Are trades a meme or the redpilled option?

>>131113134
depends on the trade and on you

t. tradesman

little of column a little of column b

>>131113134
they are a meme in the sense that they're not the fix-all panacea that some people seem to think they are, and in the sense that some people going into trade would be a waste of brainpower (a state should strive to utilize their resources to the fullest extent, and if someone who has the smarts to be doing significant research goes into a trade, instead of working in a lab, it's a waste)

it's redpilled in the sense that for a lot of people, it would honestly be a better option than the socially-sanctioned option of college->worthless degree->mountains of debt path

>>131113134
HVAC is going to take a hit soon with the amount of lazy faggots, population increase, and lack of jobs to accommodate the population, so there will be a lack of people renting or owning homes that can afford to maintain their furnaces and A/C units. Electricians are important, so are plumbers. I've had 4 offers for plumbing companies to pay $27-$38 an hour without certification to assist. Electricians that work for a company typically make $49-$70 an hour around here, the ones that work for themselves make a good living depending on how hungry they are for work.

HVAC is horrible in terms of pay in places where it's most needed, like the South. You'd have to be an engineer to even dream of a six figure income.

Right now, the guys doing these sorts of jobs are getting old, and almost nobody is replacing them, so you've got 50-60 year olds that are just not physically able to keep up with the physical element of the job.

However, don't believe that the money you can make with the job is guaranteed, or preferable. Sure, 20 an hour sounds nice if you're unemployed, but we all know that salaried jobs are superior simply because you KNOW you'll be getting paid. These old farts want apprentices to help them do their job, don't believe for a second that the trade school meme isn't being pushed because they intend to make us break our backs like they did.

>>131113134
If you have the time, money and smarts you're probably better off getting an engineering or other useful degree.

Otherwise trades are a good option, less investment, but still a reasonable payout, especially if you're smart enough to run a small company in your trade.

Biggest downside to trades is the lack of flexibility. If you learn HVAC, you're stuck with it, if people need less HVAC work, life gets harder.

If you're employable as an engineer, there's many industries that are gunning for you.

Trades are solid tho.

That's what im currently doing in machining. I have taken blueprint reading 1 and 2 and also starting with numerical control and machine practice this semester, which will be manual lathe and mill stuff.

I have already worked in machining for 4 years now however and have some experience, just needed schooling. you will find out that employers will start you off at low pay, even with schooling, but you will have a better chance to grow, still they fuck you with nightshifts, which I no longer accept to going into a job now.

Basically engineering jobs on the low end takes a lot of knowledge and you don't get paid as much as you would compared to other jobs out there that dont require a whole lot, just a lot of people skill. Still it's fun regardless, and if you are making stuff for yourself it's worth it.

The good thing is engineering jobs or stem related stuff is a very proud field, it's good and worth it even if you dont get paid as much as you think you should.

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>>131113134
Going to college next year, but don't feel right about it, I'm shit at math so STEM is off the table.
I've talked to my parents about trade before, but they say if I want to make real money, I'd need to start my own business, and I'd need a college degree to do that.

I'm thinking I might drop out after first semester and become a sparky desu

>>131113947
If you're breaking your back in a trade you're doing it wrong. There have been plenty of quality of life improvements for tradesmen over the years. We're not using augurs to drill holes any more m8.

>>131113239
fpbp

>>131116213

You don't need a college degree to start a business. It's not like they refused Bill Gates a license because he didn't go to college. Just pick up some business books and learn to market.

I thought I would make a good welder but I was wrong. You're supposed to weld with speed rather than paying attention to detail, saftey and working methodically. Fuck. I have the three basic AWS certifications.

>>131116515
Say I was a licensed electrician and wanted to start my own business as one, what would I need to do that, just a business license? And what do you need to get that?

>>131113239
What trade is good trade. Pls help I tried an industrial cutting and welding class and can't cut a straight line to save my life.

>>131116847
I hear welding fucks up your body desu, electrician and HVAC seem very good

>>131116760

Business licenses vary by state. If you want to check requirements and cost, I'd check out LegalZoom. Usually it's less than a grand - often less than $500. Check out your state legal codes for any laws surrounding your specific field, so you can make sure you're in compliance.

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>>131116987
>electrician
i'm colorblind desu

>HVAC
I'll look into it

>>131113134
trade school is like chad college. all the high school fuckups who coasted as far as they could end up working trades.

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>>131117294
So my parents basically either lied to me or don't know jack shit about starting your own business as a tradesman? (im assuming the latter)
>mfw

skilled trades are cancer and only for the mentally deficient

academia master race here

>>131117381
What does it take to become a pilot? How much do you make?

>>131117497
>chads are fuckups
weeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Two options I haven't seen discussed. Pet grooming. Open your own shop and don't run it like a retard and you can make 6 figures. And railroader, on the job training no college required, good benefits and also 6 figures.

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>>131117437
Kek, nice pic
Fair warning, I'm just a young cunt looking into trades myself,
heavy equipment operators seem good too
>learn to drive heavy equipment (dump trucks, excavators, etc.)
>go to a mining operation
>make bank
>>131117497
Have you seen the type of people who go to college?

>>131113134
they're for the lower classes.

>>131117544
Unless you majored in something stem related your degree is a joke.

>>131117626
different types. brainy chad goes into finance or sales. dumb chad goes and becomes an electrician or welder.

>>131116213
Paul's Online Notes will help you pass all math up to Vector Calc

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>>131117777
Are you...retarded?

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>>131113947
This is true, I'm 45 and I'm starting to get too old to do my job and we aren't getting any younger folks in to replace us. In 20 years you better hope robots can sand and install hardwood floors, tile, carpet because there is nobody that can replace me getting trained. It was a really good paying job 20 years ago but my industry is competing with Russian immigrants that have 5 people living in a 1000 sq/ft house running under the table businesses
so we haven't been able to raise prices since 2005 at this point I'd be better off managing a McDonalds than killing myself doing construction.

>>131116213
You do not need college to run a successful business. Who told you that???

>>131117946
just spitting the facts you need to hear, kids. a world-weary NEET has no place in the world of trades.

>>131117994
My Parents
t. Young cunt who started looking into trade too late

>>131118053
> a world-weary NEET has no place in the world of trades
A "world-weary" NEET like you has no place in this world, let alone the world of trades, go do something productive you lazy cunt

>>131117534
it's the former sorry, and you can start any business in any field without any college degree.

>>131116847
Elevators. Good luck waiting 2 years for the union to give you a job. What state you in I'll move you to the front of the line. I make $50+ an hour

>>131117534

Most people think that starting a business is super complex, and a legal hassle. It's really easy to get the license. Complexity is dealing with accounting, taxes, marketing, making payroll, finding good people to work for you (and dealing with their issues), collecting payment, and all the other fun stuff of owning a business.

Of course, there are cheap web-based services to deal with most of that stuff, simplifying matters.

>>131117994
I (((wonder)))

>>131113134
Any man should try to pick a job by his ability and availability of jobs on the market in these tiers of fields, with highest being more desirable:

1) Fundamental science
2) Engineering
2b) Medicine
3) Software/"Engineering lite"
4) Trade
5) Liberal arts
6) Fine arts

>>131118263
No, I whole heartedly believe they think college is the best option because of what (((society))) tells us

>>131118227
studying right now. just trying to make sure my brethren don't fall down the same false path of becoming a greasemonkey.

>>131118067
Well you don't. Just go to the corporation commission of your state and file for a LLC, INC, etc lincense. (Whatever you need)....make sure you get the correct lincense for the county and city as well and you should be good to go. Figure out what you need for insurance etc. Quick Books is something I swear by. But it depends on what you're going to do for a business. But I always encourage entrepreneurship.

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>>131113134
The redpilled option.

University is a scam meme.

>>131113551
HVAC encompasses more than just an AC and the people you reference are still going to live somewhere that will need climate control for their living space. Furthermore, with the death of R22 there will be a lot of replacement deals as 410 units will have to replace the R22 ones by failure and sheer expense. R22 clones like M099 at best extend a year or two to outdated systems. Commercial extends that job field as well as you add chillers and water towers or fan banks. Heating comes into play in the winter.

There is also the low temp field which encompasses walk in freezers/coolers to the freezer/cooler box isles at stores along with ice machines. Additionally you pick up electric and plumbing skills from this one trade. As you build knowledge and experience you do move into engineering roles right around six figures depending on the job and company.

If you kids are looking to be rich, work for yourself and not someone else. This route becomes more feasible as you mature as a tradesman. But out of the gate will be a challenge as you will be competing with field seasoned veterans of the trade with many years of many contacts and a solid reputation. You make more money as you get older and wiser if you play the game right, including your own lab to tinker and experiment. You also don't have a job that will be offshored to gutter filth poo in the loos for pennies on the dollar or replaced by a buggy poo in the loo shitware rollout or physical automation anytime soon.
>just my experience

>>131113134
Trades are a realistic and rewarding way to make a decent living. Tonight on the docks, we're loading a new rollercoaster for Japanese Disneyland.

is water treatment considered a trade?

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>>131118613
I really don't value education senpai.
Highschool was such a fucking meme, then I was accepted to all the colleges I applied to.
Of course my family all said, "wow, congratulations anon!" But I really didn't feel like it was a hard thing to do.
I'm not saying I'm too good for it all, I'm just saying that it all seemed too easy.

I just went to a college orientation thing today, two words to describe it:
Peak Decadence

You virtual metro fags need to learn how to work with your hands. When the shit hits the fan, the Mexicans will tuck tail back to Mexico. The old timers will be compromised with arthritis and bad backs. The women will suddenly denounce feminism. Who will be left to fight? Get your shit together, "men"

>>131117771
Tell that to a humanities professor at a top school pulling six figures for literally pulling shit out of their ass for publications

>>131118803

Depends what you mean by water treatment. Some of that includes plumbing, and installing well water softening systems - which would be a trade.

Any trades to stay away from if I have shit vision?

>>131118792
That's sick, how much do you make on the docks? Are you the same as a longshoreman?
>>131118710
What a gay pic

>>131116213
>I'd need to start my own business, and I'd need a college degree to do that.
lmfao what? Most retarded thing I've ever heard. Do you need a degree to register your business now or something?

>>131117777
>Dumb.
>Electrician.

Do you understand how technical this trade is? You need physics qualifications just to be accepted into a program.

>>131119125

Let's not give liberals any ideas now.

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>>131118745
Good post m8. Thanks.

>>131118267
Nebraska.

>>131118996
Yeah but that's maybe 1% of the people with liberal arts degrees. Maybe.

>>131118710
GIANTS
GIANTS
GIANTS
BECOME
UNSTOPPABLE

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>>131119475
What specific type of people are those professors anyway?

>>131119105
I am a Longshoremen in Vancouver. The occupation is split into two parts, with maintenance and operations. Maintenance are a panoply of trades from painters to millwrights. Operations is anything from skilled labor to operating lift trucks, pedestal cranes and dock gantries. I'm a first aid attendant and just hang out for people to get hurt. We have shift variances and weekend rates... Day shift is $42, afternoon is $52 and graveyard is $62. Graveyard shift is only six and a half hours long. Tradesmen and machine operators often get overtime in lieu of breaks or in deference to training.

It's a good gig, easier to get into as a tradesman. I'm looking into becoming a foreman in ten years or so. Automation is already here and hasn't negatively impacted work... In some cases, there are more jobs as a result of automation.

It's nice, I like working on the ocean

>>131119169
Mate, all you need to know is ohms law

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>>131119052
a treatment plant operator?

>>131117951

I'm Russian immigrant, on a move to US and was planning to join renovation business, may be flipping houses. Sad to hear that I'm the last in a line.

>>131119169
I don't know what programs you've been looking at, but there are no preliminary qualifications of any mathematical or scientific field required where I am, other than high school math.

>>131113134
They're a meme, don't you DARE to touch trades.

>>131119651
Sounds like a fine job.
My uncle used to be the captain of a ship, he's a harbor pilot now.
He said the longshoremen would always try to steal cargo depending on where you went, Kek. Have you ever tried to steal cargo my man?

>>131119939
Explain

>>131119834
have fun living in a car and doing drywall 18 hours a day.

>>131119721
Here in Canada, the requirements are strict and the training is difficult. I don't know about Australia, but it's not like it is in the USA where they have grades of electrician. Here, you learn everything that there is to know and the end goal is the red seal.

>>131118710
University without direction is a scam. A lot of people who know what they want can go in, major or double major in something relevant, and leave with internships and jobs lined up. Ultimately just clearing the left out is only half the solution. We need to re-evaluate how university is approached overall. Mainly I'm a fan of postponing university until 20 or 21, and allowing kids to work a bit and get experience out of high school. Let them acquire a bit of an idea about how the world works, and get some cash so that they can at least partially pay their way through without having to resort to going into debt. Personally, leaving high school I wanted to work for a year because I knew I wasn't mentally prepared to take college seriously. But I was forced into going by my parents, basically they wouldn't take no for an answer or even listen to my reasoning. As a consequence I went to a university I didn't really care about, bouncing around majors I didn't really care about, forced me to load up on classes I didn't really care about, and then they blamed me for doing poorly. I finally graduated, and have done some part time shit here and there but I'm a NEET right. How different it would have been if they had just listened to my 17.5 year old self.

>>131119759

Those are counted as trade skills as well, I think, yes.

Stay away from trades, they're awful and we're fu- I mean they're completely oversatured, you get paid shit to break your back.

>>131119759

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tradesman for list of recognized trade jobs.

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>>131120062
>Personally, leaving high school I wanted to work for a year because I knew I wasn't mentally prepared to take college seriously. But I was forced into going by my parents, basically they wouldn't take no for an answer or even listen to my reasoning. As a consequence I went to a university I didn't really care about, bouncing around majors I didn't really care about, forced me to load up on classes I didn't really care
This is me to a T
I'm 18 rn, going to college next year, haven't a clue what I want to do.
Everyone around me says it's normal but indebting myself by 100k just to "find myself" don't feel right
I might just drop out after 1 st semester, get into trade

>>131119378
>Nebraska
I can't help you my man sorry

>>131120060
Most sparkies here just work from AS3000 (Aus/nz compliance standard) and don't even into anything complex. Mixed voltage stuff generally confounds the plodders.. once worked on a boat that had 110, 240 and 415 vac, and had other systems on 12, 24 vdc and a few 24vac control systems... had a few sparkies in to sign off on systems we'd updated, not one of them knew what rs232 is (nmea0182 is all rs232, nmea2000 is a whole other story)

>>131120010
I'm not really sure how I'd fit thirty foot steel pipe into the back of my Chevy Cobalt, fampai. Never really thought about it. We get paid well and the greasy guys from the olden times are aging out, so it's a pretty clean cut bunch of guys now.

>>131119594
Jordan Peterson too? He's a fucking psych professor, FFS, which is core (((professor))) turf.

>>131119874
Check out the BCIT electrician apprenticeship program, it's pretty intense. My father in law is an electrician and my brother in law is trying to get his certification, it's pretty nuts. Brother in law is getting killed on the mathematics.

>>131119651
I just started as a casual last winter.

>>131120621
Kek, sounds good.
The shipping industry has always somewhat fascinated me, especially my uncle's stories.
He once told me that he believes he hit a whale while sailing

>>131117770
>mfw your society wouldn't function at all without us
kill yourself

I'm a pipeliner/pipefitter and make bank. But I also hobby as a programmer and make side cash too. College can be a meme, trades can be too. It all depends on you, really.

>>131119651
longshoremen is a great job if your a lazy dogfucker

>>131113551
Friend of mine is a commercial electrician. Makes $50 an hour minimum and has work for as long as he wants. He's been doing it 13 years so didnt just start yesterday, but he lives pretty well, no office bullshit, fixed hours and usually works inside.

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>>131120750
>tfw all you need is a highschool degree and good work ethic to pick up an apprenticeship in the US
Feels good man

>>131120985
What state is this in?

>>131117534

Business licenses are usually cheap as fuck

It's the insurance and bonding and licensing as a contractor that's a more expensive

>>131120804
Which local? I'm A board at 502.

I'm 19, a 2 year degree in industrial maintenance and I'm making 23.60 an hour now. I've only been on the job for 3 months. Got a 401k, already buying some stocks. Got my own insurance through the company too

>>131120937
The most important callous you'll ever need is on your elbows. Increases your leaning efficiency.

>>131121248
Salary at the factory I work at tops out at 33/hr for me. and it's just a small printing factory

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Side note...

>>131120937
That's a complete union racket here. Those commie bastards have the ports locked down, hostage, and all get six figures. The fucking jobs are literally inherited and passed down...pure corruption and nepotism.

Dude A:
>goes into a trade immediately out of high school
>completes it within five years, the norm
>gets his ticket at 23 years old
>continues working
>all debt incurred in getting the ticket is easily paid for before turning 23

Dude B:
>goes into med school immediately after high school
>graduates normally
>begins working normally as a doctor, not overtime etc

If you factor in paying off his med school, Dude B literally won't "catch up" to Dude A until they are in their FORTIES. Do the fucking math.

If more men looked at it this way, the trades would be fucking saturated to shit and back, and they are far, far from it. Right now Ontario is starved because there aren't enough people to keep up with the budget increase that the liberal government put into the education system alone, it's fucking insane.

>>131113134
You need to go where the trades are to be successful.

>>131116847
try tree trimming/removal.

>>131120446
The problem is a lot of people don't even understand what their calling is until they've aged a bit and have seen some shit. If I was to go to university now I'd pick entirely different majors and classes than what I did. Going in without knowing what you want to do is a 1970's-1980's mindset before degree inflation and outsourcing made every degree worth as much as the paper it was printed on. Sure you can accrue 10-20k in loans, but if you land a 40-50k/yr job with your entirely relevant degree right out of the gates that number isn't so scary over the mid-long term especially since you used to be able to count on raises and promotions. That world is gone, but the mentality is still here. Now you're lucky if you leave with less than 30-40k in loans unless you already have a job that lets you pay your way through. And if you don't have a job good luck getting one within your first year.

Community colleges differ from state to state but you should look into them. They can allow you to sort of test the waters.

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>>131121500
Mind telling us what's going on here Bruce?

>>131113134
all those immigrants flooding our countries aren't gonna build their own houses are they?

>>131121224
1654.

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