CUT MY LIFE INTO PIECES http://archive.is/1c1MZ

Anyone that takes a college economics class and some common sense can see how it seems like a good idea but will ultimately inflate the prices of shit.

>>131594795
So basically like every other liberal policy; it sounds good on paper because they're devised by people who study everything based on models predicting how everything would ideally work, not realizing that life is a giant imperfect mess, nothing ever goes according to plan, and you can't truly prepare for anything.

What an unpredictable outcome! Don't let the liberals forget this, because they will completely ignore it.

>>131594795
What a massive surprise.

They recently raised minimum wage to $10 here in Arizona and I've talked to multiple minwage plebs that think its a good thing for them.

The real scary thought is realizing that these measures only pass because such a fuckload of people are working for minimum wage or are stupid enough to think raising it helps anyone at all.

>>131595403
>>131595328
>>131595199
>>131594974
my favorite part was the wapo faggots using quotes for 'very credible'. Like they don't stomach the evidence right in front of them

>>131595403
No its good since they will work you less hours and you get the same pay as you originally did at 8 an hour 40 hours a week.

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>>131595820

>>131595820
Lets play spot the berg.

>Benefits
>Healthcare
>Cut my hours into pieces
>GG an hero now.

>>131595199
Yeah pretty much but I'm still glad that someone tried since we can't really argue one way or the other without some solid concrete evidence

>>131596092
Min wage jobs dont have benefits or healthcare maybe dental. As long as you are employed a higher min wage is a good thing.

>>131594795
Is it too late to not get replaced by robots and continue getting the same pay?

>>131596298
except the part where they tried that, and it actually made things worse

>>131594974
Not quite.

http://www.epi.org/publication/the-high-road-seattle-labor-market-and-the-effects-of-the-minimum-wage-increase-data-limitations-and-methodological-problems-bias-new-analysis-of-seattles-minimum-wage-incr/

The study has quite a few flaws. I think it has more merit than this EPI review gives it, but the jury is still out - it is wildly inconsistent with a lot of past research on minimum wage increases.

>>131594974
Eh, in the field of economic thought there has been a lot of back and forth over what minimum wages do.

The ''general'' consensus though is that minimum wage is best done on a per industry basis rather than on a geographical basis because different industries have to deal with different realities of production. Low margin businesses tend to need a lot of cheap labor and end up getting badly hurt by minimum wage, leading to market consolidation which ultimately raises prices more than the increased cost of labor does.

While the minimum wage is a good idea, I think Seattle pushed it way too far. It's also not possible to effectively raise the minimum wage and produce the intended results in only one locality. Minimum wage increases CAN only work when it's applied nationally.

>>131596601
High minimum wage only benefits large companies with some ability to out-attrition competitors
Supporters include losers at life and Goldberg

>>131596496
What flaws?

>>131594795
>"very credible"
I can't tell if they're trying to be sarcastic leftist cunts or not

>>131594974
>everybody competitive enough to keep their jobs suddenly has the same increase in bidding power for rental property and homes
>over time all property across the city maxes out this new income floor
>anyone working for under-the-table cash is pushed out of the city

I can't really figure out if I like it or not. On one hand it pushes the non-competitive out of big cities, on the other hand, if I were participating, I don't really want a property tax or rent hike in order to give the middle finger to people by force and transfer a bunch of monetary power to the city government in the process.

>>131597236
>wapo
you know they are

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They should pay doctors $15 an hour so they can have affordable healthcare too!

>>131594795
CRAWWWWLING IN MY SKIIIINNNNNN

>>131594795

Sharia Blue is going to start shilling this thread in 3... 2...

>>131596298
They were supposed to due to the ACA. But as with all liberal things, it made things worse instead of making things better.

Hours were cut to deny healthcare to minimum wage workers, and they are being cut even more or people are being fired to balance the books on hikes.

What we need is for the government to actually fight for the people instead of cucking down to corps that only care about their bottom line.

Raising min wage and trying to force healthcare down their throats has done the exact opposite of its intended purpose to help the poor.

What the fuck do we all even pay taxes for anyway?

>>131594795
why is it bad news for liberals? that just seems like an arbitrary link.

>>131598049
this
where's that leaf commie faggot from the last thread?

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>>131595820

>>131594974
It literally only takes common sense. I'm not a college cuck and I understood the issue since they started pushing for this 15$ an hour shit.

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>>131597866
Checked. This. Also ban direct to consumer pharmaceutical drugs.

>>131595199
Like what other policies?

>>131594795
WaPo?

Guess they got hacked.

>>131598497
>direct to consumer pharma
I never met the type of person to fall for the latest meme commercial for indigestion or depression meds but I seriously doubt their cognitive capability

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>>131594795

>>131594974
This hasn't really happened anywhere with a minimum wage increase tho.

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>>131594795
Holy shit it's almost like established economics is correct and a minimum wage just increases inflation and shrinks the job market like people who know what they're talking about have been saying since the beginning of time.

Some bullshit from the article:

>Economists have long argued that increasing the minimum wage will force some employers to let workers go. In 1994, however, economists David Card and Alan Krueger published research on minimum wages in Pennsylvania and New Jersey that contradicted this theory, motivating dozens of studies into the issue over the coming years.
No you twat, economists have long argued that low skilled or inexperienced workers will be priced out.

>>131599646
>intelectual honesty
>from leftists
At least the republicans don't even pretend to lie about it.

>>131594795
THIS IS MY LAST RESORT!

>>131598498
Welfare
Social security
Affirmative action

>>131599750
Republicans don't even have their shit right on this issue when they claim that in minimum wage causes mass layoffs and inflation. Both are false and set up strawmen that are then "debunked" when that was never the issue, as is done several times in the article.

Here are a few examples of how a minimum wage actually does harm.
>Creates a barrier to entry for low skilled and inexperienced workers
>Forces companies to increase job requirements, yet another barrier
>Reduces competition for large companies by making it harder for small businesses to compete
>Promotes long term welfare dependency

>>131594795
WHAT A FUCKING SURPRISE
God the amount of dumbass liberals I tried to explain this too who just shook their heads and just kept saying "IT WILL BE FINE! IT WON'T HAPPEN! MUH UNIVERSAL INCOME!". These idiots complain about the way capitalism works constantly. Yet are somehow unable to think that, in this situation especially, it would fuck them over.

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Uh, hello faggot natsocs time to prove you're not just dimwitted racists and support socialism in the heavily White city of Seattle

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>>131594974
It's like people don't even fucking ask what business owners are going to do when it costs them more to employ low-skill workers

>>131601811
>Well they just won't make as much
>"They need that money to survive though"
>Well then they will probably hire less people then
>"Then the few people left will have to work twice as hard and likely are already overworked"
>Well I guess...they will have to raise prices afterall. BUT IT WON'T MATTER CAUSE THERE IS STILL MORE MONEY IN THE SYSTEM SO A FEW CENTS MORE WON'T HURT
They just refuse to admit that it destroys smaller businesses and allows larger businesses to get away with worker their employees harder.
You think they would be aware of threats to things they care about so much.

>>131601811
No, people ask. They are just told to 'shut up!'

>what we've done is remove the bottom rung of the ladder
In other words exactly what liberals need to win elections. College grads can now eke out a living working in fast food, and the dumber mexicans and whatever can just get more gibmedats

>>131594795

duh

>>131596496
Don't you think the changing of labor to be more automated would be sped up by increasing the cost of cheap labor?

Low wage laborers will be gone one day. Increasing their cost just hastens the process.

>>131594795
I've come to the conclusion liberals are always just virtue signaling. They don't actually want any of this crap they just want praise.

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>>131601633
We were wondering where you were.

living in this liberal shithole i agree, raising it was a fucking disaster.

we laid off 20 workers just to stay afloat, the average price for ANYTHING went up by a considerable margin, meanwhile MY wage stayed the same. yeah these fucking cucks in essence CUT my wage to raise the wage of some ignorant wetbacks.

fuck you liberals.

>>131597189
Oh, you know. Just things that are overlooked in the data. Simple things like that if you're smart you'd understand.

>>131603824
Seattle is probably the virtue signaling capital of the US. The people here love to go on about how virtuous and progressive they are, but when it comes down to it, they will protect their own interests.

Case in point: Several years ago, Bill Gates Sr. sponsored a state initiative to impose a statewide income tax (WA does not have an income tax in case anyone did not know) on top earners. The initiative was defeated soundly, and this is impossible to accomplish unless most of Seattle residents vote against it.

Seattle is bourgeois as fuck m8

>>131604845
I'm an accountant with a degree in economics. This is what I study. Tell me what flaws.

>>131604992
Well. You should know then.

>>131594974
No, this kind of shit never gets to the price inflation stage - jobs just get straight up lost, and hours get cut. unemployment of low skill positions skyrockets inside the city, driving people out to find cheaper living arrangements and available, albeit lower-paying jobs, which doesn't matter as much when you're not living in fucking Seattle.

Job availability and labor pool simultaneously drop, leaving only relatively skilled labor, and very little low-skill labor positions to support those positions that survive.

Read the study. This is exactly what it says.

>>131594795
How liberals see a minimum wage spike
>Juan and Tyrone are working at McDonald's for $7.50/h
>wage doubles
>Tyrone and Juan now both make twice as much
What actually happens
>both Tyrone and Juan are fired and Replaced by self service terminals
>mcdonalds hires pajeet for $25/h to maintain these machines at 20 locations

>>131605085
Nigger, if you are going to argue that a study is flawed and you can't articulate why, then don't make the claim.

>>131605728
I didn't check the ID's :^)

>>131595403
>People making minimum wage want to raise it
>Don't understand that this just makes me poorer in comparison as mine wouldn't raise automatically
>Don't understand I will again have to negotiate proper wages
>Don't understand why I shit on them every time they bring it up

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Just look at how they voted.....

They deserve this.

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>>131606244

>>131606244
But didn't most of their electoral votes go to meme candidates afterwards?

The city council ignored a negative study down by the uw in favor of a study by 2 socialist Berkeley professors, I live in Seattle

>>131595199
Leftist's can't intuit second order effects.

>>131607987
No one with an ideology can.

>>131594795
The thing that gets me about raising the minimum wage is that it eats away at the middle class.

Talking to my liberal mother, who's been working a job for 30 years, where she earns $20 an hour, she can't seem to wrap her head around that after three decades of service, she would be making dollars more compared to any part timer who walks in off the street.

>>131605465
>unemployment of low skill positions skyrockets inside the city

Seattle unemployment is less than 3% you fucking moron. WITH a $15 minimum wage.

The higher wages probably spurred more spending which spurred economic growth, lowering unemployment.

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>>131594795
THIS IS MY LAST RESORT

>>131594795
IMO Minimum Wage should be tied to inflation. Mitt Romney back in 2007 proposed said thing during his campaign but nobody really talked about it.

>>131608434
>Seattle unemployment is less than 3% you fucking moron
Because everyone without a job moves out if they don't want to starve, you dolt.

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>>131594974
not necessarily, anon. this hasnt really happened in other places it has been implemented. its only something like $13/hour they're talking about, It wont really cause the disruptions you think. sometimes it's funny the policies that people around here object to:

abortion: disproportionately affects blacks, is ONLY thing that has kept the black population in check.

minimum wage: will BTFO illegal workers badly and make it pointless for employers to hire them, thereby making it pointless for them to come here.

just confused.

>>131608524

SUFFOCATION

>>131602192
>they need that money to survive

To be fair, no leftist would expect this argument. When they think about privately owned businesses they think of mega corporations, so that statement would be shut down with, "well I guess the president of the company will have to stop paying himself one bazillion dollars a year"

>>131595199
close, they're ideologues who can't see how their ideology could be flawed and try their best to ignore anything that would prove them wrong.

>>131596496
>this study is flawed because it's inconsistent with past studies that supported my orthodoxy
liberal brainlet detected

>>131595199
I disagree with this. liberal policies are leftist policies, and they fail not because life is a mess but because their models are wrong, marxist-wrong.

>>131609143
Illegals are largely payed under the table my man.

>>131595403
It's a lot cheaper to buy off poor people, or import immigrants to vote democratic.

>>131598498
Open borders

>>131598257
Traps aren't gay, rural or suburban retard.

>>131601221
Leftists live in a science fiction fantasy world, to be honest. Their solutions to problems posed by their ideology are things that do not current exist, and likely never will.

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>>131594974
Good. I fucking hated tipping when I was in murica, these faggots will no longer be able to guilt trip the enlightened non tippers.

>>131612084

I was ambivalent about tipping until I traveled through Europe and almost got into fights with waiters at like every other restaurant I visited.

>>131596601
There is no back and forth, throughout all of history there has never been a single successful example of price controls. Price controls just do not work. The most back and forth you get is how to find the safest way to shoot yourself in the foot.

>>131612411
For what?

>>131612880

Usually rolling their eyes if my gf asked any innocent question, and just generally being dicks to her.

I've never gone "white knight" mode, but yeah, it made me pretty livid.

>>131613057
What innocent questions? Or you just couldn't handle the banter.

>>131595199
>study everything
>based on models
>predicting how
None of these apply to leftists.

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>>131613057
>>131613200
Forgot pic

A study that uses data which excludes 40% of the Seattle workforce. Seems legit. Not flawed at all.

Quick! Somebody summon Obamaleaf so we can all laugh at him!

>>131598498
This isn't a policy but the same idea applies. Communism.

>>131598965
Yes it has. Australia has the same problem. High wages but everything is expensive.

>>131608434
unemployment is less than 3% because shitloads of people moved. read the study.

>>131598420
>Just used common sense
Oh so you don't know about economics.

>>131595820
You are Jew af.


Hourly pay only is worth it if you work overtime.

>>131613200
>>131613253

The "banter" was them just rolling their eyes typically.

Questions were along the lines of:
"What's this item?"
"Is the kitchen open?"
"Can we sit there?"
"Can we get our bill?" after waiting for like 20 min since the first time we asked. This happened over and over and over.

Seriously. What the fuck is with European waitresses and waiters being incapable of bringing the bill promptly. So fucking slow.

>>131594795
Would a 10$ minimum wage be better?

>>131594795
>New $15 an hour
Did these motherfuckers not even read the published findings? Or are they just so I'm desperate need of views that they shove click bait titles down in everything they write?
They haven't even GOT to $15/hr yet
They been operating on $9/hr and have only just since last week shifted to $13/hr
they haven't even made it to $15 yet and the eocnomixs are already raping their anuses

>>131594974
>college economics class
>Not high school or middle school economics class
And yankeecucks say southern education is bad

"One of the major limitations of the study, the Economic Policy Institute (EPI) points out, is that the data it analyzed excluded business with multiple locations, such as chain restaurants and big box retailers. So the 40% of employees they left out work at places like McDonald's, Best Buy, and other stores that rely heavily on the low-wage workers who got the actual boost. That is a highly significant oversight.

"The UW study also draws what the EPI calls "implausible findings." Since high-paying jobs went up during the period that low-paying jobs went down, the study implies that the minimum wage hike created better jobs for the rich at the expense of the poor. But this explanation fails to take into account the overall robustness and gentrification of Seattle's economy—a much more reasonable explanation for the disparity."

http://fortune.com/2017/06/27/seattle-minimum-wage-study-results-impact-15-dollar-uw/

>>131614094
It really depends on a place you go to.
I bet you went to one of the just standard pub/restaurant.

Waiters are only there to take your order and take your food. Items are described on the menu, kitchen is open until 22 because thats common sense, You can sit anywhere, where's not taken, Yes you can have your bill, but there's 10 more tables I need to serve, finish your drinks.
And take in mind, they're paid decent wage, don't need to kiss everyones ass. Admit it, you americans can be bit annoying at the times, at least when abroad.

>>131597236
>Seattle's switches into maximum over Jew $13/hr mandated income
>Thinks they've just shown those dirty capitalist dogs what socialism truly looks like
>Hires economists to go through everything and pull up the facts so they can run it in evil right wing monsters faces
>Economists give them the reports
>Shows these people are fucking insane
>T-they're not credible! Shame! Shame them!
I bet those fucks won't even pay them for the work they did

>>131600871
>Raising minimum wage doesn't cause massive layoffs
Get out retard

>>131614636
And no one will learn a godamn thing

>>131595403
602 where you at

>>131614609

I have been to plenty of US restaurants. Not one was ever as bad as the European restaurants.

>Items are described on the menu

There are still plenty of cases where we don't know what something in the description means, or how it's prepared.

>kitchen is open until 22 because thats common sense

Are you serious? We saw plenty of different hours throughout the countries we visited. And holy fuck at Italian restaurants being closed like all day.

>You can sit anywhere, where's not taken,

Lots of tables are reserved and it's not always clear. Admittedly it's not the best question, but it shouldn't be met with rolling your eyes.

>Yes you can have your bill, but there's 10 more tables I need to serve, finish your drinks.

Fuck that. Hurry the fuck up. I've never had this problem in the US or when we visited Asia.

>And take in mind, they're paid decent wage, don't need to kiss everyones ass. Admit it, you americans can be bit annoying at the times, at least when abroad.

Your waiters are stupid, indolent fucks who need some manners.

>>131615278
Oh I though you've only been to UK. There's your problem, you think that everyone will bow down to you everywhere you go, just of something your forefathers did 70 or so years ago.
You completely ignore local customs and traditions. Yet you don't realize many people hate you for what your kind did in Europe.

>>131594795
Anyone else think there should be a different minimum wage rate for smaller businesses?

>>131614560

Don't post facts or intelligent criticism here, it upsets all the useful idiots.

>>131615443
Ignore him Latvia-bro, Anon is probably a filthy yankee. They don't have common sense and are the origin of the 'ugly-American' stereotype.

btw I used to live in Tallinn. If you are from Riga, is the Kiwi pub still there?

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>>131594795
>>131608524
>>131609377
It's actually an amazing song

>>131615443

All I expect is for my waiter not to roll their eyes if we don't fully understand a description, and not to take 20-30 minutes to give us the bill after we ask for it.

You know, something every non-Euro country can do.

What my kind did to Europe? You fucked yourself with communism. That's not our fault.

>>131615763
I can separate how different people can be from different states. Wont think that because of few shitty tourists all americans are like that. Yes the pub is still there.

wow. didn't see this coming.

>>131614408
This is incorrect, everything's been on $15 since January.
It's only $13.50 if you have health insurance.

>>131614408
No they haven't. Minimum wage in Washington was already above 10 dollars an hour you dumbass.

> Minimum wage cucks can't economics

That's why they make minimum wage.

>>131615869
>waah they didnt treat my like a fucking celebrity for my dollars wah waah
>even as I was speaking American slow and extra loud

go to McDonalds next time or better yet don't come back

>>131613574
that's because Australia is an island at the ass end of the world

>>131616566

This is actually really funny.

I never expected any special status or treatment. I expected the basic service I got everywhere else.

All I'm getting from this is Europeans are insecure as fuck about us. I never knew that.

You should be. Not because of any WWII bullshit, but because your countries are irrelevant and worthless.

>>131615869
Who were ones to pay for that communism? USA, if not for you faggots, I'd be in SS right now.

>>131617047

You should be blaming Britain for siding against Germany when they had no good reason to.

>>131617089
British couldn't do fuck all until US started their involvement. Greatest Story Never Told, look it up.

>>131617196

Fine then. Blame the Nips for attacking us.

What could we do then?

>>131617235
US was indirectly involved way before that

>>131617305

True enough. It was really Britain that got the anti-Germany ball rolling though.

>>131598498
War on Poverty

>>131617416
It was the jews

>>131617623

It was the Jews trying to destroy all of Europe with communism, Hitler fighting them, and the Eternal Anglos being butthurt that their status as the rulers of Europe was being threatened.

>>131594795
THIS IS MY PLASTIC FORK

What is college level economics like? Do they lean left or right?

>>131594974
You don't need either of those. You just need to see what happened when they forced employers to cover their full-time employees with healthcare - now suddenly everyone was working 5-6 less hours so they wouldn't be considered full-time.

First thing that came to mind from the result of this is that no one earning less than 15, especially ones that were paying minimum wage, will ever give out overtime. If your policy makes businesses pay more then you need to see how businesses will circumvent it to pay as little as possible and address those issues so things either fail as fast as possible or have a succeed as fast as possible.

>Trying to improve the life standard of the underclass in jewconomic system.

It didn't work in communism it won't work in capitalism either.

>>131594795
WHO COULD HAVE GUESSED!

>>131596496
ITS NOT TRUE COMMUNISM REAL COMMUNISM HAS NEVER BEEN TRIED BEFORE SOVIET RUSSIA WAS A CAPITALISTIC SOCIETY RUN BY WHITE MEN WITH NO JEWS IN CHARGE LENIN WAS NOT A JEW I REPEAT LENIN WAS NOT A JEW

this is you this is your brain on liberalism