Does he actually believe in God? Every time someone asks him

If you've studied Jung and comparative religion… what he states about the meaning of God (™) is about right in my estimation.
If you expect a bearded dude in the clouds… you're delusional.

>>131336437
he's having trouble reconciling scientific knowledge with a drilled in conception that the faithless are bad people.

His argument literally begins with "Religious people believe nonsense without evidence but atheists forgot there's more than one kind of truth"

>>131336603
and if you contrive the nature of knowledge to justify calling a tautological concept "God" just so you can keep saying "I believe in good" You're delusional AND a liar.

>>131336603
This, desu. Brainlets can't in2theology.

>>131336437
You're supposed to read this sarcastically, genius.

I like this man.

>>131336437

He tries to position belief in God as rational by redefining it as a non-literal thing. A lot of smart people who self-identify as Christians do this.

>>131336997
of course. It takes a lot of brain power to go through those hoops. But when you rationalize beleif in god as merely the acknowledgement that some such other thing exists. Then you are also acknowledging that god doesn't exist in any important capacity, and all of the important affects of god dont exist

prayer
after life
divine revelation

He's agnostic.

>>131336621
So basically don't he's telling atheists "dont throw the baby away with the bathwater?"
>>131337278
so he doesn't believe in God then.

>>131337875
except there is no baby or bathwater, and what you're throwing away is falsehoods. He is getting worked up about something that has nothing to do with the actual belief in god, but for which believing in god is a psychological shortcut to figure out. That right and wrong can be objective and the world is wondrous.

And no. I wouldnt say he believes in god. The moment he gets epistomological he's admitting god isnt real in the same way any other real thing is. You don't start trying to pull the rug on the very nature of reality when we're talking about whether or not pro wrestling is real.

>>131338398
but God exist, you are wrong here sry

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>>131336437
SAGE!

>>131336437
If you listen to jordan peterson you'll understand his philosophies.
Hes a big fan of Neitzche
He understand IQ in depth and talks about its importance a lot, How it affects your behavior patterns, how it effects your relationships, and how it affects your wealth generation.
He believe deeply in meritocracy

>Natures law
>NatSoc

Hes NatSoc he just doesn't know it

>>131338755
great. I'm sure your explanations of natural phenomenon based on this theory will paved the way for thousands of innovations which will make our world a better place.

>>131339170
the problem is not religious people but the people who want to ignore religion, just look at liberals, you are part of the problem

>>131339170

>Le I fucking love science meme
You can say the same thing about scientism. The enlightenment gave us the degenerate world we currently live in.

>>131336437
>Does he actually believe in God?
he claims to be Christian, but it's doubtful he really is

he would never say he actually believes Jesus Christ rose from the dead

he's only Christian in the sense that he believes it's the best moral guide man has, aka not actually Christian

>>131339051
>Natures law
>NatSoc

I don't see the correlation. "natural law" is extremely broad, can be found in greek philosophy and Christianity.

>>131336437
If god is real why doesn't he stop me from jacking it RIGHT NOW?

>>131339051

I bet he is a racial realist deep down but can't admit it or he'll get fired

>>131339439
huh? what are you saying im saying?
>>131339388
how am i ignoring religion? I just dont believe in god.

>>131339555
because you have free will

>>131336437
He's a noncommittal pussy.
He basically thinks the bible is just a self-help guide and a collection of archetypal stories, he doesn't believe in a supernatural reality, doesn't think Jesus is a literal savior & redeemer, etc.

>>131339555
cause that's your choice, you have free will
if you don't accept Christ you are going to be judged by what you have done here

>I just dont believe in god
well you are wrong

>>131339555
He likes to watch.

>>131336437
He's a dumb retard who doesn't give philosophical questions the rigour they deserve. He approaches them from the perspective of a psychiatrist first and foremost. He doesn't really grapple with the philosophical concept of God dealt with by people like Aristotle, Aquinas, Spinoza or Wittgenstein, though he may have some insightful things to say about the psychological and sociological influence of the concept. But he has no conviction in this area, he's a fence sitter and an obscurantist. He refuses to give a clear answer because he doesn't have one. He's a poseur and a charlatan who sullies the name of theology, orthodoxy and religious faith.

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>>131336437
He peddles shit like how the person of Jesus Christ is based on Horus, or the Mithras Cult. Loads of hot air, this guy's a fucking idiot.

>>131339685
>well you are wrong
yeah you already made this play, and I said >>131339170
to which you said I'm ignoring religion, and when challenged to explain what that means and how im doing it you cycled back to your attempt at some kind of "u mad" of theism.

>>131339523
I'm referring to Darwinism, I probably should of been more informative when i typed up my post but most of the time i get lazy because its a very in depth thing, Natures law to me at least general refers to Darwinism survival of the fittest.
Fittest would usually be the people with the highest IQ. NatSoc ideology was heavily based around this (darwinism) I could provide some links but if you do some deep research you'll figure this out just fine.

Most people that deeply believe in this concept are closer to NatSoc ideology than they know. but of course a large portion of the world think NatSoc is just "SUPER MASTER WHITE RACE" rubbish

>>131336437
Does he? Probably

Does he argue anything that Sam Harris would have a problem with? (Supernatural or superstitious)

No. He won the Olympic Gold Medal for Mental Gymnastics in believing in and arguing for Christianity in a purely utilitarian, pragmatic, and non-superstitious way. So props to him for that.

>>131336437

Does fapping to models or girls on instagram count as "pornography"?

Or is he referring strictly to PornHub, RedTube, etc..

>>131336437
I would say he believes in religion which we've been trying to explain the atheist community for a decade but they won't hear it so we just make Fedora memes

>>131340032
but that's true

>>131340090
except socialism undermines natural selection by providing for people who dont contribute and taking away from people who do.

>>131336437
He's telling you that religion has value as a social technology, which makes the question irrelevant.

You need a religion that provides you societal benefits or you and everyone around you suffers and dies. Clean your room.

>>131339606
Probably I mean he has done a large amount of research on IQ, He is a physiologist after all. But he came close to being fired and losing his 6 figure job because he refused to call some teenage bimbo "they". That would put some fear in me no doubt as well

>>131336437
inAfter all these buttblasted christ cucks don't even realize that THEY are the people Peterson is talking about, who are guided by a handbook for morals. LITERALLY NOT AN ARGUMENT FOR TRUTH.

>>131340254
/thread

>>131340199
it doesnt really matter if the fictional story of jesus is based on another fictional story. If you already believe it, you're not going to be persuaded by those facts.

>>131340062
religion has paved all our history as far as we are now, stupid people are pushing this 'science' meme and ruining everything, do you think it's a coincidence?

>>131340199
it's not true and you're as retarded as he is lol

>>131340254
In other words he wants to have his cake and eat it too. Read Schopenhauer's essays on religion if you want an insightful exploration of this topic. I agree with Schopenhauer's statement that once the literal reading is lost, the allegorical truth of the text loses its power also. Peterson reads a lot of Nietzsche but seems not to really grapple with the death of God.

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>>131336437

> itt: Babby brainlets who did their first semester of philosophy and now think they are intellectually equal to a professor with several decades of academic experience.

>>131340226
And the 3rd Reich had the answer to that.
Mandatory hard labor (not in a slavery sense) but in a work ethic sense, The state didn't give out Free gibz this is outlined quite well in there program.

You had a right TO WORK meaning you had a right through the state to EARN your own money. NatSoc had no free gibz

Also they were heavily in favor of eugenics not in a twisted dr. jeckels way but they believed people with Low IQ's should of been sterilized so they couldn't reproduce more children.

Mind you thing: They wouldn't kill you, they would sterilize you. and they would allow you to adopt children from other families that spawned children with high IQs

>>131340254
Well it fails to make the question irrelevant. Whatever value religion A brings is inferior to the value religion A - lies + truth would bring. The truth has ubiquitous value. And more informaiton is always better.

What we're squabbling about is whether lies designed to be good for us are better than the truth. Well which would you rather? I think truth is always better because basing your decisions on the most accurate information will lead you to good conclusions. Maybe a lie "for-your-own-good" could trick you into doing good things most of the time, but somewhere the lie will fail to do its job.

>>131336437
I think he doesn't view himself as an evangelist, his main goal is not to win souls for Christ. His message is more about how society has gotten off course and how it's important to correct that. He wants his message to be applicable to people of all religions. If he starts to inject Christianity it could cause a distraction. Even Christians can't agree on everything. Just listen to his first interview with Joe Rogan, rogan started going off about the hatefulness off Christianity. Anyway that's my opinion why he tries to be vague about his beliefs. CS Lewis said something to the effect of how the modern man doesn't even realize they need to be saved. I think Peterson's goal is to show people that they need to be saved and to help them with a framework for that journey.

>>131340166
Yes it does anon you must stop masturbating, or at least stop masturbating to external stimulus and limit it to once per week at MAX

>>131340500
Sorry if that offends your view about the bible and christianity.
Basically all myths and legends have been recycled and reused since before recorded history.

>>131340367
and stone working paved the way for metal working. And feudalism paved the way for capitalism. So what?

>>131340600
>he went to school so he must be right
this attitude is the worst, just because some guy has 20 papers to his name denoting how smart he is isn't gonna stop him from burning in hell

>>131340790
What exactly about Jesus Christ do you think was recycled?

>>131340508
He talks about it all the time, science disproves religious teachings that were used to explain the what.

But the purpose of religion is controlling human behavior and actions, religion is not about teaching about the work.

Religion can teach you how to be a human who lives among other humans and very little else. Science has obsoleted the rest.

>>131340600
sorry. When someone tries to justify belief in god it doesn't take a lot to tear them down. That's why preteens are able to hold up to serious theologians.

he said in a video that he acts as if God as real

He's said that the best way he can put it is that he acts as though God exists

>>131336437
He may be like me, I don't actually believe in a literal divine creature out there in the cosmos.

I believe God is this 'thing' in the brain cobbled together from the better parts of our various complex modules, much like the subconscious.
We all have it, so it's easy for us to come to a loose consensus on spiritual matters in various groups.

>>131336437
Peterson believes whatever he needs to to feed his ego and get attention

>>131340174
Pretty much this. He's a psychologist showing the importance of Christianity in the west. Athetits don't understand that their nihilistic beliefs turns the world to shit.

>>131340669
Regardless of the function of what Peterson preaches, atheists are still pussies and fag enablers who's behavior generally fosters degeneracy.

>>131340500
How can you say that when there is direct objective evidence contradicting you- oh that's right you're a christcuck.

>>131340858
Personified son of God
Reincarnation
Most of his teachings and philosophy

>>131340226
>>131340226
Also if you are interested in learning something new. Heres a very good video for you, Its probably one of the most accurate videos on NatSoc youtube currently has.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJ8bGg4vuM

I highly recommend it, It will clear up alot of misconceptions about NatSoc Ideology

>>131340796
so you are wrong, you are trying to ignore years of study and progress just because you are an edgy teen, your opinion should not care

>>131340669
Communism is an example of replacing religion with "science" as is utilitarianism and a bunch of other philosophies which attempt to create a scientific moral framework. You can included hippie collectives in the scientific godless societies too.

The results have been failures. So until you replicate a scientific moral framework that works better than religion, you should keep religion.

>>131340508
Just ponder this...The lady at my church who provides daycare service for everyone charges $300 a month...The corporate daycare down the street charges 1300 a month and that's just one little thing of many you get from being part of an insular community

Their lone wolf bullshit allows them to get eaten alive by predators

>>131336437
He's pretty much an agnostic atheist.

>>131340973
>Gnosticism
lol

>>131341132
i'd be happy to see it

>>131341135
stolen from who? the Mithras Cult? Horus? Dionysus? Babylon? You can't just name things Jesus did/talk about as a proof that they existed before him.

>>131340649
that sounds ridiculous. Either people are being compelled into the labor which provides for society, in which case yeah that's just slavery to the state like feudalism. Or this mandatory labor exists just to "teach you a lesson" so it's masturbatory.

If I have a right to self determination and free enterprise then there are no free gibs. So nazis are trying to create an illness so they can sell the cure. And they lure you in with standard socialist utopianism, and then answer criticisms by talking about how they'll treat you like shit.
sign
me
the fuck
up

>>131341027
i dont care

>>131336437
>Every time someone asks him he dodges the question

He has stated he believes in a force such as god but he often avoids it when brought up in an argument because it is a strawman. There will never be a logical argument that god exists so people derail religion based upon that concept. Yet nature isn't entirely guided by empirical evidence, we actually have to make guesswork. Take experimental physics, many things happen on a quantum scale that cannot be related to our environment. So at a quantum level you could probably float in the air or phase through your chair but they have to apply a mathematical scale to define what is most likely to happen in our system.

So there is no empirical evidence of god but that doesn't mean you should only dismiss something for the bad. It's like the "christian dark ages" meme people like to bring up. The renaissance happened because we found a shitload of old greek and roman shit. We didn't say "we wuz kangz" we understood that we rediscovered civilisation.

>>131341021
You're right without a form of hierarchy the west has been plundered into chaos. Nietzsche was right about god being dead in the west, and unfortunately it wasn't a good thing and what he predicted is unraveling right in front of us

>>131341263
This was for>>131341021

>>131336603 >>131336749
This. Even an Atheist would accept that Christian theology took a wrong turn some time between Origen Adamantius and Kent Hovind.

>>131340669
what truth do you speak of?

>>131341217
you're lying.
communism replaces god with the state and will immediately abandon science as soon as it seemingly violates marxism. Marxist views on genetics and evolution cause the soviet agricultural authorities to so thoroughly fuck up their jobs that they caused the single greatest mass starvation in human history.

>>131340914
Yikes

>>131341263
What are you trying to say?

>>131341372
Kent Hovind has nothing to do with theology. Karl Barth, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, Liz Anscombe, Ratzinger etc. are contemporary theologians

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>>131341477
whatever man

communism is a replacement religion that has no god and it sucks. don't no true scotsman on this shit. I'm looking forward to your scientifically backed moral system and how you expect it to work. Marxists didn't desire failure of their "perfect" system.

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>>131336437
He does. He obvious does. He believes The Bible is divinely inspired truth.
He evades the question for two reasons:
1, To avoid getting cornered to where he'll have to defend not what he believes, but fight against what the other person THINKS he believes (I experience similar as a Libertarian.)
2, It's nobodies fuckin business but his.

I'm an Atheist myself and I totally respect where he's coming from in that regards.

NOTE: Studied under Peterson, made friends, so I know a bit about how he personally feels about things like that.

>>131341614
>What are you trying to say?
It wasn't for you.....I'm trying to say>>131340174 with some practical dollars and cents

>>131341294
>i'd be happy to see it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5Fel1VKEN8

>>131336997
me_irl

>>131341309
Mandatory labor was put in place to keep people tough and show them the values of hard work. It was meant to keep people from going soft and also provided to the community. And no its not slavery to the state. The system was Both capitalism without banking debts and inflation and it was also socialistic in the sense that when the free market couldn't provide the state would provide but not in the sense of free gibz, It wasn't them just handing you a check and off you go. You had to work and you were paid. The mandatory labor was program that would be a month or so every year and you got paid, so no its not "literally slavery"

They didn't create an illness to provide a cure i have no idea how you got that out of what i said

>>131341263
Churches were the pioneers of charities so I'm not surprised they're not charging high.

>>131341630
Peterson is a fucking ant Marx would step on.

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>>131341755
>i'm not really smart enough to articulate the proof so here's this half hour video that BTFO christianity!!!!

>>131336437
Why is porn bad?

>>131341636
>communism is a replacement religion that has no god and it sucks

>communism replaces god with the state and will immediately abandon science as soon as it seemingly violates marxism

Don't get mad at me when you agree with me.

>>131340026

Theology should be banished from University campuses; it doesn't belong alongside disciplines that have an actual subject matter. Refuse to send your kids to any University that has a gender studies program. Take back academia!

Jesus said 'keep your religion to yourself'.
In that regard, I find him a good Christian.

>>131341755
>he doesnt know quantum phisics is proving God by the day
>he shills 'muh science' anyway
every time

>>131340367
so true, its also no coincidence christians are more right wing

>>131340649
They sterilised people based on physical and profound mental defects, so you would actually make the grade.

>>131341961
What? No he didn't,

Matthew 5:14-15
14You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a basket. Instead, they set it on a lampstand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven

>>131339439
>The enlightenment gave us the degenerate world we currently live in.

Not precisely. The reaction to the enlightenment gave us post-modernism, which gave us the degenerate world we currently live in.

If Kant wasn't such a wanker we wouldn't be in this mess.

>>131341958
People like you never "had" academia in the first place. You're the reason universal literacy was a mistake. Fuckin' android. Prole idiot.

>>131342035
Sure, If it created a better nation in the long run why not.

>>131341961
Kek retard
Stop breathing any time

>>131336437
He's just opposed to the notion being perpetrated by many popular atheist thinkers that belief in God is a bad/dumb thing, he thinks it's human nature, a learned behavior to make life easier. It also would not surprise me if he subscribes to the philosophy that it's a good thing to act as if a God exists, although perhaps not related to any specific religious doctrine

>>131341939
call me when you've got a superior moral system.

I've got one. Social Darwinism, you've got behaviors that make society health and successful and behaviors that cause degeneracy. WOW it ends up looking exactly like most major religion that gives women no rights and discourages sex outside marriage.

>>131341961
fucking ignorant toothpaste. Christianity has evangelism which is literally converting nonbelievers.

>>131341901
all human observable phenomenon are explainable with the standard model of classical physics which is the single most challenged and tested theory in all of science and is the cornerstone of millions (arguably all) innovations that improve human life, and further prove the theory correct.
The standard model explains all human observable phenomonon as the actions of 3 particles of matter and 3 forces. These forces and particles exclude such events from happening like prayer, the afterlife, divine revelation, making the universe by yelling at it, and all other supernatural assertions people have claimed they've experienced or otherwise are real.

Ergo "supernatural" is a synonym for "not real".

>>131342176
ok? Go for it. I'm not interested in engaging on this point.

>>131342106
Post modernism is a reaction to the problems of enlightenment and modernity, yes, but it's not responsible (at least solely or primarily) for the contemporary West's decline. One may have gripes with postmodernism, or with the condition of 'postmodernity', but it is not a catch-all buzz phrase for "what's wrong with the West". Post modernism recognises a lot of the problems of the Enlightenment diagnosed by Nietzsche and echoed on pol

>>131341731
Dude did you actually study under Peterson? that's fucking awesome was he a good professor

>>131341309
>so nazis are trying to create an illness

How exactly did they create poverty and unemployment? Because that's where the right to labor comes in. For society (and it can be argued, for the individual), paid labor is always superior to just handing out free money to the unemployed and/or unwilling

>>131342176
Social Darwinism is diametrically opposed to Christianity, which cherishes the weak and the abandoned, and which recognises the sanctity of all life. Read Pope John Paul II

>>131342329
>These forces and particles exclude such events from happening like prayer, the afterlife, divine revelation, making the universe by yelling at it, and all other supernatural assertions people have claimed they've experienced or otherwise are real

Do you know what the definition of a "miracle" is among many early christian circles was?

Making the impossible, possible, only through the divine power of God.

>>131342558
sounds like, then, that you dont need the socialism! Just a right to free enterprise.

>>131340032
He's brought this up one time and said a heists who post this are dumb.

>>131342110

I find your argumentation compelling. Would poke your gaping psychological sore spot again.

>>131342682
wow, im convinced

>>131342558
Nazis are an illness - a terminal one. Germany caught it and died 10 years later! All the nations around him barely survived either, and his sons East Germany and West Germany were horribly sickly.

>>131342857
Amen, people who worship their own race or their earthly kingdoms and wealth are fools.

>>131341961

Source? I have a verse saying the opposite.

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,


http://biblehub.com/matthew/28-19.htm

>>131342652
OK well the ancient definitions of words are not arguments that those words represent real things that can be observed.

For god to perform a miracle, like create a vision and send a message, he's gotta do all sorts of magic hoohaw behind the scenes, but at the end of the day light enters the eye and is converted to electrochemical pulses interpreted by the brain, and compression waves in the air disturb nerves in the ear which are also interpreted by the brain for the experience of sound.

Now I can't argue about this hoohaw existing or not because it necessarily sits in a place i can't observe, but at some point it crosses over and has to play by our rules or else human beings arent capable of noticing it. Like a high pitched dog whistle or infrared light.
So where's the how and why of this transition from the metaphysical to the physical? Where's the gap in our knowledge where the answer might be?

>>131342914
Satire?

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>>131341731
This, spoke with him on a patreon chat, this exactly.

He publicslly admits to acting as if he believed god existed, and continues the (impossible) task of bridging the faith gap

>>131336437
are you asking about a personal and personified God or an intangible God as a concept or permeating force?

>>131343159
No. Hating other races is anti-christian.

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>>131342329
You need to read up on your CS Lewis. Even Molymeme is sophisticated enough to include it as a real category

>>131343246
So valuing your own people/nation is for fools. mmmmm so if the world was in complete anarchy but everyone was Christians then things would be just fine eh?

>sounds like the biggest pipe dream Ive heard

>>131343233
if we're going to redefine god as something that doesnt matter than I literally stop having an opinion on whether or not it exists. But if you're just doing that so you can continue to speak the words "I believe in god" then i think you're silly.

>>131343471
>So valuing your own people/nation is for fools
Yes. There is no longer Jew nor Greek, your brothers and sisters are those in Christ, not just some people who look like you.

>mmmmm so if the world was in complete anarchy but everyone was Christians then things would be just fine eh?

No? Things wouldn't be fine because things are in Anarchy. Are you autistic?

>>131343081
Where can one intercept prayer and divine influence, hypothetically? We can see the effect praying has on the consciousness, and on the neurology of believers, but we can only assume it is a mechanical cause - we would not have a definite history of the causes and inputs affecting their experience. Forgive me if I'm not making much sense.

Also, there are many processes and phenomena in the universe unknown to us - if a creator God exists they would be both responsible and wholly cognisant of all such phenomena and have a power and understanding of the physical universe far exceeding ours. We were not aware of quantum phenomena until very recently, for instance, and our classical physics is just useful estimation on the human level which breaks down the smaller we get.

>>131343405
it's just a word, and it has as many definitions as it does users. In this context, supernatural is a word to describe things that either cannot exist or cannot be known to exist.

I'm not finished with Maps of Meaning, but I think his definition of "god" has something to do with the idea of an indeterminate future for which you make sacrifices today to "bargain" with the future to treat you well as a result of your sacrifices. This indeterminate aspect of the future, in which things "happen" - some of which you can control through sacrifice today, such as getting a degree, is "god".

It's obviously much more complicated than that, but I'm trying to just generalize what I think his idea of god is.

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>>131336437
Im not sure, a lot of people who are well read in philosophy tend to attribute the word God to "the natural order/laws that govern nature" so they believe in an orderly "designed" universe but they also say its eternal and "has just always been and always will be", so essentially they believe that nothing/no one created the universe and yet somehow everything either "evolved" from plants or whatever TF or that this is just always the way things have been.

This is the best explanation Ive gotten from literally some of the most intelligent people I know so they obviously have some logic behind why they believe it, but to me it seems like there must have been some "thought" that went into it either by a single highly advanced form of intelligence (whatever that could be) or group of "intelligent entities" or some kind of benevolent force because it seems that there is no other explanation for how everything could have come into existence, and support life, and have everything be maintained the way it is up to this day because things are just way too complicated for life to have not been wiped out by now if this is all supposedly an eternally existing construct. I mean just the fact that sun even exists is completely inexplicable by the modern scientific model/laws of thermodynamics and there are plenty of other inconsistencies I could name so I dont understand how anyone could support this nonsense with a straight face. And another point I just remembered that these philosophy purists believe is that this is the only dimension there is and that this is the only life "you" will get, ie there is no soul, etc.

So if anyone knows where this particular brand of metaphysical axioms comes from I would be interested to know because as someone who considers myself a no-nonsense skeptic I have trouble accepting any established paradigms, and this theory seems to be consistent among many of the top philosophers out there.

>>131343576
if your view of God is an old man with a beard then I pity you

>>131342670
You've lost me

>>131341958
Lurk more you fucking moron. Religion is one of the most profound ways to study history that there is.

>>131336747
*tips fedora*

>>131343712
Essentially

>>131336437
>God
I think he does. But he has a different definition of what "God" is relative to what the general public sees as a "God meme".

I remember him saying that for nearly two decades he was tearing himself apart trying to reconcile his religious beliefs with modern, scientific reality, or something like that. I think he's mostly overcome it through his study into philosophy, psychology, anthropology, evolutionary biology, different religions and narrative structure. He's kind of amalgamated them all together into a rationalization of what Dawkins would call "The God Delusion". I think he believes in God in one of the most rational ways possible. He probably thinks that there's no afterlife, or heaven or hell or a bearded man in the sky in the literal sense that cartoons parody and religious people describe. But that the concepts of God the father and heaven and hell and the afterlife are concepts which hold real weight in objective reality.

Kind of like how ancient people used to make sacrifices to God using real animals or grain or even other people. It's still necessary to make sacrifices, but you don't have to act it out in the physical world in the same way they did. You can internalize it and sacrifices beliefs and practices and habits so that you can attain "God's approval". If you sacrifice an addiction to alcohol and perhaps the alcoholic friends you had to "God" then you'll be rewarded. In the same way humans have conceptualized the idea of heaven and hell and even God him/itself FIRST as concrete things then as concepts. We can still have the concepts and "believe" in them by acting them out without carrying the weight of ancient propositions about how the physical world objectively is. Basically it's that science describes how the world is and religion prescribes how you should act in it.

So I'd say he doesn't believe in God the same way that fundamentalists do. He believes in the concept of God.

>>131343851
No one believes that. Fuck off and read a book. You don't understand anything about the concept of God. Stop watching retard e celebs

>>131343712
I like this post

>>131343616
Anarchy means the absence of government
It doesn't mean Chaos. Do a google search
>are you autistic?

>Yes. There is no longer Jew nor Greek, your brothers and sisters are those in Christ, not just some people who look like you.

let me tell you about this thing called human nature and tribalism. Its very real and its hard wired into every human. Its never going away bro. None is uniting now a days because of "muh religion" people are uniting because of race. This is why you have countries lol Korea,Japan,China,Germany, Mexico, Africa. They didn't create these nations because of Religion. It was all tribalism that stemmed very far back and even once these people are pulled out of there home lands how do they reunify? through race IE BLM,

>Pipe dreaming

>>131343800
We have wrongly assumed that the religious way of thought was a primitive method of explaining currently understood phenomenon in a way that was accessible for the primitive man. However, consider that we have not found the heaven above and hell below because we do not know precisely where "above" and "below" might be found.

The ancient greek pantheon might for instant be interpreted as the emotions/personalities that take over humans to accomplish a goal: war, partying, love, etc. Some have suggested that the "taking over" of one that happens in lust for example, is a "god", in that it affects your future (which you cannot know ahead of time, only prepare for).

>>131341841
Or she is close with everyone and she makes a middle-class wage AND it's not run by people looking to make as much money as possible who look at their customers as units

>>131343619
>Where can one intercept prayer and divine influence, hypothetically?
you can't. If you want to find this moment where the metaphysical influences the physical then you have to find a breakage in causality, and there isn't one. The scientific efforts to prove the existance of the supernatural were a massive project that lasted for decades and has basically ceased to exist as it used to. The reason being, that despite looking for proof of ghosts for thousands of year we have found none, but it only took 11 to prove an electron exists. And the electron is so small and insignificant it sometimes doesnt exist. Yeah but apparently ghosts can talk. Whhat's the hold up?

And yeah our knowledge of the universe, in terms of its stuff, is sitting around under 5%. And our classical conceptions of physics don't hold together when we talk about the quantum world.

Now here's where I blow your mind. The position of jupitor, and the way ,vitual particles collapse across the quantum landscape has absolutely nothing to do with literally any thing you can experience with your naked senses, and has nothing to do with anything that happens in your life. So we don't need a 100% understanding of the quantum or cosmic to explain our normal lives. And as far as that scope is concerned we pretty much have it 100% figured out. At this point we're just unifying theories not discovering new things.

>>131341843
Marx was literally a NEET.

>>131343851
my view of god is as a fictional figure.

>>131343616
This is complete bullshit....There is a hierarchy in Christianity and your family comes first

>>131343862
bye!

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>>131344037
pretty strong reaction for an if statement

should take a chill pill m8

>>131344216
>>131343616

And also isreal, and isreal wasn't formed because of "muh religion" the jews look at themselves as a "RACE" so this whole nonsense about people unifying behind "religion" is nonsense. People would rather unify through the form of ideologies than religion. This is why more americans would rather say "Im a socalist" or "im a republican" than "Hey dude im a christian"

>>131344216
>Anarchy means the absence of government
>It doesn't mean Chaos. Do a google search
yeah, no fucking shit
So what's your point exactly? Why are you arguing with me if you believe anarchy is a desireable system?

>let me tell you about this thing called human nature and tribalism. Its very real and its hard wired into every human. Its never going away bro.
yup, being sinful and hateful is hard wired into us. congratulations you've come to the realization that a 3rd century monk did.

you're actually really fucking dumb lol

>>131344476
you're right but your comment is a strawman. The line between "god as gandalf" and "god exists but is indistinguishable from no god" is very broad.

>>131344447
>There is a hierarchy in Christianity and your family comes first

Uh, no, sorry.
Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
>>131344537

>and also israel
i don't give a fuck about israel, are you schizophrenic or something? how old are you exactly?

>>131343891

Do I need to explain to you that the academic study of religion is a discipline with real subject matter, namely the history of human belief systems and their effect on human society and civilization, while Theology is the masturbatory practice of counting angels on pinheads and has no referents in reality? The first one is great; no better way to learn how idiotic religion is than to view it through a critical academic lens. Theology belongs in the same category as Astrology. Lurk more yourself faggot.

He says that the western world was built on christian principles and that its going to shit without them, go figure

>>131344663
sure its a strawman but it concisely illustrates the larger argument of if god is an entity that can be bargained with and has intentions or rather something that is completely enigmatic and can not be understood by a human mind

>>131336437
A smart, philosophical guy like Peterson was probably an agnostic before he hit puberty. More or less impossible to go back to believing in a literal Father Sky when you walk away from faith that young.

>>131338755
t. Muhammed

>>131344858
anyone who believes in a literal sky father is a literal retard

>>131344831
so god can either "matter" or "not matter" and if im going to argue with someone about the existance of this god, and they're tactic is to shave away at gods importance. Then that behavior convinces me they don't believe in god and just want to be able to SAY they do.

>>131336437
From that one interview I remember him saying that God is a foundation, and one that is needed, but no religion itself is a supplement, and that he does believe in a higher power, but that it is most likely something we will never be able to fully comprehend.

Something about humanity and morality and the structure of society, all in lined with a higher power and the power of the idea of that power and the power it has over us as people.

So, in summary, what I think he was getting at is yes, we are not alone, yes, there is more than likely something godlike out there that played a role with us, yet we are left to our own devices and no one form of religion is ever the answer, yet Atheism itself is even less of one.

Seemed a bit convoluted, but I guess I see where he is coming from.

>>131344360
>The scientific efforts to prove the existance of the supernatural were a massive project that lasted for decades and has basically ceased to exist as it used to
Uh, anon? I've not heard of this. Also, an objection might be that one can't measure metaphysical phenomena with physical instruments. The influence of God will occur with physical things, but if God is immanent there is no need for him to "breach" through some portal from one world to the next, the physical world is already within his domain, if not within him itself. You take the opaque separation of the "worlds" for granted - as if the metaphysical world is simply another kind of physical reality separated from us, rather than something both transcendent and immanent that may already be affecting the physical world.

>Yeah but apparently ghosts can talk. Whhat's the hold up?
For the sake of argument, Christianity doesn't believe in ghosts. That's more of a folk legend sort of superstition.

Your last paragraph is cool, I wasn't shitting on the utility of classical physics, I was just saying that there are obviously large gaps in our understanding. Though I always marvel at how much we have learned, and have been able to learn. The fact that a creature, through the crude sieves of natural selection, could develop the tools that allow it to be capable of developing such an abstract understanding of the reality it inhabits is beguiling.

>>131344379
His literary output and influence distinguish him. Being a NEET is not really a mark of shame if you are considered to have the talent to find a patron to fund you.

I'm not a Marxist or a lefty but Peterson barely even penetrates Marx's epidermis, for all his histrionic wailing and slashing.

>>131344710
But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Being a cuck is forbidden sorry mate

>>131344553
>yeah, no fucking shit
>So what's your point exactly? Why are you arguing with me if you believe anarchy is a desireable system?
Your super retarded dude, I never argued with you about anarchy being a desirable system

You just fucking said people that value a nation are fools, without a nation you have anarchy. then you said anarchy meant everyone would be in chaos when it means just the absence of government. I'm not arguing its a desirable system ITS NOT lol you were dumb dumb "as long as we have Christianity valuing a nation is dumb"

>Holy shit kid you're on some gold fish chimp memory skills

>yup, being sinful and hateful is hard wired into us. congratulations you've come to the realization that a 3rd century monk did.

I never said the topic was about how religion IE christianity unify s people into a functional society.

that I said tribalism is what draws us together and unifies us. and tribalism is and unity are meat through common visual features. RACE

There are thousands upon thousands of studies that confirm this, Even history confirms this over and over and over again.

>YOU"RE actually really really really really fucking dumb lol

>>131341961

you're a literal retard.

what he says is literally don't do religious bullshit as an act to be admired by others.

>>131336437
HE LITERALLY BELIEVES IN MAGIC AND SUPER POWERS

WATCH HIS TRANSLIMINAL INTERVIEW

>>131344710
Fucking moron that larps as being smart.
Done

>>131341996
there is so much contradiction in this retarded post I don't know where to start

>>131345005
I havent made any claims on what god is since its impossible to make a concrete statement of fact regardless if you believe or not.

God as a sociological phenomena certainly exists since people believe in the God concept in many ways and religious angles. Quibbling over what someone believes god is is ultimately unproductive as no matter what you believe there is no quantifiable proof for your claims other than constructs.

It matters because billions of people believe in God or Gods in one way or another which affects their real world actions. It also can not matter in some peoples views because it is a concept that inherently cant be proven.

>>131345401
Oh I get it, you don't know what the word "nation" means. lol

>>131345281
>I'm not a Marxist or a lefty but Peterson barely even penetrates Marx's epidermis, for all his histrionic wailing and slashing.

he has never directly addressed Marx at all, or his actual works. he mostly just uses marxism, the concept as a slur, because of the modern sjw who twist the egalitarian notion of society for their own purposes

>>131341843
Wtf retarded Aussie

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>>131336437
Does he have any lectures on Jung? I keep hearing his name drop but I barely know anything about him or his philosophy.

also tfw no gf

>>131344261
Im talking about The God that created this dimension, which is the point because that would bring us to the question of why do we exist in the first place, and that is the crux of the issue of everything Jordan Peterson is doing. The 2 possibilities (basically what creates the right vs left paradigm) being either God exists and created the universe for a purpose and hence every thought/action we take has consequences, or the big bang/nothing created the universe and we should either do whatever we want or basically follow Nietzsche/Jung/etcs idea that man must create his own meaning and rise above his primitive nature for the betterment of mankind.

>>131345997
maps of meaning is pretty jungian

>>131345281
>I've not heard of this.
because whenever you've heard about it it's described as "idiot scientists thought you could kill rats with psychic powers and wasted a billion dollars researching it"
And if you're telling me that the metaphysical cannot be measured by the physical then I'm telling you that metaphysical things may as well not exist then. If god makes a donkey talk, can I record what they say with a casette recorder? Why not? Does the ovice of the donkey not create sound waves? then how do we hear it with our ears? Is the donkey psychic? What/where are the sense organs in humans for detecting psychic communication? Why can't we build a physical aparatus that can also do that? It's nonsense, and thats why no one wastes their time justifying their religion in scientific terms. Even the guy who prompted me to explain this point has gotten bored of it and is now arguing subjective topics. There is no evidence for god. there is only evidence for not god. Just stop lying about it.

And by "christianity" what do you mean? because I know for a fact dozens of christians ive met believe in ghosts, and I can reasonably assume most people I meet, and dont ask, are christian and a nontrivial portion of them believe in ghosts, or angels, or crying statues, or healing rivers, or the power of prayer, or w/e. It doesn't matter, because we've all quietly created a category of phenomenon and we've shoved all these seemingly disparate things together. And even though ghosts, and astral projection dont have anything to do with each other, they, and all the other topics, have one thing in common. Admitting what that thing is, is the only thing I'm advocating for.

>>131343800
I can easily boil down any and all beliefs in god to a lack of knowledge and a desperate attempt to explain the unexplainable.

It's easier to man up and say to all the questions that we currently have no answer for "I don't know, let me find out as much as I can"
The pussy way to tackle ignorance-"God did it"
"How did he do it?"
"Magic bitch he is God, you don't how he do"
"K, bye you don't know shit and you are a faggot who believes in fairytales"

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>>131345785
No you don't let me do a quick google search for you because it doesn't seem like you research anything

Nation -a large aggregate of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory.
synonys: -----> (country, sovereign state)

United By
>#1 COMMON DESCENT
>#2 COMMON HISTORY
>#3 COMMON CULTURE
>#4 COMMON LANGUAGE

HMMMMM really gets the nogen jogen
Seems like all of that stems from a RACE
Ill disect it a little more for you though because them almonds aren't very active in you

#1 Common descent okay Germany has Germans, 2 Germans have a kid thats german
France has french people, 2 French people have a kid thats french
>#2 Common History, Okay thats pretty fucking ez i shouldn't have to explain that but just for the sake of the argument. Obviously England doesnt have the same history as AFRICA
>#3 Common culture Okay once pretty basic shit Mexico doesnt have the same culture as Japan nor does saudi arabia and england
>#4 Common language wow isnt it so weird that Polish people speak polska and spanish people speak spanish???

>you have downies bro
>You dont know what the word "nation" means

>>131344034
everyone believes in the concept of God. Just like everyone believes in the concept of Santa Claus and Xmas. It doesn't mean he believes there is a god.

>>131345595
What about the contradiction of Darwinists who are being out breed 4 to 1?

>>131345606
> its impossible to make a concrete statement of fact
but you take for granted that it's ridiculous that god could be a bearded caucasion in a robe? OK. Oh and the reason you havent made an affirmative statement to god's nature isn't because you're super humble. It's because you know it'll be as weak as the claims you've already easily dismissed and you're afraid someone here will do the same to you.

>God as a sociological phenomena certainly exists
OH WELL I GUESS GOD'S REAL THEN! LET'S HOLD PRAYER RALLIES INSTEAD OF MOBILIZING DRAUGHT RELIEIF. tHE BIBLE SAYS WE GOTTA KILL PEOPLE WHO FARM THE SAME LAND 7 YEARS IN A ROW. CAN'T ARGUE WITH GOD WE GOTTA DO IT! CANCEL THE SPACE PROGRAM BECAUSE THE SKY IS A CIELING AND THE EARTH IS A DISC SITTING ON WATER!

Oh wait. that's not what you're saying? My characterization was absurd and insulting? By "exist" you dont actually mean in the same way the billions of people alive today insist god exists? You mean to tell me your position on the existence of god is closer to mine than to an ISIS fighter's? My mistake. I was under the impression that you were arguing against my claim. Now I see that you agree god isnt real, but just don't want to use those words.

>>131346344
Nerd

>>131346057
Nietzche and Jung did not have the same idea about god and meaning. Nietzche argued that man had to create his own meaning in the aftermath of "god is dead".
Jung attempted to "revivify god" and argued that meaning was intrinsic and biological, that ideas about "what is" have existed and been part of our psyche long before we were conscious as we understand it today.

I'm not trying to make any specific point with this example, but I think some things about religious imagery are incredibly interesting from an evolutionary standpoint. For instance, take the "snake" that so frequently represents knowledge, evil, and Satan. Why is it a snake? Why not a tree? Why is a tree associated with life?

Well, one thing that's very interesting is monkey's DO NOT LIKE SNAKES. They'll halt all activity, alarm their friends, and just watch the snake to make sure it doesn't hurt any of them. Who's to say that, just as a mouse is naturally scared of a rat, even without any exposure to rats previously (they're prey animals), we do not contain within ourselves some latent knowledge of what is and what should be?

The snake is just one example, it's the first that came to mind.

Yes he does;
He Had a Vision
Of Heaven:

https://youtu.be/Ifi5KkXig3s?t=8790

>>131345997
If you're really interested, you should read his book, Maps of Meaning. It's on a completely different level from his YouTube content. I highly recommend that you at least familiarize yourself with the concept of Jungian Archtypes, although he does a pretty good job of laying the foundation for his claims in the first major section of his book.

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EXACT MOMENT Jordan speaks of his VISION

https://youtu.be/Ifi5KkXig3s?t=8893

>>131340300
He once made the argument that IQ in certain parts of the world will rise in the coming generations due to advancements in technology...I think he's just bullshitting the press and knows the truth. But he has already presented many hard truths to our delusional generation so he has done good work.

>>131339051
Eh. I am willing to bet that he is center-right, definitely 80% right-wing, but he is pretty clear to all that he is against any sort of authoritarian government.

>>131336437
He's a fake postmodern Christian.

>>131345997
These are pretty great as well as his other lectures in this series/course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iLiKMUiyTI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6pbJTqv2hw

>>131346663
Well sure everyone believes that there IS a concept of God given that other people believe in God and that we even have the word "God" itself, but I think he takes it further by believing that a person needs to act in accordance to their belief in God. Which is what he says he does. So by that standard he believes in God. And you might say, "Well why does he get to decide what God is? Isn't that moving the goal posts?" And the answer to that is that we all decide what God is for ourselves. You can't declare God to be a magical man in the sky and say that he doesn't believe in God because he doesn't believe in your definition of it any more than he can redefine it and say that he does. He believes in God in the way that he's described God.

He said he's a phenomenologist in that he doesn't care what people say they believe in, but rather he cares about how they act out those beliefs. I think "phenomenologist" is what he said, I might have that wrong. He acts in a way that shows he believes in God. It might not be your idea of God, but you're no more entitled to define God than he is. At least he's defining God as a means of orienting his own life in a way that conforms to a value system rather than defining God as a means to serve as a weapon against others. As a means of challenging their belief in God by defining God as something impossible to believe in.

>>131346508
>>131346508
>France has french people, 2 French people have a kid thats french

So you're here...Now do some research on why French people aren't making new French people at replacement rate Even though they are filthy rich.

>>131336603
This. /thread

>>131342477
Fuckin amazing.
I was a fedora atheist before I got to know him.
I respect him so much. A lot of my profs as an undergrad and even in grad school I thought were basically mouthpieces for the status quo without an original thought or opinion in their lil pea brains, but he was so different.
Its one of the first people I truly admired. I remember thinking that, just realizing "Wow, I really look up to this guy"
And this was years before he became famous.
Him and I got along really well because I was so into Nietzsche and had a nuanced view on his philosophy that's uncommon in Academia these days.
So many dildos read a summery and think they know what they're talking about(pretty much describes most students and academics these days) instead of reading the source material. If they only knew how often Nietzsche warned against that very thing kek so I find it hilariously ironic to talk with those guys about Nietzsche
But yeah, DJP as I call em (Dr. Jordan Peterson) is literally the most interesting man I've ever met.

>>131346836
God has been invoked countless ways. Even if you are the proverbial "white supremacist christian fundamentalist" if you make god a bearded Caucasian I think that's a silly way to describe or think of god. Thats my personal opinion though.

God is clearly a concept that has been attempted to be understood for quite a long time. The fact that I think its silly concept to think of god as an old dude with a beard is probably ignorant as he could be for all I know. I just have a gut feeling this isnt the case, call it faith.

My argument, if you can call it that, is that no one knows what god is but you can kinda dismiss some arguments because they don't make sense. I am not however saying god can't exist because a large number of people would disagree with me both alive and dead. If you want to label that "super humble" so be it, it just seems like the most logical position given the subject in my mind.

>>131348737
I am very jealous

>>131347776
>I think he's just bullshitting the press and knows the truth
I've had my suspicions about that as well. He's walking the razor's edge in trying to balance what he believes and speak his truth with the reality of keeping his job and not getting fined/arrested for violating Canada's hate speech laws. So it's hard to tell what he thinks about some of the most controversial subjects.

He seems to be a bit of a racial realist given that he gave slight push back to the sociologist who was studying violent crime among young men and it's relationship to relative poverty. The sociologist was talking mostly about violent blacks in America and Peterson posed the question about poor Asians not being nearly as violent saying something like, "many people would bring that counterpoint up" kind of to cover his own ass I imagine. The sociologist didn't have a very good answer for it, but Peterson didn't pursue it further.

He has said, and this was in his maps of meaning class with the muzzie girl sitting in the front row, that he doesn't know if Islam will ever be able to integrate with the West. He's also said that he thinks it might be possible that feminists are allying themselves with Islam because they subconsciously seek the authoritarian, domineering masculine force that they've essentially chased away and suppressed in the Western world.

Also I have a hard time gauging what he really means when he's talking about nationalism. He often brings it back to the nazis and how they're just as bad as the communists, but he doesn't seem to have as much vitriol for the nationalists as he does for the egalitarians. I wonder if he's open to the idea of a moderate nationalism and has to tone it down a bit or if he's really equally opposed to both nationalism/egalitarianism and fascism/communism.

Hard to tell given the situation he's in. But it'd be interesting to hear what his true thoughts on some of those subjects are, considering he's contemplated them for so long.

>>131348092
If he is suggesting that everyone should act in accordance to their subjective God then he is a bigger retard than previously described. That gives a free pass to ISIS, Westboro, Scientology, Cults, etc.

No one disputes that the moon is the fucking moon (except flat earth fags) but God is open to interpretation?? Things either are or they aren't. If you can't properly define what the fuck you are talking about and others can agree on a definition then it is a fucking opinion and not a fact and pointless to discuss.

He believes god is the transcendent spirit and morality of your tribe

You can make sacrifices to it, it can judge you, etc.

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This thread....A bunch of reddit peasants

couldn't even bait out the /pol/ consensus because its just a bunch of faggots who want to parrot Hitchens, harris, Dawkins like every person here hasn't heard it a thousand time

>Why are atheists, militant, about bringing the most violent religion to their country?
>Why aren't atheists breeding
>Why are they progressive
>Why is the birth rate divide not between believers and atheist but people who attend church and everyone else?

>>131346772
You are proof that there is no intelligent design. Retards (your parents) have as much of a chance of procreation as Einstein's did. Evolution is only adaptation to environmental pressures and retards thrive in a retarded world.

>>131349744
Watch the Tara McCarthy interview he did. He dodges every race question she throws at him. He clearly knows what he is getting into when it comes to race, otherwise he wouldn't dodge those questions so strategically.

There is also one interview online from like 2011 where the interviewer asks him what he thinks about proliferating populations in Africa and Peterson jokingly said "im not going there." He then stated that it doesnt matter in the long term as Africa becomes more technologically advanced...although I kind of doubt he really meant that when he said it...

>>131350359
atheists hate Islam more than xtianity cuz its the most dangerous and retarded religion. Liberal "spiritual but not religious" faggots are the ones that suck muslim dick and want ~tolerance~

>>131350808
sjw-infected atheists believe the standard "religion of peas" narrative

>>131350808
>atheists hate Islam more than xtianity cuz its the most dangerous and retarded religion.

Last time I checked 75% of them voted for the party that wants to import millions of them

>>131351097
the irony of bright lights in interior.

>>131339051
>NatSoc
He's a fucking classic liberal m8, a pre WWI anglo liberal to be precise.

>>131343892
next time just try asking him to explain his post to you so you can understand it

>>131349756
I'm not gonna engage you in a flame war over what some dude who isn't either one of us believes so you can take your angst and rage down a notch.

It's not that God has no definition or meaning, but if you define God as something that's impossible to believe in and then say that Peterson doesn't believe in God as a result then you're just playing a crooked game. You can tell yourself "Atheists 1 - Theists 0" all you want. It's not going to do anything other than make you feel superior and stop every meaningful conversation about God in it's tracks.

Comparing God to the moon is just ridiculous. You're clearly being deterministic about this. You're saying that if you can't measure it then it doesn't exist. Fine. God doesn't exist then. Have fun with that belief. But at the end of the day, that's not how you act. You act like this conversation matters, but there's currently no way for you to measure whether it does or not.

>things either are or they are not
Clearly you are a determinist. That's fine I'm not saying that as a way to dismiss you or your beliefs. But it leaves the question: why do you DO anything? Do you quantify and calculate everything you do before you do it? Or do you do some things just because you feel you should? Where do those feelings come from? Hormones and electrical impulses racing between synapses? But why are those there? Maybe it's because you value certain things. Maybe it's because those values are what orient living creatures to keep living and to propagate themselves. So then you must have a structure of values. And that structure of values must orientate itself towards that which is the most valuable. Ancient people have conceptualized that most valuable thing that sits atop the value structure as something akin to God. It's the unattainable perfection everyone strives towards. How do you measure that? Because you can't put it under a microscope it doesn't exist? Or because you can't take a ruler to it?

>>131351117
no asshole, they voted against religious right you stupid fuck, the more immediate danger. "I want small government except when it comes to God" If republicans wanted to bring in muslims for some reason you wouldn't see atheists voting republican.

>>131352088
>no asshole, they voted against religious right you stupid fuck, the more immediate danger.

really....Is that what they did. They voted against the religious right. That fucking hardcore Christian conservative Donald J Trump

An election where the #1 issue was immigration. huh. How come 75% voted against brexit

>>131351758
all I read was deepity. I don't give a shit about you value or what you think I value since that is subjective. I am concerned with what we can all agree is true and base our objective, shared reality accordingly. I know full well we will never know the absolute reality since in our localized universe we only have one vantage point (earth and our solar system) that will always render insufficient data to understand the larger questions that have plagued mankind. There is an event horizon since the universe is expanding than the speed of light and we will never be able to see or study portions of our universe even if we lived forever.

>>131349756
cont.

God is essentially the thing which you strive towards emulating and attempt to get closer to. It's also what >>131350161 says
>the transcendent spirit and morality of your tribe
>you make sacrifices to it and it judges you
and that's because people needed to personify this concept that is still so difficult for us to grasp. If we have trouble conceptualizing it imagine the difficulty they had in first creating it then attempting to grasp it. So of course they had to conceptualize God as a super person. People needed to know how to edify themselves and their family and their community and their people. To do that they needed some structure of value that provided them with orientation.

This was combined with their attempt to understand nature too. Nature gives life the possibility to continue. You can extract from it fruit and grain and meat and water to sustain yourself. But at the same time it's trying to kill you. So God was personified as a masculine form and nature personified as a feminine form. Those were the two "super people" that humans had to understand and deal with. We have to be in balance with nature, grateful for it's nourishment of life and cautious of it's potential to kill us and bring chaos into our communities and we have to orientate ourselves towards God the father.

They're the personified concepts which people have been contending with since before there were even people. So of course the earliest conceptualizations of them were hokey. It's literally taken us forever to get here.

>>131352600
Ok dude. i am an atheist, and I am telling you that I hate Islam, and I voted against Trump AND the religious right, not for Islam. Democrats are closer to secular government even though they are still pussies and no atheist has publicly been a major political figure.

It makes me sad seeing atheists still being so dismissive of religion, by the same "lol bearded dude lol miracles" approach of 2008. There are some good people in this thread trying to explain to you people what the idea of God could be to believe in (not dude on a cloud, are you all recovering christians or something?). Instead we degenerate back to "i only care about measurable stuff we can agree on". Did you even hear peterson when he talks about dialogue? If something someone tells you strikes you as completely retarded then perhaps you're not seeing what he sees? humility so foreign to atheists...

>>131353140
>>131353140
The election was nationalism vs Globalism

You see pic related>>131350359

>>131352824
still sounds like a load of horseshit. Peterson sounds, according to y'all, like Deepak Chopra for the post-Trump "woke" Joe Rogan crowd. I also don't really need an explanation of were myths come from throughout history. It all stems from a lack of understanding the natural world and deep need for satiating the burning questions we may never answer.

>>131353357
retardation vs reality

nationalism is impossible in a global, interconnected society. I have no idea when "anti-globalists' will realize that they can't turn back the clock. It is done, we are one world scoiety. We either all get along or we fuck each other up. Stupidity and lack of information does not help either.

>>131352727
>I don't give a shit
>8 posts by this ID
You clearly do. Nearly every post you've made is you cursing other people out and calling them retarded. This subject clearly makes you very emotional. That's fine, it just means you're interested and have a strong opinion about it. That's better than someone who actually doesn't give a shit.

The problem is that you seem to think that everything is either scientifically objective or it isn't real. I'm curious what degrees and perhaps even doctorates and masters you have in scientific disciplines? You don't seem like much of a scientist. You just seem like an angry atheist kid who wants to prove how right he is. Honestly, which scientific disciplines are you a practitioner of?

>>131353251
Ignorance is a cancer, willful ignorance even worse. Religion is directly tied to a lack of information and it uses fantasy to fill in the gaps. There is literally no religion that does not fall into the God of the Gaps trap. I'm ok with fiction if you call it fiction but religion claims truth (and personal truth which is even worse)

>>131336437
He believes in the practical purpose of religion. i.e. the community, the fertility, the morality, etc. All are fundamental to continuation of western civilization.
t. low-key atheist who used church to find a wife and she has no idea.

>>131353680
You're going to get your empire faggot. It's going to be Muslim but you'll get it.

>>131353698
everything you believe in other than wuwu mystical shit you believe because it has been proven to be true. Religion is the only aspect in most people's lives where normal standards don't apply. I wonder why that is?? Everything else you won't believe without proof but God, spirituality, etc, no proof needed. It is a dishonest double standard.

>>131354159
fuck you, q'ran is as phony as the bible, torah, etc

>>131354301
I bet you think you should act morally despite not having any evidence for the existence of morality, idiot cuck

>>131353886

yeah yeah blah blah you keep saying we're missing the fucking obvious, and you can't get your head out of your ass for 2 seconds when people try to explain the CONCEPT of god to you. what are you even doing here? can you calm down if i tell you everything in the bible is a myth and no actual chemistry-defying miracles occurred?

>>131336603
so he's disingenuous about his religious beliefs.

You know what's good about porn?
It feels good.

>>131354025
>>131340126
Agreed. I'm sure your life has benefitted in other ways from the church environment besides finding your wife?

>>131354406
Hey, intergalactic gay space communism...That shits haram

>>131354659
good redpilled friends, I know a guy for everything I could need, Roof, interior, framing, landscaping, autorepair, glass/windows, house painter, over a dozen organic farmers who are always looking to trade.

My children are going to have decent peers raised by good people.

>>131336437
Peterson is heavily influenced by Jung (its easy to see if you've studied psychology at all) and Jung absolutely believed in God, in fact he went even further when asked in his last living interview whether or not he believed in God Jung answered, "I don't need to believe....I know"

Personally I admire Jung a great deal, his work has made a large impact on my life, possibly more than any other single person. It would be very difficult to take Jung seriously without also sharing his belief so I think Peterson does believe in God.

>>131354301
So you're not a scientist. Good to know. Reassuring actually. So you believe everything scientists tell you without testing it out yourself? How many things do you believe in without knowing for certainty how they work? The computer you're using right now only functions because of quantum mechanics. Where's your proof for that? It's still just a theory. And not a very complete one at that. Yet you still act as though it were true. And why not? It's working so far. You aren't nearly as scientifically minded as you think. You're just following the religion of science. You aren't actually the all knowing hyper intellect you think you are. Most of your actions are based on beliefs that you cannot prove are legitimate. Even the scientific ones, you aren't intelligent and educated enough to prove them. You're just a religious devotee who's criticizing all other brands of religion. Which is what religious people do after all, don't they?

Just an aside: why get so emotional if you don't have any proof it will do you any good? You're clearly distraught. Where's the scientific data that predicates that action?

>>131355074
b-but muh flood

>>131355074
too bad they won't see their pop in the next life since he'll be burning in hell for all eternity

>>131354500
I understand the CONCEPT of God asshole. I also understand it as useless as Santa Claus is to a kid. It does not get you closer understanding the universe or becoming a better person. If you need to lie to yourself and say there is a magic sky daddy to sleep better at night, knock yourself out, but it is a zero sum game for humanity.

>>131355189
>implying we're not going to be immortal before my natural death

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>>131339834
>ayys and lmaos my friend
Rejoice, for He is risen!

>>131355318
>Implying at some point you won't come to the realisation that maybe there's something to this whole religion thing

>>131355265
>useless as Santa Claus is to a kid.

This is upsetting...Lurk more before you post

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>>131355265
>becoming a better person
And you, guided by your adherence to the objective, are clearly the paragon of a good person. As evident by your tirades of curses and anger and angsty emotional outbursts towards everyone who interacts with you.

Tell us. Since we're not the good people and you clearly are given that we're all delusional and you've got it all figured out. How do we act in a manner that is good? Furthermore, why?

>>131336747
>*Tipping Intensifies

A great vocabulary cannot disguise a moron.

>>131355265

jesus christ you were either raised a christian or attended reddit college. get the fuck off this thread with this nonsense

>>131336603

We were made in his image though?

>>131355137
If everyone around thinks the tooth fairy is real and they have not ever seen it but they found money under their pillow then I have every right to be pissed that I'm surrounded by morons.

Quantum Mechanics also happens to be the most precisely tested theory in all of science.

I try not hold many beliefs that I don't know to be true without a high degree of certainty. If I am not pretty certain (for whatever that is worth) then I am open minded enough to change my opinion on the matter if new information disputes it. I definitely try to separate fact from opinion at all times.

When it comes to science, I don't follow what scientists say, I follow what the evidence shows. The interprettions may change, but if the explanation is sound and data backs it up then I will incorporate into my knowledge base. I don't allow things to creep in to my knowledge base that are unfounded beliefs or guesses, I leave those things to the part of my brain that speculates.

>>131355522
Perhaps, there's plenty of time.

>>131355666
Satan confirms

>>131355650
You will have to be more specific as to what you consider to be "good"

Good for you? Good for humanity? Good for the world? The universe? Or just good according to the "good" book?

Best fortune cookie I ever got said "the only good is knowledge and the only evil ignorance"

>>131356077
>>131356544
seriously anyone else getting that 2008 vibe?

>>131356524
Even Satan believes in God.

>>131356833
Kek

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>>131346344
>K, bye
Looks like you are the faggot. Guess all these guys lacked knowledge and didn't man up, right?

>>131356077
>I don't follow what scientists say, I follow what the evidence shows.
You don't though. How many studies on quantum mechanics have you read from beginning to end? How many studies on neurochemistry and physics and mathematics and astrophysics and medicine and zoology and psychology and mechanical engineering have you read? All of them? No? How about close to all of them? Still no? That's fine. How many doctorate and masters degrees do you hold in scientific disciplines? If it's less than all of them then you really don't know shit. You just trust what scientists say because you believe that the scientific system is a system worth putting faith in.

I'm willing to bet you don't even have a degree in more than one scientific discipline. If that's the case then the vast overwhelming amount of science is completely lost to you. You truly don't know. You trust. You believe. You're a believer. Not a scientist. You leave the science to your high priests. And thank God for that.

The overwhelming majority of what you do is not based on your knowledge of objective reality. It's based on your beliefs. You just masquerade behind science.

>>131356544
Good. That's the question. What is good? How do you solve that using objectivity? Where is your objective morality? The Soviet Union? Nazi Germany? How about Mao's China? They believed they could achieve "goodness" through objectivity.

If religion is worthless and for "retards" then tell us all what is good. If it's for the follower of objective science to answer that then please, by all means, tell us what is good.

>>131356168
Its better...Who cares if the ideas won evolutionary or if they are divine

If its evolutionary will we just lose to the idea of turning women into breeding cattle, covered head to toe no rights. Maybe

>>131336437
What's wrong with jerking off? I don't get it.

Probably far older than most people here, but I fucked a bunch of broads before the fucking internet was even a thing. Honestly, it was no big deal.

Older now and I'd rather just squeeze one out. I even have to remind myself to do it once a week or so. Don't get the big deal.

>>131336437

My guess is he believes we are in a Simulation. Technically there is a God

>>131357329

He's not against jerking off exactly, he's more against pornography. From what I remember seeing him talk about it a year or two ago he mentioned that the easy access to naked women in their own homes makes men less likely to actively try to find mates

>>131357329
Banging chicks isn't hard. If you're young (like most people on this site are) just sit at a bar and drink. You have to actively try to not get laid to go home alone.

>>131357329
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWM4bJNpch0&t=823s

>>131356993
most of them could have done shit without islamic algebra what is your fucking point? Plus atheist Einstein>>>>

>>131357152

Not the person you're replying to

Are you trying to suggest some kind of false equivalence between trusting science and trusting religion?

You've got this weird all or nothing view of the situation, like you have to be a master of all kinds of science or the whole thing is just blind belief on the same level as just believing the bible is true.

You can gather supporting evidence for science, a scientist can demonstrate principles to you through experimentation, and then they can explain to you how theyve extrapolated from what's been proven to you to the greater theories

Science is all interconnected as well, technology made possible by a given kind of science provides evidence for those theories and practices, and by extension it provides evidence that science as a whole is trustworthy

Religion has some supporting evidence too, to be sure, you can cross reference the bible with ancient history, you can also take moral teachings and apply them in your life and study the results. But the extent to which you can achieve certainty, and the extent to which you can communicate certainty to others through shared understanding, is clearly less than for science wouldn't you say?

Many religious people believe they have felt emotional states such as "gods presence" or things like that. This is considered very important to many religious people, integral to their belief in God, but not at all easy to share with somebody who doesn't understand. Science on the other hand has a step by step process you can use. Everything builds logically and you can point to evidence every step of the way

>>131357152
Objective morality is a human construct. It is irrelevant outside of earth. That being said it is derived on what a given society agrees it is the optimal standard for human interaction in a given system. It also leaves out all other living beings so it is a moot point in the abstract.

If there is an absolute morality that applies throughout all of the cosmos then humans break it daily and so do all major religions.

>>131357668
Makes sense I guess. Just not sure why such a seemingly obvious sentiment and others like it makes him a guru.

Are children that directionless that they need to make someone speaking common sense a figurehead in a movement that seems to exist only to annoy people?

We are winning. We have been winning. Fuck them.

Real question is

Do you want to be an 85IQ shitskin in a Muslim world

GN

>>131336437
He's a Deist if anything.

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Daily Reminder: Putin is more respected than Trump even by Americans, and Merkel is the Leader of the Free World, while Trump is the Laughingstock of the World. Putin Won.

>>131358217
>You've got this weird all or nothing view of the situation
I don't. I'm just responding to the guy who said he doesn't do anything he doesn't know to be objectively true. I'm making the point that the vast majority of his actions are based on values that can't be attributed to his confirmation of every objective fact and that there's a lot of value in acting based on the non-objective reality

I don't dispute at all the value of science. I trust in it because it's the most sound system we have so far for describing what the world is.

I only compared it to religion because most people treat it like religion. Obviously it can be backed up by fact, but that doesn't matter to most people because most people aren't scientists and they don't test every scientific observation for themselves and for good reason too. It's a very self-regulating constantly updating system. It's trustworthy because even though every individual isn't testing it constantly other scientists are. So you can trust that if a scientific observation has withstood the gauntlet of other scientists trying to disprove it, then it's a pretty sound observation.

If you read the conversation with the guy I was responding to I think you'll get what I'm saying. He's taking one extreme claiming that he only adheres to what he knows for certain to be objectively true so I'm taking it to it's logical conclusion which is that he doesn't yet acts out a mode of being in the world anyway. It's a long, boring conversation to read, but it'll put it into context.

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>>131357972
>any and all beliefs in god to a lack of knowledge
All of those men believed i God. According to you that means they lacked knowledge. What are your scientific and technological breakthroughs?
Here is a quote from Einstein
>fanatical atheists...are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who—in their grudge against the traditional 'opium of the people'—cannot hear the music of the spheres.

>>131358247
>a human construct
What a cop out. Numbers are a human construct. Are we supposed to ignore them? Are numbers less real than the things which they represent? Are they as real? Perhaps more? They're certainly a human construct. Show me a numerical system that was created by trees or bonobos or bottle nosed dolphins. You can't. So are we to ignore numbers and language and human social interaction because they're human constructs? That's just a cop out clearly.

>It is irrelevant outside of earth.
But we humans currently live on Earth so how is what is irrelevant outside of Earth relevant to how humans conduct themselves in a manner which is good? It's not relevant what so ever.

>That being said it is derived on what a given society agrees it is the optimal standard for human interaction in a given system.
Exactly. It's what has been codified in religions over the course of tens of thousands of years.

>It also leaves out all other living beings so it is a moot point in the abstract.
First off, no it doesn't. Many religions place an emphasis on treating animals well and using them for the good of the human community. Not only animals, but plants too. Many native American religions and animist religions and Eastern religions place an emphasis on reverence of trees, among other life forms.

Secondly, just because some religions leave out other living beings is irrelevant to prescribing how humans conduct themselves in a way that is good. Especially if what is good is just what a society agrees on.

>>131336437
Does it matter?

>>131359190

Oh okay I gotchu, he kinda pushed you there I see

Some people in this thread don't trust science at all, so I thought that's what side you were arguing from

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>>131360286
You'd think that being on one extreme end of the spectrum would give you the most resistance. It's attempting to take a reasonable approach somewhere in the middle that'll get your head bit off by a rabid fundamentalist or ideologue.

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>The car is leading us outside the suburbs of the city, on a long, wretched, provincial street, under a grey and rainy sky. It suddenly turns left, enters a countryside path, stops in front of a small villa with sharp outlines, the ‘Green House,’ the center of the ‘Iron Guard.’
>“We built it with our own hands,” the leader of the legionaries who is accompanying us tells us, not without a certain pride.
>We come in, walk through a sort of guardroom, reach the first floor. Through a group of Legionaries who part comes towards us a young, tall, slender man, with an uncommon expression of nobleness, frankness and energy imprinted on his face: azure grey eyes, open forehead, genuine Roman-Aryan type: and, mixed with virile traits, something contemplative, mystical in the expression.
>This is Corneliu Codreanu, the leader and founder of the Romanian ‘Iron Guard,’ the one who is called ‘assassin,’ ‘Hitler’s henchman,’ ‘anarchist conspirator,’ by the world press, because, since 1919, he has been challenging Israel, and the forces which are more or less in cahoots with it, at work in the Romanian national life.