This is a lefty-/pol/ thread, we will be discussing leftwing

Not a lot of people know this but there are actually 4 brothers.

Charles and David operate Koch Industries from Kansas, though David tends to spend more time at the New York office and in DC as the companies face. Charles beliefs unsettle people.

The other two brothers are William and Frederick.

William is Davids twin brother and Frederick is the oldest.

Their share of Koch Industries was bought out by other two brothers in 1983 for 800 million dollars.

They soon claimed the company had been undervalued and spent almost 20 years suing them.

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William lives in Florida and used his share of the family inheritance + the sale to start his own energy company Oxbow Group, boats to compete in the Americas Cup, and NIMBY efforts to stop offshore wind farms. As well as from the late 1980s-early 2000s funding civil corruption suites against Koch Industries for stealing oil from Indian Reservations (!), dumping toxic waste, knowingly poisoning workers with mercury and not informing them until they became too sick to work and refusing to pay them compensation, knowingly operating leaking pipelines that killed people under the rationale it would be cheaper to pay compo than fix, and other illegal practices at the same time he was suing the owners his brothers over the sale of the company.

He hired to carry out this civil case several retired FBI agents and EPA lawyers that had been working on similar cases in the 1980s that got shut down when Bush Snr appointed a friendly DA. There job wasn't that hard as Koch Industries staunchly refuses to maintain records, update or maintain old equipment, dispose of waste, operate a safe workplace, or cooperate with investigations. Charles Kochs has advocated in industry journals that they should fight tooth and claw investigations and regulators with everything at their disposal. Investigators and lawyers have reported being followed, their offices bugged, their garbage rummaged through, etc. One FBI agent said the Kochs are worse than mob cases he has worked on. Journalists have come under this scrutiny as well.

Frederick spends his inheritance + share of the sale on collecting art and restoring classical architecture. He lives in NYC and still catches the train and bus in his 80s.

Allegedly in the 1960s the three other brothers tried to blackmail Frederick into selling them his share of the company after Charles in a board room meeting of the four brothers claimed to have obtained evidence that Frederick was gay after breaking into and ransacking his Greenwich Village apartment and threatened to reveal this to their father if he did not sell.

Their father Fred Koch built oil refineries for the Nazis in the 1930s including for aviation fuel for military aircraft. He thought the Nazis had the right idea in 1938 when he concluded business there and brought home a nanny that was a member of the Nazi Party to help raise his children correctly. He believed in stern discipline for his children and encouraged fierce competition between them, including fighting which once saw Frederick break Charles nose. He was later a founding member of the John Birch Society in the 1950s.

Charles Koch went to work for it as a young man, as well founding economics schools that had holocaust deniers on their staff.

When their mother died in 1990 relations between the two camps were so bad Charles and David did not tell William and Frederick until it was too late for them to attend the funeral, William only managed to make the wake by chartering a private plane. Charles and David walked right past him without acknowledging him. Frederick was unable to attend at all. Their mothers will stipulated that no share could go to any brother engaged in legal action against another, disinheriting William and Frederick. They spent a decade contesting this alleging their brothers had manipulated her into inserting this clause in her final frail years on top of their case over the sale of the Koch Industries.

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Williams civil corruption suite against Charles and David finally concluded in a victory in the early 2000s with the court fining Koch Industries over 200 million, on appeal this was reduced to 23 million. The laws on civil corruption suites awarded him 1/4 and the government the rest.
With this turn of events Charles and David decided to settle with the brothers, stipulating all four would have to sign NDA preventing them for speaking negatively of the others with incrementally increasing fines for each instance.

When David Koch ran for the Vice President on the Libertarian Party ticket in 1980 William F. Buckley Jr described the brothers beliefs as "anarcho totalitarian".

Since then they have joined other wealthy recluses like the Mellon Scaifes and Olins inspired by the Powell Memorandum - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_F._Powell_Jr.#Powell_Memorandum - in constructing a dense web of right wing libertarian Think Tanks like Heritage Foundation and Cato Institute and American Enterprise Institute, public educational 'charities' and foundations, and faux grass roots groups all shifting money back and forth between one another ultimately hiding the source, allowing the Kochs and their wealthy friends to raise hundreds of millions of dollars to spend on election campaigns in secret - and often even tax deductible because of the on paper charitable status of the groups advocating their beliefs. - http://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/assets/4635153/Kochtopus.png

They have also gotten into schools and academia, funding high school textbooks, campuses in prestigious schools and endowments to fund research that provides the ideological framework for rationalizing their beliefs and generate the ideological warriors that will make the legislation for and promote in the media their beliefs, as well as campus lecture tours - http://www.alternet.org/comments/right-wing/rightwing-billionaires-are-intentionally-funding-hate-speech-college-campuses

You might say, "well hold on a minute what about George Soros?" True enough, in the 2004 election the height of his political involvement he spent 20 million dollars campaigning against George Bush. In the 2016 election the Koch brothers and their donor network raised 889 million to campaign for Republican candidates.

And huge sums - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/dec/20/conservative-groups-1bn-against-climate-change - are pumped into - http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/global-warming/climate-deniers/koch-industries/ - climate change denial - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/dark-money-funds-climate-change-denial-effort/

And the people doing this are total cynics - https://theintercept.com/2017/04/28/how-a-professional-climate-change-denier-discovered-the-lies-and-decided-to-fight-for-science/

More is channeled into taking over state legislatures and gerrymandering, er, I mean redrawing congressional districts as part of the REDMAP program.

Koch Industries being in fossil fuels and notorious for refusing to adhere to regulations is naturally opposed to the EPA, clean air act, clean water act, endangered species act.

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So of course the libertarian politics they and their fronts espouse advocate a small government that is uninvolved in these things.

Koch Industries abuses its work force. Their libertarian politics argue against unions, collective bargaining, OSHA, minimum wage, etc

It goes on and on like this. The liberty and freedom they believe in is a cynical right of the ultra wealthy to do as they please at everyone else's expense.

Their ideal period of American history was the Gilded Age. So called by Mark Twain because the gold gild work hid the rotten core, and they are determined to rescind every social improvement, every New Deal policy, every advance made in the Progressive Era and drag the country back to that time.

>>131729087
kys lefty scum

>>131729087
> there is only 1 source for all your problems lefty
> it's the international Jew that you so love

>>131730663
what do you hope to contribute with this?
>>131730725
The Kochs, Mercers, DeVos, etc aren't Jewish

>>131731278
I've done a little bit of business with a Koch heir, Chase

>>131731544
whats he like?

also,
>Chase Koch
lel thats unfortunate

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>>131729087
Fuck off commie you fags try and rename socialism, but news flash it sucks
go gas yourself

>>131731693
Not a bad guy. I've done business with folks like him on the right and the left. They're sociopaths where business is concerned (as is everyone) but a lot of them really think they owe the world some kind of philanthropy and change. Not all of them are earnest but a surprising number are

>>131731825
so this must be that non aggression I hear so much about from the lolbertarians

>>131731866
the philanthropy is self serving: its a tax deduction, and the trusts allow them to pass on wealth tax free after a set number of years donating the interest generated

I'm a transgender Syrian refugee living in Idaho. AMA

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>>131732044

>>131732044
wut up my nigga

>>131729850
>>131729986
>>131730048

Interesting stuff OP never knew that there were 4 koch bros

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The Republican Party isn’t extreme enough. So say the Koch brothers, who are threatening to withhold the $400 million they have promised to inject into the 2018 electoral cycle.

Members of the U.S. Congress have received their marching orders: Repeal the Affordable Care Act (in other words, replace “Obamacare” with “Trumpcare”) and lavish billionaires with massive tax cuts. A June “donor retreat” at a Koch brothers’ compound in Colorado was attended by 400 people, and the “price for admission for most was a pledge to give at least $100,000 this year to the Kochs’ broad policy and political network,” The Guardian reported.

The Koch brothers are on record as committing up to $400 million on the next midterm elections, but such largesse is not without strings. The Guardian quoted the head of the Koch brothers’ political arm, Americans for Prosperity, Tim Phillips, as frustrated at the delays in extremist legislation getting through Congress. “There is urgency,” Phillips said. “We believe we have a window of about 12 months to get as much of it accomplished as possible before the 2018 elections grind policy to a halt.”

>>131733039
>Tim Phillips, as frustrated at the delays in extremist legislation getting through Congress. “There is urgency,” Phillips said. “We believe we have a window of about 12 months to get as much of it accomplished as possible before the 2018 elections grind policy to a halt.”

Are they afraid?

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>>131729087
>lefty
>politically incorrect

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>>131733421
problem?

>>131733039
As an example of what is expected to be done, one wealthy donor told the gathering that his “Dallas piggy bank” is closed for now. “Get Obamacare repealed and replaced, get tax reform passed. Get it done and we’ll open it back up,” he told The Guardian, adding that he has encouraged other wealthy donors to similarly withhold money until they get what they expect.

The greatest democracy in the world ladies and gentlemen

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Koch Industries is one of the country’s worst polluters of the air and water as well as a major source of greenhouse gases. Thus it comes as no surprise that Charles and David Koch, who operate the company, are also active funders of global-warming denialism, and the two stand to profit enormously from the Alberta tar sands. They own close to two million acres that, should that land be fully exploited, would throw another 19 billion metric tons of carbon emissions into the atmosphere. The International Forum on Globalization estimates that the Koch brothers stand to make more than one million times more than the average Keystone XL pipeline worker over the life of the pipeline, based on potential profits of $100 billion.

The Koch brothers are major funders of the extremist American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) that writes legislation to benefit its corporate membership that is frequently passed by state legislators verbatim; and even attempted to take control of the Cato Institute, the far-right libertarian “think tank” that, despite agitating for the end of Social Security, was apparently not extreme enough for them.

Not content with control of Congress and state legislatures, David Koch donated $300,000 to U.S. Vice President Mike Pence’s gubernatorial bids, and Pence has dutifully denied global warming. A 2014 Politico article reported:

>“A number of Pence’s former staffers from his days in Congress have assumed major roles in the brothers’ corporate and political spheres. And Americans for Prosperity, the Kochs’ top political group, has been holding up Pence’s work in Indiana as emblematic of a conservative reform agenda they’re trying to take nationwide. … Pence has worked to spotlight the fiscal issues that animate the Kochs’ political giving. People close to the brothers say he first earned their network’s admiration during the George W. Bush years, when he opposed what he deemed Big Government policies backed by his own party, including No Child Left Behind and a Medicare expansion, and repeatedly warned that the GOP was veering off course.”

What's the point if posting all this shit? Jist have to get it off your chest? True leftists hate the democrats and liberals too, btw.

>>131734047
Fucking phone posting

>>131729087
>please remember you have entire board to post in
so do you, 8shitter

>>131734047
where is there support for the democrats in this thread?
>>131734148
there is a leftypol board on 4chan?

>>131729087
>>131729087
So how is this any different than the 'money folks' on the left? Soros for example. Oh yeah, because he backs violent overthrows.

As nasty as they are they have nothing on the subversion of democracy as oil fiefdoms of the middle east.

BETTER DEAD THAN RED

>>131729087
For the year 2016, the first of the Koch Brothers was ranked #51 for spending. Thats nothing. 7of the top 10 are Democrat donors. Check the link for yourself:

https://www.opensecrets.org/outsidespending/summ.php?disp=D

I'm conservative & completely want $ out of politics. But I also look into the facts.

>>131734313
>You might say, "well hold on a minute what about George Soros?" True enough, in the 2004 election the height of his political involvement he spent 20 million dollars campaigning against George Bush. In the 2016 election the Koch brothers and their donor network raised 889 million to campaign for Republican candidates.

You should learn to read.

>>131734360
The USA is in the Middle East to control the supply of easily accessible oil, and make money for energy firms.
>>131734481
>889 million spent on 2016 election
facts shmacts

Soros, Bezos, Zuckerberg, Gates, Bloomberg, List goes on. They want total govt control over people. No guns, no cars that you drive, they dont even want you growing food in your yard or catching fish in the ocean. Check liberal activist groups for that by the way, find out what the snapper season in FL is for example to get an idea.

I have found that lefties really have absolutely no idea what their ideology actually leads to.

>>131734481
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/26/koch-network-piggy-banks-closed-republicans-healthcare-tax-reform

One Texas-based donor warned Republican lawmakers that his “Dallas piggy bank” was now closed, until he saw legislative progress.

“Get Obamacare repealed and replaced, get tax reform passed,” said Doug Deason. “Get it done and we’ll open it back up.”

Nonetheless, Koch officials said that the network’s midterm budget for policy and politics is between $300m and $400m.

Mommy, whats a Plutocracy?

>>131734750
Do you really think communism would work in the US? You think it would work with our culture? It would take days before people start killing eachother for more.

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>>131734798

>>131734666
You should learn to comprehend. I know you created a thread to pass the time with your bs argument, but there is no difference in Ds and Rs when it comes to large amounts of dark money in politics.

You should learn to google...and I even picked the biggest lib POS rag there is...might want to check your numbers...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/superpac-donors-2016/

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>>131729087
itt: pic related

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>>131734866
Who said communism?

How does that even relate to the topic? Do you think if someone objects to an elite few dictating policy and the direction of the society then the only alternative they want is communism?

>>131735040
It is true that the Democrats and Republicans are merely the Less Extreme and More Extreme factions of the Business Party
But business interests overwhelming support the Republicans and use them to push their agenda as this demonstrates
And where in here is there support for the Democrats? Making an assumption are you?

>biggest lib POS rag
you say this because it is critical of what you support
You talk about learning to comprehend and yet make such basic biased partisan objections to anything not in total agreement with you

The Washington Post and other newspapers like it serves the wealthy elites running society
This means it has some degree more latitude in what it reports and how it presents it and engages in critical analysis, the people running society need a reasonably clear view of the world if they're going to run things properly

>>131735040
What you're basically trying to say is its all relative, the 'other side' do it so its okay, its okay for a wealthy elite to dictate policy and demand 22 million people lose healthcare because everyone is doing it so they might as well get in on the act too

When the facts are there isn't anything like this on 'the other side' - and the other side serve different elements of the power elite anyway

>>131735409
Assumption? Look at your OP. Lefty.
Anyhoo...don't leave out foreign money...
https://sunlightfoundation.com/2016/03/17/hillary-clinton-campaign-totals-13-fundraisers-in-foreign-countries/

>>131735531
Don't guess you follow the current news...
Obama stole from Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae to fund Ocare...so, we really have no idea how many ppl would have lost coverage a lot sooner.
How bout those shareholders, huh? Talk about the elite screwing us 'peons' over.

>>131735577
1) Where is Clinton defended in this thread?
2) What does this have to do with the Koch brothers? Is it supposed to be some sort of defense?
3) Raygun had death squad commanders dancing at his inaugural ball in thanks for donating to his campaign

>>131735531
And, your vocabulary and writing style....
Grad student or prof? You're not bike lock guy are you???

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Is it really that bad that Trump won? Clinton may have been way worse.

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>>131735577
>Donors at these events presumably are U.S. citizens who currently live in the countries where the events are held.
Did you read past the title?

>>131735777
You said it only exists on the R side...elites and all.
So, if you truly want to have a discussion, you have to look at all sides.
Bernie's a fucking crook 'NO REFUNDS'..Stein made a killing on the recount fundraising...
You really are trying to argue all of the bullshit is with the 'elite Republicans'.
You are delusional.

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>>131735764
>random words

DemocracyNow > YoungTurks
Isn't close either.
Stop being cucks and supporting the YT fucking losers. Support actual journalism.

>>131735859
'Presumably'....like a CNN 'source'.
And, HRC was the only candidate to hold overseas fundraisers...and even included the saintly Madeline Albright.
Oh, and WaPo had a great story about all of the foreign money HRC took in.

>>131734750
the Saudis alone have spent over a billion a year in the USA funding CARE, the MSA's the building of mosques and the funding of Islamic studies programs at almost every university in the USA. That's just sustained funding. They are also major contributors to the Koch networks.

>>131729087
> muh Koch brothers boogeyman

There are far richer people involed in lefty politics, and the richest billionaires are all lefties.

>>131735792
What is this asking?
Are you complaining that I'm too articulate or not articulate enough I don't understand
>>131735819
She didn't oppose the ACA or intend on repealing MediCaid. She didn't claim Climate Change was a hoax.
She didn't oppose the Iran deal.

So there are those positives.
On the other hand she's largely a neoliberal hawk.

So what do you do?

Not vote and let the worse candidate threatening peoples health and the survival of the planet sail in?

Do you hold your nose and vote for the less bad option and get back to work organizing something different and better?

Because you're never going to have anything but such options if you don't do something about it.

>>131729087
It's the jews man, it's always the jews.

>>131735940
>you are delusional because you wont pay attention to a few dubious cherry picked examples instead of these oligarchs who nakedly demand their policy agenda be implemented or they hold back hundreds of millions of dollars of campaign money
Yes, of course, I'm the deluded one.

>>131729087
>And how can it be rectified?

You realize that leftism and communism is how they are currently trying to secure power, right?

>>131729087
Back to plebbit, fedora cringelord

>>131735948
I go back to the comprehension and awareness of political climate...maybe your tutor could help you a little bit? Or ask your gender studies prof for help?

>>131735948
SJW culture obviously protects the capitalist system. It is funded by it, even if you don't believe a conspiracy controls it (it does).

It is easy to distract say blacks and tell them that the system discriminates against them. That means the system can be changed and all that needs to be done is to get rid of racism. Then suddenly blacks will be benefiting from the system just like whites are today! Come on. Of course this is bullshit to protect the billionaire class.

Or wedge issues like transgender language. Fucking transgenders are like 1 in 20,000 people. They are so fucking rare it isn't funny. It is a wedge issue. The point isn't to help transgenders, the point is to give virtue signalers something to vote for. The Democratic party is just as enslaved to corporations and billionaires as the Republican party. Please.

>>131735971
Who cited YoungTurks?
But yes DemocracyNow is quite good, Amy Goodman is a real journalist

>>131736165
World War is a lot worse than any of those things. Shut the fuck up.

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>>131729087
SIEG MOTHERFUCKING HEIL

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>>131736049
>cites a source that doesn't say what you claim
>insists there are secret code words within it for a darker truth to be revealed

>>131736243
Okay, I see you truly believe what you are typing.
Everyone in the US political system has oligarchs behind them
For example: Ossoff/Handel just had the most expensive House race in history...pays 174k/yr.
The majority of money was on the Dem side.
I will now bow out, as you feel that your viewpoint is the only correct one.

>>131735531
You do realize there are only 9 million people enrolled in the Affordable Care Act right?

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>>131729087
HEIL HITLER DESU

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>>131729087
>This is a lefty-/pol/ thread, we will be discussing leftwing politics


lol faggot, why don't you move to Venezuela, instead of leeching off of right winger's successes

>>131736163
>boogeyman
Do you deny they raised 889 million to spend on the 2016 election?
Are you denying THEIR OWN CLAIMS of raising 400 million to spend on the midterms next year?
>richest billionaires are all lefties
1) the koch brothers combined wealth is more than bill gates
2) gates, buffet, etc are not left wing

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>>131729087
14/88

>>131736247
oh by that really stings

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>>131729087
You commie fucks will hang desu

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>>131729087
Your anime waifus are shit compared to ours

>>131729087
You retard faggots still whine abut the Koch brothers? Lmfao

>>131736434
>https://sunlightfoundation.com/2016/03/17/hillary-clinton-campaign-totals-13-fundraisers-in-foreign-countries/

From source I quoted. No code words.

Clinton’s campaign has held eight total fundraisers in London, including two in March. And her offshore fundraising operation has so far reached Munich with one fundraiser; Durban, South Africa with one fundraiser; and Mexico City with two fundraisers. It is worth noting, that to the best of our knowledge Clinton herself, won’t be attending any of these fundraising parties.

Donors at these events presumably are U.S. citizens who currently live in the countries where the events are held. However, it is also worth nothing that the Federal Elections Commission (FEC) permits U.S. permanent residents (as well as U.S. citizens) to donate to presidential campaigns.

According to the FEC, “Foreign nationals are prohibited from making any contributions or expenditures in connection with any election in the U.S. Please note, however, that ‘green card’ holders (i.e., individuals lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the U.S.) are not considered foreign nationals and, as a result, may contribute.”

These “foreign nationals” include foreign governments, political parties, corporations, associations, partnerships, persons with foreign citizenship and non-permanent resident immigrants.

Overseas fundraisers are relatively common for leading presidential candidates, but hosting over a dozen events before spring illustrates the vast reach of Clinton’s fundraising machine. By comparison, according to Party Time, no other presidential candidate has any official overseas fundraisers to his/her name.

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>>131729087
Eat shit faggots

>>131736321
>SJW culture obviously protects the capitalist system.
>It is easy to distract say blacks and tell them that the system discriminates against them. That means the system can be changed

Changing the system protects the system?

And there is capitalist exploitation of minorities don't kid me.

Are there wedge issues? Are some businesses trying to get some cheap PR? Sure, but I think you're exaggerating and focusing on it to the exemption of everything else.

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>>131729087
You are all niggers

>>131736612
But you left out Bezos and Zuckerberg..And they are lefties...

>>131736612
Bill Gates actually has two billion dollars more net worth

>>131736489
you do realise they're also going to gut Medicaid right?

The ACA has problems, do you solve those problems by shutting it down and turfing everyone out? Or adjusting it fund it better and cover more? Or maybe even instituting a national healthcare system?

>>131729087
Taxation is theft, you communist faggot
sage

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>>131736411
>>131736546
Do you have something to contribute?

>>131736599
every time you use wifi you're leeching off of aussie success :3

>>131736684
non aggression indeed

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>>131736765
>Donors at these events presumably are U.S. citizens who currently live in the countries where the events are held.
They're US citizens. Shocking
You got triggered over the word 'presumed' insisting this meant they weren't

>>131736966
that explains why it's so shit

>>131737002
when has that user claimed to be non aggressive?

>>131736858
they're not
Jeff Bezos the founder of Amazon is staunchly opposed to union organising
He is not a leftist
What you object to is and therefore define as left is anyone who doens't hold views as extreme as yours
So okay they don't have a problem with gays or transgendered or blacks or women, probably don't have a problem with abortion, probably don't want religion in school.
Middle of the road innocuous liberals
But not left wing

>>131737106
You got me. You win.
Now, about Obama 'gutting' Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae to pay for Ocare...Can you please comment on that?

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>>131736888
Not if its paying for things we all want and benefit from and understand improve society
Like when the Pentagon spent tax dollars on developing computer technology and the internet so people could someday sit around complaining about taxes being theft on the internet :3

>>131736803
>Changing the system protects the system?
Yes. Because now corporations just have diversity departments and can brag about obvious AA hires. Contrast this to the views of say Charles Murray, who wrote the socialist book The Bell Curve. He argued that we should transfer wealth and resources from high IQ people to low IQ people. He also showed how blacks have considerably lower IQs than whites. So, if we listened to Murray, people like Mark Zuckerberg would have to pay ghetto illiterates. Obviously we can't have that type of Rawlsian socialism, so Murray is lied about and called a white nationalist, and his work is defamed by SJW retards everywhere. This is how it works.

>>131736612
Still pales compared to the power the left has, considering they own the media, the internet (google, YouTube, Facebook ) and every public minded big corporations. The 899 million claim you make, I have to verify it since you didn't produce any proof. Bill gates is richer than the bros, and he's certainly a lefty in deeds, people like Zuckerberg, Bezos and Musk (not as rich but very influential). Your mind is stuck in the Bush era it seems.

>>131737208
Its funded from taxes on high end equipment and higher incomes
If it took some of that from mac and mae, well I never said the ACA was perfect did I? Its an improvement, its coverage for people who didn't have it before.
If there are adjustments needed do you turf everyone out and also shut down Medicaid while you're at it? And cause maybe tens of thousands of deaths?
How 'bout them death panels?

>>131737201
You have no idea what my views are. They are definitely not extreme.
I think the whole political structure is and has been corrupt to the core. It won't change until comprehensive campaign finance laws are enacted, term limits, and stop lobbyists from writing legislation.
I think EVERY candidate in the 2016 election needs to be investigated for finance violations, foreign collusion, etc. Then every person in the House and Senate.
Throw every crooked politician in jail, and have a do-over.
Those are my 'extreme' views.
We had two choices this election, because THEY wanted us to have two choices. They always only allow the two choices in every election, even down to the District Atty races (which, btw, big money is investing in now).
Done.

>>131729087
>How can it be tolerated that a cabal of a few ultra-wealthy businessmen dictate policy in the United States?

It's almost as if they're part of some sort of group which cooperates to the detriment of all other groups. Like some sort of religion for rich people.

>>131737304
>charles murry and the bell curve are socialist
lolwut mate, that shit is more discredited than Andrew Wakefield. Fucking educate yourself fool.
Anyway, diversity departments? PR. As I said. So you can fixate on that as the be all and end all of all lifes problems or address whats going on.

>>131737418
Stopped medicaid expansions.
Taking from freddie and fannie is/was illegal. You brush that off like the billions they took was nothing.
Having an Ocare card doesn't mean you can afford treatment, premiums, or deductibles. 1500/mo premium with 15k deductible? Are you joking?

>>131734255
Establishment dems should be thrown from helicopters and also Sjws are low key fascists. I'm a lefty libertarian.

How typical that (((Mayer))) writes a book about the only example of right-wing billionaires heavily involved in politics and yet not a word about the much more numerous and influential members of her tribe who have been calling the shots for decades (Soros, Saban, Adelson, Bloomberg, Zuckerberg, Rothschilds..)

>>131737418
And the states can use their fed funds to bolster medicaid.
But, only if they stop the funding of sanctuary cities and paying legal defense funds for illegal immigrants.

>>131736803
He does have a point
A few years back in my country there were massive protests in favour of gay marriage at the very same time our army went to wreck shit up in Mali
The identity issues are minor stuff and they have been hijacked and perfectly incorporated into the status quo discourse

>>131737415
having first denied it you now try to minimise its impact
When the facts show otherwise
And what left? What power of the left?
I didn't produce any proof? Look at the very first post: Jane Mayer - Dark Money
Or you could look it up yourself.
>Musk
>left
This is just getting pathetic
Again, opposes union organising
His sollution to labor disputes about rosters and workplace accidents is to offer people free frozen yogurt and a roller coaster
The mans delusional
Not as much as you of course
What did I say before?
>What you object to is and therefore define as left is anyone who doens't hold views as extreme as yours
>So okay they don't have a problem with gays or transgendered or blacks or women, probably don't have a problem with abortion, probably don't want religion in school.
>Middle of the road innocuous liberals
They are centre-right
Here, read Nader: https://theintercept.com/2017/06/25/ralph-nader-the-democrats-are-unable-to-defend-the-u-s-from-the-most-vicious-republican-party-in-history/

>>131734798
Red snappers are literally an invasive species and are basically the cockroaches of the northern gulf. Why we can't just fish them into extinction is beyond me.

So rich liberals and conservatives pit alot of money into politics.
Jesus we didn't know this!

>>131737554
>lolwut mate, that shit is more discredited than Andrew Wakefield. Fucking educate yourself fool.
It is literally a socialist book. It isn't discredited. People literally lie about it. Or they give horrible arguements like Gould. Anyways, yes, Murray literally argues that we need to transfer wealth and resources from IQ people to low IQ people because the payoff from having an a high IQ keeps increasing. Since he also relates the fact that blacks are a whole standard deviation lower than whites, he ends up giving a roundabout argument for racial equality/equity. READ THE BOOK. Or at least do some independent research into it. This is a perfect example of SJW culture protecting the established order in society.

Charles Murray is literally a Rawlsian (John Rawls).

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Lefty rules for arguments...

>>131737605
so you fix the deductible costs by shutting it down and denying people care?
>>131737655
>anarcho capitalist flag
>I'm a lefty libertarian
lel

I keep reading, and keep understanding,

LIBERALS DO NOT KNOW WHO THEY ARE VOTING FOR OR WHY

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>>131737707
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2004/10/18/the-money-man
How typical (((you))) don't know what (((you're))) talking about
>only example
top kek
Melon Scaifes
Olins
Mercer
DeVos
Murdoch
etc

Benis :D

>>131737733
no more funding

what a garbage thread

>>131737841
>muh niggas
>muh j00s
>but what about these businessmen who aren't rightwing wackos so that means they're staunch leftists
etc

>>131737845
Been interesting chatting with you.
One final note: Bill hasn't passed yet, and won't until the R's do what Trump promised...health care for everyone.
Establishment R's are being given a chance to do the right thing, for once in their pathetic lives, and if they don't they will be voted out.
I know, I know...idealistic views. But, it's what a lot of us are counting on. And, as these investigations into the 2016 elections heat up, we will probably lose a lot of Dems, and hopefully some of the most retarded fuckers on the planet, the RINOs and the neocons.
Enjoy your evening (day).

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>>131737915
>vote for candidate vowing to repeal the ACA
>shocked they are going to lose healthcare services under this policy after the election
hmm

Lol, and they all support the liberal/socialist parties around the world, because the socialists raise taxes, while allowing the elites to avoid them. High taxes help maintain their monopolies, as high taxes eat up growing companies' cash. The growing companies are unable to grow and eat into the marketshare of the companies owned by the elites.

>>131738061
It was already explained to you about those leftist leaning billionaires.
And, not racist at all. Again, you didn't read my post about my views. Don't stereotype...makes you seem like a typical DemoNazi.
And, yes, the states can fund medicaid. Fact.

>>131738104
>One final note: Bill hasn't passed yet, and won't until the R's do what Trump promised...health care for everyone.
The man doesn't know what the words he spouts mean
And he supports this bill, he thinks its bigly no doubt
Their idea of care for everyone is people pick and chose on the market
And if you cant, its your own personal moral failing
>Establishment R's are being given a chance to do the right thing, for once in their pathetic lives, and if they don't they will be voted out.
What does that mean? They're voting for this bill
>I know, I know...idealistic views. But, it's what a lot of us are counting on.
That makes no sense

Ok, well we can disagree, but you have a bigger problem I guess.

Clinton's people put in a billion and a half.

Trump's raised 274 million.

And he won. By 9pm Eastern time.

>>131729087
tfw you read the liberal equivalent of milo's dangerous faggot book or other pop pundit work of literature that qualifies as anything other than a centrist tome merely divulging information for legitimate study and not ideological conditioning

there is to be an intellectual and then there is to be intelligent

It's not, less people are insured under Obamacare. The CBO predicted more people would be insured without Obamacare than the end result of Obamacare insured.

So now more people have INSURANCE, of course, because they had to buy it by law, but now they can't afford to get health CARE because deductibles went from $2,000 to $6,500. The poor get less care, more people go to emergency rooms and skip out on the bill due to Obamacare. There are places where you can't even buy insurance for 2018, you just have to pay the fine. It already failed and collapsed.

>>131738175
but they don't avoid
And America has major monopolies as businesses consolidate
Concentration of wealth is the natural outcome of unregulated capitalism

>>131734255
8shit (where you're from) does, go monologue with your fellow tards.

>>131738220
They are neither leftist or leftist leaning
God this shows how dumb Americans and their education system are
If you're not far right you're a leftist, lel

>>131738281
889 million raised by the Koch network

>>131738273
Now you're just being a sanctimonious schmuck. If you can't figure out Trump is playing the establishment in the open, for all of the world to see, then I can't help you.
Also, they just went on another 'vacation'...so healthcare isn't getting voted on again anytime soon. Enough Senators (R) have already said no.
But, you go ahead and start with the insults and I guess next, you'll play the racist or sexist card, so...fuck off.

>>131729087
you're a faggot

>>131736888
You're actually right and the society is so inequitable even given all the money they steal from me that I'm pissed off about it.

>>131738298
In English?
>>131738319
>people have lost coverage under the ACA
kek
>cant get insurance for 2018
Would you be offering insurance for 2018 with the republican senate and congress trying to shut it down?

>>131729087
>how can it be rectified
Total economic collapse.

>>131738441
>If you can't figure out Trump is playing the establishment in the open,
There is no 34H chess
He doesn't understand what he is saying or doing
And there are no insults you poor fragile snowflake

Koch bros were staunchly against Trump, they raised nothing for him.

>>131738550
>In English?
what a profoundly stupid thing to say. to discuss absolutely anything with you other than what i want on my cheeseburger would be thoughtwaste to me. have a nice life stupid

>>131738686
They spent 889 million the election
They were fine with him once became the main contender
Their man Pence is the VP, he is deep in their pocket
Trump is Raygun 2.0: he is the front man for the extremist agenda

>>131738730
then try to make sense

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>>131736411
>>131736684
>>131736733
>>131736769
>>131736834

>>131738831
i'm not your teacher. i assumed you were capable of understanding very simple ideas. was my wording above your grade level? let me rephrase:

i'll have a regular cheeseburger, a side order of fries, and a medium lemonade

>>131737845
In a truly anarcho capitalist state we could take up arms against the filthy corporate pigs if they violate the NAP. Also gays can get married, all drugs are legal and all individuals are equal, how is that not lefty?

>>131739022
the free helicopter ride maymay suggests otherwise

Here ya go, read

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/10/22/bernie-sanderss-inaccurate-claim-that-the-two-koch-brothers-will-spend-more-than-either-major-party-on-2016-elections/?utm_term=.e9010c640d0e

koch brothers did not give near 889 million LOL. Stop reading slate and politico.

I'm mostly leftish, but honestly i find the left wing a little insufferable. They are so smug, even if they are correct about things.

Never cared for there term feminist either, Equalist sounds much nicer and fairer.

>>131729087
> You have an entire board to post in

You have an entire internet. Lefties get the helicopter.

>>131739264
the koch network raised 889 million from the brothers and other donators
You're splitting hairs between them and their pals
6 of 1 or half a dozen of the other
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/26/koch-network-piggy-banks-closed-republicans-healthcare-tax-reform
>Nonetheless, Koch officials said that the network’s midterm budget for policy and politics is between $300m and $400m.
>The window for action may be even smaller, some Koch allies warned at the weekend retreat that drew roughly 400 participants to the heart of the Rocky Mountains. The price for admission for most was a pledge to give at least $100,000 this year to the Kochs’ broad policy and political network.
>he price for admission for most was a pledge to give at least $100,000

>>131739326
yeah yeah yeah, theres the ML, tankies, antifa/"SJW"
So what do you do, turn right? over personal issues? lolno. You just have to engage them.

By the way, do you think the "problem" with the current/modern left is they are looking for the big fight of their generation, and without one they are lashing out in lots of random directions?

It kind of feels all the big fights are resolved, except for the biggest one, that nobody wants to fight. That is the ultra wealthy. Who i honestly think are manipulating both the left and right into screaming at each other over tiny irrelevant details, drown out the reasonable voices, and ignore the big bad.

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>>131739455
>get the helicopter
theres that NAP again

>>131739088
*pulls over to the next window*

hi stupid where's my food?

>>131739579
Can somebody just hack the goldman Sachs and JP Morgan Chase servers and erase all private debt like in that one show? Take the power the elites have over us away and get engaged in civic politics again so we can actually run our own society?

>>131733421

Nothing more lefty than a leaf. Canada is toast Better start praying five times a day to the black cube in the desert.

>>131739579
The problem in general is a lack of organization or long term planning and goals
Its all focused on a big end all win - the election didn't deliver my hopes and promises, I pinned everything on this one act and it didn't work, its all shit lets go bash a fash
Thats the lashing out because nobody knows what the fuck

In America and Oz anyway, you seem to have shit together in England.

The election in 2016 had shit candidates because there is no day in day out organizing from the bottom up, in the community, in unions, in local elections, in state legislatures

So without that what else are you going to have but a Democrat party beholden to corporate interests and controlled by party bosses ensuring a neoliberal shill gets the nod?

The ultra wealthy are not manipulating 'the left', they control the centre-right neoliberals. The New Labor in England. Democrat Leadership Council in America. Labor Right in Oz
Thats where their money comes from obviously they're not going to oppose them
https://theintercept.com/2017/06/25/ralph-nader-the-democrats-are-unable-to-defend-the-u-s-from-the-most-vicious-republican-party-in-history/

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>>131729087
>If you find this intolerable please remember you have entire board to post in.
and you have the entire internet to post in
what's your point?

and let me just btfo your little "spread the wealth" argument real quick
taxing the rich doesn't work
you know what rich people do when taxes are too high?
they transfer their money to swedish bank accounts and move all their businesses elsewhere

there is literally nothing you can do to force them to pay taxes
the only intelligent thing to do is to make taxes for them reasonable so that they have reason to stay here, spend their money here, and build businesses here
this keeps more money in our economy and creates more jobs

lefties are idiots

>>131740063
and of course with this lack of focus or organising comes mass hysteria if you suggest that with no good options you should accept the lesser evil, fuck that, fuck millions of people needing the ACA or medicaid, fuck the environment - fuck it all I've got my PRINCIPALS!

Nope, that's exactly what happened this election. Shit candidates, meaning establishment, and then Trump.

The conservatives didn't want a moderate or a conservative who was going to lose, the only one being Ted Cruz. Hillary was such an elitest garbage throwaway hasbeen some dems went and voted Trump. Not hard to see. His win in 2020 will make 2016 look like he actually lost the first time. Prediction.

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>>131740151
Golden Age of Capitalism
end of WWII to mid/late 1970s
high taxation
high regulation of economy and industry
high intervention
consistent growth, consistent rise in living standards, lowest income bracket rose with highest income bracket

Their idea of reasonable is paying nothing. You cannot negotiate with radical extremists who want everything.

Stop sucking wealth creator dick and wake up

>>131729087
everyone comes here a lefty.

we were all 14 years old watching the daily show at one point

however, very few stay that way, at least with regards to things like race.

left wing politics and beliefs can not survive in an environment of anonymity as they require some form of continuous identity to thrive.

when they have a name, be it "John Doe" in real life or "JohnDoe24" on the internet, then they can shame that person into compliance by calling them a racist/sexist/capitalist etc.

or threatening their jobs/lives/families. heh.

however, on a forum like 4chan, that is not possible. there is no static identity for posters. in this system, every idea must stand on its own.

this is a meritocracy of ideas.

that is why this place is right wing, racist, etc. because all of that stuff is true, and objectively real, whereas leftism is a structure built on guilt, group identity, and genocide.

it is a system of death claiming to be based on kindness.

you'll see.

>>131740151
That's bullshit if the government's going to steal my income and shit it all over the Military Industrial complex the elite fucks that orchestrate the whole shebam can deal with their pocket change coming loose. Not like they don't rig it to benefit them anyways, funding both sides of the wars and ALEC etc. they're basically paying maintenance fees on their own machine. Atlas shrugged is a fucking joke I hope they take my debt with them when they leave.

>>131740447
been here and /new/ for years
if anything its made me more left

>>131740477
nice meme

>>131736876
The ACA is unconstitutional and should have never been made in the first place. Its very existence is an affront to the spirit of this nation and to every man that understands what the word freedom means. I wouldn't expect a foreigner or a leftist to understand either of those things, though.

Also, this is the most elaborate troll thread that I've seen in a long time. Well done, would call you a faggot again/10

>>131729850
>>131729986
>>131730048
>>131730125
>>131730303
>>131730378
>muh koch brothers

Koch brothers>soros

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>>131741175
>The ACA is unconstitutional and should have never been made in the first place.
nigga pls
>Its very existence is an affront to the spirit of this nation and to every man that understands what the word freedom means. I wouldn't expect a foreigner or a leftist to understand either of those things, though.
Society helping one another and less advantaged is an affront to the spirit of this nation and to every man that understands what the word freedom means.

How about maintaining a standing peacetime military?
How about using military spending to hide the government subsidizing hightech R&D?
How about COINTELPRO?
How about an elite few having enormous unaccountable power of society, is that an affront to the spirit of the nation?

>>131741261
>You might say, "well hold on a minute what about George Soros?" True enough, in the 2004 election the height of his political involvement he spent 20 million dollars campaigning against George Bush. In the 2016 election the Koch brothers and their donor network raised 889 million to campaign for Republican candidates.

lrn2read

>>131741815
Nigger, then ACA is unconstitutional on its face. That's why they couldn't pass it the first time and had to go back and sneak it through as a tax (which is literally theft). It was designed from its onset to fail because it is a weapon meant to cripple our nation, it was never about people having health care.

To answer all.of your faggot questions, ALL of those thing are affronts to the spirit of this nation and most of them are unconstitutional.

Not that any of that has anything to do with what we were talking about (the ACA), you goal post moving, cunt of a faggot. The REAL solution to all of these problems and more is the second amendment. Government niggers can't fuck me over if they're fucking dead.

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>>131742641
>It was designed from its onset to fail because it is a weapon meant to cripple our nation

I hope America some day has national healthcare before its too late, then people like yourself can get the mental health treatment you need :3

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>>131738834
Saved
>>131737002
>Not knowing the difference between lolbertarians and NatSocs

>>131742895
Bruh, you got #rekt. Stay salty. Real niggas don't give a shit about your faggot bullshit. The truth is that america doesn't need health care because we have guns. Real freedom literally means that might makes right. If I don't like what you do/say I will fucking kill you. THAT is the heart of the american spirit. THAT is why we are the greatest nation on God's flat earth :3

>>131729087
Sage

>>131743181
Going by those standards, you can walk into a hospital and force them to treat you and your family at gunpoint?

KYS

>>131738273
>Their idea of care for everyone is people pick and chose on the market
>And if you cant, its your own personal moral failing
where do you draw the line? rockefeller spent a billion to make it 100 years, is that how much the taxpayer owes to each person so they wont be accused of immorality by australia?

>>131743332
You literally can do that, there is nothing stopping you except your fear of the consequences. If you want to get away with it though you might need more people with guns to fight the police when they come to stop you.

>>131740209
And of course plenty of leftists are up to forming a protest on a weekend with their #quippy signs, but committing to a grassroots movement is too hard.

Though in all fairness, unless you can live on handouts, or have someone supporting you, its pretty impossible to commit to a movement in an environment where the only places people pay attention have almost criminal cost of living.

>>131740424
>muh rich were taxed 90%!
yeah... no that figure is widely innaccurate and the rich in reality were not taxed anywhere near that
not even half
and the majority of revenue for the government came from taxes from the middle class because the middle class held most of the wealth back then

>>131740615
did you not read anything i said?
you CANT tax the rich no matter what you want to do you faggot
you raise the taxes they leave
guess what that means? you get nothing

>>131743761
>MUH KOCH BROTHERS

Sure is DailyKos circa 2012 in here.

>No immigrants
>Low GDP growth

>No immigrants
>Minimum wage pushed up too high

>No immigrants
>Lower land values AND consumption

>No immigrants
>Less ethnically diverse
>Too much money spent on welfare

Glad to be with fellow /leftypol/acks who actually understand economics. Three cheers for our modern heroes! Merkel and Macron! Nazis watch out!

>>131729087
>ultra-wealthy businessmen dictate policy in the United States

Hehe good goy

yes because bringing in hundreds of thousands of "refugees" is going to stimulate the economy as the seek "benefits" that you will pay for.

It's perfect logic to me.

>>131743841
no idea wtf you just said

dailyKos is a liberal site that speaks to pretty much everything being regurgitated here.

>>131729087
Communist cunts

>>131729087
Implying Trump forgot Soros

>>131742929
well when you use their symbols how can I

>>131744670
Brainlet

>>131743181
>if spout paranoid nonsense you are rekt
no, not really
> The truth is that america doesn't need health care because we have guns.
What does that even mean?
"I've got cancer and cant pay bills but at least I have a gun"
What does that even mean you incompetent fool.
>If I don't like what you do/say I will fucking kill you.
Look at this literal snowflake killing people for triggering
Cry more bitch

>>131743518
make what 100 years?
>>131743551
what if you all just pooled your resources and funded doctors and specialists and clinics and hospitals?

>>131738355
>Concentration of wealth is the natural outcome of unregulated capitalism
Weirdly enough the most extreme concentration of wealth happens under communism

right because the govt owns everything.

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>>131743597
I dont think it means stopping work or dropping out of society
>>131743761
Where did I say 90%?
It was something like 77 or 78%

It was over 90% during WWII

You are right though that wealth wasn't concentrated
Because the richer were taxed more :3
>>131743841
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/26/koch-network-piggy-banks-closed-republicans-healthcare-tax-reform
>>131743993
lolwut
>>131744071
Well you sure proved me wrong
>>131744110
The refugees from Syria aren't coming to America
If you're so concerned about them coming into Europe - how does that affect Americas social policies I dont know but I'm sure you have some sort of echo chamber link proving the connection - then maybe like, I dunno, try to stop supporting the civil war and bombing the country and causing people to flee?
>>131744310
It also hasn't been cited once, you're the first to mention it
ad hom straw man
saying things like this allows you to not have to think about things
>>131744384
thanks for the contribution
>>131744460
He spent 20 million in 2004 election
Koch brothers spent 889 million in 2016 election
>>131744717
>you should totally be able to tell the difference between two groups using the same symbols and yellow/black flag you fucking moron
:(

>>131745266
You are honestly a brainlet. Half of the posts you replied to are bait. The rest you clearly didn't understand.

>>131733421
Being against idpol and globalists isn't PC approved.

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>>131745422
>I was just acting like a retard to troll you

>>131729087
Or you could just go to Reddit where you have a whole site to spout your bullshit

>>131745586
Welcome to 4chan

>>131744775
>>131744857
> blah blah blah I'm a giant fucking faggot
If some faggot is FORCING me to pool my resources at gun point (taxation) then there is nothing morally wrong with killing them.
Also, just because you're trolling or completely unaware that you're a fucking retard doesn't mean you didn't get rekt. I rationally explained to you why you were wrong. Now I'm resorting to calling you a faggot.
I don't care about any of your faggot weasel words because if push came to shove, if you brought that soft cunt shit here to my face and tried to enslave me with your leftist bullshit I would cut your fucking throat and scalp you because I am a free man.
Now if you're wondering why I don't kill the government niggers it's because might makes right and they have me out gunned
> flag

>>131745656
those same taxes developed the computer technology and internet you now use to complain about taxes

that health service helps you too, you do understand that right?

>I rationally explained
You didn't rationally explain dick
You rambled on some stupid retarded conspiracy theory about dark forces trying to destroy America, this is the same ignorant cabal plots people have been believing in for over 150 years to rationalize their own belligerence and violence and ignorance

>I don't care about any of your faggot weasel words because if push came to shove, if you brought that soft cunt shit here to my face and tried to enslave me with your leftist bullshit I would cut your fucking throat and scalp you because I am a free man.

The empty vessel makes the most noise, if you're not trolling you're disturbed.

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>>131729087

yes. wealth is virtue. poverty is a crime. it is from our christian heritage.

>>131745941
based Korean

>>131745889
> implying I give a shit about computers or health care
> implying the plot to destroy america isn't playing out before our eyew for tje whole world to see
> implying being disturbed and/or violent isn't the natural human condition
> implying that foreign trash has any understanding of what it means to be american
> implying that you won't meet your end at the hands of a savage when your leftist thinking hands your nation over to chaos

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>>131731907

NAP only applies to humans.

>>131729087
good topic, however it seems like spin when you focus solely on the insane cock bruthaz and republican donors.

also, it is well established that it's virtually impossible to keep track of the finances of the top billionaires so how accurate are these numbers?

if Koch's donate X amount of money to certain politicians because have aligning interests in legislation, while Soros donates Y but also injects Z into 10-20 seemingly benign NGO's who work on legislation Soros is interested in.

Are these differences in approach accounted for in the numbers you are touting? Also, if https://www.opensecrets.org/outsidespending/summ.php?disp=D is correct, your line of narrative is crumbling here.

We agree on the problem, but not on the partisan aspect of it.

>>131729087
By ending the state, so certain businesses won't have priviliges on the market.

Because the reason for the problem you stated is that the state and huge corporations work together in order to be able to keep their monopolies.

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Not this gay shit again.

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Marx's ideas have been disproven.

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Capitalism has never turned society fascist. Au contraire, it has created democracy in dictatorships.

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Marxists, however, have turned into literal fascists, like pic related.

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Other marxists have implemented policies indistinguishable from that off nazi germany. Pic related.

>>131729087
>Aussie
>Lefty

This is some next level shitposting

>>131745941
First of all there is no such thing as trickle down theory, second how can it be a redistribution of wealth when you Lee stealing less of someone's wealth? That's not a redistribution, that's allowing people to keep what they've earned

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Marx was also wrong that poverty would increase.

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Here's another graph proving that.

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inb4
>b-but muh soviet official statistics and projections !!!11

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>>131729087
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-mega-donors-helped-raise-1-billion-for-hillary-clinton/2016/10/22/a92a0ee2-9603-11e6-bb29-bf2701dbe0a3_story.html?utm_term=.3e448b78dd50

>>131747872
> 77 posts by this id
You ain't fucking lying, nigga

>>131736165
This is where you lose credibility, your fine with global oligarchs running everything so long as you're told by the media it's beneficial to your cause. Assholes like you are first against the wall when any sort of revolution occurs.

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>>131737750
> ralph nader
it's the 80's again! how'd that 1.5 billion chrysler bailout work for ya? sure helped the working class didn't it
> What power of the left?
I'm curious about this part, since it seems communists ironically only care about where the money is coming from. If we stop tallying up rich billionaires and their public politics, how about those things the other anon mentioned? universities, media, NGOs, and pretty much at least a 75 year winstreak on every public sphere.

the more i think about it the more i wonder if being up against overwhelming might is actually a prerequisite of being a commie

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>>131745889
> taxes developed the computer technology and internet
I honestly think this is about as rock bottom as it gets. The man believes that free association means greed and exploitation, while high taxation and RIGHTEOUS GOVERNMENT ALLOCATION can give us the internet. You are so utterly unaware of the history of technology and what free enterprise has given us that it hurts. But it's true that if something was forced on us by goverment, there is no way for me to convince you that it would otherwise exist. Other than, you know, history, but in that case you could argue that things are different now. People are retarded and there's automation or something.

>>131749984
> people are retarded
This is why option of scalping a nigga should never be taken off the table. The threat of gruesome violence keeps that faggot shit in check.

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>>131750506
yeah i'm very partial to hoppe physical removal, but at the same time OP might help me understand the mindset a little better. It's so outlandish here and there that you have to give communism credit for even making it appear coherent. They've managed to convince whole swaths of populations that progress comes as manna from heaven once...well i'm not sure once what, but once the government controls everything. Maybe he has more of an explanation of why government is so much more effective than freedom to the point where violence is okay to even maintain it. At least with libertarians they keep the violence as a threat.

>>131747772
Hitler was a capitalist, he was also a fascist. Political structure and economic ideology are two separate things, I would not expect a libtard to understand this separation.
>>131747679
>Capitalism has never turned society fascist. Au contraire, it has created democracy in dictatorships.

LOL

what are the puppet states implemented by american intervention.

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Hey guys, I'm glad we finally have a space on here in addition to having all of social media and virtually every other popular site on the internet.

OK, so first order of business for me is how we are going to stop people from using the n-word here.

Also, can anybody recommend me a good cock cage? My wife says I shouldn't even be able to get hard when I watch her fuck the bull this weekend. Thanks in advance :3

>>131751318
is... is this anon saying that puppet states are a capitalistic invention/approach?

> outside observer, popcorn
>Itt right wing neoplebs use public wifi to attack facts they dont like with hate and baseless vitriol, doing as their rich overlords indoctrinated them to do through a decade or more diet of fox news and poverty
>pick pockets of the white man so long as he's a black to look down on etc

>>131751799
Im saying that capitalism is not immune to creating dictatorships.

Saudi is a facist state propped up by capitalism, for example.

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>>131752108
> thinks he's a smartarse by sucking marx's cock on capitalist oppression
> calls it """fact""" and unironically complains about indoctrination
> no original thoughts of his own but here he is anyway, repeating what we've heard his kind say for about 100 years now

>>131731907
Apparently not. Having the wrong thoughts disqualifies you from the NAP. Totally not Orwellian and totalitarian though...

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>>131752452
well they are certainly not immune, but you have to get your head out of your ass if you think they are somehow a capitalist thing. EVERY government fucks around like this, it's just one small step down from overt imperialism. The commies were still actual imperialist, at least the saudis are pretty much sovereign. They are not being "propped up" by capitalism, they keep existing because we want to keep buying their shit. Capitalism is not the fucking idea of trade in general, and it's also not the essence of "greedy corruption" in general. Let me guess, you suggest that the saudis would fall if capitalism fell, because nobody would be allowed to vent their greed for oil, right? Wrong. It's a bit like how "wealth inequality" (wtf?) is a bad capitalist thing, while literally all gommie countires had such a filthy rich upperclass it's even more embarassing. And what's worse, all they had to do to get that money was "govern" (and be faithful).

You shouldn't get shit in /pol/ kys fkn fgt

>>131733421
Typical tv news sources are never this critical of corporate influence on politics. The democrats are basically moderate republicans now. Arguing this stuff now typically gets you shouted down as a communist.

>>131731907
>>131752687
i understand that you're trying to be a smartarse, but the NAP gets violated precisely when you make a pass at someone's private property. And yes, your "totally not orwellian and totalitarian" liberatarian state has pretty much one goal: protect land, protect property. It's ironic that this sets off your inner authority radar, but the vast vistas of government intervention programs are not authoritarian because.... well, because they're "for the people" ?
anyway, wrongthink doesn't violate the NAP and I don't even like lolbertarians that much. it's the gommie business that forbids heresy.

>>131729087
>. If you find this intolerable please remember you have entire board to post in.
lmao, shut the fuck up fagot. stop acting like tis is plebit
i can come here and tell you to fuck off and that doesnt mean i give a shit about what you say
fucking fagot

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>>131752973
there might be a new tack you could try: totally reject democracy. A lot of libertarians recognize the fuckery going on in crony capitalism, but they blame that on the EXISTENCE of the state. The reasoning here is that companies are basically non-human entities constrained heavily in their actions by the munniez (i.e. CEO with integrity will lose if given the option of getting in bed with government). Since they are basically in the business of engineering society, they diagnose this problem as one of government. After all, no government, no crony capitalism. The other half of this coin (no capitalism) makes no sense to most people, but it might be a point of agreement between the gommies and the lolberts. Both want to destroy the monopolies that government offers to corporations. Why not destroy both and get rid of democracy? That seems like a peanuts revolution compared to the sea of blood gommies will have to wade through to get what they want tbhfam

>>131752790

nowhere did I suggest this.

if you had any reading comphresion (clearly not) you would notice I said;

>Political structure and economic ideology are two separate things.

yet you suggest my point is literally the opposite of what I said.

confirmation bias + propaganda at work.

>>131752529
> Lives in most Marxist degenerate state with europe
> afraid walk outside wothout tripping over immigrant or druggie who will legally squat in empty home
> biggest fear is rising sea levels
> denies climate change while wearing scuba suit

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>>131753300
> blah blah you misunderstand me i'm actually supernuanced and you are a retard
ok mate, hf

>>131734481
>dark money
>individual donors

>>131745084
Not true. Not even close in most cases. In the USSR for example, there was inequality between the average citizen and the upper Party member, but the gap wasn't anywhere near the gap between the rich and the poor in most capitalist countries.
>inb4 Daily Fail articles
>inb4 muh North Korea, which abandoned Marxism-Leninism years ago

Campaign finance reform has been proven to be a gigantic meme by the left who want to rewrite the rules so THEIR millionaires and billionaires are able to influence politics.

You should be more concerned about corporations like CNN doing it.

>>131747924
Marx actually claimed that the development of capitalism reduced poverty. He said poverty would increase as capitalism became less and less sustainable as time went on.

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>>131753318
> In denial over UK's race to the bottom with sweden and germany
> has only ever seen amsterdam and figures he knows the beautiful lowlands
> doesn't realize islam is biggest fear and scuba is our way to cope
> still patiently waiting for brexit to maybe be allowed by mama merkel

>>131753414

>i cant address anything you're saying and im not going to read it either


haha you got me buddy

>>131729087
Fuck off faggot.

>>131753610

What is upward mobility

The rich are mostly left wing elite that stay in power and stay rich so they can use their corporations to tell the masses that there is a struggle beteeen rich and poor.

It's by design. That asshole in Venezuela is doing it by blaming his tenure on right wing capitalists making his country poor.

It's so bad that his government can't even feed the people who want to overthrow the communists.

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>>131753610
interesting how you talk of inequality while all the means of production have been seized and property is literally theft. how'd you figure, anon? perhaps there was some shining opulence surrounding the party members? some obvious abuse of resources? inequality is a retarded metric to begin with, you should care about poverty, but since we're playing this game: actually yes, inequality was LARGER in commie countries. now we can fight over the right metric. Bill gates' billions (earned) compared to 100k/yr is not similar to 10k compared to $1, but have at it.

>>131729850
>>131729986
>>131730048
>>131730125
>>131730303
>>131730378
Both sides of the "political spectrum" are all playing the same game of "mah profits" "mah power". Some do it in different ways than others. But ultimately they all trade with each-other and have pretty much the same goals regardless of left vs right, liberal vs authority.

Ultimately they all employee divide and conquer tactics on people. /pol/ is a prime example of people being divided on retarded lines of politics (right-libertarian vs left-libertarian etc).

>>131731866
This basically.

>>131752976
wtf are you on about

>>131754153
>both side of the *elite "political spectrum"

>>131753955
the whole notion that inequality is somehow bad, immoral, poor engineering, whatever, is stupid. I've never made any headway into this argument of theirs, it seems to be one of the core tenets. For example, consider that anon defending the 'inequality' of party members compared to starving peasants. This is not the same kind of inequality somehow, since the party member did not exploit anyone, he literally stole it. And he stole it because he is trying to do good with it for the peasant, making it also a bit the peasant's money. Something like that seems to be the Gestalt of this utopia, and why property is not necessary

>>131754153
> it's all just divide and conquer
> everybody is just as evil and wants the same things
> why even bother man, thank god i'm above all that
> did i say above all that? i meant i factually analyzed the rational situation and concluded my logical arguments from it
moral relativism pls go

>>131729087
Fascism is the solution

>>131754259
NAP isn't violated by wrongthink, protecting property is not orwellian. better?

>>131754341
>>131754068
>>131753955
I wasn't saying that the inequality in the USSR was justified. I was just saying that the level of inequality in the USSR was probably lower than in most capitalist countries.

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>>131754849
ah, i'm sorry for the aggression in that case. I still believe you're mostly wrong though. Inequality was actually much bigger, certainly poverty was and I happen to believe shiny limos are doubleplus worse when peasants are eating their own children, but it's hard to have a discussion about this since the right metric can't be found. We cant even figure out if a Bill Gates is worse than when that money is distributed over a family, let alone a party literally in lock-step with each other. Anyway, even according to modern "income inequality" metrics the USSR did not do well, but i don't have the stats at hand now. Still, it's hard to do an analysis like that in a country where force rules the land, not money. For instance, what does it matter how much income you have if you are forced at gunpoint to buy a surplus of shoes since the government fucked up?

>>131754491
>Everyone is evil...
I don't think I even implied that
>...and wants the same things
That's taking what I said out of context. Elite do want the same thing, power and money. I didn't say *everyone as in all people want this.
>I'm above all that
Are you implying I'm above elite, corruption, money&power. That I think I'm morally superior or something?
>moral relativism
No it isn't.

>>131732127
Look at his little tiny liberal clit. Lmao. Liberals a such garbage. kys niggers

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>lefty garbage thread
>checks flag

I had a feeling this was some elaborate ruse

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>>131755238
No, I think you've hoisted yourself onto your own intellectual petard and have convinced yourself that you've found a neutral vantage point of true observation. Your analysis of "everyone wants money/power" is not deep insight, it is shallow abstraction. It's a bit like saying "everyone is out for themselves", which is great, but leaves the problem of political organization open. I poked fun at your cliché comment. You waved your hand over OP's posts and this thread and declared that both sides are playing the same money/power game. That sounds like high school. I also think it's moral relativism though, since I don't think it's an objective matter like you suggest, but that's less important. There's always people going "both sides are similar" or "muh horseshoe" and all sorts of centrist/neutral objective stuff. Just a bit of bants mate.

Ahahaha

Who even brought up communism? How does having a national healthcare system make you communist?
Why is it communist, to not want a few rich people to control everything, and make it harder for other people to succeed and get rich?

You guys are fucking crazy, good luck, I would've literally blown up my school if I was born in a shithole like america.

>>131755746
>Why is it communist, to not want a few rich people to control everything, and make it harder for other people to succeed and get rich?
as a first step towards becoming less of a faggot, i would suggest not using the official PR line to describe what you want from government. How retarded are we to oppose something so obviously wonderful for the poor and weak, and damaging to the rich and evil? But anyway, keep aligning your compass using your morals and what the politicians tell you is their intent (heaven on earth). Alternatively, you could consider still blowing yourself up but preferably somewhere far away from the beautiful danish culture

you fucking idiots have said Trump was controlled by Russia, Pence, Hillary, Bannon, and others. now you're trying to start a Trump is controlled by the Koch brothers narrative? you're lucky you're base is so fucking retarded

>>131756079
You literally didn't answer anything I said, but you did sound very smart, not answering any of my queries, well done anon, I guess you showed my cuck leftie brain!

"Beautiful danish culture" we have literally been stuck worshipping a false version of our own history, because of a few danish poets, who were depressed that we lost a war with germany.
Legit, danish culture has been slowly declining over the last few hundred years, there's nothing left to define us.
I bet you're a real expert on our beautiful danish culture though! I'd love for you to teach me anon

>>131756079
Also you're from one of the few European countries, arguably more "progressive" than my beautiful socialist paradise of a denemark.

>>131755707
Then yes, I agree with you. I wasn't trying to give a deep or meaningful insight.
I am aware that it was a large generalisation.

I wasn't prepared to write an essay.

>>131756357
i had no intention of answering you, you made a retarded "hahah" comment about this thread saying some stupid shit about commiunism
> danish culture is dying
ok, so go and save it
> I'd love for you to teach me anon
still with the snark, what'd you wanna know?

>>131756624
fair enough, i'd say " both sides X" and similar comments are kind of a meta-meme about centrists by now. they tend not to advance the thread/discussion but instead call everyone involved equally corrupt/idiotic. like "muh horseshoe" and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB_omHQwYh8 write that essay!

>>131729087
Billionaire money? George Soros - Nazi collaborator

>>131756463
are you trying to insult me or something? is that what you came into this thread for? guess your snark about communism weren't actually questions? anyway yeah, we're a social democrat hellhole with all the problems associated. i still love my people and my culture though. So what are you suggesting? are you happy that danish culture is dying then? cut out the snark man

>>131757128
to be fair, socialism probably isnt such a bad idea..... in a homogeneous society

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>>131729087
I got banned on /leftypol/ for derailing threads.
They took the bait so hard
kek

>>131756881
Maybe when I haven't had a few beers.

GAS THE JEWS
RACE WAR NOW
FUCK NIGGERS
FUCK MUSLIMS
FUCK ANTIFA
INSTALL THE FIFTH REICH NOW

>>131757016
Soros the same nazi collaborator who funds antifa.

>>131757128
There are some things to be said for it, although there is still the uncomfortable historical fact that free enterprise kind of seems to be the antidote to human suffering (poverty). More importantly i would say that homogeneity is not just crucial, but that you can actually destroy the system by making it too large. America is too diverse for anything of the sort. Democracy is basically only feasible when people are already in agreement, but that's not what it's used for. It's used specifically to protect and help and further minorities. But anyway, personally I believe that such homogeneous societies flourished mostly in spite of the state, not because of it. Socialists sometimes point to important projects like infrastructure of military spending during a war and how it can improve GDP and all that, but my impression is that government contribution to mankind is a drop in a bucket of free enterprise miracles. That's not so strange considering that innovation doesn't care about how good your intentions are. You won't make a better car engine cause you really really want poor people to drive faster. My view is that industrious, homogeneous and strong people can withstand the inefficiencies and retardation of socialism, but are rarely improved by it compared to what could have been with more freedom. Pointing out what the gov has built (with stolen money, overpriced) is not really a great argument in favor of less freedom just cause we can't see what that would have produced.

>>131757755
Correct!

Used to fund black lives matter before Hussain left the white house.

>>131729087
wtf I hate conservative ideas now! I'm ready to commit ethnic and cultural suicide now, thanks leftypol

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70.fucking.7

>>131729087
>how can we further eliminate the white race inside their own countries?
>how can we further "liberate" women into positions of prostitution?
>how can we destroy nations from within by ignoring immigration laws and letting anyone with two feet walk into our country?
>how can we eliminate nationalism, and with it the spirit of a nation?
>how can we censor dissenting opinions to establish our communistic ideals, hidden behind the veil of the term "Democratic"?

More importantly
>how can we stop Drumpf???

ITT

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>>131757398
you put your countrymen to shame with your manners

>>131757325
>>131757946
replied to msyelf like a moron

>>131739022
its not lefty...but you being retarded might make you one

for reference:
>left-right: economic leanings
>up-down: authoritarian-libertarian (general social matters)

gays getting married/drugs are not left-right matters. though you somehow you want an anarcho-capitalist state and yet spout "everyone is equal" when the very idea of specialization of the division of labor literally requires the opposite.

additionally, libertarians hate crony-capitalism (induced by the state) but your "filthy corporate pigs" statement indicates that you have a general disdain for any large private entity as well.

please read more on what you are claiming to represent as a true anarcho capitalist is about as far right and down as humanly possible

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People still believe in the right vs left conspiracy?

>>131758943
they're (strangely effective) categories for discussion, not the substrate of reality.

>>131759214
>strangely effective
It's more effective to talk about things we all agree on like the topic OP posted, instead of the first two sentences he posted. Corruption is not either left or right. It's both left and right. Both parties are complete sellouts to corporations and meanwhile on /pol, I read through threads and threads, where people willingly box themselves into a category, so they can argue with each other. Can't imagine who benefits from that. OP is being either purposefully divisive or too autistic.

>>131729087
FUCK OFF BACK TO YOUR OWN BOARD

>>131732039
Why is this bad?

Are you making the assumption that taxation and government programs benefit people more than charities or government programs and the expansion of the government is superior to allowing individuals to choose to help others instead of the government forcing others?

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>>131729087
Kys kike

>>131760399
well that´s certainly true but it´s not very wise to consider that the fault of the words themselves. Politics in the public sphere is complete emotional cancer, that doesnt mean we should do away with the terms. We actually don´t have a lot of things `we all agree on`, especially with leftypol, so i think we´re gonna have to wade through this low/level analysis. Remember that most of their worldview is based on who is doing the ´corrupt´ stuff, so it is actually very telling and relevant. Similarly, libertarians consider the problems with central planning obvious.

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>>131761747
>Kys
degenerate
>>>/b/
sage

What do leftypol threads think about automation and robots that are coming in our lifetime? Considering that our politicians across the left vs right scale are bought and paid for, only serving the interests of corporations, what happens to the plebs? We going to get NGO charities for all the people out of work? UBI so our country can look like a Native American reservation or welfare ghettos? Let's take the "cabal of a few ultra-wealthy businessmen" a step further into our not so distant future.

>>131729087
Your side is just as bad, if not worse.

Just fuck off and die