Is there anything actually wrong with obamacare or do people

>>131661947

Why would you willingly destroy healthcare? People will die.

I used to pay 300 a month now its 730 a month. It has nothing to do with him.

>>131662167
>Obamacare
>Healthcare

Pick one.

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>>131661947
Republicans voted to repeal it 52 times. Why can't they do it a 53rd time?

>>131662204
Do you think poor people should die so you can save $430 a month?

>>131661947
Instead of calling you retarded, I will provide an answer.
ObamaCare was a massive SOCIALIST/Oligarchy/Fascist transfer of money from Americans taxpayers, to rich corporations of his (their) choice.
It killed competition, and free market...that's what the fuck leftism DOES...whether it is Natsoc or Feel the Bern!!

(MY PERSONAL PASTA W/OUT SAUCE)
n socialism, ALL SOCIALISM/FASCISM, you still have to trust the word of corrupt PEOPLE, about how much production/resources are available. You have no way of knowing.
At least in capitalism, you can vote with your dollars, and buy into shares of the produce/resources.
In addition, whether you pretend to place centralized control of resources, in the state (socialism), or the people (communism), the difference is sheer semantics....pretending to place control in a human construct designated the ability to actually be fair, and not corrupt.

In fact we have fascism/socialism now...that is what the bailouts were. Those are the Peoples' Banks. Obamacare is the Peoples' insurance. Why ask for something you already have?

I think most people asking for socialism or Communism have no idea, and have never really considered wtf that would look like. For more info, see: "Obama Administration"

>>131662567
>implying more effective healthcare for the already poor under ACA

>>131661947
It's a corporate fascist scheme that addresses the inflated cost of healthcare by forcing everyone buy insurance at the threat of fines and imprisonment. It is naturally adjusted, as all parasitic schemes are, to unfairly burden healthy young men in favor of those who pay little to nothing. It does nothing to lower healthcare costs, it has raised the cost of insurance, which is makes mandatory, which enforces high healthcare costs.

The "best" thing it does it the pre-existing condition crap, but even that's nonsense, because that's not what insurance is for. All it does, again, is increase costs for those whole carry the burden. Those with pre-existing conditions do not need insurance, they need affordable healthcare, and failing their ability to afford it, they need charity.

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>>131662345
Because this vote actually counts, they are only good for contrarian pretend legislating.

Now they are stuck between fellating the industries that send them campaign bux and ruthlessly fucking the poor whites that drop votes for them.

The answer of course is to gib to both, and drive the deficit up another 10 trillion. Them deficits only matter when the liberals are in charge.

>>131661947
Its giving a bandaid to someone who stepped on a landmine.

It fixes nothing, and can (and has) been manipulated to make certain companies gouge the population even more.

trumpcare isnt the answer either, only single payer will fix things

>>131663155
Which is where Obama started, before we "compromised" with the GOP and got a version of Clinton's healthcare proposal back when she was first lady.

>>131662345
keke, they literally didn't even have a plan for what would replace it, 52 times

It was a shitty half measure. Tbh we should just say fuck the insurance companies and go Single Payer. Private health care is ridiculous and I work at an insurance company. It's seriously all middle aged women sitting around being passive aggressive toward one another and barely competent at their jobs but still pulling down $50k+/yr. If you ever wonder why insurance is so expensive, that's it. Administrative and regulatory costs partly from the ACA but mostly because the industry is a barely working mess.

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>>131662345
literally shitposting 52 times

>>131663155
>trumpcare isnt the answer either, only single payer will fix things
Just as (((they))) planned.

It's basically the cloward-piven scheme applied to healthcare, one of the central pillars of control in marxist schemes to dominate the USA.

>>131661947
why do you want to use guns to force people to pay for other peoples health care?

>>131662944
>Because this vote actually counts

They voted 52 times just to appeal to rural and suburban right wing retards who didn't know any better?

>>131661947
I think you're onto something OP. Trump doesn't have a sound reason for wanting to undo Obamacare -- his motivation (here at least) is revenge. Trump's own views on healthcare are clearly rather big-gov't and not libertarian.

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>>131663525
bingo

>>131663371
pretty pathetic desu

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>>131663427
You forget that the insurance companies are publicly traded for-profit organizations with all-important investors and CEO's making 8 figures.

What I call "The Reagan Model for America".

>>131661947
>Mandated to but healthcare
>Get fined if you don't have it
>Premiums going up
>Insurers pulling out

The whole thing is a fucking mess. They should just go back to free market style instead of government intervening and driving up the prices

>>131663338
>>131663427
What brand of insanity does it take to want the US government to manage your healthcare?

How does this address the core issue of rampant costs, driven by previous government meddling?

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>>131663646

>>131661947
Made shit more expensive for me so I don't like it.

Obamacare was just something that fucked the middle class more than anything else.

>>131661947
Obamacare is a failing system needing fed dollars to prop up failing insurance schemes. A monkey pushed it through with harpies and goblins, making it ineffective.

A centrist justice allowed it all to happen. That fuck needs to be excommunicated.

>>131661947
who?

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>>131663646
it's trickle down health care

>>131662567
Are you saying I should be forced to have healthcare because poor people didnt?

>>131662322

Exactly, insurance coverage is not care

>get healthcare from employer, it's great
>obongocare: no don't do that

>>131663427
We need price controls before anything else.

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>>131663868
i think he's saying your too dumb for your own good and have no idea about the thing you're complaining about and you're so simple minded that you'll believe the GOP has a 'plan' that will fix all your problems

>>131663596
You're lost in the sauce. Obamacare is a loss from the get go. Look at how he STOLE money from Fannie May and Freddie Mac just to finance the scheme. ITS A FUCKING JOKE.

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>>131663740
The Government already manages a large percent of the population's healthcare (including all of these Legislator's).

You can't Free Market something in which the consumer has no choice but to purchase or die.
You don't get to say "That liver transplant/cancer drug is too expensive, I'll just have to pass". Big Insurance and Big Healthcare have exploited this (and bribed politicians) to set shit up this way.

You want to make "teh Gubbermint" the bogeyman, when it's the free flow of money into the goverment from private corporations that put us in this mess (among many other messes).

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>>131661947
health care should be a state issue

>>131663371
There is no proper healthcare plan. Our healthcare plans just squirm and worm decade after decade excuses after excuses. We need to bite the bullet on many issues for healthcare to work like debt and taxes but nobody has the balls.

>>131664173
It was working fine before Obama decided to try and consolidate the free market in to a socialist system.

>>131664107
What problems did Obamacare fix, anyway? Insurers not covering pre-existing conditions like insurance isnt supposed to do, then forcing the public to cover the losses, with the government as your muscle?

>>131664239
I, for one, continue to welcome my star of david overlords.

>>131661947
Costs went up significantly instead of down.

Also, the number of people who ended up insured by 2015 was lower than the number the obama administration projected would have insurance by 2015 IF THERE WAS NO OBAMACARE.

>>131663472
>socialism is marxism :^)

Healthcare, along with national defense and infrastructure, are things well suited for government control.

The fact that large government control is inefficient doesn't mean that there are not still things that are better handled by it.

>>131663740
>US government
stop right there. Government can handle this, as demonstrated elsewhere. If there is a particular issue with a particular government handling it then THAT is the issue, not the premise of single payer.

The cost of healthcare in america is a feedback loop. Because most people get insurance through their employer, we already have a system where the healthy are paying for the sicks healthcare, thats the way insurance works, but because everyone has it health care industry can charge very high prices, up to whatever insurance is willing to pay while still making a profit off of all the healthy people who have insurance.

The problem is that everyone should have insurance. Its not a problem that 'the healthy have to have insurance'. Everyone should have fucking healthcare, its that simple, its like electricity. What happens when we dont? People die in the street, whos going to clean that up? You? Are you going to shovel a bunch of dead hobos out of the gutter?

And when plagues spread because of inadequate care and you get infected and die, im sure you will be happy you didnt have to have insurance.

Healthcare is integral to the entirety of the population. That everyone around you is healthy is in your own interest, that everyone in the nation is healthy is in the nations interest.

So we have a situation where everyone being covered, drives costs up. The 'free market' approach to lower prices would require some people not having health care, which is a bad idea, so the only solution to have both everyone covered and prices under control is the collective bargaining weight only accomplished through large scale single payer pressure on the industry.

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>>131664351
>with the government as your muscle
wew there lad, I think you forget what 'the government' is meant to represent

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>>131664328
>It was working fine before Obama
Costs were steadily rising at multiple times the rate of inflation. And people who were born with/developed serious medical conditions were routinely denied any sort of coverage.

>>131664328
>It was working fine before Obama decided to try and consolidate the free market in to a socialist system.
No it wasnt, you just didnt know about because you likely had insurance through your employer or were uninsured and healthy.

Medical costs were stupidly high before obamacare and only going up. The pressure to do something about it is likely one of the things that caused obamacare to go through.

This has been a growing problem since at least the mid 90s.

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>>131664003
We need to place the Fed back in control of Congress, with the People keeping the Fed in check at gunpoint...like wtf the Constitution says.
That's wtf we need to do first.
I imagine everything will begin to fix itself if we did that.
You know how the government does drills for martial law? Just in case the citizens get outta hand in the wrong way? Not because they will really ever do it of course; it's just in case?
Well, why in the fuck don't we start a petition to allow the PEOPLE to hold drills about us using our 1st amendment rights to overthrow a tyrannical government? You know....not that we would ever actually do it...JUST IN CASE.... (KEK).
If we do not have this, then we are NOT FREE, and NEVER WERE.

>>131664173
>You can't Free Market something in which the consumer has no choice but to purchase or die.
The hell you can't.The costs of healthcare are not representative of a free market. The government literally prohibits several free market alternatives such as fraternal orgs. The presence and utter reliance on insurance has driven costs to insane heights, for the most basic of items and services. Nothing can change without abolishing the corporate fascist Obamacare, and single-payer was the intended goal of this all along, I will never trust it.

>>131664446
Obamas projections looked like this:
Number insured now: 90m
Number insured in 2015 without ACA: 105m
Number insured in 2015 with ACA: 125m


Reality with ACA was higher than 90, but lower than the 105

These are not the specific numbers, but their order is correct. I'm driving so I can't look up the specifics.

>>131664446
>Also, the number of people who ended up insured by 2015 was lower than the number the obama administration projected would have insurance by 2015 IF THERE WAS NO OBAMACARE.
Sure, let's make things up. Good argument.

>>131662567
yes

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>>131664682
>Wants Free Market to avoid Corporate Fascism
>Single-Payer is ebil because of my Gut Feels.

>>131664530
Please tell me how your vague notions and worthless opinions of what the government is "meant" to represent constitutes reality.

>>131664658
So naturally the solution was to exacerbate the causes of rising costs (inflating charges to be covered by insurance, covering costs of those with no insurance) as well as adding in the costs of what equates to making auto insurers insure a fucking lemon, for life.

>>131664351
So you think sick people should die? Btw your grand old party of faggots senate bill forces insurance companies to cover pre existing conditions. But you will still support it anyway because the republicans want you to and you're too stupid to think for yourself.

>>131664817
Go look at their projections prior to passing the bill.

>>131664832
Hahahahahahah!! Best answer ever.
And I have had family die from not having good healthcare. It's not your fault...exactly.
If we sent less to Israel, maybe we could afford to pay these peoples' healthcare, and our veterans too.

>>131664978
>they're willing to roll out unconstitutional corporate fascist schemes to achieve their goals
>but dont worry about it lol

Centrally-planned anything is utter shit. The government can't handle voter protection, they can't handle healthcare.

>>131661947
>make less than $30k a year
>Obamacare is great just let me pay my $6k deductable!

fuck that dumb nigger, wish someone would shoot him and every democrat that voted for him

>>131661947
>Is there anything actually wrong with obamacare

Well, before it my monthly payment for healthcare was $320, and it has never raised by more than 1-3% per year.
My co-pays were $10.
Prescriptions were $10.

Now it's $580 a month.
Copay is $25.
Prescriptions are $30.

This happened over the course of 2 years.

>>131664351
>Insurers not covering pre-existing conditions like insurance isnt supposed to do

The issue is that insurance is not really insurance, insurance is simply 'medical care'.

It is by design, by the insurance companies own design, because they keep insisting that prices stay artificially high to encourage people to feel the need to have insurance.

Your insurance doesnt pay that whole medical bill, they negotiate it down. The inunsured end up paying twice or more what their insurance would have, and most providers can not cut a deal with the uninsured because part of the deal they have to get what they do manage to get from the insurance company stipulates people paying out of pocket have to pay full price.

And yes, part of why we got here was government collusion with the health and insurance industries, the health lobby is huge, much bigger than oil.

But what happened to drain the swamp? Half measures like obamacare, or trump care, those are things that will not fix the system, they will just continue milking it. Single payer can fix it.

>>131664446
>Costs went up
Mainly because the insurance companies, the insiders, basically EVERYBODY saw the writing on the wall before the damn thing was even signed into law. They are just milking it, trying to gouge the system for as much as they can before it inevitably gets changed.

The same way medical prices have slowly gone up as more and more boomers retire, because they get on medicare, which can not negotiate (by law, because that would be unfair for the insurance companies ;^) - an example of the collusion im talking about) those health care providers know they have guarenteed government payment for all these retired people, so they can increase prices.

>>131665004
No one died due to lack of healthcare, they went into debt. What you value your life at is no business of mine, mortgage it away.

The "PEOPLE WILL DIE" narrative is weak. You're weak. I hope you're denied coverage for a pre-existing condition.

>>131664239
>Taxes for super highways
>Taxes for military funding
>Taxes for NASA
>Taxes for literally everything
>Single payer healthcare is socialist
>MUH Libertarianism *wink wink*

Real answer is the governments fellatio to private corporations and shafting of citizens is the real law of the land.

>>131661947
The entire American healthcare system has been fucked to hell and back by lefties for 60 years.

The government keeps putting regulations to push more and more money into the insurance system and requiring insurers to pay out more and more money. What happens? Pharma companies just raise the costs of medicine.

>>131664107
>forced to have healthcare
>forced to pay more for it
>hospitals are packed with spics
>fixed nothing
>socialized healthcare is shit and takes forever to get shit fixed
>adds to the debt

All I asked is why do I need to be forced to have healthcare because others didn't you fag flag cock sucking city nigger

>>131665288
is it not weird to you that even earning 100k a year you're still getting ripped off for health insurance and treatment?

burgerland. where everyone knows they're being conned but still says how free they are!

>>131665153
We could cut a lot of programs to pay for health care.

But we shouldn't.
Being Healthy is not a right.
It's a privilege paid for by hard work and good choices.

>>131665449
>he doesnt understand the duties of our government
>he doesnt know from which the privilege of levying taxes is based
>he most certainly doesnt know the difference between positive and negative liberties, and which of them our system is built around

I feel bad for the people around you

Can anyone here definitively say that if there was no Obamacare, their premiums wouldn't have gone up anyways?

>>131665396
People wont die because anyone can go to a hospital and they cant turn them away.

This is not an insurance issue, it is a health care cost issue. You are paying for those sick people using that hospital one way or another, like it or not. The difference is that with a proper single payer system you would be paying less for them, and less for yourself.

>>131661947
Yeah what's wrong is it doesn't go far enough

We need to end this charade and go single payer

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>>131662567
>without health insurance you just die instantly
Humans survived for 100,000 years without Medicaid you dumb faggot. And Medicaid doesnt stop these poor people from eating themselves to death.

>>131661947
A little from column A, a little from column B. There are real problems with the legislation, but a lot of the people complaining about it just hate it because Barry pushed it.

>>131665742
>The difference is that with a proper single payer system you would be paying less for them, and less for yourself.
And we would pay even less under a proper free-market system, and have better access to a better quality of care.

>>131663427
Fuck off, 1/3 of my paycheck is already removed by the government.

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>>131665737
Can anyone prove this graph wrong?

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>>131664996
>So naturally the solution was to exacerbate the causes of rising costs (inflating charges to be covered by insurance, covering costs of those with no insurance) as well as adding in the costs of what equates to making auto insurers insure a fucking lemon, for life.

This is just meaningless word-stew. You act like the Insurance companies just pay for medical costs out of their own money, rather than managing a pool of money paid into them. The people newly covered by Obamacare weren't in there for free, it was covered by their own money or from taxpayer gibs-money.

The insurance companies had a natural reason to make this fail; shit like the 80% clause (where they had to spend 80% of the pool paying claims) were cancerous to their enormous profitability.

The goal of Big Insurance isn't to insure people, it's first and foremost to generate enormous wealth for the shareholders/administrators. Obamacare proposed to change their priorities back to covering the people who paid in and got sick.

On the Big Healthcare side, they just took advantage of this windfall to gin up prices (as usual) because any sort of real healthcare reform has to control prices. As long as we are paying Quadruple what the rest of the Free World is for drugs and treatment, this situation will never be fixed.

>>131661947
>a nigger made it
No, the Heritage Foundation made it.
>wtf I love the ACA now

>>131661947
Yes there is something wrong with it. I am a free man. You cannot tell a free man that he has to pay an insurance company money simply because he exists. You are playing with war doing that. Do you have any clue how many people haven't paid in, aren't going to pay in, and stopped paying taxes altogether because of that blatant violation of the fundamental of liberty? People have withdrawn their consent to be governed over this individual mandate alone. They bought guns instead of paying for your other people's healthcare, and if you push harder, you have a war on your hands.
Fuck your healthcare and your very small brain that doesn't understand what a right is and can't understand the fundamentals of liberty.
I'm not your slave or the government's slave. I AM A FREE MAN. So go fuck yourself. You absolutely have to allow people to opt out and not participate if they don't want to, or you lose the thing that binds us all.

>>131665795
We survived 100,000 years without lots of things. Do you want to get rid of ambulances, penicillin, and your black dildo too? What a stupid argument.

>>131665693
>positive and negative liberties
That is compelte bullshit made up by retards to justify their own selfishness.

Article 1 section 8 clearly says provide for the general wellfare of the united states, says so right in my pocket constitution.

>>131664173
>You can't Free Market something in which the consumer has no choice but to purchase or die.

IT'S CALLED FOOD YOU KIKE

>>131665693
Last i checked the government was here to serve the people. 20 trillion in debt from jew wars which have no benefit for the common man and no healthcare as a result. SHOCKING.

>>131665329
The insurance companies are milking Obamacare? They started losing 100s of millions of dollars per year from day 1.

Obama promised them he would subsidize their losses if they would participate. They participated, and then he refused to give them the money he promised them. He sabotaged his own plan.

The insurance portion of ACA was just a cover to hide the Medicaid expansion that Americans didn't want. They knew the exchanges would fall apart.

>>131665887
Why would anyone compete when they can collude? You marketfaggots keep forgetting that the rich don't stay rich by taking unnecessary risks. They keep it by sticking together, child.
Competition is for the shit class. That means you.

>>131665887
>And we would pay even less under a proper free-market system, and have better access to a better quality of care.

"capitalism works, its just never been done right before! weve never tried a free market!"

>>131666047
>and your black dildo

Did you just assume the color of his dildo collection, shitlord

>>131664003
>price controls
Do you want to go full Venezuela?

>>131665595
Thee are disabled people who deserve help. There should be a better vetting process, but I would never tell these people no.
Also, when our veterans die in the streets, while Israel has best healthcare in the wolrld while we pay for it...trust me, we can afford to even take care of the welfare state, w/out our country being used as a Communist piggy bank.

>>131666136
>They keep it by sticking together, child.
Yeah, and BUYING THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT WHO YOU THEN VOTE TO GIVE THEM MORE TOOLS BY WHICH TO EXPLOIT THE PUBLIC.

IF EVERYONE COLLABORATES TO KEEP PRICES HIGH THE FIRST MAN TO GO LOW DOMINATES THE INDUSTRY, THE ONLY REALISTIC BARRIERS TO ENTRY ARE CREATED BY THE GOVERNMENT.

>>131665795
Name one person who lived to be 100,000 years old. You can't.
If you mean the race survived for 100,000 years, sure. Possums have survived as a species for at least that long. You want to live like an animal?

This is typical Invincible Young Person Who Will Never Be Seriously Ill hogwash.

>>131666075
>>131666056
the huge debts are from entitlement programs and you want even more entitlement programs to solve the problems cause by entitlement programs

$5k deductible means that millions of people are paying hundreds of dollars each month for health insurance that won't kick in until that deductible amount is paid for by the customer. there are some benefits, such as reduced prescription medicine costs, and other perks that are nice, but most people won't actually see any monetary assistance from the insurance companies, since catastrophic accidents and illnesses aren't common occurrences.

it's a racket to funnel money to the insurance industry. it's a result of lobbyists using democrat corruptibility to rape the citizens.

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>>131661947
Obamacare is a lie. Its just a law forcing you to eithet buy expensive healthcare or sign up for a shitty one that does nothing. It also only works if you are unemployed.

Trump starts with opening state borders and allowing you to buy medicine from overseas. This hurts pharmacy companies because it forces them to lower their prices. Its high because they monopolize it with patents and then extend those patents through playing littlw liberal fuck fuck games. They raise it so high that insurance is REQUIRED to pay for it.

When obamacare came out they dropped my friend who had diabetes. You can keep your doctor but the doctor dont have to keep you. He had to pay 700 a month for insulin after that and 3 months later went into a diabetic coma.

Obamacare also currently takes 6 months just to talk to a doctor about mental health but first you have to get assigned to a doctor who actually exists.

>signs up
>given doctor and hospital
>call hospital
> "sorry we never heard of that doctor here"
>calls some number to fix
>gets the run around for 30 minutes
>gets told to call several other hospitals to find one who is "accepting new patients"
>no one is accepting new patients

Just like how they have phantom democrat voters they have phantom doctors too i guess.

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>>131666073
>IT'S CALLED FOOD YOU KIKE

You can buy seeds and grow your own food, fish or shoot some game, you insulated retard. I'd like to see you perform your own open heart surgery.

>>131665595
>inflate health care costs through your actions
>blame people who cant pay the inflated cost for being unable to pay it

>>131662567
Yes. My understanding is that there is no perfect system where everyone has optimal healthcare and maximum satisfaction. Different demographics of people will suffer with different healthcare systems. If we all stop trying to morally equilize everything and proclaim we are all fighting for our own best interests, we can speed the whole process up. Whatever the means, whatever the outcome.

We should make single payer for all types of insurance, home, car, property taxes. Actually, let's just make single payer for all expenditures people need, like food, shelter, clothes. Universal income for all.

>>131666136
We do have anti-trust laws

There are fat settlements and plenty of (((lawyers))) whose job it is to go after industry collusion

You think Golberg, Goldstein & Associates would give up a cool hundred million out of their sense of camaraderie with other greedy rich capitalists?

>>131664666
And costs are much higher with massive sections if the Midwest having lost nearly every single provider

>>131666260
yanks will literally choose being overcharged because they've been brainwashed to think everything is going to lead to a communist downfall of their glorious land of the fee.

>good goys, keep paying us your monies

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>>131666557
>Trump starts with hurting Big Pharmaceuticals

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!-gasp-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Yeah, you keep on waiting on that one.

>>131666474
I want the complete destruction of all current welfare programs and the proper implementation of streamlined non marxist socialist policies.

You are defending one money sink with another. The health care industry AND the government collusion need fixing.

>>131666260
The difference: financing is something that a sovereign currency issuer is well-suited for. Organizing trade in the face of embargos, perhaps less so.
Insurers are literally leeches, dead weight whose sole objective is not giving back the money you paid them. You must work for an insurer, or want to. You also are nothing more than surplus biomass.

>>131666474
>muh denbts
Are a fucking meme, you moron. Every dollar in your pocket is a debt.

>>131666527
The insurance companies are. It making money from Obamacare. They have consistently lost money every year.

>>131666578
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-37361456
kek

>>131666474
This
We spend twice as much on Entitlements than we do on Military.

>>131666603
Good idea. If you want fucking shiny baubles you make them your damned self or work something out with someone who does on your own time and your own resources.

Just have universal healthcare and be done with it.Id gladly pay extra in taxes just so I dont have to hear people whine and bitch about it one way or another.

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>>131666642
>We do have anti-trust laws

Yes, they exist to make sure there's a minimum of 3 entities controlling anything. Three.

That sure fixes everything!

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>>131661947
Also obama didnt make it. It was a republican system that didnt get sent up because they realized it wasnt good and need more time to put it together. Obama was near his last term and accomplished nothing so he literally took what was in it so far and ran with it against republican warnings. Hes literally a nigger who didnt do anything but play golf and then stole a classmates homework, wrote his own name on it, and turned it in to the teacher. So then all the mistakes on the homework appeared so now hes blaming it on the mate that he stole it from. Hes a literal nigger.

1 post by i.d. (usin a proxy)

Sage
A
G
E

Only a fucking retarded doesnt know obamacare fucks over working people, while funding the niggers 100%, but if you make $40k be prepared to get fucked..

>>131666599
>there is no perfect system where everyone has optimal healthcare

Nothings ever perfect, we could improve everyone's healthcare and lower the cost though, which is a good start.

This would of course involve removing collusion in other industries and doing simple things like putting iodine back in the bread.

>>131666686
>>131666820
You retards, price controls have never worked. You know that these companies will cry and scream and say they can no longer afford to cover those drugs and Pharma companies will claim they won't be able to keep making them at that price.

>>131666782
when has a large government program, one that creates a department with bureaucrats, ever stopped stopped corruption, reduced government involvement, reduced bureaucracy and saved money?

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>>131667022
^
Oh and pic related
>lazy niggers trying to not do their jobs.

>>131666891
>your suggestion to cut health care cost in half is bad because it will cost more money!

>>131667066
Maybe OP is just a fucking idiot who needed it explaining to him by /pol/acks, then had to go back to work?

cars used to be expensive
henry ford makes cheap car
everyone has cars

healthcare used to be expensive...
amazon does ______
everyone has good healthcare.

the government needs to get outta the fucking way. all taxes and regulations need to be gone.

>>131666474
Taxing your citizens for entitlement programs that benefit them is the whole reason why we are here. Taxing your citizens for entitlement programs that reward others is downright slavery. Fuck corporate america we dont need it. Fuck these wars we dont need it. Get the picture?

>>131667066
Uhm, you know they're not actually funding the niggers, who turn right around and give that money to (((insurers))), right? Or do you suck cock for dead-weight middlemen?

>>131667147
>You know that these companies will cry and scream and say they can no longer afford to cover those drugs
There's no reason for them to even be a party to this transaction, fool. Medicare-for-all has 1/10 the dead weight loss of private insurance.
>Pharma companies will claim they won't be able to keep making them at that price.
Like Shkreli? Kek. Tough titty. They can either stop whining and find a way, or they can shut up shop and go fuck themselves. If not, the US is by no means the only country that manufactures medications. Half your meds are imported anyway.
It's not hard to determine just how much it costs to manufacture medications. It's basic fucking chemistry, you cuck. Since most of the basic research is done on the public dime anyway, it's not like pharma is entitled to windfall profits.

>>131667162
>saved money
every single payer program in the world is paying less per capita than we are, and the US does not have the highest life expectancy.

Because large programs will have degrees of inefficiency inherent in them does not mean you can not make a less-inefficient large program than ones that already exist.

In the case of health care it has been shown that the overall savings are superior to what you lose by having it ran by a large program.

You can see this by looking at the average health care cost per capita. This roles everything together in an easy to see number, the US pays 40% or more than any other country. Therefore by adopting single payer we will at least be saving that much.

>>131665305
580 a month? How does anyone afford that in this econony?

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>>131667443
>The automotive industry isn't regulated!

You should be 18 to post here.

>>131667673
If he has any kind of health problem hes likely still saving in the long run.

>>131666056
>Taking the communist interpretation of a well defined phrase
Fuck off, Commy.
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed41.asp

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>>131661947
>a nigger made it so it must naturally be ineffective

This. Plus I like the idea of Americans dying from easily treated health issues.

>>131665595
Although i am a right wing i firmly believe the government exists soley to protect our nation from foriegn terrorism and reduce famine. That is the governments JOB. If they dont do their job then they are redundant.

>>131662567

Yes, because they didn't give a damn about me when my life was going to shit (aka rising healthcare premiums for $6000+ deductible)

>>131666820
This guy gets it.

>>131666260
As opposed to paying $80 for an aspirin.

>>131664666
No it worked fine b4. I dunno where you get off assuming that functioning members of society should have to continue to carry the majority of the weak and lazy.
Your like that guy at the office that shows up 20 minutes late to meetings, always has an excuse and someone else has to pick up the slack, while we all get the same quarterly bonus and raises. People like you should be fucking gassed. My premiums under my employer tripled under Obama. But some fat lazy nigger with an ebt card chip subsidized housing and a tax credit for 5 fucking kids needs me to pay for their insurance. No not at all, and that person should die off.
I'd also like to see the money we send to useless fucking countries stop too. If Africa, can't feed itself and Israel can't spend their own money, then they can't exist.
Us white working men are tired of having faggots and feminists tell us that we are the problem with the world while holding out there coffers and demanding we give them what we earned in exchange for ridicule.

FUCK OFF WE'RE FULL.

>>131667599
you are assuming that our country will do the same as other countries with a single payer. Other countries cap lawsuits; we do not. You could save a shit ton of money in health care with simple torte reform WITHOUT going to single payer. We could do this RIGHT NOW, yet we do not. We could cap med prices right now, yet we do not. Going to single payer won't stop corruption and will create even more layers of bureaucracy than we currently have. More layers = easier to corrupt

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>>131667904
The problem for the Right Wing in this is that without Federal Gibs to the Red States (who with the exception of Texas and Alaska are hugely dependent on Gibsl), they'd completely lose power to the Left Wing who's populace actually produce more tax revenue than they get Federally.

>>131663525
Well duh.

>>131661947
>government now has the authority to force citizens to purchase a private product
>this isn't a problem
My country doesn't even teach its core principles of government in school.

>>131666010
Can confirm there are many that dropped out of the tax system altogether because of being told they're forced to have insurance.

>>131661947
>Is there anything actually wrong with obamacare

Yes. Trumpcare is actually worse. The best way to fix spiraling insurance premiums wasn't to hand mandates to the insurance companies.

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>>131668279
OOPS that price of Oil I suppose.

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>>131666752>hurhurhurhur..
Suck our dick antifag go watch some CNN.
https://youtu.be/2BfJnueC57U

The only thing your faggot ass can do is laugh at your own joke.

>>131664173
>You don't get to say "That liver transplant/cancer drug is too expensive, I'll just have to pass".

Well you could, but they rarely (never) tell you the total price beforehand.

>>131668182
>No it worked fine b4
It did not
>functioning members of society
undefined buzzword
>continue to carry
already were and will continue to for reasons i have already explained you fucking moron.
>y--your just like these other things im now going to rant about because i don't actually have anything but a very limited subjective anecdotal experience with the topic at hand!
k

>>131668252
>you are assuming that our country will do the same as other countries with a single payer.

If it works in every other country and not ours then the problem is that we decided to adopt single payer.

>We could cap med prices right now, yet we do not
That would actually be a bad idea.

Single payer creates competition, companies compete to get the government contract. An absolute cap, absolute government control of the system is not the answer either.

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>>131668689
>Get the real dirt from CNN
>Trump promises it, so it WILL HAPPEN!

Jesus Christ.

>>131668559
Whats worse about failing system thats already in place? https://youtu.be/2BfJnueC57U

Also his plan doesnt consider 11million illegal immigrants sneaking in to drain it. That alone makes it better than nigger monkey care.

>>131668182
>thinking the premiums he pays go to pay others' premiums
Kek
You help them along because, not only could they be of unexpected help at some point, for example Alan Turing, homosexual and computing pioneer, but if you don't, the weak and lazy will subvert you at every turn.
Even in D&D there are SIX axes of skill, and like a brainlet, you seem to think only STR matters.
Fuck off, you're nothing more than a vehicle for testosterone..

>>131668252
>Other countries cap lawsuits; we do not
American lawsuits are so large precisely because someone injured by malpractice is going to need to pay for their own care for the rest of their lives.
>simple torte reform WITHOUT going to single payer
Then there is no disincentive to malpractice. Did you even finish econ 101?
You're a corporate cocksucker and you need to be killed.

>>131668402
You own one ~330 millionth of every aircraft carrier, tank, and gun, the US military owns.

This is no different. A bacteria is just a microscopic foreign invader. MIlitary and health are two parts of the same overall protection of the population.

>>131667568
You'd have to dismantle Intellectual property rights in the process and you'll end up with a system that punishes investment in innovation and research. You'll halt all progress in the medical field and make the entire healthcare research system subject to the political whims of whoever is appointed to be director of NIH.

>Whoops, looks like we've been spending way too much on researching prostate cancer! How incredibly misogynistic! We should slash that budget and divert that money to creating better fake vaginas for trannies!

You are creating a world of pain by taking away the power of people to opt out of the system. Your Utopian fantasies will end in fucking DISASTER

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>>131668899
He's draining the Big Pharmaceutical Swamp?
Does he realize who pays for the re-election campaigns of the Legislative Branch?

Maybe we should get $30 billion dollar wall before tackling our trillions in healthcare problems.

>>131667185
Did this turd un-ironically say that? You Londoners need to drag this shit out of office on the street and set an example.

Don't care have private insurance.
They are making 15 hr pay for your own

>>131668855
He promised to drain the swamp and many other things. So far hes doing it. But sure give a nigger 8 years to play golf and then right towards the end let him take credit for applying a failed republican healthcare plan that wasnt finished yet. I guess he had to go out atleast looking like he did something other than attack the constitution.

>>131661947
It's a pretty shity form of socialism
It trys to be in the middle of libertarian and socialism instead of just one or the other
Not to mention it puts huge strain on the economy
Overall it was a huge Fuck up for letting it pass but not that we're stuck with it it's gonna be near impossible to get rid of it

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>>131669089
We already don't make cures for anything.
We produce Treatments that cost six figures and have a laundry list of side-effects that require additional "treatments".

Do you realize how much money Big Pharma would stand to lose if they CURED diabeetus?

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>>131669351
>He promised to drain the swamp and many other things. So far hes doing it.

I don't know what to say to this.

>>131668914
I'm stating my premiums tripled because of the need for covering 7 million uninsured. the fucking costs went up 3 times on the other half of the population just to cover 7 million people.
fuck those 7 million people.

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>>131668914
Not every faggot is a super genius who will revolutionize society.
Some people are just net drains on the system. The US has a plethora of useless IQ 70 subhumans who eat a heavy diet of corn and sugar and this idea that these people need full and unfiltered access to any and all treatments available without regards to cost is retarded.

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>>131669220
First you need a design; talk to conpanies and bid and all that. Hes doing that. You think a wall is built in a day? Lol antifag alert.

Trump has already done more in 100 days than obama would have in 100 years.

By the way have you heard of project veritas? So much win.

>>131669894
Your insurance company didn't pay for those 7 million out of their pockets. They were paid into the system using your tax-money.

Big Insurance is raping you because they can, and they have an "excuse". It's like how gasoliine used to shoot up whenever there was a riot in the middle-east, even though the national reserves were overflowing.

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>>131669220

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>>131669973
>Some people are just net drains on the system.
Now you are just talking shit on our proud boardmates.

>>131669973
>Some people are just net drains on the system.
Like executives.

>>131662167
good, they are leeches, healthcare is NOT a right to everyone must chip in or else..... Fucking commies.....

>>131669089
>You'd have to dismantle Intellectual property rights in the process and you'll end up with a system that punishes investment in innovation and research
Most of the research is already done with public funds by students. The ideals you're trying to save don't even exist.
>You'll halt all progress in the medical field
>muh progress
As I said, the NIH already funds the bulk of research. Novelty is not progress. Many of these new fancy muh innovative classes of drugs have had severe safety issues. Your imaginary friend is not worth dying for.
>make the entire healthcare research system subject to the political whims of whoever is appointed to be director of NIH.
Then hire 14 more of him and make it a committee. Are you such a little baby that you can't think to adjust things, or does being dominated by private corporations really make your pants happy?
>Whoops, looks like we've been spending way too much on researching prostate cancer! How
Then why aren't you getting off you whiny submissive ass and making Washington feel it, you cuck? Stop being a wizard, stop eating American processed dog shit, and you won't have a prostate problem. Muh research, you fucking useless consumer.
>You are creating a world of pain by taking away the power of people to opt out of the system. Your Utopian fantasies will end in fucking DISASTER
Don't talk to me about disaster. Your utopian fantasies are sustained by denial and ignorance of what actually happens. If there were disaster to be had, we would have seen it after several decades. Countries with single-payer would be more than just three or four points behind the US on health care outcomes.
How do you feel about your pee-pants terror being laughed at by countries which do not actually aspire to third-world status like yours?

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>>131669994
So we need to invent the Wall???
I feel the people of Mesopotamia managed that ten thousand years ago.

No, the problem is that the Legislature laughed and alloted no monies to it.
>>131670155
>Big Money needs to buy the guy who makes no laws nor controls no tax-monies.

>>131661947
>Is there anything actually wrong with obamacare
Well for starters, if you can't afford health insurance, you have to pay a fine for not having health insurance. If you can't afford health insurance, a fine is the last thing you need. I'd say that's a pretty big fucking problem. Why not just start fining poor people for being poor?

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>>131669810
Hillary was suppose to be elected andd keep things covered up.

>trump elected
>3500 pedos in sex traffick ring arrested
>clintons and comey exposed
>fake news exposed
>bernie under investigation for bank fraud
>investigators moving in on obama

>>131664527
I am opposed to your solution, but not as opposed as I am to the status quo.

We have an issue in the USA of corruption. I don't see it as capitalism, but some call it that. Corporate/government/government employee collusions to milk the people.
True conservative or true socialist policies, practiced by true believers, would be much better now than this blob of shit we deal with today.
I think conservatives are willing to compromise with socialists. Not sure of the inverse.
Let's get rid of all this bullshit. There is already tons of socialistic ideas injected into our day to day. Rolling all of that back is painful as fuck. Work with us to clean up what we already have instead of pushing a system already broken into expanding.
Education costs, healthcare costs- these two large portions of the economy become markedly worse the more government and money we put into them. Why?

>>131669711
They've been working on cures for type 1 for decades and are getting closer every year. It's a complicated process.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2017/may/dri-biohub-device-helps-woman-achieve-insulin-independence-in-new-type-1-diabetes-trial-99961748.html

Type 2 has a simple cure.
https://diatribe.org/virta-health-launches-to-reverse-type-2-diabetes-with-low-carb-diets-coaching
Just stop eating carbs. But people wont do it because they are fat lazy pieces of shit who feel entitled to pizza and muffins.

So instead, your govenrment bureaucracy is going to tell them
>Go ahead, have your cake, it's not your fault you got fat! We'll just raise taxes on healthy people to pay for your foot amputation and then increase funding to social awareness campaigns about the epidemic of Fat Shaming!

>>131670223
Jesus, I can just smell the NEET on you.
Go get a real job you fucking beta piece of shit and then maybe you'll realize just how hard "executives" have to work to earn enough to subsidize your ADHD meds

>>131670524
Hes doing it soon just not with this years budget. Hes too busy shutting down free shit for illegal spicks and climate scam shit. Youll see. Hell do it and the left will look stupid the more they open their dick suckers.

Hows working at CNN btw?

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>>131670844
You get back to me when all this starts happening, memester.

>>131669894
>because of the need for covering 7 million uninsured
No, they didn't. They went up because the bill, designed by the Heritage Foundation and written by the health insurance and pharma industries, set a minimum loss ratio, and being conscience-less corporations, they aimed to keep as much of your premium money as they could. It's like you don't even understand how corporations work.

>>131669973
>Some people are just net drains on the system
So? Are you going to spend twice as much just to find them and cut them off than serve them?
>The US has a plethora of useless IQ 70 subhumans who eat a heavy diet of corn and sugar
Why do they do that, I wonder? Could it be because Republicans subsidize corn? This is the American lifestyle, you self-superior little Randite babby. You ordered it. You pay for it.
>and this idea that these people need full and unfiltered access to any and all treatments available
is a straw man and ridiculous. People who can see the doctor more often because they don't get a bill, will also be told more often to stop consuming like an American.

>>131670838
I can smell the rich kid econ student entitlement on you. Kill yourself, you useless aristocrat, and then maybe you'll realize how completely valueless you are to us.

>>131670594
>First 100 days
>Endless Tabloid Wars
Quite the accomplishment for your tabloid-tier Tweetmaster.

>>131670638
I am willing to compromise with socialists. Let's have a mixed economy; by which I mean separate out capitalism, from all social services.
All the land the govt has, ship the unemployed people there, make them sow, and reap...build some factories.
Make them provide for themselves. This would help our economy too, because we could buy their cheap local shit.
To sum it up in a sentence, if we need to centralize ANYTHING, centralize the UNEMPLOYED?
Right? How hard is that? If they want socialism...give it to them.

>>131671314
You'd start hurting all the Capitalists who profiteer off the social service industry, for one.

>>131670378
>being dominated by private corporations
Private corporations don't get to show up at your door and haul you to prison if you refuse to pay them.
What makes you trust politicians so much more than businessmen? You try and take that power out of Pharma and give it to the Government, and who do you think will get placed in all the positions of power of the new healthcare bureaucracy?
It's going to be the same people who fund political campaigns and Super PACs. The same people will run the industry only now they have the leverage of the US Government to use to fuck you over as well.

>>131669711
>Do you realize how much money Big optometry would stand to lose if they CURED farsightedness?

Meditate on that a bit. Cures do t come out because they are fucking hard to find. And the "lifetime treatment" meme ignores the fact that patents expire. And one it's off patent, it's cheap.

>>131671489
Good. This actually translates to the Democratic Party, being out of jobs.
BEST idea ever!!

>>131662944

^ This...

The boomers are pieces of shit and will drive up the deficit until they are all dead.

Instead of letting the economy collapse as it should have in 2007 they extended the bubble in order to keep their investments inflated in this farce of an economy.

They have no intentions of "fixing" anything.

Their entire plan is as simple as taking out a new credit card to pay off their old credit card at the expensive of national debt. They do this while also laundering some of that loan money into whoever knows where.

>>131663781

> muh rich people are all evil

No... non-working rich people are the enemy.

You know... the rich white liberal who has 10 properties, 6 businesses all employing sun minimum wage mexican slaves and tenants.

The same people who pretend to be on the people's side but vote for immigration behind their backs.

>>131670638
>Education costs, healthcare costs- these two large portions of the economy become markedly worse the more government and money we put into them. Why?

Ive already explained why healthcare is costly, because everyone has insurance.

The thing people need to understand is that if everyone (or almost everyone) has insurance (which people do through their employer), then we already have a system where everyone is paying into the system, to pay for the costs of those who need it.

There is zero practical difference between that system and it being just a different thing that is paid into. No difference between your employer lowering your wages an average of $1500 a year to pay for your health insurance plan, or an extra $1500 of your pay being deducted in the form of taxes and you using a national health plan.
They are identical thing.

(most) Everyone being insured means that the health care costs can be raised to the maximum that the insurance companies are able to still profit from under this system.


If only some people were insured, if it was not a huge thing like it is, then prices would come down eventually, but that would result in a system where some people would suffer from it.

Operating from the premise then that health care for a population is part of the overall societies collective interest (and it is, people meme about not wanting to pay for someones transition or some fat persons gastric bypass but with out health care we will literally get massive pandemics. You are healthier by not being around sick people, the community as a whole benefits from everyone else in the community being as healthy as possible), you then have a question of what is the best way to manage it.

The problem here is illustrated in your phrasing "the more government money". The problem as ive been saying all along is cost. The solution is not to continue feeding money into something. Both capitalists and marxists are always thinking in terms of wealth distribution

>>131671572
I didn't get to vote for the CEO of Phizer.
In fact, I don't even get to hear about their decision making process.
>Private corporations can't destroy my living.
Private companies get to subject you to the Death by a Million Gouges.

>>131671820
behind their backs...chuckle chuckle. This must mean something else nowadays?

>>131671804
>Do you realize how much money Big optometry would stand to lose if they CURED farsightedness

I had lens replacement surgery done on both eyes this very year, the bill to my insurance was over $16,000 dollars. That would pay for a fuckton of prescription glasses.

>>131662567
yes

>>131671572
>Private corporations don't get to show up at your door and haul you to prison if you refuse to pay them.
The IRS doesn't even bother with that.
>What makes you trust politicians so much more than businessmen?
There is literally no difference. Send both to the ovens.
>You try and take that power out of Pharma and give it to the Government, and who do you think will get placed in all the positions of power of the new healthcare bureaucracy?
In the worst case, the same people. In the probable case, career public servants. Tell you what, though: kill off medical device and drug patents, and I'd be happy to let pharma live. They can compete like good little corporations.
>only now they have the leverage of the US Government to use to fuck you over as well.
>implies they don't already
The ACA was written by a health insurance VP. You need to be 18 to post here, innocent little babby.

>>131662204
That's a decent house payment in the midwest. That's an insane amount of money for something that comes with big deductibles and copays out the ass.

>>131671845
As far as education, the answer can be inferred in part i think by looking at the STEM meme.

The way it played out is this:
1. Companies (and the government backed by lobbyists) push the STEM meme hard.
2. People fall for the meme, and a whole generation rushes out to get STEM degrees
3. There is now oversaturation of qualified individuals, companies can pick their favorite and everyone else is out of luck.

Companies benefit here by having their choice and job competition to ensure they can pay low wages, universities benifit from people attending them, everyone but the student benifits.

Universities have credit card providers sitting out front offering students, most of which have zero life experiences, credit lines. This is all bundled togeather, its massive collusion (and collusion does not have to be explicitly agreed upon, it can simply be a comfortable situation multiple people are benefiting from) it is taking advantage of people.

Another reason education is so costly is because people then recover from these failed endevors by trying to justify their degree. "It was worth it" they will reason, and get some job doing something unrelated, and climb the ladder, and from thereon out demand new employees have fallen for the same gimmick.

The majority of people in universities should be attending trade schools instead.

The solution to both is just government reform. You need to end lobbying entirely to start. Congresspeople all take lobbyist money, they have to because they need money to pay their corrupt parties to gain any political power.

So abolishing political parties, something george washington would be all for, is another important step.

>>131661947
Healthcare needs to be 100% privatized. If you can't take care of yourself AND your family can't take care of you, it's a good thing your bloodline will end. Now to mention it would be loads cheaper.

>>131672115
How much less would that bill have been if the insurer didn't hire thousands of failed nursing students who couldn't hack patient care, for the purpose of fighting every bill, or the doctor didn't have to hire a biller to fight on the doctor's behalf with a dozen different companies, each with their own policies and payment schedules? Insurers are pure dead-weight, like most if not all middlemen.

>>131672115
Exactly.
And how much do you think someone with type 1 or type 2 diabetes would pay up front for a cure? I watched my dad live with and die from diabetes. if I had it, and there was a cure, id mortgage my house and pay for it right there.

>>131671037
>Kill yourself, you useless aristocrat, and then maybe you'll realize how completely valueless you are to us.
Ah, here it comes. Typical Marxist drivel. Somehow you Left Wing Losers always fail to realize how useless you really are and project your abject failure at life onto others. No wonder the few times your kind have seized political control of countries they always collapse epically.
You don't know what work is. You don't understand value. You don't know anything and you walk around spouting recycled psuedointellectual garbage like it's gospel.

Get a real job. Once you see what it's like to work your ass off every day and have people you love depend on you maybe then you'll realize just how worthless you were when you were spouting this nonsense on a Chinese Finger Painting forum.

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>>131672400
Campaign reform, real reform would begin to fix so many of the nation's problems, which is why it will never be more than a talking point (in non-election years).

The people who should fix it are hooked on it, it's like trying to get heroin addicts to organize the burning of poppy fields.

>>131661947
>Force health care to all via mandate
>Healthcare is litterally risk management we're the company Gamble's you will not need it,but pay for piece of mind

>Force healthcare to all, exemption on conditions

>Businesses now have to get healthcare for all their employees, so they bump up price,and I. The case of restraunts give smaller portions.

>Getting fined if you don't got health care or any of your dependents doesn't.

>It cheaper to take the fine then the "affordable" health care that is only truly given to unemployed Poor's who are most likely playing the system than to working class people who are unironically supporting the poor health,even though a poor is more likely to make terrible health choices and not give a fuck.

Why don't the republicans just create a NHS and nationalize all hospitals?

Easy

>>131672496
If the government had to "pay for" diabetes care, the government would also go after the sources of the problem: industrial agriculture, and specifically, corn.

>>131672648
>Get a real job. Once you see what it's like to work your ass off every day
Fuck off, nigger. Your slavery is not something to be proud of. If you parasitic executive types were dead I would only need to work about half as much.

>>131671572
Private companies are only justifiable in small business bubbles due to competition they fight each other instead of preying on us. In case you didnt notice we are in the post modernist era. Im tried of all this shilling for mega government or mega corporations. We need proper education and majordownsizing. People are forgetting how to live. you take them out of the city and they will probably starve to death let alone walk 5 feet.

>>131672467
The military needs to be 100% privatized. If you cant hire your own soldiers, its a good thing your land be conquered.

Lawyers need to be 100% privatized, if you cant afford your own legal defense, you deserve to lose.

Roads need to be 100% privatized, if you cant pay the toll you dont deserve to be able to go anywhere

Can only provide you with it from my perspective.
>Insurance rate doubles
>Its shit

I don't like it.

>>131661947
Well, I really don't like Obama so I want everything he did to be destroyed forever. I personally would prefer things go back to how they were before Obamacare became a thing.
No universal healthcare at all is preferable.

>>131662944
>ruthlessly fucking the poor whites that drop votes for them.
That's not true at all and you know this. The poor whites depending on Obamacare voted for Hillary and the majority of poor people is non-white.

>>131663525
I don't get this meme. 60% of rural people, 55% of suburbanites and 35% of urban people voted Republican, yet people pretend that only people outside cities voted for them?

>>131672830
America is anti big goverment,and bases on puritan worth ethic we're Poor's are poor cause they sinners and don't work hard,and working hard all you need. what you speak of is commie bs you non-country
>>131672975
Lawyers will Jew you though. Public defender are litterally good people whovwill get fucked by no bs and turn incompetent,due to third dream of helping being crushed.

>>131673167
Trump got 67% of Whites with no college degree.
That doesn't seem to imply an overwhelming Democratic lean of poor Whites.

>>131668651
A lot of that is subvention for crops in the North or nigger welfare in the South.

>>131673516
Yeah, I forgot about all that corn and niggers in Alaska.

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>>131673492
Whites without college degrees aren't necessarily poor since they are mostly boomers who still earn a high wage.
Fact is, poor people vote overwhelmingly Democrat so it doesn't really matter if you fuck them over.

>>131673688
Nice cherrypicking, nigger lover.
Alaska is the same as Hawaii (a pure blue state), just some place removed from mainland America.

My payments went from 485$ for family coverage in 2012 to 930$ per month in 2016.

So my take home per check in 2012 was 1440$ @ 30$/hour and in 2016 was 1520$ @ 36$/hour. At the old rate Id be at about 1720$ per check in 2016.

My max out of pocket per year went from 3,000 to 5,000$.

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>>131673788
You realize that Illinois is choked full of both Corn and Niggers, right?

>>131674066
Yeah and their budget is totally fucked. Funny, isn't it?
By the way, Alaska does have a good amount of niggers. 15%.

>>131673903
Where the fuck do you work that pays $30 an hour with no healthcare?
I make $22 an hour with General Mills and pay less than a $100 dollars a month for full healthcare.

The whole penalty if you don't have healthcare is absolute horse shit. Essentially you're penalizing people if they don't, in the end, buy something from the government.

>>131671845
>They are identical thing.
government bureaucracies and for profit bureaucracies are NOT the same thing. The later has incentives to cut red tape if it saves money the former does not. You can see if with the regulations levied by ObmamCare. Doctors spend way more time (time= money, money that is wasted) filling out forms to get reimbursed than they ever used to. This will only get worse with single payer.

>>131674142
Alaska is 4.3% black.
And no one is talking about State budgets, Illinois isn't taking YOUR money. The discussion was Federal Gibs.

>>131674557
4.5% black. It seems I mixed them up with natives.
>And no one is talking about State budgets, Illinois isn't taking YOUR money. The discussion was Federal Gibs.
I'd like to see the current stats.

>>131673691
I know multiple white who have no college degree who make six figures. One is a multi millionaire. Democrats with journalism or clit rubbing degrees can't wrap their mind around someone producing something of worth without some paper from a college saying "He did good"

>>131661947

>forcing people to purchase health insurance under the threat of fining them more than they would pay for their insurance in the first place.

>YOU HAVE TO PURCHASE INSURANCE.

This is the fundamental flaw, however the entire bill itself is pure evil and designed to destroy our healthcare system. Not to mention it fucks the people who are actually responsible by raising their insurance costs.

Fuck Obamacare, I never knew a single person who liked it until Trump (or congress rather) started removing it. Now libs are all up in arms because they're tools.

>>131674678
College degrees are a massive scam in your country anyway. Only stem provides a relatively secure way into a job and the majority of educated people aren't stem graduates.

>>131674515
>ignore that it works everywhere else, it wont work!

>>131675162
>ignoring that other countries were flying into the US for treatment before obamacare.

>>131674273
I bet that anon is an independent contractor, just like a growing number of people in muh economy.
t.independent contractor
>>131674515
>The later has incentives to cut red tape
Saves money for who, you randbabby? They have NO incentive to pass that savings on to me, so why should I want for profit bureaucracy?
>This will only get worse with single payer.
Then why does it work exactly the opposite in EVERY country with single payer? Because doctors don't have to argue with some failed nurse about every fucking line item on a bill. They don't have to hire an employee solely to sort out all the different billing rules of every insurance company and pass the rest along to the patient, and to track which bills are getting paid and which don't. They merely send the ONE bill to the payer and not worry about it. Have you ever even worked anywhere near medical billing? No? Then sit down and listen to people who do.
Also you have to be 18 to post here.

>>131662345
Talk about controlled opposition.

>>131674273
Thats thru my employer.

>>131665955
It's horseshit because it attempts to confuse people with rate of change. Yes, premiums spiked during early 2000s. But they are still increasing at an average of 26%increase 16' - 17'. It's not helping.

Additionally, the massive increases in premiums occurred at beginning of gwb and were close to current at end of gwb terms. So ACA did not fix it as it was already trending. Now risk had gotten jacked and services from insurers had gone down in quality. If quality stayed the same premiums would have risen much much higher. Plus the system structure relies on tax appropriation from other gov programs as well as local budgets.

>>131675537
And people from the US were going to south america to get certain procedures done, your point?

Neither of these have anything to do with normal medical care.

>>131672975
Doesn't make sense to hire a military, how would you expect one person to pay the salary's AND benefits (healthcare) for an entire army? Dumb!

I agree with lawyers and roads being privatized.

>>131674273
Family coverage wether its you and your spouse or you the wife and 12 kids its 930$. Is 100$ per month for single?

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>>131671162
>said he would be transparent
>proved it

>tabloid wars
You mean CNN

>>131676056
>one person paying the salary of an ENTIRE MEDICAL TEAM? Dumb!

>i agree with lawyers
think really carefully about this because if you are not just memeing you are legitimately a scumbag. This goes beyond lolbertarianisms retarded but potentially well meaning utopian market to literally 'the poor should have no rights'

>>131675772
Depending on where you live, that's not really a very good job.
I'm in corn country, with cheap property/rents and a general low cost of living. I am likely doing twice as well as you at $22 an hour if you're in a big urban area.

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>>131661947
It's a regressive tax on independent contractor type employees and small businesses. I write software as a 1099 and used to pay $150 a month for A+ health insurance. Now, I don't even have the option to buy that old policy. What is being sold is 3x more expensive in terms of premiums with 2.5x higher deductables. It's not even worth buying for most health needs, it's just catastrophic insurance coverage.

Obamacare is the most anti-job growth law enacted in probably the last 50 years. it throws a ridiculous burden on small to medium sized businesses who can't go to insurance brokers like Cygna and get good rates via pooled insurance. It constructs a total disincentive to starting small businesses or working as an independent contractor via inflating the costs of basic insurance 200-300% higher than what they used to be.

>>131675629
It doesn't. Canadians come to the US every chance they get in order to pay out of pocket to use our health care system because their single payer system is substandard to ours as far as providing actual care when it is needed.

>>131676187
>said he would be transparent
Spouting off like a drunken asshole on Twitter at 3AM doesn't equal "transparency".
>Tabloid wars
Yes, I mean the Executive branch has degenerated into tabloid accusations back and forth with the Media, with both having equal responsibility.

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>>131665955
It's cherry-picked af.
>employer-sponsored
Also doesn't account for the decline in quality of coverage.
Can you prove that partisan Democrats don't need to kill themselves?

>>131676429
>Canadians come to the US every chance they get in order to pay out of pocket to use our health care system because their single payer system is substandard
One or two, probably. I think you need to prove that you're not just cherry-picking stories from your corporate authorities.

>>131676249
You're an idiot, lawyers are already 95% private. There would be no difference in court appointed attorneys being from private companies rather than working directly for the government, except for them needing to hold themselves to a higher standard. Dumb!

>>131676429
[Citation...oh who am I kidding, you're never going to attempt to back that up factually.

>>131676408
Pretty sad video, mexican dude died

>>131662345
Your name doesn't even need to appear and i can already tell you are obongo leaf.

It's basically Medicare Part D 2.0, but it's not solvent.

>>131676260
Its just lifestyle choice really. Some like what the city has to offer so you pay out the ass some like the rural areas for its nature and seclusion.

>>131661947
Obamacare had nothing to do with lowering family premiums. It was about enriching the insurance companies and inevitability hospitals.

Obummer

>>131672975
the lawyer thing could happen and no one would even notice. a public defender is a farce. he works at the courthouse. his coworkers are the prosecutor and the judge. he eats lunch with them. you see what I'm getting at here?

>>131661947
For a family of 4. My preimuns went from 8500 to 18,675 per year. Obama is a traitor and I hope trump sends him to Gitmo.

>>131676703
The City/State isn't going to hire a $200 an hour lawyer to defend your Sister when she shoots her nigrah boyfriend.

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>>131676830
This.

Shit bones insurance companies some $1-3K per holder, forcing the companies to raise premiums/deductibles.

>>131677138
Won't he send Hillary to jail first?

>>131676703
>There would be no difference in court appointed attorneys being from private companies

What do you think single payer is? Health care companies bid for the government contract. It all gets renegotiated occasionally giving other companies a chance to get in, fostering competition.

>>131676260
Yeah live in a county that went that went to Hillary, imports Somalis and pays 2x stadium taxes.

>>131677138
Holy shit.

>>131661947
>Is there anything actually wrong with obamacare or do people want to get rid of it because a nigger made it so it must naturally be ineffective?
It compels people to buy insurance. The people who loose insurance under trumps alterations are all the ones who didnt want it to begin with. All the system are still there for those that actually want to have it.

>>131677312
You'll believe anything, I take it?

>>131677070
>be clearly in the right
>defend self
>not follow procedure
>half your evidence gets thrown out

vs

>have public defender
>he says things the right way to ensure all the stuff that proves you are in the right can be used
>the obvious evidence convinces the jury

Not every trial is between who can lie and fine loopholes better.

>>131677453
Everyone on /pol/ believes they are an Ace Attorney who could beat the government in a pitched legal battle for their 2nd amendment right to own a howitzer.

>>131677426
Yeah

>>131677702
Everything will be O.K.

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>>131666400
>seriously ill
Look, if you are saying a mental disease, those are not real. IF you are saying cancer or some shit, you have to want it to get it. If you are saying a car crash or shit, it was the fucking victims fault unless someone did a sharp ass turn out of nowhere or it was a normal truck of peace thing.

>>131677426
Whats issue mine went from 5820$ 2012 to 11,160$ 2016 for family coverage. His numbers arent to crazy.

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>>131666047
We've had dildo's for at least 28,000 years though. Not quite as much but still impressive.

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>>131677825
I cannot find holes in your logic.
You sir, are a formidable opponent.

>>131661947
Obamacare's business insurance mandate killed a merger my business was working on.
My wife's company worked on obamacare, and their rates went up so much they couldn't cover her healthcare 100% anymore. In 2 years it went to 150 a month. The company never paid less, that's just how much more it cost. They literally saw how much of a cluster it would be since they were being hired to work on it.
I was self employed (running my own business) which meant i had to buy it on the market, but we couldn't afford the ridiculously high rates (i was in one of the states with the biggest hikes) and i was only about 300 a year shy of it being so expensive i could be exempt.
So I've been without insurance, and still have had to pay thousands in fines.
But nah, it's totes cause he's black

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>>131677992
I believe it 100%. As a 29 year old male my basic coverage went from $150/mo to right around $375.

Figure that for a female my age, the base rate is double (lol vaginas) so assume $750/mo. Then tack on kids at another $200/mo each.

That's $18300 a year up in smoke on a shitty high deductible health insurance plan.

>>131661947
IT'S UNCONSTITUTIONAL

>>131676830
>solvent
>le kitchen table meme
Sovereign currency issuers don't need to worry about solvency. They can add money to the system through spending at any time, and tax it back out to prevent inflation.

>>131677667
>pitched legal battle
Pitched battles are for cucks. Winners stab people in the back while smiling to their faces.

>>131677244
Why did you change the subject? We were talking about lawyers, And they are very different. Other healthcare companies would not be able to survive once one was picked for single payer, killing all competition. While law firms are still able to flourish even with state appointed ones.

>>131661947
one of the biggest and most overlooked burdens of Obamacare is the costs passed onto businesses, especially small businesses.
Remember when Bernie got asked about this at the debate with Ted and had no answer?

>>131662567
>Do you think poor people should die so that you yourself don't become poor by having to provide for them more than yourself?
ftfy

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>>131679725
Yep, it's catastrophically horrible for independent contractors and small businesses. As I stated before, Obamacare is the most anti-small business piece of legislation ever passed. I doubt that was the intent, but it sure as hell is the net result.

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>>131676817
good

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>>131661947
Nigulus Maximus or not, the govt sucks asshole at managing things outside of killing people. I lost my insurance coverage, and the new insurance I got was more expensive and worse.

>>131662567
First off they are not going to die because I, and others were responsible, and paid for our own insurance. All Obama care did was take more money from myself, and the economy to pay for people who would rather spend their money on crap. It has done what it was intended to do, and that is to finish killing off the Middle Classes ability to move upward. Obama, and the whole Federal system hate the MC. Also note that Congress got a subsidy to offset the increased cost to them. This happened because the you have to pass it to reads its whined about it being costly. Again your caring liberals in action.

>>131679725
>Remember when Bernie got asked about this at the debate with Ted and had no answer?
Bernie was sent by the Democrats to defend the Heritage Foundation's health plan, not single-payer. There really is no answer to why private corporations should be able to use government to force people to buy their unsafe product.

>>131680563
>the govt sucks asshole at managing things outside of killing people.
>the govt
>the
Know how I can tell you're an amerislave?

>>131680773
>the Middle Classes ability to move upward
The upper classes don't want you moving upward. Have you never into competition?

>>131680912
Middle class could double their financial worth and the rich would still never see competition.

>>131663155
How about lowering the actual cost of health care (vs insurance)?

>>131663596
Trump's stayed reason for many of his campaign promises is that they are what the people want. Those who agreed with him voted for him.

>>131681419
>Middle class could double their financial worth and the rich would still never see competition.
The rich would see competition not in richness, but in the order of society. A middle class that doesn't need the rich might do something "surprising" like ally with rednecks. Remember, elites exist because of elitism and they will die to defend that system if they run out of inferiors to put through the grinder.

>>131661947
It's shit. My premiums doubled and my deductible was raised to $7000. Just had surgery and it's going to cost over $10,000 with deductible and OOPM.

>>131661947
It's not perfect because there was constant efforts from both the GOP and the Dems to make it as much of a handout to the insurance industry as possible, but for the average poor-ass American it generally helped. Several states with Republican governors refused to take the medicaid expansions offered pro-bono and then bitched about how the ACA didn't help their constituents.

It's hardly perfect, but effort should be made to fix the problems with it, not cut tens of millions off insurance, jerk off the insurance industries even more, and cut as many taxes as the GOP can get away with for rich jews.

>>131664173
Wait, if your argument is correct than we all deserve the highest standard of living, resources, Healthcare, food, water, and the traditional social services that we take for granted, such as fire and police. Also, if we follow your argument through, there is no such thing as a legitimate charge for any of these services. Therfore, by your own statement regarding free market necessities, taxation is unreasonable at best.

>>131673691
>people still fall for the "whites without college being tricked by le ebil moneybags man" meme
>when a German knows more about American elections than around a quarter of Americans

>>131681706
Private insurance is the source of much of the indirect cost of health care. If every physician's office didn't have to hire a biller to negotiate with insurers, if insurers didn't hire an army of failed nurses to fight against paying out any of YOUR money, if insurers and their denbts to Wall Street just didn't exist in the first place, if doctors didn't have to carry malpractice insurance to cover the cost of their own errors and accidents and punitive damages, and so on.
Compare to the situation if the doctor merely sent a bill to Medicare and got paid timely, and risked the occasional audit with 20 years in prison for fraud, and the care provided to the victim of a medical error was billed the same way as any other care and so on.
As for pharma, intellectual property limitations and monopsony would push the cost of treatments down toward cost, which is a good thing. If we want innovation, we can fund that at the university level. Every college kid needs a master's project.

>>131661947
it's from a god damned criminal imposter that was elected by morons and niggers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alpPFYOk14U

>>131661947
>I have to pay a fine (that's cheaper than the actual insurance plans) if I don't have insurance that I'm legally required to have

>>131663791
yup, the poor are exempt from the penalty while the others participate leaving them poorer without any worthwhile care or coverage, or they get money stolen from their income tax return

>>131683078
No, they aren't exempt. It's just a percentage of their income.
I work as an independent contractor and I have never laughed harder at you wage slave suckers in my life.

>>131664328
>It was working fine before

do retards actually believe this?

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>>131662167
>implying the american herd doesn't need to thinned
We've got plenty of black sheep who leech too much welfare

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>>131683253
exempt from the fine because they cant afford even the shittiest plan
i should know as ive never been able to afford healthcare and from what i hear wouldnt want it

>>131683820
Oh, you're right, I forgot about that part.
Health insurance isn't health care, by the way. You can still pay cash for health care, to the doctors, pharmacies, etc. Health insurance is nothing but a parasitic scam.

>>131684385
So you pay full price for an ambulance ride, a hospital stay, and all relevant scans and treatments?

>>131683401
No, but people with jobs do.

>>131685079
no ive just keep from extreme bodily injury by not being a complete retard
that and a splash of luck
and other anon, youre right. ive never had health insurance (except as a child)

>>131685079
Of course not. Providers are often willing to give you a sizable discount off the chargemaster rate if you pay regularly. Providers want to deal with insurance companies about as much as you do, which is to say, not at all.

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>>131662167
wow maybe theyll have to pay for their own plan like i have been doing since i was 19 years old the same plan which increased in price 300%+ since niggercare took hold

>>131685079
Yes you moron, up to their deductibles which are crazy high. Health insurance is not health care. Health insurance is supposed to protect you when something catastrophic occurs so you can pay for your expensive health care. It's not supposed to subsidizing a bunch of leeches healthcare.
I had health insurance for 35 years until 2011. I haven't had it since, not because I can't afford it, because I'm not fucking stupid and paying for you assholes' free ride. I don't pay the fines either, they have to steal it from my bank account, which they do. Nice work fuck face thieves. I used to be OK with the price of insurance and the piece of mind that came with it. Now, I want nothing to do with it. Free men don't have to pay a corporation to exist.

>>131685992
>steal it from my bank account
Know how I can tell you're larping?

>>131685501
I only take Medicaid now because the frequency of private insurance audits became so great that I spent a large amount of overhead and stress on audits.

>>131661947
What pisses me off about this subject is no one bothered to look into why Republicans opposed it.

They don't fucking hate the idea of healthcare. They hate the fact Obama care contained tons of hidden things tacked on a massive pile of papers and bullshit that was passed without scrutiny.

The Democrats who argued for it used the argument that it should be passed so they could read it afterwards.

Guess what? The people who fought for it said they didn't like certain parts after it was passed. There is a strong possibility hidden in it is a requirement that all Americans are required to have a chip implant before 2020.

Politicians do not require it if they don't have insurance, like every other American.

It fucked the economy horribly at a time when 2/3rds of Americans were struggling and caused the increase in people having to take second or third jobs to maintain a basic standard of living.

How you might ask?

>Everyone must have insurance.
>Companies must offer insurance to employees that work 40 hours a week.
>Only those that work 40 hours a week.

Suddenly every company started only hiring part time or just under 40 hours a week, with harsh punishments for anyone who worked over time.

If you work more than one job to pay your bills, while you are told by baby boomers you don't deserve a raise so you don't have to work multiple jobs, blame Obama care.

>>131682549
No not exactly.
Government/FDR was to blame because of wage caps, so companies wanting to attract the best workers offered health insurance as a benefit to off set the caps.
Then later LBJ with his great society started medicade/care, but then the government as usual siad this is what we will pay, which was below the actual cost, so this meant providers had to charge more to get their money. Then insurance companies did the same causing the prices to rise further until we find ourselves in this mess.

>>131686303
You've never heard the word "levy" before?
I bet you're a real well behaved slave, aren't you?

>>131687676
>Then later LBJ with his great society started medicade/care, but then the government as usual siad this is what we will pay, which was below the actual cost, so this meant providers had to charge more to get their money.
kek. I have never seen a history of US health care so retconned with the axe you have to grind.

>>131688458
>levy
I've heard it.
>What happens if I don't pay the fee?
>The IRS will hold back the amount of the fee from any future tax refunds. There are no liens, levies, or criminal penalties for failing to pay the fee.
That's how I can tell you're larping. I'm a "shared responsibility" fee refusenik, and in no case has the IRS ever gone after me for that shared responsibility payment or threatened to do so.
Are you larping, or just a health insurance adjuster desperately pleading for your own job? Proofs of levy or slit your wrists on livestream, faggot.

>>131662567
That's extortion. I am not interested in paying $430 extra per month (plus skyrocketing deductible and reduced coverage for my own family) just to keep some lazy fuck covered under a shit insurance plan because they won't get a job and support themselves.

And if they were literally going to die without their shit healthcare plan that they aren't paying for, why exactly are we going out of our way to keep them alive?

>>131663371
>implying we need to replace it
Were you alive before Obamacare existed? Healthcare was cheap, available and effective. It wasn't broken before Soetorocare. The only reason Republicans aren't ready with a replacement plan is because they were going for full repeal up until President Trump promised they'd replace it.

>>131688841
>Assumes someone like me gets a 'refund'
I pay in more than you make, junior, every year for longer than you've been on earth.
When you owe the IRS money, and you don't pay them, they will take it and will take your shit if you don't have the money.
And they don't take the time to itemize it on a levy. Get a fucking clue, and quit jerking off to tranny porn faggot.