The absurdity without god

File: 1467356779104.jpg (52KB, 396x478px)

52KB, 396x478px

>>129866476
>why should a person be moral in a world without god?

It's called having feelings. Most people have them.

In short, you're retarded.

>>129866476

Been struggling with this for a while as an atheist. The secular argument is that we have evolved as social creatures to select for behavior that encourages cooperation and that as civilizations rose out of the feedback loop created from an ever expanding tent of what constituted in-group normative behavior, religions arose to enshrine metaphysically those behaviors deemed transcendent throughout the ages.

>>129866756
>It's called having feelings. Most people have them.
>In short, you're retarded.

>muh feelings

this is not an argument

Why should a persons 'feelings' give them incentive to be moral when their 'feeling's are irrelevant in the grand scheme of existence?

do you have anything else?

>>129866476
>no country for white people
>no language for white people
>no religion for white people
Something doesn't add up here

>>129866476

A world without YHWH is not a world without Gods.

>>129866476
Cavemen sitting round a fire , one of them breaks a leg the others share their resources till his leg heals because he helped them before.
No god needed.

>>129866476
Do you not reap the benefits of an orginized society ?

>>129867941
what are you implying?

>>129867761
So why did the caveman help them in the first place?

>>129866476
>nothing is of consequence
Except everything?

It's not that hard:
>if you're alive, you might as well want to live a good life
>it's far easier to live a good life in a good world
>a good world needs to be populated by good people
>good actions make good people
>if you want others to change their actions, change yours first

>>129867383
Feelings come from measurable chemical reactions in your brain.
Things like empathy, love, compassion, bravery, all come from how your brain is wired. That's why people with schizophrenia tend to lack empathy, because their brain does not work normally.
tl;dr your retarded.

not everyone is an unhinged psychopath who wants to fucking kill everyone but holds himself back because some ancient book said so

Why are so many people immoral, who *do* believe in god?

File: morals.jpg (11KB, 657x644px)

11KB, 657x644px

>>129866476
SPOOOOK

Read some Dostoevsky nigga.

For your bad actions you will end up in the gutter or in jail and not in hell. For good deed you will receive praise, recognition and earn respect of the peoples. How much more simple can this be ?

>>129868756
>Feelings come from measurable chemical reactions in your brain.
>Things like empathy, love, compassion, bravery, all come from how your brain is wired. That's why people with schizophrenia tend to lack empathy, because their brain does not work normally.

how is this of any relevancy to the question posed? if anything, you have validated my point more

your 'feelings' are nothing but chemicals and are of no consequence

File: skep_dog-244x300.jpg (7KB, 244x300px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 244x300px

>>129866476
most atheists have the moral intellect and ethical instinct of a sixteen year old with a case of beer at a prom.
the rest are jews

Because things like social control and law exist.
sage

>>129869249
Oh, so you're just completely retarded, then?

File: salt.jpg (46KB, 552x446px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 552x446px

>>129869594
cope

>>129869249
Holy fuck. This has to be a leaf with a proxy.
Morals come from how people feel about things, you massive faggot. These feelings are not just imaginary things, they are physical reactions happening in your brain.
If your brain is abnormal, your morality will not be in line with the majority of people with healthy, normal brains.

>Why should a person be moral in a world without god?

Depends on them, really. If you want to treat people like shit, be ready to have likely similar response.

>Nothing is of consequence
... No. In society or outside it, every decision you make has an outcome. If its good, its a 'reward' if its bad, a 'consequence'. This is not just a social construct. It's a natural response to a choice. Human's aren't the only once making choices. Every living organism makes choices. The difference is some think or act beyond what their instinct tells them to.

>The human race will go extinct.

Yes. It will. By our hands? maybe. By evolution? Possibly. We don't know for sure, but if our species live long enough it might evolve into a whole new one in our stead. Those successors aren't homo sapiens like us. But they did come from us.

>The Universe will ultimately end.

Science still can't tell man. Just loads of theories. I'm more worried about super radiation from outer space vaporizing our atmosphere and cooking us as though we are inside a microwave.

>Our actions are irrelevant.

Maybe. If you believe it to be, then for you it must be. If others believe it not to be, then it is not. Depends on preference and opinions since it varies on who you ask.

>Pure Evil or Good

Again, depends on who you ask..... and which country you are. Lots of varieties to this. But ultimately, if you don't believe in 'morality' then there is no Good or Evil. Just good or bad results from your actions.

>>129866476
Because morality boils down to protecting, fostering and creating life, and anyone who is intellectually curious should like to see how far evolution can take humanity, what heights it can reach.

>the universe will ultimately end so nothing matters
You could say the same as a Christian since the endgame in Christian theology is everyone who ever lived ends up holding hands in a big circle around God singing kumbayah on repeat for all enternity

>>129866476
Dumb ass thread. Humans are social animals for basic evolutionary utility. That's where moral infrastructure comes from. Religion is table-setting and also deals with the existential dread inherent to conscious beings.

>>129866476
>Why should a person be moral in a world without god? nothing is of consequence; the human race will go extinct and the universe will ultimately end. Our actions are so irrelevant, Pure evil or good.
Because its a world without God and to strive towards becoming more than human we should do good and even better. The futility of it all is another reason to. It is a baptism of fire.

>>129866756
Holy shit, you cracked the code! Hatred and bigotry only exist in people without feelings! Oppressive regimes and spectacular human rights violations only happen where people don't have feelings! Africa's poverty and general state of being completely fucked is because they don't have feelings!

Die in a fire leaf.

File: fridge001.jpg (295KB, 2032x1401px)

295KB, 2032x1401px

>>129866476
>"the human race will go extinct and the universe will ultimately end"

Cite your source for those plz

>>129868509
What if I'm only happy when I touch little boys ?

>>129866476
But is a person truly good if upon his decision hang the eternal reward of heaven and eternal punishment of hell?

The best answer I could find is self prezervation.
Or as Jordan B Peterson put it. Following the rules of the meta-game (of life) that does not lead to the degeneration of the infinity games (interactions between humans).

>>129871370

Guess he's referring to the heat death of the universe. Pretty much orthodox science.

Game Theory.

Because maybe humans can combine their effort in teamwork and leverage more advantage then were they to all go lone-wolf.

No Supernatural clause needed.

>>129866476
Because people want to work with other people who are good and reliable. God may not be real, but society is. And if you want to be part of society then you play your part.

>>129866756
sociopaths aren't retards.

>>129868459
Self interest. They relly on one another to survive.

>>129866476
do you want to be hurt, robbed, killed?
there you go

>>129866476
only retards need religion to understand the benefits of morality and ethics in society

File: barkingatnig.jpg (31KB, 457x469px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 457x469px

>>129871733
Yea i understand that is the "orthodox science." But, still not proven despite the fact that "smart" people theorize about it and publish it in BOOKS. But you have to ask yourself why the average Joe knows this "fact" and yet doesn't understand any basic details on how his cellphone works? One set of information is pushed more than the other and that's science

>>129868842
Humans will always put something in the "God" slot. You remove religion and it becomes marxism. A utopian ideology that will result in paradise, so anyone that opposes it wants others to suffer and is thus evil. Like 80% of athiests vote left in america. Not believing in God opens most people up to something much, much worse for everyone, even if athiests aren't randomly murdering people in the streets.

>>129866476
Only reasons to be moral are law and social consequences. The latter is slowly becoming irrelevant, so if you don't get caught there is no reason to act good.

>>129871488
By doing that you hurt someone. That someone usually has people looking after him and protecting him.
And because you hurt him they will hurt you back. And because we can relate to that someone we will join in on the lynch mob so that you won't get the chance to hurt someone else that we are connected to.

You also violated the NAP. Reee.

>>129866476
The wellspring of morality is culture, and belief in god is only so much culture.

Today, in Europe, Christians argue for mass immigration. Therefore they seek to destroy Western culture, and can no longer be seen as moral people. Merely socialist lapdogs.

>>129866476
Because your actions affect many people in your life including yourself and we're social animals. As simple as it can be.

>>129866476
Game theory

>>129866476
>Why should a person be moral in a world without god?

Because they're not retarded?

File: OP IS A FUCKING FAGGOT.gif (510KB, 480x228px) Image search: [Google]

510KB, 480x228px

>>129866476
You are your own master faggot why would one wish 4 some1 else to govern their life, even if God would be real I would defy that faggot as much as I can. Grow a backbone retard.

File: thereitis.jpg (145KB, 405x597px) Image search: [Google]

145KB, 405x597px

>>129866476
>>129866756

At certain points in life, you can either choose to be good or choose to be evil. That's your choice.

(Why should you be moral, the evil "one" whispered in his ear, while simultaneously claiming good is irrelevant and inconsequential).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDdI3X4sTzQ

>>129869150
But what if you reject the respect of people? Then the idea of you being "punished" is just an addition to your screwed world view and hatred of society.

>>129870507
So then life is basically relative?

>>129868756
Are you saying feelings are an actual argument? The we should debate based on feelings and who feels the strongest about something.
>>129869150
You'r an idiot, that's not what Doestoevsky says at all. In Crime and punishment he actually underlines the absurdity of a world without God. Raskolnikov gets away with murder, but then turns himself in to the police due to his consiousness.
>>129873370
> even if God would be real I would defy that faggot as much as I can
Now that's edgy.

File: i m.png (122KB, 361x370px) Image search: [Google]

122KB, 361x370px

>>129874886
Well I would do it just if he has something against me or my family(as long as he doesn't mess with me we can be bros), either way we can goo for a beer, would you join us?

>>129875624
>Well I would do it just if he has something against me or my family
What a dumb nigger.

File: oh god what the ....jpg (8KB, 201x200px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 201x200px

>>129875842
Would you be so kind to tell me why I am a "Nigger". Because he has all the "power" and it is useles to do something against him? I was that kind of useles bitch in the past but if I can do something about it I will for sure at least I can die or suffer without regrets even if it is for a second.

>>129876606
>Because he has all the "power" and it is useles to do something against him?
Partly, also because if an entity has absolute power and knowladge, he probably knows better than you. So going against God just to spite him is insane, and it's also something you wouldn't do.
>if I can do something about it
By deffinition you can't.
>I will for sure at least I can die or suffer without regrets
Sure you would. And I bet you would go through an eternity of suffering without regreting it.

>>129866476

Biological immortality is attainable.

Because morality, compassion and general positivity aren't the sole domain of religions. You can be atheist while understanding and appreciating Christianity cultural achievement throughout western democracies while disagreeing about the existence of gods.

Countries, families, ancestors... those are all worthwhile moral pillars if you decided to study them. As an atheist, I find that anyone who disregard all the goods from Christianity to be retarded.

>>129866476
you should feel bad when you do bad things you degenerate

>>129866476
I've watched craig debate, and honestly, he is a fucking clown.
If he is the best you've got christfags, you have no chance.

>>129868294
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

File: tfw u rember that good porn movie.jpg (7KB, 208x249px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 208x249px

>>129877331
And why do you say that he know better than me? Knows what is better for who? I do think that I know me better than everyone else so? Why do you assume that he is "good for you"? I don t buy this. Yes I would go trough "an eternity of suffering" without regreting it, this as long as just myself is the one paying not the ones that I love. Ma duc pe afara.

>>129877924
again, muh feels
Not an argument. By your reasoning psycopaths should go ahead and kill and rape is that's what they want. Or if someone gains pleasure by doing so they have no reason to restrain themselves. You'r just saying: don't be bad, unless you feel like it.

>>129866476
Craig likes to talk about objective morality, and how it can only exist if there is a god.
I ask this:
Is it obectively moral to help people in need of help?
If yes, then god is obectively immoral
If no, you are a fucking idiot
In summary, god is obvjectively immoral, and christianity is a fucking joke.

>>129866476
Why should I be moral for the promise of a white void where I remember nothing and suck some dude's ancient cock? What is moral about the promise of 72 virgins?

>Why should a person be moral in a world without god?
Religious people cannot be moral. Only atheists can act morally.

>>129867383

>Why should a persons 'feelings' give them incentive to be moral when their 'feeling's are irrelevant in the grand scheme of existence?
We are also irrelevant. Is it surprising that irrelevant things, namely feelings, indicate us what to do?
>do you have anything else?
No. Feelings is all you get.

>>129878156
The christian God is by deffinition all powerful all knowing and a loving God.
> I do think that I know me better than everyone else so?
Yah right, I bet you parents know that better than YOU, let alone God.

>>129878528
>Only atheists can act morally.
There's no such thing as morality for and atheist. What are you even talking about?

Because not behaving ethically makes life for everyone, including you, worse. If you want the highest quality of life for yourself, you need to behave ethically.

>>129866476
>Why should a person be moral in a world without god?

Practicality.

because I will kill you if you do not.

>>129866476
They wouldn't hence why you see things like abortion which would have been completely condemned in the past become the accepted position

>>129878415
Answer this you deluded christfags.

>>129878796
>>129878796
>There's no such thing as morality for and atheist. What are you even talking about?

religious people act without reason, they follow superstition, dogma. They cannot be moral. Atheists act rationally, and thus can be moral.

>>129878415
>Is it obectively moral to help people in need of help?

No because that's not enough information to make that judgment.

>>129874524
>what if you reject the respect of people?
Not possible. You try to supress it, it leaks out in a perverted form. Men who pretended to reject all the society projected hard on how society thinks they are gods and shit. Rejecting the respect of people can only be done by killing yourself literally.

>>129871964

>sociopaths aren't retards.

Some of them are, actually. Some of them are too stupid to understand and conform to civilized behavior.

>>129866756
More like "spirituality". I know it sounds stupid but people believing that the world is not only material are naturally more likely to be moral. Whatever they're part of a religion or not. Materalists however (people that believe that only matter exists) are literally the cancer of this world

File: learn.jpg (58KB, 700x542px)

58KB, 700x542px

>>129878577
No they don t cause I can chose myself what is good or bad for me.
>The christian God is by deffinition all powerful all knowing and a loving God.
Read the Old testament again.

>>129866476
Religion is a massive moneymaker and that's why it's still around today. God either doesn't exist or is one evil motherfucker.

>>129879495
Ok then, let me give you an example.
A man gets bitten by a venomous snake in the jungle. He will die in 5 hours, unless somebody helps him. Nobody is around, anyone who could help him are very far and there is no he can get there in time. God is the only one who could help him. God will not help him, and therefore he is obectively immoral.

>>129879605
Okay let me rephrase then.
What if a person desires no positive interactions with people for whatever reason. Then for him there is no point in being "moral" because he takes pleasure from having negative interactions with people.

>>129880355
That's idiotic. Good is not necessarily material good or comfort. That's just a petty and materialistic way of looking at things.

>>129880355
>God will not help him, and therefore he is obectively immoral.

That's not necessarily true since that works only on the premise that curing him of his venom poisoning would be helping him. Once you add the presumption of God being real into the equation that carries with it the assumption of heaven and so then God's actions or inactions can become validated on that man's entrance to heaven upon death. This is why trying to argue through hypotheticals isn't very effective.

So you've got it "objective" only if you assume not helping a man bitten by a snake is immoral and that God's inaction is not helping.

>>129880891
>it is not good, right or moral to help a dying man
And you fucking retards talk about morality. Christians are not moral, they are god fearing people, who would do anything just to get to heaven.

>>129866476
>(((human race)))
use human kind or species
deny our enemies language

>>129866476
Because we're not sociopaths and don't need a god to act as our moral compass. Christcucks are starting to get pathetic.

>>129879399
What a drooling idiot.
First of all, there is literally no such thing as morality for atheists. The stuff you might call morality is not like the christian understanding, as a principle that is above yourself.For you morality is just feels. Also, atheist """"morality"""" is subjective, you can have two atheists with opposite moral systems.
And reason has nothing to do with morality, reason doesn't tell you HOW you should act, just how to get from point A to point B in the best manner, but it doesn't set goals for you.

>>129881058
>it is not objectively moral to not help a dying man, because he will get to heaven
There you go, christians at it again
You christians are terrible people. Even though you claim to be the ones moral.

>>129881059
Death and suffering are not evil you drooling idiot. In fact, they can be helpull to get closer to God, wich is the purpose of existance. Suffering in this short life means nothing compared to eternity.

>>129880590
If society sees him as immoral, he will be subjected to torture. He will have to be moral to survive. Or to catch his victims off guard, otherwise they will run away and he will not have the negative interactions and he will be sad.

>>129881452
I'm not Christian and that's not an argument. You're trying desperately not to have nuance or detail in this discussion.

>>129880590
I believe that's a sociopath...

>>129866476
People have reasons to not be shitbags even if there are no gods.
One is, what kind of sick fucks take pleasure in making others suffer?
Another is, who wants to be remembered for being a shitbag?
No one should.
Live for the only life you know for certain you will ever have, and it is not hard to tell right from wrong, strengthening from weakening, accuracy from falsehood.
And it doesn't take believe in a magical dead jew on a stick to have a conscience.

>>129881603
millennials don't understand the concept of deferred gratification it's pointless explaining it to them

>>129881603
>death and suffering are objectively moral
THERE YOU GO. You should be locked up.
You just stated that death and suffering are not bad things. How the fuck do you even dare to talk about morality, when you yourself are a terrible person?

>>129866476
Why should I do the right thing? No reason at all. I realize the futility of my good behavior but I continue nonetheless because of my personal convictions.

Morality is derived from a person's actions, not the other way.
An action is a declaration of desired treatment.
If you try to kill someone, you are basically saying "I'm fine with killing". For this reason it is ok to kill in self defence, because you give them permission to kill you.

>>129881976
>You just stated that death and suffering are not bad things. How the fuck do you even dare to talk about morality, when you yourself are a terrible person?
Bingo was his namo

>atheists
Morality doesn't need god. You should treat others the way you would want to be treated. Societies should treat everyone fairly, help each other, and in doing so achieve most benefit for everyone
>Christians
Be good because a LOVING god will punish you for all eternity for being bad. Not because you are a good person, and care about what others feel or need, but because some fag with no evidence tells you to do so.

Who is moral again?

File: 1494207697909.png (179KB, 523x900px)

179KB, 523x900px

>>129866476
For the good of his people. To build something strong and beautiful that will provide a good life for his posterity. To create, to procreate, to proliferate.

It's not that hard, faggots. If you feel like you want to go full psycho and only the fear of hell could stop you, THAT'S the problem, you degenerate fuck.

>>129882528
Atheists think abortion is morally acceptable so I wouldn't say them

>>129881605
So basically "The Stranger"

>>129881976
>death and suffering are objectively moral
I never said that you lying cunt. They can be moral in some cases, since they can get us closer to God, doesn't mean we should allow people to suffer. But death and suffering are innevitable, so you can't get away without commiting these. If someone attacks you or your fammily the result is death and suffering no matter what you choose to do, resist or not.
Also, there's no such thing as objective morality in the atheist view.

>>129866476
>Why should a person be moral in a world without god?

I honestly don't understand this point of view. The answer seems very obvious to me that a person should be moral because it's in our best interest to get along with other people. Morality is the only way of doing that.

I'm an atheist and I don't think I have it all figured out, but I strongly believe that this concept of requiring a father-like deity figure who has the capacity of knowing the supreme truth of right and wrong is completely childish. It should be clear to anyone who has ever lived in a foreign country that there are a lot of aspects of morality that ARE arbitrary. I wouldn't say morality is ever relative, but I think "arbitrary" is a suitable description. There is absolutely nothing universal about calling someone you don't know very well by their first or last name, but if you do it the wrong way in some countries, you will offend people.

That doesn't mean that the answers to the big questions have to change from culture to culture. Murder is wrong everywhere. Stealing is wrong everywhere. Those are universals because we all have the same inherent human, and in some cases animal, nature. If you slaughter a chicken in front of other chickens, then the other chickens will run away from you when you try to catch another one for your next meal because obviously they can't continue to live around an animal that kills them. If you try to take a dog's food while it's eating, it may bite you because obviously it needs the food to live. On the other hand, animals probably wouldn't have any long-term consequences with rape, but women (and men) get deep emotional trauma from rape because they have to live with any children that are conceived from a father who may abandon them. Humans aren't "just animals," but we are a kind of animal that has a lot of inherent impulses, instincts and probably cultural tendencies that are universal with other humans. Religious people don't want to accept this.

>>129882634
>and only the fear of hell could stop you,
If it takes the fear of something imaginary to stop a person from doing something terrible, that person belongs in a mental hospital, in a straight jacket, in a rubber room.

Doing the right thing makes you feel good. The heaps of dopamine reward systems built up for doing good things.

The only way to truly transcend is lead a good life. Follow Christ example God or no God it's a great example.

Do unto others and you would have them do unto to you.

>>129882650
No, the only belief atheists have is that's there is no god. Anything beyond that is simply false. I'm an atheist and I believe abortion is morally wrong.

>>129883015
Millions of people need to be sectioned then because they believe state sanctioned murder of babies is acceptable

>>129882650
>Atheists think abortion is morally acceptable
Atheism and abortion support have nothing to do with each other.
That said, I myself don't see anything wrong with abortion.
There are good reason why people would want to abort a child. Not everyone got pregnant intentionaly, and can't afford to raise a child.
>but its murded
If abortion is murder, then swallowing is canibalism. The child hasn't even formed completely yet. It's not really alive yet.

>>129881976
Don't you get it? The fact that someone (i.e. an individual, a subject) says something is objective is ironic as fuck. Maybe there is an objective morality, but it surely can't be percieved directly by subjective beings. We need a measure of some kind, like the kg or the meter to evaluate morality objectively, as we value weight or length.

>>129883239
>That said, I myself don't see anything wrong with abortion.
No of course not because thanks to your moral relativism you don't have to see anything wrong with it

>>129882817
>since they can get us closer to God
LITERALLY NO PROOF OF THAT
zero. nill. nothing.

>>129883352
I gave my reason why. Learn to read ahmed.

>>129881713
>I believe that's a sociopath...
Let's say that's true then what reason do Sociopaths, Narcissist or anyone with the slightest tinge of being mentally unstable have to be "moral". If someone doesn't have a moral compass that points "True North" why follow True North? The only answer I can think of is God but if God doesn't exist Law sure as hell won't stop them.

Think of the millions of potential humans you are all murdering every time you jack off or blow a load in a condom rather than cum inside your chick's pussy.
You all are worse than Hitler. FASCISTS!

>>129883467
There is more evidence of God than of anything else. Read the Bible, The lives of Saints or any other of the thousands of accounts, many of them contemporary. And it's not just christian writings that atest the existance of the supernatural.

>>129883587
Yes your reason why is that you've justified to yourself that murder in some circumstances is acceptable which demonstrates clearly that you're not a moral person

>>129878415
Put your flag back on, leaf.

>>129867383
>'feeling's are irrelevant in the grand scheme of existence?
no they are not, without feelings there is no meaning
what's more important than meaning?

>>129866476
>Why should a person be moral in a world without god?

God is the ceiling and conglomerate of our highest imaginable ideals, of everything that is good and perfect. if you take that all away, morals suddenly have no guideline except opportunistic subjectivism.

a life without faith is a wasted life because you will start doing things only in the limelight of memento mori and that is treadful and sucks.
believing in god and an afterlife helps your emotional composure and your spiritual comfort and you'll be more likely to help other people as well instead of being in a spiritual limbo or dead-end such as most atheists.

>>129883740
When we wage war against evil we must kill, isn't that justified? Also you didn't address my other post in which I noted that you literally do not understand the beliefs of atheists.

>>129866476
>Why should a person be moral in a world without god?
just because you don't know the answer doesn't mean there is no answer

File: 150521 jimin AOA 안대 지민 흔들려 동아방송대 축제 직캠 00.01.24-00.01.30.webm (2MB, 394x700px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 394x700px

>>129866476

>people are only moral because of a sky hitler

religious fags actually believe this shit

morality is a survival mechanism. our species wouldn't survive if we are all degenerates who killed and raped each toher

>>129883722
If there was evidence of god, then you wouldn't need to believe in god, but accept it.
Go on, give some evidence, enlighten me with your jew on a stick religion.

>>129872728
>and social consequences
>becoming irrelevant

Until the day when you can live 100% off the grid, self-sufficiently, outside of the borders of any nation, and never relying on another human for anything else ever (spoiler: that will never happen), social consequences will never become irrelevant.

>>129866476

Because the spirit is eternal, regardless of whether or not there is some divine overloard (there isn't) to watch over us.

It's a scared, unintelligent and sophomoric concept to rely fully upon the necessity of a "God" existing in order to fulfill the idea that WE can only exist together with this deity.

Learn spiritualism. Read the Emerald Tablets of Thoth, for starters.

The universe is an egg, and we're in the 5th ring of 7 rings that spread outward from the middle. Think of a tree trunk, we're in that 5th ring of existence, and this ring is the only one that a material being can exist.

Everything else is just creational energy.

Feel privileged that you spent time in the material world in order to feel the sensations of the flesh given life.

You are part of the whole of creation, and when you die you return back to the collective. An individual mind part of the whole.

>>129883957

we were all degenerates*

>>129883902
What has killing got to do with murder? You can't proclaim yourself a moral person and then try and justify something that's objectively immoral

It amazes me how many different kinds of answers people have posted in this thread.

>>129883957
>that eyepatch
hnnnnnng

>>129883740
>murder in some circumstances is acceptable
Because it is.
Murdering somebody who murders other people for no reason is acceptable for example.

>>129882652
All that started from an assumption that isn't true. Otherwise serial killers wouldn't leave their signatures. Even they want their effort to be appreciated. Psychopaths and sociopaths also do. Sadists also show power to their victim. I can not think of any type of person that does bad things without craving for respect in his own way

>>129883851
>muh imaginary magical dead jew on a stick enlightens me
Get gassed

>>129870460
>Morals come from how people feel about things, you massive faggot. These feelings are not just imaginary things, they are physical reactions happening in your brain.
>If your brain is abnormal, your morality will not be in line with the majority of people with healthy, normal brains.

Do you think that calling someone a "massive faggot" is moral just because you feel better when you do it?

>>129884065
Oh so you try to absolve yourself of guilt by saying that, "well my brand of killing isn't recognized as murder by the authorities so I'm clean."

>>129883957
>morality is a survival mechanism. our species wouldn't survive if we are all degenerates who killed and raped each toher
That's true, but that's an argument in the favour of God. I am not the species, I am an individual so why should I care or even sacrifice for the species, when it all dies with me in the end, from the atheist perspective.
You are not consistent in your worldview.

>>129884193
That's not murder you quite clearly don't understand the definition

>>129866476
To deny that God created all this is to be so arrogant as to claim knowledge of the unknown and certainty that everything came from nothing

I think God likely exists and I wish to learn from him rather than antigod who from what I can tell has less to teach

>>129884167
You do realize that means she probably just got eyelid surgery, right? Pirate clothing didn't suddenly just become fashionable in Korea.

>>129884364
The Bible says thou shalt not kill not thou shalt not murder.

>>129884301
I don't need to absolve myself of any guilt because any semi-educated person knows that the definition of murder isn't any form of killing

>>129883239
You should look up what an aborted fetus looks like because it sounds like you fell for the bundle of cells meme. It looks like a tiny human.

>Why should a person be moral in a world without god?
Because he can be.

>>129883989
>If there was evidence of god, then you wouldn't need to believe in god, but accept it.
Not true, evidence is not mathematicall proof. In fact nothing else is, and from an empirical point of view you can't be certain of anything.
You belive in history right, so you belive historical accounts. Why not belive in God, since there are more accounts supporting His existance than anything else.

>>129884364
What I'm saying is that abortion being murder doesn't change a thing, it's still moral.
I've given my reasons why, but you probably ignored everything anyway.

>>129884401
You don't think it's arrogant to make assertions about the existence of a being and its entire canon of existence that you can neither see, measure or report any empirical evidence about?

>>129884559
You're objectively wrong. You're literally lying. That's sinful. The fact is that murder is killing and that killing is wrong according to the Bible. Therefore, either you're not allowed to wage war on evil, or to do so you must engage in evil yourself.

>>129884533
No it says thou shalt not murder it's just cretins like you that have taken it upon yourself to mistranslate it to win arguments

>>129879705
Certain people gravitate towards certain things. It's why a non-religious person can be a paragon of good while a religious person can go out and kill hundreds of people. The common man needs some sort of compass and religion fills that role but to say that without god we'd devolve into demons is retarded.

Do people think we had the same morals or religious believes, if any, when mankind was first created? Our morals are different, especially across culture, than they were simply hundreds of years ago. A world without god will never be possible, it's against human nature. The god will just not be any of the major religions. Like how the godless left fill the void with dogmatic political belief or the entire thing that was Atheist+. Humans will find something to give meaning to their lives, whether that's due to sapience or human nature is unknown.

TL;DR: OP is a faggot and made a thinly veiled shitposting thread for (you)'s due to his 1st grade level nihilism post.

>>129884711
It's moral relative to you but objectively it's immoral and you can't accept the fact that you're an immoral person because that debunks your whole argument

>>129884602
>it looks like a tiny human
So what? Does it think? Does it feel? Does it understand? It doesn't. And that is what I mean by "not really alive".

>>129884794
Dude it literally says thou shalt not kill. You are literally either lying or are just misinformed.

>>129884903
>objectively it's immoral
this is probably the third time you are saying this, and yet still no real argument why.
Please make an argument.

File: [Pyramid].jpg (124KB, 1024x819px) Image search: [Google]

124KB, 1024x819px

>>129866476

If the definition of a "God" is a creator & destroyer with incredible abilities, then Humans & any intelligent civilization creating life certainly would be considered "Gods".

http://archive.4plebs.org/_/search/subject/knowledge%20bomb/username/anonymous5/tripcode/%21%219O2tecpDHQ6/

>>129884788
Do you think that self-defense is murder? Is it murder when I'm driving a car and somebody on the sidewalk accidentally falls in front of me?

You sound like you have lived a profoundly sheltered life where you were not exposed to the harsh reality that sometimes people die by other people's hands in life, and it's not always intentional or malicious.

File: 12 weeks.gif (3MB, 442x366px)

3MB, 442x366px

>>129884912
Well, animals feel when they'r taken to the slaughter house, do you object to their killing?

>>129866476
Society brings comforts and violating those rules removes us from society, thus lowering comfort.

>>129885103
That is called a translation. Are you atheists that stupid that you don't know what a translation is? You do this so many times it's unreal

>>129867383

The grand scheme of existence is irrelevant as far as people are concerned.

>>129884708
>You belive in history right, so you belive historical accounts
Some history has real evidence, some doesn't.
Why are you putting words in my mouth? I don't believe all of history.

>>129884207
>I can not think of any type of person that does bad things without craving for respect in his own way.
I think that's where we disagree. There are tons of bad people who do bad things without craving respect. I don't think the need for respect is an inherent human nature. But the idea of actually knowing a person who does bad thinks without craving respect is circular logic. Because making themselves known would mean they crave respect so they have to stay unknown. Anonymous if you will :^)

>>129884307

The morality is hardwired into the human mind. Even people who call themselves "individualists" are not all egotists(christian libertarians) as you are implying and egotists tend to not be sociopaths or psychopaths. how many people have objectivists killed?

Even moral nihilists who claim there is no objective morality believes in a form of morality. if someone stole his tv, he would call the police to right the wrong done to him

File: 1469041667823.jpg (80KB, 520x750px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 520x750px

>>129866476

>implying god is stopping religious people from being fucked up

morals are intersubjective contracts between members of society

with or without god, we will do evil things. So whats the point of believing he exists again?

>>129885173
By "feel" I didn't mean as in feel pain. I meant feelings, like love, or hate.
Animal slaughter is something I haven't given much thought. I can't really answer that.

All these people saying that it has anything to do with group dynamics or whatever, how it benefits the group to be good and so that's why they do it.

Totally wrong. Belief in God and belief in morality are both simply ethical choices at heart. You can literally choose to believe in something so strongly that you would die for it. It's called ideology. Religion just allows a person to structure these beliefs more easily and effectively.

God is a meme that makes ethical choices for people who aren't smart enough or haven't thought enough to make their own.

Death to theocracy!

>>129885385
>Some history has real evidence, some doesn't.
Actually, most historical evidence is just written sources. Historians decide what is real and what not based on plausability. Considering the overwelming ammount of evidence for God, it's irrational to dismiss the likelyhood of His existance.

>>129885173
i think what matter here is the level of consciousness.
A fetus is not conscious
Animals are not conscious, they are walking eating machines.

>>129866476
its not about god punishing you its about other people not putting up with your shit if your to annoying

the boogie man is less effective than a angry mob at discouraging behavior. you start being a hungry nigger and i will grab my pitch fork and my friends will grab their torches and you will have 2 options. leave or die

File: 1486869181178.jpg (34KB, 300x259px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 300x259px

>>129885825
>Considering the overwelming ammount of evidence for God
>god
>overwhelming amount of evidence

>>129866476
>be Christian
>Gang rapes a thousand babies
>"No big deal as long as you repent!"

What is all this? As someone who doesn't believe in free will, much less an omniscient being who grants it, I don't think anyone has a say in their "morality".

That being said, for all you willtards out there, morality is like choosing your difficulty setting. Being a good person is more rewarding because it's more difficult. The less you waver from your desired boundaries, the tougher things are, the more rewarding the outcome. Those who made their fortune through a loose moral structure a less fulfilled then those who did so under a stricter rule set.

>>129886155
Your selective dismissal of written accounts doesn't amount to a lack of evidence

>>129886269
your lack of evidence for a supreme being that cares if you are gay or not is laughable

>>129868459
We're tribal beings by nature; the community/tribe comes together to care for the injured and infirm in our tribe.
It's ensured our survival for millenia.

>>129886410
Again that's your selective dismissal which isn't an argument

>>129866476
Moral has aesthetic conditions. You don't need god, your need beauty

>>129885502
>The morality is hardwired into the human mind. Even people who call themselves "individualists" are not all egotists
>Even moral nihilists who claim there is no objective morality believes in a form of morality.
I agree, but that's because they'r idiotic sheep and just go along with the flow. Those people are literally insane, because they don't have a consistent worldview and lie to themselves out of comfort. They say there's no morality but there is morality, just because they can't face the self destructive nature of the atheist worldview.
>>129885632
>By "feel" I didn't mean as in feel pain. I meant feelings, like love, or hate.
Ok, but why, who are you to decide that killing something that feels phisical pain is ok, but something that has emotions is not. Muh feels is not an argument. Can you prove to me that it's right to kill a fetus that only feel phisical pain, but not a person because they have emotions?

>>129886269
>written accounts
Written accounts, meaning, not one disciple wrote anything down. But rather, people began writing the "gospels according to..." years after "eyewitness accounts" occurred. Approximately 40 to 50 years after.
Start writing shit down half a century after it supposedly happened.
Certainly beats the jews in how they waited about a thousand years before bothering to write shit down.
How very convenient.

File: 1496351878572.png (359KB, 457x675px) Image search: [Google]

359KB, 457x675px

>>129883015
I guess I should mostly expand on this. Speaking to /pol/acks, I speak esoterically. To initiates. Believing in God is pleb-tier.

That said, the masses need something like that, a noble lie to keep them in line. The average person cannot handle the truth (nihilism) and its consequence (freedom). Hence the esoteric/exoteric distinction found in all Traditional societies. One path for Joe Sixpack, one path for men capable of insight.

The genius of Nazism is that it reestablishes this Traditional structure. Christianity for the normies and Nietzschean creative nihilism for the elite.

We know that Middle Americans are overwhelmingly Christian and will not get uber tomorrow. But they have race-feeling, and they have morals. They will form the basis of any White awakening. So we need to make a public peace with Christianity. Whiteness comes first, but Christianity is acceptable. "Ours is a Christian movement." Wink wink.

>>129885652
>All these people saying that it has anything to do with group dynamics or whatever, how it benefits the group to be good and so that's why they do it.
>Totally wrong.

1) I need to eat and drink to live; therefore, I search for food and water.
2) I need to be warm at night in order to live; therefore, I sleep under a roof in a bed.
3) I need to interact with other people in order to get food, water and housing; therefore, I act morally.
What's wrong with this?

>Belief in God and belief in morality are both simply ethical choices at heart.
Define "ethical choice." Isn't it a necessity to act morally if the consequence for not doing so is that you won't be able to continue living around other people in the future, have children or carry on your species? There appears, to me, to be an evolutionary pressure to positively select people with the most moral and social impulses to have children and succeed in resource gathering.

>You can literally choose to believe in something so strongly that you would die for it. It's called ideology. Religion just allows a person to structure these beliefs more easily and effectively.
>God is a meme that makes ethical choices for people who aren't smart enough or haven't thought enough to make their own.
I think that the cause and effect are mixed up here. Many people are used to assuming that religion gives rise to morality in people, but maybe morality gave rise to religion. The need for people to act morally might have been so strong and so deeply embedded in people's minds that they needed to invent excuses to act in the way that they *knew* was right.

>>129878415
Why is it so moral to help him? What if his children could be the cause of an objective disaster? What if he's 'evil'?

>>129866476
Efficient use of strategies found using humanity as a massive system of parallel computers to find the "fittest" meme.
Basically game theory.

>>129886155
Like I said before, there is more evidence of God than anything else. Why do you dismiss all of that but not the historical sources for say, the existance of Caesar Augustus? There is much more evidence for God than there is for Augustus.

>>129886712
I don't think you've ever read the bible so probably wise not to comment

>>129883957
And that superior morality came from where? Without religion we obviously rape and kill people since it happens

>>129866476
most whites are naturally good. subhumans though need a religion to guide them. they're worse than animals.

>>129885307
source

>>129886712
The evidence for God is not just the Bible, that's less than 0.01% of it. I'm talking about miracles and such, there are many, even contemporary accounts of such things.

>>129887123
Not true, paganism has homosexuality in it and we were also niggery sometimes, see the Roman degeneracy.

>>129866476

Well some of the most Godless places in the world, namely North West Europe have the lowest crime rates in the world. And devout believers in God from the middle east commit disproportionate amounts of crime in comparison.

So it seems that there is a variable involved that is more important than religion. I wonder what it could be? Hmmmmmm

>>129878415
Yes, moral systems are objective, that's the entire fucking point of basing value judgements on moral systems instead of base instinct.

>>129887220
Historical records of Jesus for example were written by people who were born years after the the time of Jesus.

Get BTFOed by Varg, christcuck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjEqoltgSQE

>>129886745
>The average person cannot handle the truth
>a noble lie to keep them in line.
They have playstations, weed and slutty STD ridden cumdumpsters they can abuse for a night and throw away like a used condom for that.

>>129885977
Define "conscious." There are lots of adults who go through life without thinking, almost completely on auto-pilot, nearly zombie-like. Then explain why you think consciousness matters for a being to have human rights. Do people in comas lose their human rights? Do we all lose our human rights when we go to sleep? I'd expect that most people in comas or asleep will wake up and become conscious again in the future. Wouldn't you expect a fetus to grow up and become conscious in the future? What's the difference?

A critical difference between a fetus and a grown rhino that you are missing, for example, is that the fetus has the capacity to become a human adult that contributes to human society and passes on human DNA to his children. A fetus may not have the capacity to engage in human society at the moment - neither does a 3 year old child - but he will assuredly grow and be able to do it in the future. The rhino can never hope to do any of those things.

>>129886919
And I wonder how much it would line up with Christian morality.

>>129887429
I don't know why you said that right after I just pointed out the Bible is a small part of the evidence. Literally why?

>>129887483
Yes immoral endeavours which have become prevalent in a post-God society

File: 1450925820347.gif (290KB, 213x109px) Image search: [Google]

290KB, 213x109px

>>129866476
>nothing is of consequence;
its called prison

>>129887292
And those Godless places are full of degeneracy, how are you natsoc?

>>129886955
Cross reference the bible with itself.
Read what biblical scholars have written about the bible.
Copies of copies of copies... random inserted forgeries here and there.
I even met with a biblical scholar just to pick his brain on this.
You know nothing child.

>>129866476
Crime, and greed.

>>129887259
Rome was multi-ethnical empire, that's why.

>>129887220
Yes, like David Koresh, blood moons not predicting apocalypses, people going into convulsions at ridiculous sermons. It's all very entertaining.

>>129887517
Your talk about comas made me think about life support. It's very strange the cutoff for when abortion is "ok" be determined by when the child can survive outside of the womb. We don't place that onus on adults.

>>129887827
>You know nothing child.
Oh dear how petulant of you

>>129888032
I don't know who that is. Read Othrodox literature, and the lives and miracles of Saints.

>>129887954
No I'm talking about the white Romans you cherry picker, the ones who had sex slaves like mudslimes, held gladiator fights and persecuted Christians.

File: dot.jpg (203KB, 454x400px) Image search: [Google]

203KB, 454x400px

Because I don't want to go to jail, plus I prefer having a social life and a job.

STUMPED

>>129866476
>What is empathy?
If you go around murdering and stealing it's going to bite you in the ass. Morals have nothing to do with magic.

>>129888399
Not when a depraved society decides theft isn't as important of an issue as it once was as is becoming the case in my country

>>129866476
>Why should a person be moral in a world without god?
because most healthy people do not get pleasure from causing pain to others.
because most healthy people want friendship, cooperation and peace with those they live with.
if you are too stupid to realize these things and act accordingly no amount of religion will cure you.

>>129887669
Because evidence outside the Bible is shaky and weak. As exemplified.

>>129887669
Evidence of fraud would be the Noah flood myth being written about a thousand years prior by the those who wrote the Epic of Gilgamesh for their own dogma.
It would be the rib trope being re-purposed and altered (Ninhursag using Enki's rib for creation...) to be something about Yahweh creating Eve out of Adam's rib.
Total, retarded plagiarism.

>>129884602
Technological progress is far more important than human life. You fell for the muh feels meme

File: 1496175280150.jpg (202KB, 1024x681px)

202KB, 1024x681px

>>129887483
I agree that bread and circuses are the way to go for true plebs, that is to say, dusky plebs.

I'm talking about GOP-voting, truck-driving, hard-working, married blue- and even white-collar Whites spending their weekends at kids' wrestling tournaments in places like Oklahoma and Ohio. They're good people with good genes and they need to be part of a White nation. But they're not all going to trade their Bibles for Thus Spake Zarathustra. White Nationalism needs to be non-Christian in its essence but Christ-friendly.

>>129885204
The newer translations changed it to murder you snaggletoothed retard.

>>129866476
>universe will ultimately end
What makes you think that? Did Black Science man tell you that in a PBS special?

>>129889152
You shall not murder (Hebrew: לֹא תִּרְצָח lo tirṣaḥ)
Did you really waste half an hour on that?

>>129888291
Thing is, who decides what is worthy to jail for?
>>129888399
I'll invoke muh butterfly effect here, why are those so wrong? Maybe you're worthy of the object if you steal it, the victi, shouldn't get emotional as that is irrational. Maybe I need it more? What if the killing is lawful in some way?
>>129888749
This was not the case at all before Christianity.

>>129889017
>White Nationalism needs to be non-Christian in its essence but Christ-friendly.
That would be interesting to see play out to say the least. A lot of Christians already know very little about their own dogma, sources cited and whatnot. They are more enthralled with personality cults of pastors, pundits and politicians, and how those people purvey Christianity.
Seriously, if they read their books, they would be rabid communists. But instead Christianity is really just a political tool as you are stating.

>>129866476
if you only do good things for a ticket to paradise you are kind of an awful person

>>129888876
>>129888966
Personal tetimonies of people experiencing miracles is more solid than the Bible itself, wich contains metaphors. Read some contemporary miracles of Saints, or even the historical ones, accounts of miracles have been constant throughout history.

>Total, retarded plagiarism.
That's a biased view and I hope you realize it. It's plagiarism if you already belive the Bible is lying. If other cultures have accounts of a flood, and not just the middle eastern ones I belive even south and central american cultures do, that's more than anything evidence that the Bible is true. Since all these other guys also atest to it. The fact that it's written after means nothing, oral tradition was a thing.

>>129889569
No, you go to Heaven because you are good.

>>129889684
You shouldn't have to believe in miracles to believe in God, Jesus talked about this. Proving God's existence in the Christian form is impossible, as it should be.

>>129889177
>Did Black Science man
Black science man is more akin to a god than Jesus, Yahweh or the holy ghost that raped Mary ever will be. He knows the universe quite well, which is rather unique for a universe filled with lots of un-self aware nothingness and dust and gas.

>>129889883
>He knows the universe quite well
I'm sure that's what your teacher told you to think redditfriend

>>129889688
there are people that do good things without expecting a mansion in the clouds as reward

>>129889836
>You shouldn't have to believe in miracles to believe in God
kind of impossible to belive in God without beliving in miracles, since Jesus himself performed miracles.
>Proving God's existence in the Christian form is impossible, as it should be.
I agree that it's impossible to be sure of it 100% in the empirical sense, but it is irrational to dismiss the existane of God when there's so much evidence.

>>129866476
THIS IS NOT POLITICS

SAGE THIS SHIT

>>129889684
>Since all these other guys also atest to it.
That's the same excuse Mormon apologists use for explaining away their stolen, cut, copy and pasted (via woodcuts based on actual Egyptian burial scrolls) scriptures via the "book of Abraham."
>Oh look, it explains creation too, they must have been visited by Moroni too...
Hilarious reasoning there.
Rally it is more like Trivium ripping off Metallica and later period Death.
>Oh look, Metallica must have been inspired by what Trivium was inspired by too...
Fucking shit.

>>129886763

Well what we're really talking about is belief. Many animals do the same things that you're describing. To say that we're acting as pure utilitarians in our moral behaviour is untrue; people sacrifice themselves, not just for people they love, but because they believe that they have to. Now that can go as far as dying, undergoing torture, eternal shame (Judas), or it can just be little things. All that matters is that we recognise that we aren't really acting as utilitarians. Whether there's a reason for this developing based in evopsyche (which I'm sure there is) is besides the point, because we're doing it anyway.

I juxtapose morality and ethics completely. Ethics is just a kind of philosophy, and morality rejects philosophy. The ideal human develops his or her own sense of morality by means of ethical philosophy, bouncing between the two.

I have no idea about evopsyche with regards to morality, because it seems to me that despite having apparently evolved for utilitarian purposes, human beings are still by far the most sadistic and selfish species to ever exist. Okay, consciousness is going to presumably be a product of evolution, but without reducing the discussion down to banal, utilitarian perspectives, morality just doesn't fit very well into the discussion.

I'm parroting Zizek in most of this, obviously. I'll stop pretending they're my own ideas. Things believe for us. Canned laughter exists to laugh for us when we're too tired to even laugh. God and religion exists to think for us so that we don't have to even try to be moral. I don't think there needs to be any kind of cause/effect dualism. It's a very complicated subject.

>>129890351
>That's the same excuse Mormon apologists use for explaining away their stolen, cut, copy and pasted (via woodcuts based on actual Egyptian burial scrolls) scriptures via the "book of Abraham."
Mormons have an oral tradition dating back before the earlyest writings in history?
I don't get the rest of the shit you wrote.

>>129890144
how do we KNOW that they are good things

File: 1494896362300.jpg (132KB, 457x675px) Image search: [Google]

132KB, 457x675px

>>129889550
Mmm not sure about the communism part. Lot of quietest/apolitical stuff in the Gospels. Obey whoever happens to be in power, this world is fallen, Satan is the Prince of This World, all focus on the next world, etc.

And yeah the charismatic pastors doing self-help and the "prosperity Gospel" are lame but I still think the salient points of the Evangelical mindset are: 1. Afterlife 2. Repentance/Jesus-relationship 3. Restraint re: sex and drugs. Outside of Mormonism I know a lot of White communities are struggling with #3 but the churches still preach clean living and many people still achieve it.

The clean living part is essential. Nigger culture and drug use are Shlomo's greatest weapons atm. And spirituality needs to take its proper place back from that den of vipers, psychiatry, which is just a backdoor way to get us hooked on drugs. Oh, it's OK, goy. You have a prescription. The prie--ahem, experts know everything, trust them.

>>129890351
how did inorganic materials become organic

File: IMG_0277.jpg (97KB, 993x708px) Image search: [Google]

97KB, 993x708px

>>129889883
>He knows the universe quite well
Oh, sweetie, maybe you should try reading a book first before spouting of about topics you don't understand.

>>129890886
>an oral tradition dating back before the earlyest writings
That's the method of fraud that i am describing.
Hebrews wrote their stories around 400 BCE... claiming that parts of the stories took place over a thousand years prior.
But then again, the precursor to Hinduism is older than any of these religions so... yeah.

>>129891367
>That's the method of fraud that i am describing.
Can you proove it's fraud and not true?

>>129891179
>how did inorganic materials become organic
>Ermergeerrrrd! Nobody knows!!! That must mean GOD DID IT!!!

Guys, I just cannot bring myself to believe in God. I'm not saying God doesn't exist, however. I just can't wrap my head around theism.

>>129891562
It's simple.
The books in the bible make claims about the natural world.
Compare the claims it makes to what we know about the natural world and you will find that the bible's claims are false.
Start with Genesis and the creation myth. You will not need to go any further.

>>129866476
When the only bar of morality is how low the guy before stooped, then there is no limits to atheist degeneracy. Which is why every society that abandons God and embraces it eventually destroys its self.

>>129890886
The funniest end to these threads is when the religitards get tired of going "you don't have an argument with all of those facts!!" and start attacking each other. They always do, because they're so moral, peaceful, and full of divine purpose lol.

>>129890991
you don't need to know that.
you choose to do them because previous generation followed those rules based on their experiences and worked for them and maybe you even improve on them.

societies are based on an implicit social contract of doing our best not to screw each other because it was proven by time that it was a win-win strategy for most cases. there are other species that do the same and others than don't.

>>129891965
Ah I see, this circular argument again.
-God isn't real because ther's no evidence.
-But what about this evidence?
-Those people can not be trusted to provide evidence. They are crazy/lying because they belive in God. And beliving in God is crezy because there's no evidence.

>>129892225
We're currently living in your atheist utopia and so far things have just gone backwards

>>129892120
If this were true, and it's not, it would be because of idiot animals like you that can't even function without a fictional story that gives your meaningless, destructive life some purpose. It's insane how you fucking morons can't understand morality and self-control without a religion. You are the perfect example of tools that are controlled by others (cough, the Jews)

>>129892225
What are you talking about? The guy i responed to is not even a mormon, and he has no facts to disprove God.

>>129892551
>If this were true, and it's not
It's not true it's just that abortion, infidelity, fornication, drug abuse and so on and so on have become the accepted norm in the current atheist utopia

>>129891068
>Mmm not sure about the communism part.
Usually i start here:
>Matthew 19:24 "And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
And there's more stuff like the Marxist "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" coming right out of the bible:
>Acts 11:29: "Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea"
and
>Acts 4:35: "And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need."

Do you really need God to pat you on the back to do the right thing?

Actions that cause suffering to others for the sake of pure selfish gain are viewed as immoral in any religion of any civilization.

Theft, torture, murder are viewed as evil because they are disruptions of society.

Morality, in the base form that permits it to maintain stable societies, exists with or without God.

It is when we get in the specific, more obscure rules of the Bible that we find people straying from ''morality''.

>>129893096
inb4 selective scripture retardation ensues
>but muh gospel is capitalism

>>129893260
>It is when we get in the specific, more obscure rules of the Bible that we find people straying from ''morality''.
>Leviticus 24:16 "And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him"
inb4 "but muh gospel isn't sharia"
Oh, but by itself it is, Jesus came to fulfill ALL of God's laws, even that one.

>>129894315
Only someone completely ignorant to the subject wouldn't recognise that you're being disingenuous

>>129894315
That's the old covenant.

>>129894848
Disingenuous? How? I'm illustrating that the deity Yahweh is immoral by his own commands.

>>129884239
>Do you think that calling someone a "massive faggot" is moral just because you feel better when you do it?
no, but is a good way for describing dumbfucks like you and that kangaroo dicklover

>>129895027
> I'm illustrating that the deity Yahweh is immoral by his own commands.
That's so fucking idiotic.

>>129895027
No you're quoting from the Torah to try and make a point to the ignorant when anyone who has even basic levels of knowledge of the Bible can see right through you

>>129892551
>>129892754
The political Christian non-reaction to actual threats like their own want for theocracy in government, and their non-reaction and denial of global warming are great examples of this "moral" religious destruction.
Humanity will gas itself if it were up to these people. With greenhouse gasses.

>>129866476
Go around fucking over everyone you meet and see how far you get.

>>129895344
>denial of global warming
ding ding ding
spotted the redditfriend

god doesn't exist, who cares

>>129895315
Copies of copies of copies.
Look up John 8: 1-11. It is a total forgery, and for a while people wouldn't even include it. Not until the council of Trent decided to. None of the ancient Greek (first of the NT) NT scriptures included, and non skipped a beat due to lacking it.
Read your bible better child.

>>129895344
>and their non-reaction and denial of global warming are great examples of this "moral" religious destruction.
What a massive faggot, no wonder you'r an atheist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXxHfb66ZgM

>>129895677
>Read your bible better child.
Really shows the strength of your arguments when you have to resort to petulant insults based on age

>>129866476
I think in some family trees, that is, over a good handful of past generations up to the current generation of your family, they have replaced genuine love and affection for their relations with "the word of god". So they depend on following strict rules and guidelines laid out to them by some make believe people/idol, and lose out on any real human emotional development. It gets really bad in certain religions where they can "sin" and "repent" those sins and supposedly be forgiven.

>>129868756
Sorry pal, "feelings" are not universally "wired" the same in every person's brain. They are developed through interactions with your enviornment (other humans, animals, etc). "Normal" has nothing to do with it. We just happen to live in a heavily human populated world, where being social is an advantage to survival in most cases. So we tend to develop/"wire" our brains to focus on those areas that help us create connections with other humans (empathy, fear, bravery, herd mentality, etc).

>>129868459
Caveman 1 probably hurt his leg before, and upon seeing Caveman 2 going through the same pain/agony, he can empathize with said Caveman and so he helps to stop the pain. Just as likely Caveman 1 kills Caveman 2 though. Might be the best solution to ending the pain.

>>129866476
>Why should a person be moral in a world without god? nothing is of consequence
The way you act is always of consequence on the way others act. Having a soul... do you even understand what it means?

>>129897965
>Having a soul
Is only possible if God exists.

t. aussie autist

File: giphy.gif (97KB, 540x540px) Image search: [Google]

97KB, 540x540px

>>129866476
There's consequences.

>>129893096
1st verse refers to serving materialism only, being materialistic and having material are different.

2nd is just about sending the correct type of men to somewhere

3rd charity, not rationing or welfare. God doesn't want us to be lazy nogs

>>129899410
>Is only possible if God exists.
Gypo logic

>>129866476
Because cause - consequence effect. If you do something wrong, there is a big chance something bad will happen to you. And i don't mean it in some karme sence, but in "you live by the sword, die by the sword" sence.

>>129899410
No souls evolved according to natural selection

>>129897755
Assumptions going on here, 2 could have taken advantage of the situation
>>129897475
And those ethics were brought on by religion.
>>129896676
Heaven is for good people, no replacement happened, only strengthening

>>129868459
Because they can expect he and the rest will care for them. If some of them wouldn't do it, next time he is hurt they would probably let him die.

>>129895677
And Eccumenial Councils are completely fine as they serve to prevent heresy.

>>129900334
"Expect"

>>129894315
>Old Law is Christian law
Not this meme again.

>>129900517
Tribe (or society) is based on trust. And if some members don't seem trustworthy, it has consequences from them. Religion works in same way, if you break rules, you burn in hell, just here consequences appear in this word.

Religion iz just codification with addition of god, who works like panopticon, to ensure following of social rules, which proved to be necessary for survival.

>>129900005
>>129900200
A soul is something spiritual, not material.

>>129901088
Ah it's the gpyo fundamentalist doesn't understand how religion works meme, quality.

>>129901297
How can you reconcile the soul without the existance of God? Unless you'r like a buddhist or some such poo religion.

File: 1041_11.gif (63KB, 468x240px)

63KB, 468x240px

>>129866476
Nigga, you dumb

Christianity boiled down: "nice soul ya got there... It'd be a shame of Satan got hold of it".

>>129900009
And without an afterlife, youre more likely to chimp out less and work more to make your life better
Unless youre a nigger

>>129866476
Because being part of a social system that accepts you is beneficial to your quality of life.

>>129866756
Fpbp

>>129866476
Morals are just habits. You can be a creature of habit but sometimes you can be spontaneous and do whatever.

You can even change your habits/morals.

>>129900787
Does that mean bugerers get a pass?

File: abstract.gif (202KB, 325x325px) Image search: [Google]

202KB, 325x325px

>>129879939
>>129878577
so you will never reply to me again?

>>129866476
Because being moral is literally the only thing separating you from the beast.
Morality is nothing but the exercise of the intellect.

>>129901043
I agree, it's a great enforcement of positive trust, but in the situation you described that group could in fact compete with some other group, breaking trust. Wars still happen.

>>129903005
What?

>>129903503
Reply to what? If you think you know better than God you'r just delusional.
>read the old testament
A real Bible schoolar are you?

>>129904218
I believe your fairy tale book calls them sodomites.

>>129903698
So what does it matter if you only get to live this one life?

Existentialism exists for a reason. Just because a god probably doesn't exist doesn't mean you can't be a nice person.

>>129867357
>>129866476
You've both fallen for the Jew lie of meaninglessness. Tell me, if you don't believe there is a God why are you falling for the faith based narrative of meaninglessness/nihilism?

Nihilism literally begs the question in the same way an assertion that God exists begs the question. You're literally a failure if you call yourself an atheist and buy the nihilism meme.

>>129907129
even in the New Law they'd go to Hell

File: 1471405101398.jpg (1MB, 2121x1414px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2121x1414px

>>129901880
What is stopping me from being a God?

>>129907490
Religion exists for a reason. Just because existientialism exists doesn't mean you can be a nice person.

>>129907560
>Faith based narrative
The problem with your argument is that you are assuming that belief and disbelief require the same logic. It's a lot more to assert the unproven than to assert that the unproven doesn't exist.
>>129907838
I don't require religion to have empathy. My existence and interaction with society proves this.

>>129908312
Or, religion influencing society has influenced your morals.

>>129908945
Can you prove that religion developed morality?

>communist christians ITT

kek