Should prisons be more about punishment or more about rehabilitation?

more about executions

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>>130552688

>>130552617
Do your own Philosophy homework scrub. The answer is punishment.

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>>130552688
>>130552861

Rehabilitation for drug users so violent offenders can take their place in prison instead of getting plead down sentences that allow then to be repeat offenders.

>>130552688
Checked. Some people are just irredeemable, best not to waste any further time, energy or resources on them.

>>130552617

It depends on the offender. Certain people cannot be rehabilitated. Others can.

why not both?

>>130552617
more about punishment. Like the old jails in medieval times. Single man cell with a toilet and a bunk, with torches, other cells around you to chat and walking guards. The sentences were much less long

>>130553111
echoed & witnessed

>>130552617
Neither. It's about keeping them away from the rest of society.

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>>130552617
Rape.

>>130552688
Fucking this, rehabilitation is an utopia. If you break the law the only thing you deserve is a bullet right through your skull, period.

>>130552617
More about repaying the debt they owe their victims/society.
They grow their own food and they sell any excess they have if they want to afford any luxuries.

>>130553682
>an

>>130552688
Bigly

Rehabilitation is such a meme.

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>>130553682
>If you break the law the only thing you deserve is a bullet right through your skull, period

>>130553682
It really depends on the crime, though, and strength of the conviction. Wouldn't want to kill innocents while the actual perp is still at large

>>130553943
better not stand still for more than 15 minutes at a time then.

Harder sentences:
>more crime
>slave prison system
>nobody changes
>excessive use of force from police

Light sentences
>less criminals
>less crimes
>better prison system
>change to get a job after makes some quit shit like drugs

And on the philosophical point of view we are what we are and it's wrong to punish for it. Prisons are only show for power against stupid/poor people, no real moral behind it.

>>130554122
i was just kidding desu, i agree, the wages of sin is death. But grace is an important part of life too.

>>130552617
Both hard labour and service to the state, but rewards for work well done. If the person behind bars is going to be released the should be rehabilitated, but they must also face consequences for their actions.

>>130552617
Anyone who says "punishment" cares more about appeasing their fee-fees than making society a better place.

Who gives a shit what someone "deserves"? Once their punishment is done they'll be right back where they started. The only possible reason punishment would be a solution is because we like how it feels. There's no logic to it. It doesn't even work as a deterrent.

>>130554038
It's a small price to pay to get rid of criminals. Anyways you don't have to worry about a thing if you don't break the law.

>>130554649
And that makes you perfect for a slave. You just obey until one day it´s 1984. Ironically then you want to start your life as a criminal.

>>130552617
There should be prisons for rehabilitating petty criminals and drug addicts and labor camps for murderers and the such.
>>130552688
Yes, execution is the only way to get rid of people that simply won't change.

>>130552617
Less about slavery.

>>130552617
>Make drug offenses a health issue
>Minor crimes (theft, assault ect.) are paid by reparations in the form of labour
>Major crimes (rape, murder ect.) are punished by stockade
>Pick an island, use the waters and skies as practice for the military
>Prisoners must build their own functional society or die on that island
>The mentally ill who commit major crimes must undergo treatment, and pay diminished reparations to society at large

Prisons are pointless. They breed just as many lifelong criminals as they deter. Rehabilitation, outside of crimes committed due to extenuating circumstances (addiction, poor health, endangerment ect.) barely works.

>>130554981
Should every murderer be killed? Or is there some "selfdefense/actofkindness/rightfulvengeance" kind of shit you would like to include in the law?

>>130554232
What a retard

Go to France once in a while, where you get 2 to 6 years for killing someone

>>130552617
Neither. The answer is incapacitation.

>>130552617
They should be a deterrent

>>130552617

Prisons are not intended to punish or rehab, but to protect society from criminals, by keeping them behind bars.

Who the hell do you think you are? The God who punish or the saints who rehab?

>>130555251
France, unlike your country, is considered as a real society. Not some hillbillys vs black druggies fighting under billionares rules.

>>130552688
Flag checks out, Ahmed and friends want executions back

>>130555251

Wrong, it's 20+ years for 1st degree murder.
Maybe lifetime with 25 years surety (without possibility of parole) for child murderers, hate crimes, terrorism...

>>130552617
Prisons should not even 'be' in the first place.

Temporary confinement only, until you figure out what to do with the person is. Once the verdict is done, apply punishment and let person free to go; or bury.

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Certainly punisment system in USA sucks.

>>130554876
Most people in America only go to jail if they do a violent crime or commit another kind of serious felony. Hardly 1984 if you decide to not stab and rob people.

>>130552617
Both

>>130556002
Our 'punishment' system is extremely outdated too. It's not fit for what's happening in the 21st century.

>>130552617
If you're going to imprison someone for more than 10 years, you should just kill them, its better for everyone involved.

maximum sentence should be like 13 years beyond which you just offer the guy a death sentence.

The cell should be single manned, and only outings once in a while. Modern jails are too small and too cosy, you eat outside, you have time outside, you share the cell, can watch tv. I'd far quicker pick a true jail sentence for a shorter span than a modern shared cell with accommodations like in the modern American system- not that i've ever been in jail.

>>130556188
What is the point punishing about violent deeds when whole corrupted society does 10 times more damage? One murderer equals shit compared to one corrupt politician.

>>130556403
Now tell me what punishment do you suggest there should be for corrupted politicians and maybe we're in full agreement.

>>130555992
Excellent idea here. The resources involved in just holding a person in a specific spot for a set amount of time already makes the idea retarded, outside of all the other emergent flaws.

>>130552617
>Should prisons be more about punishment or more about rehabilitation?

How about just fucking keeping the dangerous people locked up??

>>130552617
Punishment. In fact, imprisioning as a punishment is an enourmous waste of resources, it's a fairly recent idea that everyone just accepted.
Punishment should be physical, or humiliating.

>>130556068
bullshit people are going to jail for almost nothing these days.

>>130556002
Implying you can rehabilitate feral animals.

>>130552617
obviously rehabilitation

ask yourself this, what is better, a safer society or a society where you get to trigger your primitive need for revenge that both science and history have shown create repeat offenders.

I think that they need to take into account how smart the criminal is and their general situation, some people can't be helped and have to be kept away, but then for society, not to punish the individual

>>130556540
There was an old Finnish inmate once who was about to be released at the age of 60 or so, I don't remember the story now. He declared that he didn't want to go out, he had nothing. Officials said sorry, have to stick to the program.

He said ok, if you let me out I will kill someone that comes in my way.
So they kept him in.

Depriving someone of his freedom does SHIT when it comes to rehabilitation. Either end them and better luck in the next life, or let them free. I don't know who figured it's civilized to deprive a person of his freedom just to keep them alive. It's a fate worse than death.

>>130556868
There is an exception called prior convictions. If you do misdemeanor assaults over and over, then you can become what's called a habitual offender, which brings jail time.

>>130556510
Every politician is corrupted by one way or another. People should stop giving their power away by voting and forget democracy. In the end people give away freedom for security just because they can´t handle the responsibility and sacrifices it takes to be a free man.

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>>130555759
>hate crimes
when will this meme die?
Literally punishing people for thoughtcrimes

>>130557074
you go to jail if you have unpaid parking tickets too.

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>>130556968
prisons dont create repeat offenders. Modern accomodations in comfy prisons that make the prisoner act tough does. If he's going to become a bigger criminal its bad. This is why it should be like it was during medieval times. As i wrote, just about all the time spent alone in a larger cell. Similar to pic related

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This

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>>130556068
yeah, right.

http://www.wnd.com/2017/02/28-years-in-prison-for-racial-slurs-at-black-childs-party/

http://www.ctvnews.ca/norwegian-tourist-made-wrong-turn-sentenced-to-7-5-years-1.801938


its like you are not even trying, there are loads of these cases, ever done a google search in your life before?

>>130552617
Prisons should be about prevention and rehabilitation. Punishment is an integral part of both.

We know very little about rehabilitation, but I do believe reforms are needed; the view that punishment should be done away with is utterly ridiculous though.

>>130557152
>they can´t handle the responsibility and sacrifices it takes to be a free man.

I may not agree fully on your democracy part, but being a free man is the alpha and omega of my premise too.

I think we are like-minded that there should be no prisons at all. Some punishment and let free again or hang. Most politicians get the noose as well.

>>130557175
>Literally punishing people for thoughtcrimes

You may think what you want, until you don't tell it in public. Even in soviet dictatorship, you could think whatever you wanted.

To deny holocaust, in France, costs your some months/years.

To kill someone costs you years.
To kill someone only because he's jewish, muslim, gay -any color you like- costs you more.

Can't say if good or bad. It's a fact.

They should be more apt to discern between those who can be rehabilitated and those who can't. Those who can ought to have reasonable resources dedicated toward that end; those that can't ought not to be warehoused, but rather put down. This is the maximal-utility option.

>>130557748
I forgot to add that it depends also if they're white.

If not: bullet.

Punitive theory complete.

>>130552688
fpbp

>>130552617
Punishment is stupid in most cases, being in prison is punishment enough. No use making people hate the establishment even more.

>>130552688
This too. Some people are too far gone and there's no point in trying to help. I do think the person should have to consent, otherwise it turns into a way for the government to silence dissidents.

>>130552617
I know this is pol, but I'm going to say they should be for keeping society safe. If there's a bear in the middle of the city, we shoot it, or capture it and move it to zoo where it won't hurt anybody. I feel this is the purpose of prison as well. Some people are pure psychopaths and need to be kept far away from the rest of the population. If a better way to keep us safe came around (like a pill that cures violent impulses), then I'd do away with prisons instantly.

>>130556840
Why create a situation where the prisoners is filled with more hate, loathing and a burning desire for revenge?

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>>130552617
Neither. Prisons should be about working.

>>130557688
You can't say if it's good or bad that the punishment is tailored based on the religious or ideological orientation of the victim?

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>>130556002
>homicide deaths divided by race
>no mention of who is committing those murders

>>130557515
Did you even read the second article?
He got 7.5 years for running over somebody.

>>130557366
Then how come the problem exist in shit prisons like those in the US where the conditions are third world in many areas, how come tough prison never works anywhere but the countries who also include rehabilitation in their programs have less repeat offenders?

>>130552617
If you're smart about it, there is no difference between punishment and rehabilitation.

But there should also be some more executions.

>>130557048
Yes. The way it is now, it doesn't rehabilitate, it doesn't punish in a way that strongly deters, and it's expensive. That such a worthless system is the global standard is crushing.

At least there is momentum in this field towards changing these systems. Not only that, but diversity in the international goals here means we'll find a better system soon enough.

Definitely. We need to make people scared of committing a crime. That's the only way to reduce the crime rate. The "legal" system in first world countries is way too lax.

>>130558128
After they chimped out and attacked his car and he panicked, yeah

only in lardland would they disregard the situation like that for the benefit of having someone in jail, make the owners rich!

>>130557175
>in a /pol/ discussion, doesn't know what a hate crime is

>>130552617
Corrections officer here.
AMA

Also, it needs to be rehabilitation. Most of them end up back in the streets, if you make it a 2-4-10 year or whatever sentence pure punishment they all end up batshit crazy, i see it every day.
They need tools to be reintegrated into society or they just end up costing the state more and more each year.

>>130557941
>keeping society safe

So what do you think is more 'civilized' for the sake of your safety, to deprive a creature of its life or of its freedom?

>>130557909
>Some people are too far gone

Depends on your own values.

For some people, killing a nigger doesn't deserve death penalty.

For some people, killing a wild animal deserve torture, then execution.

>a way for the government to silence dissidents

Precisely.
What is the meaning of a "dissident" for common people, politicians, business owners, immigrants, feminists...

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>>130558122
>no mention of who is committing those murders

fucking white males, of course

In defense of cucked Europe...

Norway's approach to rehabilitating criminals works, because most of their crooks are just frustrated white people who endured years of hardship and abuse from an overly leftist society that hates them. Whites are capable of committing horrific crimes when pushed to the brink, but they generally feel some sort of empathy and remorse after the fact.

In the US, you can't rehabilitate criminals because most american criminals are nigs and spics with low IQ and a burning hatred of the criminal justice system and white people. Those fucks cannot be rehabilitated, only beaten and broken.

>>130552617
Neither. Prison should be about turning a profit on prison labor. Why should the hard working population provide 3 meals and a bed for prisoners?

>>130558153
you don't actually believe this do you?

You don't believe jailing people work?

What doesn't work is as i said, when you have people mingle all day many times, have shared cells, close cells with other cell mates to chat and act tough all day, tiny cells, tvs, workout outside, cigarettes, etc. Everything there is the problem, not jails as such.

>>130558505
Im not sure where that pic comes from, but in the prison i work at its pretty straight forward who is and isnt white.

>>130555212
Something like that should be included. I said labor camps for those criminals though (they should pay back the harm they did to society)

>>130557545
Of course this would be fucked completely by people in power but in imaginary "always right decision world" it would be just perfect.

>>130558341
why don't you tell me then?
I took a quick glance at wiki article and to me it seems just like "racism", i.e. a phrase coined and used by marxsists to defend degenerates, inferiors and foreigners.

>>130558459
On a side note, you just described why multiculturalism and diversity will never work. Not because of skin colors and shit, but because people who have a gigantic chasm between their ideologies simply cannot coexist in any way.
It just so happens that people of similar ethnic background share the most when it comes to ideological and cultural norms.

>>130558074
>the punishment is tailored based on the religious or ideological orientation of the victim?

Implying than some religions/sex orientations deserve more punishment than other.

Precisely the degeneracy we're in.

>>130558505
When applying to university their are two different boxes for "White Hispanic" and "Non-white Hispanic."

I still don't know what the difference is.

>>130558846
I mean *there

>>130552688
But i thoughy in the bible it said "thou shalt not kill"

>>130553924
Right
Rehab to what?
To when?

Such a huge percentage of prisoners are either crazy or drug addicts. Rehab or something like it makes sense for them. Violent criminals should be separated. I also hate the idea of prisoners self policing and going after other prisoners. Prison gangs should be broken up ruthlessly.

>>130556002
It's a nigger (and spic) problem, really. But mostly a nigger problem. It is sad. These people are genetically engineered farm equipment, now broken and relegated to the welfare plantations. And they can't acknowledge the realities because the Jew pushes the religion of "muh we are all equal"

>>130552617
Depends on the crime, but more inclined to rehabilitation.

Not based on the "people can change" cuckery, but the fact that these people are going back to the streets in a matter of time.

Most criminals are people who did not have a chance to be brought up in a civil environment and end up in a life of crime due to their toxic environment. These people should be rehabilitated.

The mentally ill should be case studied and kept away from society.

>>130558777
You are way too optimistic/idealist to be a Finn, kamu :DDD

>>130553378
Yea boi! This guy knows whats up!

>>130554038
>it depends on the crime
That's where you're wrong kiddo

It depends on the law, don't be retarded.
Change the law if you want.

>>130558513
You are speaking out of your ass, the jail i work with is mostly whites and blacks hardly no spics.

Most of our less empathetic criminals, the most annoying and self mutilators are overwhelmingly white. The niggers keep to their groups

>>130552617
There is literally no evidence that rehabilitation works.

Prison serve two needs:
1) containment for the dregs of society
2) negative incentive to discourage others from breaking the law

Rehabilitation to be honest, most inmates aren't serving life sentences and will be back on the streets in a few years.

>>130558658
if they ever are to be let out into society again they kinda have to have most of those things, imagine being in prison for 8 years, you have been isolated from any normal human being, only talking to your guard or doctor, forced into machine like routines and have your whole day pre planned for you

when you get out of that prison the only thing you can do is fail.

Countries with shit prisons have higher rates of repeat offenders because prisoners can't function in normal society when they leave

>>130552688
Fpbp, the army should purge everyone who is there.

>>130559080
>''you are speaking out of your ass''
>proceeds with anecdotal arguments

Just so you know, you are not really contributing anything.

>>130559100

The current system has very very small focus on rehabilitation.

>>130552617
Hint
Look into the DEA teaming up with the CCA to re-inslave blacks, and who led the organizations.

Even the good ones

>>130559080
You're an idiot.
Self harm is evidence of guilt and remorse.

And how is nigger tribalism in prisons evidence of their 'hidden humanity'? You must be a kike who runs a private prison in california.

>>130552617

rehab for everyone that's serving <30 years

desu shoot everyone else

>>130558831
>multiculturalism and diversity will never work

Not only.
Humans are social animals.
Implying human relations.
Implying conflicts, even in the same group (skin color for instance)
Therefore, laws are mandatory in society.
Amount and perimeters of laws is politics.

>ethnic background share the most when it comes to ideological and cultural norms
Obviously.
Politicians who allow importation of different cultures within a homogeneous society are guilty.

>>130558402
What kind of prison do you work at? What are most people in for, in a general sense? What ratio of inmates seem to you to be: 1) made foolish mistakes and are awaiting a release and being regular citizens, 2) might have to resort to crime on the outside if they have to, but don't want to, 3) are probably going to have to be criminals when released, 4) are actually insane and sort of outside this scope, 5) whatever other category I'm missing.

Also, for those above categories, what impact do you think regulations like 1) more rehabiliation / education / job training, 2) harsher sentences, 3) other possible changes would have on these groups?

>>130559100
look outside your own country, your country actively try to create criminals because its a business, ofc it would not work in the USA where everyone works against it and have good incentives to have it fail

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it should unironically be about profit
if the stats tell us this person will be a net loss to society, career criminal or unemployable, off him

>>130559027
I know :D Although I have consider the fact that punishing corrupt/evil persons would be also wrong. After all they rule the world, are usually cleaver enough not to get caught and cannot contain their desires. I´m not sure are these things something to be hanged for, they are very human things to do.

>>130552617
I've saw a meme about there being more people in prison today, than have every been ever.

Also
>Prison =/= bondage
2D lines are blurring as we enter 4D.
Think 3 Dimensionally.

>>130558927
Its thou shall not commit murder.

>>130552617
Punishment. Rehabilitation is a meme.

No one has the right to commit a crime. It's forbidden by default. Therefore if someone commits a crime, they must be punished, not cared for. Criminals don't deserve help, they don't deserve compassion, they don't deserve care. They deserve punishment, because they did something they had no right to do.

Rehabilitation is for children, and even then it's achieved through punishment. That's why children don't get held responsible for crimes, or only in special cases - because they're still learning about responsibility, social and legal norms etc. That's why they're cared for and if do something wrong, the punishment they receive is aimed to rehabilitate them. Adults, on the other hand, are independent individuals able to distinguish good from evil or lawful from unlawful, and if they commit a crime, it's because they chose not to, therefore there should be no talk of rehabilitation, just punishment.

>>130552617
Former CO here. I am split because every inmate is different but they can be put into two major groups (regardless of race), basically nature vs nurture.
>Social rejects
You have the inmates who were raised in fucked up environments but are decent people. Broken homes, poverty, violence and sexual assault at home. There men are not bad people, they have hearts and are intelligent but the environment that raised them made them this, way and the horrors of prison made them even worse. Weird thing is that these men go on to become gang leaders and rule over the next group.
>Biological criminals
These men were born of women's fetish for badboys, criminals and thugs. Most were raised by single mothers, but being raised by single mothers is not the issue here, is the men they fucked and bred with that caused them to become single mothers in the first place. These men are criminal spawn, children of gangsters, thugs, shitbags in general. They are primitive, violent, aggressive and even built like fucking monsters. They would do amazing in prehistoric times, where you took what you wanted from others, and used violence for everything. That is why women fuck them and allow them to keep passing their primitive genes, a lot of women still have primal urges. These men cant be rehabilitated, they are animals, but like I said before they usually become foot soldiers for the intelligent (human)criminals. So I guess they can be domesticated to some extent but they are better of being studied, we can learn a lot about primitive humans and our ancestors from studying these men. Yes this group is where most of the blacks fall under.

The problem arises with politics, ethics and morals. Liberals all see inmates like the first group, just good boys raised in a shitty poor environment caused by capitalist. Conservatives see them all as animals that need to be shot.

>>130552617
Are all detainees serving life sentences? If no then it better be about rehabilitation since they will be coming back.

>>130559100
That method doesnt work. Its why every prison system switching to a more rehabilitation process, simple deprivation and pure punishment doesnt work.

People who commit crimes are terrified of going to jail, that isnt going to stop people from committing crimes.

every single inmate coming up for parole always says the same shit "man im never coming back" I have personally escorted a few backyo their old cells. Im talking about guys who were doing 23 and 1.
Meaning 1 hour of rec time in a cage, the other 23 locked up with nothing but clothes and a mattress.

These people need tools, training, re-education, social reprogramming. Or they will just end up back in the whole, currently is costs us tax payers 75 dollars a day, per inmate in my state.
The prison i work at houses 850 any given day. Do the math.

>>130559734
*chose not to follow the social or legal norms

>>130559734
fucking simpleton.

its not about the criminal but what is best for society.

You want to spend more money on the criminal because you feel better when he is suffering.

It is a waste of resources for society

>>130559363
>rehab for everyone that's serving <30 years

Ok, I'm a leftist (for the demonstration).

Let's say we agree on your statement to be constitutional.

I change the law to punish all crimes <30.

Such limits: 18 to vote, 21 to drink, 18 to fuck, 30 to be executed, are all bullshit, but unfortunately we have to put some, no other choices.

>>130558987
Fear is your problem.
The bullshit conspiracy theories you people come up with is honestly hilarious, hysterical and frightening at the same time.
Racist opinions based on willful ignorance and fear will lead you to be manipulated by a smarter idiot who will take advantage of that, and use dumb people like you to get their agenda across.
I laugh and and weep simultaneously at your ignorance and stupidity you lovely ameritard

>>130559332
No, i work in Nashville for a state prison actually.

They dont self mutilate because they feel empathy for their crimes, they do it when they dont get their way.
Oh, you wont let me stay out an adittional 30 minutes for rec, ok ill cut my stomach open and get sent to the hosptical.
Oh, you wont give me extra food, ill cut my arms up until i neef stitches,
Etc etc. they are a bunch of manchildren.

>>130559750
>The problem arises with politics, ethics and morals. Liberals all see inmates like the first group, just good boys raised in a shitty poor environment caused by capitalist. Conservatives see them all as animals that need to be shot.

Well, Rousseau vs Voltaire. Eros vs Thanatos...
Such a long history.

>>130552688
>88

mein fuhrer

>>130552617
depends: rehabilitation for delinquants and punishement for murderers/rapists
death for terrorists

>>130559734
Why the fuck would you not break some stupid rule made by others if you see absolutely no harm done with it? Why can´t people fight against stupidity like punishing drug addicts for selfharm?

>>130560123
They sound like they should be in an asylum, not a prison.
You still haven't addressed the obvious black problem in prisons and the fact that niggers are overrepresented in violent crime statistics, despite only being 13% of the US population.
Just because blacks don't act out like the psychotic whites in your prison, don't assume that they are empathetic and misunderstood. People like you are the reason why prisons are so fucked.

>>130559799
>currently is costs us tax payers 75 dollars a day, per inmate in my state

It costs, but it grants you the state/union would never write laws to lock/execute "dissidents".
Chile was an example of such politics, remember copters flights above ocean?

>>130559452
We house everything from minimum restricted to maximum.

What are they in for? Diferent things. From rape to murder to arson. Like any prison if you talk to them they all have some bs story to justify their crime, prisons are filled with "innocent" people.

The state of Tennessee relases back 97% of their inmates into the streets at the moment. Its actually extremely dificult to actully end up in prison, they really do give them chance after chance because it costs so damn much.

We offer groups training, ged classes, leather working, some get jobs doing maintenance around the compound.
Personally i think we could offer more, the biggest restrictor is state budget desu

any sentence should be purged in 10 years or less in a confined cell, bigger sentences should be the death penalty.

For instance a murderer should get the death penalty. Some thief who stabbed others to incapacitate them while he steals from them should pay back what he stole 7 times over (from the bible) and otherwise should also purge a sentence for stabbing which is less than 10 years easily.

Name to me something that is worth more than 10 years yet not the capital punishment. I can't think of anything.

The worst crime is pedophilia, and a pedo should be made eunoch if he raped children and beaten perhaps, otherwise he won't have sexual desires after that if released in society if he got his balls chopped off.

>>130560322
>punishement for murderers/rapists

murderers: easy to check, there is dead bodies, no matter why/how.

rapists: harder. I pray you'd never get in couple with an ultra feminist or become a teacher in a unfavored families neighborhood, ready to accuse you to get their 100K€.

Execution for rapists/child rapists is so mainstream, so gayish...

>>130560550
I didnt really say any of those things, i was simply adressing the initial statement that american prisons are mostly niggers and spics, because they arent. Its all relative to the location of the prison, in my prison its whites, blacks and spics. Ive seen like 1-2 arabs and maybe 5 gooks.

Im not even going to get into the politics of how they ended up in here in the first place, i am not a police officer. I only know what happens in here. And i know in the end. /pol/ loves to blame niggers and spics for everything wrong in this country, so it would be talking into deaf ears

>>130560740
We dont have unions.

>>130552617

Should doesn't matter.

They're more about making profits for private contractors.

>>130560864

I see the Sharia brigade has taken hold in Cuckada already.

>>130559918
>not giving a criminal free HD TV, swimming pools, billiard pools, video game consoles and whatnot
>spend more money

>>130560343
Your argument might work in Saudi Arabia where non-harmful behavior actually is considered a crime, but in civilized societies most laws are more or less reasonable, so if you break the law, you do harm in one way or another.

>drug addiction
>mere selfharm
Are you retarded or just trolling? Druggos are detriment to society, they are bottomless welfare vacuums, they sleep in the streets or canals, smell like shit, spread diseases, they pester or directly attack citizens for money they would spend on drugs, scare children, litter public places, if they have a seizure they have the right to be taken to hospital and cared for which creates a risk of contracting a disease or getting lice by patients, not to mention that it costs taxpayer money, turn places they are in into shitholes, commit crimes, decrease touristic attractiveness of a place if they are numerous etc.

>>130562350
>conservatism is sharia

>>130559734
Crimes come down to morals though and everyone's morals are completely different. You have no say in which morals the government impose as laws because, all in all, you're worthless.
Children don't get held responsible for crimes because they don't even have self awareness until they're two or three.
Should people be punished for saying bad words on the internet? Are all people in prison criminals because the (((law))) says so and goys like you tow the line? Take your "it's black or white" pseudo (((intellectualism))) back to plebbit. Kikes like you aren't welcome unless you're going to stop being a mong.

>>130563179
>Should people be punished for saying bad words on the internet? Are all people in prison criminals because the (((law))) says so and goys like you tow the line?

Read >>130562713
Also
>>130563179
>Take your "it's black or white" pseudo (((intellectualism)))
Fuck off with your liberal relativism. While not all, a lot of things are black and white and what you call pseudo (((intellectualism))) is at least better than degenerate relativism

>>130562713
Yes, more money.
Go look at the cost.
focus on punishment means longer sentences and repeat offenders. That is where the cost comes from.

when you sentence some chick to 28 years for "hate speech" like they do in the US then it becomes costly quite fast

>>130552617

Depends on the crime and the criminal. If they show the propensity to be rehabilitated into a good, productive member of society...then do that. If they arent white....immediate firing squad.

>>130562713
also: even things as simple as try and fail have shown us that those drug addicts most of the time have underlying issues that push them towards drug use. In countries where they are not shunned for being drug users they actually avoid a lot of the issues that many people think are drug related, because they are more related to the persons social standing in relation to the greater society than its related to the drug itself.

many drug users could hold a job just as well as someone who drinks 2-3 beers every day after work but instead they are forced into the street to become homeless and get denied the chance to keep a job

>>130564032
Well, now you argue that rehabilitation is less expensive than punishment on a wrong presumption that these two sentences would differ i terms of how many years in prison a person would spend for a given crime. To argue which (rehabilitation or punishment) would cost more, you need to assume the same period of incarceration, in which case punishment is objectively cheaper.

>>130564700
that makes no sense.

Where is the reason and logic behind your assumption that the time spent should be the same?

The time itself is only relevant when you talk punishment, when you talk about rehabilitation your focus is the improvement of the situation, you would spend way less time than 28 years for example if your goal was to make this chick understand that its wrong to crash a kids party with racist shit, but because they wanted to punish her instead then it makes sense to add more years because more years is more punishment and more punishment should be a better deterrent, if it worked as intended.

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20KB, 320x320px

>>130552617
Punishment. Most of the nogs and spics in jail know what they're doing they need to be punished for it.
Leave the rehabilitation for crazies and retards.

>>130564418
>>130564418
>even things as simple as try and fail have shown us that those drug addicts most of the time have underlying issues that push them towards drug use

It is not the goal of the law or an obligation of legal system to seek excuses for crimes. Crime is crime and no matter what was the reason for you committing the crime, you should be punished. It's not a perfect system, but it's the best that humans ever made. Otherwise you would need to implement the relativist legal system in which some people (for example, conservatists, if you want to be relevant to current geopolitical situation) would get punished for a crime (assault on liberals), while others (liberals) would walk free for the same crime (assault on conservatives).

>>130564418
>In countries where they are not shunned for being drug users they actually avoid a lot of the issues that many people think are drug related, because they are more related to the persons social standing in relation to the greater society than its related to the drug itself.

A person high is a person high. Whether it's socially acceptable or not does not matter if someone high on shrooms or whatever falls in front of your car and you get imprisoned because a junkie could not control their balance. Also, I would need a credible source for the claim that the level of social acceptance to drug use has anything to do with junkies "avoiding a lot of the issues", and a specification on what do you mean by "a lot of the issues".

Also, social acceptance for degeneracy should not be, well, accepted, even if it does bring some minor advantages in one of many aspects of living in society.

>>130564418
>many drug users could hold a job just as well as someone who drinks 2-3 beers every day after work but instead they are forced into the street to become homeless and get denied the chance to keep a job.

>>130565809
your problem is that you think like a primitive asshole.

It is not about the criminal system looking for excuses, its about fixing the root cause and save society money in the long run instead of running after someone their entire life to treat the symptom.

The goal should be to remove the problem from society, not to punish the person responsible.

And if you want to read about the effects of treating drug users like human beings then I'd suggest looking into portugal and their success stories where overdose and people addicted have taken a drastic fall after they changed their politics to be less primitive and stupid.

And by a lot of issues I mean things like crime. A drug user is usually a criminal by simply existing and taking drugs, they live on the run from authority, they can die from withdrawal. If a person in this situation need to steal to get high they will. In a society where you remove this situation from their lives they become the same person as you have in your society today who get their drugs from the doctor on prescription, the only difference is what list the drug is on, I want to move the drugs over to the medicine list

>>130564418
How else could you become not able to handle the job or get fired from the job if not by becoming a fucking junkie who would sleep in the streets and suck dick for a fix? I don't know if I worded it right. I mean that people who smoke a blunt once a week or sniff a line, but control their behavior while high because they don't get blasted out of their minds, at least not in public, are not those people who would be forced to become homeless and get denied the chance to keep a job. How would they, if they controlled the intake and their behavior, that they would not commit a crime and get busted?

Don't argue about moderate users if our conversation was about fucking junkies from the very beginning.

>>130565197
You have country A and country B. Both give the same sentences for a crime, say, 21 years (I believe that's how may years Breivik got), only with a different approach.

A just wants to punish Anders for killing a bunch of people by putting him in a small, cold cell with no entertainment and a lot of time to think about why does he now have to spend 21 years getting bored to death and probably assraped by niggers.

Country B will put Anders for 21 years in a luxurious cell where the only downside is that he cannot go to a local mall wherever he wants, because apart from that, he gets not only everything he needs, but also everything he wants.

Which would be more expensive?

Again, you're trying to argue that one solution is less expensive than the other by applying them on different conditions, which is a fallacy. It's like if you argued that beef is less expensive than chicken, because beef costs 5 dollars a 100 gram and chicken costs 6 dollars a 500 grams.

>>130552617
Depends if theyre a nigger

>>130552617
>reform current prison system
>only two types of sentence : death penalty or forced labor
>forced labor can last one day to lifelong
>in the most dangerous and grueling jobs, such as mining
>prisonners who refuse to work will get the death penalty
>prisonners on the death row might become selected for unethical human expirements and/or organs harvesting

Everyone knows this is the only solution to the current problems we are facing. Jailing people is too expensive, period, We can't afford it anymore. Leftards want to go the other way and just free everyone and stop jailing people altogether.

there should be both types of prisons depending on the crime

Justice knows every man's number. He has committed a terrible sacrilege, and he will pay for it with his life! As will any man here who breaks the law. Brawlers and drunkards will be flogged. Thieves will be strangled! Deserters will be crucified!

>>130567076
I don't give a shit about the root cause of some fucking homeless trash killing my daughter! Jesus fuck and you call me a primitive asshole. Fine, maybe I'm one, but still, if someone kills my daughter, I want them to fucking rot in prison! If someone gets so addicted to drugs that they fail to do any job whatsoever, become homeless, live in the canals, smell like shit, sleep on the pavement whenever they get high, beg for money for a fix and attack or disturb decent civilians, I. DON'T. GIVE. A. SINGLE. FUCK! if they became human trash because they got dumped by a girlfriend! I just want them removed from society where they pose a threat not only for them, but also for the others. Since when should someone's arbitrary motivation for committing a serious crime release them from the responsibility of committing a crime?

Jesus fuck, I admit it, I got mad. I hope you were baiting me, in which case, 10/10 you succeeded. If not, you're fucking retarded.

>>130567148
The reason they commit crimes is mostly to feed their habit + forget their shitty existence. It sounds strange for us that have something to live for but imagine having a shit life without any joy and then at age 14 you find out you can hack your brain by taking drugs and you won't feel like killing yourself because of misery anymore.

They will become entirely dependent and later in life when they know better they are fucked. Think about how much social validation matters to a human being and then keep in mind that these people get none of it. Ofc they will get high again.

There as a TV show in Norway where they brought addicts on a vacation as an experiment to try and see what happened and they forgot to take their heroin because they had so much fun.

Ofc you can't send all addicts on vacation but it does prove that your social situation have a huge impact on a human being. Something we seem to be aware in all other fields.


And you have to stop looking at single cases, look at the total cost. Sure there are different things that cost more in the different models but one model is overall cheaper while the other is only cheaper in select special cases.

>>130567996
So if that person rots in prison for some time, then gets released, kills your other daughter and wife, then gets sentences for life after then that is better than having the person rehabilitated once and never killed again?

>>130552617
After being to prison: full retard punishment. Most people who are in prison deserve to be there. And trying to "rehabilitate" them is an exercise in futility.

>>130567996
for me its mostly a question about economics and efficiency.

Punishment is the wrong focus.

Keep in mind that just because your focus and intent is not to punish people you can still put people away if they can't be helped.

Its just that to spend money on someone who could be a productive member of society is almost always a loss, and unless its for safety I don't agree with that loss.

Fuck your feelings, sorry but not sorry.

>>130568837
rehabilitation does not work on most convicts. they are simply too low iq to become a functioning member of society. lock them up and never let them out again.

the prisoners for whom rehabilitation would work don't need it because they are most likely in for nonviolent victimless crimes.

>>130568837
Dead people can't re-offend.

>>130569257
Or they are high intelligence people from bad homes.

As I mentioned in one of my first posts, you have to take into consideration things like intellect etc

>>130569414
innocent people killed by mistake can't be redeemed

>>130569518
By this logic, nobody should be sent to jail because some might be innocent.

>>130569867
no.

The difference is that you can get released and get compensated for your time, your family won't get punished, kids get to see their dad even if they have to visit, hope to those who know they are innocent etc

the difference is huge.

Maybe you don't have any ambitions about family and have not considered the collateral damage but killing someone have broader consequences too.

>>130570373
Yea, because going to prison for years means your wife will faithfully stay by your side and your anus won't get rekt. Good luck trying to find a job since you've been out of the job market for so long you have a huge gap in your CV. You've also not considered that less crime would be committed if the punishment were death. But, yea, Jamal can rape and kill and in the end he gets to chill in prison, be well fed and hang out with his boys fucking other inmates in the ass.

>>130552617
A 20 year study conducted in the UK concluded that rehabilitation 'did not work'. Only fear of punishment, curtailment of liberty, pain to themselves' prevented people from offending, said researchers. They were disappointed in their results. Rehabilitation had been touted as a 'cure'. Large amounts of money and resources had been poured into 'rehabilitation'. Psychologists had built careers in 'rehabilitation'. Stats had been falsified. Only if an offender believes his actions will be to his own detriment will he curb his propensity to reoffend, was the conclusion of the study. All claims that the offender had been rehabilitated were wishful thinking.
Despite the dire warnings, prisons continued running rehabilitation programmes and they continue today with newer generations of psychologists making a living out of a demonstrably failed concept: rehabilitation.
Self interest, self preservation, are what cause people to abort their criminal lusts, not rehabilitation

>>130571199
>You've also not considered that less crime would be committed if the punishment were death

I have considered this but I have not found any evidence to support this idea. Look at shit holes with death penalty, the only thing you achieve is that criminals take it even further to avoid getting caught. If you risk getting killed for robbery you don't care if the person you rob will die because you get the same punishment anyway, your threshold for escalating the violence have been lowered.

And the other problems you talk about are ofc real but nothing compared to being killed, and they affect you more than they affect your innocent family so it does seem a lot more just and right even if your wife finds someone else

>>130571359
link the study then, the method etc matters a lot

>>130568679
So the society should pay with their hard-earned money to help you get out of your misery? Fuck off. Not even mentioning the fact that the happiness you get from drugs is artificial and harmful to your brain in long term (if you're male, which I assume, you should find a job and work on achieving something, because men are biologically programmed to be happy when working hard and achieving something), it is not my concern that you feel bad. Man the fuck up and do something to make your life better. Why would I care to do your fucking job? I don't even know you, and I don't care about you. What I care about is that you do not assault, or worse, kill someone because you took some psychedelic drugs and though that a passerby was a monster from hell.

>There as a TV show in Norway where they brought addicts on a vacation as an experiment to try and see what happened and they forgot to take their heroin because they had so much fun.

So the solution to them being fucking losers is tax funded vacations? Fuck off commie.

>Ofc you can't send all addicts on vacation but it does prove that your social situation have a huge impact on a human being. Something we seem to be aware in all other fields.

Non-drug-related entertainment is not the only replacement for drugs. Hard work is another. And if you choose entertainment, then fund it yourself.

>>130568837
There is no guarantee that rehabilitation will make someone a decent person, therefore I don't want to fund a criminal entertainment and luxuries with my hard-earned money just because it *might* help, if there's a cheaper alternative that holds the same chance of achieving that. Besides, if someone kills my daughter, it is morally wrong to give them luxuries that my daughter will not have the chance to enjoy ever again.

Let me tell this again: YOU. JUST. HAVE. NO. RIGHT. WHATSOEVER. UNDER. ANY. CIRCUMSTANCES. AND. FOR. ANY. ARBITRARY. REASON. YOU. MIGHT. MAKE. UP. TO. KILL. SOMEONE. OUT. OF. SELF. FUCKING. DEFENCE. If you do that, you should be punished. Period.

>>130553527
So if I commit crimes, I just get to LARP as a swashbuckling miscreant. Count me in.

>>130552617
Execute the worst offenders, rehabilitate the petty criminals; get them some skills which will actually benefit themselves and their communities, as well as the economy.
If repeat offender, execute.

>>130552617
Rehab, but that only works in a homogeneous near crime free society. If you import savages those mild punishments is paradise for them.

>>130569178
>>130569178
>Its just that to spend money on someone who could be a productive member of society is almost always a loss, and unless its for safety I don't agree with that loss.

I feel the same! That's why I'm an advocate of capital punishment.

What I don't understand is why do you advocate spending more money (rehabilitation is more expensive than punishment over the same period of time), if you're so against spending money on someone. I mean, where is the logic?

>>130571773
>I have considered this but I have not found any evidence to support this idea.

Would you be willing to rob a person if you'd be killed? You're stealing to better your standard of living. Criminals balance the risk in their heads like a business owner: "Is $50 dollars in my pocket worth the risk of dying?"

This is the same with all people. What stops us from committing crime is fear of punishment. Having a home and being fed for a few years and then being let loose is no punishment. I suppose you don't know that there are people who offend as soon as they're let out because jails guarantee them a life?

Prisons have a way of running itself. You just wall off an area, throw people inside and lock the door. Only need guards to watch the perimeter. It is very cheap.

>>130571773
Why do you give an example of death punishment for robbery? No civilised country does that. Death punishment is a great solution *in special cases such as murder, kindapping or child rape*, not in case of some petty crime like theft or, I don't know, making a graffiti. No one ever suggested that every crime should be punished by death. Except muslims and some other irrelevant fucktards.

>>130573701
I think he's talking about armed robbery.

>>130574900
Still, I'm not aware of any civilized country punishing an armed robbery with death unless the robber killed someone, and even then death punishment is pretty rare.

>>130575317
Pointing a gun at someone shows intent to kill.

>>130552688
You're alright sven

>>130572027
No, society should invest the money instead of spending it is what I am suggesting.

You are also repeating what I have said earlier, why do you think that is needed? Yeah, I know its fake, that is why I wrote it down before.

I don't feel bad, I do have a life.

Are you so simple you can't even wrap your head around the fact someone can see reason and support something because I see it is better even if it does not affect me?

I live in a nice area, I don't get robbed, but I still want police to patrol shady areas of the country, even if it does not impact me


also, you look really petty when you try to attack my stances by choosing to focus on things I specifically said I only wrote to use as an example

>it does prove that your social situation have a huge impact on a human being

that was the only point to the whole situation regarding the vacation, obviously the addiction can be negated and if you truly want society to be prosperous you would want to look into this so you can create a more productive society

>>130572085
I don't care about your feelings, I care about the final line on the budget. The total cost.

And rehabilitation wins there every time.

The heavy focus on punishment and prison time is due to the fact people make money on having prisoners in their prisons, simple as that.

And you being simple minded and feeling controlled wants to have revenge more than you want to have a good society

and you should be allowed to kill in self defense if there was no other way out or if the death was caused by accident (pushing the rapist made him hit his head and he dies, not the victims fault IMO)

>>130575979
And is punishable by imprisonment in most cases.

>>130572462
Because you are a moron if you think that it takes as long to rehabilitate someone as it does to punish someone under a system designed to drain money from the government and put it in the pockets of prison owners.

If rehabilitating them involved more money then they would push for rehabilitation instead of prison

>>130577207
>>130577207

>I don't care about your feelings, I care about the final line on the budget. The total cost.

Can you tell me which is cheaper then? Execution or Rehabilitation. Be honest.

>>130573701
Because you are too simple to understand that the same type of thinking happens in all situations so I had to put it out on a limb like that for you to understand.

Fear of death increase the persons chance or escalating violence. Fear of long prison sentences can do the same thing too

>>130577519
Rehabilitation doesn't work. Most offenders end up back in prison. Damaging society and placing a greater strain on the economy.

>>130577519
>Because you are a moron if you think that it takes as long to rehabilitate someone as it does to punish someone under a system designed to drain money from the government and put it in the pockets of prison owners.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no objective standard which would allow to measure specifically how much time is necessary for either rehabilitation or punishment and any amount of time specified by the law for either is more or less arbitrary and based on generally socially accepted idea of how evil or harmful a crime is and what a proper punishment for that crime would be, so if anyone here is a moron, it's you.

>>130577519
>If rehabilitating them involved more money then they would push for rehabilitation instead of prison

Depends whether "they" (people with legislative power) are (((them))) or people caring about the society or someone else.

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I non-ironically believe that we should bring back exile as I don't see the downside to it. Jail as we know it should be kept for white collar and minor crime like stealing, assault; but close all private prisons. Murder and rape tier shit should be exiled to their own island. That way all the undesirables can rape and murder each other and solve the issue for us. Cheaper, more efficient and way more of a deterrent. If you join a gang in prison and are in there for life you just keep going back till death row. But under my system you do it and get sent on a tropical vacation away from decent people.

>>130577997
>Fear of death increase the persons chance or escalating violence. Fear of long prison sentences can do the same thing too

How can one man be so disconnected with reality.

>>130577825
Rehabilitation will in most cases win because you turn the person into a asset that generates wealth for your nation instead of removing the asset.

>>130578108
only in shit countries where prison is privatized and efforts only superficial etc

I know rehabilitated people, all they needed was a chance to get a job once they wanted to take life seriously, luckily they got training in prison instead of nothing so it worked out.

The issue for one of them was actually that he had to get sentenced for enough things to reach the level for rehabilitation to come into the equation, if you just do a minor thing you won't be considered a problem that needs rehabilitation

so my friend actually had to keep on being a fucking problem in society until he stole several cars while high and got stopped after a police chase and had endangered everyone near him. Then he got offered rehabilitation and now he is a carpenter that pays tax and he have already paid all his fines and damages caused.

>>130552617
Rehab for first time offenders. Execution for repeat offenders.

>>130553616
Yes I agree, we use the term guilt but guilt cannot be judged, we can attempt to judge the facts and hope to make the best decision simply based on keeping innocent people safe.
I'd almost go as far as to say no prison for non violent offences other than criminal negligence

>>130577997
False. Fear of death would in fact increase the persons chance of escalating violence if every crime was punishable by death, because then there would be no place for profit/loss account and a person would think "well, I better kill that guy if I already beaten him up, because then there is a slight chance they won't find me". But if death penalty was applicable only in case of more serious crimes, such as murder, child rape or kidnapping, then the fear of death would actually make someone consider not escalating violence, as the escalation of violence, not just the fact of commiting any crime, would merit death penalty.

I don't expect you to understand this, but it's all a matter of profit and loss account.

>>130578729
>people with nothing to lose don't act like people who have nothing to lose

If anyone lacks a understanding of reality here its you.

>>130579192
You are naive if you think all criminals just do one crime each that they stick to.

Imagine being the criminal that already kidnapped someone and then police show up to free the victim, if he now faces death the chances of him giving up and handing over the victim are small.

He would threaten to kill his victim if needed, shoot at cops etc

When cops in Norway temporarily armed themselves due to terror threat the first thing that happened, the same night they equipped the guns to their hip some well known not mentally stable person fired his shotgun at our police because he felt threatened. Not the exact same situation but it does show how little it can take to make unstable people even more dangerous and how easy it is to escalate the violence

>>130578853
Rehabilitation will in most cases win because you turn the person into a asset that generates wealth for your nation instead of removing the asset.

You don't need that asset. You're living in the modern age where human labour is a cheap commodity. Machines or any other well adjusted people could benefit from the money you spent trying to fix a broken person. You have no idea how the economy functions.

>only in shit countries where prison is privatized and efforts only superficial etc

I know rehabilitated people, all they needed was a chance to get a job once they wanted to take life seriously, luckily they got training in prison instead of nothing so it worked out.

What if I told you this happens in countries without privatized prisons? Because it does. Your little anecdote proves only how sheltered you are from reality.

>>130577207
Still waiting for that source supporting your retarded claim that punishment is more expensive (hell, even just as expensive) than rehabilitation over the same period of incarceration.

Again, >>130567148
if 100 grams of beef costs 5 dollars and 500 grams of chicken costs 6 dollars, which is cheaper, chicken or beef?

>>130579220
Holy shit, you're retarded. You're now arguing my point.

They have nothing to lose if they murder and they're caught. Everything to lose if they do and they're caught.

>>130579919
He can't post source because it's all in his head.

>>130579850
>You are naive if you think all criminals just do one crime each that they stick to.

You're right. Therefore there is no point in rehabilitation.

>Imagine being the criminal that already kidnapped someone and then police show up to free the victim, if he now faces death the chances of him giving up and handing over the victim are small.

If kidnapping was punishable by death, I would be less likely to kidnap.

>He would threaten to kill his victim if needed, shoot at cops etc

And he would get killed.

>When cops in Norway temporarily armed themselves due to terror threat the first thing that happened, the same night they equipped the guns to their hip some well known not mentally stable...
>not mentally stable

If someone is a fucking psycho, they would commit a crime regardless of punishment. Therefore there is no point in lowering punishment.

However, most criminals are more or less mentally stable. For example, robbers commit robbery mostly for economic (or social in case of niggers) reasons, and when there is no profit in killing someone during robbery, but there is a loss (death penalty), then they will most likely not fucking kill a person. They'd rather go to prison for a couple years rather than be put to sleep.

In other words, psychos will kill because they're psychos and no rehabilitation is going to change that, therefore there is no point in rehabilitation. Just put 'em down and be over with it.
Mentally stable people commiting a crime for whatever reason, be it social, economic or whatever, are less likely to escalate violence if the escalation of violence leads to disproportionately harsher punishment. Therefore a capital punishment for certain crimes is a good way of preventing people from escalating violence, because being mentally stable, they will do the fucking math.

>>130552617
Rehabilitation for economic crimes (theft, grug dealing, ets) and maybe small violence (getting in a bar fight, stuff like that). Maybe some programs to teach a trade and put them back in the workforce.
Punishment for violent crimes (murder, rape, torture).
Death penalty in cases of very violent crimes where guilt can be proven beyond shadow of a doubt (those people don't need to be punished they need to be permanently removed from society). There is no need to spend more taxpayer money on them.

>>130552617
Prisons exist for 3 reasons First is to contain and isolate people who are a threat to the peace and safety of the populace. Second is to punish them for their transgressions as a deterrent to others who might commit the same crimes, Third is to provide some rehabilitation to those who have the inclination and capacity for change.

>>130583395
210pbp

>>130553616
So... bring back penal colonies?
>>130553728
Arbeit... does macht frei!? Who would have guest...
>>130553924
Depends. Someone who steals can learn a trade while there. A rapist... bullet to the head.
>>130554556
The victims usually want retribution. It is up to the state/society to impose a a balance. Otherwise if the sentance is too light people might start looking for vigilante justice.
Now it also depends on the crime, ofcourse. A thief can and should be rehabilitated, a serial child molester not so much.
>>130554649
No it isn't. An execution of an innocent can disperse all the trust in system.
>>130555212
Obviously not (for the first question). And yes for the second. Yet murder is murder and it must be punished.
>>130556297
The problem is that they might not be guilty.
>>130556340
You don't want to break them either (in case of lesser crimes). You should look that they don't just become a welfare dependent wreck after they exit.
>>130557748
This.
>>130558459
Ah, a society without a unified morality does wonders doesn't it?
>>130558927
But once the covenant is broken so to speak, one can't pretend it is intact.
>>130558970
Agreed. Part of prison should be inducing discipline and self control into prisoners.
>>130559100
And if they were kept there forever there might not be a problem.

>>130561534
>/pol/ loves to blame niggers and spics for everything wrong in this country
Wrong, we blame the jews. Are you even trying?

>>130552617
>Should prisons be more about punishment or more about rehabilitation?
In America they're only about profits. that why we have more incarcerated per capita than anywhere else in the world.

Either that or being an American means you're statistically more likely to be a dangerous criminal.

>>130552617

the japanese do it perfectly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBd5WhTi_CI