Communism is superior to capitaism in any way

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We need a vanguard party

>>130157519
>muh equality
The elite rule communist society even more than they rule capitalist society. There will always be a wealthy elite, but in communism they are the only ones with wealth at all.

>>130157848
That's what you think, but in the USSR everyone was indeed equal.
That what you think is simply western capitalist propaganda.

>>130157848

Fallacious statement right there, we will not tolerate corruption,maybe you think everyone is corrupted like you are?

>>130157519
>LARPS as Commie
>Worships literal Corporotocracy that is the EU

Riiiiiiight OP, we TOTALLY believe you

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>>130157519
why not defend anarcho-primitivism while you're at it
all commies deserve to be thrown from an helicopter
sage

>>130157519
>reddit tier b8
sage

Greetings my comrades

>>130158080
Right you little commie faggot

Explain to me why every system that has operated on your mentally retarded and archaic ideology reeks corruption and totalitarianism and fails?

>>130157519
>There was absolutely no unemployment in the whole of the USSR

Because being unemployed was illegal

>>130158495
Greetings

>>130158495
Greetings Commie faggot, how is your brain damaged ideology doing?

>>130158548
Western propaganda, you idiot!

>>130158597
It worked though!

>>130158080
Communist governments are some of the most corrupt pieces of trash ever, and you have the audacity to claim that you "don't tolerate corruption"?

>>130158335
How is is bait in any way?

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>>130157739

>>130158710
WESTERN PROPAGANDA

>not an argument
>The EU is a fascist system that was Hitler's dream
>Cucked

>>130158745
Western capitalist governments are way more corrupt, they just hide everything they do with their money

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sigh

>>130157519
>There was absolutely no unemployment in the whole of the USSR
can't be unemployed if you're dead

>>130158710
no it didn't
holy shit how are people even thinking of coming up with such retarded baits
gas commies
sage the fucking thread

>>130158904
LARP LARP LARP

>keep repeating commie talking points

>>130158710
>western propaganda
Dismissing every major flaw in your ideology as "western propaganda" is just another indicator of your cognitive dissonance.

>>130158867
The EU is a great globalist and communist system build to help small nations

>>130158991
You're just trying to bait me

>>130158831
Can't tell if this was supposed to insult us or not, it's still funny regardless. It has the potential of being a dank commie meme.

>>130159024
This is one of the main flaws with communism. The entire system is built so that the small and weak can leech off of the strong.

>>130159194
oh wait republican as in US Republican party, im a dumbass

>>130157519
Not an argument.

>>130159199
Because every human is equal

>>130157519
>looks at the flag
>not surprised

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>>130158991
>cognitive dissonance

>>130159313
>Because every human is equal
Not even close.

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Okay, anti-communists of /pol/. Tell me what you understand the following terms to mean.

Capitalism:
Socialism:
Communism:
Human nature:

>>130159313
If every human is truly equal like you say, then why are some people smarter or stronger than others? Why do some have more capacity for manual labor while others are built for more mentally-demanding jobs?

>>130159390
>retarded religious anti-communist faggot
>looks at flag
huh

you were given the gift of communism and refused it. the only reason you are so successful now is because the soviets shot down all the fascists in your country in the 50s

>>130159469
It means that his argument causes conflict in your perceptions on certain subjects, and thus you dismiss it without addressing it.

It's called having your head up your ass.

>>130159575
no
die
sage thread

>>130159469
Brushing off any criticism of your ideology as "Western propaganda" is exactly what cognitive dissonance is. You refuse to accept criticism and go so far as to completely ignore it by providing an excuse such as "Western propaganda".

Communism completely BTFOs capitalism on K:D ratio

>>130159884
When you take into account deaths of innocent civilians...

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>>130159954
You're right capitalism has got us beat there.

>>130159884
Much like its supporters; communism doesn't work.
>It was never tried before.
>USSR.
>That wasn't lee communism(TM)

Your kind just doesn't like working, or learning.
Pity.

>>130159832
>Brushing off any criticism of your ideology as "Western propaganda" is exactly what cognitive dissonance is.

Lol, no. That anon you were talking to didn't contradict himself. And it is western propaganda because western propaganda wants to convince you that because some shitty regimes are failing and/or corrupt, we shouldn't take examples from it. Therefore, we shouldn't be communists or live in a communist society.

What ever happened to resetting the system over and over again? If something fails, you can always try it again. It isn't the system itself to blame.

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Look at this nerd lmao

>>130160043
Why don't commies go and prevent those deaths?

>>130160043
>Blames African tier retardation on just the social economics, and not on the people it self.

>>130160043
It's always so funny how you can be able to flip strawmans :^)

>>130160068
I like how your reply had absolutely nothing to do with his post.

>>130159675
>be commie
>call someone faggot
>go back giggling to your trans grandma's basement to plan your gayvolution
We had communism for about 50yrs. Now Poland is called mexico of Europe.

>>130158080
>we will not tolerate corruption
There are still communist countries about. Why not move to Venezuela, Cuba, or North Korea?

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>>130158080
>"..we will not tolerate corruption..."
Dear God, you guys are insane. Your model of production and ethics is heavily flawed. The key hyphotesis is false. We are not equal and we are never gonna be equal. The human race organise themselves in hierarchical structures and fight for better places in the pyramid. We need hierarchy as a evolutionary component of society. International Socialism failed and it will fail again if tried. Your system went through the mecanism of selection and was obliterated. National Socialism is the only socialism that can work today. We are at the age of steel and transistors.

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>>130160158
WE

Under Communism/Socialism, everyone would be treated equally. So there would be no need for BLM or similar groups as they would have nothing to campaign for.

>>130160082
Yet socialism and communism always fails.

>>130160082
>you can always try the system again, it's not like the system itself is flawed
I'm pretty sure you are LARPing now.

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>>130157519
leftypol out of the woodworks it seems

>>130157519
Why would I want equality when I'm better than someone else?

>>130159884
Communism is only superior for genocidal brutality.

>>130160210
>Not smart enough to can into comprehensive reading.
Thanks for the confirmation.
>I like how your reply had absolutely nothing to do with his post.
You like communism, you think it's better than capitalism, yet communism never works out; thus it's the inferior social economic system.

Glad to have that cleared up for you.

>>130160426
>>130160439
Kekistan cancer is not permitted

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>>130160183
We're trying. We're trying hard.

Building worldwide communism to prevent those deaths is what we do erry day.

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>>130158080
You're deluded, an authoritarian oppressive government is always corrupt and always tyrannical, even the communist ones.


http://nypost.com/2015/05/10/inside-fidel-castros-luxurious-life-on-his-secret-island-getaway/

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>>130157519
War against the communist menace is glorious in the eyes of God

>>130160447
You have some impressive skill at making autistic rants that never even relate to the posts they reply to.

>>130157739
you misspelled totalitarian indoctrination body serving a narrow clique of (((liberators))) and working in unison towards an inhumanely authoritarian regime while being utterly corrupt and living by the old adage: quid licet Iovi non licet bovi

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>>130160426
>Why would I want equality when I'm better than someone else?

>>130160614
You're trying to make other people do it instead of doing something yourself?

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>>130160043
How many capitalist states have killed off 25% of their population?

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>b-but not real communism
>e-equality for all
>c-communists don't kill people
The mental retardation of these people is hilarious. Pic related is what we should be doing to communists
>>130160716
beat me to it so I will post something different
>>130160719
>commie calling anyone else autistic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04wyGK6k6HE

>>130160719
And you have no talent at all.
Especially reading comprehension or critical thinking seems to be lacking with you.

Good luck with that desu.

>>130160538
>implying communism isn't the worst cancer every created in human history.

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>There was absolutely no unemployment in the whole of the USSR

Pretty easy to keep down unemployment when Article 58 makes literally everything a potential crime and excess labor supply can be shipped off to forced labor camps.

>>130159575
You are an imbecile. Capitalism is a model of production based on freedom of association and mercantile ethics. There are dozens of socialist movements, all with their own peculiarities dipshit! Socialism is the violation of freedom in persuit of equality and equity. Communism is also a diffuse movement. Marxist communism is total freedom while in equity( utopian pile of shit). The human nature debate is complex and generally based on arguments of autority.

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>>130157519
Tankies need to be euthanized

>>130160383
NO U: the post.

>>130160416

Not LARPing. Ask any other communist, and they'll tell you the same thing.

>>130160787
No I'm trying to build communism.
>>130160834
Was Pol Pot backed by the CIA? Oh yes.
>>130160868
>Jordan Peterson calling anyone autistic
That nigga has it bad.

simple question are you entitle to the product of a noncombatant's labor in the absence of their consent? YES OR NO?

>>130160944
I see, so you don't know.

Also gotta lel at this bit
>Marxist communism
>utopian

>>130161094
If the system itself isn't flawed, then why do capitalist governments have such a higher rate of success compared to communist ones. Or is this just another """""coincidence"""" where communist governments failed miserably while capitalist ones succeeded?

>>130161094
>Ask any other communist, and they'll tell you the same thing.
>I'm indoctrinated just like all of my comrades; we all say the same thing, just as we were told.
No shit, and Ftfy.

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>>130161130
>no rebuttal for Dr. Peterson
Not that modern day communists are capable of rational/critical thinking. It's almost as if it needs to be implemented so that millions of you die again for you to wake up, but that probably wouldn't sway someone with such deeply seated mental issues.

>>130161189
What do noncombatants have to do with it?

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>>130159575
-Means to create wealth without an oppressive state
-Reliance and slavery to an oppressive state
-Full state control and oppression over the individual
-Something that causes communism to fail

z

>>130157519
>Communism is superior to capitaism in any way
Except basic literacy apparently.

>>130161263
It's just Western propoganda! ALL communist countries were HEAVENLY until the subversive west ruined them.

>>130161322
Noncombatants are the majority of a modern country's population dipshit.

>>130161300
I didn't watch the video. I'm just saying, if anyone has got autism it is him.

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>>130161130
Doesn't mean Pol's policies weren't the purest form of socialism in action

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>>130160868
Nice strawman. Pic related, how do you like my strawman?

>b-but not real communism

Yeah, because there's literally no country in existence that has a communist government. China, Cuba, Laos and Vietnam are all socialist. Try again.

>>130161423
Yeah but I still don't understand how it's pertinent to the question.

Would he have expected a different answer if it was about a soldiers labour?

>>130161479
Pol Pot was ANPRIM.

>>130161322
that wasn't the question, by "noncombatants" I mean people who haven't violated the non aggression principle

>>130161633
I see. In that case no but can you elaborate on what you would consider "consent"?

>>130161521
>there's literally no country in existence that has a communist government.
Because it doesn't work.
Seems logical enough.

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HELLO

>>130161727
by consent, I mean the willingness to give you what they've made

>>130161291
Well, what else do you want me to tell you? If I say something, it'll always be: well if A, B, C is wrong, then B is correct.

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>>130161727
>He doesn't understand the word consent.
WEW

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ALL ACCORDING TO PLAN

>>130161521
>not my special brand of communism
Yeah and the earth is flat because every picture taken from space has been faked
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's certainly not a horse

>>130161750
Okay, so would you consider socialism as a form of communism?

You know for all these commie threads, I haven't seen literally 1 logical well-thought-out response to the flood of counterarguments.

I've seen people say "read a book", that's about it.

These threads are basically communists getting relentlessly ROFLstomped into the ground and then autistically screeching about some vague a-historical nonsense

>>130161860
Does that unconditionally apply though? Are there not instance where consent can be manufactured to a point where it may be considered exploitation?

For instance: If someone is dying of thirst in the desert and you roll by with a truck full of water and let them have some if they become your slave. Can we consider that meaningful consent and a binding contract?

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>>130161954
>socialism and communism is the same thing guise!!!!

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If I ever become so poor I can't feed myself, I will find commie politicians and kill a bunch of them, then go to jail where I will not starve.

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.

>>130161977
Both are planned economies that are predicated on the idea that the means of production (land, labor, goods) are owned by society as a whole and not individuals.

>>130161868
Do some research on critical thinking, and logical arguing(It helps processing the data, and thus it helps you critically think), and re-evaluate your own views on life, and you will gain more perspective on it, and future conversations.

>>130161954
He's right though. In terms of the economic system there isn't and never has been a communist system put into practice.

There have been lots of socialist systems led by communist parties with the long term goal of implementing communism.

>>130160780
You didn't answer the question

>>130162047
yeah it's consent technically but contracts are upheld by courts, and no court in a first world country would ever uphold such a one sided contract.

>>130162214
Because planned economies inevitably collapse before they can reach (((true ideal communism))) because they are inefficient and are always out-competed by capitalist economies. Literally every "socialist" (communist) system has killed millions due to gross misallocation of resources and corruption

>>130162212
...I, uh... I didn't mean to actually answer my question... It was a figure of speech...

>>130161521
Communism is a weak system. If you are truly free ( a nessecity of marxsit communism), you would have rights to the product of your labour. If you have rights to the product of your labour you can transform it from private to common property and do the reverse at any time. There is no government to guarantee any of the above. The means of production are intelectual and pratical products of abstract and objective human labour ( Marxist definition). If you are free, you have the right to transform the means of production that you have today in private property, therefore, your system is incoherent and fragile. The social coesion would be enough? I don't think so commie

>>130162318
Exactly.

So how can we consider consenting to sell your labour to someone else in exchange for a wage when a small group of people control virtually all of the means of creating wealth on the planet an acceptable contract? Is this not much the same kind of exploitation in principle - particularly in countries without any welfare systems where the only alternative is to starve.

This is the thing about capitalism: it is extremely one sided in favour of the bourgeoisie.

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>>130157519
I'm not technically a communist but I respect you guys a hell of a lot more than the libertarian scum who inhabit this board and I love the fact that your very presence triggers them so much.

>>130162039
I like when you point out how absurd the Labor "Theory" of Value is and they just tell you to read Marx's books because even they can't comprehend it

>>130157519
Yeah NK is doing pretty good, so is Brazil, Venezuala. Nobody died in Russia... nobody was killed during the cultural revolution. Yeah you might be right!

>>130160331
i mean can you name one communist country that isnt a shit hole?

Lmao

Capitalism affords choice, whereas Communism simply does not.

Capitalism gives the individual an incentive to become a better man, whereas Communism doesn't care if you do or not.

Communism is simply garbage, and there's a reason it has never worked.

>muh capitalism has never worked
yeah pull the other one it's got bells on

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>>130162161
So they share a few similarities, and?

You didn't answer my question.

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How do communists answer this?

Not even memeing, I genuinely want a response

>>130161566
Which is still communism.

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Why did my grandfather live through this?

>>130162380
I'm going to say a few things about this post. Most prominently of all in the first point you acknowledge that there has never been a communist system then in the very next point attribute millions of deaths to the communist system.

Additionally most historical socialist states didn't kill millions of people. And how "inevitable" the demise of these states was is very debateable.

>>130160265
>We are not equal and we are never gonna be equal.

We know... can you read?: "From each according to their ability. To each according to their need".

>>130162712
Functionally they are the same. There is no fundamental difference between socialism and communism.

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>>130162726
>AnPrim is communism

>>130162546
you make a good argument against material capital
but I still don't think that we should give so much power to the state, or that we can abandon competition without losing quality.

>>130162745
Any answer?

>>130162616
None, because every "communist" country is technically socialist :^)

Also, define "shithole". China, Cuba, Vietnam, etc, are all developing countries. What is your definition of a shithole? Because they're poor and agricultural, or something else.

>>130161977
Socialism makes tools of the individuals, thus socialism and communism are barely different from one another to me.

I believe the government should help the people help them improve the country's society, by letting the people choose what work they want to do, and with whom they would like to work with, with a bit of steering from the government, but not to the extent that it puts a choke-hold on the people at any point.
Opposed to forcing people to follow the state's desires, and thus that all choices for production and economic pursuits are then executed solely by the state; which sounds extremely sterile to me in terms of growth potential.

your a fucking retard

>>130162820
Well socialism is mainly about worker control of the MoP. It can have a state, it can have money, what makes it socialist is that the workers control their labour.

Communism is stateless, classless and moneyless. It is only attainable when automation is so widely used and so advanced that it can do virtually everything and have that be managed by the community at large.

>>130162566

This picture needs more weed.

>>130162897
no he doesn't he's a fucking idiot

ideally you can place regulations against that shit

no it's not "ancap" but it's doable

>>130162745
>>130162981
Justify your Jew ideology, commies.

>>130157519
Gobbunizm :DDDD
sage

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>>130157519
Better off going full NazBol senpai

>>130162777
I was being facetious. Cambodia, Venezuela, the USSR, every Russian satellite state; all were communist and all were defeated economically by their neighbors with unplanned free economies.
Seriously, planned economies don't allow both labor and goods prices to remain at their equilibrium prices and are by nature economically inefficient. The market stabilizes itself and attempts to set prices and dictate production causes either shortages or surpluses which are a sign of economic distress or unbalance

>>130162745
the Holodmor didn't happen, but also the kulaks caused it, and it was an accident, and Stalin did it on purpose to stop a Ukrainian counter-revolution
t. /leftypol/ and reddit

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>>130162820
Oh boy, why did I even ask you this?

This is the same answer that I always get from anti-commies. You all tell accuse us of saying that communism has never been tried (which is true, look it up), but when the tables are turned, you tell us that socialism and communism is fundamentally the same thing.

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>>130157519
>there was no unemployment in the USSR
>source:my ass
If it was so great then why did all your satellites break away the very instant they could? You can't claim superiority when that many people want to get away. Even these nu-commie millenials, with all their spare wealth, would rather get the newest iPhone than go to a communist country.
Your ideology is shit.

>>130163214
Yes, and it wasn't real gommunism.

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given pic related I wonder why burgerbros arent the one spreading communism around the world instead of (((democracy)))

>>130163069
an-cap is the only cap, anything else is just aesthetically pleasing bureaucracy

>>130162897
I don't think we should necessarily give power to the state. Rather I think in the near future we should be thinking about making the economy and the government much more democratic with things like co-operates and direct democracy so that power can be put directly in the hands of the people rather than giving the people the power to choose their own leaders.

Likewise I think there are some good arguments against markets being the most meritocratic way of doing things but I don't think technology is advanced enough to allow for CyberSyn like systems nor do I think it is possible for the economy to practically be planned by humans. In the near future I think market socialism is what we could do with.

>>130163059
>Automation is widespread and can do anything
Then why are we even having this discussion if the situation you're putting forward is some theoretical time point in the future?
By that definition communism categorically cannot exist in the world as it exists today and we're pissing at each other over science fiction

>>130163123
Notice how none of the commie LARPers here can actually give an answer.

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STOP REPLYING TO THESE THREADS YA STUPID FUCKS

>>130163347
rotate 90 degrees clockwise for political compass

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>>130157519
All commies deserve death.

>>130163242
Then what is the difference between communism as you see it and the flag of communism that modern and past states have operated under?

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>>130157519
You make fake promises to give means of productions, gold, lands and palaces from rich people to poor
People fight for you
You trick them and take everything, no private property. all belongs to you, i mean state.
Now goys are your cattle

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>>130162844
>no property

>>130162056
>communism is different from slave empires guys XD

>>130163323

Unemployment in USSR was 0%.

>>130163188
I agree, centrally planned undemocratic economies aren't a good idea.

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>>130163448

The reactionary islander is scared.

>>130162056
Slavery to the state is still slavery.

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>>130163574
It was heaven.

>>130163390
Like no communist ever has actually been trying to jump straight to communism - we've always acknowledged that socialism is where we're trying to get.

There's a good reason the party was called The Communist Party of the Soviet Union whilst the state was called the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

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>>130163574
So why were so many millions starving to death? What a system

Meanwhile in America, the biggest problem with the poor is obesity

>>130163574
>self reported

>>130163384
democracy is just two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. if you want justice for the majority and minority, you're going to have to create a set of unchanging principles to which your government adheres

>>130157519
SAGED, KILL YOURSELF YOU FUCKING COMMIE.

>>130162159
Needs more .jpg.

>>130162056
>Nobody owns anything, thus everybody owns everything, but nobody owns anything thus whom determines who gets what?
And that is why communism doesn't work, because it always turns back on what a person has done to own something, and this needs to be determined by somebody, and when people disagree; they fight for what the believe to be theirs.
And in the end it balances out by needing to work for what you (want to) own.
Opposed to some socialists piling everything unto a pile, and redistributing it to all of the people "equally(Save for all of the owned goods needed to keep the economy afloat, because people can only work in labour-camps now)".

This is why nobody likes socialism/communism.

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>>130163574
unemployment in the feudal estate is 0

>>130157519
Superior at murdering its own citizens.
100 million and counting
>McCarthy did nothing wrong

>>130163700
>slavery to the state

Well, you're a libertarian, so I can see why you view it as such.

>>130162159
fuck why are their memes so fresh

>>130162799
Your system can only maintain itself over the partial or complete absence of freedom. The means of production are a result of the interaction between abstract and concrete labour. It is a product of the human mind and potency. Marxist Communism is freedom while in a permanent state of equity and equal access to the means of production. If men are free they have the right to the product of their labour. They can make it private or communal. The same works for the means of production. Your system needs autority and coersion. Communism is incoherent. You can only argue for socialism and its different forms. We are back to the beginning now. National socialism is the optimal socialism.

>>130163574
so was nazi germany

>>130162426
What can I say?
It's the altruist in me.

>>130163787
Exactly, the bourgeoisie is what's for dinner. This is why direct democracy is a good thing it cuts out the middle-man puppets that exist to shield their bosses and places their power squarely in the hands of the majority.

It is patently obvious that when early architects of representative democracy talk about protecting "the minority" they mean themselves and their rich friends.

>>130163927

The problem with your meme is you fail to take into account the kids skill.

If mediocrity is the standard, then it is correct.

>>130163927
and then he plays a movement outside of the social realist canon and gets sentenced to a 25er in Siberia

>>130164086

Switzerland is a direct democracy. You're not very good at this.

>>130164055
>implying nazi germany was bad

Literally the strongest economy, with the best technology, science, and military.
Nobody BTFO'd more commies than the fascists

>>130164194
It's not really. Most cantons aren't really direct democracies anymore, and the Swiss benefit massively from capitalism anyway so of course they would want to keep it.

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If communism is a movement of the working class, why does all the working class vote super right wing? In fact historically, the working class has been the primary opposition to communism.

Communists strongest support ironically comes from the upper class and intellectuals who never worked a day in their lives. For example Marx, Trotsky, Lenin. All born extremely wealthy (and all jewish by the way)

>>130164086
but the majority of people are stupid, and I don't want stupid people controlling what I can and can't do, if you want evidence for this claim just look at trump

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>>130163927

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>>130164208
>Nobody BTFO'd more commies than the fascists
Except . . . literally anyone besides the fascists?

>>130164409

So then how would direct democracy benefit "the proletariat"?

So lets say they vote to take everything I own and redistribute it, I simply leave the country.

Who produces?

>>130163811
Yeah, someone gets to own something. And what if that person ends up becoming a bad person uses what they own to exploit others? Many, if not all, of these people, the private owners, only want power in their own hands for profit. They don't care if it's bad for you, or it isn't beneficial for you, they just want to convince you that it's beneficial. That's the goal of these private owners, and nothing more.

>>130164733

Congratulations, you just articled human nature.

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>>130163927
That right picture looks very bourgeois, I'm not sure it's representative of the starving peasant majority

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>Feel free to ask or discuss about the superiority of communism.

You mean the collapse and decline of a system that's been tried and tested, in which 90%+ of countries globally reject its results.

Countries that 'declare' themselves communist: China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea and Vietnam.

I don't need to expand my point any further.

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>>130157519
Fun fact: socialism and any ideology related to it dosent work

>>130164575
Without massive economic support from other allied nations, the Soviet Union was completely toast.

National Socialism was literally a reactionary ideology against Bolshevism. It is the anti-commie. This is why communists to this very day still wet their beds at the though to fascists. Because the fascists actually have the support of the working class, communists don't.

>>130164733
>the state leaders wouldn't control wealth for their own good either
Gullible twat.

>>130164575
>Soviets outnumbered the Germans 5 to 1
>had more tanks, more artillery and more planes in the push through Berlin
>ended losing almost the exact same number of troops despite this massive advantage
Yeah, clearly superior Soviet tactics right there

>>130164552
Precisely. Which is why I don't want my entire life to be ruled by other people e.g my boss, my MP, the prime minister. I don't want to spend forever just picking who gets to rule me, I want to rule myself. And as I see it in a planet of billions of people direct democracy interlinked across communities is the road to doing this.

You did raise a good point though, there should be some rules. And I think democracy only applying to community issues should be one of them. So for instance no one can vote to say for example we must all now convert to Judaism as religion should be a personal matter.

>>130164578
>Who produces?
The same people who produce right now, the proletariat. They already make all the wealth, the bourgeoisie only skim off the top of their employees labour. Or in some cases, conjure money out of no where via banking and collusion with the government.

If they leave with a fat bank account it doesn't really matter. All the means of production can't leave with them. They can't uproot factories out of the ground and take those to the Cayman islands.

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>>130164578
Marx told that if you are going to leave the country, then they kill you and confiscate all your property

Stalin developed idea in his collectivistic state cpitalism and put both jews and "people that want to live" to gulag.

how is that autistic thread still alive
commies are such leeches, producing nothing and blathering all day to explain how the world would be a better place if it was redesigned so everybody would be equal and they would rule
unironically kill yourselves commie tards

>>130157519
>Yes, but at least we had lines to provide food for people. The great system covered every citizen and provided equality
The problem with leftists is they say shit like this with pride because it's "obviously" a good thing, right? But no, it isn't. Part of growing up is realizing things don't come out of thin air, people have to make them; if you can't provide for the group, the group shouldn't have to provide for you. And guess what? We aren't equal. Some people are useless sacks of shit who spend their life mooching off their hard-working friend and daydreaming about a government that babysits them because they're too fucking lazy and stupid to provide for themself. You want the government to take care of them? Me, too. With a bullet.

People aren't special. Any nigger can go make 20 kids. Another 20 kids the people will be forced to share with. That's bullshit. Only a dirty kike could ever think that makes sense 'cause they'll find a way to avoid giving up their money, like they always do.

The Soviet Revolution happened because the tsar treated Jews like shit, so they mobilized all non-Russians into overthrowing the royalty with the promise of everyone benefiting. What they got was millions of dead farmers and the Jews jumped ship when Stalin started including them in his killings. A Jewish form of government that benefits Jews and when it stops doing that they run away.

Go suck some more baby dick.

>>130164086
but's let's say the majority are catholic and they use their vote to silence protestants and atheists?

>>130165283
"people which want to leave"
correction

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>>130164892
>This is why communists to this very day still wet their beds at the though to fascists.
Believe me, we don't.

>>130163514
I believe that communism is fundamentally a moneyless, classist and stateless society where people can trade goods with each other without any boundaries.

The modern and past states that operates under a "communist" flag have a one government that lets workers distribute their own goods through hard work, this is what we call socialism. But albeit this is the case, from a communistic viewpoint, the workers are still being oppressed by the state.

This is why I distinguish socialism from communism.

>>130165226

I think you fail to understand what it goes into "producing". This isn't the 19th century where you have some dude on the line screwing in a screw.

The value of your labor is not based on the net efficiency you bring to the market (Marx' Theory of labor) but simply your replacement cost.

E.g., how easy is it to replace you? Basic supply and demand. Economics 101. Human-fucking nature.

You bet the guy that designs the tractor makes more than the guy using it, why? How hard is it to drive a tractor vs how hard is it to design on.

The concept is not difficult to understand.

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>Someone tells you how great communism is
>Go to eastern Europe
>See pic related, built by communists
Wew lad, looks amazing

>>130165401
This is why in another point

>direct democracy interlinked across communities
There's a reason Switzerland and Rojava are divided into cantons. They're very diverse places and so each community votes amongst themselves and delegates upwards rather than the direct democracy happening on a unitary nationwide basis.

>>130165226
What incentive does the "bourgeoisie" that hires, pays for, provides for, looks out for and organise for have to do any of such? Do you really think that Elon Musk should be paid the same as the dumbo working in one of the factories manufacturing for him is?

>>130164868
Fun fact: Every capitalist nation on earth has extensive socialist policies that ensure the markets can function at optimum efficiency.

Learn the world before claiming to understand it you simpleton.

>>130157519
I'm really getting riled up by this wretched spaniard, communism is literally the most tyrannical ideology that has ever existed on this earth, i beg of you just read the communist manifesto and you too will know why it is the case.

>>130165551

At least you have your definition correct. I can't tell you how many discussions I've head with "communists" who then discuss "unequal distributions of money"

The ideal of Communism would work in a world without scarcity. Regrettably we live on a finite planet, and scarcity is everywhere.

>>130165226
so you want a constitutional democracy, welcome to america

>>130164910
Yeah, because there aren't any corrupt state leaders that haven't been/are still in existence, right?

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>>130163242
>guys communism has never been tried
>it just inconveniently collapses the closer we get to it
>next time tho

>>130165566
You're not really getting at my point. The guy who designs the tractors is not the guy who owns the tractor company, that's something else the employer employs people to do. Both the engineer and the factory worker are proletariat being exploited by the boss and both of them are producers whilst the boss is not.

>>130164575
>tfw you realise the (((Soviets))) were literally Operation Humanshield and Operation Get Behind the Goys

>>130165637
Ever lived inside one, m8? They are absolutely fucking shit-tier places to live, the only advantage they have is that they can house lots of people in a small area, there is no other benefit to them

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>>130165841

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>>130165811

How come to this day, Eastern Europe is an economically depressed hellhole. While the capitalist west enjoys the highest standard of living on earth?

Why were millions of people fleeing from East Germany to West Germany?

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>>130164868
Why is commie architecture so hideous? Is it intentionally so or did they simply not care about beauty?

>>130165638
so voters have to compete with each other to make their region more attractive to workers, sounds like capitalism to me

>>130165991
Communism is a fundamentally-miserable ideology.

>>130165651
No I don't think Elon Musk should be paid at all. I think the wealth and control should rest in the hands of his manufacturers, engineers, administrators and so forth.

>but he pays them
No he doesn't. They give him the value they produce, it is them who is doing the giving. He only gives a fraction of their own value back.

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>>130165958
>these are the arguments they will resort to
Holy fucking shit

Does this actually work on retarded numales who major Psychology?

>>130165991
nice looking buildings are bourgeoise
flat grey blocks are the wave of the future comrade

>>130165775
>I can't tell you how many discussions I've head with "communists" who then discuss "unequal distributions of money"

When it comes to discussions, I try not to use strawmans.

>The ideal of Communism would work in a world without scarcity. Regrettably we live on a finite planet, and scarcity is everywhere.

I agree, but there's one thing you should be aware of, countries like China and Cuba are developing countries who wish to become developed in several aspects, whether it's societal aspects, infrastructural aspects, etc... etc... Let's say ,hypothetically, that if a poor and agricultural country is convinced by a socialist that workers can grow their crops in order to feed their nation, would you blame them?

>>130165886

No I understand your point, and appreciate you are going with this. I think some of what you say has merit, but unfortunately you need to work backwards through the "monetary food chain" a little.

What does the engineer do with all the additional savings he racks up over a few years, that the driver doesn't have?

Perhaps said another way, assuming you agree that the engineer should earn more money (real and nominal value - for purposes of this discussion) than the tracker driver, what does he do with his "wealth"?

I understand the thesis of Communism and you appear to be a purest (always the most fun to discuss with), but your system only works if both the engineer and the driver earn the same.

As soon as one earns more than the other, he develops savings and then has the ability to start his own tractor factory, so to speak.

>>130165794
Here's the thing though, America is a representative democracy. That's not what I want.

Representative democracies and particularly America don't have a monopoly on a constitution.

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>>130165566
What is more valuable: your life or 10% of your total man-hours?
You can design rockets in communistic prison

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharashka

all such ideologies are totalitarian, be it Nazism, communism or modern socialism.

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>>130165991
Why is capitalist architecture so hideous? Is it intentionally so or did they not care about beauty?

>>130166018
But the voters are the workers. Why would some region of workers make itself less nice for workers than another? They're all workers, they all want to live somewhere nice, they all want their own communities to be nice.

>>130164733
>And what if that person ends up becoming a bad person uses what they own to exploit others
What are Jews? Also it's nearly impossible to prevent evil from existing. It is what balances and brings contrast to the good in mankind(and all the other domains too).
>Many, if not all, of these people, the private owners, only want power in their own hands for profit.
Jews again, also how would a communist government, prevent this from ever even being able to happen amongst themselves?
>They don't care if it's bad for you, or it isn't beneficial for you, they just want to convince you that it's beneficial.
Are you trying to call out the jews here? Cause it sure seems so.
Also that is what the law is for, if government officials, and private owners are exempted from consequences, then it becomes a problem.
Companies provide products for the people to buy, thus they must make sure, that it abides to health and safety concerns and standards.
Otherwise they will get rekt by the law, and the people, until they do.
>That's the goal of these private owners, and nothing more.
I doubt that you know and understand every private owner's their motives, however, it's true that they too need to abide to the law, you don't need socialism for this, you need the law and lawful persecution for this.

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FUN FACT
More Taxes == Better country

>>130166198
If they don't like what Elon pays them, they can work elsewhere, which would pressure Elon to paying them more.
The retard working in some factory in Indonesia is expendable, Elon Musk isn't.
He hires them to perform him a service, and he pays them what he promises, while retaining money for investing elsewhere as well as personal gain. Again, if they don't like this, they can work elsewhere.

>>130166018
Also fun fact is that it happened that way in the Soviet Union as well, the USSR pandered very heavily towards people living in the capital.


>>130166475
>dodging the question

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>>130166540
>implying Communism is just taxes

>>130165958
>next time we'll reach real communism
>next time

>>130158283
EU is commie. Altiero Spinelli is a protip

>>130166467
Nobody is living there dumbass. You literally have millions of people living in depressing gray ant-colonies in these communist countries

>>130166329

>Let's say ,hypothetically, that if a poor and agricultural country is convinced by a socialist that workers can grow their crops in order to feed their nation, would you blame them?

If its that farmer's free choice to forgo any potential profit and use his talents, land, machinery and feed his country then good for him.

The problem is when the state shows up, says "everything now belongs to us" and "you now work for free" -- its slavery. Productivity plummets.

I appreciate you'll say "well that isn't real Communism because in real Communism there is no state" and while I understand that -- if you are to have no state, you have to have a consortium of willing individuals to participate in it.

As soon as you remove one's ability to consent to live in such a system, you require a state to force them to work.

Its the "human nature" argument I am sure you are all to familiar with.

>>130165958
The merchant republics that predate the US did just fine. Lrn2history

>>130157519
>Yes, but at least we had lines to provide food for people.

People were starving to death en masse you moron.

>>130164791
Exactly, but the only reason I've done so is to note that there's a dark side of capitalism.

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>>130166637

none of them work, but leave it to facists to pretend they are anything other then a more shitty version of communism

they are communism with contradictions

>>130166332
This is the thing. This is why I identify the main problem being commercial property, it's that which is at the root of this system and if we're going to have a truly free society we're going to need to take some constitutional stance on that.

Additionally in such a system where workers control the wealth they produce and their own working conditions why would anyone wish to work in a privately owned enterprise? If co-operative enterprises are abundant and the mainstream mode of production then why would a worker wish to work in a private one? That would mean making less money and having no control over ones terms and conditions. The only way a potential private owner could compete with the other co-operative enterprises is if he paid his workers at a loss, which would mean his businesses is unsustainable and will inevitably go bust.

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>>130166467
I don't know what Le Corbusier was but he designed ugly buildings on purpose. Anyway, I'm against both communism and capitalism

>>130166985
>workers control the wealth they produce
who is not a "worker"?

Is a heart surgeon a "worker"?
Is an IT professional a "worker"?

What the fuck are you even talking about with this rhetoric? This is not late 19th century eastern europe

>>130166985
>6

But we already have that. You have the ability to quit your job and start your own business. Be your own boss.

I don't see anything in your argument that our current (crony) capitalist society already doesn't have.

>>130166540
>denmark is oil rich and still has to tax 46%~ of peoples income to maintain somewhat socialist system
>saudi arabia only taxes 5% and has almost twice the GDP under a capitalist system
makes me think

>>130167383
Also would be hilarious to see how someone would even collect taxes in a country like Afghanistan if they were 35.7% like the EU rather than the 6.4% they have there.

>>130166548
Here's the thing though. Virtually all of the MoP on the planet is private, he doesn't get a meaningful choice as the entire bourgeoisie have a common class interest - making more money. It contrary to that to pay their low-level employees more so they will always offer them the bare minimum. And as you point out these employees are expendable, if one doesn't accept their offer another will, they have no real negotiating power. This is why the system is one-sided.

>Elon Musk isn't.
Here's the thing though. Elon Musk is to an extent also expendable. If Elon Musk died tomorrow the board of directors would simply appoint another CEO. It is not the man that is valuable to the workers, it is his property, that is what they truly need to survive. They don't want to work "for" Elon Musk they want to work "at" Elon Musk's factory.

This is the true fulcrum of the material relationship. Not the owner, not the worker, but the MoP. This is the axis upon which the system orbits. Now on the societal level we need to consider what is actually necessary. The workers to produce from the MoP, or the bourgeoisie to profit from it. The answer is clear, we could not survive without workers, we could easily survive without bosses.

>>130166605
It wasn't a question it was a statement and I pointed out the error in it.

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>>130166525
>What are Jews? Also it's nearly impossible to prevent evil from existing. It is what balances and brings contrast to the good in mankind(and all the other domains too).

The Jews, huh? You say that as if every private owner is a Jew, which is fallacious.

>Are you trying to call out the jews here? Cause it sure seems so.

No, I am not. This is what many private owners want, no matter the ethnicity. The mere fact that you point out that the Jews are doing so is purely coincidental. I can show pic related to everyone, and idiots will buy it.

>I doubt that you know and understand every private owner's their motives.

No, I understand quite clearly, but know that there are those in private enterprises who wish to exploit others, simply because it pays more. If you have the power to do so, why not do it? If someone convinces you that if it feels good, why not do it?

>>130157848
HOLY SHIT
>RARE

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>>130157519

>>130167660

Hate to brake it to you -- both the bourgeoisie and the proletariat have an interest in making "money" as both groups of people want to improve their respective quality of life.

>>130167782
And we're 259 replies in :^)

From Fortune.com: the US creates 1,700 new millionaires ever single day

This bourgeoisie seems to be getting larger all the time. We better do something!

>>130157519
Communism is the real red pill
Don't get cucked by (((capitalism)))

>>130167225
You are not a worker if you control MoP. You are worker if you don't control MoP and as such have to sell your labour to survive.

>Is a heart surgeon a "worker"?
Yes.
>Is an IT professional a "worker"?
Yes.

>>130167325
> You have the ability to quit your job and start your own business
Only if you have the capital to do so. Or alternatively you could take out a loan but then you've just defeated the entire point of being independent as you have a new master of capital to obey - the bank. And even if you succeed in taking your business off the ground and paying back the loan you have not actually cheated the system, it's still going strong, you've mainly switched the material relationship putting yourself as the boss and making new workers to be under you. Workers that are still exploited - just now by you.

>I don't see anything in your argument that our current (crony) capitalist society already doesn't have.
Direct democracy?
Worker control of the MoP?

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>>130166640
I'm pretty tired of this "argument".
There is a fundamental difference between Communism, Stalinism-Leninism, Maoism, Socialism.
Communism, by definition, requires these demands to be met:

>Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes
>A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
>Abolition of all rights of inheritance
>Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels
>Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly
>Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state
>Extention of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance witha common plan.
>Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
>Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country
>Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.

USSR didn't do all of these, Maoist China didn't do all of these, Venezula certainly didn't do all of these, Cuba didn't do all of these, Vietnam didn't do all of these, North Korea doesn't do any of these.

It's not communism by definition.
Arguably none of these states set out to actually do communism, but instead were merely influenced by Marxist thinking.

>>130166853
The shakers did just fine
The socialist communes did just fine
Anarchist Spain did just fine
Lrn2history.

>>130157519
How about you guys stop being the political equivalent of the Indians shitting in the street dear commie.

>>130167820
Exactly. Thus is the class war.

We both want more money. They profit off our labour, our money comes from the wages they give us. Higher wages means smaller profits, higher taxes to fund more generous social programs means smaller profits, the fact that we both want more money is the dialectic that makes the world go round.

>>130168133
>Only if you have the capital to do so. Or alternatively you could take out a loan but then you've just defeated the entire point of being independent as you have a new master of capital to obey - the bank. And even if you succeed in taking your business off the ground and paying back the loan you have not actually cheated the system, it's still going strong, you've mainly switched the material relationship putting yourself as the boss and making new workers to be under you. Workers that are still exploited - just now by you.

But herein lies the rub, in our system you AT LEAST have the opportunity to "change your relationship" to the system.

In your system you don't have that opportunity.

Anyway, off to dinner. Enjoyed the chat.

>>130167660
>no real negotiating power
Yes, they do. If they work in shit conditions for shit pay, and if another employer offers better conditions and better pay, but the work is essentially the same, labour will move to the latter. The latter scenario is bound to happen in a competitive market.
Individuals can be great and very unique innovators. If Elon died and some useless schmuck took over, the corporation would lack the vision and inspiration that it previously had, from the CEO to the board of directors to the managers to the workers. Even if you want to say Elon Musk is expendable because he is part of small group of people that can lead a large corporation, then let's compare the groups: the group that leads the corporation is still more valuable than the group that follows and works for such.
>we could easily survive without bosses
How would that even work? If you make everybody a worker for the state, they would still have a boss.

>>130168133
>You are not a worker if you control MoP
Whatever that means.

Is the person who owns the lease on the property of Google headquarters the "owner of the MoP"? These terms such as "Means of Production" may have made some sense in an era of factory workers, but they have little relevance to the modern world.

Who owns the "means of production" at 4chan?

>>130167706
>but know that there are those in private enterprises who wish to exploit others, simply because it pays more.
nope they just know that they'll go out of business because someone else will do it if they don't. there in lies the problem with laissez faire capitalism

Reading through this thread and seeing the general gist of what you desire to force upon people of the world makes me realize something. You're a short term thinker. You identify an immediate problem and propose a solution. You repeat this process for every problem you identify. However, your system of thinking makes no allowances for unidentified or ignored problems. You also fail to step back and see how this system of spot fixes will become incorporated into an entire system that perpetuates a nightmare dystopia.

Things would be great because all of the spot fixes continue to do what they were designed to do, right? That's one of the issues in Venezuela right now. All of the solutions did exactly what they were supposed to but all of the unintended consequences and ignored fallout from their implementation have led to a disaster.

Please let go of the pompous, arrogant presumption that you and your Marxist colleagues have everything figured out. You, and your allies, are not perfect or omniscient.

You attempt to condemn mankind to misery and call for our deaths when we refuse. In the previous century of horrors your ideology stands out as a ridiculous farce of a disaster. Your only superlative is in being a pathetic failure. If you try again we will only laugh at your misery, as we laugh at your ignorance now.

>>130166761
So if a state has full ownership over everything, you view it as slavery? I don't know about you, but I would rather trust the state than trust a bunch of shady private owners who do absolutely nothing to make the world a better place. But I guess the term slavery can always be interchangeable, eg: anarchists say that the government is slavery, therefore the government should be abolished. 2+2 can equal 5 when necessary.

>if you are to have no state, you have to have a consortium of willing individuals to participate in it.

Of course. Therefore, people should not be lazy and only wish for their own selfish desires, start working hard labour, and exchange their goods for everyone.

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Hello gomrades! XDDDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of revolutionary socialism and gommunism.

Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.

Wat exagtly is gommunism according to gommies:

>Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. XDDDD
>Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :DDDD
>To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liquidate you all lol. When capitalists run away we win and I kill you all. Eventually the functions of state cease and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people.
https://www.gommies.gom/fug/
https://www.gommies.gom/starve/

GL uses philosphy of gib and starve, see here:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohfugme/

It is recommend you kill yourself so you can avoid starving.

Resources:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohshid/
https://www.gommies.gom/1984/
https://www.gommies.gom/guck/
https://www.gommies.gom/probaganda/
https://www.gommies.gom/XDDDD/
https://www.gommies.gom/wheresfood/
https://www.gommies.gom/benis/

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Da sdages of gommunism.

>Sdage one
Bourgers aren't allowed to vode :DDD but otherwise da system is digtadorshib of gommies. Everything is stole by digtadors and digtadors rule all.

>Sdade two
Withering
All beeple who aren't digtador glass starve. XDDD Once glass disabears and we steal everything more beeple wither away. Bolice begome unnecessary as beeple are dead lol :DDDDD Central blanning begomes unnecessary begause sgarcity caused starving. Money is all ours.

>Sdage three
Gommunism.
No beeple. No food. My money. Much benis.

>>130168143
>sub 80 IQ niggers die from preventable causes because they can't create societies for shit
>This is the fault of capitalism

Why not just shovel all our resources at Africa and wait for them to finally invent the wheel?

>>130168512
>they just know that they'll go out of business because someone else will do it if they don't.

This too, I guess.

>>130168133
>Is Will Smith with 30 million dollars per movie a ''worker''?
Yes, of c-course, y-you rightwing bigot.

>Direct democracy
>Worker control of the MoP

How to spot a retard who was never a member of any working party.

Dude, piss of to tweet about hate speech on the internet via your iPhone 7 and stop embarrassing yourself.

>>130168681
So all you can do is meme, huh? You don't even want to try and have a political discussion, you just want to feel superior by humiliating others. I understand your motives loud and clear.

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>>130168714
>Colonize Africa
>subject them to arbitrary state lines, dooming many to permanent ethnic warfare
>Kill their preeminent thinkers in the 60s
>Somehow act as if it isn't our fault

But more importantly than that
>Have the ability to ease, if not outright prevent suffering
>Willing choose not to

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>>130168143
i know it's not communism. my point is the closer you get to 'real communism' the more likely of collapse. maybe it's because we don't live in a post scarcity society yet??? so retarded that gommies don't even acknowledge this

>>130168681
GOTEM

>>130157519
>no unemployment in the USSR

lol yeah because half of them were "employed" in the fucking Gulag

>>130158078
Sure. My grandparents, parents and me have lived in this equality until 1989 in Poland. Thank you but fuck you. Right now.

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>>130169122
>be africa
>live like literal animals
>never invent the wheel
>Europeans come
>Build actual functioning modern societies with modern medicine and institutions
>population explodes

Mean IQ in Africa is literally below 70. Every single place on Earth black people live looks like a post-apocalyptic wasteland. Whether that's Zimbabwe, Detroit, or Haiti

>>130169205
Do you have a single fact to back that up?
What states do you have in mind?

>>130165811
Keep meming, I'm sure you'll save the world from the evil tentacle grasps of communism by doing so.

>>130169122
>Sub-Saharan Africa didn't have any wheels until whitey showed up
>Ireland was colonised and raped worse than many other African nations
>is doing just fine today
>Ethiopia suffered minimal colonialism (was invaded by Italy)
>is a shithole to this day
>Poland was invaded by the Germans
>is leagues ahead of Ethiopia
>Haiti was one of the richest countries in the Western Hemisphere
>kicked whitey out in the Napoleonic Era
>turned to immediate shit
>is a shithole still
Seems to me that when white countries are colonised they bounce back, but when black countries are, their standard of living drastically increases, and, when they kick their oppressors out, it drastically decreases and barely improves since

>>130168143
>There is a fundamental difference between Communism, Stalinism-Leninism, Maoism, Socialism.
>There is fundamental difference between shit, brown shit, black shit, greenish shit, caramel like shit with red sprinkles on top shit.

Top ideology, 10/10

>>130167706
>I'm confusing nationality with race.
Wew.

>If you have the power to do so, why not do it?
Because it's inhuman to abuse other humans for money profit anon, that's why.
>If someone convinces you that if it feels good, why not do it?
One must be devoid from human emotion, and as well empathy to truly sacrifice human lives for an extra buck, I simply would decline sacrificing others for such shallow gains.
My downfall from a wealthy position would solely be because I made some wrong decisions, or because others are sabotaging me.
And inhuman behaviour is not tied to class anon, it's tied to humans.

Why are commies so obsessed with seizing the means of production? Can't they make their own?

I guess their philosophy is founded on jealousy in place of self improvement. It's like watching a cooking channel and ram raiding the studio because the food looks so tasty, rather than procuring and preparing your own: not only is the former a shitty thing to do but it's likely to ruin the food entirely.

>>130167706
>Irish
>second largest ancestry in America
>Jewish
>less than 3%
>48% of US billionaires
Hmmm...

>>130168351
Yes, because it's classless. We don't want people who just make money for doing nothing we want people to work and receive the full value of their efforts.

>>130168373
>Yes, they do.
But they don't. As you said the factory worker is expendable. If he walks out there is someone already waiting to replace him, and if he goes somewhere else demanding more there is already someone waiting to do it for less. The only way this could be circumvented is if there's such an absurd demand for low-level labour that low-level labourers can successfully negotiate for higher wages and better conditions because the bosses just need workers that bad. This is why for the bourgeoisie things like unemployment and immigration are good, it makes low level jobs more competitive and drives wages down.

You would be right if you meant skilled professionals who are few and far between but those people aren't expendable.

>Individuals can be great
I agree. And how are the innovators of the company? The engineers, it's them that design everything, it's them that make technology more innovative. Not the CEO (I'm aware many CEO's start out as engineers but by the time they become CEO's that's not really their responsibility as they've long since delegated it elsewhere). The engineers are part of the proletariat and they too stand to gain from socialism.

>the group that leads is more valuable
But they are not though. Their scarcity does not necessarily make them valuable because they are only valuable because of how the capitalist system works. It needs people at the top bossing people around, socialism does not - in socialism that power belongs to the workers as a whole.

>If you make everybody a worker for the state
You should read earlier in the convo where I was talking to the ancap and the German guy about direct democracy and a co-operative market economy. I don't want a centrally planned economy. I want a direct democratic co-operative market economy.

>>130169976
>As you said the factory worker is expendable
Why do factory jobs in the US pay a starting salary of $80,000 a year?

These are literally some of the most lucrative sought-after jobs

Oh, it's a statecuck thread.

>b-but, it's NOT a state ruling my life, it's s-something else!

>>130168403
>Is the person who owns the lease on the property of Google headquarters the "owner of the MoP"?
Not necessarily. The stockholders of google would be the owners of the MoP.

>Who owns the "means of production" at 4chan?
Well Hiroyuki of course.

>>130170135
>The stockholders of google would be the owners of the MoP.
Better not buy any stock then

Your grandpa probably owns some though, might want to have a chat with him

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>>130157519
Communism is superior to capitaism in any way
>capitaism
Communism is inferior to capitalism in any way
fixed

>>130168909
>Yes, of c-course, y-you rightwing bigot.

Well, yeah. Why wouldn't he be. He doesn't own MoP. He sells his labour. Granted he sells his labour for an astronomical amount but he's still selling it. If you think there can be no rich proletariat and poor bourgeoisie you need to actually read some communist theory.

>How to spot a retard who was never a member of any working party.
>Dude, piss of to tweet about hate speech on the internet via your iPhone 7 and stop embarrassing yourself.
Not an argument.

>>130169492
>muh racism
Okay.
How do you explain thinkers like
>Patrice Lumumba
>Chinua Achebe
>Frantz Fanon

>>130169655
>my argument is meme
prime time spectacle

>>130169811
>Can't they make their own?
If the means of production are owned by the bourgeoisie, how are the labourers to make their own? Forging means production necessarily requires the pre-existing means of production.

>>130170100
It's a state of radical individuals working for the sake of other radical individuals.

>>130157519
FUCK social-imperialist First World Marxism. We need MAOISM THIRD WORLDISM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN7FpwAa-Ls

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>>130168681
Thank god for spurdo posters.

>>130169811
No, they cannot, because they do not work. The place where you find most commies are sociology courses for 120k, easily recognizable by the disdain for anyone in the working class.
I am sure that some retard will instantly fly out of the woodwork, screeching 'b-b-but I work' but it seems that the working commies exist only on the internet, because in the real life they live off daddy's money, or 'organize' or 'publish papers'.
No wonder, the eternal leech Marx was doing the same.
Why do you think the fucktard in this thread constantly try to shuffle the meaning of 'worker'.

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>>130169510
anon did you not see the graph i attatched. that is clearly fact
>>130169571
yep i am trying to save the world from a dead ideology kek

>>130157519
>Yes, but at least we had lines to provide food for people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

No you didn't retard.

communism, when you know you're a personal failure and want everybody else to be one as well!

>>130170398
>prime time spectacle
Your ideology is meme for rich cocksuckers.

>>130170084
Well because the nature of factory workers in the first world is very different to that of those in places like Indonesia. Here we have sophisticated automation that does the majority of the work so factory workers are mainly skilled technical professionals and craftsmen that are needed to do jobs machines cannot.

>>130170232
Is this supposed to be an argument?

>>130169976
>we want people to work and receive the full value of their efforts

People already do. If they're not receiving every penny that is paid for their work it's because significant investments were made and/or risks undertaken to establish the environment in which they work.

Let me put it at a level you can understand:

Let's say you open a lemonade stand but your parents are hard-nosed bastards so they insist you procure all your own supplies. Non-perishable items like the squeezer, the table and the sign are investments (although they're also risks in a way). Then there are the perishables, the real risks; you have to purchase enough lemons to meet demand but, if you purchase too many they will rot before you can sell them. Even the ice is a risk since it requires power to produce and sustain it.

Despite all these potential pitfalls, you somehow make your lemonade stand a success. Because of swelling demand, you buy more squeezers and a bigger table as well as increasing your orders of consumables.

The extra work means that the neigbour's boy, Billy, offers to help out. You can either pay him a salary or a percentage of the takings. Since you're doing equal number of hours' work Billy demands the latter at 50%. Billy is a cunt, even if he asks for 50% of the profit, he's still a cunt because he undertook no risks, he's just squeezing lemons without consequence.

Billy is, of course, free to set up his own lemonade stand but, being a lazy cunt, he instead whines about how you are oppressing him by selling your delicious lemonade without giving him equal pay for equal work.

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>>130170599
Czech'd

>>130170398
>How do you explain thinkers like
>>Patrice Lumumba
>>Chinua Achebe
>>Frantz Fanon
do communists not believe in Gaussian distributions now?