Why is healthcare so expensive /pol/?

>>131678587

Because people value their health.

File: 1497636404885.png (321KB, 900x1000px) Image search: [Google]

321KB, 900x1000px

>>131678587
The infamous pharmaceutical monopoly and the lobbying of the insurance companies that piggy-back on the fruits of such a stratagem.

We don't have the means of the financial advantage to encourage off-shore companies to compete and therefore were in a modicular cycle of ways to fight it.

who cares post jack webms

Because its expensive for the hospitals to hire doctors, who has spent the last 10 years amassing a huge debt during their studies.
A lot of expensive research and equipment.
And a lot of legal protection for when a doctor fucks up.

So what is a solution to lowering cost of healthcare, especially life-saving drugs or treatments like Chemotherapy or Remicade?

Because it takes over a decade to become a medical doctor.

Same reason lawyers charge a lot of money, only even more so.

>>131681261
Deregulate the health insurance industry and separate it from employers. Now everybody pays for their health insurance as they pay for their auto insurance.

bloodwork and imaging should be nationalized for Fed patients (medicare etc).

Otherwise, realize there is no 'market'. try to find pricing for any procedure and they'll quote you an astronomical price. most don't know you can ask for a discount (IF you're self-pay, uninsured). the scam is, quote a billion dollars, have patient negotiate down to what they can pay. maximized yaya.

fyi, insurance = you. moving the convo to discuss 'insurance' instead of 'you paying' is a way to obscure the how much of a clip joint the whole thing has become.

File: jackcheesecake.webm (3MB, 480x270px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 480x270px

The real question: Why is Ja/ck/ so kino?

>>131678587
You'd think you'd stop with the raw chicken after getting sick 4 times.

>>131682055
It's become a political battlefield because the government has involved itself so much. A "victory" for pharma is that hospitals can't bid on drugs or something like that. The point is that the mixed economy is driving up the price.

Because insurance drives up the cost, just like federal subsidies on college drive up the college cost.

Here is a kike explaining it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBxROPwxtwE

>>131682289
I agree partially, the payer with the most volume usually gets a volume discount, no?

Why is that not happening in medicine?

Why is there an artificial cap on the number of MDs created every year?

All private practices are closing (over the past 10+ years) due to regulation, they can't afford the staff/regulatory overhead. They're all consolidating into medical centers or large practice groups.

Why are we using the fee for service payment model? This is what mechanics do, why are we allowing DRs to treat humans like that?

>>131678587
>Why is healthcare so expensive /pol/?

Insurance and HMOs, mostly. Making healthcare profit-driven was questionable. Quality has gone up, but not nearly as steeply as costs have.

Some regulations like HIPAA are costly to administer.

There was also an outbreak of frivolous lawsuits in some areas of the country.

Making private insurance mandatory has made everything even worse.

File: 1495752514240.png (160KB, 500x464px) Image search: [Google]

160KB, 500x464px

>its a ja/ck/ posting thread

>>131681261
chemotherapy is a fucking coinflip, and a huge money making scheme in europe

>>131678587
It's too accessible.

>>131683160
>Why are we using the fee for service payment model?
Why would we not?

>>131683160
>Why is there an artificial cap on the number of MDs created every year?
Another side to the argument is that the health insurance companies are trying to flood the doctor market with chinks and poos.

But regardless, everything irrational is because of the government. They have the guns, so they don't have to be rational.

>>131678587
Because medical school costs a shitload of money. If Bernie Sanders became president and he made higher education tuition free, there would be more people going to medical school, which would create more competition in the market, which would drive down prices.

>>131678587
Niggercare

>>131683928
>If Bernie Sanders became president and he made higher education tuition free
sweetie...

>>131678587
Because healthcare is all about latest technologies. When something new, say the cancer drug is implemented its considered unethical to use the old treatment that provides the less chance for survival for a cheaper price. It also happens to be that US is responsible for ~99% of discoveries in the field of medicine in the last 100 years so their healthcare is more expensive while the rest of the world can just leech off them and save all that research money on salaries and upkeep of the medical facilities.

File: file.gif (2MB, 350x197px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 350x197px

>>131678587
Because every fat fucking American gets heart disease and diabeetus and expects normal healthy people to pay for their triple bypass.

>>131681261
>So what is a solution to lowering cost of healthcare, especially life-saving drugs or treatments like Chemotherapy or Remicade?

Subsidization and price controls. That might result in perverse incentives though so it's a double edged sword.

As much as everyone hates to hear this, we need to stop pushing eldercare costs off onto young people who have much lower incomes in the first place. It's just sacrificing their retirement for yours.

>>131678587
Intellectual property laws aren't helping

>>131678587
because niggers and kikes and illegals

>>131678587
#1 is insurance company parasitism. this cannot be understated. more than half of all 'cost of healthcare' is insurance companies getting paid for literally nothing.

#2 is supply of 'healthcare' generally being directly artificially constrained. Both in access to effective treatments being fought by pharma cartel (in favor of ineffective lifetime treatments), and ability to become a healthcare provider being fought by certain unions/professional organizations, and by the private colleges which have become the gatekeepers.

#3 (and it's a distant but still noteworthy third) is the existence of 'healthcare whales', single individuals who through either personal wealth or luck of the welfare-state lottery have come to consume an absurdly disproportionate percentage of healthcare resources. eg. anyone who has received multiple successive major organ transplants (which there are a SHOCKING amount of), people with multiple fulltime private nurses or physicians.

Ban the issuance of for-profit insurance policies of all kinds. Make access to certification (as a competent healthcare provider) open and affordable (anyone can schedule to come in and try to pass the tests, not only people who pay a private for-profit university $100k+).

>>131678587
Because the kikes have an army of uneducated rednecks to fight for them.

niggers are high time preference and incapable of taking care of their own health, resulting in disgustingly high medical expenses, and they never pay bills, of course.

illegals never pay bills and are dumped on the system

kikes are full of endless medical issues and rare genetic ailments which are a massive drain on the system. there are also a ton of sodomite kikes who are full of GRIDS, further putting a strain on the system.

If the kikes were not pushing for normalization of their degeneracy and flooding the system with other pieces of shit as well, then everyone would notice instantly that we were subsidizing the kike degeneracy.

>>131679080
>The infamous pharmaceutical monopoly and the lobbying of the insurance companies

/thread

>>131678587
>Why is healthcare so expensive /pol/?

massive profit margins for insurance selling companies.

inelastic demand for the product means that it doesn't follow normal economic supply and demand rules means it shouldn't be sold for profit on the free market.

>>131678587
Profit isn't free.

>>131684804
The leading role of the industrial food system, in favoring production of soy, corn and cereal grains instead of vegetables and fruits, is suspiciously absent from your critique.

>>131678587
because you guys think that having a good healthcare system and ANY kind of social safety net is "le socialism XDDDDDDDD"

>>131686308
Yes, America is a permanent late-Renaissance fair that takes itself far too seriously.

>>131686308
hey hey now... Insurance companies paid good money to propagandize me into thinking socialized health care is literally Hitler and I don't take kindly to information that contradicts what I've been brainwashed into believing.

>>131683928
Except we would all go broke and not be able to afford anything. 75% income tax won't help us out any.

>>131683129
Actually not a bad explanation. Thanks!

>>131683395
True but it can help some people.

>>131686308
Never said that. I'm in favor of social healthcare in some ways. For life-saving drugs or if you get into an accident, if you cannot pay, the government should try to cover the cost in some way. If the prices weren't so high, it wouldn't be as bad for everyone. I'm just trying to get an understanding.

>>131683776
more like why wouldn't we (speaking as FED/medicare not a privately insured patient)?

>The Fed is ostensibly us
>Medicare is ostensible us
>Hospitals, or the vendors they rely on, would not operate at a profit without the backbone of medicare patients and their guaranteed payments.

>Don't allow medicare to negotiate pricing
>Don't mandate posted/published pricing so that there is a market
>Don't mandate value based pricing and allow dr. to bill per procedure creating a COI.

realize once the largest insurer of patients in the entire county (the feds) switches every private insurer will switch as well because it is cheaper for them (aka can make profit). Insurers are businesses, they are not making more money because DRs can charge so much.

>>131679080
>The infamous pharmaceutical monopoly and the lobbying of the insurance companies that piggy-back on the fruits of such a stratagem.
This
and
>honest pricing for routine procedures aren't posted somewhere consumers can review and compare.
>no free market forces

File: 1498533622360.png (105KB, 300x344px) Image search: [Google]

105KB, 300x344px

>>131678587
Does this stupid fuck not know how to cook chicken?!

Because michelle obama said maybe americans should eat healthy and right wing retards lost their shit

>>131683928
Holy shit you're stupid.

What do you think lower wages leads to?

>>131683928
most people that become doctors are smart and get education free from scholarships

I don't want just anyone going to be a doctor

>>131679316
this please

>>131685961
Lol

>>131682061
Lol this is from his Valentine's Day video right? With the fish that looked like a bloody tampon

Actual non-classcucked answer:

Demand for healthcare is inelastic. When you leave it to market forces, people will profit from it in a way you can't from common commodities.

Libertarians are illiterate faggots.

>>131686561
>75% income tax won't help us out any.
If we get real universal material benefits, instead of a bunch of church sermons and pep talks and new rules and selling-out to foreign (((investors))), a high top marginal tax rate will help Americans out rather a lot. Hell, even taking away the muh capital gains discount would do a lot for the public fisc.

>>131686934
>What do you think lower wages leads to?
Lots of things. Why don't you tell us about the monster under your bed that has you so het up?

>>131681261
exploit European markets

Their governments "fix" prices while the American market does not. Drug companies are fine with this because they still make reasonable dosh, but if the American market were to fix prices as well you'd have a lot of hell to pay everywhere else

>>131678587
Fat people.

>>131681261
Collective Bargaining between Consumers and Healthcare Providers. The prices of Healthcare rise because they can raise them without leverage against them.

>>131687265
I like the idea of taxing at a rate of 100% any income earned over one million per year.

One million per year is more than enough for any good Christian living a virtuous life.

>Only 1 Ja/ck/ webm
This thread is full of people who don't belong here.

>>131686968
No one gets scholarships for med school.

The medical schools charge ridiculously high tution and fees under the idea that you should "think of your degree as a mortgage".

You enter med school knowing you will be half a million in debt, but in 10 years you will be making 500k or more each year.

>>131687537
>but if the American market were to fix prices as well you'd have a lot of hell to pay everywhere else
Nah. They'd still make reasonable dosh here and they'd just have to learn to live with behaving like a public utility and not a movie studio.

>>131687700
Your didges are a good omen, brother.

>>131681261
Well our government tell the pharmaceutical companies to fuck off and come back when they have a better price for certain drugs.

Sidenote: Remicade is not really used here anymore because biosimilars entered the market. Saves us a ton of money.

>>131678587
heh, jack.

That guys channel is pretty comfy, big fat american guy doing cooking and food utensil reviews

>>131687265
Well if it actually worked and people could be seen in a timely manner and not months, it wouldn't be bad.

>>131678587
Obese niggers in the south. This is the real answer

>>131678587
Because actual health care costs money. "Just go put a band-aid on it" isn't really healthcare. If you start offering doctors a maximum annual salary of $80,000 or anything generally under $200,000 then they're gonna go somewhere else

File: 1484416986765.jpg (45KB, 570x487px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 570x487px

>>131683928
This bait is perfect. Its subtle and not obvious and it has several layers of bait that triggers you on several levels. Bernie Sanders meme, socialism meme, ''free'' anything meme.

A great baitcake all in all.

>>131678587
government intervention
>>131678893
faggot - people pretty much value health and have same survival instincts all over - I'd guess - but health costs are fucking different (in real terms)
a) you price to he market
- if market is people - you price to that
- if market is faggots in gov, you price to that
b) FDA is now just a barrier of entry - the taxi medallions of the health industry
c) corruption, fucking corruption
d) gov intervention
e) CORRUPTION FUCKING CORRUPTION
f) GOV INTERVENTION
g) fat cunts
88) stupid cunts
101) jews
666) niggers
NOW FUCK OFF
YOU FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT

>>131689546
But is there a way to drive down costs so people can afford the care they need to survive their illness, such an autoimmune where environment or food choices didn't cause it?

Because the free market doesn't work in healthcare except for a few things like lasik.

You can't shop around when you get in a car accident, are unconscious, and they take you to the nearest hospital.

>>131689979
But you could shop around for a plan before it happens.

>>131683129
It's as if Merck, Norvartis and Pfizer made this.

File: 84857713.jpg (42KB, 604x327px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 604x327px

>>131678587
Competition has been killed in the US.

Also alert for people who are turning 26 like me and dumb as hell.

>Start looking for healthcare options
>Poor grad student
>"I would guess Obamacare would be the cheapest"
>Go on site.
>Please put in your info
>It's a government website it should be ok right?

Literally no fucking joke within 60 seconds I get my first call. The rest of the day I get 12 more calls from other healthcare providers trying to sell to me. The next day I literally get 26 then the day after 30.

I ask one telemarketer what I can do to stop the calls. He has a heart and explains I should lie and say I have some. I say to him this is an awful thing the government does and what these people are doing to me, he tells me he agrees and he feels bad for what he does at his job but he says he gets paid a metric shit ton to do pretty much nothing but call and bother people as they hang up.

I am telling them I have insurance now even though I don't the numbers lower but I am still getting 1-2 calls a day and it has been 2 weeks.

You would think the FUCKING AMERICAN GOVERNMENT wouldn't sell your damn info for leads. I still don't have insurance and my deadline is coming up but I fear for calling anyone now or even going online.

Thanks Obama

Anyone got advice, is there a group where I can get cheap insurance to get my meds and meet with a fucking human being instead?

>>131678587

BECAUSE THE PEOPLE GETTING THE SERVICE ARE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE THAT PAY THE BILLS

>>131690132
They will take you to the nearest hospital to save your life whether or not they are "in network"

>>131690515
Oh and all of this was just because I wanted TO LOOK AT THE PRICES of Obamacare. they make you sign up just to LOOK.

>>131678587
Healthcare employees generally have a high price-tag, due to education costs and supply.

Government regulation causes economic stagnation and generally makes everything more expensive.

The leverage that medical institutions have over insurance companies increases the price. A plastic spoon, costing half a cent to make and bundled with 100's of others for 5 dollars, can be listed as 1 dollar and insurance companies will pay for it.

>>131678587
So they can rape you for everything at end of life and sell it all to a 20 something debt slave . Rinse repeat

>>131690366
You'd almost be right. It was actually the pharma lobby, Wellpoint, and the conservative think-tank Heritage Foundation.

>>131690132
>shop around for a plan
How does that help when the nearest ambulance drops me off at the nearest emergency room and whatever professionals are on hand do the work? It's like praying away cancer. Your faith-based market idolatry doesn't work. Just admit it.

>>131690727
>BECAUSE THE PEOPLE GETTING THE SERVICE ARE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE THAT PAY THE BILLS
You've clearly never made a health insurance claim.

>>131690750
I know, but I'm saying getting a plan before that happens. There are emergency plans out there, like car wrecks etc.

>>131678587
because of fat people....they ruin everything

>>131690861
I don't mean the moment it happens, I'm talking about in your home, on your computer buying a plan one day when you realize you probably should get something.

File: 1391484364121.png (83KB, 212x218px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 212x218px

>>131690515
> Not buying insurance through your school

Just don't get sick and don't have any accidents.

Thats what I do and I get along fine.

>>131684804
You do know there's also type 1 diabetes, which is not caused by one's lifestyle choices, yet still has to pay thousands of dollars just to stay alive?

>>131689546
>Because actual health care costs money. "Just go put a band-aid on it" isn't really healthcare. If you start offering doctors a maximum annual salary of $80,000 or anything generally under $200,000 then they're gonna go somewhere else
Who cares really? Doctors do fuck all but prescribe life extending medication to people that should be dead.

Surgeons that can fix a broken leg or some one being shot is cool though. But doctors? Fire 3/4 of them and use the money you save on hiring PT teachers giving scholarships to bullies that go after fat kids and you will improve the health of the nation a lot more then you would if you just doubled the pay for doctors.

OP
Because there is literally zero incentive to cure some one. This is the best argument of socialist healthcare, the state makes money from workers that are healthy enough to work and pay taxes.* But now the US has some shit system in the middle where private insurance companies sits in the middle and eats up all the money.

*ofc one could easily argue that they lose money from workers that don't work and therefore they have an incentive to kill some people. Which is true.

>>131678587
>be country that is fat and unhealthy
>be country that is at the front of new technology and medical discoveries
>able to keep someone alive for 20yrs after they've been dead
>peiole unable to let go and accept death

PAY

>>131690981
I was looking at that too, but like I said I am really poor and wanted LOOK at my options to find the lowest price. I don't ever get sick, I just have 3 meds I need paid for.

>>131690880
>plan
>>131690972
>thinks that any provider has to accept a plan
>thinks that unconscious people get to choose their providers
>thinks that plans have to pay anything they don't want to
You don't even understand the problem and your only answer is "buy smart". Your muh plans mean nothing in an emergency. Read the greentext and answer the points, or just shut the fucking fuck up and never open your little Young Partytard mouth on this topic again.

>>131691244
Okay now it makes more sense, should've put that out there earlier bud.

>>131690880
>shop around and pick a plan you like
> get in a bad car accident. You're really fucked up
> EMS somehow know your name and plan quickly enough for this to matter
> nearest hospital is 5 minutes away
> nearest hospital in your network is 25 minutes away

What do you want them to do?

>>131691636
I get that now, it makes more sense.

>>131691859
Anyway I was talking about true free market where the hospital will actually give you the price for something. Not plans

Like you need an X-ray for something and want to pay cash.

And think about a simple example- what will you do if you break your arm and need an X-ray? Go to one place and don't like their price, call another across town, and theirs is 15% cheaper. Are you going to go across town to get your xray with your arm broken?

>>131692341
>Are you going to go across town to get your xray with your arm broken?
I would, i have broken both arms and legs and besides the initial searing pain and the several months long healing period it wasn't that bad.

>>131678587
Government

>>131678587
>Why is healthcare so expensive /pol/?
Because you fucks refuse to live a healthy life. Eat more veggies, drink water, avoid processed meat and move your ass every now and then.

File: 1487546519669.gif (18KB, 911x623px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 911x623px

>All these poster's talking about drug costs
It doesn't get more bluepilled than that. Nice job slurping up talking points that politicians shit out.

Healthcare is so expensive because we have 30 million Niggers to take care of.

Obama took Whites health care and gave it to to Sheboons and Pick-a-ninnies. Never forget the Republicans in Congress went along with the thievery!

>>131693926
They may be 10% of the total sectoral expenditure but they are a much larger percentage of the patient's variable and therefore much more visible cost.
I agree that chart shows a lot of fuckery but for a person to be most concerned with the costs that one directly pays on a regular basis is perfectly rational and experience-based, not necessarily corporate-political talking points.

>>131690861
You've clearly got your head lodged up your ass. In your scenario, THE HEALTH CARE INSURANCE COMPANY PAYS THE BILLS, NOT YOU

YOU STUPID MOTHERFUCKER

>>131691244
Holy fuck you know NOTHING about health insurance.

Were you Obama's Healthcare Czar???

>>131694836
>THE HEALTH CARE INSURANCE COMPANY PAYS THE BILLS, NOT YOU
In theory, yes.
>hasn't heard of copays
>hasn't heard of deductibles
>hasn't heard of refused claims
In practice, no.
>>131694958
>Holy fuck you know NOTHING about health insurance.
I work with health insurers, faggot. What do YOU know?

>>131689546
>Because actual health care costs money
Indeed

Sure, but in the US it costs nearly double of what it costs everywhere else in the west.

File: 704756.jpg (77KB, 600x368px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 600x368px

>>131682061
fucking Jack what a retard

>>131681922
agreed. except auto insurance is forced upon us. you shouldnt have to buy health insurance

and you would have to make it so preexisting illness/disease doesn't disqualify you or else lots of sick people without insurance would die

>>131681261
>life-saving drugs or treatments like Chemotherapy or Remicade

Drugs are 10% of health expenditures:
>https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/health-expenditures.htm

Why is everybody focusing on drugs only?

File: 1484829027577.jpg (128KB, 900x900px) Image search: [Google]

128KB, 900x900px

Hey guys, what's going in this thread?

>>131678587
The answer is the bureaucracy. It's really not that expensive for a doctor to see a patient diagnose them and treat them. The costs skyrocket because the doctor has to do so much bullshit to avoid being sued if something goes wrong. Now you've got to pay for the doctor filing paperwork on everything and running you through various testing protocols that are only to cover their ass if the diagnosis turns out to be wrong.

So instead of paying $100 for an hour visit then $20 a month for drug treatment you pay:
> $100 for the visit
> $50 for someone to fill out forms and submit them to insurance
> $500 in unnecessary lab tests
> $100 for the doctor to read the lab tests
> $50 for someone to fill out forms on the lab tests and submit them to insurance
> $50 for the pharmacist to fill out forms saying that you brought the forms from the doctors office
> $20 per month for the drug treatment.
And that's how something that should cost $100 ends up costing you $750

>>131696309
You forgot:
$50 for the doctor and biller to argue/haggle with the insurance company over payment
$30 money cost of time to wait for the insurers to get off their dead asses and cut the check already
$50 for malpractice insurance to cover doctor's assets in case of litigation

>>131678587
The insurance companies run a cartel.
You think orthopedic surgery actually cost half a million dollars? Fuck no it doesn't and that's 100% not what the insurance company is paying the hospital.

>be me, 34yo guy in good health
>have had one format of insurance or another while life.
>been to the doctor twice in last 10 years. Stitches for cut on hand and bad sinus infection
> cut happened at work so work comp paid. Because of deductible I paid for minute clinic visit and mess for sinus infection.
> company owner pays about $900 per month for my insurance.
> price has gone up considerably over the last few years because someone besides Fatty needs to pay for his quadruple bypass caused by bad life decisions. Also these elderly shouldn't have to pay for their medicine, it should be up to the young people that they fucked over to pay for them to hang around using up resources.

>>131678587
Because PhRma, the medical industrial complex, insurance companies and CONgress are a bunch of greedy, corrupt fucking crooks who don't give a tinker's damn about the damage they do or about "helping" people.
It's all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

>>131682061
why the fuck would someone make a video of dumping a tub of coolwhip into a premade pie crust, i hate this guy so much