/pol/ communism general

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How do you solve the problem of resource allocation without market forces?

How do you non-coercively apply your system, which, from the looks of it, requires total cooperation?

How do you prioritize the recipients of the system?

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>>129796884
I'm going to make a Liberal General /LG/


Tired of all this Nazi/Commie crap

Sup comrade. Everybody who is anti-communist has never read Das Kapital. Long live dialectical materialism!

YARR HARR!
THIS BE A PIRATE THREAD NOW!
HAND OVER THE DOUBLOONS OR ELSE YE WALK THE PLANK

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Hello gomrades! XDDDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of revolutionary socialism and gommunism.

Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.

Wat exagtly is gommunism according to gommies:

Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. XDDDD Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :DDDD To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liquidate you all lol. When capitalists run away we win and I kill you all. Eventually the functions of state cease and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people.https://www.gommies.gom/fug/https://www.gommies.gom/starve/

GL uses philosphy of gib and starve, see here:https://www.gommies.gom/ohfugme/

It is recommend you kill yourself so you can avoid starving.

Resources:https://www.gommies.gom/ohshid/https://www.gommies.gom/1984/https://www.gommies.gom/guck/https://www.gommies.gom/probaganda/https://www.gommies.gom/XDDDD/https://www.gommies.gom/wheresfood/https://www.gommies.gom/benis/

Da sdages of gommunism.

Sdage one Bourgers aren't allowed to vode :DDD but otherwise da system is digtadorshib of gommies. Everything is stole by digtadors and digtadors rule all.

Sdade two Withering All beeple who aren't digtador glass starve. XDDD Once glass disabears and we steal everything more beeple wither away. Bolice begome unnecessary as beeple are dead lol :DDDDD Central blanning begomes unnecessary begause sgarcity caused starving. Money is all ours.

Sdage three Gommunism. No beeple. No food. My money. Much benis.

>>129797308
KYS

seriously now, finish school and then come back ok? You sound like someone who JUST found out about communism and is overly enthusiastic and very, very naive.

ANY of your arguments are invalid since various forms of communism have been tried out since the 15th century and ALWAYS failed.

>>129797460

Lumpenprole!

>>129796884
We all know you're the same Spaniard who makes these threads.

We should also make retard general.

Just as good as communism general.

Sorry, dumb spic, but you can't hide behind a commie flag

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Give me one good reason why commuism does not work? Pro tip you can't,Check and mate.

>>129797205
Communism is far more plausible than anarcho-capitalism. Capitalism is in its final stages as AI replaces almost all jobs. Socialism is undoubtedly the future.

>>129796884

As a libertarian, I fully support your decision to be communist. In fact, I would like to offer you communists free helicopter rides in support.

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>>129799451
>ancap
>free
pick one

Check and mate

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>>129799978

Have a word with our sponsoring company please

>>129799403
So actually answer my questions instead of throwing around bullshit.

>>129800523
Sentient AI will allocate resources.

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>>129801049
But you have to understand that the AI must be programmed by someone, there needs to be a sense of morality imbued in the machine.

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WE HERE
WE TAKIN OVER

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>>129797205
>How do you solve the problem of resource allocation without market forces?
With sophisticated information technology in the vein of CyberSyn. Only now such a system would be 40 years more advanced.

Although in our lifetimes markets aren't what we really need to be worrying about, private property and the state are. Market socialism would do in the meantime.

>How do you non-coercively apply your system, which, from the looks of it, requires total cooperation?
We don't. All forms of communism on some level require force. Even ancoms have to acknowledge that revolution is force.

Unless you'e a communist anarcho-pacifist this isn't really a problem.

And capitalism also requires total co-operation.

>How do you prioritize the recipients of the system?
From each according to their ability, to each according to their need.

>>129796884
So are you the spaniard or are you the finn?

Fuck marxist leninists

Communism can work but It needs white unity. Communism is by far the perfect ideology for a society of intelligent, educated, hardworking people with Christian values. People who are intrinsically motivated to help thy neighbour and serve their community. The only race who understands these values are whites. White people will help each other for no material gain, they understand that there is strength in unity. Collectivisation makes us all stronger, in evolutionary terms 5 people are more likely to survive a lion attack than an individual. It is in our self interest as the white race to form strong bonds against other forces. Other races simply do not understand this advantage and are in constant conflict with themselves and others. Capitalism's only true benefit is it keeps these non-whites in line and is a motivation for socially isolated white individuals to serve society as a worker. In a communal communist society made of only whites with strong ties, communism will allow us to advance beyond our wildest dreams. All we gotta do is get rid of the mudslimes and kikes.

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>>129796884
commies cant handle Henry George

>>129803472
So those who are able are enslaved by the needy

>>129803628
It's the spainiard, this is his 2nd thread today.

>>129796884
>>129797308
>>129799088
>>129799397
>>129802558
>>129803472
Communism was, is and will always be Jewish.

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>>129796884

>>129804037
LOL. Sad bastard.

At this point there's no way he's not a paid shill.

>>129803780
>Other races simply do not understand this advantage and are in constant conflict with themselves and others
Europe was literally constantly at war for like a thousand years and all of the most destructive wars in all history have been white v white.

In order for communism to work the workers of the world need to unite indiscriminate of race.

>>129797593
never stop posting this

>>129804160
Abandon thread, don't give him the attention.

>>129803780
>Communism can work but It needs white unity.
Communism is internationalist. The Proletariat that must not be cucked by racialist ideals.

>>129803724
You anarchists are fucking retarded. Have fun being crushed again and again by outside imperial forces.

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>>129796884
Hello comrades!!

>>129804160
>At this point there's no way he's not a paid shill.
The OP generally posts several of these threads a day and usually abandons them immediately after posting. He's been doing this for weeks, if not months.
OP has no debating skills or arguments in favor of Communism that don't revolve around logical fallacies.

>>129796884
Just a friendly reminder that the only good commie is a dead one!
Also: Sage goes in ALL fields

>>129804371
>Communism is internationalist.
That's why it's anti-White ie Jewish.

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>>129804025
>Helping out people in need is slavery

Is the NHS slavery?

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>>129802558
Yes, comrade /pol/ is literally ours!!

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>>129804160
Eh, fuck it, might as well have some fun with this stupid spainiard.

>>129804475
Actually it's pro-everyone.

>if you don't want my race to have a safe-space you are against it.

>>129804187
Different white tribes vs other white tribes

Now they will be united against the subhuman hoards

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>>129804567
>>Helping out people in need is slavery
At the expense of other people (Communism) yes it is.

Pic related is true charity.

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Yay comrades

>>129804371
So communism is anti white.

>>129804371
Have fun being a bootlicker

>>129804686
>Actually it's pro-everyone.
At the expense of the White race and for the benefit of the Jewish race.

>>if you don't want my race to have a safe-space you are against it.
Non-Whites and anti-Whites (Jews included) have no place in White countries and no right to have any position in White countries.

You communists support everything that would destroy the White race.

>>129804686
Unless you are white

>>129797916
Thinking property is something more than a delusion is also naive and have it's terrible consequences

>>129796884
Can we National Socialist Join? We are not so different.

>>129804844
No, it has no preference for race. Communism at it's base is materialist, it has no need for petty idealism like race.

>>129804895
Have fun getting crushed by the capitalist powers when your revolution comes.

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>>129804686
>Pro-everyone
Nazis tend to be more pro-everyone than you faggots.

>>129805092
Fuck off faggot.

>>129804775
Okay, so when you're only helping out people of your nationality then it's not at anyone's expense (???) and it's not slavery.

But when you start helping out everyone suddenly it's slavery.

Explain to me the distinction beyond the fact that one is international and one isn't.

>>129804717
>Different white tribes vs other white tribes
Precisely, they weren't and have never been united. White people don't have a magic quality that makes them better at communism than other races.

>>129805205
>No, it has no preference for race.
>it has no need for petty idealism like race.
Thus it is inherently anti-White.

>Communism at it's base is materialist,
Thus it is inherently Jewish.

Daily reminder that the only real Marxist Leninist state on earth was Albania, all over forms of Communism are revisionist and also Anti-Communist

>>129797916
>ANY of your arguments are invalid since various forms of communism have been tried out since the 15th century and ALWAYS failed.
Are you retarded?

No, Communism as a political system can only be achieved through a sufficiently developed capitalism. The 15th century capitalism itself didn't even exist yet.

>>129805205
>Have fun getting crushed by the capitalist powers when your revolution comes.

Didnt even post this ironically

>>129805374
>Thus it is inherently anti-White.
No. It favors no race.

>Thus it is inherently Jewish.
No. It's not materialist in the sense of consumerism. It's materialist in the sense that blind dogmatic idealism such as race or religion have no effect on society. Only the material conditions do.

>>129805289
>Delusional faggot who cannot comes to terms with reality.

Real communism has only ever existed in Albania.

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>>129796884
Daily reminder that there has never been a successful communist society.

A spectre is haunting 4chan — the spectre of communism. All the newfags have entered into a holy alliance to exorcise this spectre: Lolbertarians and Ancaps, Nazis and Ledditors, Leaf Radicals and German Turkish-spies.

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>>129796884

Communism is such a shit ideology, not even ISIS would touch it

>>129805338
>Okay, so when you're only helping out people of your nationality then it's not at anyone's expense (???) and it's not slavery.
Correct because it is not forced by the state. You would help out your race because you've been instilled with those values from birth. aka National Socialism.

Instead of having everything of your taken by the state and given to everyone else (after the state takes its large share) and not even enough to thrive aka Communism.

>But when you start helping out everyone suddenly it's slavery.
When you force people to "help" others or face the gulags it's slavery.

>Explain to me the distinction beyond the fact that one is international and one isn't.
Done.

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>>129803472
>CyberSyn
>Le star trek room of communism
Cybersyn is just another example of communist lunacy, thinking a room with video call technology will allow you to control an economy of millions of people.
Care to elaborate this technology? Can you prove you are not delusional?

>With sophisticated information technology
That's the type of answer a child would give. Instead of answering the question, you answer with a non-logical baseless assertion. You can mail the socialist geniuses that claim they can make a magical system like that all day, and they will not give you a congruent answer.

How do you enforce "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need." in a stateless society?
If "to each according to their need" what incentive is there to maximize your "ability"? You will just get poor people.

>>129805381
>>129805619
Marxism-Leninism never truly existed. The USSR and the Eastern Bloc were not genuine Proletarian Dictatorships.

>>129805338
Except we do when we are surrounded by our own culture and identity. We create better and more stable societies then the subhuman hoards like yourself.

Anyone else here a
B A S E D H O X H A I S T
A
S
E
D

H
O
X
H
A
I
S
T

>>129805619

And that place is filled with disgusting filthy Albanians infidels.

they aren't even human, so it doesn't count

>>129805750
>Forgetting Albania

>>129805744
You don't need to "maximize" your ability. The productive forces in society have already developed to such a point that we live in astounding abundance, the scarcity is largely caused by the inefficiency of markets.

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>>129805912
Another failed communist society?

>>129805842
Based Hoxha totally BTFO'd all abrhamicucks

>>129805912
I dont know bunch about albania except the bunkers and other memes, what was it like?

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>>129805689
That's true communism is pure society which is why ISIS loves more capitalism.

>>129804905
>At the expense of the White race and for the benefit of the Jewish race.
Okay, why does communism disadvantage white people and how does it disproportionately benefit Jews?

I would have thought that since the bourgeoisie is disproportionately Jewish that it would disadvantage Jews more than anyone else. Isn't capitalism what made them so rich?

>Non-Whites and anti-Whites (Jews included) have no place in White countries and no right to have any position in White countries.
In full communism there would be no such thing as a country let alone a white country.

And I don't understand why you're so uniquely outraged at communism for this when all of what you're describing happens under capitalism according to 21st Nazi ideology. The USSR didn't have any of this.

>>129806018
NO Albania was the only true Narxist Leninist state on EARTH

>>129805248
Yeah they only want to exterminate people.

>>129805590
>No. It favors no race.
And. That's. Why. It's. Anti. White.

It "favors no race" only in White countries. It would be perfectly fine with flooding White countries with millions of non-Whites at the expense of the White race.

>No. It's not materialist in the sense of consumerism.
It's materialist in the sense that the people and the economy exist to serve the state and the state's only purpose is to promote itself and further itself at the expense of the people.

>It's materialist in the sense that blind dogmatic idealism such as race or religion have no effect on society. Only the material conditions do.
Thus you destroy the spirit of Man and fill the hole that is left with things.

Under judeo communism the person is just an empty shell that exists to further the state.

Under National Socialism the White race is everything the state wishes to protect, survive and thrive. Everyone in the state is united with their family and extended family for the good of the race.

In Communism, the people and the economy exist to serve the State.

In National Socialism, the state and the economy exist to serve the People.

>>129806106
It was real communism, free healthcare and bread for everyone.

>>129806286
Communism is the abolition of the state.

>>129806152
It's not a sustainable war strategy to starve yourself.

>>129806371
communism or socialism or state capitalism? sorry if im wrong but isn't it the leninist approach that socialism can only exist worldwide?

>>129806152

I prefer nazis to commies. At least the nazis killed people with competence, rather then by incompetence and starving their own population

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>>129803472
>>129805718
I can even get into detail why your delusional will never ever happen right here and now:
The only reason why the economy works, is because through the market we have a no-bullshit method of valuing resources. If you think something that costs 10 bucks is more valuable than 10 bucks you have at that period of time, you do the exchange, otherwise, you are proving you don't in fact think that way. If you understand economics, and decide to make your magical communist system, you'll start to notice the problems with the absence of market aspects. So you start fixing it by adding more market aspects, once for one, until you realize you are just copying everything capitalism has.

You'll obviously have to limit how much someone can get based on how much value his or her work created, you'll obviously have to allow entrepreneurs to produce and chase profits to make what society wants, you'll obviously have to allow people to hire each other based on value so you can figure out what's the productivity of their labor, you'll also have to allow them great liberty of allocating themselves and solving their own problems.

As you go fixing your computer system, you realize that any intervention at all in a free market would lead to horrible results, so you would drop that system and communism simultaneously. The very fact you are a communist claiming that such a system is possible is proof that you never thought about it in the first place.

>>129796884
yo, dude, glad to see an ML on here! I still can't get on board with full on ML bullshit, but at least you're not a nazi or a nazbol dumbass. communist here tho

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>>129806583
kek this

>>129806177
>Okay, why does communism disadvantage white people
Because it would lead to our destruction.

You communists support all the policies that are contributing to White genocide.

>and how does it disproportionately benefit Jews?
Because Communism is Jewish. Created by and for Jews. Jews are at the core of the ideology of communism and the leadership of communism.

>I would have thought that since the bourgeoisie is disproportionately Jewish that it would disadvantage Jews more than anyone else. Isn't capitalism what made them so rich?
Capitalism is as Jewish as Communism is.

>In full communism there would be no such thing as a country let alone a white country.
And that's genocide.

Meanwhile there would still be black, asian, arab, latino etc countries.

>And I don't understand why you're so uniquely outraged at communism
Because it's Jewish and anti-White.

>all of what you're describing happens under capitalism according to 21st Nazi ideology.
Nigger, you do see my flag? Us National Socialists are not in favor of capitalism.

Any maoists?

>>129806495
No that's Trotskyism, under BASED Hoxha Albania was only real communist country in the world!

>>129805692
>Correct because it is not forced by the state
Really?
What would have happened to you in Nazi Germany if you refused to pay taxes?

>Instead of having everything of your taken by the state and given to everyone else (after the state takes its large share) and not even enough to thrive aka Communism
I don't think you understand. Communism is moneyless and marketless. You example here doesn't make sense in light of that.

>Done.
Okay, so when a nationalist state takes according to ability and gives according to need it's great. But when an international state does the exact same thing it's slavery.

Are you just that mad that it would help out brown people as well as white people?

>>129805689
Probably why they're getting BTFO by Rojava.

>>129806647
>The only reason why the economy works, is because through the market we have a no-bullshit method of valuing resources.
Markets are inherently inefficient.

>>129806747
Didn't he use a lot of resources to create those useless shelters?

>>129806747
is communism not stateless? would it at least be a socialist society? I dont understand.

>>129806394
>Communism is the abolition of the state.
Communism is the abolition of the White race and its homelands.

You'd destroy everything that makes the White race White and White homelands White.

>>129806732
MAO was a revisionist and probably an Anti-Communist too

Kill yourselves commie cunts

>>129806841
lol wat

>>129806841
No, it's the abolition of the state, class, money, and private property. Race has nothing to do with it.

>>129796884
First Marxism is a load of shit because another word for that is pre-communism. Socalism is a screw over like korea or Venezuela it always failed and made countries a better wasteland like fallout 4 bitchz And communism is a lying sack of horseshit because it starves the poor people to death and all the power of a communistic state is only allowed by a select few people which is most likely the 13 financial elites that are fucking with our everyday lives and cause plagues and diseases and war among seasoned men and women and warriors all alike. And finally Leninism is best described as one man defining what communism should be like and that's stupid as shit.

>>129806825
He's messing with you. He's shit posting.

Communism is statelessness, yes. At most there can be a socialist society in which the workers own and control the means of production, but that wasn't the case in Albania.

>>129806658
>Not being a BASED M-L-H
>>129806820
No, he used concrete and water and stuff
>>129806825
Thats revisionist nonsense. An totalitarian state is needed to advance communism.

>>129806841
yeah but where's the problem with destroying whites lmoa

>>129807112
Hoxhaists are trash lol

>>129806009
You are just LARPing nonsense. You have the understatement of economics of a child.
>The productive forces in society have already developed to such a point that we live in astounding abundance, the scarcity is largely caused by the inefficiency of markets.
Are you mentally retarded? It seems like you are too ignorant to even begin to understand why your statement is pure nonsense. If there no incentive for dozens of 40yo men to wake up at 8 am to produce stuff for you, then they'll not produce stuff for you and you'll starve to death. There's no magical "productive force essence" that we reached that will allow you to have your magical communist utopia where you can masturbate all day and never work. Grow the fuck up.

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>>129806583
But anon that was not true communism, learn the difference.

>>129807019
The problem with your post is that it lacks a basic understanding of the basics of marxism. How am I supposed to argue with a strawman?

>>129806761
I am sure you would go to jail like anyone else not paying taxes

>>129796884
hahaha are you the same spaniard who makes these threads every week?

>>129806961
so what happens to the private property?

>>129807088
No I'm FUCKING NOT. I bet you're a khrushchevite revisionist!

>>129807258
it becomes public i guess

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>>129806763
I explained to you in detail, at this point you are just in denial.
>if you wanna change the world you start from yourself and work outward because you build your competence that way
>I don't know how you can go out and protest the structure of the entire economic system if you can't keep your room organized
>don't be fixing up the economy eighteen year olds. You don't know anything about the economy, it's a massive complex machine beyond anyone's understatement and you mess with it at your peril
>So, can you even clean up your own room? No. Well, you should think about that. Because if you can't even clean up your own room, who the hell are you to give advice to the whole world?

>>129807019
>First Marxism is a load of shit because another word for that is pre-communism.
Marxism is a materialist system of thought concerning class society and dialectical materialism and historical materialism.

>Socalism is a screw over like korea or Venezuela it always failed and made countries a better wasteland like fallout 4 bitchz And communism is a lying sack of horseshit because it starves the poor people to death and all the power of a communistic state is only allowed by a select few people which is most likely the 13 financial elites that are fucking with our everyday lives and cause plagues and diseases and war among seasoned men and women and warriors all alike.
Socialism is an economic system in which the workers own and control the means of production. Venezuela is a capitalist state and North Korea seems to be oddly feudal if anything. But more closely likened to capitalism than socialism.

>And finally Leninism is best described as one man defining what communism should be like and that's stupid as shit.
Leninism is a system of thought that contains several theories. The most notable one being the concept of the vanguard party.

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Fuck off kike

>>129807302
and its regulated by the people?

>>129807186

And Moderate Islam isn't real Islam

>>129807302
> "I guess"

Communism everyone

>>129805718
For example in the case of getting food I think it would be very realistic to have a system much like ordering groceries online to be delivered to you. Where you can simply outline what your household would like to eat for the next period. You get the same effect as demand signals with a market economy so it is easy to approximate how much would need to be produced

>CyberSyn is lunacy
To be quite perfectly honest I don't think CyberSyn would have worked particularly well, the technology was too young for it to be much of a step above the Soviet Styled planned economy. However that was 40 years ago and now we have a sophisticated global network of advanced computers. If anything markets are obsolete.

>>129806761
>What would have happened to you in Nazi Germany if you refused to pay taxes?
Taxes ≠ Charity. That's a typical communism belief thinking that the only way someone can be charitable is by being taxed more.

>Communism is moneyless and marketless.
So it's delusional as well?
You'd rid the planet of the White race, White homelands, White tradition and White culture and claim that it's not anti-White.

>Okay, so when a nationalist state takes according to ability and gives according to need it's great.
The White race would be helping itself out of a love for itself.

>But when an international state does the exact same thing it's slavery.
Under Communism the people would be forced to help everyone else but their own people because if it didn't they'd be thrown into the gulags.

>Are you just that mad that it would help out brown people as well as white people?
Non-Whites have no place in White countries or soceity. It is not the White race's business to "help out brown people". It's brown people's business to help out brown people.

Do you chide grizzly bears for not helping out polar bears? No? Then why do you chide the White race for not helping out the brown races?

>>129807258
Private property is abolished and is turned into collective property for the betterment of all men, not just the rich.

What's important to note is that private property refers to the means of production. Things like stores and factories and railways and roads and farms. Personal property is your own belongings, and personal property will exist under Communism.

>>129807437
It is to my understanding that the private property will typically stay to be used under the same purpose if it's productive. its just the profits made off the land wont all be given to one group of people.

>>129807523
if u wanna know so badly you could read a book about it, i've heard of plenty of good ones if u wanna know.

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>>129796884

>>129807348
>>if you wanna change the world you start from yourself and work outward because you build your competence that way
That's not how it works. Society changes through it's material conditions, through the development of productive forces. Not petty idealism.

The base mostly effects the superstructure, not the other way around.

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>>129797593
The only reason I check these faggot commie threads is to make sure benis, garry on gomrab.

Also whoever made the decision to remove flags, FUCK YOU!

>>129806961
>No, it's the abolition of the state, class, money, and private property.
And the White race, White homelands, White culture, White traditions etc.

Why else do you communists support massive non-White immigration into White countries, abortion, homosexuality, transgenderism, racemixing, feminism and are against every single person who is remotely pro-White (aka White racists, nazis, supremacists, fascists)

>Race has nothing to do with it.
And. That's. Why. It's. Anti. White.

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>>129807518
You can't compare religion to political parties. There is a big different in tech and Communism would be possible today because we really never had true communism.

>>129807876
>>Race has nothing to do with it.
>And. That's. Why. It's. Anti. White.
>white = a race
wat

>>129807847
>Also whoever made the decision to remove flags, FUCK YOU!
You can still choose "geographic location" and have it show your nation's flag.

Personally I think it should show both your location flag and if you choose, your ideological flag.

Class consciousness is a fucking spook. Negate everything, forget building a new world in the shell of the old. Nechayev was right.

Gas the kikes!

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>>129807395
Remember when I wrote a detailed comment explaining why your magical computer communism makes absolutely no sense and you ignored it?
>Socialism is an economic system in which the workers own and control the means of production
A vague senseless dogmatic belief, which doesn't understand that "means of production" is literally anything. Venezuela is led by a socialist party that took unconditional control over the country. So it's a socialist country.

>>129807984
le memey anarchist thinks he matters.

>>129805718
Mises's problems with communism arise from the fact that a room full of people can't acclimate value as accurately as an economy basically due to the fact that it's magnitudes too complex.

A computer can probably manage it with sufficient computing power.

If you actually knew what you were talking about you wouldn't l

>>129807876
We support white culture. We support all culture. Under capitalism genuine culture is destroyed and replaced with mass produced, easily consumable crap.

Communists also have a historical tendency to oppose homosexuality and race mixing. Homosexuality was criminalized in the USSR under Stalin, and the cultures of the other SSR's were mostly subjugated to that of the Russian SFSR.

Not that it matters now.

>>129807950
>wat
If you're not pro-White, by definition you're anti-White.

>>129808063
dialectical materialism isn't even a thing lmao

>>129806694
>Because it would lead to our destruction.
If you think this is because humanity might mix into one big brown race why is that uniquely anti-white? And I'm not entirely sure that would happen anyway, scientists have been saying that human populations are evolving further apart rather than converging together.

>You communists support all the policies that are contributing to White genocide.
What are those?

>Because Communism is Jewish. Created by and for Jews. Jews are at the core of the ideology of communism and the leadership of communism.
That's not an argument, that's a slogan. What is it about the system of communism that would disproportionately empower Jews?

>And that's genocide.
How is international statelessness genocide?

>Meanwhile there would still be black, asian, arab, latino etc countries.
But there wouldn't. I already just told you there would be no countries period. Not just white countries. The world would be internationally stateless.

>Us National Socialists are not in favor of capitalism.
I do not understand how a system that retains private property and wage labour is not capitalist.

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>>129796884
we own you

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>>129808063
>says the commie who's still never had a successful commie society

>>129808157
how do you explain basically all of history then?
>>129808137
is it possible to be pro- all races? just wodnerin

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>>129808043
>A vague senseless dogmatic belief, which doesn't understand that "means of production" is literally anything. Venezuela is led by a socialist party that took unconditional control over the country. So it's a socialist country.

The means of production refers to things like stores, factories, railways, and farms.

Socialism is an umbrella term for multiple economic theories. The only defining point of it is that the means of production are collectively owned by the workers.

Venezuela is not a socialist country. It has markets and private business. It's capitalist.

>>129808122
>We support white culture.
Obviously not since you'd adopted an anti-White, Jewish ideology.

>We support all culture.
Being blended together into a melting pot in White countries, right?

>Under capitalism genuine culture is destroyed and replaced with mass produced, easily consumable crap.
Which is why it's as Jewish as Communism.

>Communists also have a historical tendency to oppose homosexuality and race mixing.
Commies of today are pro-faggot.

You're pro-homosexual too, aren't you?

>Homosexuality was criminalized in the USSR under Stalin, and the cultures of the other SSR's were mostly subjugated to that of the Russian SFSR.
You know what else was criminalized?

Anti-Semitism
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1931/01/12.htm
>In the U.S.S.R. anti-semitism is punishable with the utmost severity of the law as a phenomenon deeply hostile to the Soviet system. Under U.S.S.R. law active anti-semites are liable to the death penalty.

>>129808157
>dialectical materialism isn't even a thing lmao

this is why ancoms aren't communist lmao

>>129806694
Natsocs that are hitlerist probably don't care about capitalism. You're thinking of strasserists.

>>129808285
historical materialism :^)
also a pirate flag neat

>>129808246
Places such as the Bavarian Soviet Republic, Hungarian Soviet Republic, the Anarchist Communes in Spain during the civil war, and the Paris Commune are all examples of a communist society working.

Strangely, whenever it happens, the capitalist countries freak out and destroy it right away.

Fuck you commies.

We'll never forget Kronstadt

>>129807579
>For example in the case of getting food I think it would be very realistic to have a system much like ordering groceries online to be delivered to you. Where you can simply outline what your household would like to eat for the next period.
Brilliant commie. You just invented a service that already exists for almost a decade. Now what's the next step of your master plan to command the rest of the entire economy?

> You get the same effect as demand signals with a market economy so it is easy to approximate how much would need to be produced
Brilliant, you reinvented currency, put it on a computer, and forced everyone to use it. What now? Aw shucks, turns out that increasing wealth in the real world means reducing costs and increasing marginal value, just like in a capitalist system. Meaning you accomplished nothing other than placing a totalitarian system on top of people.
> If anything markets are obsolete.
Care to explain why? I think you don't realize how delusional you are. Let me clear things up for you: I know you are under 20, I know you don't know jack shit about anything, I know your beliefs cannot be explained. You, are a young little shit who knows nothing about the world, and there's no advice or statement you can give to fix up the economy. You barely understand the current world, let alone a magical utopia that only exists inside
a fantasy in your head.

>>129808137

This.

And racist scum has to die.

Ergo : legal and just to kill all commies

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Do u guys have any ideas how fucking gay u sound saying comrades?

>>129808637
This lel

>>129808697
Take off pirate flag. Pirate flag is post-left flag now.

>>129807826
>muh superstructure

get over your pseudo-intellectual edubabble. Realize you've been duped by Hegel, Marx, and all of those hilariously dumb French nihilists of the past century and move on with your life. The fairy tale has proven to be just that, and improving technology will change nothing.

>>129808246
sorry dad
>>129808440
Can you tell me whats wrong with being LGBT? just wondering what your answer to that would be

Homosexuality under the USSR was legalized under lenin when he got into power way before any other country had. Stalin illegalized it and a few years later re legalized it. still before most countries had it legalized.

>>129807177
You're fucking trash. Albania was the only Marxist Leninist state on earth. Tell me what are you ideologically?

>>129808201
>If you think this is because humanity might mix into one big brown race why is that uniquely anti-white?
Because it will destroy the White race and in practice it will destroy only the White race.

>What are those?
Again, feminism, homosexuality, transgenderism, racemixing, multi-racial societies, diversity, multiculturalism, and the general anti-White beliefs of communism.

>What is it about the system of communism that would disproportionately empower Jews?
That it was created by Jews and Jews are at the core of Communism and Cultural Marxism.

>But there wouldn't. I already just told you there would be no countries period. Not just white countries. The world would be internationally stateless.
And in practice that would only mean the extinction of the White race because there will always be non-Whites in their homelands.

>I do not understand how a system that retains private property and wage labour is not capitalist.
Because you don't understand National Socialism

>>129808761
whats wrong with that

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>>129808440
>Obviously not since you'd adopted an anti-White, Jewish ideology.
I don't know if you're trying to troll or not. But Communism doesn't care about race or religion.

>Anti-Semitism
Anti-semitism should be illegal. Try to destroy any race should be illegal.

>Which is why it's as Jewish as Communism.
Fascism and National Socialism support corporatist economics. These are a branch of illiberal capitalism.

>>129803472
>With sophisticated information technology in the vein of CyberSyn. Only now such a system would be 40 years more advanced.
that doesnt explain anything.

>>129808776
>Can you tell me whats wrong with being LGBT?
Homosexuality is a self-destructive, degenerate and dangerous mental illness, promoted and normalized in White countries by the Jewish elite and the Jewish-controlled media to the detriment of the White race, White traditions and White culture.

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>>129808591
>Bavarian Soviet Republic, Hungarian Soviet Republic, the Anarchist Communes in Spain during the civil war, and the Paris Commune
So, a bunch of failed societies?


>Strangely, whenever it happens, the capitalist countries freak out and destroy it right away.
So Communism is completely incapable of standing up to any resistance?

Genuine question if any commies can answer. If communism is supposedly natural, why has it never been tried before? Or has it?

>>129808761
Comrades means respect to each other. We see everybody equal and peace will be with us.

>>129808772
Improving technology is was lead to the develop of both feudalism and capitalism.

With the growth of automation, the transitioning over to more of a capital-renting economy, and with the destruction of the Earth's resources and increasing industrialization in the third world, the material conditions shall prove decisive for our society.

>>129808949
No it's not, that's silly.

>>129808912
>But Communism doesn't care about race or religion.
Okay I'll make this quite clear

Do you care about the existence or survival of the White race?

If yes, you're pro-White.

If no, you're anti-White.

>Anti-semitism should be illegal
But not being anti-White right?

>Try to destroy any race should be illegal.
Except the White race, right?

>Fascism and National Socialism support corporatist economics.
As long as those corporations aren't anti-White in their practices. If they are, they're illegal.

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>>129808402
Notice that you are too stupid to ever concede how stupid you are. You'll never come to your senses it seems. You know nothing and yet you think you know everything.
>>The means of production refers to things like stores, factories, railways, and farms.
Yes, go on, keep telling me what means of production are. in fact, do you want me to help you by explaining what capital is?
Capital is books, capital is tables, it is computers, it is trucks, it is buildings, it is pavement, windows, lightbulbs and printers.
There's no magical difference between means of production and anything else. You are so ignorant and delusional, that you cannot even begin to realize that.

>Socialism is an umbrella term for multiple economic theories. The only defining point of it is that the means of production are collectively owned by the workers.

See pic :>>129808043

>>129808949
>self-destructive
elaborate
>mental illness
so is a lot of things if you wanna get technical like that
>promoted and normalized in White countries by the Jewish elite and the Jewish-controlled media to the detriment of the White race, White traditions and White culture.
dont jewish values say homosex is of the bad?

>>129809034
Primitive communism has existed for long periods of human history actually.

>>129808979
>So Communism is completely incapable of standing up to any resistance?
It's not communism, it was the military strength of those societies at the time.

I mean, the first proper bourgeois revolution occurred in England. Surely the failure of the English revolution and the withering away of their bourgeois leadership in the 1600's does not mean capitalism is a failure.

>>129803472
>From each according to their ability, to each according to their need.
What metrics do you use to measure need and ability? Who does the measuring and makes the decisions? Also how do you accomplish any of this without having either class or a bureaucracy (IE a state)?

>>129808111
No it cannot, you autistic retard. And I even already explained it: >>129806647
>>129806647

>"Nazibol"
I think its impossible for commie ideologies to get more autistic than this.

>>129809311
isn't really the point though, there isn't any speccifc mode of production that is linked with "hooman nuture"
Humans have always made their own nature and behaviors.

>>129808798
>Albania was the only Marxist Leninist state on earth.
idk if I should even bother if someone has such a retarded opinion like this. tell me, why did Albania fail while, for instance, Cuba and China are still going great? why did Albanian socialism fall apart? probably bc it was complete shit

>>129809311
By that, I assume you mean the 'communism' that is practices between family members? As in a traditional family unit that shared the resources according to need?

Revolution or Evolution?

>>129804437
its fucking true, ive asked him questions. waited twenty minutes and got direct copy pastes from the wiki page for communism.
he's been making threads for almost a year now.

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>>129807240
Precisely, so it IS forced by the state.

>>129807583
>Taxes ≠ Charity. That's a typical communism belief thinking that the only way someone can be charitable is by being taxed more.
Only what Hitler was describing just there is a welfare state. Not an ancap utopia where voluntary charity is the only form of social aid. Nazi Germany had welfare programs that were funded by taxes (and loans but that's another topic), that is the system Hitler is defending here.

>So it's delusional as well?
Yeah, anon. The world will simply collapse without the magic green paper that makes the sun rise.

>The White race would be helping itself out of a love for itself.
And I could say that communism is the human race helping itself out of a love for itself. Where is the difference apart from pure rhetoric?

>Under Communism the people would be forced to help everyone else but their own people
What?
Did the Soviet Union not help out Russians?

>thrown into the gulags
And in Nazism if you refused to pay taxes you would go to prison. Or even worse, a death camp with a big black star on your uniform if you tried some ancap sovereign citizen shit.

>Non-Whites have no place in White countries or soceity. It is not the White race's business to "help out brown people".

Why make the distinction?
Why don't we all just help each other out? That's why communists like international solidarity.

> White race for not helping out the brown races?
Well because I'm not a bear so I could give two shits what happens to them. I am a human, and I recognize that communism is what's best for me, and I recognize that unless it is international the revolution can never succeed.

> White homelands, White tradition and White culture and claim that it's not anti-White.
You don't understand. Capitalism has already rid the planet of white homelands, white tradition, and white culture. If anything communism is the best hope at restoring folk culture and tradition - read Adorno.

>>129809203
>Notice that you are too stupid to ever concede how stupid you are. You'll never come to your senses it seems. You know nothing and yet you think you know everything.
You didn't address my points. You just threw insults at me.

>Yes, go on, keep telling me what means of production are. in fact, do you want me to help you by explaining what capital is?
Capital is books, capital is tables, it is computers, it is trucks, it is buildings, it is pavement, windows, lightbulbs and printers.
There's no magical difference between means of production and anything else. You are so ignorant and delusional, that you cannot even begin to realize that.
I already explained what the means of production are to you. Capital is used to continue creating more capital and are used to produced goods for consumption.

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>>129809371
>I mean, the first proper bourgeois revolution occurred in England. Surely the failure of the English revolution and the withering away of their bourgeois leadership in the 1600's does not mean capitalism is a failure.
Yet Communism has failed EVERY time. A few lost battles mean little when you have won the war.

>>129809451
On that note, let's abolish humans right?

>>129809530
No, on a reasonable scale for primitive societies.

>>129803472
>With sophisticated information technology in the vein of CyberSyn
Read: total surveillance.

>We don't.
Then fuck off

>capitalism also requires total co-operation.
Please, elaborate

>From each according to their ability, to each according to their need.
In other words you incentivise incompetence

really missing Franco right about now.

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>>129808402
Communism is just the extension of white imperialism. Stop trying to impose your failed ideas on the rest of the world, fucking retards

>>129809627
>On that note, let's abolish humans right?
wat

Also, who decided on the name 'nazbol'? It sounds pretty pathetic. Why not communazi?

M-L-H is the definitive Marxist ideology

>>129809626
>Yet Communism has failed EVERY time. A few lost battles mean little when you have won the war.
It's kind of hard to succeed when the rest of the world tries to kill you because it knows if it doesn't, more people will join with you and overthrow it.

Capitalism and Socialism are like two aggressive, competing cultures on a petridish. They will try to kill one another. They cannot co-exist.

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>>129809303
>elaborate
STD's. Cancer. Suicide rate. Other mental illess rates.

>so is a lot of things if you wanna get technical like that
Yet homosexuality and its deriviates are passed as normal and acceptable.

>dont jewish values say homosex is of the bad?
Nope.

ADL and the LGBT Community: A Commitment to Equal Rights
http://www.adl.org/civil-rights/discrimination/c/adl-and-the-lgbt-community.html

Biden: "Jewish Leaders Drove Gay Marriage Changes"
http://news.yahoo.com/biden-jewish-leaders-drove-gay-012202293.html

Gay Marriage's Jewish Pioneer
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/101628/gay-marriages-jewish-pioneer

Jewish Leaders Behind the Homosexual and Lesbian Movement
http://www.intmensorg.info/hlm.htm

The Six Genders of the Talmud
http://thejewniverse.com/2015/the-6-genders-of-the-talmud/

U.S. Jews Among the Most Supportive of Gay Marriage
http://www.timesofisrael.com/us-jews-among-the-most-supportive-of-gay-marriage/

Jewish Groups Back Obama on Gay Marriage
http://forward.com/articles/156055/jewish-groups-back-obama-on-gay-marriage/

Jewish Groups Celebrate Historic U.S. Supreme Court Gay Marriage Ruling
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.663193

Jewish Groups Hail Supreme Court's Legalization of Gay Marriage Nationwide
http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Jewish-groups-celebrate-Supreme-Courts-legalization-of-gay-marriage-nationwide-407269

Jewish Lesbian Widow Edith Windsor Revels in Win on Gay Marriage
http://forward.com/articles/179371/jewish-lesbian-widow-edith-windsor-revels-in-win-o/

Jewish Scouting Leaders Vocal on Gay Inclusion
http://www.jta.org/2013/05/10/news-opinion/united-states/jewish-scouting-leaders-vocal-on-gay-inclusion-2

Jews Should Support Gay Marriage
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Jews-should-support-gay-marriage

Jewish Group Backs RI Gay Marriage Bill
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4351192,00.html

>>129809803
You say this but you clearly fail to udnerstand what hoxhaism really is,

>>129809731
transhumanism is the only good humanism.

>>129809627

I'd argue that human rights don't exist. Human rights are just another superstructure of control used to dominate the poor underclass.

>>129809418
>I think its impossible for commie ideologies to get more autistic than this.
It should be noted that Nazbol is essentially Red Fascism, very comparable to Strasserism.

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>>129809621
>You didn't address my points
Not only I addressed your points, I debunked communism in this very thread, and you did not address that at all.

>I already explained what the means of production are to you.
No, you idiot, I was the one that had to explain what the means of production are, and how there's no real definition for it. Anything is the means of production, anything is productive capital. The capital of many industries are similar to household items.

>>129809486
It fell apart because the evil capitalist funded protests and the revisionists took control of the Party of labour, China is not a communist country or a socialist country it is a capitalist abomination wearing the skin of communism. Same with Cuba.

>>129809678
>Communism is just the extension of white imperialism.
Communism does not care about race.

>>129810027
It should also be noted that communism is economically nonsensical and you are just as delusional as he is, if not more.

>>129809621
A store doesn't produce anything. The store owner, his knowledge, reputation and network of suppliers and customers creates value.
Define what means of production means, don't list things that sound vaguely appropriate

>>129806009
So engineers are just irrelevant retards? We would be fine without them. Also, are you saying that minimal ability has the same outcome that maximal ability? If not, how is not miximizing abilities desireable?

You are a nigger retard.

There are animals that are smarter than you.

>>129810001
Yup. Another tool used to control the lower classes is the state, ever think the reason no ideology "does it right" is because you can't fix this society, you have to break it fully first?

>>129808697
>Brilliant commie. You just invented a service that already exists for almost a decade. Now what's the next step of your master plan to command the rest of the entire economy?
Precisely I didn't invent anything. My point is that the technology to do away with markets is already here.

What's my next step? I dunno, the economy is pretty fucking big. Do you want me to think up alternatives to every possible paid service? Because that might just take several lifetimes.

>Brilliant, you reinvented currency, put it on a computer, and forced everyone to use it. What now?
What? There is no currency, this the point. Nothing was exchanged, you merely signalled what you wanted.

And again you're missing the point. It's that money is unnecessary, information technology has developed to a point where it is possible to replace money with a decentralized planned economy.

>Aw shucks, turns out that increasing wealth in the real world means reducing costs and increasing marginal value, just like in a capitalist system
Precisely. And with this costs are reduced to zero.

>Care to explain why?
I already partly have. But let me ask you first what it is you think markets provide for society that would be impossible to provide otherwise?

I would also appreciate it if you made more arguments instead of incoherently ranting at me.

>>129810068
>No, you idiot,
You don't have to get mad over differing opinions.

>I was the one that had to explain what the means of production are, and how there's no real definition for it. Anything is the means of production, anything is productive capital. The capital of many industries are similar to household items.
I explained to you what the means of production are though.

>>129810195
A store stores stuff, which makes it a component in the means of production. Just like how rails and roads don't actually produce anything, but allow goods to be transported which also makes them apart of the means of production.

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>Hello Comrades. This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism.

>>129809923
And I guess you do faggot?

>>129810201
I never said engineers are irrelevant.

>>129809609
>And I could say that communism is the human race helping itself out of a love for itself. Where is the difference apart from pure rhetoric?
Because you'd end up destroying the White race.

>Did the Soviet Union not help out Russians?
LMAO! No.

>Or even worse, a death camp with a big black star on your uniform if you tried some ancap sovereign citizen shit.
The holocaust literally did not happen.

>Why don't we all just help each other out?
Because it's not my race's place to help another race out. Because you deny nature by claiming that race doesn't exist and doesn't matter.

>Well because I'm not a bear so I could give two shits what happens to them.
Yet you expect me to give two shits about some shit colored race?

>I am a human, and I recognize that communism is what's best for me, and I recognize that unless it is international the revolution can never succeed.
...At the expense of the White race.

>Capitalism has already rid the planet of white homelands, white tradition, and white culture.
That's cultural marxism. You see, your Jewish masters opened the floodgates.

Under capitalism, the people and the state exist to serve the Economy. Which can and has been corrupted by the Jews.

>If anything communism is the best hope at restoring folk culture and tradition
How can it do that if the White race is blended out of existence?

>>129810436
>and I guess you do faggot?
Why call me a faggot? Not too nice. And judging by your posts I probably know more about ML and MLM than you. MLH is a little unknown to me but I know enough to say ur way of.

>>129810502
>Because you'd end up destroying the White race.
Who actually cares about the white race though?

>>129810608
fags

>>129810257
> Nothing was exchanged, you merely signalled what you wanted.
Meaning you are mentally retarded and I have to re-explain something I already wrote.
If that person doesn't have to pay, that means that person can't give any reliable signal, it means there's no meaning of value.
And of course, there's also the fact that nobody has the incentive to get off their asses to produce your little groceries just because a computer told him to, you delusional little cuck.

.

hiiiiii boys hows the communism coming?

>>129796884
If communism is so good why Dont women cook anymore or like to actually pl at video games in this email is not be in this email is not

>>129810700
Whats wrong with being a fag? not very nice desu.
>>129810755
Pretty good- thanks

>>129810700
I agree. Only faggot nazis care about something as petty as skin color while the rest of us are actually working to make things better.

>>129808821
>Because it will destroy the White race and in practice it will destroy only the White race.
Why is that?
Why would it not destroy the Asian race for instance?

>Again, feminism, homosexuality, transgenderism, racemixing, multi-racial societies, diversity, multiculturalism, and the general anti-White beliefs of communism
Ah, now I see. You just brand everything you don't like or that threatens you idealized view of the world as "anti-white" in the hopes that it makes you look sympathetic. Kind of like how Muslims use "Islamophobic".

Women, gays and transgenders are people. If someone wants to have sex with someone of another race or live in a community that there weren't born into more power to them.

>That it was created by Jews and Jews are at the core of Communism and Cultural Marxism.
Again, you haven't explained anything.
What is it that Jews have to gain from a stateless, classless, moneyless society?

>And in practice that would only mean the extinction of the White race because there will always be non-Whites in their homelands.
And probably everywhere else on the planet as well. We as communists do not care.

>Because you don't understand National Socialism
Okay then. Educate me on why private property and wage labour are not capitalist in national socialism.

>>129810387
And books carry knowledge, which facilitates production. Are you going to seize them? You know people probably do the most production of all, by a large margin, are you going to seize me? Are you able to define what the term "means of production" means or are you incapable? I can't find it in a single economics textbook.

>>129810608
>Who actually cares about the white race though?
White people who want their children and grandchildren to look and act like them do.
White people who want their homelands to look like their homelands and not like Africa or Arabia do.

Why do you want your children and grandchildren to look and act like niggers?

Why do you want the country you live in to look like Africa or the Middle East?

>>129810800
Are you okay?

>>129810872
homosexuality is as much a construct as heterosexuality ain't it?

>>129810905
I'm just shitposting until I can get some organization going elsewhere.

>>129810490
No, you said maximizing your ability is not needed. It's the same thing. You are not born an engineer. Why would I become one if I'm just going to get things "according to my need"? Why should I give a fuck if I can't get the things I want as opposed to the things I need to survive?

>>129810387
Reminder: communism is economical nonsense. There's no civilization when you try to purposely abolish the only method of measuring the value of resources and human effort. In fact, wake the fuck up. You advocate for a change that could potentially destroy with your nation while you can't even begin to explain it.

As I already shown, all it takes is for a person who's not economically illiterate to bat an eye and think for 3 seconds to find flaws in your logic : >>129810709
You are trying establish totalitarian economic policy based on your narcissistic sense of false knowledge. Gee, I wonder why people like you destroyed literally every country they took over.

>>129810957
>And books carry knowledge, which facilitates production.
Not really. Machinery and infrastructure and labor produce wealth. Knowledge does not in the same sense.

But many communists, including me, agree with the abolition of intellectual property. In which case ideas and knowledge shall be free and open to all, including books.

>>129797593
I came here to give this glorious fuck a (you)

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>>129810967
Commies oppose mass immigration and want people to have children at levels above replacement rate.

Is that not enough, or do we not oppose race-mixing enough for your taste?

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>>129809887
Well when you're ideology involves pissing off everybody around you you're gonna get some opposition. Even when Capitalism has faced bigger threats, such as the USSR and their puppets or the Axis nations, we still prevailed.

>>129811134
>No, you said maximizing your ability is not needed. It's the same thing.
It's not the same thing. Without engineers the productive forces of society will decline.

>>129811236
You prevailed over the illiberal forms of capitalism produced in the Axis countries because you had both the US backing you and the USSR destroyed most of the Wehrmacht and Imperial Japanese ground forces.

>>129811206
>Machinery and infrastructure and labor produce wealth. Knowledge does not in the same sense
This is why you're an idiot
and you still haven't defined means of production in a way that doesnt advocate slavery

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>>129810907
>Why would it not destroy the Asian race for instance?
Because Asia is not and won't be flooded with millions of non-Asians.

>You just brand everything you don't like or that threatens you idealized view of the world as "anti-white" in the hopes that it makes you look sympathetic.
Except those things are destroying the White race, White traditions and White culture.

>Women, gays and transgenders are people.
Homosexuals and trannies are mentally ill.
Women are not people. They're women.
Men are not people. They're men.

>What is it that Jews have to gain from a stateless, classless, moneyless society?
Power. Control.

>And probably everywhere else on the planet as well. We as communists do not care.
And that's exactly what the Jews want. a single mutt race with no heritage, culture or history controlled by their Jewish masters (who are still Jewish)

>Educate me on why private property and wage labour are not capitalist in national socialism.
Because under capitalism they exist to serve the economy and make money.
Under National Socialism the exist to serve the people and help them to thrive.

>>129809376
Well need is very obvious. If you have no legs you need a wheelchair. If you are alive you need food and water. If you are sick you need treatment. And so on and so forth. Determining a need is a non-problem.

>and ability
This is a more interesting question and it requires pointing out that in order for full communism to work it needs extreme amounts of automation (which in most western countries we already have). The main idea in communism is that you can work without being alienated by that work, your ability to work is simply how much you choose to do since without hierarchical power-structures and with ever expanding automation the amount of work required shrinks and how enjoyable that work is - is much greater.

>Who does the measuring and makes the decisions?
Well that's the point of real democracy, we do.

>>129811206
>abolition of intellectual property
abolition of science and art

niggers

>>129811140
>You are trying establish totalitarian economic policy based on your narcissistic sense of false knowledge. Gee, I wonder why people like you destroyed literally every country they took over.
Actually we kinda massively developed the countries we took over. The notable example being the USSR, which went from a peasant backwater to an industrial nuclear superpower in only thirty years!

>You advocate for a change that could potentially destroy with your nation while you can't even begin to explain it.
I don't care for the nation. Communists are Proletarian Internationalists, they wish to see states and nations abolished.

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>>129811222
Hey, have you forgot to explain to me how do you know whether a good is worth its costs in a communist system? Can you explain to me how can I vote on the costs other people will have to incur?

>>129811222
>Commies oppose mass immigration
So you'd be opposed to having non-Whites flood into White countries?
You'd be opposed to allowing non-Whites to outbreed Whites in White countries?

>and want people to have children at levels above replacement rate.
Including all the non-Whites in non-White countries?
Including all the non-Whites in White countries?

>Is that not enough, or do we not oppose race-mixing enough for your taste?
Do you believe non-Whites belong in White countries?
Do you believe non-Whites should be allowed to breed with Whites?

>>129811626
>there was no science or art until patent law came along
This is what AynCraps want us to believe

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>>129811423
>you had both the US backing you
Damn right, best country coming through

>USSR destroyed most of the Wehrmacht and Imperial Japanese ground forces.
I'll give them the Wermacht, but it was the USA that forced the Japs to surrender

>>129811626
IP hurts art and science by locking off ideas. It hurts the free exchange of ideas.

>>129811501
>and you still haven't defined means of production in a way that doesnt advocate slavery
The means of production don't require slaves to operate them.

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Hahahahaha people still believe this garbage? Off to the gas chambers with you!

>>129810596
>M-L-H is M-L-M
They are not the same ideology. What points to me not understanding my own ideology? I see Communism general has been taken over by revisionists.

>>129811701
Are you that huemonkey that thinks he won an argument when people stop bothering to explain to you how dumb you are?

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>>129811773
Ancaps don't believe in intellectual property you retard

>>129811222
>Commies oppose mass immigration and want people to have children at levels above replacement rate.
If only..

>>129811990
People that claim otherwise are liberals, not commies.

>>129811910
>FREE MARKET COMMUNISM

>>129811810
Actually the Japan was offering to surrender to the US on the condition they could keep their emperor. This was unacceptable at the time (the allies had a unconditonal surrender policy) however with the USSR steamrolling into Manchuria and Korea, and with the Soviets prepping their navy to begin taking Japanese islands, the US quickly had to act to bring the Japanese to surrender to stop the spread of Bolshevik influence.

Even after dropping two bombs, with the Japanese still only offering surrender with their emperor kept on the throne, the US accepted.

It's quite an interesting part of history overall, especially if you like geopolitics.

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>>129811698
>Actually we kinda massively developed the countries we took over.
Your delusion is not an argument commie. Even at the height of communist "success", they were still called the second world, they were still keeping their nationalism alive by claiming that one day in the future they would surpass free countries. Today, most of them are the poor 1/2 of planet earth. And remember your "not true communism" nonsense? Because they never managed to abolish money, so how come communism developed those countries and not totalitarian fascism?

>>>You advocate for a change that could potentially destroy with your nation while you can't even begin to explain it.
>I don't care for the nation. Communists are Proletarian Internationalists, they wish to see states and nations abolished.
It's like you are completely mentally disconnected to what you are replying. You just get triggered into LARPing. So, instead of destroying the nation, you'll destroy the whole world? Great, only you forgot to address the fact that you don't know jack shit of what you advocate for and my previous reply proved it.

>>129811698
Imperial Russia was not a "peasant backwater", it had the third biggest economy after the USA and Germany, and was rapidly industrializing. It was at the forefront of the arts and the sciences. Where do you think all these proletarians came from, if Russia was entirely made of peasants?

What the commies did was slow down Russia's rate of growth. Reminder that Finland was a part of Russia which separated after the revolution, and Finland is now one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

>>129811990
mass immigration is the consequence of market pressure for cheap labor.

The only people who support it are useful idiots.

>>129810502
>Because you'd end up destroying the White race.
And this brings me to the greatest point of all. Who fucking cares?

>LMAO! No.
I see. Explain why not.

>The holocaust literally did not happen.
o i am laffin

> Because you deny nature by claiming that race doesn't exist and doesn't matter.
Scientists are unanimous on the idea that race is an absolutely and totally retarded way of categorizing humans. This is not to say genetic differences don't exist, but they're not centred around racial lines. The only meaningful thing someone's race tells you is what colour they are.

>Yet you expect me to give two shits about some shit colored race?
Well yes because as explained international solidarity is vital to the survival of the revolution.

>...At the expense of the White race.
How would it disproportionate hurt white people more than anyone else.
Not some vague spooky idea of "the hwhite race", actual real living breathing white people.

>That's cultural marxism.
Once again read Adorno. The man who you idiots claim invented "cultural Marxism" at the Frankfurt School of Witchcraft and Cuckoldry. He rightly identified that this destruction of traditition and culture was happening because of capitalism and being replaced by pop-culture.

>How can it do that if the White race is blended out of existence?
Well because culture and tradition isn't some magic thing that belongs to white people. It's something everyone can contribute to.

communists are more racist than everyone, WE were kings, and yall want to eliminate our kingdom

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>>129812214
We allowed them to keep their emperor because he was a useful puppet that allowed us to turn Japan into a capitalist democracy. The Soviets didn't have the naval forces to invade Japan, let alone fully take the Japanese islands.

>>129810967
I don't care what god people worship or what skin color they have. Only that the proletariat is free and the Earth is no longer being eaten away at.

>>129812144
Again, if only.

>>129812459
Enjoy your "proletariat" when you're surrounded by niggers with an average IQ of 70.

>>129812452
I'm sure they could've had a lot of pissed off Chinese volunteers.

>>129812459
Can you turn off the larping, mr 18yo big boy. Can you explain how do you know whether a good is worth its costs in a communist system? What good is worth being produced and what good is not worth being produced in a communist society? How do you value the resources to know whether you are creating wealth and improving instead of consuming yourself to a total collapse?

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>>129797593

>>129812537
What did you mean by this?

>>129810709
>, that means that person can't give any reliable signal
You haven't actually explained anything. You may as well have just said "nuh uh". Because among the most important things money does is signal demand to consumers which is exactly what this system is doing.

"but there's no value". Money is absolutely and totally worthless is any real terms. You as a libertarian should know that.

>And of course, there's also the fact that nobody has the incentive to get off their asses to produce your little groceries just because a computer told him to
Well besides the fact that if no one works we're all going to starve to death. That's the incentive.

And if someone outright refuses to work that's a good way to earn a one way ticket to the gulag.

>>129811559
>Determining need is no problem
But measuring it is. If you boil everything down to bare necessities you are gonna find yourself in a very bland, Stalin like situation. You will have people living on survival rations and they won't like it too much, the first chance they get they will go to greener pastures. You are trying to base your resource distribution on an abstract without using an objective means of measurement. This is gonna go badly no matter how you slice it.
>how much you choose to do
And what happens when too many people choose not to work? How you keep your society functioning then?
>Democracy
Are you really trying to tell me that democracy alone can manage everything for millions of people in an efficient manner? Who would mediate between communities that decide different courses of action? The people alone cannot decide all of that in a timely manner, this is why republics are favored for higher populations and once you have representatives you effectively have a different class of people.

Communism claims it wants a stateless, classless society but your own axiom for resource distribution would require a bureaucracy the likes of which I've only seen parodies of.

>>129811773
Well in the 16th century if you wanted a Michelangelo on your roof, you hired Michelangelo. If you wanted to implement alternating current, you hired Nikola Tesla. You didn't download it off some russian website.

>>129811885
>Machinery doesn't require humans for design operation and maintenance
Humans are the means of production because they produce, more than anything else. you are an advocate of slavery.

>>129812459
Religion stands in the way of Socialism though, the only way people can be united is through the destruction of religion and a creation of proletarian patriotic solidarity. Religions like Islam, Judaism and Christianity have no place in a communist world.

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>>129812337
The Russian Empire was mostly feudalist. It had some industry, but in 1913 agriculture made up about ~50% percent of the economy which is an insane amount. An industrial country for reference, industry should make up at least ~75% of the economy, but preferably 80 to 90 percent.

>>129812317
>they were still called the second world,
wat? 2nd world does not mean economic status. It merely identifies a nation as being part of the communist bloc.

What a fucking retard you are.

>Today, most of them are the poor 1/2 of planet earth
tbqh, most of them were poorer before

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>>129812615
It's not the manpower that was the problem, it was the massive amount of naval power you would need to launch an invasion force. Neither the Soviets nor the Chinese had the navy to invade Japan with.

Marx was a boil covered fatass who never worked a day in his life. He never paid "the working class" for anything he received from them. Knocked up his house servant (that he never paid) and lived off of money from a company which he never worked for. Marx was what he hated.

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>>129797205

Listen, kike, no one is fooled. Its obvious youre posting on a proxy, only an extreme newfag would do anything but sage these threads.

The only reason they survive is because you ban evading shitstains keep proxy posting in your own threads, when you cant brigade it from lefty/pol/. Both of those are against the rules, but the marxist faggot kike mods couldnt give a shit because they plan to destroy this board.

This is a larp thread. Dont post in it unless youre a fucking larping retard.

sage

>>129812669
Commodity production is abolished under communism (despite what Stalin would say). Goods aren't produced to be sold or bought.
>>129812317
The Eastern Bloc was capitalist. Just an illiberal form of it.

>>129812939
Well, IJN got absolutely shrekt by USA, and Japan spent all their efforts fortifying the south, not the North. Lack of experience in Naval invasion is a much bigger problem than a lack of transport.

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>>129812366
>Who fucking cares?
I care because I am morally opposed to genocide. I am not a narcissistic I care about more than my own financial prosperity. I care about White children not being replaced in their own countries and not walking as strangers in the country their ancestors founded.

The White race doesn't matter TO YOU. You are a White person who doesn't care if White people are racially cleansed from their own countries. My race, essentially my extended family, matters a great deal TO ME and I don't want to see us destroyed.

>Explain why not.
The numbers of Russians dead under the USSR.

>o i am laffin
o i am provin
http://pastebin.com/Uc1EkvGZ

>Scientists are unanimous on the idea that race is an absolutely and totally retarded way of categorizing humans.
Meanwhile...

Human Bio-Diversity Reading List
http://www.humanbiologicaldiversity.com/

Regardless, even IF race was only skin color and even IF the White race was the worst race on the planet the White race would still have the right to exist.

>How would it disproportionate hurt white people more than anyone else.
Whites would have to take care of all the lesser races. non_Whites would outbreed/mix with Whites.

>The man who you idiots claim invented "cultural Marxism" at the Frankfurt School of Witchcraft and Cuckoldry.
Who were all Jewish.

>He rightly identified that this destruction of traditition and culture was happening because of capitalism and being replaced by pop-culture.
Media is controlled by the Jews too. ;)

>Well because culture and tradition isn't some magic thing that belongs to white people.
White tradition and White culture belongs to White people.

>It's something everyone can contribute to.
In White countries and only White countries.

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>>129812854
>Humans are the means of production because they produce, more than anything else. you are an advocate of slavery.
Labor is used to operate the means of production, yes. Labor itself is not apart of the means of production.

>>129811541
>Because Asia is not and won't be flooded with millions of non-Asians.
Why wouldn't they?

I wouldn't mind moving to Japan in a full communist society.

>Except those things are destroying the White race, White traditions and White culture.
Yeah and they're also destroying Islamic traditions and culture. Because those "traditions" and "cultures" are fucking backwards.

If your "culture" is being wiped out by women have rights then good riddance.

>Homosexuals and trannies are mentally ill.
>Women are not people. They're women.
>Men are not people. They're men.
All of the above are people and deserve to be treated as such.

>Power. Control.
In a society with no state, no classes, and no money how are they going to get power or control?

>And that's exactly what the Jews want. a single mutt race with no heritage, culture or history controlled by their Jewish masters (who are still Jewish)
And how are de Jooz going to escape this?
With Israel? In case you haven't noticed virtually every communist alive wants Israel to be destroyed.

>Under National Socialism the exist to serve the people and help them to thrive.
So how are they not serving the economy and making money?
You said the exact same thing but just changed some words around so it sounds nicer.

>>129812909
>The Russian Empire was mostly feudalist.
Do you even know what the word feudalist means? Russia abolished serfdom in the mid 19th century, you fucktard. By the times of the revolution, agriculture was entirely free.

> It had some industry, but in 1913 agriculture made up about ~50% percent of the economy which is an insane amount
Yeah, because they actually produced surplus food. Then the commies took over, the amount of food produced tanked because commies can't into agriculture, and everyone starved. But at least production of low quality pig iron quintupled! Great success!

>An industrial country for reference, industry should make up at least ~75% of the economy, but preferably 80 to 90 percent.
Why? That is so arbitrary.

I'd rather live in "agricultural" New Zealand than in Shenzhen.

And the really hilarious thing is that I bet you never stepped foot inside a factory, and probably struggle to change a lightbulb.

>>129812779
>You haven't actually explained anything. You may as well have just said "nuh uh".
I literally have to explain THREE TIMES, because you didn't get it yet. Likely because your background in economics is none.

Asking people for what they want is NOT the equivalent of an economical demand. If you ask me what I want, I will say I want more of everything and at greater quality. There's no information flowing when you do that, there's no meaningful choice being made. People need to have a limit on what they can just withdraw from society for multiple, very, very obvious reasons, two of them are: people should be allowed to steal from society more than they produce, and people need to make meaningful decisions to properly value resources.

>"but there's no value".
Then take a lower wage job that is more difficult. Oh wait, turns out that material has value, and in fact, you don't want less value. What a surprise! Turns out that the economics academia has things better figured ou than some 20yo communist little shit!


>Well besides the fact that if no one works we're all going to starve to death. That's the incentive.
No, you fucking idiot. That's the exact opposite of an incentive. The fact that I'm getting free food, means I don't have to make food. Your system would make everyone starve themselves, it is a tragedy of the commons. There's no incentive for me to produce for 1/300 000 000 people in the hops that every single fucking person will produce 1/300 000 000 for me. It would be fucking insanity.

>>129812366
>Who fucking cares?
You will if all the white people disappear and the only ones left are dumbass niggers and mongrels. But hey at least you'll get your leftist, multicultural society free of hate, right? At least for the time being.

>This is not to say genetic differences don't exist, but they're not centred around racial lines. The only meaningful thing someone's race tells you is what colour they are
Along with differences in bone structure, craniometrics, muscle composition, neurological traits, hormone levels and susceptibility to different diseases. Human pigmentation distribution is just another expression of human diversity.

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>>129813451
The Japanese, communist?

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>>129813206
Yes, but a Soviet naval invasion would have never been able to occur before the United States invaded them first.

>Japan spent all their efforts fortifying the south, not the North
Pretty sure they spent their time fortifying everywhere, it's not like we couldn't have invaded from the north

>>129813442
Define the means of production, you absolute fucking idiot

>>129813495
>Do you even know what the word feudalist means? Russia abolished serfdom in the mid 19th century, you fucktard. By the times of the revolution, agriculture was entirely free.
Serfdom was only abolished on paper. If you knew Russian history, you'd know that.

>Yeah, because they actually produced surplus food.
Actually, famine was pretty commonplace in the Empire. As a common rule of thumb, higher the percentage of agriculture takes up the economy, the more food scarcity and hunger problems are there.

This is now a Marxist-Leninist-Hoxhaist thread.

>>129797593
Keeb ub the good wurg :DDDD

>>129805385
Do you know where you are?

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>>129813722
Ask nicely.

>>129813167
What a surprise, you dodged the question.
Can you explain how do you know whether a good is worth its costs in a communist system? How do you value the resources to know whether you are creating wealth and improving instead of consuming yourself to a total collapse?

Can you explain to me why countries with unconditional marxist leadership for over 50 years like North Korea never managed to abolish money? Could it have something to do with what I'm trying to explain to you? Could it be that you are delusional?

>>129813302
To be honest I empathize with your pledge, there it's a need for white populations to ensure a future for themselves, but you have to realize how that goes against everything society has been building upon since we abandoned tribalism.

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>>129796884

Op this is your mother I am sorry to interfere while you are with your friends on 4cham but your chicken tendies are finished and they are getting cold. You know your father gets angry at me when I waste food.
Also bring me that empty cereal bowl from underneath your bed please sweetie

>>129801514
Not to be a commie symtheasizer. But deep learning ai can teach it's self how to code. Thats when shit gets scary tho.

>>129813760
>Serfdom was only abolished on paper. If you knew Russian history, you'd know that.
>le if you have a boss you're a serf meme
Kill yourself

>Actually, famine was pretty commonplace in the Empire
No it wasn't, a single famine happened in the late 1800s, in a remote region of the Empire at a time when transportation was lacking, and even then it killed only 500 000 people.

The soviets killed millions through artificial famines at a more technologically advanced time. There is no excuse.

>As a common rule of thumb, higher the percentage of agriculture takes up the economy, the more food scarcity and hunger problems are there.
Not necessarily you stupid retard. Most of New Zealand's exports are agricultural products.

>>129814093
It can teach itself to ape code, but not to design and implement ideas.

>>129813495
>Russia abolished serfdom in the mid 19th century
+- 70 years prior to the revolution

The majority of other european countries abolished it between the 15th and 18th century.

Just to put it in a perspective.

>By the times of the revolution, agriculture was entirely free
What do you mean with "entirely free"? Most of the land was still owned by the elites

>Yeah, because they actually produced surplus food.
Famine was endemic in Tsarist Russia. A major famine happened every 20 years. USSR literally ended the famines.

>That is so arbitrary.
It's called economics. You should learn a bit

>And the really hilarious thing is that I bet you never stepped foot inside a factory, and probably struggle to change a lightbulb.
projecting

>>129813710
Nah, after Iwo Jima and Okinawa, the route which USA was taking was obvious.

>>129813907
>Can you explain how do you know whether a good is worth its costs in a communist system?
The best way I'd say is through the socially necessary labor time.

>How do you value the resources to know whether you are creating wealth and improving instead of consuming yourself to a total collapse?
You see production numbers, growth, standard of living. You really don't need money.

>Can you explain to me why countries with unconditional marxist leadership for over 50 years like North Korea never managed to abolish money?
That varies depending on who you ask. Trotsky and his supporters famously described the USSR and later it's puppets as state-capitalist. I'm not sure if this is an accurate analysis on part of the Trotskyites, but it is clear North Korea as abandoned Marxism a long time ago, if they ever really followed it.

Is there a new thread?

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>Imagine libertarians had convinced a majority that they were right
>Imagine if things only got worst whenever individualist values were applied
>Imagine if Mises had ordered a thug to beat Milton Friedman to death with an ice-axe for not being libertarian enough
>Imagine libertarians controlling nations for over 70 years without opposition
>Imagine after 70 of undisputed renaissance western libertarian values, their accomplishments were places like China, Cuba, North Korea
This is the historical reality commies live in. These are the people saying that they ideology will one day work. These are the people saying that libertarian western values that made all first world countries are the worst thing ever. This is why throwing commies out of helicopters is not wrong. This is why regimes that exterminated commie political activists did nothing wrong.

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kill yourself lmao

>>129814321
>What do you mean with "entirely free"? Most of the land was still owned by the elites
That is they weren't artificially tied down to land. There was a great deal of internal migration in the Russian Empire.

>Famine was endemic in Tsarist Russia. A major famine happened every 20 years.
Complete lies, you must be confusing Tsarist Russia with the Soviet Union.

>It's called economics. You should learn a bit
LOL a commie lecturing me about economics. Like a virgin lecturing about his sex techniques.

>projecting
Am I though? Have you ever worked a day in your life in an industrial plant? Be honest.

>>129814484
The Bolsheviks (and Trotsky by proximity) immediately decided they didn't like worker comitees and betrayed the revolution in 1918

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>>129814113
I would respond but really this fine gentlemen here >>129814321 responded for me.

A few things I'd also like to touch on:
>
The soviets killed millions through artificial famines at a more technologically advanced time. There is no excuse.
The Soviet Union couldn't control weather. The famines that happened under it was due to unsually bad weather and the kulaks raising hell. Luckily Stalin squashed them.

>Not necessarily you stupid retard. Most of New Zealand's exports are agricultural products.
New Zealand is a post-industrial 21st century country. You're trying to compare apples to oranges with that.

>Kill yourself
Learn some history and economics please.

>>129814093
Do you know what any of those terms actually mean or are you just repeating popsci shit you heard on tedx?

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>>129814333
Okay, but the USA was ready to drop 13 atomic bombs before even considering an invasion (which would have involved the dropping of another 7 atomic bombs), and said invasion would have included millions of men, hundreds of capital ships, thousands of aircraft, chemical weapons, and millions of deaths.

You're saying the Soviets could more or less do the same invasion with just troop transports and a fuckton of infantry before the USA took over Japan.

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>>129813451
>Why wouldn't they?
Same reason they don't right now. No one wants to flood into non-White subhuman countries.

>Yeah and they're also destroying Islamic traditions and culture. Because those "traditions" and "cultures" are fucking backwards.
No, they're not. Islam traditions are not threatened with multiculturalism and diversity.

If your "culture" is being wiped out by women have rights then good riddance.
Feminism ≠ female rights.

National Socialist Germany had no feminism and women did fine. (until you commies raped them all)

>All of the above are people and deserve to be treated as such.
Nope. Men/women should be treated like men/women. faggots deserve mental hospitals.

>In a society with no state, no classes, and no money how are they going to get power or control?
You really think they wouldn't be the leaders? lol

>And how are de Jooz going to escape this?
By still controlling it.

>With Israel? In case you haven't noticed virtually every communist alive wants Israel to be destroyed.
And what really matters is that Jews will still be in power and Israel will still exist.

>So how are they not serving the economy and making money?
Because they're serving the people. making money is secondary and does not come at the expense of the people.