What's wrong with communism?

>>131993515
humans are based on greed.

>>131993515
Both are jewish

>>131993593
Sounds like something a nigger world say

>communism
>a global society where EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL decides to provide for every one else, eliminating the need for money, state, and social hierarchy, and everyone just live peacefully together

It's OBVIOUSLY the perfect. How the fuck is communism not an utopia? It's exactly because it's so fucking out of touch with reality, that it's just not practical.

it could work but would take a lot of careful consideration to be successful. maybe far in the future when most jobs are automated

>>131993515
yes, it really is a much fairer life in the best korea than in the us

>turning 95% of the population into a disposable slave worker for the benefit of the (((state)))

Gee, I wonder what is wrong with communism.

>>131993515
the only thing that communism and socialism do is make the rich poor

and the poor starve to death, all the while making the people who run it insanely wealthy.

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>>131993515

people are naturally greedy. therefore to have communism all the people must give up their freedom to the government. and because people are naturally greedy, the people running that government fuck the people over. add to that the fact that when there's no incentive to work people aren't motivated to. so you basically have to enslave people and force them to work for next to nothing or send them off to the gulag. so people only put in the bare minimum to stay alive because there's no incentive to do anything more. capitalism isn't perfect, but it's infinitely better than communism. because communism is for retards.

Supply is limited. Markets and prices allocate limited supply.

>>131993515
look at that fat fuck and tell me his life is more fair than that skinny worker next to him

>>131993515

That korcean on the left certainly looks happy his murderous overlord/quasi deity came by to inspect the job he's doing. "Zug Zug!" as they say and what not, stiff spine under the lash cheerio pip pip.

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>>131993515
north korea is far, far from communism. it's literally more fascist than communist.

>>131993515
>Hiding your flag
>Making these threads
>Sage

Show me an instance of fair communism and you'd be less laughable.

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>>131993515

>>131993515
Fair in a sense that everyone is poor. It's the lazy man's ideology.

Kills too many people. Good for the upper elite, bad for the people. But call it "people's" Republic, army etc. and they sometimes fall for it.

>>131993871
>b but that wasn't real communism.
We get these threads every few months when the indoctrinated kids graduate.

>>131993515

It never becomes communism.

>>131993515

>fairer

The world isn't fair, nothing about it is. That's what many leftists don't understand. Every time they attempt to enforce egalitarianism, they say "We're trying to even the playing field" and claim that they are elevating the weak to the same level as the strong. Only issue is that it's impossible, evolution made sure of that. It starts with "fairness" and "equality", and when they realize that they can't achieve that without taking the lives and livelihood of the strong, the only remaining action is pretty straightforward.

No two humans are ever equal in any one task. The sooner you realize that, the sooner the strong and capable can create new technologies, new methods and new works that make the lives of the weak better than any life that can be created by tearing down the strong and in that action: dooming themselves.

>>131993515
what the hell is that?

>>131993515
The worker on the left wishes he could eat that. That's communism.

>>131993515
Look at the weight of the clearly malnourished worker and the plump benevolent "leader". Communism in theory is an intention to give ownership to the worker but everytime has been used as a method to dispose of intellectual resistance and expand government into a class divide far greater than capitalism could ever conceive.
Does capitalism have flaws? Of course but capitalism does not exceed government, the ideal of capitalism is strictly economic theory with as much as the government allows, the ideal of communism is government theory with so much as the economy allows.
When chambers of commerce got together in the SSR do you believe they discussed the tenants of Marxism? Of course not, they discussed profitable transactions on a price cost probability and what would deem most useful to a world market, when you understand that communism is simply used to distance government from the peoples and "seize the means of production" as Karl Marx put it, is when you understand that Marx was nothing but a mouth piece for the Rothschild political gambit and the "workers" revolution was used to sew the largest economic disparity in human history but those poor saps didn't know any better, the fruits of their labor stolen from them for the growth of an all controlling government entity that went nation to nation dealing the most wicked venom as a cure all to the least of men, only to be slaughtered in the oncoming purges when the corporate and state became one entity completing the Jewish god of Mammon for the whole world to bare witness.

>>131994384
It's grease, have you never worked on something mechanical?

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>>131993515
>no individual freedom
>no personal properties
>everybody is a literal slave to the system
>it's totally against human nature
of all retarded and non humane political systems it's the most retarded and cruel by far

>>131993515
I'm not interested in mass starvation or mass genocide.

>>131993515
>the only motivation to become a commie isn't greed and envy
keep telling yourself that

>>131993515
>What's wrong with communism?

Everything.

>>131994531
yes but i dont think i ever did see grease like that more like dark orange

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>>131993515

OP is clearly dumb and uneducated

>>131993515
>you aren't satisfied with current situation
>you work harder
>gov't takes away your money
>you worked harder, but got nothing out of it
>nobody works hard
>nobody works, because government will help you anyway
>eternal worldwide nigger ghetto

>>131994691
couldn't have said it better

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>>131993515

>>131993881
Sounds like capitalism

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>>131994797
Posting another redpill for good measure.

>>131994980
>rich guy left the country
well duh, then we should have murdered them all to get their monies.

>rich fag dead
>== monies + another psycho gone
win-win

>>131995168
Fine dumbass,since you are obviously to much of a mouthbreathing retard to understand why your failure of system will never work,I will very carefully explain it to you.

Imagine this: You & your hypothetical coworker Dan are working the same job at the same company.Since this company is highly successful,employees can potentially get paid very high amounts of money.Because you are very good & efficient at your job,you get paid 125$ and hour,you also get lots of benefits,paid leave,and all sorts of financial security nets that the company pays for. Dan,on the other hand,is lazy,unproductive,terrible at his job,frequently shows up late,and is a huge cunt to other employees,including you. Because of this,Dan only gets paid 25$,no benefits,no paid vacation,and constantly works overtime to make up for his lost hours.

Under a capitalist society,this is what would happen,but under a communist society,which is built on economic equality,this is what would happen: First,your salary gets cut by 50$ and is added to Dan's salary,bringing both of your salary's to 75$ an hour. But thats not all! Oh no,Dan ALSO gets to have half of your benefits,because this company is now under communist rule,and everything must be equal.

Do you think its fair that Dan gets a big increase in wages and some fancy new benefits,even though he causes the company more harm that good? Do you think its fair that Dan should receive those benefits even though he did literally nothing to deserve getting that money? Do you think its fair that you should be brought down to a lower level simply because of people like Dan,a bottom feeding parasitic subhuman who treats you like dogshit,even though YOU'RE the reason he has such high wages in the first place.Do you think that is fair? DO you think that's right? Do you think that innocent people should suffer simply because you think you deserve more?

>>131993515
Commonism is fine if it's patriot communism like north korean, cuba, vietnam and greater kurdistan. If it's CONQUER AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE ABSORB EVERYONE, KILL ALL THOSE WHO OPPOSE US communism then it's shit tier.

>>131994090

Communism is for the people, not the communist

>>131993515
It's not fair to take from the smart and hardworking to the poor by force. And because there's no incentive to do more than the state mandated share it all goes to shit.

Also, funny how the millions of communists on reddit defend their retarded ideology by saying how capitalism has starved over a billion people worldwide, as if a child eating desert is killing a starving child on the other side of the world, while communism can't even save starving people from other countries because they're too busy starving themselves.

OP, you clearly have more privileges than a homeless person in Congo, if you really want to help there's plenty of ways to do it that don't even involve the state or an angry mob taking your belongings at gunpoint. Stop being a nigger and go help them out with your own time and effort if you really care that much, don't threaten others to do the same.

>>131993515
>putting the starving guy on the edge of the picture frame to try and hide his skeleton arms.
There is no peace and happiness in that guy's life, if he's even still alive by now.

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>>131993515
Humans are not equal.

>>131997631
That's where you falling for it, kid. It's just words. The people actually are killed or impoverished

>>131994049
I liked it, anon.

>>131993515
>put a tyrant into power
>ruin the economy
>kill millions of people
>what's so bad about communism goys?

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OBVIOUS JOKE THREAD

The scariest thing about communism is that it doesn't work and always inevitably deteriorates.
The scariest thing about facism on the other hand, is that it works too well. People don't like to be reminded that their obedience is what helps create greatness. It takes a grand leviathan. Not an egalitarian commune. The strong will always prevail and the hierarchy benefits our nature.

>>131993515
>flag checks out
Also look at how tense that worker looks, like he knows that if he smiles he's done for

>>131993515

Basically, if we get rid of the president and let the supreme court run everything, it would be fine.
They would need term limits though.
15 years, elections every 5, via Congressional votes but Congress needs term limits, too. 8 and 12 years, House and Senate.
Nothing shall override the length of term or its limits unless governing power is to be given to the generals.

Crazy thing is you don't actually have to kill the people to kill them. You do something "good" like kill all the sparrows who are "eating the grain". Old farmer warn you they eat bugs, you brush off silly old cout. Next thing you know got 40M+ dead from famine. Oh well you tried. Shrug shoulders, remain communist hero, move on.

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>communism

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>>131998218
>The scariest thing about facism on the other hand, is that it works too well. People don't like to be reminded that their obedience is what helps create greatness.
That's probably one of the truest things I've ever read. Fascism just sounds mean, it purposefully includes an authoritarian state, expects absolute loyalty to the nation, takes away democracy, and enforces hierarchy. Very few people think that fascism sounds as pleasant as communism.

Yet you look throughout history at what has actually worked, and its clear that fascism is the tried and true system. Hell, half the reason fascism adores eagles and fasces so much is because much of it is based on the Roman Empire, one of the greatest, most influential, and longest lasting empires to ever exist.

>>131993690
Its true, If not for greed, we wouldnt exist

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Communists are fucking insane psychopaths that killed millions of people.

They claim to fight for the working class, when in reality they are all the children of rich upper class people with no connection whatsoever to the working class (which is overwhelmingly right wing by the way). These are extremely dangerous individuals with strange unhinged ideas about the world.

For the good of everyone, we need to stop them from taking power by whatever means possible

No incentive to work hard, manual labor gets paid equally as a scientist, why should the scientist work as hard if his labors are equal to that of a toilet cleaner, who could be half assing his job.

>>131995168
Communism is system that is designed to allow scum-suckers,parasites,the homeless,the worst that society has to offer to usurp the throne from people who worked hard to live the lifestyle that they did. It defies human nature,the desire to better than other people,to win,to have called yourself the victor. This is why Capitalism works,because it takes into account human nature & builds itself around it. It allows people who come from the middle class or even the poor to get rich if they have the intelligence & other desirable traits. Communism undoes all of that,it promotes the idea that you shouldn't try to be better that anyone else,even if they in reality aren't better that you.

Lets not forget to mention the fact that Communism,& by extension,socialism,is a born nation wrecker,name one country that has adopted some form of socialism or communism & not turned into a third world shithole. IF YOUR SYSTEM REQUIRES KILLING MILLIONS OF PEOPLE IN ORDER TO MAKE IT WORK,THEN IT IS A BAD SYSTEM.

No matter how badly you want it,Communism will never come to power,it will always fail because of human nature,it will destroy any nation it seeps into,it will always require killing people in order to make it "work".Get it through your thick skull you subhuman filth.

>>131993515
Paying people for their work isn't greed.

I don't give a shit about my life I'm tired of working 10 hours a day 6 days a week just for a two room apartment so fuck it I wanna try a communism again.

>>131993515
Communism has been proven wrong so many times in history and explained how and why on this board as well, that Marx would shave, get an haircut and change his name.

>>131998666
>Those trips
Thank you Satan.

You can thank the individuality meme for the widespread fear of facism despite its obvious utility. When you convince people that everyone is special, we begin to worship mediocrity and decay. The reality is that only a select few are strong and the rest are weak, subordinate to what should be a grand principle that cannot be denied. God and nation. Every civilisation tv at has denied a foundationalist principle and the dominance hierarchy will burn, it is tested time and time again.

>>131993515
No incentive to create. This is why Russia has such a poor economy; they're reaping the rewards of 100 communist years.

If people can't benefit from new ideas and products because the 'state' is the beneficiary, then why create anything at all? Capitalism creates opportunity because people are allowed to benefit, thus driving the movement. Communism has the state steal all profits.

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>>131998882
Because things couldn't get any worse right?

>>131993593
/thread

>>131998882
So you can work 10 hours a day, 6 days a week for a studio apartment?

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>>131993515

>>131994691
Pretty close to subsistence living, really.
"You pretend to pay me, I pretend to work."

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>>131993515

>>131993515
>More fair than capitalism

TOP FUCKING KEK

>>131998882
In communism, you would be working 12h a day 7 days a week with 10 people in one room apartment

>>131993515
there's nothing wrong with communism

most so-called communist countries are actually totalitarian military oligarchies dominating serf communes

that's the problem

>>131993515
communism is based on stupidity of the masses. As soon as one citizen realizes freedom allowed by capitalism then communism dies. Who wants to be delegated a piece of suspect meat when you know the party leaders are getting steak? Brother Josef used to say "All men are equal, some are just more equal than others."

>>131999084
...Mix gender?

>>131999138
>most so-called communist countries are actually totalitarian military oligarchies dominating serf communes
Why is that do you think? Is it because the communist society which is envisioned is actually an impossible utopian fantasy, and when structures of power are destroyed strong men seize control to make things work again?

How many times have we done this dance

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>>131993515
>What's wrong with communism?

Well, apparently it's "never been tried".

So either it's very difficult to set up or utter shite and dissavowed every time it fails.

>>131993593
The calculation problem makes greed irrelevant. Even if all people were subservient to the communist state, there's no way to figure out what to produce and in what quantity without markets and prices. The Soviets figured this out very quickly. Soviets tried what has been called "war communism" right away, which was basically full 100% communism and it was beyond disastrous. The reason why the Soviets were even able to survive somewhat as a communist country is because after abandoning full communism, the government would set prices and wages based on what prices in the west were.

>>131993515

thats some good lookin' goo

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lol

>>131993515
Fair. Fair. Fair.

In other words, luzers don't like the fact that I kick their sorry asses daily and want a powerful state to make it stop.

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It's actually the other way round.

Capitalism is not perfect (elites and nepotism), but it's way better than communism in fulfilling human needs.

>>131998666
Trips of truth

>>131999181
Wut?

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>>131993515

>>131993515
Its extremely wrong cause it is based on a setting where people know how they cheat the system and they dont do it.
Nobody is motivated to work at all let alone to excel at something.

>>131993515
ask people who live or have lived but then escaped from communist countries. you fucking piece of shit.

>>131993964

That's what happens with communism though.

It's like people arguing for communism forget that people do not uphold every principle that makes a system work. And if they did who's to say the next guy will?

The real problem with communism is the lack wiggle room you have to fight against it when it becomes corrupted, at least capitalist countries allow for some agency with their currency and class systems.

>>131993515
Make an estimate of the total muscle weight of the guy on the left and then make an estimate of the total weight of the guy on the right. If that doesn't give you a compelling argument against socialism. No amount of augmented brainpower will remove you from the delusional bubble, you are currently residing in. But then again you are just a fiat shill. saged

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>communism has killed millions of people
>that was state capitalism, that doesn't count!
>what does a true communist economic system look like
>forget what I said I LOVE state capitalism!
I'm starting to think """communists""" are all just edgy teenagers who want everybody to starve to death

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>>131993515
I really cant forgive the guy for killing qt asian Waifus

>>132000546
Fake news

>>131993515
Greed is a motivator. Greedy people always get to the top. The difference is, that those greedy people can't do as much once at the top in capitalism, as opposed to communism/socialism, where they can do anything.

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>>132000769
I know i know
North Korea best korea

>communism is so good they build walls to keep people from leaving

The cuban navy works overtime keeping those american migrants crossing the sea in their rafts away from communist paradise

>>131993515
>fair
>go to prison if you quit your job
OP = faggot

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>>131993515
Notice that fat guy on the right is happy?Now take a look of that skinny guy on the left who is not happy.Reminds me of capitalism....really gets the almonds activated...

>>131993593
/thread
Better than based on laysiness.

>>131993515
>authoritarianism
>fair
Well yeah I guess if everyone is eating 200g of rice a day then we're all equally human livestock. But your advocacy is i take away my freedom, which isn't fair, because you didn't use your freedom to its ultimate potential.

Every man has the natural right to freedom, self-defense, and private property. Communism is a usurpation of natural law under the context "he used his free time to find more berries than you and he's not even going to give you any, isn't that just unfair?"

>>131994901
That's the fucking point, they are both the same thing.

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>>131993515
It's based on competition, opportunity, and hard work you stupid pinko

>>131993593
fpdp

>>132001659
The main difference between the two is that in capitalism if you goof you get sacked, or your business goes bankrupt. With communism you get gulaged or die. You still have bosses and you are still told what to do. I'd rather lose my job than my life, so for me it's capitalism.

>>131997330
Kek, but anon, it's not about what's right, it's about what's fair :^) And he doesn't mean fair as in "equal work, equal pay" but more like as the post-modernist redefinition whereby now it is essentially just synonymous to "equality".

Arguing with these rubes has been obfuscated via perversion of language and meaning. You think you're having a debate on the same wavelength as each other but you're not, you're arguing separate things with the same words due to each party subscribing to a particular definition of a concept (right or wrong), and I feel this is the first and largest roadblock to all compromise and solution. The first step of any ethical debate should be to reach a common definition for terminology both parties can agree to and then formulate your arguments around the agreed upon definitions.

But this won't happen on the Internet. There's no contractual obligation to fulfill, such as to be a designated speaker at a panel in a public forum where you can't just Alt+F4 out of the argument when it starts to stagnate.

But who am I? Don't listen to me, I'm just some fucking leaf.

>more fair
>not being able to keep fruits of your own labor
>being forced to work job government gives you
>speak out and be jailed
>try to leave and be executed

Bruh, capitalism has done more formthe world's poor than communism has done for anyone. Do you hate freedom? George Washington should rise from his grave and kill you.

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>>132002434
I don't like either, I wish there a system to where we could maybe SOMEHOW be all equal and get whatever we want without have some jerkoff sending people into a war.

>>132002579
Forewarning: George Washington will soon be under attack. You see how they're trying to tear down confederate monuments because "m-muh slavery"? Well, then next step is to tear down and invalidate people who owned slaves (Washington), and by discrediting them I'm sure it's reasonable to expect the constitution to be attacked next, seeing as it's basically an article of oppression written by cishet fucking white males who owned slaves, and since their ideas cannot be valid then certainly their founding ideals and principles and documents are equally invalid.

Time will tell I suppose, but I give your "George Washington" arguments about 2 years to live. I suppose it really depends on the new sociopolitical climate Trump fosters approaching midterms or reelection, but I don't think he has the ability to cool off the toddlers who are determined to shit in their own pants and squirm around smearing it all over themselves whilst blaming it on the adults for not changing their diapers.

>>131993515
Life is not fair...get used to it.

>>132002923
Sounds like a pipe dream... like communism

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>>132003723
I'm just being idealistic, I know might not ever happen, but there could be a possibility that we get there one day.Unfortunately, we would be dead before it ever happens.

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>>131993515
>starving millions of your own countrymen so you and your privileged entourage can have a nice fun splishy splashy day at the waterpark
>not greed

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>>131993515

Moron.

>>131994049
nice work bro

>>132002503
bravo anon
>Arguing with these rubes has been obfuscated via perversion of language and meaning. You think you're having a debate on the same wavelength as each other but ...
them nelolingua masters

>>131993515
>based on greed
It's based on two people giving each other things they don't want in exchange for things they do want. Greed is a human flaw, not a flaw of capitalism.

>>131993515
People have a tendency to be both lazy and greedy. Capitalism encourages us to work harder to satisfy our greed. Communism encourages us to work just enough to stay out of trouble. Currently we are reaching a probably unsustainable inequality in wealth and will likely have some kind of reset.

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>>131993515
Because it's not Turanism. Duh!

>>131993515
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A
“Well first of all, tell me: Is there some society you know that doesn’t run on greed? You think Russia doesn’t run on greed? You think China doesn’t run on greed? What is greed? Of course, none of us are greedy, it’s only the other fellow who’s greedy. The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests. The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn’t construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn’t revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty you’re talking about, the only cases in recorded history, are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade. If you want to know where the masses are worse off, worst off, it’s exactly in the kinds of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear, that there is no alternative way so far discovered of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by the free-enterprise system.”

>>132004212
>>starving millions of your own countrymen so you and your privileged entourage can have a nice fun splishy splashy day at the waterpark
You have just explained to us the 1929 market crash. Bravo!


>>132002579
>>not being able to keep fruits of your own labor
Wageslaving explained
>>being forced to work job government gives you

Instead you are forced to work a job at Walmart or MacDonalds that your rent forces you.

And btw Communism is a stateless society

>speak out and be jailed
There were plenty of capitalist countries without free speech. Nazi germany comes to mind.

During the 50's supporting communist ideas publicly was a reason to be jailed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Act_trials_of_Communist_Party_leaders
Yes, one can't really compare this to what happened in USSR.

>>131993515
It's cute that you think Greed only exists in Capitalism.

Also, you've got the intelligence of a small child.

>>131993515
it makes people lazy and therefore poor

>>131994049
Trippy! Well done

>>132006842
If capitalists are so greedy then why are they happy that people keep some of YOUR fruits of labor without contributing?

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>>132008183
Because with capitalism, you too can eventually become the boss who earns the fruits of others without contributing.

Of course, I disagree with this, I think everybody should work, but you get the idea.

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>>131993964

Good points comrade, the capitalist swine never understand that as long as we keep defining communism only in terms of outcome, no amount of genocides, totalitarianism, famines and gulags can ever discredit the concept. Because it is just "a utopia of fairness and equality" after all, so the evil horrible dictatorships we keep bringing about are obviously indicative that it wasn't real socialism. MWHAHAAH thank god we were blessed with that (((high verbal intelligence))) otherwise people might call us on our murderous anti-human bullshit. Hail Stalin comrade!

>>131993845
So, exactly what we have right now under corporatist capitalism fueled by Jewish usurious banking? At least under communism everybody has a roof over the head and a meal on the table, something that's already a luxury in many ((developed)) capitalist countries.

markets are better at getting things to people than a centrally planned economy.

>>131993515

>4.5 billion years of organisms fighting to the death for scarce resources
>commies think eliminating scarcity and competition won't backfire

Even if communism worked, and it won't, because communism is a high powered status accumulator for white kids with self esteem issues, it still wouldn't work.

Its a pretty brutal stretch to think that the lower classes will suddenly organize into a cohesive economic machine of shared responsibility and reward, but beyond even THAT bullshit, the elimination of scarcity is biologically untenable. The closest we've ever come to post scarcity is the United States of America, and we are literally so prosperous that bourgeois white kids from the suburbs have to run around inventing problems based on things like fake genders and fake sexual orientations. /pol/ blames the coin clutchers, and to an extent there is a lot of damning evidence pointing at jewish malfeasance. But the reason westerners are susceptible to degeneracy in the first place is because we no longer have any serious environmental pressure weeding out those who can't hack it. Look up Calhoun's mouse utopia. Ultimately, the fulfillment of everyone's needs sends a population down the path of a behavioral sink. This does not allow us to improve ourselves. Meeting everyone's needs is dysgenic, and while I can tell you're a really deep and thoughtful and altruistic person motivated entirely by your own beneficence, you're also fucking retarded and deserve a helicopter ride.

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>>132009105
>corporatist capitalism
Not to be confused with fascist corporatism, which is more like National Syndicalism.

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>>131993515

Best Korea is the fucking greatest! Anyone who is communist must go there to bask in its glory! What are you waiting for, Anon? Please, pack your bags and find your new home in the utopia of the proletariat?

Oh, you mean you're too scared to practice what you preach? You mean you'd rather live in this capitalist hellhole than to live your life in paradise? Why is that? Oh, you're a gigantic faggot hypocrite that doesn't actually believe this shit but is more than willing to preach that we should live under it. Pic related.

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>>132008950
Debate me faggot. Name one good thing about communism, and I'll tell you how it's fucked up the lives of a sixth of humanity that's ever lived.

If you want me to explain why communist theory is retarded using your own sources, we can do it that way instead.

>>131998137
>>132006259
>>132007869
fucking spic new faggots

>>131999181
Not, unless they were families, so it wouldn't even help you get laid

>>132000421
I think we really need to put to bed this Communism/Capitalism divide, because this joke's getting old.

Human nature 101: we want to reap the rewards of other people's hard labour.
>wow, you're really productive!
>my party caters especially to people like you!
>our numbers aren't that great so we need more members; there's a whole lotta unproductive people out there
>we're going to need you to be more productive as we buy the votes of these less productive people
>>d-don't worry, they're just useful idiots
>oh cool we're in power now - we still need you to be productive; we need everyone to do their part and so we're going to give those unproductive idiots some of your productivity. From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs, n all that stupid shit.
>>we can't very well piss off our main base of support just to appease you, you shit
>okay, I see you're no longer as productive as you were. We're looking at the charts and graphs and you're not pulling your weight anymore, so we hired this unproductive psycopath to sit here and hold a gun to you and your family in the hopes that this is the kick-start you need to start being more productive
>>a whole lotta people died
>well, we have far too many leaches and far too few producers - we need to rev up those Gulacs and even those numbers
>>let's kill off all those oppose us - of which are those who are the productive, since we've royally fuck them, their family, their time, their energy, their production, and their trust
>o well, let's swap out our old productive loyalists with the voting cannon fodder - clearly that'll jump-start the productivity
>>famine
We shouldn't be repeating the same stupid mistakes of [enter in South Africa, Soviet Union, Venuzella, et cetra], because we've already seen this happen.

At least in Capitalism people are incentivised and not forced.

>>131993593
It's this, it really is this simple and brutal.

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>>132007589
>>Nazi Germany
>>Capitalist

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>>131993515

>>132002923

People are not equal by nature.

>>131993515
>It's obviously not perfect, but it seems more fair than capitalism, which is based on greed.

> See the picture of the fat dictator and the skinny low class worker
> Still believes this is "fair".

It's like they don't even get it.

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>>131993515

>>131993515
A lot of things honestly, and I say this as a communist.

It is very unstable, hard to maintain, it has no "repair" mechanism as capitalism does. After the first wave of revolutionaries it always collapses into tyranny or totalitarianism. I could go on and critique the current communist models for days. They all failed

But on the other hand, it's the only morally acceptable system, and just because it doesn't work (now) doesn't mean we should abandon the idea altogether. Yes capitalism might work and might me stable, but capitalism serves only itself, so what's the good of it for me ? It makes the country rich but the people poor

Many people here miss the point about the communism vs capitalism fight and go on celebrating capitalism because "it works" but fail to see that capitalism work but not in their favor. And I will keep on supporting marxist ideas even if they don't work because
"Either we will break free or we will die trying"
I'd rather see my system collapse but know it was morally right than to keep it quiet and live as a literal slave under capitalism

the fact we haven't exterminated all of them yet

>>131993700
>simplifying one of the most complex economic systems to a single sentence and than analyzing that sentence to prove it is stupid

Jeez man

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>>132013199
>it's the only morally acceptable system
Please elaborate

>>132013199

For equality of outcome to exist, there must be unequal treatment, which is inherently tyranny

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>>131993593
>flag
Checks out. Fpbp

>>132013199
>self righteously ruin the lives of everyone including yourself
>hey at least we're not capitalist's slaves
it's as if you don't even realize you're a slave in communism as well, doomed to work yourself to death for the benefit of those who don't deserve it, this time instead of rich oligarchs, it is the dregs of society

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Equality is a retarded meme. Human beings are inherently different to each other. Have you ever met identical twins? Have their proficiency in everything ever been similar?

So if genetically identical people aren't equal, how are you going to make entire populations equal? You need to deal with the reality that some people work hard as fuck, don't get paid as much as the top branch of Apple, and often they aren't unhappy because of it and are happy with their lot. Some other guy works less, makes less money but he's okay with getting less money anyway because he doesn't care about consuming less, and he may even end up with more money at the end of the year for spending more wisely.

In fact if we lived in a truly equal place, where everyone shares the same tastes and so on, the world would be an extremely boring place to live in, variety is the spice of life and all that jazz. We NEED people who specialize in different areas no matter if they're going to earn less just to make society work. Learn to deal with reality, which is an alien concept for communists. Or just move to Cuba/North Korea already, you hypocritical piece of garbage.

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>>132013461
It seeks to please to society as a whole, to remove unnecessary inequality and create a meritocratic egalitarian society

In socialist societies everyone earns equal to what they deserve, or to what their labour was worth. You can't trick you way into wealth by having rich parents or getting lucky, none is entitled to basic things by their birth such as health, basic living conditions and education and at the start everyone is equal. What your life will be entirely depends on you and how you will perform in life

It is the only society that strives to be directly controlled and managed by the people, no gods, no kings only people.

I really don't know why fascists oppose marxist ideas so much, being fascist has nothing to do with your views on organizing economy. I might despise fascists, but that's not because I'm a commie

>>131993515
>From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs

"Why should I do any work? Someone else will pick up the slack." Once half the population develops this mentality, society is fucked

>>132014645
I'd rather die as a slave of society than a slave of some rich fuck. I don't want my entire life work to vain and spend on the wellbeing of some oligarchs, I want to contribute to the society and the people since those are the only entities I feel I own something

It takes a whole lot of self sacrifice to be a marxist which 90% of you fags lack

>>132014840
>In socialist societies everyone earns equal to what they deserve
Who defines what someone deserves?

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>>132015158
What if society is corrupt, out to kill you or filled to the brim with undesirables? How then would you justify dying for such a society that will just as likely gulag you once the revolution is complete? How will you even get your worker's revolution in the first place if the very thing you fight for is rotten, let alone removing the upper class?

>>132015259
depends, if it's a planned economy, the government, or the union of soviets

The idea I find the most rightful is that the government is replaced by the union of Soviets (what U.S.S.R tried to do but eventually failed)
Every branch of industry has it's own Soviet, a workers union and every factory has it's own representatives that are responsible to the right Soviet. In these locals representatives people are elected democratically and they serve the same purpose capitalist owners do in capitalism, they manage the factory/business and pay their workers accordingly. The only difference is they are changed every few years and the decisions they make are democratic. The individual Soviets are like ministries that are there to fund these individual buissneses if needed


>>132015807
>the "what if" argument
What if the aliens suddenly invade earth and start brainwashing everyone into being evil and bad, what then commie ? Check m8, capitalism: gorrilion, Communism:0

It all comes down to your philosophical view of the matter, I believe the people may at times be corrupt and evil, not worth fighting for, but the society as a collection of all individuals is worth fighting for, if you believe it is bad, than you can consider fighting for the better society


>the picture
I get that you don't like that refugees are leaving their families and cowardly running away, but U.S or Russia are definitely not there to help Syria

>>132013479
Why do you believe that to be the case ? Quoting some edgy shit isn't an argument

>>132016381
>depends, if it's a planned economy, the government
Are there any cases, where a planned economy has 'worked' for longer periods of time?

>the government is replaced by the union of Soviets
Why would the goverment voluntary give up power? Has that ever happened?

>>131993515
>greed
No capitalism is based on voluntary exchange through mutual self-interest. Greed is being excessively self-interested to the point where you are directly or indirectly harming others or even yourself in the long term.
Cooperation is a more successful evolutionary strategy than excessive greed. People only evolved to cooperate and share with others because it worked better than the alternative.
Saying greed and self interest are the same thing is like saying gluttony is the same as eating.

>>132014680
The point of communism is not to make everyone completely equal in every sense retard, the point of communism is to make everyone equal at the beginning, to make sure everyone starts with education, liberty, health, democracy and justice. What will you do after that and how will you use that, entirely up to you

When commies refer to equality they refer to the equality of earning money and succeeding in life, not the literal equality you find in vocabularies. Everyone knows people are different, we're not as retarded as you, we believe that just because people are different doesn't mean they can be born into wealth or that they could legally exort other people

>>131993593
>>131998741
see>>132017088

>>132001287
Haha, silly anon, it's not prison, it's just forced labor between 4 walls with several armed guards pointing their gun at you, and being given nothing to eat, it's completly different, because it's communism!

>>132017245
>the point of communism is to make everyone equal at the beginning
But people who are more intelligent, eager, or even 'lucky' will wind up with more than the average person and the next generation will have rich parents again, ceasing the dream of an equal start.

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>>132013199
>Morally acceptable

Morals based on what? Commies are atheist, they don't have any objective morality. All of their points devolve into "muh feelings"

Not to mention that slaughtering millions and enslaving the rest of the population is pretty amoral by most standards.

>>131993515

>based on greed

it's based on the premise that your life and labor belong to you, and no one can take it from you except through free exchange

Communism is based on the premise that your life and labor belong to the collective group, and force can be used to extract both from you for that group's benefit by all-knowing philosopher kings.

Communism and all group-centric ideologies are evil if such a thing as evil can exist

>>132017046
>Are there any cases, where a planned economy has 'worked' for longer periods of time?

I'd say Yugoslavia, that's where I come from and where I was born. It had it's unique system where the government existed just as it exists in any other country today, but every factory, industry or business had it's own worker union that managed the factory/business and was responsible to the correct ministry. Smaller businesses were allowed to exist independently (bakers, dentists, car mechanics and such ...) . All major factories were owned by the state and responsible to the state, but were sort of independent from it as the state could not influence the decisions they make, that was up to the union of workers and they were put on some semi-free market and were allowed to compete between each other
Unfortunately Yugoslavia collapsed but that had nothing to do with it's economy since it was quite stable, but with rising tensions between Serbs and Croats that existed for centuries and just culminated. Everyone wanted independence

>Why would the goverment voluntary give up power? Has that ever happened?
It probably wouldn't, the people themselves need to realize this and arm up to overthrow the government, and establish whatever the people feel is the best. I don't think this has ever happened to full extend but there ware many examples of socialists being democratically elected, though I don't remember them ever completely changing the system of value. Unfortuantely these things need to happen violently and need to be done by people, since the governments won't just give out power, and the people need to overthrow it because otherwise it would be just a military coup with communism as a paravan
Example being the October revolution where people took arms and got the power and not some individual army that only seeked power for themselves. Unfortunately shortly after, Stalin happened. There are many more examples such as the Paris commune, Yugoslavia, Afhanistan...

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>>132017245
Waah waaah muh equality of opportunities. Listen retard, you can't make people equal even in that. Some people have parents who hire a teacher in their kid's spare times, some kids have deadbeat parents who don't care how well they're doing at school, don't care if their kid is doing drugs and so much more. A kid with a well structured family already has an enormous advantage to a kid with a destroyed family and your amazing utopia will not change that. In fact your political system is sure to destroy more families and cause more misery by pitting kids against their parents and overruling what parents think its best for their kids, while your filthy kind just want to use kids as canon fodder for the communist ruling elite.

Your public school system is a tool for manipulating young minds, who are forced to listen to your revolutionary, party-approved diatribe that has killed over 100 million people in the 20th century, about how Cuba is such a great place and whatnot.

>>132015158
you really have a poor bait going but i'll bite again, you're a slave to the party, you call other slaves while you deepthroat whoever the communist party elite anoints at the moment, you're the biggest slave of society since all you do is """"""work"""""" to put a group's elite in power while a normal person might start his own business and be his own master, even if you're employed you can leave your job and find a better paying one, try leaving your party's tight grasp on your entire life, you can't do that, you are their nice little pet who's there to repeat jargon all day everyday, the communist party owns you, faggot. The more you scream and kick the more the sound of your shackles and chains rattling are heard. Go do more protests after getting gibs from commie groups, what a hero of the workers you really are.

>slave of society
LOL you're just an expendable puppet of some commie piece of trash who's worth even less than you are

>>132017245

>make everyone equal

But people aren't equal, dipshit. People are smart and dumb, productive and lazy, beautiful and ugly. Why should they be made equal when they aren't?

>>131993515
What's wrong with greed

>>131993515
I'd explain it to you, but (((1 post by this ID)))

>>132018280

You need to get out of your socialist shithole and come to America, Huebro. You don't belong there and we need you up here.

>>132017868
Well yes, that is what happens in capitalism, at the beginning even in capitalism things tend to be really far, but as you said luckier and more intelligent people get to the top and the inequality raises with every generation

One of the important communist ideas is to eliminate that accumulation of wealth between the generations, not to allow people who have a lot of many to give too much of a special treatment to their children and to allow everyone always to have the same chance, those who are lucky, more intelligent and hardworking should earn more but their children should start at the same point where they did and that is 0 (the society should of course provide school, health, liberty and all other necessities to everyone, but after 18 you're on your own)

>>132016381
>you can consider fighting for the better society
You are fighting to create a "better" society where there is no incentive to perform, because whoever outshines the others and receives additional reward is obviously above the others. Again it always assumes that everyone is willing to participate in your classless society and work for the betterment of the people, of which this "infallible" ideal comes apart as it is simply impossible for every single human being to adhere to this doctrine without stripping them of free will. Who defines a "better society" anyway when commies are moralless atheists?

Next, you commies want everybody to given equal opportunity, and how would you justify different outcomes from an equal start resulting in different degrees of contribution? For example, A and B started off from the same economic and social position, A grows up to be a famous engineer and B flunked school to work as a janitor, how do you justify taking the wealth of others, even those from the ex-middle class, to give B an equal start when B becomes a useless bum? Would A be paid more or given more privileges from his inventions, or would he get the same shit as B? How would this be fair to intelligent, productive and useful people like person A if their efforts are going to quantified the same as a street sweeper, and what motivation would people like that have to better society when their efforts go unrecognized?

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>>132018280
n fact your political system is sure to destroy more families and cause more misery by pitting kids against their parents and overruling what parents think its best for their kids, while your filthy kind just want to use kids as canon fodder for the communist ruling elite.

Missing the point completely, great job faggot


What part of "we don't want to create the society where everyone is exactly equal in every way" didn't you understand Ernesto ?

>>132018608
I see, but in your other post you said something different:
>What will you do after that and how will you use that, entirely up to you
>entirely up to you

>One of the important communist ideas is to eliminate that accumulation of wealth between the generations, not to allow people who have a lot of many to give too much of a special treatment to their children
>not to allow people

>>131993515

Scarcity of resources.

Capitalism allocates resources where they need to go better than communism.

Ever hear of the phrase "Necessity is the mother of invention?" Constantly fearing death, starvation, and lack of resources motivates people to create new things and start businesses.

That doesn't happen in communism. That's why capitalism grows and communism doesn't.

That's if you wanted a real answer.

>>132019081
When I said "entirely up to you" I obviously meant that your choice of profession, how hard you will work and will you succeed in life is entirely up to you, you should be the one who choses for yourself and you should be awarded according to your contributions

When I said "not allow people" i meant not to allow people to fuck the point I made earlier up. Stop cherry picking my words you fucking retard, I see you're starting to lose arguments and are just taking my words out of context.
People SHOULDN'T be given more opportunity than everyone else just because they were born in a rich family and people SHOULD be able to have to have equal opportunities so that they could chose the profession for themselves. In extreme capitalist societies where health care and education are not provided people CAN'T chose for themselves since they are obstructed by their parents economic status but they CAN choses to make their children more entitled than everyone else if they have the money

You get the difference now idiot

>>131999277
This, capitalism can automatically calculate values, from societal to personal. How many bakeries are needed, is stem better than arts major etc.

>>132019650
The people who make more contributions get more rewards and become an upper class. Even if you stop wealth from passing down generations, you cannot stop family connections and especially knowledge from passing down, which will still give more intelligent people's children more advantages over the next prole

>>132018608
this is bullshit, you need to read Jews like mad Marx and shit

Communism emerged because capitalistic empires unified the world

world became closed system

in closed system capitalists (even including development of new technology and markets) often experienced overproduction that led to drop of profitability that led to great depressions - in 1820, 1870, 1930 and now, it was delayed by it is impossible to avoid (even J Keins admited it). depressions led to wars to destroy enemy assets and steal living space, market and shit.

commies failed to deal with crisis and failed with world revolution, communism has no sence today. even more - communism is impossible because it is against human nature. (same is with all kind of bullshi - natioAnal socialism, national communism, socialims , lolbertarianism etc).


i dont even mention that jews wanted to rule all this crowd, but they were too weak and unskilled to rule own system without parasitism. so in all countries sooner or later they were displaced by bloody dictators

Communism is simply illogical because humans like rest of the animals were developed by nature (consider god = nature). communism tries to convince people that instincts and rational decisions that are made by their brain are "bad" and porposes them bullshit

that is why communistic countries are always totalitarian.

>>132018809
>how would you justify different outcomes
We're not seeking to create the same outcomes

how do you justify taking the wealth of others, even those from the ex-middle class, to give B an equal start when B becomes a useless bum?

Well you can't really predict how successful someone will become, now can you ? We want to give everyone a chance, we don't care if they waste it. It is certainly better than allowing some people to go to school because their families have the means but not allowing others for the same reason, not caring how capable the person itself might be

>Would A be paid more or given more privileges from his inventions, or would he get the same shit as B?
Are you reading my posts or just repeating the same old "Why should the doctor be paid the same as janitor" argument, person A and B should be paid according to their abilities

>>132013388
>simplifying one of the most complex economic systems to a single sentence

You're right, one word is enough: GULAG

>>131993515
>Hey guys, what if, instead of a system based on competition and self-motivation, we had a system based on orders and manna from above.

>>132020011
>you cannot stop family connections and especially knowledge from passing down, which will still give more intelligent people's children more advantages over the next prole
Just zap their brain until they become vegetables, here, problem fixed the communist way.

>>131993515

it's because communism is socialism which wanted to be perfect, the best way is to let employers print reasonable moneys for payments [2000 netto] and it will just work by self

>>132020601

and please don't fool me, we need that system so people will have job, and employers won't have to worry for their incomes, plus we will get moneys for bills and for our lives [50-50 I guess]

>>132019011
>doesn't address a single point
what happened, did your owners fail to pass you the talking points to counter what I said? You're letting them down, the commies can get much better drones than some lazy frogposting

The whole notion of Capitalism vs Socialism is already quite facetious anyway since the former is just economy which can exist under many different kinds of political systems, a parliamentary monarchy a constitutional republic, a democracy and whatever else, while Socialism is a political system pushed by certain groups with a certain continuity throughout history that will control the economy and the rest of society and simply cannot coexist with any other form of government. So it's a false conflict between economy and political groups who aim for a totalitarian dictatorship and can change their ideas on a whim in order to stay in power (see: Lenin's NEP), always.

>>132020883

and don't tell me, no, really that it won't work, your shitty moneys never had any value beyond trading for goods... just let's stop this bullshit, just let people have normal life, plus this will stop immigration [if you do not know WHY on the earth PEOPLE ARE MOVING TO WORK IN UK/GERMANY]

>>132022299

I know how I sounds for you, but I can't help that your shitty pseudo civilization is fucking mentally issued, you are dealing with small problems for over hundred of years...

>>132022582

hundreds* ect
sorry for grammar fuck ups, my language grammar comes to mind while writing...

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https://www.pscp.tv/w/1MYGNAgjnrQKw

~

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>>131993647
No, stupid. Protestants invented capitalism, and in Germany to boot. You should know better, but you are probably an arab migrant anyway.

>>132013199
>capitalism
>stable
wat? There is a fucked up crisis every decade caused by the markets. H

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>>131994687
you t-too

>>131993515
Forced equality without any kind of rewarding for better job or even getting more than lazy fucks is a huge problem.

You really should look at National Socialism's economic instead. How can it fail when there's no private banking to exploit people?

Food supply is a large problem

"From each according his capacity to each according to his needs" - Seems good but realistically it fails.

People want to work low as possible and get much as possible, they are never satisfied


IMHO as a National Socialist I say it could work in small scale like villages and if only you include these elements

1: 100% of the people must be willing to do it
2: Not force them to work 12 hours a day, make it 4 hours a day with rotations
3: No threatening of gulag or death and shit like that for disobedient people
4: Have some possibility for the citizens to have power on their ruling class (Which is somehow contradictory) Stalin was untouchable, Mao too or even Pot
5: Punish the lazy and saboteurs, this is why USSR had so much famine
6: Use automation/robots to help, I really think that if USSR had better technology at it beginning it might still exist

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>>131993515
>capitalism, which is based on greed
Isn't communism based on literally "muh too rich bourgoise we must kill them because we need free money!!11"?

>>132024874

Bread is not expensive you twit. I can literally walk into wally world and buy a loaf for $.90.

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>>131994901

Communism: Equally poor

Capitalism: Unequally poor

You are not entitled to my funds or labor.

>>131994687
ironically, breadlines happened in USSR during the transition from "socialism" to capitalism

>>132025463
But people who inherited company shares and never worked a day in their lives do?

>>131993593
Productiveness is your acceptance of morality, your recognition of the fact that you choose to live--that productive work is the process by which man's consciousness controls his existence, a constant process of acquiring knowledge and shaping matter to fit one's purpose, of translating an idea into physical form, of remaking the earth in the image of one's values--that all work is creative work if done by a thinking mind, and no work is creative if done by a blank who repeats in uncritical stupor a routine he has learned from others--that your work is yours to choose, and the choice is as wide as your mind, that nothing more is possible to you and nothing less is human--that to cheat your way into a job bigger than your mind can handle is to become a fear-corroded ape on borrowed motions and borrowed time, and to settle down into a job that requires less than your mind's full capacity is to cut your motor and sentence yourself to another kind of motion: decay--that your work is the process of achieving your values, and to lose your ambition for values is to lose your ambition to live--that your body is a machine, but your mind is its driver, and you must drive as far as your mind will take you, with achievement as the goal of your road--that the man who has no purpose is a machine that coasts downhill at the mercy of any boulder to crash in the first chance ditch, that the man who stifles his mind is a stalled machine slowly going to rust, that the man who lets a leader prescribe his course is a wreck being towed to the scrap heap, and the man who makes another man his goal is a hitchhiker no driver should ever pick up--that your work is the purpose of your life, and you must speed past any killer who assumes the right to stop you, that any value you might find outside your work, any other loyalty or love, can be only travelers you choose to share your journey and must be travelers going on their own power in the same direction.

>>132025544
Corporations do not have authority over me through use of force. Government does. I can always choose to say no in a free market. If I don't like my job then I can quit.

>>132024791
Yes, crisis for us, but the overall Capitalist system just grows more stable with those crisis

>>132025544
Money is the barometer of a society’s virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion–when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing–when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors–when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don’t protect you against them, but protect them against you–when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice–you may know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot.

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>>131998962
He looks proud

>>132025649
>empty lolbertarian rhhetoric
>free market
>not a utopia

>>132025663
Explain 2008 crisis then, if the capitalist system is growing more stable

>>132022002
When in lack of arguments, just use the good conspiracy theory

I really pity you man, I really do

>>131993515
>North Korea
>Commies
PLS stop this meme already.

Kim Jong-Un even make the top officer read Mein Kampf... how the fuck is that a commie?

In wich moment did Kim Jong-Un did the agrarian reform?
End private property?

>>132025913
Your moral code begins by damning man as evil, then demands that he practice a good which it defines as impossible for him to practice…It demands that he starts, not with a standard of value, but with a standard of evil, which is himself, by means of which he is then to define the good: the good is that which he is not.

>>132025984
Go ahead, prove him wrong. When there's proofs, it is no longer a theory

>>132024874
You can buy 4 loaves of high quality bread with for $5. Are you too poor to afford that? Go to any homeless shelter. The stores give their "old" bread to them and they always have stacks of bread.

Also http://www.theoldfoodie.com/2011/03/sawdust-bread.html

>>132025913
Do you see it collapsing ? I don't

You're missing the point here, I am saying that capitalism grows only stronger in the times of crisis. Example being that when an economic crisis hits you have to take bank loans to pay off your sudden debt, meaning you are even more pulled into the capitalist machinery

>>132025984
To live, man must hold three things as the supreme and ruling values of his life: Reason - Purpose - Self-esteem. Reason, as his only tool of knowledge - Purpose, as his choice of the happiness which that tool must proceed to achieve - Self-esteem, as his inviolate certainty that his mind is competent to think and his person is worthy of happiness, which means: is worthy of living. These three values imply and require all of man's virtues, and all his virtues pertain to the relation of existence and consciousness: rationality, independence, integrity, honesty, justice, productiveness, pride.

>>132014840

No, communism is more about dragging the top achievers down. Not everyone wants to be "equal." Some people want to be the best that they can be, but communist wants to ignore human spirit and drag people down to the level of ants.

In addition, groups are most successful when the most capable are given more control and power while the less capable has less. A society controlled and managed by the people is doomed to failure because most people are morons.

>>131993515

I grew extremely poor in a village (a literal village) in Northern Canada. We had two TV channels. I wore cloth diapers, we couldn't afford disposables. My best friend and neighbor wore the same sweatpants to school for 2 years because it was the only pair of pants he owned. Not a lot of opportunity.

Through hard work and education I am an executive at one of Canada's top 100 employers.

Communism is for people that blame society for their inability to achieve. Most people that I talk to who agree with Communism usually end up admitting later in the discussion that they have some sort of mild mental illness which prevents them from achieving anything.

Capitalism works if you do.

>>132026227
Oh sorry man, I completely fucking forgot about the lizard jew people that came from another planet to destroy the human race using communism. So stupid of me, how could I have forgotten that if that same lizard dude is sitting over my neck and paying me to say all this

You were fucking right from the beginning dude, it's the jews or some other shit that are doing whatever you think they are doing. You weren't wrong for blaming literally everything on them, they purposely did kill your vacuum cleaner last year when it died just to fuck with the white race

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>>132012861

>>132020189

Almost everyone in first world countires are given a chance. School 1-12 is free and you get free college money if you're poor.

>>131993515
1 post by this ID

>>132026721
So you think money is the root of all evil? Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim you product by tears, or of looters, who can take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?

>>131993515
Utilitarian systems suck ass. It's basically crabs in a bucket mentality. You don't want universal socialism because people at the bottom don't want to see others succeed more than them.
Capitalism rewards success and influences people to succeed. You'll just get druggy stoner do-nuthins in 1st world communist states who learned to live off their parents then weened to suck on govt teet. Expect more of those people

>>132026721
Nice of you, but you forgot that pretty much always communism is a dictatorship and that your life will always remain the same. Not to mention that pretty much advancement stagnates after isolation.

Could you add that to your comic aswell? Sadly it are the facts that communists usually wish to ignore.

True Communism™ is sadly a fairy tale because it was never done and should never be done because its the most robot life imaginable.

>>132026607
because you live in a first world country. in a capitalist third world country is pretty damn near impossible to climb up the social ladder
dont be naive

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>>132026671
Seems like you don't want to see the facts behind the ideology - Must suck to be you, a good fucking goy


Ignorance won't help you

>>131993515
It fails at the economic calculation. Soviet planners were using a Sears Roebuck catalog to try to set prices. Obviously that didn't work and you end up with shortages and starvation. To say nothing of the inevitable imprisonment and execution of of Socially Dangerous Elements by your paranoid leaders. Ludwig von Mises intellectually blew your shit out after he got done killing you in WWI in 1922 in his book Socialism. Literally wrote it for a Socialist audience go download it

Nothing is wrong with a Communist living a Communistic life.
Just don't impose it on me or my people.
If you do I'll remind you that America has guns.
And a lot of rednecks who've been plinking their whole lives.
Since Commies aren't people transitioning from one form of plinking to another won't be that hard.
Just a friendly reminder - Commies aren't people and if they get out of hand they'll be treated like feral animals.

>>132027122
That's their problem, shit genetics I guess.

>>132027122

It's still better than the alternatives.

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>>132026533
Looks like a really capable top achiever to me

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>>132026869
money is a spook

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>>131993515
Hello gomrades! XDDDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of revolutionary socialism and gommunism.

Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.

Wat exagtly is gommunism according to gommies:

>Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. XDDDD
>Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :DDDD
>To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liquidate you all lol. When capitalists run away we win and I kill you all. Eventually the functions of state cease and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people.
https://www.gommies.gom/fug/
https://www.gommies.gom/starve/

GL uses philosphy of gib and starve, see here:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohfugme/

It is recommend you kill yourself so you can avoid starving.

Resources:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohshid/
https://www.gommies.gom/1984/
https://www.gommies.gom/guck/
https://www.gommies.gom/probaganda/
https://www.gommies.gom/XDDDD/
https://www.gommies.gom/wheresfood/
https://www.gommies.gom/benis/

>>131993515
Communism tries to deny the very nature of mankind. We are selfish, there's no changing that.

>>132026671
How can you actually defend communism, using communist theory?

>>132027480
If you ask me to name the proudest distinction of Americans, I would choose--because it contains all the distinctions of the others--the fact that they were the people who created the phrase "to make money". No other language or nation had ever used these words before; men had always thought of wealth as a static quantity--to be seized, begged, inherited, shared, looted or obtained as a favor. Americans were the first to understand that wealth has to be created. The words 'to make money' hold the essence of human morality.

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Nothing,take a look ay nazy germany,it CAN work

>>132027175
Oh shit man, you put a picture with someones theory about the frankfurt school and you put a giant red square over it ? Shit man, that's some top notch argument over there
I see you also put a picture of some dudes and jewish symbols over their heads, hmm man that really made me think now.
A Propaganda book written by a nazi ????

That's it man, I am defeated, you have won with this single image that technically doesn't count as proof , but nevertheless you really fucked me today. I guess I have to be nazi now

>>132027582
>still falling for the "communism is generosity meme"

>>132027777
Nice digits.

The source of man's rights is not divine law or a congressional law, but the law of identity. A is A ___ and man is man. Rights are conditions of existence required by man's nature for his proper survival. If man is to live on earth, it is right for him to use his mind, it is right to act on his own free judgment, it is right to work for his values and to keep the product for his work. If life on earth is his purpose, he has a right to live as a rational being: nature forbids him the irrational.

>>132018280
The point of this pamphlet is what? Everything is automated so we dont have to work?

>>132027777
quads can't lie man, you were really right >>132027175

>>132027777
Prove me wrong

Pro-tip: You can't

Communism is failure

>>131999022
You either are from Poland, copied it from polish friends or, completely accidentally, you've recreated PRL-era polish saying.

Nothing. Just look at great leader toiling in the factory like a man of the people. Western elitist cucks would never get their hands dirty like that.

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>>132027582
>DUDE JUST RAPE AND MURDER BRO IT'S HUMAN NATURE THERE'S NO CHANGING THAT LMAO

>>132027175
Considering he didn't even argue the points, you win.

The brilliance of capitalism is that it takes a negative emotion that all humans have (greed) and uses it as a motivater for altruism. Capitalism is essentially forced altruism, for all classes. When in the lower class, you need to provide services for others and help others in order to survive. In upper classess, greed will motivate you to give the people what they want. Whether your buisness or product is successful is highly determined by whether others need or want your product. Furthermore, it is this greed that drives innovation. Companies and people work together to advance our society in various fields, electronics, agriculture, medicine motivated by the profits they can obtain. Where as communists lack this motivation. They have no reason to look for something bigger and better, they stagnate.

Furthermore the main issue I have with communism, disregarding the ethical implicatons of using violence to take another's earnings, is that it relys on an all powerful government with hightened influence in our daily lives, far more than in any capitalist society, to keep the people's interest rather than their own. As humans we all suffer from greee, and if you submit to an appointed government figure and allow him to requistion wealth from anyone at any time and give it to who he personally deems worthy, you're going to end up with pure tyranny.

>>132009684

He agrees with you though. Communism is trash, in principle it says that personal property is wrong because of reasons, that money is wealth but money has no value, which is contradictory.

The very core concepts of Communism can be torn to shreds in seconds by children.

>>132028394
I'm ashamed to say I meant to tag OP.

>>132027885
I'll translate it

Capitalism
>The factory workers work for the factory owner.
>Private property: lands, mines, factories, banks and companies in general are owned by the bourgeoisie.
>The objectives are the profit of the bourgeoisie.
>Decisions are taken by the bourgeoisie based on the situation of the market.

Socialism
>The factory belongs to all society, who works for itself.
>Collective property: workers are the ones who own everything
>The objective is the welfare of society.
>Decisions are taken democratically by society, which plan the economy.

tl;dr version HURR SOCIALISM GUD, CAPITALISM BAD

>>132009105
The difference is in a capitalist society you can move up the caste system.

In a communist system, there is no moving up the ladder. Ever.

JP explains how this fits with human nature quite well using dominance hierarchies. It is man's nature to want to move up ladders. Communism destroys this.

>>132025913
>Explain the 2008 Financial collapse.

This is my favorite thing to red pill people on.

In 1998 Andrew Cumo calls on banking to relax lending standards for mortgages because of the racism meme (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JPraGHh-rM). Ignoring the fact that credit scores exist for a reason and these scores tend to track low among impoverished populations. Surprise people with no money don't pay bills.

The Government then sets up GSEs (Government Sponsored Enterprise) Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. These are entities set up to make the market for the $2.1 Billion that federal government is going to pump into the system. During this time you can also find Barney Frank (D) caterwalling in Congress about how the American Dream of home ownership is a right ( I shit you not, a right) of all Americans and that lenders need to make money available to people with bad credit. So Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac carry this along. The Bush administration saw the trouble that this was going to cause, but didn't have control of the House and Senate to really do anything about it.

There is an organization call ACORN that you may have heard of that would go to banks and disrupt operations until they made the loans to the poorly qualified lenders. They're man is Barak Obama and he would one day become President.
(Cont)

>>132027618
accumulation of wealth and capital is stealing

You're essentially squeezing the paycheck of your workers and the quality of your product so that you could take the surplus for yourself.

Let's examine this simple situation
Let's define two most important values a product has
Use value - value determined solely by the usefulness of the item at a given time
Exchange value - value determined by all other products on the market, the value for which we can exchange one product to another

We can see both of these values don't depend on the product itself but on external factors, so will we add another abstract value to make things more clear later, let's call it just "Value"
Value- the amount of labour put into creating one product, this accounts for both physical and intellectual labour

We can all agree that money is just an item of exchange, we use it as universal currency that we can exchange anything for. There are basically two methods of exchanging money and goods

G-M-G (Goods money goods)
We have some good and we want to exchange it for another, this good can be anything even our own labour. We exchange the good for money and then use the money to exchange i again for the goods we need
Example : I work and exchange my labour for money in order to buy myself foo

M-G-M (Money goods money)
Where we exchange money we already have for some goods and than exchange that good for even more money. This is called the accumulation of Capital. Why is it wrong ?
Money is no longer used as an item of exchange but as the good itself, the good that has been bought by this money hasn't changed it's use value or it's abstract value in the process, but the person accumulation has purposely raised it's exchange value so that he could profit of the surplus. This is inherently bad, and makes no sense

Money is an item of exchange and should be used only as such

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>>131993515

Communism has been tried many times and it always ended in tyranny, oppression, totalitarianism, poverty and suffering. Venezuela is the latest example.

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>>132028075

>>132028859
Money demands that you sell, not your weakness to men’s stupidity, but your talent to their reason; it demands that you buy, not the shoddiest they offer, but the best that your money can find. And when men live by trade—with reason, not force, as their final arbiter—it is the best product that wins, the best performance, the man of best judgment and highest ability—and the degree of a man’s productiveness is the degree of his reward. This is the code of existence whose tool and symbol is money. Is this what you consider evil?

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>>132028889
>that pic
>implying imperialist supporters, kulaks, and landlords were "innocents"
Pol Pot objectively wasn't communist as well

>>132028857
In order to manage the incredible risk that these loans presented and distribute it across the financial sector the industry bundled these loans up into a new securities called Mortgage Backed Securities and then sold the debt all over wall street. That's why the whole economy took a hit this time unlike when the .com bubble popped. The meme at the time was "Who doesn't pay their mortgage right?" Niggers, Spics, and Trailer trash. That's who don't pay their mortgages and in 2008 the chickens came home to roost as defaults swept the industry. Bail outs were in order of course in what was called "Quantitative Easing" Obama's friends and government banks got a payout from the American People.

The government then went on to spin the greedy bankers story on all their friendly networks to make sure that everyone knew that the government was till good and those meany capitalists were bad.

You must remember that these loans were made with all of the risk deferred to the government at the behest of the government. No one in their right mind would have made these loans otherwise. Capitalism has a natural regulator and that is risk. If you are playing with your own money you will be more averse to risk and make loans to people you know will pay. If you are playing with someone else's money and have no risk and this person is even demanding that you make bad loans then of course you'll take the shot and hope you aren't left with the hot potato when the music stops.

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>>132029053
yeah, you summed it up

Also
>>132029053
>>132027880
>>132027618
>>132026869
>>132026417
>>132026211
>>132025760
>>132025549
You're on 4chan fag, you can cut the fancy speech , you sound like a fedora tipping retard

>>132029394
To me there's only one form of human depravity-the man without a purpose.

>>132029394
>Communists mocks somebody making a intelligent discourse
why am I not surprised

>>132025481
breadlines were a thing during the whole history of ussr

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>>132029497
You're not even making any sense, you're just throwing random quotes left and right

>>132029658
There is a difference between intelligent discourse and trying hard to make it look like intellectual discourse

>>132029764
Independence is the recognition of the fact that yours is the responsibility of judgment and nothing can help you escape it—that no substitute can do your thinking—that the vilest form of self-abasement and self-destruction is the subordination of your mind to the mind of another, the acceptance of an authority over your brain, the acceptance of his assertions as facts, his say-so as truth, his edicts as middle-man between your consciousness and your existence.

>>132029744
Just ignore the famines of 1921, 1930's, the mid 50's, etc

>>132029658
lmao it's the only way they can keep being communist. Just ignore all criticism

>>132028112
Because a commie is ALWAYS wrong and refuse to knowledge he is the Jews' puppet

>>132028859
Labor is not a source of value. I could dump hours and hours of my time into making something no one wants and it would be worthless.

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>>132029943
>he's still going

>>131993964
>>132008950
Fascism isnt the opposite of communism -- they can both exist at the same time. Communism has ALWAYS led to fascism. It is a result of it.

"The purpose of socialism is communism"
-Karl Marx

Fascism is an unintentional consequence for the people voting for communism. Nobody likes living under communism unless youre in the top .02% of the oligarch. Dont you see? Its not 1% anymore.

>>132030135
I refuse to apologize for my ability—I refuse to apologize for my success—I refuse to apologize for my money.

>>132029244
All the risk was deferred to the government? Is that why we had to bail them out with the government?

The loans may have been given at the behest of the government but predatory banking practices led to the financial collapse; it's very plain to see that banks were loaning money to people they knew would default because they knew the men they'd bought and paid for in the government would take care of them. You'd have to be a tard to not see it extends over the party divide.

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>>131993515
>Fair
Go fuck yourself asshole
LIFE. ISN'T. FAIR.
Even IF people were communists
you would still have cripples, midgets
blacks, gays, everything, we aren't one
fucking being, we all do things differently,
we all want different things out of life,
if YOU want to be a commie, and work
your whole life to give everything you earn
to people who don't deserve it, that's your problem, but I am going to remain a capitalist, making my own way through life, keeping my take, and passing down everything, the day I kick the bucket, while you, and your commie friends have nothing, because you couldn't take care of everyone.

Fucking die.

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>>132030152
You don't what fascism is, do you?

>>132030288
Your statement wasnt even coherent.

>>132030131
I'm not saying it is, a product can have huge abstract value but no exchange or use value whatsoever . I'm just using it to show that the labour put into creating the product hasn't changed and the use value stayed the same, but the exchange value has

The product became more valuable on the market eve though none of it's characteristics or usefulness have changed

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>>131993515

It's designed to fail & cause mass Death.

Communism/Socialism fails because it's designed to fail.

Archives: http://archive.4plebs.org/_/search/subject/knowledge%20bomb/username/anonymous5/tripcode/%21%219O2tecpDHQ6/

>>132029744
lol no. They were a thing in Poland during the warsaw pact, but not in USSR

>>132029923
this, /pol/tards think intelligent speech is using fancy words

>>132029962
>the mid 50's
post WW2, you know, the war that ravaged western Russia?

> 1921, 1930's
Heritage from Imperial Russia

>>132030181
Your money wasn't legitimately earned more than likely

>>132030152
>making a completely retarded and nonsensical post
>completely ignorant of the themes he tries to be a authority in
>posts with a lolbertarian flag

Everything checks out

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>>132030181

>>132030688
Money is the product of virtue, but it will not give you virtue and it will not redeem your vices.
>>132030818
I don't know wheter I am getting older and more demanding, or whether the human race is degenerating, but the world didn't seem to be so barren of intelligence in my youth.

>>132030384
>not being able to read basic English

Get off 4chan and read a book anon.

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>>132030688
According to what? Your opinion? Get fucked commie, low skill = low pay


Get on a higher level and stop complaining like a bitch. You would have fuck all without capitalism

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>>132014840
>I really don't know why fascists oppose marxist ideas so much
Mostly because they don't work. Fascism is designed to utilize human nature to its full extent, Marxism fights it on every level.

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>>132030948
>Money is the product of virtue
Here is a model of virtue!

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>>132030948
Virtuosity impersonated!

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>>132030203
>Is that why we had to bail them out

yes that is exactly why. Because the government said they would do so if it ever came to that.

The government basically printed $2.1 billion and dumped it on the economy through the GSEs that they created for the express purpose of making shit loans. They then took these loans bundled them up and sold them to everyone else. Predatory banking practices are not the issue here. No one is chomping at the bit to make garbage loans if they have to bear the risk. You've fallen for the propaganda the state cannot be absolved of this crime

>Party Lines
not sure what this has to do with anything.

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>>132030948

let's just fucking destroy the universe, maximum fairness achieved

>>131993515
Post the gif you commie fuck

>>132030606
BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Cover harder faggot. Here's what happened:

>Alexei Rykov takes over as minister for war communism during civil war, a shitty civil war that killed about ten million and lead to the famine of 1921 and 15% of heavy/light industry that the Empire had. Education standards dropped for the next decade and religion was illegal for over two decades.
>1930's famine used to be blamed on collectivisation. What we now know is that the USSR had food- and exported it to fund the military expenditure!
>the Soviet agricultural sector boomed immediately after the war. What happened in the mid 50's? I actually don't know. But they had to import food from the US.
>They had to import more food in the 70's. Keep in mind the USSR reached it's economic zenith in 74', where it's economy was 60% that of the GNP of the USA.

>>132031462
"If we all die, we win"

>>132031197
Fascism is the capitalist reaction to Communist encroachment

The only places that had fascist regimes appear naturally always had strong communist movements.

The communist party was the 3rd largest party in Weimar republic, and it had a strong and well organized para-military

>>132031544
The difference between Communism is the difference between Coke and Pepsi. A socialist is a socialist is a socialist. They both trace back to Rousseau,Hegel, and Kant

>>132031716
Communism and Fascism*

File: azule.jpg (218KB, 1000x500px) Image search: [Google]

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>>132031544
Well it solves the same problems communism seeks to solve but with less suffering, so that makes sense I suppose.

>>132031528
The proletariat cannot afford .gifs.

>>132031313
They have taught man that he is a hopeless misfit made of two elements, both symbols of death. A body without a soul is a corpse, a soul without a body is a ghost- yet such is their image of man's nature: the battleground of a struggle between a corpse and a ghost.

>>131993515
Russia was true communism and look where it is now.

Hey, have any of you read Ion Mihai Pacepa books? He says the KGB promoted anti-semitism in the USA and the middle east

Central planning is too inefficient at destributing and assigning resources. Only a free market can alocate the appropriate ammount of resources to appropriate sectors.

>>132031529
>Alexei Rykov takes over as minister for war communism during civil war,
>during civil war
>there is a famine in a peasant country during one of the most brutal civil wars in history

Oh my, what a shocker!!

>What we now know is that the USSR had food- and exported it to fund the military expenditure!
source?

>the Soviet agricultural sector boomed immediately after the war.
It's easy to boom after hitting the bottom of the barrel. The real question is, what is the agricultural output post war compared to pre-war?

>They had to import more food
So what? Every country in this world imports food. It's called globalization

>>132027873
Nope. I'm just trying to say productivity drops when you alienate the producer from his own products. Almost no one will work efficiently "for the greater good".

>>131993515
'fair' - Taking other people's money is not 'fair' you tool. The free market means you are responsible for your life. Responsible for your health, intelligence, skills, home, family etc. Don't blame me because you suck at this. Tough. Hands off of my money. Just because I give a damn and work hard at improving myself and my life doesn't mean you get to leech off my success.

>>132031776
>but with less suffering
>every attempt at fascism either started with a bloody war or ended in a bloody war
>every fascist country was a brutal police state

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>>132032277
>every fascist country was a brutal police state
Yes, but they were not starving brutal police states. If your choice is becoming a brutal police state or becoming a brutal police state with mass starvation, which sounds better to you?

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>>131994687

The photo on the left is actually the consequences of Capitalism.

Suppliers witheald product from supermarkets creating an artificial scarecrow.

>>132032087
>communism requires revolutionary violence to takeover a country
>communists on 4chan not appalled that their ideology require the death of tens of millions

Wow.

>source?
Literally any book on the economics of the USSR, or Soviet general history. The best one was generically titled, and written by a female author if I remember right. I'll post it when I find it.Start with below:
https://www.google.com/shopping/product/715046397901410383?q=economics+of+the+soviet+union&sqi=2&biw=1920&bih=974&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.&tch=1&ech=1&psi=ufJXWYugF8zrmQG0m7XIDQ.1498935993743.3&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjN-_Dg4-jUAhVERSYKHexAD0cQ8wIIkAMwAw

https://www.google.com/shopping/product/3024758356156321515?q=economics+of+the+soviet+union&sqi=2&biw=1920&bih=974&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.&tch=1&ech=1&psi=ufJXWYugF8zrmQG0m7XIDQ.1498935993743.3&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjN-_Dg4-jUAhVERSYKHexAD0cQ8wIIvwMwBw

>It's easy to boom after hitting the bottom of the barrel. The real question is, what is the agricultural output post war compared to pre-war?

Are you trying to make my point for me? The second famine happened ten years after steady growth and after the war ended. There's literally no excuse for that given their available land and aquaculture.

>So what? Every country in this world imports food. It's called globalization
Then why were they so bad at it they had residual famines? Why does America produce more than sustenance level? Why couldn't the USSR do that? Why did the USSR export in the middle of the famine in the 30's?

>>132032277
>a communist complaining about police
Oh delicious irony.

>"every attempt at fascism either started with a bloody war or ended in a bloody war"

Let's see here:
>Italy, elected Mussolini, lost only because of war
>Germany, elected Hitler, lost only because of world war
>Spain, civil war, shifts out of fascism

I'm supposing we're not talking about countries like Japan, and I'm excluding the dictators in southeast Asia- who were actually pretty successful btw.

>inb4 citation starved

I will not hold your hand unless you swear you googled it first