Taxation is theft

it's the price we pay to be part of our societies. we are free to leave.

why are you still here then if you're not okay with it?

Taxes should be optional. But if you don't pay taxes you shouldn't be allowed to:

1. Have police come to your aid
2. Have the fire department come to your property if it is on fire
3. Use public roads or have a driver's license
etc.

>>131601401
It depends.

Income tax is not theft for example. The government is clearly stating that it owns you and the product of your work, so it is more like slavery.

>>131601401
>taxes are theft
I disagree.

>taxing my paycheck to pay for personal and corporate welfare instead of SBA loans, roads, education, and healthcare instead of health insurance like we used to is theft

agreed.

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>>131602056
>>131602065
>>131602156

What is the most fair tax? Pls no Huckabee, but is it a land tax (only on the undeveloped value of the land since you don't have any capital invested in what nature created) or a sales tax?

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>>131601401
whatever the state decrees is legal

refute that

>pro-tip: OP is a fag and he can't

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>>131603049
>fair
>tax
this does not add up

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>>131603177
>the state decrees
how do boots taste you beta male loser faggot pos bitch ass nigga

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>>131601401
It's more like extortion

>>131601401
theft is unlawful taking
taxes are a law

therefore, taxation can not be theft

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>>131601401

>>131601401
I would happily pay small taxes given they fit thd qualifications I deem fitting. But they dont.

>>131603281
how does reality taste you high ass nigga bitch on crack

>>131603177
>legal=just

Taxation without representation is theft. Fixed that for you op

>>131603284
>he thinks people can just make law

>>131602193
I never consented to having my money taken away from me to feed niggers. Statists are the ultimate cucks.

>>131601401
Today's American taxes are theft. 95% of your taxes are going into things that are directly against your interests.

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>>131603364
>le metaphysical
who gives a fuck?

>>131601556
>we are free to leave
where?

>>131601401
For every 100,000 people who say "taxation is theft," maybe one of them actually tries to live off the grid (away from taxes and the things that taxes fund). Who's holding you here? You're like the niggers who say that American society is oppressive and structurally racist but couldn't even be dragged out of the country.

Get the fuck out. How is your decision to stay not consent to the terms?

>>131603281
Says the guy who stays here and pays his taxes every year and follows the laws like a good goyim cattle. Who the fuck are you kidding?

>>131604082
>>131604220
See
>>131603715
What do you expect us to do?

>>131604390
Go into the wilderness and build a fucking cabin. There you won't have to be bothered with nuisances like roads and bridges, and plumbing, and school.

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>>131604499
>Go into the wilderness

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>>131603284
>there are no unlawful and unjust laws
ok redcoat

>>131604727
Ohhhh wait... you mean that you want all the shit taxes paid for. You just don't want to pay for them? What is theft again?

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>>131603369
would you say you feel well represented?

>>131604727
seriously go to alaska, you can literally not pay taxes there.

>>131601556
>implying the government owns the society

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>>131604499
>go into wilderness
>live off grid
>gov comes and shoots you for not paying taxes and squatting on its land

>>131601984
Underrated post.

>>131604819
It should be maintained by the local communities voluntarily on the basis of mutual aid.

>>131601799
Wouldn't an opt in option make more sense? All you have to do is itemize taxes, the programs people want will get funded and the programs people don't want won't get funded. Services will depend on to what extent people voted with their dollars. This way we don't have to struggle with debt either.

>>131605001
>Live in ancap, short-bus utopia.
>Live in wild-west anarchy.
>China comes with it's professional army and shoots you for living where it wants to drill for oil.

>>131601401
it isn't in homogenous societies/ethnostates. everywhere else your statement is 100% true

>>131605144
Wish in one hand. Shit in the other. See which one fills first.

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>>131601401
There are multiple ways to look at theft as a concept. As far as legality goes theft is defined by the state so in that context it is not theft at all. Looking at the exact definitions it is more extortion than theft, but then under the same scope it's also theft for you to live and work in a country without paying the appropriate taxes. Morally speaking, if you so hardily disagree with something you have every right to petition, protest, and otherwise organise some way of making your dissatisfaction known in order to change what you disagree with, and tax avoidance isn't exactly difficult or uncommon nowadays, and if you refuse to do so and just participate anyway then you lose the moral high ground in criticising it. You also have the option to move to a country without such taxes, and feel free to come back and tell us how well that works out for you.

>>131601799
Way too complicated. What if you need the police in a hurry, would they ask for your SSN to verify you pay taxes? Would they wait to verify it before dispatching police? Would they dispatch the police right away and fine you if you haven't paid taxes? Would they check your ID after aiding you to ensure you really are the person who claimed on the 911 call to be a taxpayer? Same questions for fire department.

It's the whole reason why illegals and poors are fucking up our healthcare. They just show up at the ER and it's illegal not to help them.

The best you can hope for is a small government that only provides core functions for a minimal tax rate, but even then you have problems where nobody agrees on what the core functions should be limited to, so it ends up expanding over time and you get the bloated mess of government and exorbitant tax rates we have now.

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>>131605240
>use our libertarian made nukes (voluntarily produced nukes)
>nuke beijing
>chinks go back and become an-cap after seeing the error in their ways
>peace and harmony forever, mutually beneficial cooperation rules the lands of men

>>131601799
Literally no one would use government services, because they would be driven out of business by their superior private counterparts. An opt-in opt-out system wouldn't even last that long. kek

>>131605214
So basically Walmart and Facebook will control all the programs since they have the most money and the rest of us will be cucks to them.

>>131605513
Exactly. I'm pretty sure this has happened in communities where there are private fire departments/jails.

>>131605686
Yea, 9 competing sets of power-lines that need to be newly installed throughout the country, 7 competing sets of railroad tracks, 5 competing sets of subway tunnels, 15 competing private armies, etc, etc. Sounds like it would work great.

>>131605915
If they want to fund the programs whats the problem? You'll still have the whole legislative system with elected representatives, this will just determine what gets the money it needs in the end.

>>131606011
Not that I defend everything to be private, but I'm pretty sure everything you named in a sense in privatized and the government just contracts it to the private companies, no?

>>131605915
I mean they already do most of the funding, it's how a progressive tax scale works.

>>131606156
Maybe I'm misunderstand your argument. I understood that people only fund what they want in terms of services. E.g. Walmart and Facebook want more money into subsidy programs and military so they get funded the most, while let's say you and me want more money into education but since we don't have much money, education cannot be well funded whatsoever.

>>131606176
In some of those cases, yeah.

>>131601401
rand, it's 2am where you are, why are you up shitposting on /pol/

>>131602156
kek, i have this pasta saved from back when it was first posted
>>131602193
i never consented to having redundant redditwitter text being forced onto memes like some kind of degenerated form of watermarking though

>>131605513
>What if you need the police in a hurry

in what case would you "need the police" where you could not just solve the problem yourself with a healthy application of the 2nd Amendment?

>>131606317
>E.g. Walmart and Facebook want more money into subsidy programs and military
I don't believe a company would pay to subsidize itself or another company. Subsidies would most likely end under this system because no one wants to voluntarily subsidize a company.
>hile let's say you and me want more money into education but since we don't have much money, education cannot be well funded whatsoever.
Education is a better example for this. Education would be funded exactly as much as the people in the country want it to. Most employers want educated workers though, and most do gooders would make that a number one priority. If it doesn't get funded then it means there something wrong with the program and the private market will become much more competitive.

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>>131601401
Without taxes there would be no government. Without government you would have no law. Without law business cannot be conducted because promises cannot be kept.

You can try to argue for an ad-hoc type of government where people voluntarily follow a collective law, but the government does a lot more than protecting common decency. Most importantly of these functions is the control of printing money so businesses cannot lie about their worth. Second is an army, which noone would voluntarily pay for because it is really fucking expensive and paying for it doesn't directly effect their lives. Without an army you'd just be overrun and be forced to pay taxes of your new forced upon owner or you will die and have your land/assets taken from you regardless.

It should be noted however that government will lead to incompetence and thorough corruption due to the promise of extortion and guaranteed pay. The U.S.A. theory to prevent this was to arm all of its citizens freely so the extortion would be weakened considerably.

>>131604819
fuckin kek
These ancap losers are the yin to the far left's yang

>>131604954
the society elects and in principle employs the government

>>131603177
Even if you consider the state illegitimate, it still would not be "theft", it would be extortion. You cannot just change the definition of words. Theft is surreptitious, a thief is not using force or coercion but stealth.
If you consider the state illegitimate on principle you are an edgy immature faggot. All states contain corruption to some degree, but the concept of a system of law regulating hierarchy and a system of obligations is a necessary part of human society.

>>131607033
>Without government you would have no law

not true and business would be just fine. If you fail to keep a promise there are still going to be consequences

>>131606011
Yes better.

>>131606766
> a healthy application of the 2nd Amendment?
When you are outgunned. Your "system" would immediately lead to an arms race, where the meanest, most ruthless and best-armed gang would get to dominate everyone else. In other words warlordism, i.e. autocratic statelets ruled by mean bastards. How anyone would think this is an improvement is beyond me.

>>131601401

Here is what is theft:

Workers go to work every day and have their surplus labor time expropriated by heirs who don't work. The heirs call this "profit".

That is the real theft.

The heirs got together in 1787 (after Shay's rebellion) and formed a government, which taxes us to pay for an army and FBI and courts and federal officers and jails and such which enforce this theft.

That is never complained about, it is "necessary".

Also Rand Paul is a fucking phony, because he wants government laws (right to work laws) that forbid unions and companies from freely coming into contracts together. He wants the government to get involved to fight organized labor. A fucking parasite.

Taxes have always been apart of great civilizations. The people who say this are infantile savages and usually low IQ.

>>131601401
> refute this statment
> pro tip: you cant
> roads

>>131601401
Taxation is the sole means by which the government can remove excess money from the financial system. NOT theft.
Prove that money is your property, not the government's.

>>131601401
You already knew taxes were part of the deal for making money and participating in society. It's like whining that a casino has a house edge baked into their games.

>>131609737
wrong, government can exist on tariffs alone

You guys are such cucks for the government taking your money. Do you guys realize where all your tax dollars are really going?

>muh roads

With the amount of tax revenue the US generates, you guys should have free healthcare and free tuition to universities.

No, I don't mean hiking up taxes in a health care bill, I mean currently. We should ALREADY have free healthcare. But no, we're too busy destroying all of Israel's enemies.

>>131601556
So we should pay 100% tax then?

>>131604819
Do you think there is unclaimed land you can just plop yourself on and build a cabin on?

>>131611084
The survival of the government is not the question. The question is how a government can fulfill its duties as a sovereign currency issuer to remove excess money from the system and control inflation.
"The Congress shall have Power To...coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin...."
CONSTI-MOTHERFUCKING-TUTIONAL DUTY, larpnigger.

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>>131613469
> excess money from the system

>>131601401
I agree but, that doesn't mean states shouldn't be able to determine wether they have manditory or voluntary taxation because as you probably know, states technically have rights.

Taxation is a necessary evil based upon coercion but also the most efficient means yet devised of funding governmental works. Every society since there ever were societies has required some means of funding its projects, a general tax levy is the best idea we've evolved to do this. If you have a better way (in b4 muh voluntary society) by all means.

>>131613657
Are you denying the existence of inflation as a concept, here?

>>131603715
Nobody's keeping you here. KYS.

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>>131614716
you say that we need to leave, but perhaps it is you that we need to eliminate in order to open our society of free men. really makes you think

>>131613205
that isn't the agreed upon variable amount