Atheists

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>Watching a debate between atheist and Christian intellectuals
>atheist makes a good point
>"But muh fedora"

>>131523004
Wat a peekah, why they no god....

>>131523004
>Watching a debate between atheist and Christian intellectuals
>Everyone is being stupid

Feels good to be enlightened by my own intellect.

>>131523004
Welcome to your average atheist. Dont expect much intellectual thought from them. They always regurgitate the same nonsense on how violent and ebil religion is.

>>131523182
This has never actually happened though.

>>131526562
I've seen it happen plenty of times on this board, and the slightly different "your an idiot" or "burnin' in HELL" arguments in real life.

I don't, why would you say that about me op?
People did set out to crusade on little more than the say-so of clergy, in that sense it is an argument against certain religions.
I recognize that it's mostly shit jewligions like the Abrahamic ones that are a problem anyway. Religion is fine generally.

What's wrong with the Crusades again? Without it Europe would already be a Muslim majority continent. I'd love to see an atheist speak up in that society.

Religion is bad due to dogma. The 20th century wars were bad due to do dogma. SJWs are bad due to dogma. The Normies oppress the Kekistanis due to dogma.

Dogma is bad. Unconditional belief is bad, because it makes one vulnerable to manipulation. Saying "think this way or else" has harmful consequences.

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>posts opinion without sauce
>mfw you reject reality and substitute your own
Ideologyfags.

>>131527262
There aren't any intellectuals on this board though.

>>131523004
>christian
>intelectual
>makes good point

Now without contradictions

>>131527262
it started because 4chan atheists were just being annoying instead of critical thinkers so the norm became to just respond with *tips fedora* or something of the sort

>>131526063
Religion is not allways violent, it is stupid, based on kikes and make people follow nonsense (((rules))) jews invented.

>>131523004
because our intellectual intelligence is vastly superior to yours, and we dont give a fuck what happens to anyone, good or bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVmBRr_Psng

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>>131523004
>Christian makes a good point

Like what ? "it's true because it's written in a book" "you don't know X that means God did it"

"muh crusades" is stupid when used as an argument, an atheist should demonstrate how nonsensical religious beliefs are to anyone with a decent science education, not debate if they are good or evil.

>Christian "intellectuals"
>Christian makes a good point

I don't believe OP, give one example of a good point ever given by a Christian.

>>131523004
>20th century wars weren't caused by religious motivation at all?
You're kidding right? Religion was the driving force behind every major conflict (except Korea and Vietnam)

>>131531560
And yet here you are going "muh scientists". Religious beliefs make perfect sense when you are intelligent enough to understand God's word and see the creation all around you.

Why do both Christians and Muslims seem so dogmatic with their faith? Or am I not seeing all the Shinto, Native American Belief, or Pagan holy wars, forced conversion, and other such dark and dogmatic acts because I haven't read about them?

>>131527630
>I'd love to see an atheist speak up in that society.
You never could. The church killed them all back then. In fact, the last person England put to death for atheism was in the 1650s.

Nowadays, the religious get their feelings hurt by non-believers and go running for their safe spaces. It's embarrassing, really.

>>131527262

>/pol/
>Christian/Atheist intellectuals.

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Only argument against any of the (((abrahamic))) religions is that they are middle eastern and semetic in origin and have nothing to do with white people.

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>>131530730
>the norm became to just respond with *tips fedora*
The church made the fedora fashionable. Pic related

>>131532961
Still has a higher intellectual average than most of the rest of America.

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>>131523182
you christcucks are projecting with your fedora talk

Religion gay

>>131523004
>"But muh crusades"
Why would any non-believe have an issue with the Crusades? That's just one nonsensical Abrahamic religion going after another.

Atheists would be far more concerned about the Inquisitions, the burning/drowning of witches, the torture and murder of heretics and period of intellectual deprivation by the various churches we know today as the Dark Ages.

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>>131523004
The crusades weren't the only thing. I think the Dark Ages were way worse, they even persecuted pagan scientists like Galileo, christcucks can't defend that

>>131523004

Reminder not one person in the history of humanity has ever killed anyone else because of atheism.

You may now post killers who happened to be atheists or communists killing religious to assert communism ideology.

>>131533057
Well that and it's much more probable for a universe to have spontaneously come into existence in violation of one of the laws of physics than an all powerful all knowing being having come into existence in violation of several laws of physics.
>inb4 God always existed.
While that would be possible if we also violate the physics of time itself, that makes it even more unlikely.
Need more explanations? I have work to do so no guarantee I can reply in time.

>>131533803
>le dark ages repression may may
guess what, you're retarded. even this atheist thinks so.
http://strangenotions.com/gods-philosophers/

>>131533803

That chart implies that by the end of the renaissance, humanity was just as scientifically/technologically advanced as during the Roman empire? Yeah, okay, buddy...

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>>131523004

>>131533803

No one else picked up the slack while we were down and out. I wonder what will happen to this planet once the jews have finished genociding us?

>>131534095
I'm not going to read all that revisionist dribble. Go quote your bible verses in your neighborhood synagogue shitface. Scientific illiterates like you have caused so much damage already, honestly how can you tards believe the Earth is 6,000 years old?

This whole thread is filled with idiots who don't know anything about religion or history

>>131533057

What about the fact they promote slave morality

>>131534614
This so much

>>131534773
You're one of them

>>131535001
>>131534614
Perhaps you can reply to the "idiots" in this thread and show them where they're wrong, instead of just calling everyone else an idiot.

>>131523004
But a lot of 20th century wars -are- driven by theological differences... Just look at the middle East.

I think the main question is: has religion contributed to the world in any positive way. Keep in mind:
>Has to still be applicable. Calming humans down and helping them explain earthquakes 5000 years ago doesn't justify it's existence today
>Has to not be dramatically outshone by other approaches to social interaction. "It brings communities together" falls short when a town hall does the same thing without catalyzing thousands of years of suffering (and is thus vastly preferable to a religious institution)

>>131535186
I would but it would just fall on deaf ears

>>131534597
I'm an atheist too, dickweed. Not sure why I have the Templar flag on right now, though.
>I'm not going to read something that goes against my predetermined beliefs
and that's why your cancer

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>>131535443
I'm not atheist. I can follow my intuition to understand if something is right or wrong, this goes beyond so-called "reason" (which is a product of christcuck scheming). They expect debates so they can use rhetorical tricks, but we just need to straight out call them out on their shit like our ancestors did

>>131523004
Protestant propaganda.

>>131533871
>Reminder not one person in the history of humanity has ever killed anyone else because of atheism.
Sure, not "one". Tens of millions, yes, but not just "one".

One day when you get Google, you'll find out what how bone-jarringly retarded you are.

>>131535299
The western perception of 'religion' is a modern conception and these questions never go in the favor of the anti-theist.

>>131533899
>all powerful all knowing being having come into existence
Supernatural beings are a violation of logic. You can believe in them, but they never really exist.

>>131533871
>This anon

Atheism isn't a belief. It's a subsection of beliefs and does not constitute an identity. Those atheistic views have spawned tons of deaths though.

>>131536339
That link I posted you is not even a "debate". It's a review of a book full of historically accurate facts posted by an atheist who was tired of people posting that godawful graph.

>>131526063
I'm an atheist (maybe more agnostic now days) on the down low. I think Christianity is the best religion, bow my head at the dinner table when I'm a guest, etc... I don't mention it around friends and family unless it's extremely relevant. I don't understand why fedorafags have to hate religion just to disagree with it. History and the modern left show what a society devolves to when religion isn't pervasive. Most humans are incapable of being moral just for the sake of it or we wouldn't need police and jails. Religion helps keep in check other things that aren't necessarily illegal and gives a society a base set of morals. People point to shit like witch burnings but that was hundreds of years ago and if anything, Muslims, witch doctors, etc....are doing the same or worse right fucking now.

Christianity pretty much has it's shit together these days.

>>131533803
>The dark ages fallacy
Take your low iq strawmans to Reddit

>>131535299
>he thinks western involvement has to do with religion
It's about the money anon, always has been

>>131538396
Anti-theist seem to be reactionaries or people who run up against it politically.

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>>131538618
>>131538535
>>131538439
You will regret your words when we create our white ethnostate.
my whiteness is not for sale.

>>131523004
religion is unbiased and without desire. whether God exists or not, religion is the only good guidance on morality.

>>131523004
I’m an atheist and I have no problem with the crusades.

>>131538701
You know Islam is a religion right?

You critics of "Christianity" which I would label more specifically as "Institutional State Sponsored Christianity" are pretty much correct on your condemnation of the obvious hypocrisy arising from the Churches approval and use of fear and harm towards men.

>>131532819
State Shinto of Imperial Japan, Aztec human sacrifice, pagans hunting albinos for body parts.

>>131523004
Most atheists only argue against Christianity on a superficial level. They hardly go over the important concepts of individuality that Christianity brought us.
The Crusades are not something I would bring up if I was debating anyone about the merits of Christianity. Like any religion at the time the culture was one of war, and necessarily so. When you take into account the Muslim conquests the Crusade are justified. Also no one mentions at that time around 1200, during the 4th and 5th crusade the mongols were raping and murdering their way across the steppe into Europe and the Middle East. Causing death on a scale the crusaders could only dream of. There is nothing special about them and they are not an argument against the ideas that Christianity helped to spread and thus create the environment for the enlightenment.

>>131538836
yes and it works in saudi arabia. saudi arabians love islam and it matches them there.

>>131539166
>State shinto.
Alright, fair enough.
>Aztec human sacrifice
>Pagans hunting albinos.
I think I should have been a bit more clear, I meant dogmatic in regards to spreading their religion. These seem more like dumbass beliefs.

>>131532819
Christians and Muslims start with holy wars. Pagans don't get holy wars until they reform which the AI virtually never does.

>>131531890
Do not be a degenerate.

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>>131538145
>Atheism isn't a belief. It's a subsection of beliefs and does not constitute an identity. Those atheistic views have spawned tons of deaths though.

No, no and no.
Atheism isn't a subsection of beliefs, it is simply the rejection of theism, end of story. Atheism isn't even anti-theistic (against religion).

While I admit that there are atheists who are also anit-theistic, not all are. It is a "not all fingers are thumbs" situation.

As for the claim that Atheism has spawned tons of death.... HOW ABOUT SOME FUCKING PROOF?

>muh stalin, hitler and mao

They didn't abolish Christian faith and worship for atheism (even if they did, they would be anti-theists, not atheists), they abolished it for the worship of themselves and for the worship of the cult like ideas of marxism.

>>131539512
Islam taught in Saudi Arabia convinced 15 people to come to my country and fly planes into the WTC towers

>>131539466
But...violence, death and war give absolute legitmacy for the atheist to discount the churches legitimacy and question even the existence of the churches god, Jesus Christ.

>>131523004

>atheist intellectual

Funny how every atheist considers himself to be an intellectual. What the fuck is there to think about being an atheist? Is just common sense, most of them haven't read any scripture.

>>131534095
>this atheist thinks so.
Historians are convinced by the anthropological and archaeological evidence more than ever that when the churches were at their most powerful, reasoning and scientific advancement were at their lowest ebb.

>>131539800
> hey abolished it for the worship of themselves and for the worship of the cult like ideas of marxism.

And that's natural. The human mind needs to believe in something.
If God is abolished they will seek other idol.

>>131540135
Intellectual is a kike buzzword.
It means nothing besides masturbation of the ego.

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>>131540662
your intellect is like that of dolan

>>131538145
>Those atheistic views have spawned tons of deaths though.
According to Stalin, the Orthodox church (of which Ioseb Jughashvili was formerly a seminary student) was plotting to overthrow the new government and install a new Tzar.

>>131539909
>But...violence, death and war give absolute legitmacy for the atheist to discount the churches legitimacy and question even the existence of the churches god, Jesus Christ.

Can you explain how it does? Violence is not something specific to Christianity or Islam. Religion does not have to exist for violence and most violence is not done in the name of religion. Even when their were very religious theocracies an argument can be made for greed and conquest being the main factor for war.

>>131540135
I'm an atheist but I grew up that way, never been to church outside of wedding/funerals. I still read the scriptures at least once a week if not more. I even went to youth group for a bit with friends. Christianity is dear to me even if I cannot believe in God or that Jesus was killed and resurrected.
Being an Atheist requires you to think about Ethics a lot more. Since there is not religious guidelines. Though I think the Bible is great start and is certainly import for understand western ethics. I hate that most atheists have never read it, and they only look for the contradictions or take a story literally and use that to show how evil it is, instead of looking for the meaning in those stories.

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>>131540845
>>131540794

That individual was stupid with a bad argument if their best argument had anything to do with crusades. That's worse than dindus bringing up slavery. (((Christians))) aren't quite as mindless as Muslims, but don't pretend they aren't neck and neck for dumbest cunts on earth

>>131540723
shoo shoo filthy rat

>>131539800
>Atheism isn't a subsection of beliefs, it is simply the rejection of theism, end of story.

Well yes, but HOW you deny theism is very important. Hence it is used as a header for kinds of beliefs. Saying "I'm an atheist" says absolutely nothing by itself because of how varied theism is. And yes, atheism isn't anti-theism.
>As for the claim that Atheism has spawned tons of death.... HOW ABOUT SOME FUCKING PROOF?


Reign of Terror, Marxist anti-clerical violence, and the like. The intent WAS very explicitly to fight off threats to teaching secularism and naturalism. Naturalism is the most common modern form of atheism.

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>>131523004
>Christian makes a good point

>>131523594
>>131523182
thinking your smater than people who talk about ideas using silly arguments ..your silly..cuck

>>131539909
U wot. How?
If that were the case then the Reign of Terror would have debunked secularism a long time ago.

>>131527262
there are tons of debates on this board that arnt quite this retarded tho remember fags /pol is a christo board with a deep history of conspiracy never forget the old fag know

>>131540169
[Citation needed]
The church at its strongest would be before the fall of Rome and the high middle ages into the renaissance by the way.

>>131523004
>Christian makes a good point
It's rare you know. To the point I've never seen this occuring even once.

>>131523004
the crusades were necessary to fend off the muslim horde's. its as simple as that.

>>131530730
This is what *tips fedora* refers to in my mind, it's not a criticism of atheism itself but the thoughtless regurgitating of pop media talking points like muh dark ages or sky wizard. It's true the meme is overused but it's still usually used appropriately.

>>131540794
According to Stalin and Lenin, state atheism would be enforced. You give too much credence to hearsay.

>>131540169
what historians historians are known for being un accepting truth deniers and for following a thin veil of truth that prescribes tho the narrative they have in mind

>Christian
>Makes a good point
Pick one

>>131523004
I don't understand the kind of athiest who would be willing to debate. Of course I know they are many of that still but still. The whole point, at least for me, is to reject the idea of organized religion and faith based belief. Once you're engaging in trying to convince others of your non-belief you're just doing the same thing from the other side of the fence.

>>131541499
Not stumbled into a Catholic General during the 3 years or so they've been happening, eh?

>>131540845
>I hate that most atheists have never read it
Nearly all the atheist I've met were formerly believers who read the bible and discovered a lot that the church just could not gloss over. But atheist means you don't believe in Elohim, Allah, Yeshiva, angels, demons, Satan, etc. or any of the gods of any other religions.

>Though I think the Bible is great start and is certainly import for understand western ethics.
The opposite is true. At every turn the bible distorts what proper ethics should be.

In the Parable of the Talents, who does the "master" represent?

>>131523004
No, Atheists don't. Crusades were the inevitable result from mudslim harassment. Only difference now, is that back than people got fucked right back.

Also Christian intellectual? Those terms are mutually exclusive.

Only reason why its brought up is to show other religions capable of starting holy wars, but that idea is as antiquated as the crusades themselves. Sure people p7sh agendas, but Islam fucks are the last mainstream relgious cancer. Christianity evanesced in most of the relevant world. US is catching up with the death of baby boomers.

>>131541611
Well they wouldn't want anything competing with the state. They were probably scared that a Christian is liable to remember he is a man and his salvation depends on him acting according to his conscience and not just follow orders blindly. Communism is a cult of the state and they wanted no rivals.

>>131541802
>Also Christian intellectual? Those terms are mutually exclusive.


Why is r/atheism here so much today?

>>131540845
I guess Jesus' words and life compared to the violence, torture, war etc that the church and christians have done

>>131533803
>tfw the fall of Rome and subsequent 'dark ages' was due to the adoption of Gauls to create a multicultural Rome but everyone blames it on Christianity

>>131523004
>t. Christian here
Atheists often make some really strong points and i honestly enjoy a good argument, so as soon as i hear "But religion caused LITERALLY EVERY WAR EVER, if there was no religion there would be no war!" I just end any and all arguments with that person, their chromosome count is clearly not proper and there is no reason to argue with a retard.

>>131541929
>ya Christians are the real war mongers!
fuck off jew.

>>131541802
>Christians can't be intellectuals
Try leaving the basement once in a while. The vast majority of Christians are nothing like what gets picked on by the secular blogs you hang out in.

>Crusades
>Not defensive wars
what the fuck am i reading

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>>131523004
crusades were fucked up, but it's time to let bygones be bygones. i'm sure all the religions are mature enough bury the hatchet and get along.

tbf the crusades were partly about protecting christendom, but were mostly just a convenient excuse to get a lot of knights, men-at-arms, and poor people the fuck out of europe so they'd cause less trouble at home.

>childrens crusade
>crusaders sacking Constantinople and other christian cities on the way to the holy land
>etc

>>131541776
I would say the person you are describing is people my fathers age. Hardly anyone in my generation could speak about any part of the bible with any accuracy.

The parable of talents is about being given a gift from god, and to hide it away and not use it is not good for you. it is like not accepting it at all. Or at least this is what I get from it. The ones who took that gift from god and used it to make it stronger and spread it are the blessed.

>>131542490
fucking bullshit. it was to stop the encroaching Muslims.

>>131533082
Those are vampires though

>>131541929
Which is why I had said that most of war was for conquests at that time not about any particular religion.

>>131541802
>Also Christian intellectual? Those terms are mutually exclusive.
Atheism is a cult based on strawmans fedorashitter.

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>>131542211
The vast majority of atheist critiques I've seen have just been people critiquing sections of Christianity (namely Protestant or Evangelical Protestantism) or failing to understand what they're speaking about. Very rarely do you see actual critique to classic Christian thought. People discussing Aquinas' First Way is a good example of how poor their discussion has gone.

>>131542235
1 John 2:6 KJV
"He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."

>>131541927
Summerfags most likely

>>131530791
The kikes HATE Christianity. Just ask communist Russia.

>>131542490
>crusades were fucked up
Indeed they were, attacking your own fellow Christians instead of driving musloid scum back into the Red Sea is, indeed, fucked up.

>>131542490
It was actually to stop Muslims from conquering Europe. Most of Eastern Europe and Northern African had been taken over by Muslims in the process of 400 years before Christians even lifted a finger in early 1000 A.D. If it wasn't for the Crusades, you probably would be worshipping Allah or be facing a beheading right now.

>>131542901
hahaha I bet you thiink you made a good point there. this is talking about being like jesus.

>>131543348
To be some what fair Constantinople's refusal to help the Crusaders on their way tot he holy land was kind of fucked up to. Still shitty that they sacked it.

“The fight against the Turks (Islam) must begin with repentance, and we must reform our lives, or we shall fight in vain. The Church should drive men to repentance by showing our great and numberless sins and our ingratitude, by which we have earned God’s wrath and disfavor, so that He justly gives us into the hands of the devil and the Turk.” - Martin Luther

>>131542616
Depends on which crusade we're talking about. Not every person who went crusading was a pious white knight. Sure, you had some nobility/royalty and many pilgrims who took up arms and did admirable things in defense of Christendom. Just as many people people went along for a chance at wealth. I'm not saying the crusades weren't justified, though.

>>131531560
POWERFUL

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>>131543460
>using Bill Nye and Neil DeGrasse Tyson as worthy of quoting when they have been shilling for the globalist agenda and for the "multiple gender theory" pseudo science bullshit.
You need to go.

>>131543760
They are mainstream atheist figures.
Comparing real important thinkers to mainstream intellectuals is the point of the picture.

>>131543760
the whole point of this very old and often posted meme is shitting over those faggots summerfag

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My favorite quote.

Not saying Christianity is right, but...

>>131523004
Because the purpose of atheism is to make communism morally palpable.

The atheist will never speak of the millions killed by Stalin or Mao because the atheist is a communist to the core.

>>131523004
>>Christian makes a good point

Stop lying using green text. Christians can make "good points" in debates that exist only in their own minds.

>20th century wars weren't caused by religious motivation

You completely failed to name any.

>>131542585
>The parable of talents is about being given a gift from god,
Well, was it really a "gift". The slave wasn't able to keep the money, was he? In fact, in the story, the master beats and whips his slave and calls him wicked and lazy only for the offense of not making the rich man even richer? A man who reaps where he doesn't sow? (a definition of theft)

Is this how their NT gods behave? People with critical thinking skills can see this for what it truly is.

>>131544219
Marxism co-oped naturalism, not Naturalism to Marxism.

>>131523004
Suppose that God did exist. Would the Crusades then be a good or a bad thing? Atheists cannot for one single moment work on that supposition. So all arguments are variants on "I don't believe so anything done by Christianity that I don't like is bad, anything that I do like is serendipity".

>>131544405
>Suppose that God did exist.
*does

>>131544228
Vietnam War, Korean War, Gulf-Coast War, all of these were caused by uprising ms or promise of foreign goods (oil in the case of the Gulf War)

>>131531560

The concept of god exists outside of a book. "The book" doesnt prove or disprove anything, its simply a book. Anyone with any signifigant level of intelligence would understand that.

>>131538396
I agree, see my post here

>>131544090

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>>131543499
It was a dick move by both sides. Constantinople directly benefited from Muslim failure (more than most) and should've been handing out supplies hand over fist to anyone willing to march that far and slay muzzies.

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>>131544694
Maybe a Jew or two on the side

How come christians only talk about their prophet they dont study his words or follow His life. He didnt kill his enemies or encourage a rebellion

>ww2
Jews?

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>>131523182

>>131544319
I don't think it is really about making money for anyone. It is about taking he gift of life and salvation and making that idea stronger in your heart.
The punishment is mental not physical, I think it represents the happiness in a mans life. If you are lazy and you do not cultivate the gifts God gives you you will suffer. I am not religious and I don't think that salvation is important in the sense that the Bible talks about it. But I do think that people who do not cultivate their talents/skills and are lazy do suffer in their life. I can understand this parable that way. Whether the master is God or it is Nature itself the outcome is going to be similar.

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>>131544969
Bingo.

>>131544219
>the atheist is a communist to the core.
This is lie, for you see to accept atheism usually means accepting evolution, which explains how life came to be as a highly competitive process between species (a more competitive origin for man than God just creating everything, at the very least).By extension, such a theory works better with capitalism than communism, to the point where we actually have a name for it when applied as such; Social Darwinism.
And already I provided more reasoning and possibly evidence than you did in your post.

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>>131544902
>Maybe a Jew or two on the side
Back then I think that was just called "Tuesday"

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why do they ignore the fact that the crusades were the reaction to the jihadis conquering 2/3 of the christian world?Soon there will be another Crusade,first we kill the devil worshiping pope and burn the vatican to the ground and after that we remove kebab and the false jews from the holy lands. Deus Vult

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>>131544936
tbf Jesus never had to deal with muzzies

>>131545126
The world needs social darwinism. We need to convert commie atheists to social darwinist atheists.

>>131523004
>Islam invades and pillages for 100 years
>Christians do nothing
>Muslims block Christian pilgrimages to the holy land
>Crusades finally happen

Yeah but the crusades were evil.

Would love to hear the rationalization a Christian has for hurting and killing. Why do you thing it gets thrown in your faces all the time?Its obvious hypocrisy

>>131545332
thousands of years. muslims are still doing it to this day.

>>131545232
Mainly because it doesn't feed into the globalist agenda that most people that claim to be atheist seem to accept.

>>131545292
No, but did he have to deal with any potentially violent opposing religious individuals?

>>131545472
What are you trying to ask?

>>131532676
>when you are intelligent enough to understand God's word
This is was americans actually believe.
Point and laugh!

>>131543991
>My favorite quote.
It's been debunked. He never said that in any of his prolific writings, plus his family and friends say it would be very uncharacteristic for him to say something like this.

>>131545472
we dont hurt and kill people. you wish we did. but thats just not the case.

>>131544405
If Christianity is beneficial to the project of long term human survival that means it's in accordance with God's will. If not we are still in sin, meaning we are "out of sync" with God and will be wiped out. It could be argued though I don't agree that the crusades demonstrate the Christian tradition is in sin and our salvation is not to be found there.

>>131545706
Opposing religions? No. His own fellow Jews? Yes. He was a threat to them and their established power they had, so they killed him thinking that would be it.

Holy shit, how wrong they were.

>>131545790
it an actual quote you mong.

>>131545499
they couldn't have
The first crusade was commissioned in 1095, Islam was only founded in 610 --and thats literally Muhammed getting the visions.

Yes they are still doing it now, but when the first crusade was called, they'd only been raping the holy land for about a century.

>>131545757
>German cuck mocking American intelligence
The irony is just too delicious

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>>131544319
The Parable of the Talents is about not squandering what gifts you have - whether material or immaterial such as skills and talents - but using them for the glory of God. Through giving glory to God we excel ourselves as our capacity for it comes from God inherently.

>>131545033

Evolution does not disprove the concept of a creator you twit. If you knew anything at all about protein synthesis you would recognize that life is miraculously complex.

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>>131523004
Because there are few honest atheists, just as there are few honest Christians.

>>131546067
I didn't ridicule your intelligence but your believes.
But now i do shit for brains.

>>131523004
>religious wars compare to every other type of war imaginable
This is apples to oranges. The crusades were unique to their context, like every war is. It is a logical fallacy to insist otherwise.

>>131545744
Sorry I wrote too quickly for you too understand.
Will slow it down for u.

In every religion throughout history and up to the present day, a prophets message is not solely his words but his life also. Acolytes strive to understand and then apply a prophets words, so persuaded they were by the example of His life. They then emulate practically and tangibly his life. Why not for Christ and the Christian? It was not always so. Those first disciples of Christ and the first few generations of their spiritual offspring did not only hear Christ's words only, but followed and treated His lifestyle as both example and command. Life lived in the literal faith exampled and exhorted Jesus Christ.

>>131546179
>nietzsche
nigger what are you doing?

>>131546228
Did you have a stroke when typing, Kraut?

>oh what's that? you think Muslims are violent? well WESTBORO haha checkmate Christfag xD
False equivalency is a hell of a drug.

>>131545965
yeah but some people usually don't take bs.For example a guy got his car's windshield broken by some gypsy roaches and what did he do?Call the cops?Call his friends?Bitch about it on the internet?NAH!He just made about 20 molotovs and burnt their house down at night.No survivors.Now he is serving life in prison,but i would give him a medal and a pardon if i were president.

>>131545033
>I don't think it is really about making money for anyone.
Right, but this is the comparison. If you''re a slave (not an employee, not an associate, not a partner, rather someone in chains), and you don't increase the investment of someone else, then you deserve to be beaten and whipped. You deserve to be called wicked and lazy.

I'm struggling to understand how there could be any good ethics in this situation.

>>131544651
>all of these were caused by uprising ms or promise of foreign goods

Then it isn't atheism's fault. OP has no point.

>>131545126
>This is lie, for you see to accept atheism usually means accepting evolution,
No it doesn't.
This is just another in the long list of lies certain people fall for.

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>>131527262
>intellectuals
>in this board
That's where you failed faggot

>>131546362
>I didn't ridicule your intelligence
>But now i do
>shit for brains
Happy?

>>131546114
Would you say that in order to do something for the glory of god is to do well at something? What ever natural talents god gives and then to go on to use them to make yourself better and the world around you better? I often look for a secular ethic from the parables. This one to me simply means use your talents to better yourself and others. otherwise the natural world will punish you like starving to death or simply on the extreme and in the psychological realm you will likely suffer from depression with out achievement through work.

>>131523004
Why are people like you incapable of distinguishing catholics from christians?

>>131546331
Posting a honest atheist, as opposed to the dishonest cucks most atheists are underneath their pretensions.

>>131546538
You asked for wars in the 20th century that were not religiously motivated, not if they were "atheistism's fault" or not. OP's point was the 20th century wars were caused by non-religious motivators, not that it was atheism's fault for them.

That's just conjecture.

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>>131523004
this is one of the cringiest things i've ever seen

starts off bad with the muslim, but then lawrence krauss makes it even worse to the point where youcan only feel pity for him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSwJuOPG4FI

>>131534749
slave morality is fine for the masses but not for the upper crust, we just need something better than the literal satanism the current elite practice which trickles down to the ordinary folk. the average woman and child NEEDS religion or they'll act retarded all the time

>>131538691
Looks like someone forgot to turn on his Nazi flag.

>>131546774
Good job, now let me correct my original post in turn
>German cuck that believes in letting in Muslims and letting them tape their women is making fun of an American's beliefs
>the irony is too delicious

Are you happy now, Kraut?

>>131545954
>it an actual quote you mong.
It is an actual fake quote you fucking retard! It's not real. It's been "misattributed" is the official line, but Heisenberg never said it, never wrote it and the people who knew him say it never happened.

>>131546860
yo i think the point here is that all religions cause wars and disputes and they should be treated that way instead of being the answer to suffering

>>131547288
>German cuck that believes in letting in Muslims and letting them tape their women
All conjecture.
Your statement that atheist just lack the intelligence to understand "god's word" is pretty retarded though.

>>131546114
>The Parable of the Talents is about not squandering what gifts you have
No, the "talents" in the story are actual units of money that the slave was supposed to invest to make the master richer, like his other slaves did.

>>131547419
No... the Catholic Church did. Way to prove that anons point

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I find it telling that whenever a christian fag and a fedora tipper get into an argument the fedora tipper while a bit autistic just ask's for any verifiable peer reviewed empirical evidence to support the claims of religion...

And the Chrisfag immediately jumps to one of the following.
- Glittering generality about morality
- Atheism has done bad stuff to
- Religion has utility so there
- Why are you trying to oppress me.
- How do you know what you know is real and how can you trust your senses ( pre-Supositional trash )

They never actually answer the question or provide any evidence because they can't and they know it and to admit it would pretty much instantly loose them the argument.

All Christians are atheists...

>Gives reasons to believe in God
BUT WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE
>Well you see, God is not in nature so we couldn't possibly give natural evidence...
SEE? NO EVIDENCE NO EVIDENCE
>Sir, you're clearly not listening to me. God is a conclusion that we arrive to by way reason, and I've given many different reasons to believe my position is true while you haven't given us any reason to believe that your position is true
BURDEN OF PROOF YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE

I've watched dozens of debates with atheists and this is very typical. This is my favorite because of how unreasonable the atheist is. At one point he starts telling to the audience to "just look it up online!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQADiuyPV80

>>131532858
This has never happened dumbass.

>>131546888
>OP's point was the 20th century wars were caused by non-religious motivators, not that it was atheism's fault for them.

OP started a christian versus atheist thread. His so called "point" about non-religious wars is completely useless. Saying oil wars exist doesn't make religious wars look any better.

>>131545907
>If Christianity is beneficial to the project of long term human survival that means it's in accordance with God's will
The will of God is that we return to him through Christ, God being the ultimate and absolute good. That may or may not include long term human survival, which is certainly a 'good' seen from a purely human point of view. I could probably argue that the Crusades were in line with God's will as they allowed this return, so long as there is no conversion by the sword.

I think your line of thought one that is held by many Christians 'if something fortunate happens to me, I must be in God's graces'. That is already so close to the materialist and atheist point of view, and perhaps the most relatable to them because of that.

>>131547299
Link to where it was found out that it was a misquote/ fake quote, cause I just looked it up the quote and every official page has accurately attributed the quote to him, so link, or I'm calling bullshit.

All Christian's are atheist.

>>131523004
>Christian makes a good point
Y'know how I know this didn't happen?

>>131545790
>>131545790
No, Heisenberg did say that in his speech Scientific and Religious Truth (1974).

>>131546800
>Would you say that in order to do something for the glory of god is to do well at something?

Partially. You can do horrible things well and that is not to benefit a single person.

To do something for the glory of God is to do so out of love. Love I am defining classically as the willing of the good of the other without self-interest.

As God gives us our skills, expressing our skills and our nature to their fullest content expresses the glory of God while also having us gain from it but the intent is not clarified.

Generally, we as people better act in our nature when acting out of love. Much too much people see "acting in our nature" as acting as brutes that are slave to their desires. They forget that they naturally have reason and conscience.

>>131547547
That wasn't my statement at all. I'm just laughing at you when you let so much more bullshit go through in your own country.
Focus on improving your own shitty situation before belittling others, Kraut.

>>131523004
What was the point? because i've never heard a christian make a good point (regarding christianity or religion).

>>131547560
Yes, the gifts in the example are material. Gifts in relation to God do not have to be material.

What's the issue? It's a parable. We're not focusing on making God money.

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Why is Christianity so cucked these days that they have to rely on atheists to do the dirty work for them?

Compare pic related to the current pope or any other high ranking christian authority.

>this religion at one point allowed white people to rule half the world

>>131547766
So one falls over themselves while the other acts autistic. Sounds about right.

>>131547913
Good point. Really kind of a weak starting point, but you asked for wars, so I provided.

Capitalism, Communism, Nazism, and political Zionism: these evil forces were the SECRET POWER that worked behind the scenes of governments, and made them adopt policies which ultimately forced them into wars and revolutions. Some blamed the Roman Catholic Church; others Freemasonry; still others Judaism, the World Federalists, Bilderbergers. But when I used the Holy Bible, the inspired Word of God, to test the truth or fallacy of each piece of evidence, I began to realize the TRUTH. That TRUTH is that the Luciferian revolt against the right of God to exercise supreme authority over the entire universe was transferred to this earth in the Garden of Eden. It has continued to develop here ever since until it is now in its semi-final stage. Those who have directed the conspiracy have used every guile and form of cunning to set sections of the human race against each other, by dividing them into opposing camps, then arming them, and making them fight over one issue or another. When I considered how those who were enemies in one war were allied in the next; how Capitalists financed alleged “Workers’ Revolutions;” how those who call themselves Jews, but are not, and do lie, sacrificed just as many of the lesser Jewish brethren as was necessary to serve their own diabolical purposes; how devilish propaganda divided millions of Christians into opposing armies, and made them fight and kill each other off by the tens of millions, without anyone engaged having the slightest personal animosity towards the other; then I became convinced that the Holy Scriptures are the inspired Word of God, and that Jesus Christ carne on earth to warn us of the existence of the Luciferian conspiracy. He lived, suffered, and died in order to make known the truths which will release us from the bonds of Satan so we can enjoy eternal happiness with His and our Heavenly Father. It is up to us now. We can accept or reject the truth. (John 8:32)

>>131546677
One, I said usually.
Two, I've seen it happen many, many times before with a vast majority of atheists.
Now I think your just pulling shit from your ass.

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>>131547766
>>131547781

Here, have my three part rundown on Divine Conservation.

I'm on phone but I hope it helps.

http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/121880695/#121900250

>>131548346
Don't you worry about the bullshit in my country.
We can take quite a few more refugees before our quality of life gets anywhere as bad as yours.

>>131548174
Thanks Zizek.

>>131548187
r/atheism pls go

>>131547969
>'if something fortunate happens to me, I must be in God's graces'
That's not quite my position though, only long term survival matters not my financial fortune or whatever, I try to frame things in materialistic terms because otherwise it all falls on deaf ears. Before Christ the post garden human race was unsustainable and headed for annihilation, through Christ is the only way we can survive. His followers are Christ's body on earth and Christ's body must live to make His kingdom come on earth as in heaven. The heavens include everything immaterial including your thoughts and unconscious mind.

>>131548216
Ok yes, this is what I was getting at. I definitely make the distinction between evil and good actions.
I think any skill performed well is done with love, but love of ones self first and foremost. This love is transferred on to those who you use your skill, whether that be work or a product you are making. My understand of the scripture places some divine part of god in all of us so a healthy love of self is a love of god from my understand. Excluding narcissism and unearned pride.
Which is why i think the parable is important for anyone whether you are religious or not.
It warns against ineptitude and laziness. Even if a person is not religious the basic premise holds true.

Gotta make my son lunch. Christians must blame themselves for atheism.
Depending on if you want to read, believe and live the instruction manual from your God, Christians are only identified to themselves and others by a deep contempt for all that is in the world and a deep love for all men, especially those who seek to harm or even kill them. This would disallow any loyalties to states and harming or killing others.

“The greatest cause of atheism today is Christians who profess Christ with their mouths and deny Him with their actions. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.”

>>131548735
>as bad as mine
And this is where the Internet will fail me here, since I can't so you how my personal quality of life is perfectly fine and is on the ups from the looks of things. I'm happy. I have a good paying job that works around my schedule for school, decent GPA, great girlfriend, lives debt free and I'm enjoying my free time reading and watching old shows like Twin Peaks. I'm doing fine.

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>>131523594

>>131547781
>This is my favorite because of how unreasonable the atheist is.
Gods, fairies, sprites, demons, angels, devils, ghosts, deities, and other fictional characters all belong to the realm of irrationality. That's their starting point.

The theist can never prove his gods really exist, so the atheist has nothing to disprove.

>>131549180
>>131549180
We are in complete agreement then. Good talk. To move away from immaterial gifts, the idea of disproportionate material gifts is in reference to Christianity's inherent support to Class Collaboration.

>just now realize you're not the poster who originally had the problem with the the parable

Well fuck.

>>131523004
Atheist forget that bad people use religion as an excuse to get away with terrible things.

>>131548939
>only long term survival matters not my financial fortune or whatever
Then that's a more narrow definition of 'fortune' compared to the broader one I defined. At any rate it is something material.

>I try to frame things in materialistic terms because otherwise it all falls on deaf ears.
Christ came in the flesh and lived among us, for that reason exactly. Men became more and more corrupt and their sense of the divine had atrophied to such an extend they were given material proof of divine things.

>The heavens include everything immaterial including your thoughts and unconscious mind.
Yes to the immaterial. But heaven is part of eternal creation, only the eternal part of men goes there if he has one. Or thoughts are not eternal as they come and go into our minds, so I am not sure if they will go there. Perhaps only as far as they reflect the eternal.

>>131549707

Save it. I know that "new atheists" like to conflate atheism with agnosticism in order to protect themselves from also sharing a burden of proof when they make the claim that God does not exist but that only works online. I strongly suggest you read this thread. It will make you a better atheist.

https://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/2za4ez/vacuous_truths_and_shoe_atheism/cph4498/?context=3&st=j4g0c8wp&sh=2f84eaae

>>131547781
>God is not in nature so we couldn't possibly give natural evidence
>SEE? NO EVIDENCE NO EVIDENCE
>This is my favorite because of how unreasonable the atheist is

It's hilarious that you think it's the atheist being "unreasonable". The atheist is completely right. You have no evidence.

>God is not in nature so we couldn't possibly give natural evidence

That is just a bullshit excuse. Even in your own fictional debate, you still lose.

Dawkins is a biologist and an atheist - his arguments are based on his specialty. Krauss is an idiot and Nye/Tyson are manufactured PBS intellectuals - in other words, they aren't. You may want to look to Hitchens or Harris for some deeper insight on atheism.

>>131549707
I just defended the legitimacy of theism in my link >>131548699

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>>131533803

>>131523004
Reminder Atheism cannot exist without knowledge of God.

>>131550411

You can only say there's no evidence of God if you restrict the term evidence to mean only direct empirical evidence. There's a term for this belief and it's called scientism and it's self refuting because there's no scientific experiment or empirical evidence to support the assertion that all true beliefs must be validated by the scientific method.

>>131550317
Being an atheist means lacking the believe in a god. Thats all. It's not a claim.

>>131550418
>You may want to look at polemics for insight into atheism
>looking for polemics
>insight into not-theism
>Harris and Hitchens of all people

r/atheism please go, you're being stupid.

>>131550768
Wrong. It requires knowledge of God first.
Atheism is the rejection of God.

>>131550870
That's like saying "not liking apples requires the knowledge of apples". It's an absolute pointless statement.

>>131550870
The prefix a- means not.
Atheism means "not theism".
The issue is people trying to think that atheism is something substantial like naturalism and they don't realize how vague a term they throw around.

>>131547419
only monotheism

>>131523004
What's worse: a war fought in the name of a belief genuinely held by all participants to be true and just, or wars fought in the name of economic or political advantage? The former was the crusades and the latter are the modern wars fought with machinery designed to slaughter as many human beings as possible in an instant

>>131550314
>Perhaps only as far as they reflect the eternal.
This is more the direction I'm getting at. Every thought we have has a 14 billion year "material" history and an infinite heavenly history, our earthly lives and struggles are relevant as a reflection of the divine. What's relevant to us now in this moment is this moment and this life not the eternal heavens. I think God's plan is for us to survive as a species for something great but we have to accept Him.
>He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

>>131551017
That's a horrible analogy and you know it.
The statement stands true because there is no atheist who doesn't have a God to first reject.

This is because it's framed as a sense of identity, and an arrogant one at that.

>>131551089
Semantics.
Besides the fact the very term REQUIRES theism to make any sense makes my point perfectly.

>>131551287
I was born without knowledge of any religion.
I didn't believe in any of it even before i knew about it. I still don't get your point.

>>131550690
>if you restrict the term evidence to mean only direct empirical evidence

Now evidence doesn't mean evidence anymore. How convenient for you. You know you are full of shit when you resort to semantics like a con artist "theologist".

>scientism

Where did you get that garbage? William Lane Craig?

>>131550870
>>131551287
it amazes me how many people who talk about atheism, dont know what it actually is.


A new born baby is an atheist because they do not believe in a god, you are basically questioning how can they not believe in a god without first hearing about a god when the question should be "How the fuck could a baby believe in a god?"

>>131548216
>No, Heisenberg did say that in his speech Scientific and Religious Truth (1974).
No he did not say it in any speech. The reference for the quote comes from a German book that claims he said it, but it does not appear in any of his voluminous works.
[“Der erste Trunk aus dem Becher der Naturwissenschaft macht atheistisch, aber auf dem Grund des Bechers wartet Gott.”] (Heisenberg, as cited in Hildebrand 1988, 10).

>{{{ as cited in Hildebrand 1988 }}}

If you have a recording of that speech, let's hear him say it. Otherwise, I'm going with real history rather than the made up stuff.

>>131538396
Agreed however it has been subverted. "Muh greatest ally" and "turn the other cheek no matter what" etc

>>131545126
Evolution does not explain how life came to be. The theory of evolution exclusively concerns itself with LIVING organisms.

You're thinking of abiogenesis.

>why the fuck are atheist so fucking stupid?

>>131551457
Shifting from God to religion is an attempt at re-framing the discussion.

The fact is if you by were dumped in a forest away from humanity, never had contact with anyone, by some miracle survived. You would develop some kind of primitive belief in God or Gods. Just like every other human ever.

>>131551432
yeah you need theism in there when its the position of not being a theist, its all that it is.

I find it ridicilous we even need a word like atheism, we dont have a word for people who dont believe in astrology.
But you religious people cant understand that not everyone wants to have imaginary friends as adults.

>>131551432
Well yes, the term does. The concept doesn't. Thales doesn't need to know of theism to not know of theism.

>christian makes a good point
Fake

>>131538112

>All powerful beings are incapable of existing outside of logic.

Dude, That's the point, its only logical that they do exist regardless of logic. Because they're all powerful.

>>131551547
Evidence was never always scientific. Theories are scientific as they deal with induction. Theorems don't.

And scientism is a real term for an extreme logical positivism and the one you responded to did use it correctly.

>>131551933
you cant define god into existance, sure you can try but all it does it make you look stupid in the eyes of people who are not stupid.

>>131551602
I used to be atheist so go figure.

A new born baby would eventually develop their own belief in God like every other human before them.

Search your soul and realise the truth.

>>131551214
>A: This is more the direction I'm getting at. Every thought we have has a 14 billion year "material" history and an infinite heavenly history, our earthly lives and struggles are relevant as a reflection of the divine.
>B: What's relevant to us now in this moment is this moment and this life not the eternal heavens. I think God's plan is for us to survive as a species for something great but we have to accept Him.
We're both looking at A, but you come to conclusion B and I to another. We each view this matter through a different lens. And therein lies the difficulty of explaining, since it's more of an inner orientation: looking at the material through the material or the transcendent.

>>131548699
Very nice, thanks!

>>131550317
>Save it. I know that "new atheists" like to conflate atheism with agnosticism in order to protect themselves from also sharing a burden of proof when they make the claim that God does not exist
You didn't read my post. I never made the claim that "god doesn't exist". I did say that belief in supernatural beings is irrational, just as the character are themselves.

>I strongly suggest you read this thread.
I can hardly believe you're shilling a plebbit thread on /pol/. It's gutsy.

>It will make you a better atheist.
Non-believers do not come in superlative shades.

>>131551799
>Shifting from God to religion is an attempt at re-framing the discussion.
No it's not it was just to make the point that i didn't just not believe in your god but in none.
My point still stands if you substitute god(s) for religions.
>You would develop some kind of primitive belief in God or Gods.
You're talking out of your ass.

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>>131552081

Without god there's no objective definition of anything and its post modernistic, your point inevitably doesn't hold any weight because there is no axiom to establish a solid deductive argument on.

I didn't try to define god into existence, I logically implicated that the only way god could exist is outside of logic since the definition of all powerful means no holds barred.

As for your later half of that comment I'm going to laugh really hard at the

>/Pol/ isn't stupid

Because they definitely are half the time, they fucking bite the bait threads everytime.

>>131533871
Let's forget all those killed under communism.

>>131551761
It explains how life came to be at it's present state. Otherwise there would be no explanation for how single celled organisms became what they are today. While what you say about abiogenesis is true, it is not the point I wanted to make. All I was doing by mentioning evolution was showing those who would care to read why Atheists are not inherently Communists.
In short, you missed the entire point of that post.

>>131551799
>You would develop some kind of primitive belief in God or Gods. Just like every other human ever.

Bullshit. Even your fellow theists admit that it has to be indoctrinated.

"Give me a child for for his first seven years and I'll give you the man."

Jesuit saying.

"Give me a child" Catholic priests can't help but be creepy old men.

>>131549435
>some Christians happen to be assholes.
wew lad. if this is what you base your belief system on I feel bad for you.

>>131551808
>imaginary friends
Goes to show your complete straw manning of spirituality. I suggest you search deeper.
Examine the works of Socrates and the other metaphysics students.

>don't believe in astrology
You use an example which highlights my point yet are still blind to it. It's because the human mind is designed for a belief in a higher abstract, the purest form being God.

To reject that and fill it with other ideologies is the true imaginary friends.

>>131552170
so you were an atheist because you were angry at god or something?

a newborn baby does not believe in a god and only starts to believe in a god if indoctrinated, not once have i seen atheist parents raise a christian child.

Search your brain and realise the truth.

>>131523004
20th century wars were fought for
the pseudo-religious quest for economic dominance
aka "freedom", "american way of life".
The argument is framed such that economic
values are automatically assumed to be
superior to spiritual since that is what the
majority accept currently.
Probably there is a long term pole shift happening between spiritual and materialistic values.

>>131552260

>Humanity has no technological or scientific understanding of the questions they asked themselves of why they're even here and instead naturally begin to suspect that some great force (LOGICALLY AND RATIONALLY UNDERSTANDABLE MIND YOU) may have caused this and begin to research this.

You guys refuse to admit that the only reason why we've come this far is to either disprove or prove the existence of god, whether or not he exists. Without necessity there is no sextant or constellations on the ship of invention.

>>131542490
>AD 632 -- Muhammad’s death.

>AD 635 -- Christian Damascas fell to invading Muslims.

>AD 636 -- Christian Antioch fell to invading Muslims.

>AD 638 -- Christian Jerusalem,and later Alexandria,fell to invading Muslims.

>AD 650 -- Muslim armies reached Cilicia and Caesarea of Cappodocia. In the same period Muslim forces carried out raids on Cyprus, Rhodes, Crete and Sicily, carrying off thousands of Christian slaves.

>AD 668 -- Muslim armies laid siege to Constantinople. They were repulsed.

>AD 711 -- Muslim armies invaded Spain. By AD 715 they had conquered most of Spain.

>AD 717 -- Muslim armies again laid siege to Constantinople. Again repulsed.

>AD 732 -- Muslim armies invaded France. Charles Martel stopped them at Tours.

>AD 792 -- The Muslim ruler of Spain, Hisham, called for a new invasion of France. An international Islamic crusade was assembled, and was repulsed by the French.

>AD 827 -- Muslim warriors invaded Italy and Sicily, terrorised monks,and raped nuns. Sicily was held by Muslims until AD 1091.

>AD 846 -- Muslim armies reached Rome, where they forced the Pope to pay them tribute.

>AD 848 -- France was again invaded by Muslims. And again repulsed.

>AD 1059 -- Pope Urban II launched the FIRST Crusade.

Now Fuck You!

Oh so now im the one making strawmans when you demand atheism is something else than what atheists themselves tell you it is?

Alright then, cool *walks away backwards*

>>131552744
>the only reason why we've come this far
The only reason we've come this far is because survival and improvement of our living conditions are hardwired in our brains by millions of years of evolution.

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>>131528239
>everyone but me is le retard

>>131552374
There seems to be a whole lot of shit without god.
>I logically implicated that the only way god could exist is outside of logic
and because it makes no sense we can conclude he propably doesnt exist or atleast use logic and finally realise we have 0 reason to believe in such a thing.

>>131523004

Because atheism is more about hating Christians than it is about not believing in God. Notice how they never mention nor challenge Muslims, Buddhist, Hindus.

>>131551829
As I said, semantics.

The reality is every modern day self proclaimed atheist is rejecting God. There is no disputing this fact. I suggest because they get their version of straw God largely from the media, who who would want to sow such belief?

One eventually develops a sense of spirituality and this naturally leads to God or some form of it. It's the way we have evolved.
To reject it is merely a struggle of identity.

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>>131552907

Post modernism robs you of any logical reason to survive, There's no truth no certainty and no point.

There's a reason why nihilism has stagnated the humanties and ultimately has burdened the acceleration of technology as poe's law is slowing down, not speeding up.

Evolution doesn't fucking account for a consciousness and our consciousness makes us irrational. So explain to me why the fuck I should justify our existence, if we do really stupid fucking shit all the time that completely contradicts the objective of survival?

>>131523004
literally every single militant athiest I've met has gone to catholic school. What the fuck goes on there and why does it make people into godless douchebags? Is it just spoiled shits getting their ego hurt by nuns with rulers?

>>131523182

fpbp

>>131552374
>Without god there's no objective definition of anything
Incorrect. Through evidence, observation of the universe, and rationalization, we can conclude objective definitions about many things. For instance, we know that murder of innocents is bad because it takes productive citizens out of the community for little to no gain in return. However, should they be attacking you, then there is no problem with killing them. After all, they started it (meaning they are guilty) and at least one productive citizen would be killed either way.
Similarly, since it has been shown how overeating has many negative effects (both in regards to health and finances) it is objectively bad. However, how bad depends on the amount over eaten and the abundance of the material in society, as well as several other factors.
Of course this cannot cover everything, and there could be debate over the correct implementation of these morals, but that is to be expected. For while you claim atheists (by which you mean liberals) have no objective definition of anything, religion (particularly Christianity and Islam) has the exact opposite problem; they deal in nothing but objectiveness and absolutes (as seen in their firm belief in God, the ferocity of their punishments, their dualistic afterlife that leaves little room for people who weren't that bad, and more.)
In short, you are wrong.

>>131552180
The most valid criticism of Christianity is Nietzsche's accusation of it being a slave morality that subjects people with the promise of an eternal afterlife. That kind of worldview that rejects life will eventually lead to the destruction of all life. People were already getting confused into that worldview when Jesus did the sermon on the mount and He is quite clear on His position in Mark 12:27 quoted in my last post.

Your "self", the immaterial influences that form your thoughts was here before your flesh and will be here when your flesh rots but your consciousness and God given free will are not eternal.

>>131551695
It doesn't appear in any of his books, it appears in a speech he did for the Romano Guardini prize in 1974. Literally no one ever claimed it was in his books.

I can't find a transcript but he did win the prize and did it before a Catholic committee so I'm not sure where you get off with the claim

>>131552260
Consider for the moment that the vast majority of all humanity has held spiritual and theist beliefs throughout all of human history.
>You're talking out of your ass.
No friendo. I think you are the one who is blind.
I pray for you.

>>131534327

lol, wat?

The Romans were greatly ahead of their time, but more advanced than the Renaissance? Are you high?

>>131552511
You speak of churches and refined belief but belief in God is as natural as learning to walk. It is atheism which has to be indoctrinated mate.

>>131552667
I converted to Protestantism as an adult after being raised in an atheist household. It's quite simply the most logical and complete explanation of how things came to be.

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>>131553406

Empiricist, get the ever loving fuck away from this post modernist vibe you're giving me,

>Incorrect. Through evidence, observation of the universe, and rationalization, we can conclude objective definitions about many things

NOTHING CAN BE DEDUCED. You can perceive with the senses in hard science but you can actually justify why its there, you just explain it with a definition and then imply and assume that's all there is to it. Infinite Regression is the only possible explanation without god and its illogical either way. So what I've been trying to say is, whether or not you can infer, deduce or implicate a observation, it is in now way shape or form, a fact. It's a Theory with an argument that leads to other observations. What you just said at the begging sounded like empiricism if you actually believed in god.

We spell pain with moral connotation, and that implicates good and evil, you can't have good without evil and you can't have either without a moral law, and that moral law has to come from somewhere.

>>131553188
>robs you of any logical reason to survive
There is no reason to survive besides the biological one of procreation.
>Evolution doesn't fucking account for a consciousnes
Conciousness is a huge advantage, it's what made us the prevalent species on the planet.
>Consider for the moment that the vast majority of all humanity has held spiritual and theist beliefs throughout all of human history.
Which all were vastly different and contradicted each other.
Quite interesting how more and more humans stop believing in god the moment we have any half decent explanation for our existance.

>>131551602
>A new born baby is an atheist because they do not believe in a god
No, a new born baby is no more an atheist than a dog or a rock. There most be a concept of God rejected by the mind in order to be an atheist.

>>131554185

Procreation can be ignored.
Meaning that there's a will to resist it.
Meaning there is a choice

Do you not understand that our consciousness does not make us an animal. We're clearly something else.

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>>131523004
It's a retarded argument to go to the crusades... I'm an atheist but at least Christianity has gone through reformations and ended up mostly harmless. I wouldn't even waste energy debating a Evangelical today, there are bigger religious fish to fry... In fact one where a modern crusade would be welcome. If the pope called a crusade, I'd convert immediately. Too bad he's a Muslim loving cuckmeistro.

>>131531560
The Bible is just there to hear about the stories of God's prophets and his son. It isn't the only prove of Gid's existence.

But anyways you just keep continuing to believe that you're a literal fisfrog

>>131552667
I was a product of the times. The media slams us with indoctrination and the young mind eats it up with an arrogance rarely matched throughout other parts of ones life.

>Atheist parents (living in a society founded on Christian beliefs and values) indoctrinate their kids in atheism.
Seems legit.

The one argument you could make is for the evolution of belief. i.e. cannablising the good parts of religion (belief systems etc). But this is flawed for several reasons.

That said, I think a modernised belief system could be useful. But it would still be founded on the bible (in the west) so it's a moot point in a lot of sense.

>>131523004
>>Watching a debate between atheist and Christian intellectuals
>intellectuals
there's your fuckin' problem

>>131523004
>Christians
>Making a good argument about God.

It's like
>Atheists
>Making a good argument about socialism.

>>131554185
>the moment we have any half decent explanation for our existance

which is?

>>131523004
>I'm gonna invent something that never happened and make my whole argument arround that
>Also gonna label all X groups based on my fake story

>Why do X are so stupid loloololol111!!!

>>131553427
Nietzsche's view is very limited to his own Lutheran/Calvinist upbringing. His reading of classical Christians are known as being poor and philosophers such as Max Scheler.

>>131523004
>But muh crusades
What about them? I am convinced that they don't even know what the crusades were.

>>131532858
>not a single Christian does this
Based burger education

>>131533803
Yeah big government, sucks, don't it?

>>131531560
yaaaaaaas preach !

>>131554185

>>131554185

As for the consciousness comment, you and I both know that humanity is going to kill itself.

That's why there's a need for god. There's no way around this, and Nihilism or no nihilism that still doesn't mean happy life loving opposites can't go to nuclear war.

That's irrational, That's illogical, that nullifies any pro to our consciousness as it essentially endangers the species as a whole. We're a threat to ourselves. Do you not understand that completely separates us from animals?

>>131546688
This

>>131553219
I am catholic. Though I do fear sometimes the 3rd revelation of Fatima is Catholicism ends in satanism. The 100 year anniversary this year may shed some light on it all I guess.

The other theory is the infiltration of satanist jews into the church are bringing it down from the inside.

>>131554231
dogs and rocks cant believe in a god either so you are correct when you say they are atheists.

Lets take the example you laughed at earlier.
Now i didnt like apples, i would not need to taste an apple to not like apples, but i would need to taste an apple to know that i dont like apples.

Just like a baby, a dog or a rock cant believe in a god, but for them to realise they dont believe in a god they would have to first hear about a god, but they cant.

Do you believe in russell's teapot? (look it up if you dont know what im talking about)

>>131552633
>Examine the works of Socrates and the other metaphysics students.
Excellent starting point and not too inaccessible, if you start with Plato/Socrates.

>>131552684
Yes, the idol of power (economic or political) veils itself under religion.

>>131553427
>The most valid criticism of Christianity is Nietzsche's accusation of it being a slave morality that subjects people with the promise of an eternal afterlife. That kind of worldview that rejects life will eventually lead to the destruction of all life. People were already getting confused into that worldview when Jesus did the sermon on the mount and He is quite clear on His position in Mark 12:27 quoted in my last post.
Nietzsche had some good remarks on (Protestant) Christians, in whose vicinity he lived. I've only read Anti-Christ, but I've heard that Nietzsche himself respected Christ very much.

The dilemma you sketch gets more urgent with revelations such as "My kingdom is not of this world", leading to the idea that Christians should abandon this world altogether. This is one of the earliest heresies to come into existence and was vehemently combated by the various church fathers. Christians aren´t supposed to disregard material things altogether but are to make it mirror the divine and eternal world, imho.

Anyways, it's bed time soon, good night anon!

>>131531560
you're defining god wrong. He's not some anthropomorphic man in the sky. That's athiest propaganda. It takes time for you to develop an accurate conception of what it is that people call "god" but when you find it you'll know.

>>131554873

>Trying to negate a claim and claiming to know what god is.

This is a trap dude, you don't respond to it because its what's known as ''blasphemy bait fallacy''

>>131554329
>We're clearly something else.
Why does that matter in a discussion about god being real or not?
And in my opinion we're still animals, we're just the most intelligent ones but that really depends on the definition of animal.
If we wouldn't have been the first intelligent ones some other species might have been.
>>131554501
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=why+do+humans+exist
>>131554794
Why can't we be intelligent enough not to kill ourselves without the believe in a god?

>>131553163
I do, as well as many others (even this Dawkins fellow, who is otherwise a liberal.) Even so, most arguments aimed at Christianity can be applied to Islam.
Buddhism is bro-tier, and is otherwise chill compared to the Semite religions.
Hindus stick to their own little corner of the world, as do Shintos, so their alright.

Part of the reason why Christianity is the main target, I think, is because of the influence and iron grip it has had over Western Civilization for the better part of the year, and has enjoyed quite a spot of unrivaled, unchallenged political power in that time. Of course this can lead to quite a bit of corruption, most often cited is the recent molestation cases, but that is only the most recent case of the corruption of the Church (and yes, I know it's only the Catholic Church, but that will be explained later.)
In the dark ages/renaissance, the Catholic church was notorious for the act of simony, charging money for the services of the church. Naturally, since many of the services of the church are supposed to save the soul of the believer, to charge money for them is to keep many people out of the kingdom of heaven. Another, related crime would be the selling of indulgences, letters of forgiveness of sin from the pope. Such a thing not only let the rich indulge in vice as they please, but also sell vice to the wider world, much in the same way pornography and fast food has in the modern world. Such a thing goes against the teachings of the Christian church for several obvious reasons, chief of which is the greed exhibited by the supposed men of the cloth.
Speaking of chief, the papacy has been seen as quite a spot of corruption, with the pope having almost complete power over much of Europe. There have been many corrupt popes because of this, at the time, unquestionable authority, and I cannot name them of the top of my head. I'll post a link when I can find one.
(1/2)

>>131553406
>productive citizen
So you condone euthanizing all non-productive members of society including the disabled and elderly?

A trained dog being of more use to a crippled human, would you save the dog or the human?

Such reductionist thinking leads to dark places friendo.

>>131533871
brand based consumerism has lead to millions of deaths and is a direct offshoot of atheism

>>131555042
I asked for your explanation. Like other atheists, I presume you have none.

>>131533871
>communism victim's
>Hitler

'But Hitler was Christian Anon'
Hitler was raised Catholic until he himself renowned his faith at the age of 17, and guess what? He didn't start his own political party at the age of 17.

>>131555182
saying anything is caused by atheism is fucking stupid.
atheism isnt a belief system.
>but they believe all kinds of things
of course, but not because of atheism

>>131554873
>atheist propaganda
No, it's an artistic view that Protestants adopted philosophically. The view is called Theistic Personalism. As opposed to Classical Theism, which is what Christianity classically held and is still held in Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and Oriental Christianity. Atheists just reference that view as they are used to Protestantism and it's simplistic enough for them to grasp.

You're right otherwise.

>>131555042

Separation from animals justifies our moral connotations, and like I said before our morals come from somewhere else, there is no logical reason for the consciousness to adhere to morals when it has a choice.

>Why can't we be intelligent enough not to kill ourselves without the believe in a god?

Because we have no moral restraint to check our ethics and without a integral system to self check ourselves we act on impulse (Like animals) and do stupid shit. Without a structured system, we cannot function beyond animalistic synapses. The Consciousness gives us a choice, between the bodies subconscious intelligence and perspective intelligence.

>>131555265
Ok, we're here because some time long ago there was nothing but atoms, those formed more stable molecules which formed bigger molecules by chance and some of those tended to reproduce themselves. From there they formed simple organisms which all went exting immediatly besides those that could reproduce. Which leads to evolution. Voila humans.