Is taxation theft?

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>>131054860
it's slavery

>>131054860
but the first is mugging and the second s just a nigger getting removed.

Of course it is none of us should pay any taxes at all. I think this would work well.

>>131054860
Without taxation he wouldn't have a badge. Figure it out yourself

>>131054860
Taxation is not theft.
State mandated usury that the citizens have to pay in the end, is theft and slavery on the other hand.

>>131054860
Taxes are voluntary. If you don't want to pay them, then all you have to do is leave the country

>>131054860
Yes. Unfortunately, it is also necessary in order to maintain military initiative.

>>131055369
>Being robbed is voluntary
>If you dont like it just leave :)

>>131054860
its extortion, but so is rent

>>131054890
This. Welcome to the rice fields.

>>131055495
Yes? If a street mugger would let me leave with my belongings then it wouldn't be much of a robbery, would it?

Yes. By definition.

People who disagree aren't worth arguing with.

People who understand that there is some degree of theft most will tolerate are.

>>131055495
you can kys, so life is voluntary

>>131055354
this guy gets it.

Income tax is basically the government telling you that they own you, and are taking their cut of what you generate as is their right.

Not theft, just slavery

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>>131054860

>>131054860
The state provides you with services that need to be paid for.
Now taking my money and giving it to someone else, that's theft.

>>131054860
Taxation is no more theft than property is.

Theft assumes there is some greater authority that gives you a right to property. You can make all kinds of philosophical or axiomatic reason, and they might even be good reason, but niggers will just mob together and attack you.

The world works on Power. Whites are genetically built to form communities where most feel guilty even if they aren't caught. Keeping a harmonious community of whites together requires insuring a safetynet for the randomly unlucky. You need the poor whites to fight off the mongrel hoards.

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Taxation is the right and proper way to control commoners and other filth.

>>131056274
Nigger

>>131054860
Its theft when it comes to taxing millionaires and billionaires. US government literally steals thousands and even millions of dollars from them every year just because they're successful. What kind of lesson does that teach the public? Once you become successful it's time to hand over your success?

Poor people and lower middle class I could careless if there taxed. There bottom barrel scum anyways.

>>131056737
>implying big business doesnt benefit from big government

Taxation is charity. It allows people who don't give to a charity that helps the poor to not feel too bad about themselves and get on with life without feeling greedy.

>>131055681
They're not leaving without having taken some of your belongings and if you resist, you get beaten up. Much like with taxation, there is no option.

>>131057500
>Forced charity

So theft then. It doesn't matter where the money goes, theft is theft.

>>131054860
yes, but some people (we call them socialists but you might call them republicans or democrats) accept violence as a guiding principle for organizing society -- thus they create the antifa that they deserve, as there is no way to establish "might makes right" without tacitly admitting that power can just be taken from you with _more_ violence and no legitimacy is inherently lost on behalf of the usurper. any old robin hood will do; the people will accept it.

>>131055466
you're wearing the wrong flag, you absolute faggot.

>>131055782
>we unilaterally decide what fair is
>if you don't like it you can't opt out :^)
at least in europe they never had actual freedom. americans are actually worse cucks in every way, even if every last white person vanishes from the rest of the earth.

>>131057970
you can renounce your citizenship when you become an adult, whats the issue

>>131057547
>Much like with taxation, there is no option
I already told you. You do have an option: leave the country. It's not my fault that your retarded ideology is based on easily refutable memes

>>131055795
>the state waits around to see what the most profitable monopolies would be, and then takes them by force
>no voluntary groups could ever have achieved a monopoly in those businesses before because violence IS required, and they'd rightfully be called pirates or mafia
>literally every single thing they do was invented and operated voluntarily first; they create zero wealth; ALL of human history demonstrates it plainly to anyone who isn't fucking blind oh wait i guess that means you have to have an actual white person's IQ to understand it
hmm fixed that for you but now we have a bigger problem here

>>131058079
>>131058230
>you can just suffer the violence of a different gang. no problem??? duhh???
this is what we're dealing with. what do we do about the low IQ question?

>>131058079
The fact that I will not be allowed to reside on the land I own after having revoked my citizenship is a big proglem.

Here's a hint before you reply: The land the government SOLD to me is no longer in their posession, they've no right to decide what I can do on my plot of land.

Taxation is not theft. That's a heavyhanded reductionism akin to saying "execution is murder!"

You live in a society. There is a social contract. You sacrifice something for the good of your family. Your family sacrifices something for the good of the local community. The local community sacrifices something for the good of the state. The state sacrifices something for the good of the nation.

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>>131058456
Why not go here?
https://www.google.com/maps/search/google+maps/@21.7540196,33.5429822,10.25z

No country, no government, no taxes.

There is literally nothing stopping you from going there right now and getting away from this "MUGGING" you call the social contract

>>131058456
You can go live in your ancap paradise. Oh no wait nobody is actually retarded enough to take ancap seriously

As for the low iq question, kys. That should bring up the average iq

>>131058456
go find your own island then
>>131058515
well maybe you should put 2 and 2 together and realise that if you pay rent, you are the tenant and not the landlord

>>131054860
that bait is fucking weaksauce, but fuck it

let's just assume you use roads, have a car that emites CO2, or you need to go visit a doctor. Maybe you hop onto a bus because your car broke down or it's just more convenient, then you have government employed police to protect you in your day to day life. In short, you use all those services, created not by you as a single person, but most likely by the society that you are living in, take on a city scale, country scale, whatever, it all applies the same way.

Now you use all these services that the society you live in provides, but expect all of those to be free? Roads need repairs, schools need budgets and the list could go on and on. Taxation is the communities way to guarantee a steady flow of income in order to maintain all of these and many more services. Not paying taxes is a fucking theft on your society

To some degree yes, it's involuntary. But I wouldn't say taxes=theft just because it's legal and supposed to be "fair".

>>131058515
Thats because that land is protected by the Military, its nearby infrastructure is paid for by the government and its also protected from burglary by the Government.

You benefit from the government and the only reason you "own" land is because the government protects your claim.

>>131054860
Don't like your taxes? Fucking leave!

>>131054860
Yes
State is the biggest criminal organization ever created and we are just tax cattle

>>131055369
so you don't have any bit of complaints about your nation's texation?

It's both theft and slavery and anyone who disagrees is a retard.

>>131058811
Tax isn't rent, you spastic. The landlord can't rent a property he himself stated that he does not own.

>>131059017
If I do not pay taxes, I don't expect government services. I wouldn't mind not having the shitty military of my country protect me.

No taxes + No government services sounds like a great deal to me, too bad I cant opt into it.

>>131059284
No. And even if I did, I could always either vote or leave

>>131059402
Thats right, you can't because all the land around you is protected and thus you indirectly are.

You benefit thus you owe. Unless you can completely cut yourself from the government, you owe them money for their service.

And I invite you to go here: https://www.google.com/maps/search/google+maps/@21.7540196,33.5429822,10.25z

There is no government to benefit off of, so you won't go as you like to leech.

>>131059402
>i dont own the land
>but you still have to pay me for living on it
>but i rely dont own it trust me
looks like the dumbfuck is you

>>131059612
>dont pay tax and declare yourself sovereign
>troops arrive and annex your land

>>131059748
Who are you quoting?

>>131054860

It's no different than paying rent.

>>131059612
Oh indirect benefit, huh?

The computer I'm typing on now was purchased from an IT-company. The growth of this industry ,which I helped, has provided you with affordable and quality electronics, it's a benefit indirectly caused by me. I guess I (and everyone else who bought electronics at some point) am entitled to some of your earnings now, huh?

>>131059612
Like if we should pay bribes to the mafia that is protecting us because we are forcefully using its service

>>131060037
It's not even close to paying rent.

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>>131059402

>Tax isn't rent

What's the difference?

>>131054860
no because you implicitly consent to the tax when you knowingly engage in a taxable exchange

>>131060265

It's basically the same concept.

"If you're going to live in my house, you're going to pay rent for upkeep, plus some extra so that I can make a profit."

>OMG what a fair voluntary transaction

"If you're going to live in this country, you're going to pay taxes for roads and military protection, plus a little extra to help out the less fortunate."

>OMG THIS IS PURE EVIL

It's the exact same fucking thing. You just choose to sperg out over one and not the other.

>>131060139
>I guess I (and everyone else who bought electronics at some point) am entitled to some of your earnings now, huh?
Yes, yes you are. I used a part of my earnings to buy this computer, and if you worked on it then a part of that money made it to you in the form of salaries

>>131060353
Can you rent an appartment that you dont own out to someone?

Can I sell your shoes? No, I don't own them.

>>131054860

Taxis are part of the contract for using USD. If you don't like them Don't use USD. 100% voluntary.

>>131054860
There is no theft without law, which requires the authority of the state. Likewise, taxation, cannot be theft, since it is authorized by the state. Carrying a basketball in your hands and walking ten steps is only considered travelling within the rules of a basketball game. It's not wrong if you're not playing basketball, and if you're playing basketball, the rules are legitimate.

>>131060353
you aren't obligated to pay rent, you can choose the house you want, you can buy a house and never pay a rent

>>131059612
"The mafia protect us from disorganised crime and other competition and thus regular payment can actually make me safer in the long run"
"They protect everyone around me so I indirectly benefit"
"It's not protection money, I benefit thus I owe"

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>>131060526
>he doesnt know about subleasing

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>>131054860

If you are taxed 100% of your money what are you?

If you are taxed 99% of your money what are you?

What percentage does it have to drop down to before you're no longer a slave?

>>131058079
>>you can renounce your citizenship when you become an adult, whats the issue
this is false, it is the liberals who decide if they allow youto be nationless. and you need to gain another citizenship in another country evne to travel, because liberals are crazy about borders. in fact, liberals refuse the change in citizenship if there is no other citizenship secured beforehand.

>>131059748
can you even fucking read?

The government can't be my landlord, because I have a contract with them that says that I OWN this specific plot of land. You can't rent something out that you don't own, how difficult is this?

>>131060479
>voluntary transaction

Probably because i chose to live in the house, and agreed with the owner on the terms of the lease (VOLUNTARY CONTRACT ALERT)

If the house was shitty or the terms weren't satisfactory, i have plenty other options available to me.

I don't want to pay for your shitty roads and military.

>>131054860
Nigger steal your money and buy crack

The state "steal" your money and build bridges, hospitals, roads, schools and gives money to the poor

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>>131060748

>you aren't obligated to pay rent

What did he mean by this?

>>131060526

I don't see your point. You have the ability to pick which country you want to live in. Hell, if taxes are so terrible, you can choose to live on a boat and not ever pay taxes.

>>131060851
lol wut
liberals? wtf are you talking about?
you renounce your citizenship then you become stateless and go to jail, but hey you are sovereign in jail

>>131060877

You purchased land ownership rights, given to you by the state. Those right include a requirement to pay property tax. It was in the contract when you bought it. Though any rural land is easy enough to get out of paying that tax.

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We've had the tools to set us all free for a very long time. What do we need? Food, water and shelter. Focus on the solutions

>>131054890
/thread

Humans have always had a cast system, don't let modern living standards fool you into thinking we aren't all slaves

>>131060959

>belief in government's good will
>flag

Case closed.

>>131060935

>I don't want to pay for your shitty roads and military.

That's fine. You have the ability to leave the country if you want to. Nobody forces you to stay.

>>131059017
>>You benefit from the government and the only reason you "own" land is because the government protects your claim.
false, the only reason I ''own'' land is that I pay the tax created by the rulers under threats of prosecuting me before their recruits to assert their power over me. Any day the rulers can choose do take the land from me.

>>131060935
>I don't want to pay for your shitty roads and military.
Then all you have to do is fuck off

>>131056737
It's people like you that keep me dreaming for the day of the rope. Peasants are just low class scum until theres a thousand of them dragging you out of your house and lynching your family

>>131061102
or you can create your little country somewhere else.

>>131058759
OK -- where's my refund? and isn't it going to be given to me in gold? since i am an independent nation now, will i be afforded the same diplomatic authority and respect as the entire government i am leaving and all others in good standing with it?

so i can have an embassy here in your country, right? that's mine, i claimed it, but i don't need to be there. this is all voluntary, as you say, so defending my country with a monopoly on violence in that geographic location isn't actually required. it's more convenient for trade for me to live here at the embassy -- which of course i don't have to pay taxes on.

so, asking everyone again -- what do we do about the low IQ problem? or, is it maybe public education that's the problem?

>>131060877
so what youre saying is the government sells you land that you pay tax on and the reason you say they cant is because the government said that "you own the land now".
sounds like you got scammed

>>131060966
Rape and murder isn't that bad either! You can just move out of areas where rape and murder happen instead of removing the people who perform these immoral actions.

>>131060877

A state, by definition, controls all land within its territory. When a private citizen "owns" land, what they are doing is purchasing a certain package of rights pertaining to a specific plot of land from the state. Then that citizen can sell or transfer that bundle of rights to another citizen if he wants to through a process which is facilitated by the state.

>>131061438

How about we tax low IQ people and smart people can just get out of paying taxi...o wait that is the current system.

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Educate as many as you can on our current state of technology.

We are capable of mass producing carbon nano-tubes. Solar technology is now more than capable of taking care of humanity, energy-wise

Hemp, Is the ultimate textile. And it doesn't ruin our land-base. The future generations aren't going to give a fuck whether you voted left or right, they are going care whether or not they can breathe the air and drink the water.

>>131061474
Yea

Sounds like they failed to uphold their end of the contract and should be held responsible.

As a side note. Why is my family not allowed to tax you and your family in Singapore. Why would it be wrong if we attempted to do that?

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Grow food, not lawns.

>>131058922
>independently buying things like toll tags, security guards, tuition, instead of being forced to pay for them is theft
>b-b-b-but people wouldn't produce the things they do actually produce unless we forced everyone to be consumers even though literally everyone wants those things
you're way out of your element here.

>>131061604
but, it isn't. that's a leftist lie.

>>131061496

>Remove the government
>Society falls apart
>New government forms to pick up the pieces and restore order to society

You can't "remove" government from society. Whenever a government is destroyed, there is a power vacuum and a new government eventually forms to fill that void. And the new government might be worse than the old one, like how in 1917 Russians destroyed the Tsardom only to end up with something even worse.

>>131061809
sounds like you dont understand the terms of contractual ownership

>>131061438
>so i can have an embassy here in your country, right? that's mine, i claimed it, but i don't need to be there. this is all voluntary, as you say, so defending my country with a monopoly on violence in that geographic location isn't actually required. it's more convenient for trade for me to live here at the embassy -- which of course i don't have to pay taxes on.
Yes, you can do that if your host country wants to have diplomatic relations with your shitty country (pro-tip: they don't).

Give it up son this is getting ridiculous, your ideology is shit. Stop the strawman arguments and admit it

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>>131061438
Stop deflecting and answer the question: Why aren't you moving there to escape the tyranny of taxes?

>>131054860
No it's not.

Theft is taking someone's property without any reimbursment.

Taxation is taking someone's property and providing services in exchange - such as policing, healthcare, education, defense etc.

>>131061102
the other thing you're totally overlooking is that leaving or staying is irrelevant to the point, which is that anarchy is already real and already what you live in, and there is no escaping it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIs5r3ujBmw

god designed the world that way. the question isn't why don't i leave, the question is why can't you realize it? and i think ultimately if too many people can't realize it, they need to undergo physical removal.

>>131061994
>Why aren't you moving there to escape the tyranny of taxes?

The constitution says I don't have to.

>>131055369
Okay great, then US taxation is theft, since the US taxes based on world income. (i.e. they tax you even after you leave the country)

Q.E.D, right?

>>131061994
see >>131062070

this is a question of what is true, not what is my most rational decision in light of what is true. the literally is, "are taxes theft?"

>>131062047
>>Taxation is taking someone's property and providing services in exchange
do not forget the threats too

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>>131061840
>>131061686
>>131061050
>>131060829

Divide and conqueror is always the agenda. Nothing can stop us when we work together. Educate others on here with compassion or they will never listen. Goodnight everyone, take care.

>>131062047
Can i opt out of these services?

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>>131061083
>don't let modern living standards fool you into thinking we aren't all slaves

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>>131062109
So if you're being beat up you're going to bitch about it instead of doing anything?

Again, why aren't you moving there if you hate taxes so much?

>>131061604
The current system needs to reward high IQ people for breeding and punish low iq people for creating more low iq people.

High IQ people also need to be punished for nonbreeding.

>>131062120
Renounce citizenship

>>131062259
see >>131060851

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>>131054860
for fuck's sake.

TAXATION IS NOT THEFT. TAXATION IS RACKETEERING.

LEARN THE DIFFERENCE

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>>131062228
>libertarian
>is a pedo

>>131062120

No, because you can renounce U.S. citizenship to get out of those. Which is fair, after all if you're not paying taxes, why should you be allowed to vote in American elections?

>>131061899

it is. If you haven't gotten out of taxes, that mean you are one of the low IQ people.

>>131062221
Theoretically, you can by moving from a country that makes you pay taxes to somewhere else. Unfortunately, every square inch of land on Earth is already claimed by nation-states, so you're shit out of luck. Maybe if you live long enough, you can sit your ass on a spaceship and colonize some other planet, then you won't have to pay taxes to anyone.

>>131062161
That is the fucked up part, but one that is a natural consequence of the evolution of the state. You can't observe political systems as if they exist suspended in time and in a vacuum.

>>131062047
no, it is not simply that, there is a _monopoly_ on those things being produced, it is enforced with violence, and you are treated as a potential criminal for even expressing the idea, "how come society worked just fine before we committed violent acts against people while saying we are all in a social contract? if it's so essential, how did humans get through 200,000 years to this point without it?"

you can try to exhaust us with your stupidity but you'll never beat the argument itself.

>>131054860
In it's current form, yes. In fact I'd go so far as to say it's a form of slavery.

>>131061923
Society wouldn't fall apart with no state. The state provides nothing that private actors can't provide much more efficently

>inb4 muh roads
>inb4 muh hospitals
>inb4 muh military
>inb4 muh court system
You agree these things are good, yea? So why wouldnt you pay for them voluntarily?

>>131061948
Sounds like you don't know how ownership works. Also please answer the question in my previous quote.

>>131062370
[citation needed]

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>>131062345
>retard posts some meme picture bullshit
>says some euroshit and some IQ fedora tipper are pedophiles
>hallucinates something that isn't there

take a nap, squirt.

>>131054860
No arguments there. If you tell me nothing will happen to me if I don't pay my taxes, I wouldn't pay.

>>131062259
But hold on, the government is the one that tells me:

1) If i can even renounce my citizenship (they can deny the request)
2) And, two how renouncing the citizenship costs (it's about $3000).

So let me get this straight, assuming 1) i have to either by robbed by a current thief, or pay the current thief $3000 and beg him to move another street where i'll get robbed slightly less by another thief?

>>131062343
Traveling is a privilege. What of it? He can leave the country first and then renounce the citizenship

>>131057970
We still have guns
t.american shit posting white shitting with a gun on belt

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>>131062344
Are you really this asshurt?

>>131062416
argument does not stand up, see: >>131061438

>>131062519
yeah the new country requires citizenship too

also, only liberals believe that traveling is a privilege

For all the retards who believe this and not the OP who is baiting

If you live in a civilized society, where everything is done via citizens and government incentives, you pay your fucking fair share and if you don't like it go live in the jungle with the other gooks

>>131062047
frig off ran

>>131062477
>>131062544
uh oh spaghettio
>Lolberterian
>lying
>imagine my shock

>>131054860
>le tax is theft meme
Then why you pay it, faggot?

>>131062597
What is "fair"?

>>131062645
because I am too poor to escape the liberal punishment

>>131062440
>muh natural laws
laughable
you cant tax me becuase the singapore government already taxes me and they would stop you you dumbfuck

>>131062536
bro i draw my firearm from the holster to take a shit, place it on the floor on its sights, and point it at the door. if you don't shit in public, get confident and do it right.

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>>131061438
it's public education, once the governments take over education it's over

the world is over, just enjoy the decline, and watch the entire thing burn

>>131062420
Are you actually, unironically claiming that before the invention of society, humans were non-violent towards one another?

>>131062662
Whatever they told his is fair.

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>>131062440

And how do you solve the "Free Rider" problem? Also, the military can't be privately run because that would mean giving immense power to a small group of people who would be completely unaccountable if they would decide to abuse their power.

>>131062476

lol person who has not cited a single thing is asking for citation now.

>>131062517
Well, if the US invades your shitty sovereign non-country and forces you to pay your taxes then I would agree that it is theft

>>131054860
Of course taxation is theft.
The state robs your money to build roads, gibing welfare to it´s people and builds borders that keeps thge mexicans out.
Thats fascism REEEEEEEE EEEE
TRUMP IS HITLER

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>>131062619
>>131062544
>>131062477
>>131062344
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/131054860/
>This new

>>131062805
>immense power to a small group of people who would be completely unaccountable

You mean a government?

>>131062420
contracts were always enforced with violence

>>131062730
that's what i'm doing, i just want to take one of them with me.

>>131062731
no i believe i am doing what is called posing an argument to prove the opposite. might makes right, anarchy is already reality it's not a "system" that we're trying to convince you to switch to. there is no "social contract"; governments already are the violent gangs that bring about worldwide peace, very sparingly, only when they are in stand-off mode, which is DIRECTLY a result of them being able to steal from "their own citizens" rather than each other.

when will you see it?

>>131054860
No but it should still be eliminated in favor of guild dues.

>>131062586
>yeah the new country requires citizenship too
So? How the fuck is that my problem?

>>131062914
this guy is beginning to get it

>>131062834
Anarcho-anything is a pipedream at best, a delusion at worst. Human nature dictates that someone will rise to the top. The anarchy will last for only as long as one person does not accumulate enough power to subjugate everyone else - and then you have a state again, only one far shittier and far more tyrannical that the states we have today.

>>131062519
>Traveling is a privilege.

No it's not, in a free society, it's called moving. The reason why moving from NY to CA takes less time than moving from NY to Quebec, even though Quebec is a lot closer to NY, is because Quebec is under the control of a different mafia, than CA, called the Canadian government.

>>131057970
>When you shoot your neighbours son on your lawn
>But it´s okay, because that stupid Kid violated your NAPitty

>>131062906

The government is accountable to voters.

>>131062906
well yes but at least they dont do it for profit.
well not obviously

Goddamn, the ancap autism ITT hurts

Why not leave and go to a country that upholds your ancap rules?

OH WAIT

THERE AREN'T ANY

HAHAHAHAHA

>>131062853
Low iq, you can't follow logical arugments. You said I can renounce my citizenship to avoid theft of taxation.

The problem is, renouncing the citizenship costs $3000 and the government isn't guaranteed to allow you to do so.

So my options for not being stolen from is:
1) Stay and get robbed by a current thief
2) Pay the current thief $3000 and move to a different place, where a different thief is gonna steal money from one.

Wow, true freedom.

>>131063015
Fuck off Randy.

>>131063015
I'm so sorry you actually believe that.

>>131063089
>>
>Why not leave and go to a country that upholds your ancap rules?
you can leave as well, create your country somewhere else

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>>131063089
https://www.google.com/maps/search/google+maps/@21.7540196,33.5429822,10.25z
They still wont go desu

>>131063089
>>131063048
Dirty faggot man-whores.

>>131063147
>>131063112
Yeah, why don't all the ancap shills move to a remote island?

Not even a week in, you'll be hauling your ass back from the "paradise" if you hadn't murdered each other already

Guaranteed.

>>131063089
Hey nigger, why not go to a slave-master, that won't treat you as a slave?

Oh that's right, there aren't any.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>131062940
I'm fairly sure that the constitution of any given country could be considered a "social contract".

Anarchy is reality in the realm of nations, since there is no one nation who is so much more powerful than the others that it can then act like a state does towards citizens. But anarchy is not reality in the realm of individuals.

Trying to abolish the state is suicidal and idiotic, I can see the wisdom of reducing the functions of a state to the bare minimum (police, justice, military defense and that's it), but destroying the state means also destroying rule of law, it means the war of everyone against everyone else.

>>131063112
>>131063266
>low iq

haha, pathetic attempt you can't refute fuck all

>>131063184
>>131063184
for you

>>131063015
fuck off

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>>131063201
>>131063084
>>131063048
You can't escape

>>131062702
So no moral obligations? If I manage to extort money from you via blackmail or threat, you would just roll over and accept it? Another case of might makes right, I see.


>>131062805
You dont get products/services that you don't pay for. "Free riders" would have get a job or rely on a community for certain services (communities who band together voluntarily).

>giving immense power to a small group of people
You mean like the military today? A private military would be significantly weaker in offensive pursuits, since it's supporters can cut support in a days notice. Objecting to a war started by your government today is much harder and often impossible.

>>131063112
You're the retard. Just move to a remote island and stop paying taxes. Problem solved

>>131054860
But taxes pay for things like roads

>>131054860
Taxation is a necessity in any country. how else would you pay for public works or civil services

>>131054860
theft
>money gone
taxes
>money used for social services I benefit from
You cant really compare them.

>>131063445
This, why do the ancap shills always escape this?

>>131063433
might does make right, even the founding fathers believed this

>>131063445>>131063240

if you do not like me paying your taxes, you can leave too, but oddly enough, you prefer to freeze my accounts and make me pay by force and throw me in jail, all of this in the name of your belief that what you do is for my benefit

>>131063433

>A private military would be significantly weaker in offensive pursuits

And also defensive pursuits, for the exact same reason.

>>131063707
FILTHY GOYIM

>>131054860
taxation is normal.
usury is not.
0.000000001% rate is still usury.

get tricked

>>131063707
fuck off

>>131063240
>>131063338
Somebody let John McCain on this website?

>>131063445
Retard is not an argument, sadly.

>Just move to a remote island and stop paying taxes
So I have to pay $3000 to the local mafia to leave me alone, and beg them to let me leave the city and live in a remote island somewhere to avoid them.

That's totally not a racketeering operation, right?

Also, since I never signed this "social contract", the contract is null and void and I can get a refund of all the taxes i've paid over the years, right?

>>131063662
Because ancaps are basically children who want to have the cake and eat it too.

They wouldn't have any problems with taxation if they were exempt from it and as long as they enjoyed the fruits of the common good funded by tax money.

>>131063615
fuck off back to plebbit already

>>131063112

Why are you accepting USD? only accept gold for payments and the government will have no way to track or tax your worth.

>>131062234
Did somebody say false equivalence?

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>>131062619
>>131062887
>being THIS desperate to prove to no one in particular on the internet in a thread where nobody is paying attention to you beyond the one person who saw your little bullshit attempt to farm replies

i admit 2 things to be true:

1. the archive and screenshot are accurate. duh.
2. you are by far the most pathetic little bitch boy in this thread to sperg out SO HARD over your precious little image reply trap being sprung for nothing.

you are a total embarrassment, squirt. get off the computer. go outside. start exercising. bathe more. study harder. find a mate. grow up.

>>131063800
>>131063746
>cant prove im wrong
>just non arguments
top kek

>>131063807
>>131063445

Hey here's a better idea, how about I don't pay any taxes, and if you don't like, you can create your statist utopia on a remote island somewhere, deal?

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Taxes pay for shit you use like roads and stuff whereas robbers do not do anything with the money that helps you

>implying an ancap would understand how roads work

Depends. If you don't actually own the land or property you live on and use, and you're actually renting it from the US like every other US citizen, then it's not theft. It's technically a service charge. When colonial settlers first arrived they earned deeds to property, but not government esque claims to landmass. That belonged to the British/French/Spanish and eventually to the modern US. This reason for none of us actually owning any of our shit technically makes it not theft. The logic holds when you realize Native Americans are granted status as sovereign citizens and don't have to pay taxes on the land they are allowed to claim rightfully as their own (though they may tax each other as some tribes do).

On the other end however, one could argue that they should have a right to opt out, especially since nobody makes a choice and that they are born into this system. If this opt out is chosen, then our government should also have the right to throw you out into international waters or whatever nearest unoccupied landmass they can find, and provide you with no access to any services and also reclaim any land you own in deed (read: rented from the government).

>>131063711
>all of this in the name of your belief that what you do is for my benefit
I never claimed that it's for your benefit. It's for the benefit of society. If you don't like it then go vote, or fuck off to somewhere else

>>131063807
>Somebody let John McCain on this website?
????
Nice argument, lmao

>>131063711
Why should I want to leave, hmm? Stop trying to twist and spin a simple question

>>131063821
The sad truth

>>131063856
>>131063445
>>131063662
???

Not so smug anymore?

>>131063918

Ok, just don't use USD and you wont have a problem.

>>131063662
Living on a desolate island is a bigger negative than living with a big government is, that doesn't mean big government is a good thing to have, however.

Hint before you respond: The government isn't responsible for the good living standards we enjoy today, the people themselves are responsible for that.

>>131063593
>Mob takes 30% of your income
>Gives you a bag of shit in return
>A-at least I got something in return, I should b-b-be happy for that
>Proceed to eat shit like the retard you are

>>131063831
>Why are you accepting USD
Because i'm forced to at a gunpoint?

>only accept gold for payments and the government will have no way to track or tax your worth.
I can't. If i try to trade in gold (or any other currency), I will be put in a 6x8 foot cage, and if I refuse to go to a cage for not using USD, I will be shot.

Look at what happened to a guy that tried to create a liberty dollar (dollar backed by gold).

>>131054860
if you were killed for not paying taxes and thiefs paid for social services then yes.

precisely the same

>>131064126

Total bullshit. There is no law and no one has ever gone to prison for accepting gold as payment.

Please cite a single source of someone going to jail for taking gold.

Without taxes everything would be privatised
>You'd wind up paying for it one way or another

>>131064087
Yet nowhere in the history of mankind, the so called people who are responsible for the good standards we enjoy, have achieved it in a state with no government

You can't simply single it out

Also, if what you believe is true, then it should make it too easy for you to build a paradise on the island, the people would just achieve the good standard of living?

>>131063992
>Nice argument, lmao

I don't argue with people who can't argue or don't argue. I mean it's like playing chess with a monkey that throws feaces at you, after your 1. e4 move.

So yeah, ooga booga republicuck, my goal was to insult you, not present an argument.

>>131063807
Just leave. The US government won't pursue you to your remote island to get their 3000$. As for the social contract, you implicitly agree to it by being on US soil

>>131063918
If the majority votes for this, then sure. Also, what's stopping me from forming a statist government in your ancap paradise?

>>131063739
>Get attacked by foreign power
>People would for some reason stop voluntarily supporting the military that's keeping them protected.
>???

Is this something you would do?

>>131064349
Yeah, 5 replies in , and you STILL CANNOT answer a simple question, how hilarious is that, ancap plebian?

in brazil of the 12 months we work , we pay 5 months in tax to the government
and i still live in a not pavimented street

>>131064420

What about collaborators who support the attacking government?

>>131063770
Yeah bro. "Get tricked"
HAHAHAHAHA wtf.

Taxation at the highest levels is GOOD. They do not know whatto do with thier personal wealth and waste it on stupid shit. The hedonistic liberal spending attitude makes it like this. Ther ewas atime of more stern use of money. But hose was all "evil white male" shit.
Usury is messed up but also a way to spend money more wisely than personal indulgences.
EVEN you beloved Muslims engage in usury.

>>131063308
>gravity is real in the realm of stars, but not in the realm of people

>Trying to abolish the state
i don't have to, it doesn't exist. it's exactly the lie that the gang would tell you to get you to consent to it. read this:

>That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

would you believe any other story? scientifically, what is something, if it is indistinguishable from something else when measured? i.e. is the big bang an act of god, or something else? what if no measurement can distinguish between the two? there is no actual social contract. eventually, you'll understand.

>>131064259
And i'm spiderman.

See I can say stuff out of my ass too. Trading in any other currency (including gold) other than USD inside US territory is a federal felony 31 us code chapter 3(or 2?) I believe.

>Please cite a single source of someone going to jail for taking gold.
FUCKING LEARN TO READ
liberty dollar

>>131064352
>As for the social contract, you implicitly agree to it by being on US soil
only according to the people who have faith in this contract. also, a contract requires to parties agreeing on it, not one party imposing it.

>>131064424
I answered all reasonable questions posed at me in this thread.

I'm not responding to idiocies like "why are you retarded lmao lollloolololololool drumpf *farts* ?"

>>131055369
if by voluntary you mean a jack booted thug will arrest you if you don't, and will shoot you if you rests arrest, then yes, it is voluntary.

>is police illegal?
>is fire department illegal?
>why do we need roads?

>>131064776
So you STILL can't answer the simple question of

Why don't you leave and go build your ancap meme paradise on an island with no ebil government?

Or does this equate to "LOL RETARDED HAHA" for you?

Pathetic, like talking to a child

>>131064338
Lmao, the retarded "it hasn't been put into practice yet" argument. What about before governments existed then? It would've been dumb to start them since they hadn't been tried before and thus must be bad! It's circular reasoning, you have to try a thing to find out if it's good, but you can't try new things since they haven't been tried out yet. Instead, we should make our decisions based on logical reasoning.

Also, the more liberal the economic policy (lower taxes, closer to ancap) the higher a countries living standards become. A piece of shit plot of land like Hong Kong with no natural resources to speak of is miles ahead of Venezuela, an authoritarian shithole that is dirt poor even though they have the largest oil reserves in the world.

>>131064652
Except for the fact that gravity is real in the realm of people as well, so your simile doesn't quite work. In fact, "anarchy" doesn't even really exist in the realm of nations, what with being bound by various conventions, multinational organizations, military alliances and international law to NOT do things that they theoretically CAN do.

>the state doesn't exist
Okay, now you've just gone full retard.

>>131054860
Yes, but might makes right.

>>131062725
Im not gonna pull my gun out of my holster at work lol. If i have an nd i will be fired. I can pull it out if someone starts kicking the door down

>>131064338
https://mises.org/library/pennsylvanias-anarchist-experiment-1681-1690

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>>131062440
>You agree these things are good, yea? So why wouldnt you pay for them voluntarily?>>131063433
You dont get products/services that you don't pay for.

so basically, you are for taxation?

>>131064559
They couldn't bribe any big politicians to do their bidding since the power would be centralized in the people and not in corrupt politicians. These collaborators would have much less power than they do today.

the weak should fear the strong

>>131064050
what the fresh hell are you talking about, pachyderm dick head?

>>131064338
>if what you believe is true
no, that does not follow, what follows is that "governments" ...aren't. they're gangs, and in reality, might makes right because there is no social contract. that's all.

monarchies, for all their faults, were at least operated by people who knew the real world as it actually is, that might makes right, and knew their place beneath god.

>>131064923
low taxes =/= no taxes

>>131064923
Oh boy, are you weird, you spew some shill-tier idiocy, yet can't even name a simple example where good standards in humanity were achieved with no government?

Also, looks like you have no understanding how Hong-kong got to where it is now

>hint- Taiwan-China problem, quite some time ago no one wanted to trade with China, well how did they bypass it hmm?

Also Venezuela is a socialist shithole, the worst kind of government, so a strawman

>>131065100
If it's voluntary, but then I wouldn't call it taxes.

>>131064910
OH MY FUCKING GOD, WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS 5 FUCKING TIMES ALREADY - read some of the previous replies

>go build your ancap meme paradise
What do you mean build my anarchist society? A group of people not having the power to murder others in a certain geographic region is the default state of being, there's no building required.

>meme
not an argument

>>131065014
don't ND. simply do not do it. confident and competent people in this thread only pls

>>131064735
Yes, and you agree to the social contract by being on French soil. If you want to revoke that consent then all you have to do is fuck off

>>131064823
Yes, the social contract is enforced. You can opt out by leaving.

On an another note, if I kill you in your ancap land, am I subject to punishment? I don't agree to the NAP and I don't regognize any ancap authorities. Therefore I can just kill you and walk free right?

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>>131058230
name one country without taxation you dense motherfucker

>>131055369
I own the earth and am going to charge you rent for living on it.
Don't like it? Move to another planet.

>>131065371
>you agree to the social contract by being on French soil.
where's the piece of paper that says that? it sounds like you're saying there's a contract there, but you don't even have to read it or sign it, so it doesn't have to actually exist. hmm!

>>131065140
woah, sure showed me tough guy

>>131065276
Well then don't build it, go there and establish it, of course I don't know your meme definitions and slogans

Still, no ANSWER to the simple question, you just spewed some off-topic stuff about your ideology

>>131054860
>Is taxation theft?

Nope. Taxation is how we maintain roads, provide basic services, and make sure we have land to build homes on.

Anyone who doesn't pay taxes should not expect to use the roads or utilities. We can talk about what might constitute excessive taxation, or which forms of taxation are more conducive to a liveable society.

Taxes are normal. Ancaps wouldn't have a dime in their pocket or a place to live if the generations before them didn't pay their taxes.

>>131065276
>A group of people not having the power to murder others in a certain geographic region is the default state of being, there's no building required.
>not having the power to murder others

So right off the bat, your anarchist society is impossible, since even the weakest human is still strong enough (if he uses his brain) to kill even the strongest human.

Even assuming that you somehow do accomplish this, what then? Who will mediate disputes between free anarchist inhabitants? Or do you believe that there won't ever be any disputes whatsoever in your hypothetical "society"? And how will you enforce the rulings of there arbitrations?

>>131065401
>>131063089

>>131065163
Yes because when you give a small amount of money to a bunch of evil sociopaths who only care about expanding their own power, they certainly wouldn't use that little amount of money to... you know expand their power and tax you even more.

I mean who could have seen that coming, amirite? Income tax was 1% when it was introduced.

>>131065549
not an argument, but rather an admission of defeat in a battle that no one was waging against you. good job, chump.

>>131065242
Why do you keep using this circular reasoning even after I point it out? I can point out, thought, that the best living standards have been achieved by small governments.

The less government regulation, the better (at least when it comes to quality of services/goods and living standards)

>>131064338
>Yet nowhere in the history of mankind, the so called people who are responsible for the good standards we enjoy, have achieved it in a state with no slavery.

>You can't simply single it out.

>Also, if what you believe is true, then it should make it too easy for you to build a paradise on the island, the people would just achieve the good standard of living?

Guess, we are not getting of slavery boys, since you societies without slavery never existed before. I concede my arguments.

>>131063015
You are unbelievably fucking stupid.

>>131065401
Saudi-Arabia. If that's not good enough then found your own

>>131065433
Good luck enforcing that

>>131065537
I haven't read the French law but I'm willing to guess that it's there. French law applies to French citizens and to people on French soil. If you don't like the law then as long as neither of those conditions apply, you're free

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>>131054890
fpbp

>>131064644
that rambling makes no sense. why dont u make usury illegal instead? u get tricked by 'its fine if its low rates'. everyone suffer from this.

>>131065930
why taxation comes from debts that comes from usury.

taxation is oxygen for any government, usury is poison, get some iq or is too late :)

>>131065688
>>131065688
>still hopeless and can't answer a 2+2 question

shows how dense and fanatic ancaps are

>>131065787
>>131065787
Got schooled so hard about hong-kong you had to run back to irrelevant spewing about circular reasoning and other derailing stuff?

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>>131054860

>>131066045
There is 0 reason for tax or debt, just print the money.

>>131065875
Lol what

>arguments
Literally none made, do you know what such word even means?

And, by the way, the strawman you made doesn't even apply to my statement, what are you trying to achieve?

>>131059612
sure thing guy. look, we get it, you give away your essential freedoms for perceived safety and the government grants you neither. a pizza arrives to my home faster than the police, who will shoot someones dog and get a paid vacation when they arrive at the wrong home anyways. what "protection" am i receiving here?
>>131060829
this is an excellent line of thinking
is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?

>>131065906
Another might makes right retard.

Guess it's ok murder as long as you can run from the feds. You wouldn't mind being murdered in an alley, the murderer was able to enforce his will, so he was right.

>>131054890
>>131054860
Whether it is 15%, 30% - 50% or 100% it is still fundamentally slavery indeed, just in varying degrees. /thread

>>131066061
>Get's caught commiting a fallacy
>Tries to save face with by changing the subject

What about Hong Kong? Do you think they taxed themselves into riches?

>>131065593
So you're saying without the gov, we cannot build roads for ourselves? We can't build bridges? We can't...police ourselves? Can't pay for medical costs? Or is this all because inner city slumlords aren't allowed to be weeded out?

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I'm dropping in a bit late, but i want to explain that taxation is essentially not theft, but taxation is rather an important prerequisite for a proper state. Without the proper state in place, theft has no meaning, because there is no law. Thus taxation is not theft but is rather really in a category of its own, it is "taxation" specifically.

In short, a certain class of people will hold the physical power in society. This class can raise taxes from the weaker classes if they want to. This is the warrior class, or military / police class if you will. With no police class to enforce the law, there would be anarchy, and theft would lose its meaning.

Thus taxation is not really theft, when you think of it in this way.

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>>131066061
>mfw the pachyderm pussy is LITERALLY hallucinating right now

this just keeps getting funnier.

>>131066242
Are you seriously dense? It's a social contract that people agree to by being in France

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>>131065245
again, you said
>You dont get products/services that you don't pay for.

so tell me how that would work. there are really only a few options. tolls or taxes.
so, you wanna go ahead and tell me how great you think tolls are?

>>131066434
>>131061089


There are no services that the private sector cant handle better than the government. Enjoy paying that swedish 35% income tax +25% sales tax like the indoctrinated statist bootlicker you are.

>>131065598
>So right off the bat, your anarchist society is impossible, since even the weakest human is still strong enough (if he uses his brain) to kill even the strongest human.

Yeah, I read this more than once, but I really couldn't understand this sentence. Anarchist society is impossible (which you know, it's not cough cough PA in early 1700s) because people can use their brain power to kill other people? How does that follow?

>Even assuming that you somehow do accomplish this, what then?

Accomplish what? Not giving the power to a certain group of people (called the government) in a certain geographical location to kill, steal, kidnap, and imprison other people, is the default state of being, there's nothing to accomplish.

Like you do realize that if 5 of us are in a room, what the default:
1) One of the guys having the power to kill at will the other 4 without any consequences, and take money form their wallets. Or
2) None of the guys having any such powers, and everyone having equal rights?

>Who will mediate disputes between free anarchist inhabitants?
Ever heard of Ebay or Amazon? Has a pretty good dispute resolution system. Not perfect of course, but they would continue to advance, and of course miles better than any court, which takes likes 10 years on average to achieve a resolution. And as bonus, neither Ebay or Amazon have invaded any countries recently, or jailed anyone, or took 50% of my income by force.

>And how will you enforce the rulings of there arbitrations?
Well, by shooting the losing side, if they don't comply with the ruling, while bankrupting the winning side in a 10 year long process of legal fees.

That's obviously the best resolution system in the history of the world. Of course there wasn't any competition in this field (because it's illegal), but you know I just know it's the best one. My teacher told me so.

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>>131066593
>People agreed to be born in France

The finnish intellectual strikes again

>>131066886
Haha, well the private sector can't handle governing itself. Control of the military and police force, mainly. Come on man. A "private" army would just be the new state.

>>131065308
>pull your cambered gun out with no safety every time you poop at work and put it on the counter
>just dont nd dude
Yeah, i'll keep my gun in my holster. That way it can never nd at work.

>>131066163
>what "protection" am i receiving here?

Protection from roving bands of dindus knocking on doors and collecting "taxes" the hard way.

>>131066434
>This is the warrior class, or military / police class if you will. With no police class to enforce the law, there would be anarchy, and theft would lose its meaning.
but this happens when there is policemen recruited by people who want to manage other people.
Creating rules and trying to impose them is not effective.

>>131066856
Voluntary tolls >>>>>>> Involuntary tolls (taxes)

I don't wanna pay for stuff I don't use. And I dont want my money supporting business practices I deem poor (such as state schools and healthcare, they are of awful quality.).

>>131066045
>>taxation is oxygen for any government, usury is poison, get some iq or is too late :)
then why do not give more money to the government than the government demands from you?

>>131067178
>Creating rules and trying to impose them is not effective.
Really? It's worked in every state in history... I think you're really off track here.

>>131054860
Theft is just communism though. Taxation at least gives me a chance of getting you back.

>>131067001
If they don't like France then they can fuck off. Poof no taxes. Why is this such hard concept for you to grasp, you retard?

>>131067186
What does it matter what you want? The rulers of the state don't have to abide by your wants.

>>131067280
people do not follow the rules, about taxes, about driving, about cutting trees in private gardens, about disposing trash, even when there are policemen. People refuse that creating rules and getting policemen and judge to watch, judge and punish people is not the way to make them follow the rules.

>>131067482
>People refuse that
People refuse to see that

>>131066156
Guess the slavery stays then. There never was a slave-free society in the history of the world before today, so yeah.

I mean think of the poor, right? Who will clothe the poor.

>the strawman you made
It's called an analogy,
>doesn't even apply to my statement
Yes it does, all I literally did was replace one word in your argument.

>>131065549
You go live on a island. Why do I have to go? Because the statist will kill me if I don't comply with their rules? Well might doesn't make right.

>>131067186
to clarify, who do you pay the tolls to?

>>131067071
>private sector can't handle governing itself
It can

>A "private" army would just be the new state
If the private army started to act poorly, would you still pay for it? They would need to behave or have their funds pulled in a moments notice.

>>131066960
You said that an anarchist society is one where a group of people living in the same geographical locale would not have the power to kill one another. This is patently wrong, since every single person has the power to kill any other person, they just don't use this power because of cultural-religious programming and for fear of the consequences. Remember, power does not equal legitimacy or authority, power is the ability to project one's will into physical reality.

Not even going to go into the rampant autism of thinking that the dispute resolution system of a website could in any way, shape or form displace or be more efficient than an actual justice system built on rule of law.

Also, I love how you neatly sidestepped the most salient part of my argument - how to enforce the rules in an anarchist society (since a society without any kind of rules at all is too retarded even for you) - by resorting to reductio ad absurdum of the current enforcement system, instead of offering your sterling insight into how this would work without degenerating into a state once more.

>>131067517
I know what you mean, but today, that is mainly because of the poor punishments we have. If most offences, such as speeding for example, carried the death penalty, you wouldn't see people speeding on the roads.

>>131067323
>>If they don't like France then they can fuck off. Poof no taxes.
fasle, you need a passeport and visa to leave dumdum

>>131067626
Do you really believe the private sector can govern itself? So you fail to realize that the private sector would then establish a new state? I don't know what you're smoking.

>>131067071
>A "private" army would just be the new state.

Okay, so what's the harm in an anarchist society then?

If the worst possible outcome of an anarchist society is a statist society, then surely it's an option worth exploring.

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>>131067626
>If the private army started to act poorly, would you still pay for it? They would need to behave or have their funds pulled in a moments notice.

The most powerful actor (force, or army) in society can levy taxes. It doesn't need funds because it takes its funds from the people. I have to leave now, but i hope you understand this.

>>131067573
>Why do I have to go?
Because you want to have your society organized in a way that is absolutely retarded. If this society isn't good enough for you then fuck off and make your own.

If the tables were turned and the majority wanted to live in ancap retard land then yes, I absolutely would fuck off to some island

>>131067601
The owner of the roads/hospitals/schools/whatever

But it's not right to force me to pay the tolls (or prices) if I dont use your product/service.
>>131067392
>What does it matter what anyone but the ruler wants?
>The king doesn't have to listen to you peasants

Worrying how so many swedes are statists, considering what your government is doing to your country.

>>131067837
The ONLY outcome of an anarchist society is an "organic state". I recommend that you google that term, it is an interesting concept that i think an-caps should read about.

>>131067667
>fasle, you need a passeport and visa to leave dumdum
And you can get those from your government, can you not? Problem solved

NO TAXATIONS WITHOUT REPRESENTATION

>>131067837
>If the worst possible outcome of an anarchist society is a statist society, then surely it's an option worth exploring.

it's not the worst, it's the guaranteed outcome in the long term.
If you are in a position of influence, you WILL capitalize on that, and there WILL be people who don't necessarily agree with your way of doing things. among them there will be people who want to spread their own influence. and what will you do then?
these kind of conflicts are human nature.

Why can't I just decide where my taxes go?
Like, I'll still pay my 40% income tax and 20% property tax and 10% sales tax and all the other bullshit taxes that are forcefully imposed on me, but why can't I choose which services are payed for and which amounts are payed? This way I can decide that roads and police are important to me as is a military for my nation, but not wellfare for niggers with 10 kids or crack whores.
Alternatively I suppose there could be a census type program that people use to vote on the budget of their communities. Of course both these ideas depend on the government being truthful about reporting the expenditures which I know would never happen, but a man can dream

>>131067751
>>131067868

>We need the state to protect from a state forming

>>131055782
Our government is destroying Western society though.

>>131067656
yeah and there was still people breaking rules under Dracon.
and then there is still the issue that rules have nothing to do with the ''good of the people'' bur more about the personal power fantasies of the rulers

>>131068276
>We need the state to protect from a state forming
It may sound stupid, but it's true. The state is like a predator in nature, it fills a niche that already exists, because prey animals exist to feed upon.

>>131054860
No you fucking idiot. Taxes pays for things like road and social security.

>>131068215
Worst of all those niggers or crackwhores vote.

>>131068215
liberals have created a principle that taxes must be put into one big bag ''to forget where the money comes from in order to allocate it specifically''
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principe_d%27universalit%C3%A9_budg%C3%A9taire#La_r.C3.A8gle_de_la_non-affectation

>>131067648
>You said that an anarchist society is one where a group of people living in the same geographical locale would not have the power to kill one another.

Not to just kill, teal, kidnap, imprison, other human beings without consequences. Which is what the state is. The state is a legal fiction that gives a group of people a license to kill, and steal from other people in a certain geographical region.

>This is patently wrong, since every single person has the power to kill any other person.
Sure. So how does giving a certain group of people the power to do so without consequences help us here?

> they just don't use this power because of cultural-religious programming and for fear of the consequences
Really? What consequences are there for the people in government that commit genocides? George Bush killed 500,000 iraqis and decimated their gene pool for probably 1000 years, and he didn't even get a speeding ticket. Not a lot of consequences, just sayin'. Obamacare lead to deaths of millions of people, if through decreased life expectancy if anything. What were the consequences everyone who worked on that bill got? A multi-million dollar book deal?

>Remember, power does not equal legitimacy or authority, power is the ability to project one's will into physical reality.
Yeah I agree, so why is the government's power legitimate then? Because they have the biggest guns?

>Not even going to go into the rampant autism of thinking that the dispute resolution system of a website could in any way, shape or form displace or be more efficient than an actual justice system built on rule of law.
Well one resolves civil disputes in 48 hours, another takes 10 years (if you're lucky) of expensive legal fees and hair puling. I also don't think they are comparable.

>sidestepped
No I didn't reread my post again.

>would work without degenerating into a state once more.
So what's the argument here? Surely that's a positive outcome for you.

>>131056737
But the super rich always find away to avoid paying a lot of taxes.

>>131054860
No shit

>>131065537
>>131065537
not all contracts are written, although you could probably get one if you wanted.
citizenship is a birthright, so it doesnt need a paper because its passed from parent to child if you are born there

>>131068477
Why not have a night-watchman state then? Why have a giant state that spends copiuos amounts on useless shit that the private sector can handle better?

You can't justify the useless shit the swedish government is financing.

>>131069099
>so it doesnt need a paper
lel people who want to rule always create an administration establishing ''truths'', ie authenticity of facts.

>>131068100
>it's not the worst, it's the guaranteed outcome in the long term.

Just saying something doesn't make it so, sorry. You actually have to prove your assertions, let's ee if you do that.

>If you are in a position of influence, you WILL capitalize on that
of course, it's why today the richest town per capita in the world is DC

> and there WILL be people who don't necessarily agree with your way of doing things.
okay, and?

>among them there will be people who want to spread their own influence. and what will you do then?
Give them the power to print their own currency is your solution apparently?

But you still didn't prove your initial assertions.

>>131068002
agnhkgnrkgnfdlgnldfglkdfjlfhdjl

That's what your argument sounds like to me. You have to define what a state is, what an organic state is, and prove why is it the only outcome (not just assert it). And of course show why is this "organic state" worse than the regular state.

Because you haven't addressed my argument: if the outcome of an ancap society is a state, no reason not to want an ancap society if you're a statis then.

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>>131066142
>just print the money

>>131055026
underrated

>>131067893
>might makes right argument

you know if you don't like slavery, leave, we have all the guns, you retard

>>131068477
this is indeed the only good reply. there will always be a boss, so might as well get a boss who just want a bit of money each year, work a bit to get this money and try to avoid the policemen and does not make more social actions obligatory, like participating in such or such activity in his society.

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>>131054860
>Is taxation theft?
Is squatting on private property without paying rent theft? Is private property theft? If private property is theft, and you eliminate it, then I guess there's no such thing as theft at that point, and the communist state will be free to take everything from anyone at any time for any reason, and it can't be theft because its not private property.

>>131069651
>25-50% income tax +25% sales tax is just a little bit

...

>>131063949
>>131065593
>>131054860
Taxation is the government repairing your appliances, weeding your garden, and fixing your car for a third of your income and then shitting on your carpet and pissing in your mouth saying it's just as helpful as the earlier services.

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>>131069779

>>131069370
look how current systems are dealing with corruption. they have a hard enough time.
your system doesn't even deal with it (corruption) in the first place. you seem to think that it just magically won't happen.

your system does not prevent any other system to forcefully overwrite it.
the people who control education, the military, the rich could do whatever they want to your system and there is nothing that could stop them. there is nothing that could stop corruption from happening.

it's a shitty and unstable system, that's why people laugh at anarchists.

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>>131070084
The government is only as good as you make it. If you let them shit in your mouth, they will keep shitting in your mouth.