Have you ever met an intelligent religious person?

>>131098932
Yawn....

>>131098932
Google some GK Chesterton vids, faggot. Not to mention TS Eliot, Aquinas, Calvin, Milton, Kierkegaard, hell, one could even consider Nietzsche "religious" if one isn't sporting a fedora.

>>131098932
Sure. Have you ever posted bait before, or is this your first time?

>>131099569
Nevermind, Nazis are dumb enough to trick I guess. Carry on.

C.S. Lewis, J.R.R.Tokien were both very religious. So we're about 85% of all US Presidents.

Question here is, have you ever met a smart atheist who wasn't terrified of dying?

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>>131098932
can't say that i have

>implying ricky isn't at least 140+ IQ
fuck outta here bud dont make me grab my sks

yes. my dad spent 20 years in the air force. started out as a nuclear weapons specialist, then worked in the intelligence community/air force media. after that he worked for nasa. he has an iq of 146. and now he's a pastor.

>>131098932
I genuinely have not. I know they're out there but I've yet to meet one.

>>131098932
I've met plenty of them. You find a few of them in engineering and medicine. Also quite a few pastors are high IQ.

>>131099501
Low IQ spotted

>>131099605
Have you ever fell for it or is this your first time?

We could do this all night

>>131101611
How do you think this happens?

>>131101890
Intelligence and skepticism needn't be inherently linked. One can be intelligent but fail to ask important questions due to his upbringing. I tend to think of it as, high intelligence makes it more likely that you'll have a skeptic outlook on reality, but it deosn't give guaranteed.

>>131098932
My Uni profesor for Prob and Statistics. Mathematicians can be conservative as fuck.

Never met an intelligent person reposting atheist memes though, now that you mention it.

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I have edited your image to display a more refined truth.

>>131098932
Here we go again. The short answer is whether you believe in God yourself is irrelevant. It's keeps a lot of shitdicks in line and allows western society to exist. Ever hear of the Golden Rule? Yeah. That's the main reason your pathetic ass lived long enough to make your shitty post.

>>131102193
I agree.

But, by what mechanism can people be so blind or apply so little or misguided scepticism to particular beliefs, do you think? It's quite amazing.

>>131098932
i am

>>131100688
Jihadists arent afraid of death.

>>131098932
No.

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>>131102403
>advocating to return to the ways of generations long ago
>/pol/ is also against drug use
yeah nah
Insults need to make sense for them to have any bite.

The problem with religion is that in order to believe in one, you must put aside all logic. That's a club I'd rather not belong to.

>>131101481
Your father is an alcoholic and a fiend

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>>131103168
Are you actually being serious right now my dude?

>>131103356
Yes. Aww, are you triggered?

>>131103356
16-19 year old who misunderstands atheism detected

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>>131103684
>>131103785
I used to be an atheist. Then I graduated highschool.

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>>131103356
>tips autism

>>131103954
So you started believing in things without sufficient evidence? Wew my laddo.

>>131103356
Not a fedora but what created god? Or what was before God?

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>>131103954

>>131102677
dubs.

>>131103996
Gays are pretty disgusting to be honest though.

>>131103954
So, even after knowing the solution to the magic trick, you still believe in magic. Cool story bro.

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>>131103996
>fedora tipper
>calling other autistic
whew

>>131104152
Exactly. As if theistic claims are any more rational.

The difference is one is based on a book, and the other is based on study, and doesn't necessarily lead to conclusions - unlike what the pic is implying. Intredasting that.

>>131098932
Yes, I also think some of their excuses are quite creative too.

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>>131100390

Religion is very dumb and for dumb people only. Le epic science, on the other hand, is extremely epic and rational and logical and if something isn't rational and logic it has no value at all. Science can be used to explain literally everything, even things like the creation of existence and the birth of consciousness. We can even use scientific formulas to pull morals from the ether.

Science is truly the most epic thing that has ever been epic.

>>131104233
Nah m8. Many people are atheists for very bad reasons.

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>>131104152
Man created the idea of God. Man aspires to be God. Religion filled a important philosophical goal that atheism has no answer for.

>>131104166
I never once said I was a theist, but it didn't stop you from going full autismo.
Atheism is literally just as retarded as theism.

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>>131104291

The difference is one is based on a book, and the other is based on study, and doesn't necessarily lead to conclusions - unlike what the pic is implying. Intredasting that.

Someone screencap this shit, dis niga retarded

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>>131104406

>>131103285
What did he mean by this?

>>131104511
God isn't a proper noun unless you're referring to him by name, my dude

>Atheism is literally just as retarded as theism.
doesn't understand agnostic atheism

predictable/10

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>>131104564
>>131104652
You are the cancer ruining /pol/

>>131104564
What's retarded about that my dude?

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>>131104727
You can't be both agnostic and atheistic. This is just some retarded phrase fedora tippers invented by mashing them together to make atheism less retarded. Agnosticism is the master race.

>>131104825
Stop

>>131105020
Gnosticism refers to knowledge
Theism refers to belief

Agnosticism isn't a valid belief position, please do your research. Estimated age 18

>>131105027
Seriously, explain

Atheists don't say, "I know there is no God." What Atheists say is, "I haven't seen evidence strong enough for me to believe in God."

Two very different things.

I grew up Catholic. Believed in it all my life until I was around 20/21 years old when I began thinking about it logically. I'm so glad I have escaped the irrational ball and chain that is religion. I'm an Atheist because I haven't seen any direct evidence of the Christian God for me to believe in him, in the same way I haven't seen any evidence of leprechauns, Buddha, Egyptian gods, Greek gods, Allah, or unicorns.

>>131100688

Who isn't afraid of dying. Shit, I'm religious and I would genuinely HATE to leave my loved ones behind along with any future Earthly experiences. Even if i go to heaven (where you can get basically whatever you want), experincing those things would be artificial and I would know deep down that what i would be experiencing is not real (much less the fact that I couldn't truly experience those things with my loved ones if they are alive).

P.S. - You just got duped dumbass; I'm agnostic, but just showed how your argument is invalid to even religious people. And I bet you'll try to call me stupid (or a dirty sinner) for this.

>>131098932

pea-brain: religion is true
normal-brain: atheism is true
big-brain: agnosticism is true
enlightened-brain: universe has some ontological purpose which requires it to be
transcendental-brain: Earth is 9000 years old.

>>131103996
god has never "appeared" in any religion visibly before Jesus Christ appeared. Its the definition of God that he is where people are Not. Then by Jesus it became that the holy spirit works through those who belive in Jesus.

Wich is true in a psychological sense. Ljung and Nietszcie both know you view the world through a lense of your beleifs, and if you belive in Jesus and belive that doing good is Good - your see the world through the spectrum of "what good can i do"

Have fun looking at the world through "why am i so worthless and not popular like normies" lense if you prefer that. But why the hell woud you choose such a horrible alter to kneel on?

>>131105362
>big-brain: agnosticism is true
implying atheism is a positive assertion no god(s) exist.. wew

John Romero.

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>>131105156
Repeating the lie over and over again will not make it any more true.

>>131105316
No. You are describing Agnosticism. Word for word.
Atheist are embarrassed they have to defend such a shitty poorly thought out position and try to lump themselves in with Agnostics.

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can we turn this into an atheist cringe thread

>>131103014
>>131103356
>>131103954
>>131104250
>>131104511
>>131104813
>>131105020

Can you post some fedora memes against me? I'm not sure if I'm still scared of the fedora meme but I was at one point. I need to know if social shaming still affects me. Give me your best fedora memes.

>no evidence for God
>no evidence for no God
>profound theological and existential discussion descends into name-calling

Every.

Damn.

Time.

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>>131105362

>>131105537
It already was

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>>131098932
Yes, multiple.
Does this answer your question?
I'm an atheist, so I hope it carries some weight.

>>131105532
Let me ask you a question, anon. Do you hold a belief in god(s)? Are you theist?

A light switch can't be half way between on and off.

>>131105441
to be fair I'm sure some atheists do make that assertion

>>131105397
For the trillionth time: if you need religion to have morals, you are subhuman. That is the literal definition.

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Which one of you did this?

>>131105565
Exactly.

So a-theism is the default position.

Pretty simps.

>>131105952
but what if you need religion to force others to conform to said morals

>>131105811
don't bother he's just going to come back at you with some retarded bullshit. He's too far gone and too determined to not label himself as an atheist.

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>>131105553
ok

>>131105811
>Do you hold a belief in god(s)
I am not sure. And it's not due to the lack of time spent thinking on the subject.

>A light switch can't be half way between on and off.
Belief in a idea structure isn't something you entire believe in or not. Their are grains of truth with in some of these tales. All of it is worth considerable study. To throw it all away "because god is dumb" is completely moronic and only something an atheist is capable of.

>>131098932
Have you ever not shitposted?

>>131105858
That is true, strong/gnostic atheists do, but they're as retarded as gnostic theists.

Just turns out gnostic atheism is very rare.

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>>131098932
Oh look: Another preachy evangelical atheist preaching and pushing her religion on us.

>>131098932

This is basically secular materialism in a nutshell...

>>131105565
The evidence of ''no - God'' is that.. there is no God.

Are you stupid?

>>131106126
If you're not sure you hold a belief then it means you do not hold a belief. You're by definition atheistic. You just reject the label because you've muddled your thinking, probably because of stigma.

Atheism is the default position, and agnosticism isn't a valid belief position. You can read about this my man.

>>131098932
Ricky wasn't religious, Ray was. And Ray was at least as smart as Julian.

>>131098932
A lot of them you fucking faggot , just because you are too fucking stupid to actually meet some people who value religion that does not mean that there arent intelligent religous people ( which there are and it is scientifically proven that a the vast majority of the smartest people in the world are actually religious).

>>131105663

Honestly I would be so disappointed to live in a universe where the last panel isn't true, though in a way more abstract way than even described there. Tho sometimes I think if there's no advantage to being a conscious being vs. a philosophical zombie then it makes no sense for humans to have evolved consciousness so maybe I'm the only conscious being and everything is an illusion I've come up with to distract myself from eternity.

Yes, many. Plus, most of the standout people in history were religious. Atheism is a new Jewish trend that is antithetical to human nature and invites hubris and narcissism.

>>131106087
You're right

Just got back from the pub and I need to sober up a bit before the snooze

>>131106365
RAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYFUK

>>131106380
Sorry for my grammar im drunk as hell

>>131102677
noice

>>131106062
Correct.
Organized religion serves as a tool of control, nothing more.

>>131106126
Sorry missed the second bit
>Their are grains of truth with in some of these tales
>Their

I'm not talking about tales, theism != religion

>To throw it all away "because god is dumb"

Who made that claim? I would make a claim that believing in a god is pretty dumb, however

>>131106474

What are you drinking? I had a Mountain Dew a few hours ago, do you like Mountain Dew?

>>131106126
>I am not sure.

Lol. You either believe in God or you don't. If you don't believe in God you can be unsure about whether or not he does exist all you want.

You can also believe in God, while also being unsure of whether or not he actually exists, but for whatever reason you choose to BELIEVE (eg. have faith) that he does exist, and thus be an agnostic theist.

Tbh whether you're an atheist or a theist, I think being agnostic is the only acceptable position. To unironically be gnostic is pretty retarded.

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>>131106327
>If you're not sure you hold a belief then it means you do not hold a belief.
Wrong. The state of unsure is a decision to take in itself, and to maintain it is a belief.

>You're by definition atheistic.
Wrong. You by definition are Agnostic, you've muddled your thinking, probably because of stigma (I understand atheism is quite fashionable in the UK right now, you must be so popular!)

>Atheism is the default position, and agnosticism isn't a valid belief position
Repeating a lie over and over will not make it come true.

>>131102193
Atheists arent skeptical. They make the assumption that the universe suddenly magically created itself out of nothing and morality doesnt exist and everyone who has ever lived except for atheists is wrong about everything then refuse to question any of those assumptions and dismiss anyone who asks them.

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Fuck, hand me a goddamn fedora for this one...

>>131098932
I've met smart religious people but I don't think it's possible to be intelligent and religious. Belief of religion requires suspension of logic; an intelligent person wouldn't engage in thought that requires suspension of such an innately human trait.

>>131105952
Maybe but only God can give any meaning to said morals.

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>>131098932
Mark Lanier. Millionaire trial lawyer from Houston.

https://lanierlawfirm.com/attorneys/w-mark-lanier.htm

I've heard him speak many times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF1tMDlZpUQ

>>131106673
Former atheist by the way.

>>131106365
>mfw too intelligent not to live in a dumpster with pissjuggs

>>131106582
and what is " more " it seems like that's the peak right there, literally being involved in every persons life and being a commanding if not forceful element.

>nothing more

>>131098932
yes

>>131098932
Don't sully Trailer Park Boys you fedoracucks

God exists, fags. And Jesus will judge you, as he will me. Repent, lest ye burn in hell for eternity.

>>131102403
wtf is "/pol"

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>>131098932
I can explain why atheism and agnosticism are logically untenable. But you'd have to actually be interested and not just be an edgy shitposter.

>>131106673
Or, hmm, maybe atheists really don't know the origin of the universe but are willing to take a leap of faith in science more so than they are willing to do the same for some book written thousands of years ago.

>>131106659
>You either believe in God or you don't.
I don't fall into either of these. He could exist, he may not. I can't prove it one way or another. Atheism is the lack of belief entirely, it's a stupid position.

>I think being agnostic is the only acceptable position
This is my entire point. What are you trying to prove?

>>131106605
Yes, a typo, so sad.
You can't draw the grains of truth out of the text if you believe that just the belief of god is dumb. It is necessary to understand the context of the tales and the motivations of the people within them. You have to understand how they saw god as a omnipotent force present throughout everything that spoke to them the universal truth of the reality we live in. You have a 19th century Englishmans understanding of the world.

>>131106673
>universe suddenly magically created itself out of nothing
I like the way people say it. As if there's this God guy living just behind the corner doing miracles when he feels like it and atheists are being tsundere not believing him he created the universe. No fags prove god than we're talking.

>>131106661
>Wrong. The state of unsure is a decision to take in itself, and to maintain it is a belief.
You're confusing knowledge with belief, again. Being unsure is a position referring to gnosticism, it says nothing about your belief position. This is pretty simple stuff.

>Wrong. You by definition are Agnostic, you've muddled your thinking, probably because of stigma (I understand atheism is quite fashionable in the UK right now, you must be so popular!)

I would agree I'm agnostic, yes. I don't have knowledge of god(s). I also don't have any evidence of their potential existence. So the rational (and default) position to hold is agnostic atheism. Religiosity in the UK has been low for a very long time my dude, and I'm 30. Sounds like you have a lot to learn.

>Repeating a lie over and over will not make it come true.
Indeed

Are you just on a ruse cruise here?

>>131107156
>a nazi having anything logical to say
lol. I'm all ears though. carry on.

>>131107156
>I can explain why atheism and agnosticism are logically untenable.
Do it

>>131106673
Atheism doesn't pertain to anything other than a lack of belief in god(s). What your asserting is based on your imaginings.

If you want to know what an atheist thinks of, say, abiogenesis, then just ask them. It's not hard.

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>>131106126
>cutting up your child's dick to appease your angry god
tell me more about how a fedora is more shameful
you're literally trying to push a meme about bad hats when you support child genital mutilation based on fairytales?
are you fucking serious?

>>131106365
Ray literally thinks you can Jumpstart a car by hooking it up to a lawnmower

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>>131103285

why do man-children become atheists en mass

and why do man children even exist in such mass number when women children arent a thing, why are men so easily defeated and made into pathetic neck beards

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Why is Atheism such a thing in anglo countries(mainly North America)?

"atheist" countries such as Sweden and Czech Republic isn't like this, if you were to ask people at random if they are an atheist they would just look at you weird and wonder why you would ask them that.

basically only in North America is atheism such a fucking identity

does it all stem from the fact that you all suffer from such a muh daddy oppressed me with his religious views syndrome or wtf is going on?

I've never met a Christian in my life, i've never met a person who is a Christian and i'm not sure whether or not I've met an ATHEIST.

>>131098932
My father in law is a literal rocket scientist and a practicing Catholic. But my own father argued cases in the USSC and is basically an athiest.

>>131107184
>Atheism is the lack of belief entirely, it's a stupid position.

Can you say that again to yourself, perhaps 10 times, and keep a straight face?

Do you lack belief in trolls or unicorns? Why? Is that a stupid position to hold, or quite a rational one?

I don't care about tales.

>>131107646
Delete that image from your hd.

>>131107646
>I've never met a Christian in my life
Good thing you have enough muslims there kaffir

These threads have a certain 4chan tinge to them you can't find on other sites.

I've been banned from every atheist forum I've ever been on, so I mostly gave up arguing about this online. I feel as though people often can't look past the social aspect of it. When I get down to the actual issue, I can't be sure if God exists or not, although I have prayed before and had things come true, and I've had that gut feeling when I'm praying and all that. But I can't help but wonder if that's all mental trickery.

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>>131107224
Again. You just continue down the spiral with your circular logic. And then you try to appeal to your age as if it give you authority on this subject.

>>131107373
>If you want to know what an atheist thinks of, say, abiogenesis, then just ask them.
Why would you need to do that? Just mention god one single time and watch them throw an autismo fit and take offense.

>>131107689
A troll or unicorn tale isn't meant to explain the universal truth in our existence. Again you just cheapen all religion and reduce any conversation of it down to slander and mockery refusing to allow any actually discourse to take place.

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>>131107750
joke is on you, i have two

>>131108019
>actually
actual

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>>131107646
British arrogance at it's worse. And it rubbed off on every anglo country.

>>131103168
In order to read the classics you need to do the same.

Pro-tip for spergs like you: Christian Fundamentalists are very few and far between. Most Christians are motivated by Pascals Wager and don't need sperg-tier certainty.

>>131107940
>mental trickery.
You know considering how many people claim to be right on the subject from personal exp (and all say different things) you'd have to have a huge ego to think you got it correct. I mean what are you, a super God detector 3000, much better than all those shitty god-searching human-detectors?

>>131108019
>Again. You just continue down the spiral with your circular logic. And then you try to appeal to your age as if it give you authority on this subject.

What's circular in my logic? Point out the flaws.

I'm referring to my age as it pertains to me being less susceptible to social trends (popular atheism?), and that I have a reasonable authority to say the UK's religiosity has been low for quite a while. I'm not sure why you misunderstood that.

>Why would you need to do that? Just mention god one single time and watch them throw an autismo fit and take offense.

Maybe that's your problem

>Again you just cheapen all religion

I'm not talking about religion. I haven't mentioned religion once. I'm talking about theism. Pretty simple stuff.

You're literally making shit up.

>>131108317

I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say to me here. I have no idea if my experiences with 'God' were just mental trickery or if they were real. What if I or someone else wholeheartedly believed in God, but he was still not real? And what if someone dedicates a huge chunk of their lives to being an atheist, but then God is real? A lot of effort going to waste either way.

>>131108019
I've just had a thought.

As an experiment, try to describe what you think my position is.

You already know I'm an agnostic atheist, I'm just curious how your mind frames it.

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greatest logician of the 20th centry was a Christian

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>>131100688
Only a special fool wouldn't have apprehensions about dying. Anyone who is glad to die or to "give his life for the cause" is a pawn.

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>>131103285
are you da jokah baby?

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>>131103356
>theists cuts out the middleman by creating an even larger middleman that involves his own version of morality
Pleb

>>131107377
>>cutting up your child's dick to appease your angry god

>tell me more about how a fedora is more shameful
>you're literally trying to push a meme about bad hats when you support child genital mutilation based on fairytales?

Chemically castrating your son because some other fedora tipper convinced you that gender is fluid but not in any was that existing science can measure. That shit's pretty goddamned demented.

>>131098932
I have, I think some where deep down they know their religion is bull shit but hope on the off chance it is real their devotion will earn them a place in heaven. Some time even I get scared that one of them might be real.

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>>131109197
>>131109269
>>131109410
looks like this thread is an empty spook ;^)

>>131106380
Yeah your going to have to cite shit like that drunko.

>>131109410
This goy gets it

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>>131107156
No you can not, your full of shit.

>>131107156
Please do. I will be patient

I've never met an intelligent atheist.

>>131109785
I just posted a coles note version of his theory.

>>131109917
I think we all know that is a lie.

>>131109917
I guess maybe atheism truly is a 'trend' in America then. That's a shame.

>>131109442
this isn't regular atheist practice like genital mutilation is for christians

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>>131098932

>>131105362

9000? How did you figure it out?

>>131110072
Atheists don't have any practises. They aren't a group.

>>131108503
>Maybe that's your problem
>I know u are but what am I
Now this is some high level discourse

>I haven't mentioned religion once. I'm talking about theism
Splitting hairs to the point of being a disrespectful cunt is a rather annoying trait to have and won't help you make friends.

>>131108832
You hold the belief that any belief in omnipotent forces is stupid.

>>131108686
>dedicates a huge chunk of their lives to being an atheist

Not how it works I'm afraid, I know where you're coming from, but you don't need effort to lack belief.

I mean you can think about it once in a while, but it takes only a tiny amount of time to realise believing in something without evidence is quite silly.

>inb4 implying atheists make positive assertions god(s) don't exist

>>131108198
Anti-Anglo!

>>131105316
What makes you think many religious people arent saying the same thing?

People deal with uncertainty in different ways.

>>131110069
British arrogance is a rather annoying trait to have Nigel. You have so very little to feel arrogant about these days.

Remember that time atheists started a country? It was called the Soviet Union and it was a nightmare. :^)

>>131106412

Hey look at the bright side. Some days you come on this site and who knows maybe god browses /pol/ and replies to your post one day and gives you a ((you)) just to remind you that your special.

>>131110440

That makes no sense. You and others are very visibly advertising their atheism in this very thread. I didn't know what the fedora meme was until 2014. I didn't go on the chans hardly ever at the time and I went on a lot of atheist forums. Those guys based their entire identities around being atheists.

>>131098932
One thing is for sure. You're not going to find one out here. Take a break from your hate and go to church. Sounds like you need it.

>>131110301
I'm not splitting hairs. Religion is quite different to theism. I have several theistic friends, they're not religious.

Not quite, I don't hold a belief. I lack a belief in god(s) because I haven't been convinced by god claims. It does follow that it seems a bit silly to me why people would hold a belief without evidence, yes.

I'm very prepared to accept reasonable evidence for the existence of god(s).. which is why I'm agnostic. I'm atheist because I don't hold a belief in god(s).

>I know u are but what am I
What drugs are you on my lad

>>131098932
Yes.

>>131110566
Struggling to find the relevance

>>131110708
What makes no sense?

>>131100688
Its 'were' not 'we're' American presidents, and I would hazard that since no one can see inside your heads, the religiousity of your presidents is likely as much manipulation of the public as genuinely presented belief.
Few politicians could successfully campaign on a basis of abandoning a countrys historical traditions, even in a rising tide of post-enlightenment reason.

>>131111029

>Not how it works I'm afraid, I know where you're coming from, but you don't need effort to lack belief

That. Again, I was a regular in atheist online communities for years. But I was a mix between a troll on the fringes and a 'regular' poster type. Although I could never make many posts on forums like other guys do. Point is, those guys had entire online identities and real lives set up around being atheists. You're wrong that it doesn't take effort to lack a belief. Those guys would circlejerk with other atheists, argue with religious people online constantly, and make a point in real life of boldly standing out with their atheism. If that isn't effort then I don't know what is.

>>131110083
You do realise that C.S. Lewis was a christian, right?

>>131110598
>He doesn't know that the communist revolution was headed by Jews.
Someone post the chart that gives the percentage of jews in positions of the various party institutions, I forgot to save it.

>>131105537
is the water hot and or does he have something in his ass

>>131110072
But it's athiestic in origin. Just like circumcision is Judeo Christian in origin. And if you were capable of intellectual honesty, you'd concede that an American athiest is more likely to circumcise their son than a European Christian.

One of your ersatz demi-gods, Baysian Statistical Inference, commands it.

>>131104152
Nothing. Out of nothing, comes nothing

>>131111345
Ok I get ya, the meme makes sense, but what I said was

>but you don't NEED effort to lack belief

It's not a requirement. If groups of people like to act in a certain obnoxious way because they share something in common then they'll do that.

Doesn't really change anything about atheism as a position.

>>131104152
Nothing created God and probably nothing existed before God since he is eternal, unless there are other things that are eternal?

>>131111714
>since he is eternal

How do you know that, incidentally?

>>131099652

>I have never picked up a single book in theology: the post

>>131111832
The Bible, have you heard of it?

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Study comparative mythology.
The empirical existence of the semitic large g god doesn't matter. You'll have a better understanding of why a certain group does the things they do once you're familiar with theology.

nope

>>131111635

>If groups of people like to act in a certain obnoxious way because they share something in common then they'll do that

>but you don't NEED effort to lack belief

My original point was that I will be eternally bothered by the idea that no matter what side I choose, each side may be wrong and everything they do will be in vain. I can freely admit I see no valid proof for God's existence. But others are different. You may not absolutely need effort to lack belief, but then most people who live on the planet believe in God by default. That is how their brains work.

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>>131103356

>all these butthurt replies

pic unrelated

>>131111923
Let's try again

How do you KNOW that?

>>131098932
Cs Lewis
Gregor Mendel
JRR Tolking

>>131098932
>Christian
>IQ of 106

>>131112081
wtf is going on here?

Because it says so in the Bible, you know the book where Christians get their knowledge, history and understanding of God from?

>>131111978
>believe in God by default. That is how their brains work.

Kinda sceptical of that, but I know what you mean. Culture is an enormous influence, remember.

What do you believe incidentally?

>>131112310
Seriously..

Ok, how can you trust what you read in a book? How is that authoritative? Because other people said it was?

>>131104068
Sufficient evidence is relative to the jury examining it
It's what one presuposses prior to examination of said evidence

>>131098932
I'm christian and although I don't consider myself to be intelligent, I usually score between 120 and 130 on IQ scores. Then again, I don't think IQ is a valid way to analyze intelligence

>>131104564
A book?
You mean many many books

>>131100688
>terrified of dying
but anon, being religious is the definition of being afraid of dying. why else would you make up stuff just to make you feel better about the afterlife

>>131098932
Yes, often.

>>131112450
christians are literally retarded. You'll never get past this point with them.

They're literally fucking retarded. They can't possibly comprehend that their faggot book isn't the word of God. They're just too stupid or something.

It's infuriating, so I advise you to stop immediately, or risk a headache.

>>131112510
I agree. The evidence certainly isn't sufficient for me, though.

Are you convinced?

>>131112450
>actually just described the entirety of a consensus-based dominating opinion known as science

>>131105156
How about someone who knows God exists but tricked himself subconsciously into not believing in God

>>131112717
It's aight my dude, it has to start with these questions.

>>131111375
its hot oil

>>131112765
Scientific results can be independently verified. Words in a book about some zombie man are not.

>>131112765
the difference is, everything within the body of scientific knowledge is verifiable. That's what makes it science. You can understand the theories, and test them. You can do the math, an set up an experiment, and see if it works. Everything is verifiable if you work hard enough.

Just because some people don't bother doing that, and relegate that to scientists, and simply trust them, doesn't change the fact that everything could be personally verified by YOU if you put in enough effort.

Nothing in your faggot book is verifiable. It's just a book. And you claim it as fact. And whenever anynone points this out you chimp out and strawman and do everything within your ability to avoid admitting that it's just a book, and there's no proof for any of your retarded beliefs.

Fuck you.

>>131113003
can not*

>>131112363

God is a substitute for what we don't understand. If you want to see it from an atheist perspective. So yes, it would only make sense that so many people in the world believe in God to either explain the world around them or for fear of their own mortality.

I "believe" that life mostly has scientific explanations, although there may be some mystical overtones which we may overlook. Like I said up above, I have prayed to God and got good gut feelings and last year a lot of the things I prayed for came true. But I have no way of knowing if those things happened by mere coincidence or not. My true self believes that there is no proper evidence for God's existence. But that doesn't mean that God doesn't exist just because my brain won't accept proof of his existence.

>>131112730
It's all about one presuposes
If someone presuposes that the supernatural is impossible, unless that presuposition is challenged, that person could never believe in Christian doctrine


Christian by the way

>>131112450
This is why people hate atheists.

You're asking why someones religion says God is eternal and he tells you because his holy book says so(the basic authority of the entire religion) and then you say you that it's not authoritative enough.

>>131103356
Big bang isn't a belief though. It's a conjecture formed from observation. Unlike your sky wizard, if a better one comes along, it will replace the big bang.

What if a god exists above your god? How would you know, and how would your god know?

Doesn't this make the whole point of religion moot?

>>131112269
not great

>>131112682
If I made it up
Why would I make up hell
Why not make up proportional suffering or everyone goes to heaven

If I didn't believe it was true
I wouldn't bother with it

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>all this butthurt christfags wasting their time typing to people that don't care

>>131113133
Well, I don't presuppose supernatural things are impossible. But as their nature is not natural (super natural) we cannot verify them.

Puts me back straight to the beginning. If it can't be tested or verified, then it's not reasonable to believe in.

The sad thing is is that atheists are right about Christians: Christians are generally inept at defending their own ideology- offering up laughable arguments for God that rely on probability rather than a rational demonstration. Who can blame them? The philosophical basis of Christianity has long been stamped out of churches, replaced by the "Enlightenment-approved" Frankstein's monster known as Protestantism. The truth is there are very few true Christians left- and even fewer who can make a proper case for God. This all plays into the atheist worldview that Christianity is basically indefensible.

I'll bet that 9 out of 10 atheists in this thread have not even heard of the concept of final causes. Sad.

>>131113182
>he tells you because his holy book says so(the basic authority of the entire religion) and then you say you that it's not authoritative enough.

Well it's not. How do I tell between that book and a Spider-Man comic that claims he's swinging around New York?

1 post by i.d.
>Sage
>a
>g
>e

>>131113234
>>131113234
Although those rules of observation have to be assumed to be true in order for one to be able to observe the Big Bang theory

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>>131113004

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>>131098932

>Atheists
>smart

>Implying

>>131113234
Das it mane

>>131113402
So you are agnostic on the supernatural question

>>131101481
Your father is a queef working for tha white devil

>>131113255
Not really.

Even if the only way this could be true is if our God is not eternal, then we would just be one floor lower than what we previously thought. Doesn't really impact us just as your boss having a boss doesn't really impact you in any direct way.

>>131102532
some people ask a lot of questions about their belief, and then still find that they believe, but with certainty instead of doubt. Try consulting a high IQ pastor and asking why they still believe, they will provide very reasonable answers for their reason of belief.

Just because they choose to believe in something that cannot be empirically proven does not mean they are stupid or unreasonable. That is a lie propagated by unreasonable atheists.

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>>131098932
I suppose, not saying much from my standpoint though.

>>131113308
Not horrible though.

>>131113590
Absolutely. It'd be unreasonable to be gnostic on it.

I'm an agnostic atheist, btw.

Ok so I will explain why it's actually illogical to be an atheist and an agnostic.

The reason an atheist or an agnostic say they don't believe or are currently indifferent about the existence of God is almost always invariably going to be: there is no evidence.

Yet if you examine this statement., the assumption that evidence can be provided for God is simply wrong. God by definition is omnipotent and omniscient. Thus even if you wanted to test in lab settings for the existence of God, you would never be able to gather enough evidence for a being that can do an infinite amount things in an infinite amount of ways. All you can do with materialistic considerations and science in general is prove specific models, and not even in a very stable way, considering all the instability from residuals in factor based modelling and confidence intervals, margin of error etc.

The bible, and specifically Christian teachings (speaking in a non denominational way) all emphasize faith in one way or another. Jesus teaches that faith and loving one's neighbor are the highest laws to bring forth "the kingdom of heaven".

So now that we established that the presupposition of the arguyment "there is no evidence" is false in its logical application, such that God stands outside the limits of scientific testing you have to ask your self not "why" based upon the ontological nature of God or physical existence, but rather, what benefits are there for someone to believing in God and following Jesus's teachings?

Well we can see the benefits. Christian based European society became the most prosperous, beautiful, advanced. And when did western civilization start to falter? When we embraced secularism. The most secular nations currently are the most cucked. Sweden the rape capital of the world, modern Germany etc. all of which are currently experiencing a cultural and scientific depression.

cont.

>>131113361
I actually enjoy hearing other people's viewpoints sir.

>>131098932

Never met an intelligent person who hasn't spent time pondering and considering religion, spirituality and theism.

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>>131113483
One is a religous book that deals with the existence of God in a real and philosophical way and the other one is about a man-spider...

>>131113702
> does not mean they are stupid or unreasonable.

I would agree it doesn't make them stupid necessarily, but I would say it makes them quite unreasonable

Appreciate your point, though.

>>131110072
I don't know what drugs you are on, but Last i checked Circumcision is not a Christian practice.

Maybe its because i'm Presbyterian.

>>131113445
/thread

>>131113868
You're right.

What if the Spider-Man book dealt with the existence of god(s) then? Does that then make it important?

You can see where this is going.

>>131113762
So we see that faith has given Europeans a platform to advance our society further. Not just spiritually, but intellectually, morally, and even physically (aesthetics wise).

Observing history and how various religious beliefs or cultural habits take form in society, Christian white homogeneous societies with a faith in a higher ideal (God, racial ideals etc.) have been the most successful.

Whereas most recently, the societies which have no ideals, which abandon God, which abandon faith and loving one's neighbor and other values which are not necessarily strictly religious but somewhat related to European development like being racially conscious have created the most disgusting debt ridden, shitstained evil society this world has seen since the 20's Wiemar.

I can also expand into the nature of transcendentals in the Kantian sense, and why they are relevant to the consideration of: objective morality, truth, mathematics, and reason. I can also explain the relationship between these transcendentals and the material.

>>131113935
No, but it is a hygiene practice.

>>131113514
>merely pretending

>>131113741
Well atheism is merely the lack of belief in God, you can learn more about someone's world view by asking what they do believe in.
So what would convince you that the supernatural exists?
And how could you decifer it from natural phenomenon?

>>131113762
The scientific method doesn't require it to gather an infinite amount of evidence to prove an infinite being though, all it would need is to gather SOME evidence and that would be enough to point toward a scientific conclusion/theory.

>>131098932

Many, OP, but none who were Muslim.

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The fact that the majority /pol/ appreciates Christianity- not because they are faithful but because they consider the social mind control it brings to be beneficial to society should tell you enough


No, there are no intelligent religious people in the modern world. Because once you become intelligent, you stop being religious

>But hurrr what about this one scientist from 600 years ago

>>131113903
>Appreciate your point, though.
thanks.

I'm curious, have you ever tried talking about atheistm and theology with a high-IQ pastor/father? Lot's of atheists i have talked with usually answer no when they are not trying to sound like they know what they are talking about.

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>>131114113

>>131114174
But someone presuposes that the scientific method works

>>131113702
>high IQ
>pastor

pick one

>>131114174
False, central limit theorem applies to finite considerations.

You cannot map an infinite in a physical way, because nothing in the material world is infinite, everything is temporal.

>>131114138
>So what would convince you that the supernatural exists?

I'm not sure, that's a very hard question to answer if you take time to think about it.

>And how could you decifer it from natural phenomenon?

It would need to be independently verifiable. Ideally repeatable.

>>131114219
Many scientists believe in God
Don't be confuse belief in God with creationism

By the way, you know God exists, you just want to sin

>>131114015
>What if the Spider-Man book dealt with the existence of god(s) then? Does that then make it important?
Yes? Why wouldn't it? If Spider-Man books gave philosophical insight and arguments about the metaphysical existence of a God then why wouldn't it be considered important in the discussion of a metaphysical God?

Is Plato completely useless just because his ideas can't be replicated in a lab?

>>131098932
Just saw a tucker vid where a Christian was mad at trump for something about not getting his $42million for refugees. Dude was screaming muh Christian duty.
I don't like Christians. Literal Jewish cucks

Honestly, I think it's more to do with someone going completely against the grain, to the point where they get a lot of supporters and detractors (either while they're alive or from their writing after they die), and they make such a ripple effect that people keep talking about them and disseminating their stories and deeds down through history until they become legendary. If you look at people like Lao Tzu or the Buddha, they literally said, "Don't worship me. Don't turn me into a god. When I die, I'll just be dead. Just learn from my teachings and make yourself better." Look how that turned out...

>>131098932
Actually, wrong. Islam started when Muhammad decided he wanted a good reason to let him bang a nine year old girl.

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>>131113935
ritual genital mutilation and ritual cannibalism are both christian practices

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transubstantiation

> the substance, or essence, of the Eucharistic offering is changed into both the body and blood of Christ

eating the human flesh and blood of your god
how degenerate

>>131114366
Your requirements are absurd and it demonstrates that you're not intelligent enough to differentiate from materialistic considerations and abstract reason based ones.

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>>131114271
>Anarchist
>mfw an actual idiot is the judge of high and low IQ

>>131114221
I'd be open to talking to anyone about it. Despite what people may think about atheists in general, there's no doubt the topic is fascinating because it affects us all.

I might not hold a belief in god(s), but that doesn't mean that my worldview is all of a sudden golden.. it's fucking confusing still.

Being confused isn't enough to make me believe something unduly, though.

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>>131114219

>No, there are no intelligent religious people in the modern world. Because once you become intelligent, you stop being religious

Well said fellow humanist. Who needs phony gods anyway? I gain enlightenment from my own intelligence.

>>131114219
I have an IQ of 146. Ordered the legitimate mensa test to be sure.

I am a non denominational Christian. Your statement is frightfully arrogant, and I'd venture to surmise you are a parasite, a jew. Incapable of non materialistic considerations.

>>131114366
So I guess unless God himself somehow convinced you by a supernatural force
It would be unreasonable to be a Christian?

>>131114271

>flag

Pot calling the kettle black

Christian with 138 iq checking in

>>131114526
My requirements being that convincing evidence would need to be independently verifiable and repeatable?

How is that absurd?

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>>131114583
>>131114710


Sure I'm just a big poopy head and you are the king of right.

>>131114572
>Being confused isn't enough to make me believe something unduly, though.
fair enough. Make that decision on your own time, but just in case there is a God i would suggest figuring that out sooner than later.

Visit your local pastor today if you have the time, after all, it's summer :^)

>>131114219
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/24/opinion/la-oe-masci24-2009nov24

that's a bit broad caricature. addedly, highest atheist concentrations in the academia are found in social sciences

>>131114742
If I couldn't verify with peers that god was intervening with me, then it's indistinguishable from mental illness.

>>131114780
Although the supernatural by definition is something that can't be verified by natural testing
The same with historical evidence

>>131098932
no but I met Ricky at a bar in MTL one time eh

>>131114780

There is no evidence for God since God necessarily exists outside the material realm and thus cannot be empirically detected.

God, however, can be rationally demonstrated to exist. Look up the Five Ways.

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>>131113741
>>131113590

WTF. Stop having discussions like everythings cool

Don't you know that he's a fedora tipping edgy atheist amerifat??

And don't you know that he's a stupid christian fundie britbong?

You two make me sick.
Lay into each other. NOW.

>>131114859
Thanks, but I would point you towards Pascal's Wager.

>>131114904
True
But it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that an omnipotent God could reveal himself to you in a way you could be certain.

>>131114780
Because you cannot gather evidence for an infinite being that can do an infinite amount of things in an infinite amount of ways.

It's a misuse of logic, you are applying a certain logical standard erroneously to something which is outside of your standard's limits. You're applying a standard to hypothesis testing which cannot ever be satiated, thus setting yourself up for failure before you even begin.

>>131114975
I don't believe you, but I will, thanks anon

>is anyone else getting captchas for shit that doesn't exist in the image?

>>131114994
I think you mixed things up abit

>>131098932
I have never met an intellectually honest religious person.

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>>131114846
The jewish mind doesn't deserve to exist on this bountiful planet.

>>131115136
aye

>>131115091
I'm not in a position to say whether that's true or not, I've never experienced something that made me certain without evidence.. not saying it couldn't happen but it would be certainly unusual. The likelihood of that is indeterminate to me.

>>131114846

Mate, you literally just dropped a quote that approached the cringe-worthiness of the original 'euphoric' quote on lebbit.

>No, there are no intelligent religious people in the modern world. Because once you become intelligent, you stop being religious

You are a walking meme. You are the reason atheists are derided on this board.

>>131114780
Read Rene Descartes meditations on first philosophy.
Something i have learned in life is that empirical proofs are not the only proofs which are legitimate, but one of many proofs.
There is no empirical proof that the past ever happened, for all we know the world was created yesterday and all the carbon dating instruments are wrong.

I have no empirical proof of God, only logical proofs work, and even then one can never know with complete certainty if God exists.

Something i have found is that Atheists, like Theists, have an element of faith in their world-view, since they make a conclusion on inconclusive eviences that they find, and from that infer God's existence or lack thereof without ever having witnessed him.

>>131115309
But can you know anything with absolute certainty?

>>131115359

Replied to the wrong person

>>131114939
So if you can't detect it, test it, or verify it, why is it reasonable to hold a belief?

>>131098932
Yes, I have actually

>>131100688
That's all in your head. Funerals are sad, and almost everybody hates and fears dying. Waving a bible around is just whistling past the graveyard, friend.

>>131115419
Finally, someone gets it!

>>131115493
Personal experience of the Holy Spirit
Was an atheist prior to becoming a Christian

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Daily reminder the smartest man to ever live was a Christian Lutheran.

Carl Frederich Gauss.

>>131115130
So, how would you propose I become convinced?

And would you consider it reasonable?

>>131115634
Seek God out
Ask him do reveal himself to you regularly

>>131115419
Of course not, would one need to? We don't operate like that.

Remember my position isn't in the business of making claims anyway.

>>131114349
What do you mean? Does this mean you can't reach the conclusion that snowflakes have an infinite number of shapes(implying they do) by studying an finite number of snowflakes?

>>131115493
Might i interject?
Many people will beleive that evidence must be of a material kind, but there can exist evidences outside of the material. For example: We can conceive the idea of a true void (an absence of all things) without having experienced said vacuum, likewise with God. The Ontological argument is a valid proof/evidence which utilizes nothing of the material to prove a point.

>>131115780
So than you can't know anything to be true?

>>131108503
They won't abide by the rules of debate and will instead divert, strawman and evade the question.
They acknowledge that circular logic is flawed only to the point that they can accuse you of it, and the only argument I've seen them make is
"Because god could explain (everything) therefore god explains everything"
which ignores the lack of an explanation for god. The explanation is used as the justification.

A counter would be: humans have invented gods. It would stand to reason that a god is an invention.

>>131115371
Interesting, sounds like what people are saying about Peterson.

>>131098932
You have now.
I am one.
Hello.

>>131115603
What a grand claim.
Now you just have to substantiate it.

>>131115585
How do you know you aren't mentally ill? Or your experience wasn't delusion?

What happened incidentally?

>>131113762

So you're essentially trying to say that since we can't 'prove' God in a worldly scientific manner, then that means we can't debunk God, so that leaves us with the option of concluding God exists, yes? Cultural and social benefits of religion aside, if it's impossible to provide good evidence for God then resting it on faith alone means that atheists can tell you that you have no proof and it would be correct. If we go by your logic, that is.

>>131115746
>Ask him do reveal himself to you regularly
>priest shows you his dick
no, thx

>>131115746
How?

What convinced you to do so when you weren't convinced of him in the first place? Other people told you, right?

>>131098932
Yes but I have never met a non-Marxist Atheist person

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>>131098932
Have you ever seen an interesting slide thread?

>>131115865
who is peterson?

It sure is friday, here is osme music for y'all to enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQpsI2QrAO8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic7StOMRBOU

>>131115946
Because if I was to reject God
It would be impossible for me to know anything to be true

>>131098932
I'm a lifelong atheist and the most Christian person I know has a masters in Theoretical Physics and is now going for a PhD.
The only reason religious people have a reputation for being retards is because the intelligent ones don't spout their faith publicly.

>>131115847
Well, logical absolutes etc, but generally no, I wouldn't claim to know anything with 100% certainty. Isn't that absurd?

It doesn't mean things don't have weightings, though. God claims aren't just as equally likely as the findings in a repeatable study, just because both can't be verified as 100% true or false.

>>131098932
my only issue with religion is that most of its followers believe there is only one true path and one right way to live your life.

I simply can't abide that mentality.

>>131115977
Of course not because you know God exists
But you want to be your own authority so you supress the truth that God exists

>>131116107
You dont see the house of cards logic of that?

>>131115793
>We can conceive the idea of a true void (an absence of all things)

Are you sure we can do that? It's not as simple as you make it sound.

>>131116107
Yeah I don't think that makes any sense to me my dude

>>131116107
That's something i find quite interesting about God.
Whether he exist or not, one thing is certain about him: He acts as a bedrock, or standard, or all good things.
Moral objectivity cannot exist without a standard, Christ is that Standard.
Truth cannot be certain without there being a standard truth givr: God imparts trancendental truths through the biblical narratives.

There are probably more ways that God acts as a universal standard, but i can't think of any more.

S'more music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52Gg9CqhbP8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzyd4Vx6afg

relevant to the thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3xg28yaZ5E

>>131116014
I guess it was just a form of rebellion
I think Romans 1:18-22 explains the heart of an unbeliever the best

>>131116188
How do you know logical absolutes are true
Can you verify that they are true or are they just self evident?

>>131116513
Rebellion against what? You lost me

>>131116253
Show me how you can know something to be true without God

>>131116286
I'm sure about it.
Ask anyone to picture an absolute void, and they can imagine the abstract idea of that nothingness.

Thsi thread is sliding, so this is now partly a music thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7Z99cGSfzs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neSQgkEy_xQ

>>131116251
ooh, you're so deep and wise and knowing!
please tell me more about myself and your deep personal relationship with your lord and savior jesus h christ
tell me about how i'm lost and just scared to accept love and whatever other bullshit is typed out on your con man script
let the bullshit flow through you
go full projection mode

>>131116696
1 + 1 = 2

>>131116412
You won't get it until it happens

>>131116618
I was using the logical absolutes as an example of where things might be a bit more clear cut, I don't know too much about it otherwise.

I believe I can't verify anything 100%.. that's not to say we can't be 100% correct about something, it's just whether we can verify it. Why?

>>131116692
Romans 1:18-22 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools

This pretty much sums up what I'm talking about