racist

you are one dumb nigger

>>132039104
Even my Rabbi says communism is acceptable with Jewish ideology. You're delusional buddy

>>132039206
Stop laughing

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>>132039194

*threw

>>132039104

Russian federation is pure crap

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>>132038841
t.spanish cuck

>>132037171
Private property != Personal property

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>>132039327
Where have I seen this chart before?

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>>132039081
>/pol/ is ironically racist.

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>>132039081
I have friends of all races.
And I know they're genetically inferior.

>>132038256
What fucking /pol/ are you on?

piss off

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>>132035370

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>>132039297
>Stop laughing

>>132039533
That's racist actually

>>132039591
The real /pol/ not the ironic /pol/

>>132039679
>anarcho-capitalist
>anti-thoughtcrime
LOL

this entire thread has to be a joke

>>132035370
Daily reminder that Lenin, and the Bolsheviks, stole the revolution from the workers and is direct reason everything descended into an oligarchy.

>>132039967
You're a troll, fuck off

>>132040032
Lenin was based though it's stalin who's fucked.

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>>132035370
S A G E
A
G
E

>>132040352
>racism
>not realizing it's against the rules
Enjoy ban.

>>132039327
>MUH TRILLION HUNDRETS THOUTHANDS OF LOST GDP
Such a cliched """proof""" that I even don't want to explain it to a new autistic commie

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>>132039967
communism is a joke

>>132035370
Gommunism general guy, where are you at? we need you!

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>>132038339
>Reminder there has never been a sucessful fascist state
Argentina, Portugal, Spain, Roman Empire, Chinese Empire

>>132040326
False. The factory workers had taken control of their workplaces, elected managers and formed unions. The workers could have directly controlled the means of production. But Lenin decided the workers couldn't be trusted and appointed party members to control the factories.

>>132040792
Those are all failed states.

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>>132038256
you must really be new here nigger

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Hello gomrades! XDDDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of revolutionary socialism and gommunism.

Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.

Wat exagtly is gommunism according to gommies:

>Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. XDDDD
>Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :DDDD
>To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liquidate you all lol. When capitalists run away we win and I kill you all. Eventually the functions of state cease and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people.
https://www.gommies.gom/fug/
https://www.gommies.gom/starve/

GL uses philosphy of gib and starve, see here:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohfugme/

It is recommend you kill yourself so you can avoid starving.

Resources:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohshid/
https://www.gommies.gom/1984/
https://www.gommies.gom/guck/
https://www.gommies.gom/probaganda/
https://www.gommies.gom/XDDDD/
https://www.gommies.gom/wheresfood/
https://www.gommies.gom/benis/

-----------------------------------------
Da sdages of gommunism.

>Sdage one
Bourgers aren't allowed to vode :DDD but otherwise da system is digtadorshib of gommies. Everything is stole by digtadors and digtadors rule all.

>Sdade two
Withering
All beeple who aren't digtador glass starve. XDDD Once glass disabears and we steal everything more beeple wither away. Bolice begome unnecessary as beeple are dead lol :DDDDD Central blanning begomes unnecessary begause sgarcity caused starving. Money is all ours.

>Sdage three
Gommunism.
No beeple. No food. My money. Much benis.

>>132041064
I'm an oldfag actually

G-A-Y

>>132041079
Finally the -mmunism i like

>>132041136
an old commie maybe.
the only good commie is a dead one

>>132035370
Gtfo red nigger

>>132039425
>Private property != Personal property
Under communism, there is no such thing as personal property. All property is owned by everyone.

When will you red faggots learn your lesson? You aren't wanted here.

>>132039297
>>132039104
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_y0LxcANic

>>132041335
Nah, been here since 2015. The only good confederate is one locked up in an SPLC run hatewatch facility.

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Nazi porn=Best political porn.

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>>132039679

>>132041079
Finally, you arrived!

Also:
>Captcha: Helicopter

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>>132041005
No state last forever.

>>132041491
That's simply not true

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>>132041491

Wrong.

What are you communists going to do about the roach problem?

How do we ensure Kurdistans existence, most of /pol/is retarded Assad supporters.

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>>132038256
>What unites /pol/ is civic nationalism
Oh sweet summer child, if only you knew how wrong you are

>>132045366

Support Rojava.

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Totalitarianism is a meme, seasteading is the answer to social woes that you're looking for.

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>>132045524
Why do you support Rojava?

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>>132038256
>What unites /pol/ is civic nationalism
You really need to lurk more

>>132047478

Because they protect the kurds in the zone and even if they are not marxist-leninist state they are still socialists and given the chance in the future more negotiable or easier to subvert than reactionary bourgeois states.

>>132045160
>>132044500
So if I use my oven to bake cookies, and then trade the cookies for other goods, that's not a means of production or capitalism?

>>132048887

that's simply barter, you aren't using the cookies to generate a profit

>>132049174
Profit is generated through beneficial trade.
If a guy wants to give me a chicken for 10 cookies, and I use my negotiation tactics to convince him that I will only pay 5 cookies for a chicken, then I just made a 5 cookie profit.

So are you going to ban negotiation and haggling?

>>132049748

no.. the guy just get what he wants too, there is no money , you don't increase your capital in this situation. You can't use those cookies as if they were money either, is not a currency in principle.

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After 1900, Communism is the #3 killer of the human race.
Right behind old age and disease

This ideology has slaughtered hundreds of millions of people, and turned billions into functional slaves

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>>132050656

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>>132050590
You do realize money is just a representation of value used so that I don't have to physically carry around cookies to trade, right?

>>132035370
I guess that settles it. Saturday is /leftypol/ raid day.


Hey is the Finn here?

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>>132050703
Sounds like you need a 3rd position then.

>>132050822

Yes but that's another situation

>>132050914

there is no third position, fascism is capitalism without the pseudodemocracy

>>132050703
>every famine in the world, every massacre, and every natural disaster is capitalism's fault

Spainon this has been debunked multiple times on /leftypol/ even.
Get your head together.

IMO like I told you months ago it's obvious IAMSILLY material meant to be spread by you to de-legitimize your stances to normal people. Not that I agree with your stances at all.

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>>132050703
This is blaming all deaths of war and disease on capitalism. Most of the death tolls are grossly inflated. These deaths are not linked to the capitalist economic system, they are linked to state actions.
Capitalist economies are generally extremely wealthy and prosperous, it's people free and able to express themselves openly.

Anyone stupid enough to fall for this is too dumb to live

>>132051048
>fascism is capitalism
I already know why you think that and I just want to say you're wrong. Read the doctrines by the various fascist philosophers and take note of dialect. Mussolini wrote 'corporate' which meant guild. Basically a syndicate. He "privatized" minor industry by reducing the bureaucracy regarding the industries separated even though they could still be reabsorbed depending on the needs of the people. That sort of thing.

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>>132051048
Wrong. Fascism is very similar to national syndicalism. If you want to understand fascism, try reading up on it.

Also an oven in your kitchen and some ingredients are personal property(property intended for personal use and gained in a socially fair manner) and not private property.

>>132051058
>Smoking cigarettes is capitalisms fault

top kek

>>132050954
>Yes but that's another situation
No it isn't.

All of the "economic disparity" you see in Capitalism is caused by negotiation and compromise.
A guy wants 10 cookies for a chicken, and 1 give him 5 cookies, and he takes the deal, that doesn't mean he's happy with the deal. It means he settled for it.

The same thing happens every single day when people demand a $15 minimum wage and then they settle for a lower wage anyways. They take the deal, but are not happy with it.

you are right I was thinking of nazism, they were the capitalists not Mussolini

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>>132051515
>'personal property' is not private property

>>132051515
>Personal property
I would say 'always concessions with you people' like I usually do but that's the exact way National Socialism's property rights go.
And that's one of the big things you say you hate about national socialism.
Makes little sense IMO
Or maybe you didn't start with that opinion and you developed it due to exposure by making these threads. Are we finally getting through to you?

>>132051679
It is but as far as he's trying to describe private property = excessive land(AKA property).
That's about it.

>>132051621

Market is not equal to capitalism. There were markets in ancient Greece for example or during feudalism, what defines capitalism is the existence of private property of the means of production to generate profit.

>>132051515
Define personal property and private property.

>>132051668
>National socialism is capitalism
You couldn't even explain your excuses for thinking that I bet.
Or you'll use the tried and failed old /leftypol/ propaganda.
Scrub that shit from your head and learn bottom up. The neckbeards on /leftypol/ don't know shit about politics/economics DESU.

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Can someone explain the Soviet "second economy" to me?

>>132051886
>Market is not equal to capitalism

Gentlemen we're watching the conversion of Spainon from edgy communist to national socialist/market socialist.

Also Spainon, markets require some level of property though otherwise there's nothing to trade and thus no market.

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>>132051964
It sounds like it was basically the same situation happening in North Korea, a thriving black market making up for the failures of the planned economy.

>>132051886
>>132051886
You may not realize you're doing it, but you're playing semantic word games.

According to Das Kapital, a "means of production" is any object which, once labor is applied, can be used to create a good. This includes things like factories, machines, tools, and it also includes raw materials from the earth, like lumber, water, or iron ore.

You mean to tell me that according to Karl Marx, I cannot privately own a stack of lumber, because I might use it to sell something for a profit?

>>132051930
>Define personal property and private property.

personal property: your house, car, your clothes, your kitchen for your own food, your computer, your playstation 4...

private propery: means of production: factories, mines, dams, infrastructure, natural vegetation, mountains, deserts, seas, etc,

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>>132052271
Exactly. Basically it's a network of favors and underground black market funneling people the resources they need to live. An underground capitalist economy.

This exists because the communist "economy" defies human nature. Rather than going along with it, people reject the system on an individual level. Talk to a Russian who lived through the USSR, they will tell you that in order to procure anything (toilet paper, toothbrushes, canned food), you had to rely on this black market network.

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>>132035370
>Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage.

>>132052468
Isn't a 3D printer the "means of production"?

It seems like this distinction you're making bears more relevance to early 20th century eastern Europe, and does not have much relevance to the modern world. Who owns the "means of production" at Google?

>>132052468
Let me rephrase the question.

How do you define the different between saying "I personally own this" vs "I privately own this".

If your personal property is not private, then it is not yours at all, because it can be taken by somebody else.

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>>132052986
Learn how to sage you absolute retard

>>132053060
I'm trying to engage in a good faith discussion on this anonymous tibetan throat singing forum. If you don't like it you are welcome to leave.

>>132053201
Have your honest discussion, but sage this shit

>>132053201
Sage makes it so your shitty post doesn't bump the thread

>>132053269
>>132053270
It's kind of hard to have a discussion if I let the thread die.

>>132053476
Bumping the thread is doing their work for them. That's why they make these threads here, so people will see it and hopefully get indoctrinated.
The least you can do is sage it down

reminder that commies are fucking retarded

>>132052102

I'm utterly against the market. I advocate for a planned economy, specifically an computerized planned economy in an automatic state system.

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>>132053634
That doesn't sound like communism at all, just some sort of futuristic state capitalism.

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>>132053634
>Trusting a computer to make accurate predictions of human desires or behavior.

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>>132035370
You are a faggot, Pablo. Y o u a r e a f a g g o t

>>132053634
Who said you couldn't have a planned internal market?

>>132053987

No, it's socialism, this system would transform society gradually into one that is classless,moneyless and stateless and follows the maxim "From each gives according to their ability.To each according to their needs"

>>132054167
>Having a fixed-price planned economy.

Just in case communism didn't have enough reasons for people to never invent new things?

>>132054039

Do you trust a corrupt politican more?

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>>132054339
And yet the workers wouldn't own the means of production, a robot dictator would own them.

>>132054390
And yet you want to give the politicians control of every business in the country.

>>132037808
If only someone had drafted a blueprint or plan of some sort to ship people en masse to Madagascar.

>>132054339
>"From each gives according to their ability. To each according to their needs"

Theres a huge problem with that maxim, and it exist within the human element.

If each person receives benefit according to their need, and each person must give away the product of their labor according to their ability to produce, then what is the way for an individual to have the greatest personal benefit?

The way to benefit the most in a society that lives by that maxim is to have as many needs as possible, and as few abilities as possible. There is no incentive for people to improve their abilities This is basic Game Theory.

Yes, yes, IN THEORY the way to created the greatest possible benefit would be for every single citizen to work to the maximum of their possible ability. However, human beings do not act this altruistically in reality, and we come to a "Prisoner's Dilemma"

Communism hasn't occured yet.

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>>132055063
We haven't really been given any reason that it will ever occur, or even why we should want it to occur.

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>>132055063
And it never will.

>>132055480
Communists don't understand the concept of rational self interest or Game Theory.

>Why would anybody ever want to betray me? Who would do such a thing?

>>132055480
>Return on investment
For what? Everything is "free".

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>>132056788
So then why give the society their food? The farmer has nothing to gain from doing so, but possibly everything to lose, so logically any farmer will hoard his food while still taking from the rest of society.

>>132055480
>such a fundamentally brain-dead ideology
So Einstein was retarded?
>can NEVER be implemented
You can't implement Communism, it has to be a progression from Capitalism to Socialism to Communism.
>some shitty example and anecdote about how were all evil greedy assholes (thanks by and large to Capitalism anyway)
http://archive.is/nXKlr
"Fundamental tendencies toward altruism aren’t only seen in children, either. Worldwide, the aftermath of natural disasters are typically characterized by heroism and a sharing of resources — within the affected community and in others farther way — not selfish panics. During the terrorist attacks of 9/11, for example, there were no accounts of people being trampled rushing out of the World Trade Center towers; rather, those who needed assistance descending were cared for, and calm mainly prevailed. The same occurred after the earthquake, tsunami and nuclear meltdown in Japan in 2011. The cases in which people stampede or look out only for themselves tend to be rare and involve very specific circumstances that mitigate against helpfulness."
>a shitty screencap
2/10 I replied

>>132057049
>Everything to lose
But they don't. They have garenteed services and products from society if they contribute the food they've grown.

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>>132057261
But in a communist society they get resources based on their needs, not on their contributions, therefore their most logical course of action is to give nothing and take as much as they can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIu29su9Xr8

>>132057442
But if those farmer "give" so much that they create a "need" for themselves then society will allocate resources to them. Surly the farmers don't grow all of the food they will want to consume?

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>>132057170
I like triggered commies.

>>132057799
>me
>triggered
I mean I am here from reddit.com/r/@ and /r/soc discord so

>>132057049

if hobby farmers don't wish to do it (in communism you work in something because it is what you like to do) some robots would do the job.

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>>132058029
Oh i see. You live in a perpetual triggered state.

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i try but i genuinely cant understand how someone would look at the facts and still support communism,is one of those mysteries of life that we might never get,and by we,i mean smart people and white people like me

I believe communism would take at least centuries to be achieved only after reaching global socialism for generations, socialism being better than capitalism naturally.

>>132058204
>Kim Kardashian
>never ran a company
>never held political office
>did porn with some third rate nigger rapper
>Daddy was OJ's lawyer
>somehow Capitalism has allocated resources to her in an efficient manner

>>132057799
>Marxists have to be intelligent enough to memorize all this dross, and disciplined enough to never consider how stupid it all is
>Arrogance without results is the domain of fools

This perfectly sums up university social sciences

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>>132058347
dumb people cant be helped,they will fuck up in capitalism and they will starve faster on communism,its an raising and education problem,not a capitalist matter

>>132058219
luxury to believe whatever you want without suffering consequences is how it happens.

naturally once these people get into a position of power that has consequences, they fuck everything up and in their shock they double down.

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>>132058219
What facts are those?

>>132058592
But dumb people can be helped if we create a society that produces for use rather than for exchange and that allocates from each according to their ability and to each according to their need.

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>>132060950
Are you too mentally retarded to notice that "to each according to their needs and from each according to their ability" is the stupidest thing someone could possibly come up with?

You know, why does a worker deserve the returns from the investments he implicitly chose not to make? Why would being a shittier person entitled me to earn more stuff, while having more valuable skills to others specifically mean that I deserve less? You know, even in the 40s, even in the 20s, the average person knew the marxism was just sophistry nonsense for a political pursuit. Nobody actually believed in it on an intellectual level. All what marx proposed was just superficial nonsense for an emotional political pursuit.

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Hello, leftypol.

>there are people over 20 years old that are unironically communist

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>>132058347
You know what this tells me?

Capitalism is a system where anyone can become rich.

Communism is a system where no one can.

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You have to study 15 years to become communist after all.

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>>132063348

Hi comrade

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>>132038841
>Chile
>poor

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Ever seen any national-trotskiests?

>>132063774
You have to be dedicated enough to study marxism, and stupid enough not to see the flaws in it.

Fanaticism without intelligence, a deadly combination.

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>>132035370
You have to be 18+ to post here

>>132035370
The jew thread.

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>>132064027
Marxism has no flaws. It is for all to follow Marxist thought, comrade.

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>>132060950
>>132062408
Continuing
>if you wanna change the world you start from yourself and work outward because you build your competence that way
>I don't know how you can go out and protest the structure of the entire economic system if you can't keep your room organized
>don't be fixing up the economy eighteen year olds. You don't know anything about the economy, it's a massive complex machine beyond anyone's understatement and you mess with it at your peril
>So, can you even clean up your own room? No. Well, you should think about that. Because if you can't even clean up your own room, who the hell are you to give advice to the whole world?
Do you think it's a coincidence how most people who understand psychology don't even treat communism as a valid pursuit and treat it more like some sort of mental plague?

"to each according to their needs and from each according to their ability" ; what type of lunatic would actually believe in that? So, the more you need, and the more destructive you are, the more you deserve? And the more capable and good to society you are, the more you should be forced to work? To even glance at this proposition with uncertainty would be a sign of severe mental derangement, your mind literally cannot function right.

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>>132064288
>Marxism has no flaws.
It has failed literally every time it has been implemented. No country has ever adopted Marx's ideas without later returning to capitalism... or suffering total economic collapse.

The only reason it has ever existed was as a vehicle for jews to take power in Russia. It relies on a cult of victimhood, claiming that the world owes you something, that people who are more successful than you owe you something, that it's not your fault you have no skills and work at McDonalds for $10/hour.

Take responsibility for your own life. That's how you become a self-actualized human being.

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>your mind literally cannot function right.

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>>132035370

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communist are the most deluded people on earth. they blindly follow the elites plan to redistribute wealth, and we all know the elites never actually do it.

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>>132064288
Marxism is literally one gigantic pile of flaws. It's motives are psychological flaws, it's economic framework is flawed. It's morals are flawed and subjective. Everyone country that adopted it became severely flawed.
>workers deserve the returns from the investments they never made
>hiring people and investing in productive capital (aka, economic growth) is immoral and the equivalent of stealing from people
>people deserve more the less skilled and capable they are, people deserve less the more skilled and capable they are
>having an economy where the valuing of good is illegal makes sense
>we can make economical planning arbitrarely
Literally, every single axionic proposition in this entire ideology is nonsense. Every, single, one. Marxism is almost a synonymous to the meaning of "flaw".

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>>132064631
Before Napoleon came it took some time for Feudal states to sink, yes? They fought hard. Big revolutionary army was necessary.

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>>132064856

>>132035370
daily kys thread

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bump

>>132064417

>"to each according to their needs and from each according to their ability" ; what type of lunatic would actually believe in that?

Destructive genetic traits have been neutralized during the socialist phase

So, the more you need, and the more destructive you are, the more you deserve?

You can't abuse because greedy traits have been eliminated from the gene pool, that is ,individuals with the most greed tendency have been negatively selected.

And the more capable and good to society you are, the more you should be forced to work?

there is no police, you are not enforced by any state, all the network of commune infrastructe is a network that senses and protects the whole community so, you are free to work as much as you want, if you don't work some robot would for you.

>To even glance at this proposition with uncertainty would be a sign of severe mental derangement, your mind literally cannot function right.

My mind is excited with the possibilities.

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>>132064668
>highlights post by the user
>only random commie pics with no arguments, no refutations, not a single proposition
>literally spam trolling

>posts pic about how refuting central points and solid arguments are important
Jesus Christ. Are commies really this mentally disconnected from reality?

>>132065065
Communists believe in eugenics now.

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>>132058182
So your system literally relies on magic robots in the future to do all the work? Why even fight for communism then, everything will just sort itself out naturally.

>>132064829
>Literally, every single axionic proposition in this entire ideology is nonsense. Every, single, one. Marxism is almost a synonymous to the meaning of "flaw".
This.

The biggest flaw with Marxism is, in my opinion, the fact that it relies PURELY on ideology and rhetoric, never on science or observation.

The way Marxism works is through "dialectics", find a thesis: an allegedly oppressed group, find an anti-thesis: an oppressor, then try to combine them by destroying any difference between them. Then you have synthesis! That's supposed to create a better world. Somehow. Except that it's utter nonsense. As if you can take a hawk and a mouse and brainwash the hawk into thinking its a mouse and force them to live together and be equals.

>>132064856
The French Revolution was the worst thing to happen in human history. Before then, wars were fought with small professional armies with minimal collateral damage. The republicans invented the concept of total war, where every citizen was mobilized and every citizen from the other country was an enemy. This would lead to massive devastating ideological wars and genocides that would lead to the destruction of Europe many times over.

And for all this, what did the aristocracy do that was so evil? Maintain some roads and windmills based on taxation? If the goal was to eliminate that, then good job, all that happened was a new, more corrupt and less competent leadership caste was installed, with all the same privileges.

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>>132065065
>reddit space
>incredible mess of an argument
>"Destructive genetic traits have been neutralized during the socialist phase"
>"You can't abuse because greedy traits have been eliminated from the gene pool"
>"There's no police to enforce 'to each according to their means and from each according to their ability' meaning it won't be applied. Meaning I literally cannot defend my communist philosophical proposition."
mfw

>>132065244

I do believe in eugenics, that is, improving the genome of humanity and optimizing it for the socialist society.

>>132065899
Communists inherently believe in dysgenics.

They support the unfit, incompetent and lazy at the expense of the fit, skilled and hard-working. They redistribute wealth from the natural elite, who earned their status through generations of natural economic selection, to the bottom, who had never earned or achieved anything.

Not to mention the new leadership, the corrupt bureaucrat class who are installed for ideological reasons and never because of merit.

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>>132065899
Yeah, I've heard your communist proposals for "eugenics" and so far it's always been "why don't' we just take away free will?". You guys would be scary if you weren't so weak.

>>132066146

The natural elite as you call it has inherited their fortune, trump is not much of a hard worker as a poor plumber.

>>132066395

Free will doesn't exist.

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>>132066474
yes it does. Hard determinism completely disregards human experience and is just an attempt to make people accept their position in life.

>>132066426
>inherited their fortunes
You do realize the vast majority of the elites' """fortunes""" doesn't exist right. There's not enough printed money to compensate for all the money that the elites have.

Fun fact, if the economy were destroyed and money became useless, then the elite would still have their power even if they have no money to back it up.

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>>132066474
Regardless of whether or not you think free will exists, the idea of turning humans into puppets or some hive mind so that your system may someday work is pretty disgusting.

>>132066580

You are made of matter, there is nothing magical inside your skull.

>>132062408
>You know, why does a worker deserve the returns from the investments he implicitly chose not to make?
The bourgeoisie are not workers and we do not believe in markets so there would not be any "investment" either.

>>132066636

I understand you think it is scary if you don't see the communist society with good eyes, you think a stateless, moneyless and classless society is something bad.

I found /yourguy/ gommunists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH9joDDp-7A
listen to last minute

>>132064959
>hurr fascism is when you kill people and the more people you kill the fascister it is.

Guess every country on the planet is fascist then.

>>132066666
the consciousness is not derived from matter. The mind is separate, though tied.

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>>132066666
Digits confirm you're full of demonic energy.

>>132066580
>muh human experience
What is intuitive is not what is logical or scientifically supported.

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>>132066824
I think turning humans into ants is bad. A stateless, moneyless and classless society is neither bad nor good, only the results it brings determines the morality of the system. And so far, communism has proved itself to be extremely evil.

>>132066729
>we do not believe in markets
How is a farmer supposed to get items like wood, water and clothing if there's no markets? Do you really think people would happily trade their goods for other goods? What if you drill for oil for a living; how the hell do you get access to the necessitates you need to live?

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>>132064695

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>>132065244
I also in favor of genetic improvements in people.

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Communism is the ultimate politically correct ideology.

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>>132065899
>individualist society where everyone respects each other's space is an evil against mankind
>openly declares himself an enemy of mankind with the intuition of enslaving individuals through genetic control.
Behold the machinations of the mind of a 18 social outcast.
Good thing economists already debunked communism on an objective level. And you cannot have an economical system where everyone owns everything. There's no information for mutualism. In the future, even robots will have AIs to individually value what they need and to work and purchase resources based on whats more profitable and cost effective, in order for it to be in mutual accordance to the rest of the system.

So, thankfully, someone who's smart enough to alter the human genome would probably know that communism is a huge pile of steaming shit.

>>132067016
That "science" you speak of is just Man's attempt to appear smarter than God. A misguided punch trying to avoid the truth that you are held to judgement. It lost all its credentials long ago. Now, science is whatever you are paid to "discover" while despairingly crying out "seeing is believing! if I cant see it, it doesnt exist! gods not real! morals are relative!"

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>>132067138

>>132067138
>what is America
>what is the entirety of western Europe
>what is Australia, Japan and most first world countries
But Yugoslavia and the USSR were successful right?

>>132066666
Satan plz. If there's no soul, the world is entirely materialistic and mechanistic, then there's no moral impetus to support communism either. Nor any material impetus, because material is just an instrumental need towards avoiding pain and achieving pleasure, both of which are just signals in the brain without any meaning except what we attach to them.

Become an ascetic, not a commie.

>>132066729
>we do not believe in markets so there would not be any "investment" either.
Commies bringing their economic sense to the table and putting it down for everyone to see.

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>>132035370
no

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>>132041079

>>132067076
We believe in a planned economy as opposed our current market system. We think the things you use should be distributed to you and the things you produce be distributed elsewhere according to what is necessary or desirable. E.g a farmer receives wood, running water and clothing while providing food. Kind of like a market just cutting out the parasitic and unnecessary middle-man of the market itself.

>>132066636

They are not any less puppets than they are now, we are not free, not at least in the sense you would like to be true, we feel we are free ,it's a byproduct sensation of our brain activity yet is something beautiful to experience. We are connected with the rest of the universe up to the last atom in our body. I just want to see a more fair rearrangement of the matter on this planet, specially one that maximizes the happiness of all humans. I won't see this in my lifetime but our descendants will I hope.

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Whenever you see this thread, just remind them:

COMMUNISM IS THE ULTIMATE POLITICALLY CORRECT IDEOLOGY

my consciousness is matter. This particular configuration and behavior of it.

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Reminder communism is the ideology of teenagers wanting free shit

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>>132067311

>>132067284
There is no god and there are no real morals either.

>>132066729
>The bourgeoisie are not workers
Oh look, another dogmatic statement that has to be taken for granted. Being a "worker" or not is something subjectively defined by marxists, so, not even productive work can have an objective definition in the marxist worldview.

So yeah, apparently, if I buy tools with the fruits of my own labor, and I invest my own labor onto something, then I hire someone, that one person deserves all the thousands it took to employ him just because he showed up there for a job offer? What type of mentally retarded lunatic would believe in this? Notice how you dodged this obvious criticism with a dogmatic statement, typical of a delusional cult.

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>>132067485
But why communism? You never really give a reason why communism is preferable to capitalism or fascism. You assume that humans want equality and freedom or that equality and freedom are good things with no support for that claim.

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Communism is the ultimate politically correct ideology.

>>132067474
god tier movie. Too bad the 2nd disappointed

>>132041852
>2015
>oldfag

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>>132058029
KEK
It must be truly shocking to come out of commie echo chambers to a community where half of the population can objectively debunk everything you believe in.

>>132067055

Communism is the end of exploitation, the end of slavery, that alone has implications on the wellbeing of humans don't you think?

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>>132067587
>any of those people
>socialism working

Socialism has failed EVERY SINGLE time it has been tried.

Capitalism and Fascism? Very reliable. Fail some times, but most times it brings countries out of poverty and results in massive technological expansion.


Moral of the story: it is not a sin to kill a communist.

>>132067482
So what you're saying is the government would have complete control over how much gets distributed since your average commietard isn't going to be capable of doing it. What exactly is stopping the elites from cutting the distributions and keeping the majority of the items for themselves?

>inb4 muh gulags
You can't outgun the government that holds all the resources and power since you become dependent on those resources to survive

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>>132067815

Communism is the ultimate politically correct ideology.

>>132066824
>I understand you think it is scary if you don't see the communist society with good eyes, you think a stateless, moneyless and classless society is something bad.
A stateless, moneyless and classless society isn't something bad, it's something stupid.

It can literally not be achieved. If you can point to one modern country that has achieved this on a national scale, I'm all ears.

You know, I would love it if everyone in the world just held hands and sang Kumbaya, but the history of ALL LIFE on Earth, on both a macro and a micro scale, has been one of conflict for limited resources.

The difference between commies and everyone else is that commies think that they can have a "stateless" society, where the local communes wouldn't be overrun by the first warlord to form an army. They think that a moneyless society is possible, where people wouldn't try to shirk work or steal from the commune. Or if they did, that there would be some sort of fair justice enacted without any quantitative measure of value for what they did versus what they took (such as.... money). They think it's possible to have a classless society, where communes that worked harder wouldn't become more successful, or that those members of the community who are most admired wouldn't rise to a more prominent status. And they think that this will somehow all "just work" without any sort of central organization (which would require a leadership class).

the only thing that's scary is that people believe in this stupidity.

>>132067239

It makes no sense to give general AI to robots unless you literally want trouble.

>>132067622
>so, not even productive work can have an objective definition in the marxist worldview.
Actually yes it is. Marxists quantify work into socially necessary labour hours. "Socially necessary" being the operative phrase.

>So yeah, apparently, if I buy tools with the fruits of my own labor
But you don't buy tools with the fruits of your labour, you buy tools with money. Which workers get for selling the fruits of their labour, usually in the form of wage labour.

> that one person deserves all the thousands it took to employ him just because he showed up there for a job offer?
No one deserves anything.
What they person should want however in their self-interest is emancipation from wage labour and the entirety of the fruits of their labour. Just how the bourgeoisie should want in their self-interest the perpetuation of wage labour and the fruits of his workers labour.

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>>132067815
>the end of exploitation, the end of slavery
Meaningless words, why should I oppose exploitation or slavery? Do they even exist?

>>132067362
>If there's no soul, the world is entirely materialistic and mechanistic,

Yes it is.

>>132067675
>ou assume that humans want equality and freedom
Don't you? You actually want to live subservient to some pieces of shit? You really want to keep on living under Soros thumb?

>>132067787
>where half of the population can objectively debunk everything you believe in.
90% of /pol/ doesn't even know the difference between socialism and communism kek

>>132067823
>Socialism has failed EVERY SINGLE time it has been tried.
It was pretty successful under Sankara

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sankara

>>132067486

I don't think it is, many here find it offensive.

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>>132068156
>many people on politically incorrect board find issue with forcing of politically correct ideologies

Communism is the ultimate politically correct ideology.

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>>132068089
>You actually want to live subservient to some pieces of shit?
You might think they're pieces of shit, but there are some people I'd be find living subservient to. Same with most people.

>>132068071
Read the rest of the post.

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>>132067841
>So what you're saying is the government would have complete control over how much gets distributed since your average commietard isn't going to be capable of doing it. What exactly is stopping the elites from cutting the distributions and keeping the majority of the items for themselves?
Read this book.

Basically we should establish federations of direct-democratic communes small enough that all the people living inside have an adequate platform to vote and debate about whatever issues are relevant while also interconnected enough that they are able to co-operate with other communes in the federation.

Not unlike the original concept of Soviets or the structure of the Paris Commune.

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Remember:

Communism is the ultimate politically correct ideology.

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Dank Communism Memes
mad keks

http://riggedit.com/2017/06/27/communism-memes/

>>132068328
Wouldn't it be good if we could choose those persons?

>>132068468
>having 5 equal images
>not being autist

Choose one

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>>132067996
>faces a direct debunk of your entire ideology
>tries to shift the conversation to something completely unrelated
mfw
It must really suck to be a commie; to encounter cognitive dissonance wherever you go everyday. Your mind must be utter confusion.

And yeah, trying to shift the discussion is not going to work. Without measurement of value, there's no economic growth, there's no method of investments, there's no method of progress and distribution. We have systems that have no concern with being capitalistic which utilize auctioning and similar methods to determine values, because it is the only way of doing it.

Competitive exchange is the way of allocating resources in a system where each individual note has competitive interests. It is so damn obvious, only commies can't see it. A single little robot can't get more metal for free, it comes at the expense of another losing metal, as I said, communism will never work. Not even in the distant future; the "Star Trek" lore is just fantasy.

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>>132068662
And still:

Communism is the ultimate politically correct ideology.

>>132041079
I Kekd

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>>132068565

>>132041852
>2015
>oldfag
dont forget to sage kiddos

>>132068362
>Basically we should establish federations of direct-democratic communes small enough that all the people living inside have an adequate platform to vote and debate about whatever issues are relevant while also interconnected enough that they are able to co-operate with other communes in the federation.
That's funny, since I seem to recall that any time people wanted free and fair elections in a commie country, that tended to end with a lot of dead working class.

There's no such thing as "direct democracy". Any country that has, in the past 50 years, claimed to be a "direct democracy" was really just a socialist dictator who used rigged votes to bypass their country's congress.

Furthermore, even if we assume an ideal system with no corruption, we cannot assume that the mob rule will have any adequate idea of how to rule itself, and organize a complex, planned economy entirely though popular vote.

You seriously don't see how stupid this is?

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>>132068662
>Wouldn't it be good if we could choose those persons?
Not necessarily. 80% of the stuff people vote on are things on which they know almost nothing, and shouldn't be allowed to vote on.

>>132068328
You are cuckold.

In the unironic non-meme sense.

>>132050954
no it isn't. money is a proxy for production

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>>132068828
>There's no such thing as "direct democracy"
Switzerland.

>>132067362

I do have such impetus certainly, and my morals are based in ethical evaluations my brain does.

i cannot comprehend how anyone would unironically advocate for communism
any time it has ever been attempted it has failed miserably
its not real communism because real communism is an impossible ideology that ignores human nature

kill

>>132068966

cuckolds lumpenproles need to go too.

>>132068844
>unironically being happy that people make decisions by him

Let me guess, you are better then the sheeple


>>132068828
>Any country that has, in the past 50 years, claimed to be a "direct democracy"

source?

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>>132068966
You're the guy who wants to take other's shit for free without working.

>>132069036

Do you believe humanity has a positive future as it is?

By the way , you are referring to a socialist state that lasted less than it should have

>>132068966
Satan plz, all societies follow a hierarchy. The only question is whether the hierarchy is corrupt or noble; competent or inept. The goal isn't to have anarchy (which will inevitably become rule of the strong over the weak), but to have a society where the most just and able rule.

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>>132069076
>Let me guess, you are better then the sheeple
I think people should be allowed to vote on what they know. You're a doctor, you get to vote for the healthcare policies of the nation. You're a pilot, you get to determine the FAA regulations. You're a gun owner, you get to determine the gun laws. So on and so forth.

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>>132068038
>>"not even productive work can have an objective definition in the marxist worldview"
>Marxists quantify work into socially necessary labour hours. "Socially necessary" being the operative phrase.

>>"if I buy tools with the fruits of my own labor"
>But you don't buy tools with the fruits of your labour, you buy tools with money

>>"To each according to their needs"
>But no one deserves anything.
>and what you want on an impulsive ground should mean what you should shill for; because you are a valueless nihilistic worm
At least that one was honest.^
But I think you don't really realize how much you overexposed your true self with that; admitting you have no values and desire for a sound society but instead following just your superficial impulses. That's why people like Jordan Peterson refer to marxism as something closer to mental illness than a real advocacy in the economy.

This is one of those times where even arguing with the person is difficult out of how delusional and contradicting everything is.

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One extra reminder:

Communism is the ultimate politically correct ideology.

>>132064288
I hate it when poor, drug using, often festival going losers that they have no option but to cling on to their false, unrealistic optimism of "how the world should be man"

>>132069098

Other people shit for free is what a master does to a slave by the way, so you learn now how slavery can actually exist.

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>>132069203
They're just pissed off that they ended up at the bottom of the hierarchy that they oppose.

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>>132069203
>but to have a society where the most just and able rule.
Behold, the paragon of justice and harbringer of virtue!

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>>132069320
So then don't be a slave you cuck.

>>132069076
>source?
Venezuela, Libya, etc.

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>>132035370
W H A T I F I T O L D Y O U C O M M U N I S M D O E S N O T W O R K ? ? ?

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>>132069328
This guy was sounds like the paragon you're looking for.

>>132069323
>They're just pissed off that they ended up at the bottom of the hierarchy
Aren't you?

Arent you at least a bit mad that people who are way worse and less capable then you will never work a day in their lives and be more successful then you.

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>>132069328
Yes, the western financial elite clique is an example of an injust hierarchy. That's the type of "leader" that Hitler and Mussolini fought against, and that Stalin allied with.

>>132069373
>Veneezuela, Libya claim to be direct democracies

What? Venezuela has a Parliament. Do you even know what a direct democracy is?

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>>132069536
>Aren't you?
No. Why would I be? Anyone who knows how to put in a hard days work can end up at least in the middle of the hierarchy.

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>>132069473
Because you are a edgy american teenager

>>132069637
>Anyone who knows how to put in a hard days work can end up at least in the middle of the hierarchy.
>smart and capable people who work their asses off can, maybe, reach the middle of hierarchy

Meanwhile she is top of the hierarchy

>>132069723

lol, fuck bernie then.

>>132069636
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Venezuelas-Communal-Councils-Direct-Democracy-Explained-20151218-0021.html

I know exactly what I'm talking about. Do you?

Reread the part where I said:
>Any country that has, in the past 50 years, claimed to be a "direct democracy" was really just a socialist dictator who used rigged votes to bypass their country's congress.

>>132068828
"free and fair elections" according to the capitalist west are not free, nor fair. They are partisan "representative" "democracies". We should not have parties, any representatives we do have (which should be minimal) should be instantly recallable and the only way to have real democracy is with direct democracy. Which brings me to my next point.

>There's no such thing as "direct democracy".
Uhm yes there is, there are historical examples of direct democracies not just in socialist movements but also in bourgeois ones like Switzerland and early New England. This is not some pie in the sky dream, this is real. And with the technology we have now in the 21st century west it could be easier than ever.

> Any country that has, in the past 50 years, claimed to be a "direct democracy" was really just a socialist dictator who used rigged votes to bypass their country's congress.
And this is why I'm telling you to read that book, Bookchin bases his logic on criticism of 20th socialism and earlier with identifications of where it went wrong and considerations of where it went right. During which you will find scathing criticism of the Eastern Bloc. Thus the importance of immediately recallable administrators.

>we cannot assume that the mob rule will have any adequate idea of how to rule itself, and organize a complex, planned economy entirely though popular vote.
But we can, for what is on the table it is immediately relevant to everyone participating in it - they are going to have a better idea of their needs and concerns than a career politician.

Bookchin makes a great remark on this. That it's absurd to expect congress, largely a meeting of lawyers, to have better expertise on the economy than a diverse community that includes people from all professions - all of which are a part of the economy.

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>>132069203
>The goal isn't to have anarchy
Yeah it is.

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>>132069829
>Meanwhile she is top of the hierarchy
I agree that she shouldn't be at the top of the hierarchy, heck she should be killed for that kind of behavior, but living my life envious of other people instead of working to improve my own situation just sounds pathetic. Maybe someday people like her will be punished, but I'm not gonna bring everybody down to the lowest level like with communism in order to bring that about.

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>>132069250
Not an argument.

>>132069837
>http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Venezuelas-Communal-Councils-Direct-Democracy-Explained-20151218-0021.html
You literally googled "Venezuela" and "direct democracy"

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHHA

How can Venezuela be a direct democracy and have a Parliament?

>I know exactly what I'm talking about.
Obviously not

>Direct democracy (also known as pure democracy)[1] is a form of democracy in which people decide (e.g. vote on, form consensus on) policy initiatives directly.

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>>132069832

Communism is the ultimate politically correct ideology.

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>>132041079

>>132035370

>no state
>goods produced to fill a social need.

Who decides what a "social need" is and decides who must produce what? Hard mode: you aren't allowed to have a state because you are a retarded Marxist.

>>132069871
Nice post man but communism is the ultimate politically correct ideology.

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>>132070101
>but living my life envious of other people
I'm not envious (well, maybe just a little). I am mad that people like she will never have to work a day in her life, and still be richer and more powerful then people who worked since they were 9 years old and never took 1 day of vacation.

>being critical of capitalism means you are communist

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>>132070534
>being critical of capitalism means you are communist
I'm not suggesting that, I'm critical of capitalism too.

>>132069871
>"free and fair elections" according to the capitalist west are not free, nor fair.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956
Freer than those of communism. Thousands of Hungarian proletariat were massacred because they wanted free and open elections, where they could elect politicians who weren't communist.

One example among many.

> We should not have parties,
http://www.democracy-building.info/switzerlands-political-parties.html

Political parties exist in Switzerland. Also, I find it amusing that you use a capitalist country as an example of a "direct democracy", a capitalist country with political parties, a president, a federal assembly, departments, etc.

>But we can, for what is on the table it is immediately relevant to everyone participating in it - they are going to have a better idea of their needs and concerns than a career politician.
No, people will just vote themselves more largess every opportunity they get with no sense at all for the long term. They will run themselves deep into debt and economic collapse.

What's happening now in Illinois will paint a good picture of the future of any country that thinks its a good idea to redistribute wealth from blue collars who work for a living to useless layabouts who vote for a living.

>>132069549
Who the fuck would consider Hitler an example of a just and deserving leader?

He was a failed shitty artist that came to power by gaming parliamentary politics and caused the most disastrous war in history. He was also a manlet.

>>132070667
Are you really repeating all those politically correct points everyone heard already?

Communism is the ultimate politically correct ideology.

>>132070631
Then why do you make a dichotomy capitalism/communism in your posts?

>>132070642
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusto_Pinochet

>>132070208
>How can Venezuela be a direct democracy and have a Parliament?
I realize you're from a poor third world country with no access to education, so I'll inform you now, that in politics, different branches of government engage in power struggles, and often dictators will take power by completely marginalizing other branches of government so they exist in name only, while reorganizing other branches so that all power flows directly through them.

For instance, Adolf Hitler was both President and Chancellor of Germany.

"Hurr durrr, how can Hitler be a dictator if Germany had a democratic Chancellery"

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>>132070810
>Then why do you make a dichotomy capitalism/communism in your posts?
I'm mostly just attacking communism, because as flawed as capitalism is, communism is so much worse. That being said, I'm a third positionist.

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>>132070667
>Commie spouting anti-Hitler propaganda
Hitler did nothing wrong. Read Mein Kampf for an idea of why people admire him even to this day.

>>132039297
>Even my Rabbi

Stopped reading there. Commies prove yet again that they are just jews that don't want to hide behind capitalism.

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>there are people who still want communism to happen after it died out in a two year period on its own weight nearly 30 years ago
You idiots had a century to make this shit work and it never did, just give it up.

>>132070966
wow, you completely fled the discussion at hand, and made elementary school level political commentary!

>>132070988
Fascism is capitalism on steroids