"Free Will is just another spook, Fucko"

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"Some people say a bird in the hand is worth two in the but but you can't sell futures in a bird not in the bush. Futures form the basis of a sound economy, something to think about before you start trying to holodomore the financial sector."

"In 2008 on Wall street they put up signs telling traders it was wrong to steal"

>>131048668
He isn't stating free will is a spook. What he's saying is that there are two aspects to the universe.

Objective: Physics, Morality
Subjective: Free Will, Spirit

You can of course break the objective rules with your subjective experience, but you will suffer the natural law consequences of the objective laws of the universe.

More detail on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIEemKcy-4E

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>>131049679
"The idea of free will is just the byproduct of a sytem that evolved naturally. It's an illusion that is now part of the system. Think of it as an equation complex enough to experience itself"
-Peter Jordensen, 2017

>>131050200
So do you have an argument to refute this or something? It seems like a good potential discussion, I'd unironically love to hear your thoughts.

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>>131050315
>>131049679

>Falling for bait this bad

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>>131050315
"There is an inherent order within the universe-system. An order which is immutable and sustained from the onset of creation until now. To think you have any control over this order is madness."
-Peter Jordensen.

>>131049679
Burger is right. OP is completely missing the point. Sort yourself out

>>131050704
ackshually, i think this Jordensen guy is on too something.

JP is boss!

>>131048668
Looks like WE GOTTEM BOYS.
>JBP LITERALLY parroting your rhetoric that you've been plastering on /pol/ and arguing over it with the dialectlets
Literally in control here, lads.

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>>131051145
>>131051197

Those opinions are spooks.... who put them in your head? You? Or the universe?

>>131049679
>links a 9 hour seminar

T-thanks...

>>131050551
not sure how it is bait. It does seem that jordan peterson is saying free-will is a spook. And rightly so. free-will is silly

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>>131051848

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>>131048668
Awesome. Truly the philosopher of our time

>>131048668
>doesn't believe in free will
>is a Christian

So he worships the absolutely most vile version possible of the Jew God, the one who knowingly makes people into sinners in order to have the pleasure of burning them forever at the end of time.

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>>131052032
I'm appropriating your rare Jordensen meme, comrade.

>>131052159
That's fine. I don't believe in personal property anyway

>>131052043
tell that to calvinists. And actually, it makes sense. If our original sin was passed on for our parent's truly independent decisions what kind of God is that?

also You can't have "god's plan" without it being infalliable, meaning determinism is true. If God's plan doesn't come into being, he is not omnipotent, and if it does as was prophesized, then determinism is true. Not that hard to understand.

will and free will aren't the same things.

>>131052322
Amazing how people can claim ownership of something that came about a result of actions and influences beyond their control.

It's like, sort yourself out Bud, You are just an illusion of yourself how can 'you' own anything you bloody abstract concept.

Free will is an incoherent postulate, yo.

>>131048668

>I can't prove or disprove free will
>therefore I believe it doesn't exist

It's the god argument all over again.

Looking at Peterson's quote you presented, then we are all at the height of delusion all the time.

I believe he is a lecturer, the people watching him believe he's a lecturer, he believes he is a lecturer too. So by the act of doing and others believing he is part of the environment of others and influencing it.

The immutable laws go out of the window as soon as someone asks themselves "what if I did this".

What if we took it further, and that the subjective level of reality was due to the means of perception, not just sensory but through consciousness. For example, I can make two computers come to the same conclusion to a problem using very different methods. What if our perception, on a conscious level, was radically different. So much different that should you swap perceptions the universe it's self could not be recognizable, yet the outcome is agreed upon by all whom take part.

Who's to say that changing our perception, even the smallest fraction, could open new possibilities and a new way of influencing the world around us.

tl;dr The way we operate free will is through perception, not through force.

>>131052379
>tell that to calvinists

I do. I tell it to Muslims, too.

>what kind of God is that

It's the Jew God. Most Christians and Jews make beieve that a human can something called "free will" in a Universe created and ruled by an omniscient being, in this way they are able to rationalise the absolute evil of their god by saying "well, they DESERVED to suffer for all of time for their 'sins'". At least the Calvinist accepts that his god is satanic, but still chooses to worship it.

>>131052782

I agree with this revolting subhuman G*rm. Even in a Universe without an all-knowing being, free will makes no logic or physical sense.

>>131052814
>The immutable laws go out of the window as soon as someone asks themselves "what if I did this".
No, it was just inevitable that they'd ask that, just as their answer will be inevitable.

>>131048668
kek this is great

>>131048668
>casting spells on social justice warriors to steal their crops.

>>131053307
Got my start on the BBS in the 80s. Kids today don't know how to prepare bait and deploy it properly.

>>131050315
The illusion of free will and true free will are indistinguishable from one another. There's no point in agonizing over it.

>>131049679
>Morality
>Objective
Ayy

>>131052379

god cannot exits because he cannot be omnipotent and omniscient at the same time.

Calvinism does not prove determinism but actually demonstrate that god is bad concept fromt he start

>>131053291

That may be true! However, the fact remains, you cannot know something has happened unless it has been observed.

Free will is an illusion.Your subconscious makes the choices for you.

>>131053457
Yeah I tend to agree with this.

>>131053575

you cant delineate between the two. To be omniscient is to be omnipotent vice versa.

>>131050642
Sure, but we do have control over the disorder.

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>>131048668
Original sin forges human environment. You are living in a noosphere now, not in nature.
Anyone stating otherwise is a retard, even if it`s Peter Jordensen.

>>131048668
>"Your perception of reality is entirely subjective and based solely... "
Can I get a source on this quote?

>>131053849

No because you cannot know everything which can happen and have the capacity to change it simultaneously.

>>131053844
There's really nothing to disagree with. Say you learn that you have no free will whatsoever. You are a a meat ship piloted by the universe. Cool. You are going to spend the rest of your life on your preordained track if this is true, so what changes?

>>131049679
>Morality is objective but free will is subjective.

GTFO of here with this bullshit.

So wait. The universe has immutable laws, but my perception of reality is totally subjective? How are you arguing for objectivity and subjectivity simultaneously? Nobody believes that people aren't biased. We do believe that there's an objective reality, and it's in our own best interest to see past our bias.

Jordan Peterson is a hack. Watch him try and defend his religious belief; he's in total denial about the fact that his religious belief is totally juvenile and indefensible. He embarrassed himself twice in a debate with Sam Harris.

>>131053849
Omnipotence necessarily includes omniscience, sure, but omniscience, i.e. the ability to know anything and everything, can certainly exist without an ability to *do* anything and everything.

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>>131050200
>>131048668

He never said any of these quotes you're attributing to him.

"I'm a faggot" - OP

>>131054469
How does that contradict? The universe has immutable laws, yes. Your view of reality is informed by your understanding of it and judgements made, based on the information you collected with your physical faculties. The end result is a unique way of perceiving and interacting with reality.

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>>131054636
is that a sex offender lives matter sign behind her?

tha fuk?

>>131054298
I get your point. But if there is a fixed amount of probabilities and outcomes based on laws and you can traverse time you literally can.

I don't think everything is infinite. Laws of nature constrain possibilities which would mean events are fixed.

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>>131051848
He isn't at all. Just listen to him talk about the non-deterministic nature of being, the choice between good and evil and consciousness and you can tell he very much believes in free will (and believes very strongly in realizing it).

>>131054567
Listen, bucko.
((M A G N U M D O N G))
And that's THAT!

>>131052814
It's not a quote of him.

>>131054294
It's not real.

>>131054786
if the universe is finite it means that there is something out of it too.

*jordan peterson takes a dump*
>that's that
*toilet clogs*
>goddamn fucking lobster hierarchies!

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>>131048668
good shit why have I not heard of this before

>>131055224
it's OC

>>131051433
Who put the spooks in the universe? Pandora's spook box, or me?

>>131053561
>>131054460
He's religious you stupid cunts

>>131052580
not gonna lie, former free will voter here. it's fucking hilarious watching the illusion crash and burn. but seriously, we can't let these people believe that they have free agency.

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>>131055208

kekd

>>131048668
Dear OP,

This is the universe, and I have an important message for you.

Later today you will kill yourself.

It is not your choice but rather your destiny.

There is nothing you can do about it since there is no such thing as free will.

I just thought you should know. But what does knowing even mean...

Happy fate.

Yours faithfully,

Cosmo

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>>131056181
>the universe lives in Australia

>>131056310
we are the universe larping as humans.

>>131054793
I think you're thinking of Jordan Peterson. This is a Peter Jordanson thread

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>>131056393
True. Kind of cool really. Billions of years of chaos distilled into an arrangement of self aware atoms that is currently shitposting from a rectangle we put together to interact with each other within the area we are able to transmit and receive radio waves from metal poles wired to the web of copper, glass filaments, and switches that connect information hubs made from conducting elements that read and interpret magnetic poles on discs and sticks. Let's me send you this collection of pictures that display in sequence.

>>131056393
2deep5me

>>131050871
he says nothing that hasnt already been said.
its just that he says it on youttube

>>131052043
theyre not mutually exclusive positions.
free will being an illusion does not cancel out philosphical choice, because its simply part of the nature of being.
essentially free will is caused by not knowing the future, which humans do not know, unlike an omniscient god that logically does not experience free will

>>131052613
i guess its a kind of resignation to the human condition and nihilism.
theres no logical reason to reject nihilism, you just do it because you want to find meaning or something

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>>131048668
>Your perception of reality is entirely subjective and based solely on the machinations of an environment you have no control over.

That's completely self-contradictory and the opposite of what he would say. Yawn.

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>>131059087
>the opposite of what he would say

>>131048668
Never mind, this is amazing

>>131059363
>ID: Gekd
Get kek'd

>>131048668
>our perception of reality is entirely subjective and based solely on the machinations of an environment you have no control over

That sounds like a schizophrenic, trying to justify their mental illness.

>>131054770
I think it says "sex offender lives here"

>>131048668
>Your perception of reality is entirely subjective and based solely on the machinations of an environment you have no control over

What is "Schizophrenia" ?

Schizophrenia is a mental disorder characterized by abnormal social behavior and failure to understand what is real.[2] Common symptoms include false beliefs, unclear or confused thinking, hearing voices that others do not hear, reduced social engagement and emotional expression, and a lack of motivation.[2][3] People with schizophrenia often have additional mental health problems such as anxiety disorders, major depressive illness, or substance-use disorders.[10] Symptoms typically come on gradually, begin in young adulthood, and last a long time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

"Doctor" should diagnose himself. He's coo-koo

Christ you people are retarded. The whole point of the video is that he's been edited to say the opposite of what he thinks. It's a joke video.

>>131063074
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_4UFMp19tE

>>131062717
>Schizophrenia is a mental disorder characterized by abnormal social behavior and failure to understand what is real.[2] Common symptoms include false beliefs, unclear or confused thinking, hearing voices that others do not hear, reduced social engagement and emotional expression, and a lack of motivation.[2][3] People with schizophrenia often have additional mental health problems such as anxiety disorders, major depressive illness, or substance-use disorders.[10] Symptoms typically come on gradually, begin in young adulthood, and last a long time.

Sounds like Millennials and their faggoty fucking "autism"

No, you're a schizophrenic.

Millennials are all mentally ill retards.

Let's all laugh at Millennials

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>>131063922
Pleasure island, that's where you want to be. Pleaure is what defines us.

Pleasure island is the best place to HAPPEN to be.

>>131062717
The fuck, this "Doctor" and "PhD" in PSYCHOLOGY, just going to railroad the whole fucking field and past work and definitions of mental illness so he can make some youtube vidoes for retarded kids???

Fuck this hack loser.

Your spook is a spook

>>131063922
wtf this is legit better than jordan peterson
this guy should do this to all his lectures holy shit im fucking dying

THIS JUST IN!!
Canadian PhD and Doctor, rewrites definition of reality, changes his field for ever and throws out all past work of previous Psychologist, to make a point in some faggot youtube video for adult sized children.

HACK
FRAUD
LOSER


None of you losers can defend him. It's fucking ridiculous what this FRAUD is saying.
He's throwing everything his field taught him, out the fucking window and redefining everything to suit himself.

Sounds like a fucking KIKE and a fucking BABY KIKE (aka Millennial/GenZ mind whacked retard)

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hide-and-seek/201209/brief-history-schizophrenia

>The term ‘schizophrenia’ was coined in 1910 by the Swiss psychiatrist Paul Eugen Bleuler, and is derived from the Greek words ‘schizo’ (split) and ‘phren’ (mind). Bleuler had intended the term to refer to the dissociation or ‘loosening’ of thoughts and feelings that he had found to be a prominent feature of the illness.

FUCK HIM
Some Canadian faggot fraud loser liar pretender needs to make a youtube video for Sub IQ retard children in adult bodies.

CRIIICKETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

COME ON FANBOYS AND PAID SHILLS, Defend this fuckwit "professor"

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>>131062498
>>131062717
>>131064887
>>131065556
>>131065827

>being baited this hard.

>>131048668
>there is no free will
>larps as a Christian

Fuck this Harvard cia asset. I hope he fucking dies in agony.

>>131066116
>>being baited this hard.
Not any sort of defense for the bullshit coming out of your heros mouth
Try harder fuckwit.

This is a "bait" thread too??
This is a thread, to actually TRASH Jordumb Peterson and his pure bullshit "psychology"??
Had me fooled with all the cock sucking going on

>>131066261
harvard niggers btfo

>>131065827
he doesnt say anything remotely controversial

i doubt you even disagree with him

you're just a hysterical little bitch who can't handle things

sort yourself out

>>131066364
Shitskins are not welcome on pol. Neither are lolbertarians.

You are a cancer.

>>131048668
>t. the universe, not free will, caused me to tip my fedora

>>131066261
No idea how he got a job at Harvard.
They literally stuck him in a basement for 5 years and sent him "weirdo students with deep issues" that the other psychology profs didn't want to deal with.
When his contract was up, Harvard didn't rehire.
He hasn't taught in America since.
Waltz right into PhD Professor at U of T at the fresh faced age of 35, after 5 years at Harvard.

No teachers college, no teaching experience, here's a job at Harvard. Here's a Professor gig at U of T

>>131066116
Anon, thats peterson leaf.
He was touched by his peterson looking pa as a babe.

>>131066673
He's an intelligence asset selling Jungian ideas and kabbalah to stupid goyim with a predilection for spirituality. His function is to sterilize Christianity's affect of making people despise jewry, and to sterilize the spiritual aspects. This is why he sounds more like an agnostic-atheist larping as a Christian.

He's also part jewish, as he admitted on one of his live sessions.

>>131053561
>morality
>opinion
Ayy, go back to planet Tumblr, unless you are one.

>>131066449
>Your perception of reality is entirely subjective and based solely on the machinations of an environment you have no control over.

Spot the mind fucked retard millennial.

Here's a hint, it's (you), retard.

Reality is reality. You can't redefine it as some bullshit nonsense talk.

Fuck you're stupid. Have you considered suicide??
At least you're a 4channer and won't reproduce and spread ur stupid genes

>>131062498
V A L I S

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>>131066673
He, and all of these kekistani faggots and pseudo intellectual leafs are trying to "troll the trolls" with their shitty normalfag memes, videos, and ideas.

You're not funny, and you're not good at trolling even.

Memes don't work unless they are true. Fake memes are weeded out over time. Example: Biden memes. Just ended up morphing into the original which the cia tried to cover, the creepy pedophile outbursts of behavior of Biden touching and creepily sniffing kids.

>>131066853
Hitler was part Jewish too.

Now Kikes run the world on their sob story about Hitler trying to "exterminate" them.
He did a right shit job and handed them the world.
Cause he was actually on their side.

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>>131067047
>be leaf
>make abhorrent post

Every time.

Nietzsche

>>131067032
The fuck are you talking about faggot?
Everything I said is true.

Faggot nazi larper

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>>131067047
>actually on their side

Then why did this happen?

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>>131067208
>leaf

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>>131056393

>>131053738
Your life was dictated by genes and memes. Genes dictated your potential and upbringing dictated your ability to fulfill that potential. Everyone's life is in the hand of everyone else, who in turn have had their lives sorted by everyone else, and so and so forth. Peterson doesn't acknowledge this as far as I know. He calls out the disenfranchised who resent the successful for not accepting that the latter worked hard for what they have, but can't see that the golden boys were always going to end up that way.

>>131067159
LOL
Hitler was a Half-KIKE
Look it up you fuckwit low life, white trash beta fuckstain.

How many people died in WW2?
60,000,000
How many Jews did Hitler kill??
265,000 according to Red Cross

Austwischz was comfy as fuck according to the infographs on here.

Jews OWN all media, social media, since WW2

Hitler stole billions in art,silver and gold

>If you control the youth, you control the future
WHO Said that?
WHO owns all the media, you dickhead loser kids llook at 24.7??
KIKES

>If you tell a big enough lie, tell it often enough, everyone will believe it
WHO SAID THAT??
Hitler the half kike talking about the 6 BAJILLION deadk jews he didn't kill.

Faggot loser

>>131067281
Too bad they didn't gas that bastard and all his relatives.

>>131067504
You seem very EMPHATIC about spouting your bullshit. Are you a shill or an idiot?

>>131067281
Too steal his art and gold. Maybe he was a patsy.

Boy you're dumb as fuck. Don't leaver your moms trailer. The real world and county jail will eat you alive beta bitch.

>>131053575
>at the same time
But god exists outside of time

>>131067671
60,000,000 DEAD English, Russian,German and North American males.
Died fighting for or against Hitler and his "oppression" of the Jews.

60,000,000 people died in WW2
265,000 Jews died in WW2

Berlin got bombed
London got bombed
Moscow got bombed
Jews get Isreal made

You're dumb as fuck.
See, people like you, are the reason the Jews will always win. Your FEELINGS matter more than the truth.

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>>131048668
Keep making these threads and expose this charlatan. He should stick to self-improvement.

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>>131053738
Wrong. Immutable laws are actually non physical in nature.

Reason can extract things like morality, understanding about the physical world via mathematics, understanding of the world via language.

Free will is the volition of intelligence. It comes from God. You cannot quantify it because the material is sort of like how Newton invented calculus to help understand the root function's movements within any system.

The materialistic considerations we have of the world are first, second, and third order derivations of the root functions of immutable laws, logical constants. These "transcendentals" are what define free will, mathematics, morality etc.

It is similar to the reasoning behind the number "1". You can arbitrarily define any piece of material world as "1", but your observation materialistically is a set of relative changes, similar to calculus, more a mirror of "1". The arbitrary perception of 1 cell, 1 rock, 1 hand 1 anything is irrelevant to the underlying reasoning behind 1, which can also give us a priori information about the universe without any sensory experience or information about said world. This is because the universe is a hologram which exists via transcendentals operating within the world.

You fundamentally don't understand what "reality" is if you think we can even model it materialistically. The material is the change of the relative transcendental immutable constants. You can merely infer the transcendental, you cannot prove it using evidence, because that would be an infinite regression unto itself. Prove "1"? How do you do it? You cannot do it physically, but as a logical tool it can tell us a lot about the world., Thus the underlying language of the universe is more important than the materialistic changes of the syntax laws you intuitively understand.

>>131048668
sam harris is the worst atheist. you can see that dead inside please kill me now look every time he speaks.

>>131064887
>>131065556
LOL butthurt tranny detected

>>131066868
>Reality is reality. You can't redefine it as some bullshit nonsense talk.

>>131048668
So you're telling me I can't help but want to remove kebab?

>>131068471
>LOL butthurt tranny detected

Smugfrog.jpg

Take off faggot, I just 4chan REKT you like a boss.

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>>131068765
Can we ban canadians entirely please?

>immutable laws and rules
Citation needed

>>131069204
...Peter Jordensen

>>131053018
The physicalist model was made invalid at the fundamental level when bell theorem ruled out local hidden variable and thus physical locality. Kochen–Specker theorem went further when it "excluded hidden variable theories that require elements of physical reality to be non-contextual (i.e. independent of the measurement arrangement)." There is a reason reality is statistical and probabilistic at the fundamental level of our reality. Statistical and probabilistic simulations are dynamic and conducive to free will. The quantum simulation which we call reality was set up by the initiator for the purpose to give the players choice. Though it is constrained heavily by the ruleset we call the unconscious.

>>131048668
>immutable laws and rules
there is no scientific evidence that the laws of physics cannot be changed by the universe.

especially if you account for multiverse theory.

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>>131069932
word salad.

>>131068932
>Can we ban canadians entirely please?

lauhgingfrogholdingwineglass.jpg

Newfaggot much kid??
Reddit is down the hall, you fucking pleb. Everyone knows, some of the mods are leafs and that's why leafs will never be ranger banned.

Done embarrassing yourself, faggot?

>>131067977
>You fundamentally don't understand what "reality" is if you think we can even model it materialistically.
This is correct. These materialists/physicalist are stuck in the 1900's.

>>131070214
It's the truth. Determinism only works once uncertainty is resolved by measurement. Consciousness resolves uncertainty. Consciousness is the interface which gives qualia to the 1s and 0s of our information based reality.

>>131070949
Look m8 Peter Jordensen has a Phd from theuniversity of Stockholme Sweden, you're a fucking nobody. Stop trying to search for meaning in a world you cannot control It's delusional thinking, it'll only hurt you in the end. Same with trying to out-think Jordensen, it's a losing set.

>>131052814

>someone asks themselves

Because the laws of physics stop at the edge of the human brain?

>>131070949
>Determinism only works once uncertainty is resolved by measurement.
Determinism isn't the only alternative to free will, though. Just because a purely deterministic model cannot be applied to quantum phenomena doesn't lend credence to any conception of "free will".

>Consciousness is the interface which gives qualia to the 1s and 0s of our information based reality.
Blah. Prove your shit.

>>131053673

That has nothing to do with the topic.

Also, I am observing me calling you a faggot.

Faggot.

goddamn is /pol. stupid, Ham Sarris is right here and Peter Jordanson is a commie sjw, the debate ended abruptly but Peter insisted pn pissing off Ham.

>>131048668
Just fuck this drug fucked retard and his (((psychology))) bullshit

>>131071457
>Determinism isn't the only alternative to free will, though. Just because a purely deterministic model cannot be applied to quantum phenomena doesn't lend credence to any conception of "free will".
That's where quantum contextuality comes in with regard to the Kochen–Specker theorem. The experimenters choice of the set up of the measurement effects the result.
Here is and article that talks about another experiment that takes it even further.
The Free Will Theorem of Conway and Kochen
http://www.informationphilosopher.com/freedom/free_will_theorem.html
>Blah. Prove your shit.
It's not my shit. It's a model put forward by Donald D. Hoffman is Professor of Cognitive Science, University of California, Irvine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSBbGr0pELQ

>>131074172
Appreciate the sources. I'll check them out.

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itt: anons at the height of mount stupid cite randomness as proof of free will.

it's random you morons.