What does /pol/ think of unions?

I think that we should have btfo'ed those negro loving cucks long ago.

>>130614040
Unions are good

>>130614209
Why?

Why are they better than a true free market?

>>130614811
Weekends are now for the boys

>>130614811
They can exist within a free market. It's when they legislate their goals and reduce the freedom of the market that they become a problem. It's not like they're alone, the job creaters will always try to use the government to their advantage as well.

>>130614811
Unions protect the workers right. Without them the working class may as well be slaves.

Also, liking the Unions is not a "commie" thing... Nat-Soc is also pro-unions.
Capitalist are the only one who hate them and that's becaus they jews

>>130614040
Unions provide lawyers, and a chain of command for dealing with labor issues like benefits and environmental safety hazards. That being said, corruption follows the dollar.

>>130614040
Rick Wilson is a cuck

>>130614040
The trade unions are the breeding grounds of international communism.

>>130615712
Plenty of people don't have unions and aren't slaves. Isn't that the logic from 100 years ago?

>>130615548
That is what I am referring to.

I look at teachers unions and don't understand why they get special treatment when your average working man has to compete with everyone else.

File: pledgeofalegience.jpg (443KB, 1600x1243px) Image search: [Google]

443KB, 1600x1243px

>>130614040
Unions are very helpful way for workers to leverage the right to fair pay. There also needs to be a free market to help keep things in check. There is lots to it politically and in skills and specializations.

t: Union Steamfitter.

>>130614040
What kind of hat is that?

>>130616948
Doesn't the market determine what is fair?

>>130617015
A tipped one?

File: 10560_10151512034037358_388757716_n.jpg (129KB, 568x701px) Image search: [Google]

129KB, 568x701px

>>130614040
I think as long as The Jew is running things they're necessary.
I'm in a Building Trades Union myself.
Once society and the market gets to the point that joining a Union is your second best option, they'll disappear.

>>130617168
Fuck off kek fag. Anybody know what country made the hat in the OP? I have a feeling its surplus or reproduction European military.

>>130614040
Collective bargaining is the only way to not get fucked by robber barons and others who want to devalue your contributions as a human being as much as possible.

>>130617074
Yes. And when the Labor Organizes the commodities they own (their labor) they get a big role in what The Market decides.

>>130617015
German WWII-era Army/SS cap.

>>130614040
Unions are awful, breeding grounds for lazy bastards.

t. Someone who works with one every day

There is nothing necessarily wrong with unions. Workers should be able to freely associate and petition for whatever they want. The problem comes in when the state gets involved and starts working on behalf of the unions. You end up with noncompetitive industry. Think Detroit.

File: wallsurvey.jpg (108KB, 894x652px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 894x652px

>>130617074
>Doesn't the market determine what is fair?
Markets determine the lowest price. Workers determine the highest price based on what someone will pay. There are more factors to labor than simply walking up to the check out and forcing a clerk to scan all 11 of the exact same energy bar instead of just typing 11 into her terminal.

In the instances where Union labor competes with Non-organized labor (which is requires for proper market reasons) the price of the job dictates the profit....However the job goes to the most qualified based on many variables. Let that sink in. The same exact job pays the company the same exact price. One group men get paid twice the other....Where does that extra money go?

Well, I work for a union, and this means that the companies that I work for make a bit less overall per project....However, they can quickly staff up and down based on need because they have access to a large pool of overqualified labor. They can run many many jobs if they so choose, and some companies do. These companies have no issue keeping the foreman driving new trucks, so the formula must be working.

Whenever a group of skilled guys start hanging out and get sick of not getting raises, they will organize.

t: Steamfitter

>>130618674
OK you can hang out with your pals. I do the same thing with my fellow engineers and we each get paid based on the value of our work.

Why do you need special rules to be hired? If you are better at your job than the next guy, and aren't overpriced, then you will get hired.

Why do teachers need unions? It seems to lead to shit service that rewards seniority.

>>130616948
Modern unions, particularly large ones, tend to be glorified job placement agencies and for-profit businesses. When membership starts running into the thousands and tens of thousands, the union tends to ignore any individual disputes and only bothers to get off its ass if an entire site's worth of workers complain. And the fact that they have special legislative protections doesn't help. Especially so when it comes to the cancerous public sector unions.

Agreed that a free market is necessary. There is nothing immoral about organized labor, the problem comes in when they use the state, rather than negotiation, to get their way.

t. boilermaker

>>130618674
10 years Steamfitting this Sept.
I'm UA682 in Sydney, NS, CAN
Good to be in the thread w/ you, brother.

Unions are just a monopoly for laborers.

Are monopolies good?

>Get job at ralphs
>Have to join union because muh discounts
>lose $447 a year for no reason

>>130619314
Well, they're breddy gud if you're in them.

Even in the broken window parable, the window repairman still makes out like a bandit, despite destruction being economically harmful on the whole.

>>130619314
I think a monopoly can rarely be justified. Patents for high risk high value ventures are the best example.

Otherwise I don't get why these clubs get laws tailored to them as if they are incapable of being normal workers. Maybe they are.

>>130619519
That's how Jews think.

>>130617464
>Collective bargaining is the only way to not get fucked by robber barons and others who want to devalue your contributions as a human being as much as possible.

Truth. Unions were responsible for putting a floor under American's wages during the gravy days. Unions are gone, and now nearly everyone's standard of living and working conditions are going to shit. Automation didn't help, but most of the problem is due to free trade and union busting.

Government unions should be illegal. Why do pigs need unions?

>>130619165
>Why do you need special rules to be hired?
We don't. We group together to offer an advantage, if that's what ya mean.
> If you are better at your job than the next guy, and aren't overpriced, then you will get hired.
And many choose that route.
>Why do teachers need unions? It seems to lead to shit service that rewards seniority.
Ya see that's the kinda Union I'm opposed to in theory. It's not voluntary.

>>130614811
How is it a free market if there's no mechanism for criticizing management or improving wages and conditions?

>>130619604
Well yeah, why do you think they have so much money?

>>130616850
Aren't most teachers' unions in the public sector?

>>130619526
>I think a monopoly can rarely be justified
It's not a monopoly. No one is entitled to my labor. Period. I get to decide how I go about offering it out. Anything else is the Government owning your labor; slavery.
If a company can't attract workers to their job because the Union refuses to work with them, how is that my problem?

>>130619857
In the real world if you don't like management you find a different job. Or fucking deal with it.
If they offer you too little pay then you find a different job. Or deal with it.
And if you want better laws you have modern things like OSHA and your Congressman. Or deal with it.
When everyone does this then the market will reach equilibrium. No special rules needed with political corruption.

>>130615712
Bullshit. Workers now have established rights with or without unions. Call OSHA if you have a problem. I worked at a factory where the Union forced us to keep every dumb nigger that was hired. Didnt matter that if they were shit workers who cost us money. Didnt matter that their stupidity caused accidents. Fucking Union just kept tacking on retarded safety messures. So goddamn glad I dont work there anymore. I now work at a place that weeds out the idiots and increases the pay for competent workers.

>>130619943
Because they are scum and find ways to cheat honest people you fucking faggot.

I'm a Union member and I fucking hate them. More interested in scoring political points that fighting for any rights. They hit the "SJW ceiling" as I like to call it. People have damn good working conditions these days so in order for them to appear relevant they have to turn the screws on Employers hard.

>>130620377
Also this.

>>130614040
constructionist, commie, rent seeking faggots
kill with fire

>>130620021
Most schools are publicly funded. I don't know how that changes things.

they do good and make me good foldin money

t. tony

>>130620468
>>130620377
These aren't arguments against Unions in a Free Market.
They're criticisms of how the Union you worked for ran. Valid criticisms and companies make the same ones and consider those fats before deciding whether or not to go Union.
As I said before, once the market gets to the point that joining a Union and hiring a Union is your 2nd best option, they'll disappear.

File: localrockingreatmood.jpg (163KB, 720x747px) Image search: [Google]

163KB, 720x747px

>>130619165
>Why do you need special rules to be hired?
There are no special rules aside from a certain skillset based on each union. There is quite a bit of training, as an educated engineer you understand what 4 years of school is as well.

I too spent 4 years as an apprentice, and became a great part of my field.

>>130619165
>If you are better at your job than the next guy, and aren't overpriced, then you will get hired.

We are all over qualified. Part of the equation is that there is a legal and unspoken agreement between the workers, the union and the contractor. We have a group effort mentality. If one fails, we all could fail. However, when we all do well it is very beneficial to everyone. We also make sure we have benefits and retirements. Ours has a very good health and welfare program. I am paying into some retiree's vacation right now. I suck, because I pull mine out and reinvest elsewhere.

I think you missed the point about the pay. We are all paid the same in my hall. It is close to what I consider the "max" amount for the location. It is not like I am underpaid because the guy next to me can't weld as fast. But at the end of the day, he is still meeting the deadlines for work.....

>>130619165
>Why do teachers need unions?
I fail to understand teachers unions or goverment civil jobs. At that point it seems very redundant ...but I was only a Asfcme member for 6 years in my younger days. It seems easy to grade a teacher based on overall student abilities.

>>130619282
>Modern unions, particularly large ones, tend to be glorified job placement agencies and for-profit businesses.

I agree. I advise other Brothers to fight the idea of locals joining together. Larger locals removes the identity of "local".

>>130620895
>once the market gets to the point that joining a Union and hiring a Union is your 2nd best option, they'll disappear.
This. Unions can do things that cannot be done any other way. We have a world wide network.

>>130616335
The reason those that aren't in unions have decent work and safety conditions is because of the rights fought for by union.
I'm not a union fan boy but they have done a lot of good. I've been a member of two unions. The railways union and the meat workers,
Fees for both was around $40-$50 a month, funnily enough, if i joined my employers would give me a $100 a month bonus.

>>130621720
I don't disagree that they were good for a time. But now that OSHA sets standards the whole safety issue isn't really compelling. It's like saying we still need groups to stop child labor in our factories.

File: Roofwork062017.jpg (1MB, 2560x1920px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2560x1920px

>>130622916
>I don't disagree that they were good for a time. But now that OSHA sets standards the whole safety issue isn't really compelling.
OSHA is a non-issue in the sense that you are 100% correct. Everyone has to adhere to it.

In some senses my hall acts like a glorified temporary labor service. And it works great for me and my schedule. I just came off of a 3 straight week 12 on/12 off shift. I take 4 days off and do it again. I think that the big benefit is that an prospective employer can call and request on-file certs. Our hall in addition to keeping certs on file makes sure that training is available. All state cert'd tests are proctored by 3rd part and admin'd by officials of the tests. It gets pretty hairy at times...(5 minutes late, try again in 6 months).

In addition an employer can down staff at the end of the project, and have no hard feelings. You may get the same guy later on for another gig, and if it went well he may push more also.

We are a close knit group of men who are really over trained...but we all know each other and do work as a team overall. We have our blockheads, but who does not. I can be one at times.

We are not so much as a monopoly on labor as much as a very large and cohesive unit of specialized and skilled labor.

There are pros and cons. My lifestyle and my choices keep me working out of the hall. I have taken advantage of their training, and have access to work all day long. What employer goes out of their way to educate their men.

I grossed $3900 the other week. I can live with that.

>>130624275
>$3900
You baller, yeah I really don't get unions anymore when we have govt regs to give you benefits after 32 hrs, safety standards, lunch breaks, and shit.

File: 1418861439592.jpg (83KB, 610x813px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 610x813px

I don't really care about unions too much, but they are the MOST OBVIOUS place to split the democratic party.

Dems are too interested in playing identity politics, and the union members see it.

File: Hot Roof Soup .jpg (2MB, 1920x2560px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1920x2560px

>>130624665
>yeah I really don't get unions anymore when we have govt regs to give you benefits after 32 hrs, safety standards, lunch breaks, and shit.
Thats all good and fine if you want the bare minimum. You want a major project done, feel free to shop around for the cheapest bidder. There is a real reason why all major mechanical installations have union presences....geographically it may vary from many to few.....I am in a pretty split state, and we are on the losing end of a long term battle.

I addressed everything you complained about from the post you quoted. I am sorry I didn't put out a cliffnotes for millennials.

>OHSA is irrelevant when you plan to outdo it
>Unions offer training to over-educate their members
>Union members generally work well together
>Is a lifestyle that requires adjustment to
>Get paid for being overqualified

>>130624994
>Dems are too interested in playing identity politics, and the union members see it.
Dems lost the unions this cycle. It is obvious from the swing states that voted the way they did. What I think was a big part of it was that they were cramming hillary down our throats before the primary......she was shilled way too hard, and people revolted against everything she stood for.

>>130624994
>I don't really care about unions too much, but they are the MOST OBVIOUS place to split the democratic party.
In my Union in Canada, 40+ is mainly for the left. They're from times when the right was Union breaking and that's in their blood.
40 and under, rapidly swinging to the right. Left wants to destroy the economy in which we need to have jobs and yeah, Identity politics and cuckoldry.