Fascism and National Socialism

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Fascism is Italian in origin
National Socialism is German/Prussian
Falangism is Spanish

The Fasces is an old Roman symbol representing strength through unity. Fascism generally meant collective action used to oppose Marxism/Communism.

By World War 1 the old right wing monarchism had been discredited and democracy was seen as too weak to oppose communism.

National Socialism was fairly similar but it borrowed most of it's ideology from the old German pre WW1 economic system and from Prussian military tradition.

Falangism was the Spanish variant and was responsible for the Spanish economic miracle in the 60s-70s

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>>129971901
Personally I like the Falangist symbol the most.

It's based on the old Greek word phalanx which means "battle line". Falangism has roots in Spain's militaristic and reoconquista past.

>>129971901
Pretty good description. National Socialism also included a racial element while Fascists were more liberal with who was included within the nation state.

Depends on how you're defining "fascism."

http://nationalvanguard.org/2015/06/dr-william-pierce-on-the-difference-between-national-socialism-and-fascism/

This article does a good job of explaining the difference between Mussolini fascism and national socialism. In the former, the state come first. In the latter, the state is a means to an end, and race comes first.

If you're describing it more broadly, the distinction might be the role of the state in the economy. Hitler's Germany had social programs and nationalized industry, while something like Pinochet's Chile was more laissez-faire.

Fascism is used as the sort of umbrella term because Mussolini was first. You could say national socialism and falangism are variant types of fascism.

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>>129971294
There are no differences. If you're to the right of Bernie you're both of them

Fucking drumpf people are retarded

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>>129971294
NatSoc=Absolute loyalty to your race
Fascism=Absolute loyalty to your state

National Socialism. Picture the Scandinavian countries as strict ethnostates getting back in touch with their old Gods and rejecting foreign influence and you have something approaching functional Nat Soc.

>>129972706
Social programs and public works projects were actually a big part of fascist italy. From the autostrata (italy's autobahn) to cinnecita movie studios to money for widows to family activity days, the social element is why so many italians are openly nostalgic for those days.

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Hitler explicitly stated National Socialism was meant to take the best parts of Nationalism and socialism to balance the downfalls of both ideologies while retaining their benefits.

>>129972953 Not true at all. what do you think all that roman larping was about? In fact Hitler just combined the "new rome" idea with germanic traditions a la the holy roman empire w/out the overt religious element.

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>>129972953
Mussolini fascism was statist, but fascism has been defined as a mainly nationalistic ideology by other fascist like Codreanu and Mosley.

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Nazism is a kind of fascism, but it differs as it is particularly concerned with the existence and welfare of the Germanic peoples and views these as the master race.

Mussolini didn't view race as anything important and put more value in the national spirit, there is even an italian marching song about going to Africa and bringing nigger females with them home and turning them italian

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ELAlKMF0ts

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>>129973105
People are also still nostalgic for the America of the 1950s

Of course I doubt you would be since there were building roads and other "evil" statist infrastructure.

This is the fundamental and very important difference

Mussolini:
>Fascism conceives of the State as an absolute, in comparison with which all individuals or groups are relative, only to be conceived in their relation to the State.

Hitler:
>The state is only a means to an end. Its end and its purpose is to preserve and promote a community of human beings who are physically as well as spiritually kindred. Above all, it must preserve the existence of the race

>>129973757
>particularly concerned with the existence and welfare of the Germanic peoples and views these as the master race
If Germanic people are viewed as the master race could you be for example, a Southern European or Eastern European National Socialist?

>>129974098
Yes NS is applicable to all within their racial groups as defined by national socialists. Black Africans could learn a thing or two when it comes to eugenics and uplift their own race for example. National socialist Germany held true the belief that the Germanic people (Aryans) were superior to all other races due to their capacity for invention. Others argue against this saying civilization only breeds weak men who have weak genes and that a true super man can only be created through the hardship and struggle of nature citing the Athenian thinkers of old.

>>129974098
>If Germanic people are viewed as the master race
This is always an interesting mix-up. Germans weren't viewed as the master race, the Nordics were viewed as the master race, hence, the blond haired-blue eyed aryan.
Yes, you could still be a southern european or eastern european national socialist; the entire point was for you to understand your blood and race, and adopt a system of government that most fit your peoples' natures.
This is the importance of the racial component; same blood, same spirit. Hitler proved this by dragging Germany out of choking poverty and into a power that drew the wrath of international jewry to the extent that the entire world fought against the Axis.

>>129974098
racial nationalism is for all people
while Hitlerian national socialism and it's doctrines are explicitly germanic in nature and origin they needn't be practiced exclusively by germans.
Any people can adopt it's methods and practice them according to their own needs and abilities
however however no other people will be as successful as the germanic people since we are the master race.

at least that's the way I see it

Consider which one is completely forbidden and taboo and which one is allowed to linger.
Ince you see that you might start to understand which is the joke ideology and which one is powerful.

>>129974586

I think most peoples could be national socialist, but I think nigs are an exception. They respond to external stimulation, not internal stimulation.

Abstract ideas like honour are beyond them, their brains work on a much simpler level

>will this benefit me
>will this hurt me

a 'successful' African state would have to be a strict disciplinarian and harsh one

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>>129973757
>>129972477
Not really

Mussolini just cared more about Italians, who are Indo-European(Aryan) people, but not Germanic

>>129974098
National Socialism had more to do with being Indo-European(Aryan) as opposed to Semitic, largely for cultural reasons.

Jews (Semites), were accurately seen as promoters of Marxism and Bolshevism, which is an irrefutable fact. These genocides perpetrated by jewish bolsheviks occurred during the communist takeover of the former Russian Empire.

>>129974669
Nordic people are germanic, just not german-speaking

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There is NO inherent difference between National Socialism and Fascism

Both contain the same exact worldview, just applied within specific circumstances. Faggots who said Italian Fascism had no conception of race obviously do not read history.

Both were spiritual, upheld the natural order, believed in tradition, inequality, hierarchy, etc,

People who talk about how Fascism only cares about the "state" almost always don't understand the Fascist conception of a state. And sure, Italian Fascism was less ideologically mature, but it doesn't mean it wasn't the SAME worldview

>>129971294

I don't know you can tolerate mongrel multiracial society

>>129975047
Yes there is kys you dumb nazi cunt

>>129975047
It really wasn't, it was a fundamental difference. The two are related and greatly influenced each other but there were some very fundamental differences

>>129971294
Same thing but NatSoc has a bigger emphasis on race. Mussolinite Fascism not so much. NatSoc is really just an ethno-centric strain of fascism.

>>129974669
>tfw quarter Portuguese, 1/8 Austrian, 1/8 Czech and 1/2 Latvian

>>129975245
>>129975396


I disagree that there are ANY fundamental differences.

And like I said, ideological immaturity doesn't mean it was different. Mussolini sought to reach a racial conception. Look into Evola's commentary on such, as he had many conversations with Mussolini and his views on race.

if ANYONE claims Mussolini was some PC colorblind kosher conservative is foolish

>>129975582
Never said that but Mussolini was not obsessed with the aryan master-race meme, yeah he was a nationalistn'shiet but not to the point of racial purges

>>129975409
Indeed. This is why miscegenation is one of the most tragic of crimes. Those of mixed race, in a word, aren't supposed to exist, and nature moves swiftly to exterminate them, since the laws of nature are ironclad.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/23/mixed-race-children-mental-health
http://www.narconon.org/blog/drug-use/does-race-gender-or-ethnicity-determine-drug-use/

In a word, even the negro has maintained tribes. The person of mixed race, however, has never, and shall never, forge a nation; how can they? They don't last long enough to produce enough talent to do so.

>>129975582
or even apartheid

>>129975867
I ran it through archive

>https://theguardian com/society/2014/feb/23/mixed-race-children-mental-health
https://archive.is/lQNwf

>>129975781
>no racial purges
How you'll achieve the monoracial society then? Anti-immigrant action is the only way

>>129975582
Hmm, I'm not sure

You are right about fascism's ideological immaturity and the fact that Fascist Italy evolved in its ideas of race. But at the same time I think it is possible to have a fully realised and ideologically mature Fascist society in a mixed race state (whether it would be a functioning society is another matter). That simply isn't possible with national socialism

>>129975867
I can't disagree, but I'm not really mixed race

>>129975582
From what i understand the black shirts saw things in a geographical manner rather than a racial manner. Hitler also faced this problem it is why he had to encompass the Aryan peoples to include Japanese ect.

>>129975047
Agreed. Mussolini talked about the importance of the Aryan/Mediterranean race, called the Jews the enemy of Fascism and had laws against miscgenation-as he didn't want Italians mixing with colonial blacks and arabs as the French had, and Fascist Italy had explicit policy and law on race.

When the Duce spoke about the impossibility of 100 percent racial purity, he was speaking more on the Northern-Southern Italian divide and the so called 'Mediterranean inferiority complex' he was not in anyway saying race doesn't matter. In fact the Italians were harsher on Negros and Arabs (and arguably the Slavs) than the Nazi's were.

>>129975781
>>129975896
It was far less necessary in Italy, Mussolini just responded to his specific circumstances

>>129975910
I'll have to disagree with that unless this mixed-race state is that of strict hierarchy of one people ruling the other. Fascism wasn't simply civic nationalism, but it had a strong sense of nationhood and a spiritual idea of a people. I don't think a multi-racial society of equals would be fathomable for fascists. You must view fascism from its specific historical circumstances and how their beliefs related to the situation they were in

You literally cannot have a discussion on fascism because nazi larpers shit up every discussion.

>>129975582
>if ANYONE claims Mussolini was some PC colorblind kosher conservative is foolish
nobody is claiming that, but as italy has a lot more admixtures from around the world than germany, and varies greatly in terms of ethnicity from region to region it is understandable that he'd switch the focus away from racial purity, germanic traits, blue eyes blond hair and so on, towards a unifying national spirit that the swarthier southern Italians and the more European-looking northern ones both were able to get behind
he would obviously not have accepted foreigners within his nation, he obviously believed in the italian people, but Italians on their own are a very broad group and so the language he used was necessary.

>>129976401
If we "nazi larpers" are mistaken, the fascists would correct it.

>>129973757
The song 'Facetta Nera' is literally propaganda to make them seem like liberators to conquered Ethiopia . The Italians were brutal to the Africans, see Marshall Graziani.

>>129976401
right! Deus Vult!

>>129971901
I don't know anything about Spanish history but I'd like to learn about this era. Please recommend good sources especially concerning economic history on the period.

I'm guessing historians have been kinder to those fascists because they stayed out of the war. Am I correct?

>>129976161
Fascism's idea of nationhood is far more than geography. It is related to a specific group of people

>>129976258
Good points

>>129976432
I agree with you definitely, but that's not to say the worldview is different, it is just the same worldview applied in different circumstances.

>>129975867
but what is one of mixed races to do politically and in the sense of society? for example myself am mostly white but my father was a half native, as such I am rejected by both sides of my races. What would be my options in terms of something like national socialism, fascism or racial identity? what can i do? where can i belong?

>>129976761
Although Franco was based, he was still not a true Fascist, and took over and steered the Fascist movement to more of a reactionary position. Many hardcore fascists stood opposed to Franco. By the time World War 2 came around, the true Fascism was over.

I don't know about economics, but any original works by Jose Antonio Primo De Rivera* would help you learn a ton about the early Fascist movement in Spain and how it progressed.

*Founder of the Falange in Spain, killed during the Civil War

>>129976432
Italians looks the same more or less, but the whole territorial integrity of it is a joke. It doesn't really work well

>>129976766
>It is related to a specific group of people
Sure i agree i was meaning a specific group of people within a geographic area. Like the modern day version of WN.

>>129976432
I read somewhere that Mussolini wanted to depopulate Libya, shift southern Italians there, and shift northern Italians into southern Italy. It's not actually true but I wish it had happened

>>129971294
They're similar in that neither one works without widespread terror campaigns, and they both stop working once you run out of wars to fight and young men to send to their deaths.

>>129975903
a monoracial society was never his goal

>>129977263
Basing on genetic intelligence, it's not a bad idea. Maybe southern Portugal demographics can be used to bring Brazil and a West Africa to heels

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>>129976991
Perhaps this shall help. Even part jews, if the jewish part had bled out enough, were granted citizenship within the Third Reich. Which nation most sings and calls to you? That nation is your home; for my part, it was always Germany that most sang to me, and France somewhat, particularly Napoleon Bonaparte.

>>129977019
I'm guessing that English translations are rare, but I'll definitely look into this more.

As an ancap, I'm most interested how the economics of Fascism works. Fascism is obviously more stable than communism and probably more stable than our current systems, but I seriously don't see it lasting. Fascism seems like it would be great for the first couple decades but would stagnate and cost of living would go up and the government would have to take extreme measures to stay above water, but hey that's no worse than what we have today.
To everyone in this thread, any historical economic examinations of fascism would be appreciated.

>>129976991
We sure don't want you in Europe
>>129977986
>civic cuckolding gone NS

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>>129977471
I would have love to see what a Fascist Libya would look like today. I absolutely love the look of fascist architecture in an African context

>>129976991
As I think about it some more, I would recommend service to God and Church. Become a holy man, and God can direct you as to where you should go; he is a God of Miracles, perhaps he would even purify your blood and soul to the way He would have you be.
>>129978302
Heh. These were Hitler's laws for citizenship. That's the great joke, Hitler was very merciful to jews, far more than they deserved.

>>129971294
Socialism is still socialism, which is the transition period between any government type and communism...and nothing more than a shit tier ideology that fails without exception.

ok...sure...it will work this time im sure...

>>129971901
>National Socialism is German/Prussian
>Prussian
No it isn't. None of the major founders or leaders of the Nazi party were Prussian and most of the old Prussian aristocracy and military officers were monarchists. Calling National Socialism Prussian is like calling Bolshevism a Russian/Khazak idea.

>>129978617
>Socialism is still socialism
German and Prussian socialism. They are vastly different from Marxist socialism, which, as you correctly assess, simply means transfer of wealth from one group's hands to another, typically through force.

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>>129978335
More fascist architecture from Tripoli

It doesn't really work in a European context, it's too alien to the environment, but it's absolutely perfect for gleaming new cities silhouetted under the blue north African sky

>>129978617
National Socialism is not really socialist. Hitler privatized many state run businesses. It support calss collaboration as opposed to class struggle. Nazism is really just authoritarian ethno-centric welfare capitalism.

>>129974936
What about Mischlings in contemporary National Socialism? I believe this is a strong dividing line among the loosely connected NatSoc/WN community. From what I understand, in Nazi Germany half Jews were given citizenship status, and could be given Aryan status if they performed acts of valor for the German people, as opposed to full blood Jews who were not citizens.

I think a cohesive message will need to be broadcast that finds a balance between alt lite "le based Israel" and too much ideological purity that does not allow any Jewish admixture among the ranks. After all Rockwell allowed Mischlings who recognized the JQ to join his American Nazi Party.

>>129978617
>Nazism would lead to Communism

Found the historically illiterate retard. Nazism/Fascism and Communism are diametrically opposed forces. Just because both use authoritarianism does not in any way shape or form mean they are interchangeable or cohesive.