Genuine Communist debate/ discussion .

shitposting in a gommie thred

I am a Marxist-Leninist although i disagree a lot about what the soviet union did after 1956 is still view them as the prime example of socialism.

If you use any of these arguments you are wrong and uneducated. Think before you say:
>Stalin was Communist
>North Korea is Communist
>Cuba was a failure
>Communism is against human nature
>Communism is a failure
>Communism led to genocide
>Khmer Rogue was a failure
>Neoliberals = leftists
>USA won the Cold War

>>131606610
fuck off to imaginary ancapistan

>>131606760
Literally this

Kys commie scum

>>131606559
Kill your self you genocidal maniac

>>131606947
Problem?

>>131607042
Fuck off

>>131607042
>>131606947
>>131606947
ITT brainlets who never read a book and are brainwashed by 1950s American imperialist propaganda.

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>>131606559
Every attempt to at communism has failed and reverted back to private ownership. For good reason too.

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>>131606559

>be me
>it's 1952
No one took it too serious what's going on.

The Soviet Union had a fucklot of fiction writers, but we don't read it anymore. It's just a void in the national culture.

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>>131606559
>>131607215

>>131606760
>Stalin was Communist
>North Korea is Communist
No theyre socialists communism is impossible to achieve
>Cuba was a failure
*Cuba is a failure
>Communism is against human nature
>Communism is a failure
It cant be a failure because it can never exist and it is against human nature.
>Communism led to genocide
agreed because of above points but socialism sure as fuck will see the holodomer great leap forward etc etc
>Khmer Rogue was a failure
>Neoliberals = leftists
Khmer Rogue was a failure because the killed or enslaved all of their educated professionals. What are you talking about in regards to neo liberalism all you leftys have varying definitions nowadays ?
>USA won the Cold War
The soviet union imploded and china is making our nikes.

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Reminder communism is for preteens

>>131607263
Oh if only there was a third way

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>>131607263

>>131607359
You have no idea what you are talking about.

>>131606760
please explain to me how communism won the cold war

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>>131606559

>every stage requires millions dead

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>>131607377
There is brother, the way to eternal peace, harmony, beauty, progress, end to murder and crime.

>>131606559
“Himself a Jew, Marx has around him, in London and France, but especially in Germany, a multitude of more or less clever, intriguing, mobile, speculating Jews, such as Jews are every where: commercial or banking agents, writers, politicians, correspondents for newspapers of all shades, with one foot in the bank, the other in the socialist movement, and with their behinds sitting on the German daily press — they have taken possession of all the newspapers — and you can imagine what kind of sickening literature they produce. Now, this entire Jewish world, which forms a single profiteering sect, a people of blooksuckers, a single gluttonnous parasite, closely and intimately united not only across national borders but across all differences of political opinion — this Jewish world today stands for the most part at the disposal of Marx and at the same time at the disposal of Rothschild. I am certain that Rothschild for his part greatly values the merits of Marx, and that Marx for his part feels instinctive attraction and great respect for Rothschild.
This may seem strange. What can there be in common between Communism and the large banks? Oh! The Communism of Marx seeks enormous centralization in the state, and where such exists, there must inevitably be a central state bank, and where such a bank exists, the parasitic Jewish nation, which. speculates on the work of the people, will always find a way to prevail ....”
Mikhail Bakunin

>>131607523
those numbers are blown out of proportion also capitalism and nazism have killed more people then socialism ever could.

>>131607409
>>131607215
>>131607263
>>131607409
Anyone here having things click and make sense?
Having so e cognitive disonance?

>>131607550
thats a strasser quote idiot

>>131607058
>>131607091
>>131607359

>doesn't respond to actual arugments against him ideology
>responds to weak insults

GOMUNISM

>>131607571
Marx's father was formerly a jew who converted to Christianity and the whole "jew" argument is so fucking laughable. Kid just read a fucking book.

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>>131607483

>every system collapses and fails and kills millions
>instead of admitting this you attack and use insults

Are you even trying? Can you tell anyone why they'd want to try something that has failed every single time and caused incomprehensible amounts of suffering?

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>>131607483
Off my board commie scum

>>131607550
We are socialists eho continue adolf hitlers vision for beauty, true love, harmony and progression.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xy8kPfqzTwU

>>131607726
They weren't even arguments

>>131607626

>if I deny the truth I win

Doesn't work that way fuckboy. You're just proving that your system can only work in a moron's imagination.

>>131607754
>he doesnt know judaism is an ethnic as well as a religious identity
Maybe you are the one who needs to read a book

>>131607754
max was jewish
lenin was jewish
>radek was jewish
>martov was jewish
>goldman was jewish
>Trotsky was jewish

"lol weak argument bro"

>>131607780
It has not cuba is a good example of this not to mention the ussr before gorbachev was the perfect example of a socialist state as someone who has been to a socialist country the system works perfectly.

>>131606559
Marxist communism is the best in my personal view. I'd prefer to live in an atheist-state free from people that lack intelligence (religious people)

>>131607810
No you idiot you responded to the non arguments and did not respond to the arguments

>>131606760
Thank you! I need to use this, a lot of people are uneducated on the subject.

>>131607971
>socialist
>ends up having to allow some level of free trade

>>131607827
Show me evidence those numbers are true show me the fucking evidence

>>131608076
show me evidence of the holocaust first

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>>131607971

>Cuba works perfectly

Then why haven't you moved there? Or moved to North Korea?

>>131608076

>I'm too lazy to do any research

I can tell I'm dealing with an intellectual titan here.

>>131608076
You first for your ugly "holocaust" paintig us as murderers.

So long as theres no false lies about national socialism we will triumph.

>>131607903
I thought you were going by the religious few point. but the fact you legit think jews run socialism is fucking retarded

>>131606559
There is nothing genuine about communism. Ecconomic determinism is unscientific dogmatic stupidity.

>90 percent of leading communist and socialist are Jewish

"pure coincidence"

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>>131608317

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6p1zxKnDeM

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>>131607796
Our job as national socialists is to maintain the happiness and smiles of the world.

>>131608209
see
>>131607938
Also the Communist Revolution in the Weimar republic was lead by jews which is why hitler interned them

>>131607990
Marxism-Leninism has openly supported atheist views and encouraged science to be taught in schools. Also communist say that religion is a primitive thing humanity has not grown out of and that it is a weapon that the capitalists use against the working class.

>>131608138
Why would i want to abandon my country? i want to fight to make it free

>>131608437
>science
>race doesn't exist

GOMUNISM WORKS :-DDDDDD

>>131608197
says the guy who has probably believes everything robert conquest has said

>>131608583
>proceeds to believe everything marx said

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>>131608405

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>>131606559
>Fascists are our greatest Ally

Prove me wrong.

>>131608493

No, you think you're entitled to the labors of others because you read a utopian fantasy novel by some fat fucking jew in the 1850's and in your deluded mind you think this allows you to tell others how to live. Add on top of that your complete lack of historical information on the applications of communism and you become a parody.

Your autism is off the fucking charts.

>>131608641
>when you get outplayed at every turn throughout the war and lose 17 million more people then even the losing side

>>131608493
Tell me how to do communism, we legalize theft and then we habe communism?
No, you do not want communism you want to remove the rights of the goyim and all smiles and happiness in the world, even with hitlers defeat and the entires worlds cspital and resources the one capital we yave of our will is sufficient to win.

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>>131608076
1920 Russia
Peasants selling body parts at a market

Why need numbers when theres pictures to prove it

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It was one of the worst things to ever happen.

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>>131607626
>what is the Holodomor
That famine alone killed more in only two years then Hilter killed in supposedly five

>also implying that more German soldiers were killed when compared to USSR soldiers

>>131608425
ok so ....... how about the other revolutions like the russian one with lenin and stalin or the chinese one with mao or the korean or the vietnamese or the cuban one. If you say they were under some jewish conspiracy then you are fucked in the head.

>>131608640
I bet you are the type of guy who watches red scare propaganda videos and calls them "proof" against communism.

>>131606760
>Cuba was a failure
>implying it isn't

>Khmer Rogue was a failure
You mean genociding a fourth of your population then getting invaded by Vietnam for fucking with them, then dying of cancer in the woods is a success?

>>131608680
IM guessing you are a NAZBOL?

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>>131608950
I bet you are this type of guy

>>131608950
>when you only argument against somebody is you bet they do something that has nothing to do with the debate at hand

>>131608813
Is british conquest of half the world reficulous?
Why would jewish conquest of russia, cuba, benezuela and communist states be rediculous?

All communists are servants of Jews.

>>131608680
I do hate me some liberals...

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>>131608950
No, communism doesnt work mate

>>131608813
>when you confuse founders of an idea and copiers of it

>>131608691
Listen here lets look at the success of socialism in the USSR for example in just 50 years it went from a backwater shithole to one of the most of not thee most advanced country on earth. in just 50 years they rebuilt the country after the civil war and they turned it into a industrial power house they also gave universal education and made sure everyone in the country was able to go to a hospital they gave gave out right for women gays and the working class. Kid i could do this all day.

>>131609198
Trotsky was a Jew and he conquered Russia, Hernan Cortes was a Spaniard and he conquered Mexico.

>>131607626
>nazi killed more than socialist ever could
>more than socialist ever could

Damn what was the Nazi party again..?

>>131609321
>USSR
>success
>dies for no reason

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Tell uncle Marx I said hi when you go to hell

>>131609112

It's a pretty bad attempt at changing the subject. He doesn't have an actual rebuttal.

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>>131608735
The soviet union destroyed the nazi army even when the soviet unions allies tries to stab them in the back multiple times it was the soviet union which broke the back of the nazi war machine.

>there are "communists' in this thread right now posting on androids and iphones, wearing big brand name clothes, and drinking mega corporation sodas.

>>131607626
>capitalism and nazism have killed more people then socialism ever could.
>capitalism
By the virtue of capitalism actually working and sustaining itself for the past centuries and not devolving into a giant pile of poverty and genocide anytime anyone practices it, yeah, you could say that.

To make an analogy, it would be like saying carbohydrates is as unhealthy as cyanide because carbs has been around for longer.

>nazism
How do you figure that? That was like maybe about a decade of bullshit and then some war and genocide, counting both he holocaust and the deathtoll of the actual warfare the nazis can't even hope to compete with all the bullshit commies got up to in the 20th century.

>>131608760
That picture was taken during the civil war around the same time a famine broke out. Are you even trying?

>>131606760
How the fuck did the USA not win the Cold War

The USSR literally fell into shambles via diplomacy and economics

This is some retarded ass bait.
It's also very much against human nature, it's only the degenerate mongols that want gibs who like the ideology of communism because it benefits them.

>>131607971
>it just works

>>131609343
>nazis
>socialists
>commence nazis and communists REEEEEE'ing at the top of their lungs

>>131609342
Fidel castro was a Jew and he conquered Cuba, Chavez was a Jew and he conquered venezuela, Rosa luxemburg was a Jew and she tried to conquer Germany.

>>131609321

So you're advocating butchering and enslaving millions due to some USSR propaganda?

>>131608809
The holodomor is a fucking myth there was a famine in soviet ukraine but it had nothing to do with the soviet government

>>131609580
Fidel Castro was A Fucking Leaf, actually.

>>131609656
>the holodomor was a myth
Yeah, that was totally a natural famine.

>>131609608
They are servsnts if Jews misled to butcher destabslize and allow the Jewish masters to reign.

>>131609446

The Soviet Union depended on a capitalist country to keep it from collapsing while it sacrificed men like dogs in order to exhaust the resources of the Nazis.

Where the fuck are you getting your history from?

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>>131609656
>country with a great amount of resources for food
>famine was natural bro haha

>>131608967
Pol pot was overthrown by communists he was a right wing nationalist and he got his ass kicked by the communist salvation front. He also got funding from the united states.

While I'm here

If the ussr etc. Wasn't real communism why is it not and what would you commies do differently in order to make a 'real' communist state

>>131609446
>destroyed
>entire nation never recovered
>30 million dead
>lend lease
>d-day
>destroyed Nazi germany

>>131609321
>in just 50 years it went from a backwater shithole to one of the most of not thee most advanced country on earth
Not in an even remotely healthy manner, and also I'd argue it's their imperialism fueling this.

The Soviet Union was FIERCELY imperialistic.

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>>131609757

>>131609758
Implying communist countries can't go to war with other communist countries

>>131609656

>if I deny the truth and substitute it with my false reality I win the debate

Look I can create a magical fairyland where everything I say is good but it doesn't work that way.

>>131609656
>the holodomor was a myth
you truly are beyond hope

>>131609757
The light of justice and truth is on our side, communists dont believe in truth or justice.

>>131609758
>Pol pot was overthrown by communists
Yes.

>he was a right wing nationalist
No he wasn't.

>and he got his ass kicked by the communist salvation front
He got his colon stomped by the Vietnamese (I don't know if they called themselves what you said).

>He also got funding from the united states.
And...?

But all of this makes him and his murdercronies not failures?

>>131609198
Even though communists have put down all religions including jewish ones not to mention communists are against Israel and zionist dogs

>>131609757
this

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>>131609823

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>>131606559

>>131606559
Gay. End of discussion.

>>131609758
>pol pot was right wing
>communist

>>131609321
Hitler was better for his people than Stalin, brought his people out of the gutter in less than ten years. Only to have you commies and the rest of the Western faggot governments tear it down.

>>131609342
Trotsky was barely even a bolshevik and his fellow bolsheviks hated him in fact he was hated so much he was exiled from the country. Then he actually helped the right wing untill he was killed.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8LtQhIQ2AE

>>131609446
>it was the soviet union which broke the back of the nazi war machine
AHAHAHAHA!
Holy FUCK do Vatniks love to pat themselves on the back for that one.

No, what killed the Third Reich was their unbelievable fucking problems with maintaining a functioning economy, on top of having an absolutely DREADFUL grasp on logistics.
The Nazis seriously used HORSES for a significant amount of their transportation, and had a billion substitute standards for everything because they always had shortages of everything.

The German war effort was a monumental clusterfuck that got by on luck in the beginning and it would have deflated like a balloon before the 1950's was over (or even begun), in any realistic scenario, with or without the Soviet Union.
So they basically fought a gigantic war of attrition against something that was going to hemorrhage and die very soon on it's own.

>>131610085
Internal disagreements with who gets to inherit the goyim slaves.

They didnt do this when they were preparing to conquer the goyim.

>>131610061
Dude lets teal all the wealth of the jewish people and then use them as slaves in factories lol

>>131609513
>Implying that communism did not cause the russian civil war
>russIan civil war brought communism as the outcome
>still in denial

>>131609384
It dissolved due to capitalist reforms being put into place and an inter party struggle not to mention the majority of the population voted to keep the USSR.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_referendum,_1991

>>131609823
Didn't Stalin do some shit with the Jews though?

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>>131607550
nt

>>131610085
>when Stalin is seizing power is trying to murder you so you flea the country and modern commies call you not a true commie

>>131609503
Capitalism lives of exploitation and and thanks to capitalism there have been over 100.000.000 plus deaths.

>>131610252
I think you mean the capatlist reforms were a last ditch effort to try and save it from collapsing. If capatlism really made it collapse why has America not collapse but communist countrys always collapse?

>>131610289
stalin was a jew
communism is a jewish made ideology

>>131609608
In 50 years alone the soviet union became a super power. that is the truth

>>131610415
Can you like substantiate that, maybe like describe your rationale for this, maybe give some citations and stuff?

Either way, I'm sure Gommunism would have no trouble catching up to, and running past Capitalism in terms of murder and exploitation if put in the same timeframe and same populations, such is the nature of collectivism.

>>131610555
Yes, through aggressive imperialism.

>>131610415
isn't communism wonderful instead of some people being exploited to live in a small house everybody is exploited to the level of starvation equally

>>131609755
What the fuck to you mean they depended on a capitalist ally the soviet destroyed the nazi army with little to no help from its "allies" if anything it was them who depended on the soviets for help.

>>131609763
Kill more people, of course.

>>131609757
The famine got worse when some fucking kulaks refused to give food to starving people. and its thanks to them that 2.2 million people died the kulaks were lated arrested and killed and they deserved it.

>>131610555
>superpower
>rest of world other then America is shithole or destroyed by war
>you were built up by America
>start crumbling as soon as war ends
>die and everybody is surprised because the believed you the propaganda you really were a superpower

>>131609321

ussr was not a powerhouse they just had nukes.
look what the western countries did in less then 15 years after the war.look what hitler did in less then 10 year.
you are nothing but a vermin. i give you 10 years. start looking for a safe heaven oven dodger.

>>131610674
>with little to no help
>what is the lend lease

>it was them who depended on the soviets for help
How? The Nazis were not exactly very fierce or anything, especially not by the time the Americans got there.

>>131610810
>kulaks did it

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>>131610674

>he doesn't know how much aid the US gave Russia

>>131606559
Anti-Communism is best Communism.

>>131610810
>kulaks
IT WAS DUH SLIGHTLY RICHER WORKING CLASS

broken capitalism > broken communism

>>131609791
27 million soviets died half of them were soldiers and by d-day the nazi war machine was already broke the british and american armies even told the soviet they were waiting for the time when the nazis were the weakest stalin even said our "allies" want to claim the glory even though we did most of the fighting and dying.

>>131610555
Oh, so USSR was real communism after all?

Wtf i love starving to death now

>>131609792
How they were incredibly anti-imperialist that was one of the main doctrines of marxism-leninism.

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>>131611028
Throwing millions of men to die without any regard for their life isn't honorable.

>>131610904
>look what hitler did in less then 10 year
Start some fights and then fuck up the country so bad that half of it became a Russian satellite state?

>>131610949
I think they still find shit that they sent there on occasion.
I remember a picture of a huge stack of M1A1 Thompsons which were sent as military aid back in WW2, which they ended up never using and let sit rust away (which is a smart thing to do with a huge stack of very expensive weapons).

>>131611028
>27 million
>27 million

we beat the Nazis even tho they annihilated us
even when gomunism wins it loses

>>131609843
The salvation front was a communist cambodian rebel group which wanted to end the rightwing government of pol pot.

>>131606559
Hol up i'm gonna let you finish, but that wasn't real communism.

>>131611093
Oh yeah, Poland and Bulgaria just totally signed up to the USSR of their own free will.

>>131611028
>send thousands of undersupplied and unarmed desperate men hopped up on meth to storm Nazi outposts
True heroes

I mean the idea makes sense when you really think about it goys.

>>131611154
>actually trying to divide and conquer when we are attacking a commie

>>131611109
What the picture doesn't show is the giant gulch they're dragging towards.

>>131609869
Holodomor is a fucking lie and anybody who actually reads about it will know that

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TRUE capitalism has never been tried.

>>131611255
I have no allegiance to you or any other socialists, the enemy of my enemy is not my friend.

>>131609892
The salvation front was a cambodian communist rebel group

Che Guevara is one of my personal heros , i have a t shirt of his. Originality is my middle name.

>>131611274
>it's a lie because I said so because I'm smart

is the holocaust a lie?

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>>131611274

>if I allow the truth to come out my ideology completely falls apart

Hehe , stupid workers.

>>131611274
>literally the leftist equivalent of a stormfag holocaust denier
They make a better case than you do, I'll give them that.

>>131610061
Read about stalin and how he helped build the soviet nation and how he helped free its people

>>131611325
And Communists can't fight Communists?

>>131611307
>socialists
>being this naïve

IT HAD DA NAME SOCIALIST SO DEY MUST BE SOCIALIST

I'm sure the communist party in china are true communist too right?

>>131611252
You got me there

>>131610223
Lenin and Stalin even said that people who use being jewish as an excuse should not be given power.

>>131606559
>wants to talk about gibmonism
>posts a pic full of state capitalists

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Whoa.

>>131611431
I'll pass.

>>131611472
>centrally planned economy
>UNITE THE PEOPLE AGAINST [insert nebulous threat of class/race/politicals here]
>extremely collectivist
If it quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck...

>>131609572
The white army during the civil war massacred entire villages for food not to mention they burnet down acres and acres of farmland

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>>131611594

>>131606760
So you're literally walling off your position from any form of argument which tactically destroys it?
You can't just chuck out opposing arguments a priori

So when I'm arguing against you I can't say Communism was a failure? I can't say Communism lead to genocide? I can't say the USA won the cold war? What kind of ridiculous straightjacket do you expect me to put myself in here?

>>131611174

Communists fighting other Communists

>>131610331
He was kicked out of the country he was only killed when he begun to help the right wing also he never truly embraced the bolshevik party even lenin hated him.

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>>131611721

>>131611635
holy fuck you obviously don't know anything bout the nat soc economy

everything was left to free trade as long as it benefited the people as in you cant make junk food, as well as the Government being able to suggest to corporations to over produce or under produce a certain product. The only things the government controlled directly were the banks and media.

>>131611594
The author assumes the process of administration, product selection and sales are free, guaranteed and trivial.

>>131610467
Capitalism and socialism can not work with each other so when the soviet union added capitalist elements the nation begun to collapse

>>131611837
Didn't he live in some small communist collective in Mexico when Stalin had him murdered?

I love it how gommunists push the idea that Stalin turned russia into a fucking powerhouse...they call that a success for socialism..

Fuck you.
Germany was a pile of rubble after 1945, the worst defeat any country has had to suffer in the history of mankind.

And look how their economy flourished under capitalism.
The USSR had such a big head start and they were still overtaken.

Do I need to mention that the russians set up a socialist country in east Germany that was mirroring the soviets, in fact it was doing better than any other socialist country.
How did that country fare compared to the capitalistic version in the west?

Not so well, did it?

And don't you fucking dare mention the "marshal plan".
Fuck that, it did nothing.
Britain and france received more of it and didn't do nearly as well.
The russians had lend lease anyway.

>>131611899
>centrally planned economy
>capitalist
Try again, friend.

>>131611721
M8, if you honestly believe that business owners don't do any work, you're fucking retarded.

These are literally some of the most sought after positions in the world. People who get into them work like fucking maniacs on PCP. Literally pulling 18 hour days, busting their asses through college, all on a whim and a prayer that their business has some hope of success.

>>131611154
no, raising in a bankrupt country,under unreasonable reparations of ww1,the world wide crysis of 29 he's been able to make the germany the first country stepping out of it and raising the head.Seriously just read american newspapers of the time praising the nationalists outcome of nazi policies.

"muh some fight" he started the biggest world mankind ever seen and objectively his country is the one who fought the better.it took the entire Capitalist and Communist world to destroy the German revolution and bring Europe back under the heel of the bankers where it remains to this day.

also the brits newspapers in '36-'37 were worried of the Germany's strenght.

>>131610904
The soviet union produced more then the united states until around the 1980s

>>131611899
>modern day Sweden, Norway Denmark and Germany

>>131611787
Because none of those assertions are true.

>>131606760
Fucking lmao, here's one.

Marx's dialectic was empirically false and society is not moving towards a classless stateless society. It is moving towards ultracapitalism, a society of hyperinvestment in an energy and heat based economy. That is the inevitable future of our civilization.

>>131611188
yeah they did poland had the polish peoples army and bulgaria had the fatherland front

>>131607754

> Kid just read a fucking book.

Ok.

*reads mein kampf*

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>>131612085
Ok, when you say ridiculous shit that flies totally contrary to all mainstream opinion, you better have a source to back yourself up.
You can't just say shit like that and expect anyone to take you seriously

>>131611354
the holocaust happend

>>131612085
I believe what ever communist propaganda tells me is true

This is why everybody was in shock when the soviet union collapse they actually thought it was a superpower instead of just a rustbucket with nukes

>>131611787
Commie tactics, my scurvy-riddled friend. Step one is to apply the "no true scotsman" rule.

>>131612150
You saying they aren't true proves they aren't true? The USA objectively won the cold war dumbass. Everywhere communism is tried, it results in massive piles of bodies. People run from communist countries for escape to free countries. That's why communist countries build walls, to keep their own people in

>>131612319
BUT HOLODOMOR DIDENT
AHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

>>131611456
you dont understand when the khmer rouge took power pol pot started a coup and installed a right wing agrarian government

>>131611837
just making shit up now I see

>>131612422
>when I don't like somebody there always right wing

funny how ultra capitalist call every body communist leftist who isn't a capitalist

>>131612319

Stop using the term holocaust. It is extremely disrespectful to pagans.
A holocaust is a sacred ritual.

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>>131612422
Is forced collectivized farming part of the right wing program?

>>131612035
>he started the biggest world mankind ever seen and objectively his country is the one who fought the better.it took the entire Capitalist and Communist world to destroy the German revolution
Yeah ok, keep regurgitating all that old Goebbels shit.

What about the chronic shortage of fuel?
What about the chronic shortage of ammunition?
What about the chronic shortage of metals?
What about the chronic shortage of manpower?
What about the chronic shortage of standardized vehicles and equipment?
What about the chronic shortage of fucking everything they needed?

They dragged it out for an impressive amount of time all things considered, but they really weren't efficient at all, if anything, it was most of the people they fought not being very efficient either allowing them much success. That shit eventually caught up with them.

>>131612093
I would argue that socialism has horribly crippled Sweden actually, we're heading for a deathdive very soon.

>>131612225
>if I start/support partisans and militias in this country to fuck it up, that means everyone was in on it
So what about when Stalin murdered all of those people who fought against the Nazis?

>>131612093
those are capitalist states with socialist elements the late soviet union was trying to do the reverse.

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>>131612237

>>131612422
How is systematically murdering everyone who is useful and forcing everyone to be a farmer at gunpoint a right wing program?

>>131612687
They were actually going the other way and trying to go more free market. If communism was so perfect why would they abandon it?

>>131612355
Ok show were capitalism works with millions died people exploited wars and over shit

>>131612767
cia and the kremlin both disagree with you

>>131612767
That's not a source faggot. That's a graph you pulled of a left wing website. Your 6 year old adopted genderqueer nigerian child probably drew that

>>131612437
DO you want me to bring in quotes and proof

>>131612862
Who says I'm in favor of capitalism? Is that the only thing you know how to argue against?

And in any case, the free societies of the west are literally the greatest on earth. Millions of people were fleeing from the USSR to reach the West. That's why they built the Berlin wall.

It's not a coincidence that Eastern Europe is right wing as fuck these days. It's because they suffered brutally under left wing authoritarianism for decades

>>131612681
It's going to a nose dive because of you bringing in millions of who don't work coloreds, if you honestly think allowing free basic healthcare or some forms of welfare is "communist" and will ruin an economy you have no real understand of economics

>>131612767
>chart without citations

>>131612681
That's because Germany had few resources to work with. Unfortunately, the system they had to play ball with to trade for those resources, was also manipulating their currency to near worthlessness. Enter Hitler. He dared to defy the international banks, and so, the banks sent the world to crush them, same as WW1.

>>131612809
By the 80s the soviet government was split on how to fix the economic problem in the country one side was the hardliners and the other was the reformers the reformers won and they ruined the soviet union.

>>131612984
The problem is a shortage of jobs, and a shortage of housing, then bringing in about a million refugees to have no jobs or housing and live on welfare.

Only a socialist system would do such a thing.

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these generals are the reason i get up in the morning

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>>131613114
>>131612767
I'm never going to let you left wing faggots forget this

>>131613054
>and so, the banks sent the world to crush them
Yeah, that shit about Czechoslovakia and Poland was all justified and shit.

>inb4 muh opressed germans etc etc

How will you get rid of money in your communist utopia?

>>131612984
a communist state can only be realized when the world is socialist and the Ussr was socialist state through goal was communism.

>>131613311
So let me get this straight
Communism is so fucking weak and pathetic, that it can't compete on the international stage. That's why it will only work when the entire world adopts it simultaneously, so there can be no competitors.

Despite the fact that every single time this system has been tried, we've been left with a mountain of bodies. We should just try it on the entire world? Put all our eggs in the basket of an ideology that has been more thoroughly discredited than any other in all of history?

>>131613311
Wow, that's a more farfetched dream than Ancapistan.

>>131613138
>only a socialist system would do that

are you kidding capitalist society actively needs immigration to expand the economy
American brings in 1 million people from the 3rd world ever year, they've been doing it for decades.

The problem is they are colored. You expect a monkey to be able to drive a car? Those country's had the best stranded of living in the world until the arrival of the colored's.

It's a race problem not an economic.
you capitalist like to value the economy more then the people themselves

>>131613245
Communists only use money as a way to exchange thing we hope that when the world is communist people would have used money less and less and eventually it becomes useless

>>131613311
>communism will only work when the whole world magically accepts it

>>131613472
Wow, literally 0 economists support your retarded idea. An idea which gets regularly shat on by Nobel Prize winning geniuses and the entire global academic establishment

>>131613472
>use money to exchange things
Welcome to econ 101, what steps will the communist utopia take to make the society money less

>>131613472
>we hope people will be nice because they are nice

that's a fantasy kid the world will never be perfect

>>131613449
>The problem is they are colored
Y'know there was already a serious shortage of jobs before mass immigration, right? Then you take in a bunch of people and give them welfare.

Meaning, you're paying money to take in people who are unable to be a part of the economy no matter how much they want to and how much they are capable.

This would be a problem with any ethnicity, this is basic economy.
Americans take in immigrants because there are jobs for them to do. Even an illegal Mexican can find a job in America (usually a shitty one, but still).

>>131613638
Unlike capitalism which money is used to buy a commodity in the ussr it was was only for exchange money was almost useless in the USSR.

I'm out

It's literally 1 incorrigable communist faggot here spreading his cancer. Everyone should stop giving him bumps. He's probably some short little mixed race manlet raised by a single mother with severe mental issues

>>131613857
So you give up? thats expected from a brainless child.

>>131613829
>money was almost useless in the USSR
1) That's not a fucking good thing.
2) Weren't you arguing about the glory of the Soviet Imperium just now?

>>131613934
Well, Communists never know when to quit, so no surprises there.

>>131613829
Their currency was internationally traded faggot how was it any different than a capitalist country

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Every. Fucking. Post. Every single post here is retarded. Literally, everything you said in the title is CORRECT. WHEN YOU HAVE TO TAKE OVER A WEAK, AND LIKE 3 MONTH POST REVOLUTION GOVERNMENT TO TAKE CONTROL, YOU'RE PROBABLY DOING IT WRONG

Hello commies my old friends. Lets split up poland again

>>131613234
Poland just got a new leader, and that leader was being pressured into war with Germany. Then they used it as an excuse to invade Germany, but France pussied out, and ran back across the border.

>>131613965
if you understand marxist economics then you would get what i am trying to say. do i have to spoon feed you everything?

>>131614086
>do i have to spoon feed you everything
Please do, it would be very interesting to see your logic laid out.

>>131614069
>and that leader was being pressured into war with Germany
>implying that shit wasn't a bunch of false flags

>>131614032
within the country money was supposed to be a transitional period until communism was achieved however the money was internationally traded.

>>131613747
>shortage of jobs
that's why you have some forms of welfare for people to stay alive until you get the country in shape, and guess what that works for civilized whites. Do you know who it doesn't work for?
niggers, arabs and spics, they are lazy and will suck off you. Again this is why it had the best stranded of living before they turned up, it works with whites, it doesn't work with lazy niggers who don't even have the brain capacity to submit a job application. It's a race problem

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>>Hurr Durr Russia wasn't reaaaal communism, If I was the leader of that country it would be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG8hAULqUOw
Get educated son, "The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn’t construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn’t revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty you’re talking about, the only cases in recorded history, are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade."

>>131614226
They literally had gold currency, as usual commies don't know jack shit about the ideology they support

>in this thread
>not posting as natbol
How's it feel to be pleb tier?

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>>131614224
Why would Germany willingly walk, into an otherwise avoidable war, if they had a severe shortage of munitions?

>>131614182
lets first break down the labour theory of value.
Exchange values were a serious puzzle for many early economic thinkers. If a horse cart traded for 20 ounces of gold but a pair of shoes only traded for 2 ounces, what made the horse cart 10 times as valuable as the shoes? The answer, according to the labor theory, is the horse cart took 10 times as much average labor to produce as the shoes.
Advocates of the labor theory believed that if two goods are exchanged for the same price, they must therefore have the same value. Value was determined by inputs, chiefly labor. The theory could not explain, among other things, profits, losses and land values.

Now for Labor Theory and Marxism
The labor theory of value interlaced nearly every aspect of the Marxian analysis. Marx's pinnacle economic work, “Das Kapital,” was almost entirely predicated on the tension between capitalist owners of the means of production and the labor power of the working class.

Marx was drawn to the labor theory because he believed human labor was the only common characteristic shared by all goods and services exchanged on the market. For Marx, however, it was not enough for two goods to have an equivalent amount of labor; instead, the two goods must have the same amount of “socially necessary” labor.

Marx used the labor theory to launch a devastating critique against free market classical economists in the tradition of Adam Smith. If, he asked, all goods and services in a capitalist system are sold at prices that reflect their true value, and all values are measured in labor hours, how and why can capitalists ever enjoy profits unless they pay their workers less than the real value of their labor?

It was on this basis that Marx developed the exploitation theory of capitalism. The classical economists had no answer until the Subjectivist Revolution. This will keep going if you want me too.

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>>131614470
>>Severe shortage of munitions
Germany had been arming for months.

>>131614335
they had a gold currency and..........? i think you need to pick up a book on marxian economics.

>>131606559
A faggot debate.
Bye.

>>131614631
Still you support an Ideology that deals in currency while demonize an ideology that had labor based currency, bravo
>>131614776
So you are trying to say soviets had commodity based currency like every capitalist country, it's like you don't understand how currency works

>>131614182
ALSO there are multiple schools of marxist theory so ill try to explain the most basic of its forms

>>131614738
And they blew it faster then they could make it.

>>131614470
Because their expenditure caught up with their actually kind of meager production (which became more meager as time went).

The entire German war effort is full of "Oh fuck, I should have thought about that!" and "What do you mean the numbers don't add up?"

>>131614631
>nobody cares about your "true value" people pay for an item if they want it or don't want it basing it on it's demand (and supply) It goes up or down in price

>>131606559
Sage

>>131614738
Still had barely enough ammo for Poland alone. Sent in with 6 weeks worth of ammo, and just barely pulled it off. I'd post the infographic, but I don't have it on my phone.

>>131614911
Basically Soviet Union had the same monetary system as the rest of the world.
The only great difference I can think of is that there were two types of money: cash (for individuals) and cashless ('beznal') for government-controlled factories/industries/etc. For some time Soviet rouble existed as two separate entities Since for most cases there were no means of legally convert that beznal into cash.

>>131615060
Topkek, you were telling me how they were different from the capitalist country, typical commie scum

Read this might help you

http://aryanism.net/politics/national-socialism-basics/

>>131614932
if you were to read das kapital then you would realize that the world doesn't work the way you think it does.

>>131615289
hahahahahahahahahahha what a joke hahahahahahahahahahaah!

>>131606559
>Patriarchy is bad
>Look at these noble fathers of communism

Communists crack me up

>>131615713
Long live the great works of Marx Engels Lenin and Stalin!

>>131606559
How does communism get around the Economic Calculation problem?

>>131615846
Firms manage to have central planning and they don't struggle with the "calculation problem" in fact the centrally planned capitalist firm is about the strongest argument you could have in favour of central planning.
Take for example Eddie Lampert, a libertarian, Ayn Rand loving CEO who took over Sears. Citing the Economic Calculation Problem, he broke up the centrally planned top-down model that Sears operated and broke up the firm into lots of competing sub-divisions, with the firm belief that this would lead to greater incentives and efficiency.
The result? Sears was driven into the ground and has struggled to recover for their experiment with ridiculous economic dogma like this. Actually Existing Capitalism doesn't really care if it's centrally planned or not as long as capital accumulates and the rate of return is good they're happy, they couldn't give a shit about Ayn Rand they care about making money.

>>131610810
>MUH KULAKS

>>131616095
It's true

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>>131616195
>>131614402

Hey.

l'm a pozcuck. You want to know what that is? Listen closely.

The normal cuckold wants just one gift from his black bull: a black child. But the pozzed cuckold wants more. He wants three gifts. We are greedy little bitches. But first, here's how it goes.

Normally I drive in my Mercedes to a street gym where ripped blacks train their muscles, their skin shining with sweat and the air filled with their scent. I am already a bit hard just from thinking about it. Sometimes I cum a bit in my pants. I get out of the car and ask who of them has AIDS. Then they know what happens.

The black man with AIDS gets into my car and we drive to somewhere isolated. Then I take a small knife and stick it inside the hole of my penis and twist it a litte. In the cuckold community we call this the HIV Twister. Sure it hurts and causes me to bleed. But it is worth it.

Then the black man docks me until we both cum and I contract his AIDS. I already have 4 types of AIDS from this. That is the first gift. Then we drive on to my house and he fucks my wife (a beard), who has also contracted many types of AIDS. That is the second gift. And then 9 months later the third and best gift arrives: a black child who also has AIDS.

>>131616650
why?

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>>131616784
>not getting the gift of being pozzed charged with toxic seed

>>131616972
What the fuck does this have to do with communism?

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Stupid commies

You have caused so much human suffering

FUCK OFF!!!!

NEVER AGAIN

>>131616650
Whoa, that's literally the most retarded shit I've heard in a very very long time. You know what gets me hard? seeing people die on film. Tell you what, you film your self committing suicide and send it to me so I can take your wife after.

>>131617053
Long live the great international Communist idea!

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>>131606760
>if you use any of the arguments that prove me wrong then you're dumb

>>131617182
That guy is fucking retarded

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>>131617142
I knew you are pure evil

>>131617275
I knew you were a brainwashed cuck

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>>131617306
Brainwashed?

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>>131617413
I am going to tell you the truth and the truth is that Communism is the future

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>>131617053
>SMASH THE STATE
>SMASH CAPITALISM
>EAT THE RICH
brought to you by KFC
>>131617132
>t.newfag
>>131617020
Absolutely everything plebbit.

>>131617609
Are you going to contribute anything meaningful here?

Hurr sure, communism is a good idea durrrr

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When commies repeat the argument 'communism has never been tried' I'm always inclined to agree with them. They're completely right that the original idea of communism has never been tried. Of course, that is because communism is such a fundamentally brain-dead ideology that it can NEVER be implemented.
Bezmenov rightly talks about the 'useful idiots' who will talk about the virtues of communism, who are all the while willingly blind to reality. Their ideology simply CANNOT be implemented, it will always be used by despots to seize power, idiots will follow behind because communist policies 'sound nice'. Of course these people are always the ones who will be shot first.
So why can't communism be implemented? At its simplest Communism requires: No state, with people voluntarily helping each other at no benefit to themselves. Sounds nice, now lets apply this on a mass scale and things become more difficult. Now lets play out a scenario. The revolution has come and a farmers produce is required for the population, the revolutionaries arrive and say to the farmer 'greetings comrade, we need your produce to feed the masses, we will take it now' and the farmer says 'no, I gain nothing from simply giving you my produce, I would need at minimum a return on my investment to make this venture worthwhile'. At this point the revolutionaries have two options, they can pay the farmer for his produce, and thus communism has failed. Or they can shoot the farmer and take his produce, effectively creating a new state, at which point communism has also failed.
Communists are often open about the fact that a good round of shootings will have to occur in order for their new system to come about, and I can respect their honesty. Even if they are so utterly retarded as to believe that they won't be the ones getting shot.

>>131617989
Communism is the future and we should all strive toward it

>>131617693
I will
there is no proof of surplus "theft"

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>>131618127
Well first communism has never been tried because it can only be achieved if the whole world is socialist so until them the goal of all communists is to establish a full fledged socialist led by the communist party.

>>131618239
There is proof all over the world could you provide an example?

>>131618319
you mean its never been accomplished
its certainly been tried

>>131618426
a business fails
why is there not a single communist advocating the workers to give all that surplus back to the boss
>because surplus "theft" does not exist

>>131618440
like i said the goal of communists is to establish a transitionary state and that state is socialism. because the only way to get to communism is though socialism. I could elaborate more if you want.

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>>131618127
Cont.
After this revolution has failed, communists of the future will then claim that 'this wasn't real communism'. Again, technically they're right, communism would require 'the workers to own the means of production'. This is, without a doubt, one of the most fundamentally meaningless statements ever. And this is played always to the communists advantage. There are so many ways that this phrase could be interpreted that any failed communist state simply didn't involve the workers owning the means of production. Thus the communism has never been tried argument can be repeated for ever. Communism is a goldmine of an ideology if you want to seize power from idealistic morons.
Further. Marxist economics assumes that scarcity is no longer a problem to be considered. Fundamentally we of course know this is false, but in order for communist ideology to make sense in the mind, we must assume that there is an abundance of everything and that this abundance is being kept from the workers. Now that scarcity is no longer an issue prices can be fixed to an appropriate level for the populace. Of course, all this does is creates surplus demand as the supply falls. From this we start to see the classic Soviet breadlines. People forced to wait for what in other societies they can get on demand. People begin to starve, but it doesn't matter to the communist because internally, their ideology still makes sense to them.

>>131618523
Because the boss has failed his objective and he already has the worker under wage slavery so the workers are not entitled to owe him anything.

>>131618551
it is all based upon the idea that getting paid exactly the amount you get paid is SECRETLY theft using magical time travel math

>>131618620
i replied already

>>131618721
you cant call it wage slavery without FIRST proving the so called surplus "theft" which you have not done
you are attempting to railroad others into accepting your moral claims. where then are you deriving your morality?

>>131618802
Yeah and it avoided everything I said.

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>>131618319
>communism can only be achieved when everyone believe exactly the same thing
Do you see how out of touch with reality you are?

>>131618757
No the worker is underpaid and even though his work keeps the country going it's he who gets abused its he who gets taxed its he who even though he works hard gets barley enough to get by. Not to mention the means of production which belong to the workers are in fact owned by a rich asshole who continues to work the workers raw to achieve capital.

>>131618990
>the worker is underpaid
Agreed
>so I'm going to introduce a system that will pay him even less and then starve him to death
Nicely done
> the means of production which belong to the workers are in fact owned by a rich asshole
There's that meaningless phrase again.

>>131618936
The goal of the communist party is to be the vanguard of revolution and once the revolution has been successful then they build the socialist state. Its not rocket science and just saying IDPOL and SJWs need to be gulaged.

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>>131619208
You've lost me, so the goal of communism is now to never be in power and to be the vanguard for building a state? That's against the the fundamental idea that communism is stateless. Even then, you've avoided my point.

>>131619126
the socialist state would give the worker a house an education universal healthcare and a job. Also the worker would be entitled to his rights and he would get a salary even though money is just a transitional period in a socialist state.

>>131619397
>the socialist state
Again, so it's not communism. And in fact in your attempt to create a system to destroy the state you've made an even larger state that before. Your policies all sound very nice, but they don't sound like the real world.

>>131619392
Okay let me try to rephrase that to achieve communism you will need worldwide socialism so when communists come to power in a country the first thing they will do is that they will establish a socialist state.

>>131619572
Right, so now how do you go from having created a large state that controls everything to removing it completely?

>>131619567
The USSR especially during the 50s/60s was a good example of state socialism Cuba is another good example Grenada was another good example.

>>131619641
SO lets say the world is socialist now so now we begin to remove national borders speed up the end of transitional money try to establish a unified world government and once this has been achieved we would then slowly establish pure communism as marx envisioned.

>>131619888
Checked. It seems all of this is very idealistic. It relies a lot on hoping that things will work out well. You've got to hope that despots won't rise to power, and you've got to hope that supply really is abundant, you've got to hope that someone in charge of a world government doesn't declare themselves dictator for life.
I don't want to be 'that guy' but human nature seems to be at odds with a lot of communist ideology.

>>131619888
>world is socialist
>remove national borders
>end of transitional money
>unified world government

You ideology is flawed because for it to succeed,it needs every single person believing in it and not going against it. Thats never going to happen unless,as we've seen in the past,the millions who disagree die.

>>131620238
Well just look at some of the examples from history the USSR especially during the 50s/60s was a good example of state socialism Cuba is another good example Grenada was another good example. And to become leader of a socialist country you have to be elected thats way socialist nations have parliaments and
congresses also the communist party has something called democratic centralism which ensures democracy in the communist party.

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threadly reminder that communism is a fairy tail for children

>>131606760
>commie education

>>131620404
its not our fault that the bourgeoisie wanting to keep unto power start wars wit us and also the argument that "millions" died under communism is incorrect.

>>131620618
some retard said that

>>131618127
Saved, thanks for the lovely fresh pasta

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>>131606559

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Communism will guide us!

>>131620664
You're retarded if you think that makes sense. "The bourgeoisie" don't act as a group you fucking imbecile