AnCap Debate

It's a yuge meme

>>129544985
Just be bottom-right quadrant with most normal people. It's what you want without the weird logistic and moral quandaries.

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>>129544985
debunk this

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>>129544985
>2017
>having an ideology

>>129544985
The non-aggression principle is really a set of common sense moral ideas about the proper use of force. It is by no means an absolute metric.

Ancap is the result of simply applying these principles to the state. For instance, I cannot rob someone to pay for a charity. But the state essentially does the same thing with welfare programs. There is no relevant moral difference.


Read Huemer. And Rothbard too, if you haven't already.

>>129545539
Area of effect would affect the non-consenting. Solve that.

you're probably looking for minarchism

also ancaps, what's the solution to massive criminal gangs taking control? i've never gotten a response to this, only "hurr what you think DA GUBMINT is"

>>129544985
>sorry the pic says tumblr, I saved the first thing on google images when I searched up ancap

Why didn't you just change the filename when saving the image? You'll fit in great with the ancap crowd, retard.

>>129545684
Who cares if you or anyone consents or not. Why can't I own a nuke in ancap?

>>129544985
>muh roads

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congestion_pricing

>muh schools

http://tomwoods.com/d/educbook.pdf

>>129545825
You could. This is where ancap starts falling apart, but ownership doesn't imply use.

>>129545825
>Why can't I own a nuke in ancap?
you could but then everyone else would as well, or the price of a nuke would be so high only certain people could own nukes

>>129544985
"i want to pick an ideology"
why the fuck would you ever.

>>129545908
>ownership doesn't imply use.
Correct. Would there be any way to regulate me from arming it and launching though?

>>129545962
>you could but then everyone else would as well, or the price of a nuke would be so high only certain people could own nukes
Well how about just Mark Zuckerberg and all his billionaire friends who decide to enslave us all?

>>129545979
Repercussions would be your deterrent, if we're going by the book.

>>129545979
when you have a nuke thats available for sale you best believe anti nuke devices will be readily available for sale as well

>>129544985
>American Public School
>education

Public school is brain rotting cancer.

>>129546024
>Repercussions would be your deterrent, if we're going by the book.
Not sure the US suffered any repercussions from using them. Why would Mark Zuckerberg and his billionaire friends? If they wanted to enslave us, you'd have to saved by a nation that isn't ancap.

>>129544985
there's a demand for roads, so roads will be built.

Regardless, libertarianism is a negative philosophy, so the burden of proof isn't on ancaps; it's on statists.

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>>129545733
Contractual rights enforcement agencies would provide for common defense against gangs. When it comes to neighborhoods of dindus, though, I wouldn't be surprised to see gangs take over.

>>129546070
But what if the nuke owners buy up all the anti nuke companies and destroy the technology and kill off everyone aware of the technology?

>>129546138
You mean the A bombs against Japan? Well it ended the war, so people just kind of left it. It didn't happen in a vacuum.

Mutually assured destruction is exactly what you're asking about though.

>>129546138
>Why would Mark Zuckerberg and his billionaire friends?
bad PR = bad for business = less profits = not a billonaire anymore

>>129546249
>bad PR = bad for business = less profits = not a billonaire anymore
What do they care about business anymore when they have nukes and just enslave everyone to do their bidding? Who needs PR if the demos are all slaves?

These are all very interesting points. Please continue.

>>129546246
>But what if the nuke owners buy up all the anti nuke companies and destroy the technology and kill off everyone aware of the technology?
okay i love H Y P O T H E T I C A L S as much as the next guy but the point im getting across is that if there's a nuke that's going to be for sale there's going to be anti-nuke devices with high demand because people will be afraid to lose their property and earnings, you cant kill innovation or ideas no matter how hard you try

>>129546135
You're not wrong but I was born into poverty so I'm not sure I would be more than a street sweeper in an ancap society

>>129546425
That's fair enough, and I was just kind of having fun with that tangent. But back to my main point. The Bilderberg club could just decide to buy up enough nukes to enslave anyone who can't afford nukes. Which makes ancap simply a direct catalyst to tyranny.

>>129545743
Touche

>>129546314
>when they have nukes and just enslave everyone to do their bidding?
only nukes cant simply enslave people, you'll need people on the ground, police officers/fascist enforcers, some group of people to enforce your will. And if people see you doing that they'll be wary in using your product considering what predicament you sent out.

>>129545825
Because reality is not a computer game.

>>129544985
DOWN SYNDROME INCARNATE

>>129546610
That is true. There would definitely be resistance areas that look a lot like Afghanistan. However, that's not much more ideal.

>>129546683
not an argument

>>129546688
Why am I a down syndrome incarnate

>>129546826
KILL SELF

>>129544985
>I don't know if I'd be educated without free public school and of course muh roads.
education would be pushed towards the masses simply because it fulfills a need and it'll be subject to competition. The roads will be maintained by the people who will inhabit the local area and the nicer the road is the more people will be drawn to it, anymore questions?

>>129546713
so are you going to mine the uranium ore, refine it, forge and machine the casings, design and build the electronics, including making your own silicon chips of course?

None of these things would be cheap or easily available even if you had a lot of money.

And just how much would you have if your ancap system was established without a redistribution of land and assets at the start of it?

The Rothschilds would still own the planet and if what little protect governments give us from them owuld be gone.

AnCaps are stupid spoiled little rich boys who don't want to share and have never had to work hard for anything or go without the basics of life.

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>>129547088

>>129547107
Well this>>129547209
guy makes a point

>>129547381
yeah you have down syndrome

>>129544985
This is how most of my free society conversations go:

>but then the corporations will just strong arm every one

without the government stopping people, private citizens would be allowed to forcefully retaliate against or remove larger entities that have aggressed upon them


>but the corporations will have all the money so they'll just send the corporate army they can hire after the private citizens

to which I reply something like
The corporation wouldn't be able to get that big in the first place under this paradigm. Every business entity would have hundreds of competitors in all areas without the government allowing monopolies and creating hurdles to enter a specific field

then the argument shifts to
>but then you'll have places that decide to hang black people/poor people/any minority group


those people will have the freedom to move to an area that doesn't behave like that, or defend themselves as forcefully as they wish

then they say something like
>but they're poor they cant do that

So I say that under such a paradigm they would have had infinitely more opportunities to not be poor

>but what if they're still poor

Do you want to try, and fail, to save everyone at the cost of personal sovereignty and liberty?

>Oh yeah well whats to stop a DR from being free from oversight and start killing people or treating them improperly

people will stop going to that DR once it is found out he sucks, and then will go to a different one

>what if they dont know he sucks

its up to them to find out if a DR sucks before taking the pills he gives them. freedom remember?

>oh yeah well what about the roads. how would we get anywhere


this is usually when I just leave

>>129547573
You've made a good case, now can you debunk the meme I posted Originally?

>>129547209
>None of these things would be cheap or easily available even if you had a lot of money.
clearly.
>And just how much would you have if your ancap system was established without a redistribution of land and assets at the start of it?
>people own land with uranium underneath
>others pay for the mining of uranium materials
>the mining company gives the uranium to scientists or others for a price
its really not that hard to imagine, also for the fact that education would be needed for all the mining and how the materials are made and how they work together would also bring about a new industry of different areas relating to nuclear materials and the usage.

Im no going to go around saying that Jews wont be jews even in a anarchist capitalist planet or country, monopolies and ethical issues with labor would be a tremendous problem with an ancap society

>>129547900
I imagine unions would still be pretty rampant and possibly even violent/militant so that might solve the unethical labor practices, and I think if everyone hated a company enough they'd probably force it split up with torches and pitchforks

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Debunk this meme if yall would

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And this one

>>129544985
underage 17 year old detected

>>129549129
You'd have me just be a liberal like other millennials instead of getting arguments from people other than teenagers and liberal teachers and the old baby boomers that live in my community?

>>129548885
they save you anyway but you have to pay the full price for everything they do afterward

>>129544985
It can never work in real world.

most of the ancap memes come from /pol/ and are recycled by tumblr and reddit.
even people who are sympathetic to the ideas here make them for the keks.
which is why there are so many more ancap memes than ancom memes/
the left in general has less infighting and less inclination to have fun and make jokes about themselves or other factions of their 'side'.

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>>129546591
>touche

>>129545539
>legalize
You mean deregulate?

>>129544985
The easiest way to debunk it is just taking the name at face value. It implies that order with arise from chaos ie anarchy. It is hilariously delusional to think that society will spontaneous organize and follow some autistic rule set.
>>129547573
>The corporation wouldn't be able to get that big in the first place under this paradigm. Every business entity would have hundreds of competitors in all areas without the government allowing monopolies and creating hurdles to enter a specific field
Several fllaws with your theory, nepotism, mafias, thinking everyone is capable of running a business, gov creating monopolies etc

>>129544985
>implying someone doesn't own the ocean.

>>129545733
>what's the solution to massive criminal gangs taking control?
The mafia is seen as a lesser evil by the police, and neighborhoods under mafia control are more secure.

>>129544985
>I'm considering X as my ideology
Read Eric Hoffer's The True Believer. Then come back to us.

>>129544985
The NPA does not exist in nature, therefor it does not exist without massive societal enforcement.

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>>129544985
>picking ideologies
You absolute moron. Go to /his/ and /lit/ and read a few books first, stop falling for memes spewed by people with an agenda

>>129553236
it does though
and it's the NAP not the NPA
try upsetting a wild animal and see where that takes you

>>129544985
How are you going to actually have ancapistan? What if a person decides to reject the NAP as a guiding philosophy?

>>129544985
you can't just OWN land that's a strawman and not what the NAP is about. using land is a violation of the NAP so you have to pay for it like a fine proportional to the violation (time, resources, area, etc)
why am i even explaining this to you faggots who get your political beliefs from fucking MEMES

>>129545657
this tbq honest senpai
just think: do you have the same beliefs today as the ones you had a year ago? a month? no! my worldview is constantly evolving so the propability of me being correct THIS TIME is fucking nil

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read this, also consider neocameralism and monarchy
arm yourself with complete and thought out ideas and remember we all share the goal of combating the left

>>129546533
the bigger your impact on the world the larger your NAP violation which means the larger your fines are. at some point you just have to stop growing your business, estate, etc because the fines will grow out of control.
yes, using land and even breathing are a violation of the NAP and must be paid for proportional to time and space and God-given resources used
this is NAP 101 bro catchup

>>129554635
>>129554309
>using land is a violation of the NAP so you have to pay for it like a fine proportional to the violation
>the larger your NAP violation which means the larger your fines are
who are you paying then?
does that person own the land, the air etc.
if not then why do I have to pay them

>>129547573
>The corporation wouldn't be able to get that big in the first place
They already are that big, they just don't have permission to be openly violent. Why are you assuming this civilization is starting from scratch?

>>129554830
you're paying humanity which is basically just the government so yes government CAN and has to exist in an NAP-founded society to keep and spend the treasury of the violation fines. the way the treasury is spent is open to other ideas because the NAP only deals with fines, not how to spend the fines.

>>129555343
>>129554830
the fines would technically belong to God since we are God's creations (Spinoza's God, metaphorical) and humans are abusing God's resources (land, air, water, other humans, oil, etc) so God would be the arbiter here.
Realistically, a human will elevate to Godhood and be in charge of the treasury and the way it's spent. So there's ironically a fascistic element here.

>>129555343
>>129555584
>being this wrong
you're paying the ones in your area of influence
for example if you contaminate a river you pay fines to those who have lands down the river from your factory

>>129556400
not just them
you're also using up god given resources
YOU HAVE TO PAY

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>>129545733
The solution is to make your own gang. Government is already a big gang, take my money to spend it on niggers and wars. Which one is worse? Maybe both are as bad as each other. At least I am not forced to pay for some degenerate transnigger faggot shit, and public education and military welfare queens.

>>129559672
That's not how it works

>>129544985

It's illegal to use a legal name. Good luck with the opinion ideology, dude.

One thing I don't understand about Ancapistan:
If you were about to invite guests at your house, how would they know you wouldn't (legally) kill them?
Would they have to sign some kind of agreement?

>>129544985
>not owning the ocean

Well an AnCap society, any anarchist for that matter, will always hinder success, because more energy needs to be focus around surviving, so less focus is put on the Improvement of living conditions etc.

AnCap will be the fairest way to everybody, but not the best, libertarianism is the way to go.

>>129562477
>>129544985

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What most people dont understand is that an ancap society will rapidly evolve into something like a district/town system with athenian democracy (of propetry owners) or something similar (a council of elders for example). It will basically be U.S. at the time of founding fathers all over again. Watch a movie called "The Village" and add internet to the mix.

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>>129562553
>he thinks the U.S. at the time of founding fathers wouldn't be the hottest shit this side of the milky way
Step aside motherfucker.

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>>129562642

>implying i've think that

>>129562553
that still relies on the notion that you manage to indoctrinate everyone into your autism otherwise you end up with somalia

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>>129544985

>>129544985
If this ideology came true the jews will be the ones exploiting it the most

>>129563069
Alright, then we can agreed striving for an ancap society is a good thing.

Any form of anarchy is retarded

Go libertarian instead

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>>129563429

>end up like somalia

Yeah because we're like niggers. First time i will do in an ancap society will be to associate myself with other propetry owners who want no niggers and sandniggers around (in their district/town)

>>129563515

of course pal

>>129563752
>italy
>not niggers

>>129548885
Why would you be getting raped? Just shoot the attacker. Even with full coverage police sub (which is stupid to even entertain there would be coverage levels), it will take them time to respond.

Also if you are being raped how are you going to call it in?

>>129548937
IP laws are not part of an ancap society, and bombing someone is a clear violation of the NAP


Are you actually fucking retarded asking people to debunk these?

>>129563824
so no state to enforce IP laws, what is it that enforces the NAP?

>>129563810

>Italy

we're italians.

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>>129563810
See Pic
>>129563897
The People would, everybody would just gun down his neighbour if he "broke the NAP"

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>>129544985
I'm not an ancap, I'm a minarchist, but since my ideology overlaps with ancapism quite a lot:
>roads
>education
Pic related.
>NAP
The NAP will be enforced by the landowner, and by renters if the landowner allows.

>>129563964
what if the people breaking the NAP have more guns/people? More to the point - everyone is agreeing on this in your fantasy, but why wouldn't the people that benefit from it (ie media corps) want IP laws, even without a state they would be able to exert enough influence to have them de facto.

>>129563964
>The People would
why?
>>129564015
>The NAP will be enforced by the landowner
why? Wouldn't the people breaking the NAP also be landowners?

>>129563810
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rynqbJ53DBE

>>129564015
Whats wrong with goverment being in charge of the basic infrastructure?

Hospitals are a big issue, if half the population does not want to pay for a hospital, because "i never get sick" it wont be accessable when necessary
>>129564142
Dont get me wrong, im no AnCap, enforcing law would be up to the individuals, and if they could not nobody will.

>>129564183
Well If you steal my stuff i have a vesten interest in punishing you/getting my stuff back.
If somebody murders you father you murder them, etc. I dont like that concept, but that is what it boils down to.

>>129546246
>>129545825
>>129545908
>>129544985
>>129545539
>>129546138

Non-aggression principle.

>>129546246


But what if I create irrational hypothetical where your system doesn't work, then it wouldn't work, rite?

You're assuming anti-nukers will sell their entire enterprise to nukers, then you're assuming all anti nukers will do this almost simultaneously in order to ensure no new enterprises formed. Then after all current anti-nukers are out of business, you will have to somehow keep all owners of anti-nuke products from reverse engineering their product, as well as halt and suppress all possible development worldwide of anti-nukes, Which there will be enormous demand for given you just killed all the competition. To get a lasting outcome you will also have to confiscate all anti-nuke devices worldwide to prevent said reverse-engineering, as well as imprison all engineers worldwide who have the know-how to create such devices from raw materials. It would also be necessary to ban the books and all information regarding anti-nukes in order to prevent any ley-men from getting this knowledge, and of course you would have to shut own all institutions with relations to engineering/nuclear science. As you can see your effort to "just launch a nuke at someone" is getting quite entangled. Then of course it's the issue of getting commercially available nukes in the first place, which we must also assume.
I could go on, but I expect you to get the point by now.

Given you can effectively do all this ^ you might have a chance at it. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting.

>>129546533
And that scenario will be very different from what we have now, right?
If you're following what's going on in the world you will have noticed we already have an elite dictating to us what will happen in our future. I don't think mass invasion from the 3rd world would go quite as well with no welfare state.
But if we try this I think we might become slaves. We're already slaves nigger.

>>129564288
So it's not "the People" enforcing it, but the specific individuals who are under attack.
The society can only exist if the defenders are always stronger than the attackers.
>>129564354
>Non-aggression principle
Actually explain how you plan to establish that principle in a society that's comprised of human beings, who are aggressive by nature.

>>129564250
The nog is barely darker than him and less criminal, thanks for proving my point

>>129548885
In an Ancap society it would likely make the most sense for the law-and-order organization a given area is employing to help you anyway.

I suspect people who live in any given area do not want crime taking place willy nilly in their town/neighborhood/etc. So, if someone is getting raped in an alleyway, there will people to help. We don't want rapes in the neighborhood, even if you can't pay.

What I want, is a clean and safe neighborhood. Which is why me and my neighbors fund the Gold Plan for the whole area, which means no alleyway rapes allowed.

>>129564454
Yes I agree, thats why I am not an AnCap, but in the scenario of Anarcho Capitalism enforcing laws would be down to the individual, mostly individuals whos rights were violated.

>>129544985
Check out not-an-argument-man's website, he wrote a book answering questions like this one. "Practical Anarchy." Free book.

>>129564626
I haven't read his crap, but he always just says insurance or private court or PMC basically. Which is just kicking the can.

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>>129564459

you're a fucking leaf, you cant have a "point" in a debate.

>>129564809
truth hurts baby

>>129545539
nukes dont exist

>>129545733
Back in the day, gangs ran Las Vegas better than the government do now.

I'm not AnCap btw, that's just a shit argument.

>>129564952
kind of a shit example, who would say the media is better run as a mafia?

>>129565033
So you think the government does better now? How old are you?

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>>129564876
Italy Murder Rate 0.78
Canada Murder Rate 1.68
What are you on about?

>>129565152
No I'm saying you picked an example that supports your point of view when there are obvious examples that do not.

>>129544985
The only problem I have with the NAP is how subjective it is. Say I build an absolutely obscene house on my property beside your property. Did I violate the NAP by reducing your property value by constructing my obscene purple dildo house or are you violating the NAP by trying to force me to alter my own property on my own property for your benefit?

>>129565209
I would think like japan you can't trust the crime stats because mafia. Also you can't compare to canada we are talking ethnicities

>>129565237
So you can't prove that gangs are less effective than the government. Got it.

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>>129545979
Assume you live in a society that punishes violations of the NAP because it's basically the only real rule. You do so well in this society that you can afford highly dangerous weapons.

Your next great plan is to threaten a large group of people with nuclear weapons, motivating them to end your life in self defense. Simultaneously you will be violating the only social contract everyone agrees on, isolating yourself from everyone in your society, including people of equal means. You expect this to go well.

Totally a realistic hypothetical. Billionaires are all suicidal idiots.

A hated king is ultimately a dead king.

>>129564454
I'm not aggressive by nature unless you attack me. Answer me this: Would you aggress violently against someone who's never done you wrong?
Do you think it is right to do so? Would you stand up against those who do that to others?
I am aware that not everyone is mature enough for this kind of thinking, and the personal responsibility that follows. That doesn't mean it is morally wrong though.

Explain to me how you get a whole society to accept the that a thin sheet of paper has enormous value, thousands of times the intrinsic value of the paper?

The fact that I cannot explain how something will be implemented does not mean it will never be implemented. I am not Stalin, that's not how social innovation works.

Who will pick all the cotton when we abolish slavery? They didn't know, yet they abolished slavery. The problem solved it self shortly after by mechanization.


>>129564621

The point of anarchism is voluntary interaction. You can still form organizations and pay money to them, but they will be voluntary. Insurance, police, dispute resolutions, defence.All this can be organized on a voluntary basis. Anarchism means no rulers, meaning no force applied to you from above in a hierarchy. Basically look at the society you have, then remove politicians and tax. Everyone should still contribute but they will choose to what. Imagine what would happen to asylum centers when they require voluntary funding.

>>129565366
Would you like to buy a rock? It keeps tigers away.

>>129546492
Back in Oliver twist days books were literally too expensive for most people. We've since solved that.

If you think people won't try to educate the masses even without the state, you don't know the history of education.

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>>129565309

Stay rekt leaf. A country that approve something like bill C-16 only deserve to be gassed, nuked and salted to avoid every life form will again have a chance of happening in that territory.

>>129565581
Why do you think I care about canada?

>>129546533
Imagine for a second that there was no state to be mad at. How long does the CEO of Evil inc. live when there's no proxy to hide behind? Especially when inevitably stepping on the toes of other powerful entities. The assassin's veto is very real. No company has the resources to dominate everything.

>>129565309
Oh so "less white" is your argument for Italy being bad, that sound completely reasonable.

>>129565459
Yeah and that is the issue, like I stated here>>129562477 it will only make Humanity less effective. Also the Problem with voluntary interraction is what happens if you fail to prepare for something, if you have a seriouse issue and need medical treatment, but cant pay you will come back with your gun to get you treatment, so either you become the agressor, and get what you want, or you get shot.

>>129565811
that's not what I said at all and you two getting this butthurt over a joke and arguing this poorly proves the truth of it

>>129565627

I do not think you care about your land. One who, speaking to an European, think in "white/nigger" dualism cleary dont understand what mean to care about your nation and your home.
Even more reason to nuke your country.

>>129547471
He really doesn't. If the Rothschild's couldn't hide behind state puppet proxies they'd be killed immediately for violating the NAP or their security costs would become so high even their wealth would run out eventually. It's cheaper for them to buy out entire governments than to be exposed.

>>129565913
Italians are mudblooded "euros" the remants of a few romans and their mass of foreign slaves & immigrants

>>129565917
how would you even find out who owns a company in ancap?

>>129565898
You said italy are niggers yet italy has a higher average iq and less then half of canadas murder rate, how is that argued poorly?

It's not about "European pride" or hurt feelings, it's just north Americans spewing ignorant stuff.

>>129565459
Even if you aren't, which I doubt, individual cases mean nothing. We're talking about the primal, biological nature of a species, not people's personalities.
>Would you aggress violently against someone who's never done you wrong?
Yes. "Doing me wrong" is an ethical issue, there's plenty of things that hold higher authority on our decision making than morals.
>Do you think it is right to do so?
It can be, or it can be wrong. But my opinion on that means nothing unless I'm actually involved somehow.
>Would you stand up against those who do that to others?
If I thought they were doing wrong, and I had the means to.

>Explain to me how you get a whole society to accept that a thin sheet of paper has enormous value
Violence.
>The fact that I cannot explain how something will be implemented does not mean it will never be implemented.
It means you're failing to convince people to follow it. Isn't that the point of these discussions?

>Who will pick all the cotton when we abolish slavery? They didn't know, yet they abolished slavery.
The people who abolished slavery in the US didn't care too much about who'd pick the cotton. They abolished it to break down the South's economy, make it dependent on reintegration with the North.

>>129564526
Private police forces in Detroit actually did this. Policed poor areas for free because it kept the rich safer at less cost.

>>129547573
>When there's roads

>>129565266
>Queer eye for the leaf goy
Tackyness is not aggression.

>>129566116
canada isn't a racial state is it? secondly as I said in mafia controlled places the crime stats are not reliable obviously and thirdly if IQ was as important as you think asians would have ruled the world

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>>129565973

>continue spewing bullshits
>get rekt even harder

again, gas yourself

>>129562477
>>129565811

If you are sincere there will be options available in such a case. Granted you choose to never contribute to charities, have no friends, have horded a lot of money, then gambles all away, then fall deathly sick, you will be in a terrible position, solely by your own making. Is it right that others should then pay up for you?

Others would encourage you to contribute, like they do now, insure you car, house, health(USA).
Of course no system can guarantee the well being of those that consistently and with purpose makes decisions that won't benefit them in the long run. Good thing with anarchy is others are not forced to subsidize such behavior.

I do recognize your critique and it is fair, hedonists will have a hard time in anarchy and must be helped to make good decisions.

Your point about surviving I don't understand, no matter what society, survival will always be primal. Ensuring food, safety, property, health.
Anarchism will make you ensure your own survival, instead of for instance thinking, the police will save you from, when they use 10 minutes to get to you in emergency. You will be allowed to be armed and defend yourself in a free society

>>129565811
>What happens if you fail to prepare for something?

with decentralized structures and individuals: local failures we can learn from.

With centralized institutions: often, collapse of the system

>>129544985
It's the same Jewish bait as communism. They put economy at the first place and forget about what really matters. Sort of primitive materialism which is typical of Jews.

>>129566028
Probably from dispute mediation firms or something. Any company with investors or public interactions will be forced to disclose.

But in even the shittiest hypothetical situation, I assume we can always just torture a high ranking employee.

>>129563964
>everybody would just gun down his neighbour if he "broke the NAP"

This is so dumb, common sense rules in private courts. If you neighbor steps on your lawn and you shoot him you will get buttfucked for being an idiot.

>>129563897
Self defense, private security firms.
https://mises.org/system/tdf/14_1_2_0.pdf?file=1&type=document

>>129564142
see above pdf

>>129566409
Is that supposed to prove you're roman?

>>129546209

Oh, like a government?

>>129546610
It would just be a lawless land of warlords like everywhere else.

>>129566279
I don't know what you mean with "canada isn't a racial state is it?"

Mafia is a fair point

Asians will rule the world, if they had adopted free market systems earlyer they would probably be ahead of us, It's just like the norics, 2000 years ago sweden and norway were noway near as advanced as Syria Turkey and Italy, but now they passed them, they just needed that initial startup help.

>>129566424
Society would not encurage you to contribute, because you dont need to, wjy would you be mad if your neighbor is lazy, if you dont pay for hist gibs.

The society will always be on the edge to a civil war, look how some communist revolutions started, people are easy to really up and fight agains "Opression", even if its not the goverment but rater "evil corporation" exploiting people.

On the last point of survival: It's pretty hard to starve in Norway or germany, if you not a drug addict or otherwise retarded, the goverment keeps the dumb and poor alive, this wouldn't be the case in Anarchy, thus surviving is harder.
>>129566954
Well i dont mean for steppiing on your lawn but rather stealing something or commiting a murder, its not about the Punishment, my coment was about who would enforce such punishment.

>>129566538
Ancap society relies heavily on intercommunity trust. You HAVE to be apart of the community, and love and be loved unless you are rich enough to afford insurance for everything etc...

There is no welfare state, and everything is voluntary between parties so you can't be some asshole shut in or you disappear from society.

>>129567089
>Asians will rule the world
Which ones? because japan and china both can't into economics

>>129567089
Ancap society is socially Darwinist.

People who do not follow the laws will die, people will fail, people will disappear. It's an egalitarians worst nightmare.

If someone is stealing from you, just shoot them. If someone is in the act of murdering or threatening someone with deadly force as a bystander you can shoot them.

When real deadly instant consequences for criminal actions are the norm in society they will all but cease to exist. Crime rates would plummet into nothingness after the last generations of criminals are wiped from the earth.

>>129544985
We live largely in an an.cap end game world. NGOs and supranational companies rule states, governments and politics.

And it's fucking shit

>>129546209
Gangs wouldn't be able to take over, in a society with NAP they would kill each other at insanely accelerated rates compared to today's society.

Crime doesn't pay in a society where it's considered normal to kill someone breaking in, stealing, etc...

>>129567335
>crony capitalism is ancap

It's the fucking thing we fight against, grow a brain dude.

>>129567335
To be fair, I'm pretty sure all societies will eventually end up like that.

>>129567258
No they would not, all idealism is falsehood in the face of necessity. AnCap would create that necessity, unless you want to gun down thousands of people you will get huge problems. Humans are not naturally good, there is no reason to subject to marality,
You are just making daily living more difficult, because you don't want that 10% Tax,
while true that it will be natural selection at its finest you dont really profit if you quarter you Population every Generation.

>>129567471
>it was not true ancappery
sounds like a communist defense

khs

>>129567471
Ancap can't lead to Crony Capitalism becuase Might is illegal

>>129567019

for sure it proves you're a retard.

>>129567195
Asians are good at copying, they just need to find a system that works, They are very inteligent and have lots of human capital to work with, if they don't evolve into another episode of not real socialism/communism, they will probably overtake us.

>>129567667
http://www.giveshare.org/babylon/racechange.html

>>129567754
Are you not aware of Japan crashing their shit in the 80's and now china doing the same thing?

>>129544985
They are already buying waters of the world, even the moon. I don't think you can be kicked out of property in Ancap. No such thing as neutral/public property in Ancap, you always on somebody's land.

But that will not keep them down forever, look at south korea, they are up and running, or am i missing something crucial?

>>129567945
>>129567813

>>129544985
All that happens is corporations replace the roles a government normally performs but they have zero responsibility to the citizens in their domain period.

>>129567612
strawman, already answered by someone else in this thread, basically the power seen by crony capitalists is only obtainable by use of the state to enforce unequal laws.

>>129567565
>Humans are not naturally good, there is no reason to subject to marality,

What don't you get about the social darwinism intrinsic to ancap society? That's the best way to deal with your definition of human nature which I agree with completely. Humans are not good, therefore no one should be above anyone else because they will abuse that power.

>>129568038
>same arguement for the 5th time in this thread alone that's been debunked

>>129567905
All land is owned in by private entities in Ancap society, but not all land is for individual owner's use only.

Businesses have to have a way to get people in, tangled mess of unnavigatible properties would be a disaster and property values in an area like that would collapse because infrastructure and businesses wouldn't want to setup there.

>>129562553
Founding fathers had slaves and unlimited supply of buffalo and Indian rape bodies and they paid few dollars out of pocket money for USA to Napoleon and Russians. Ancap would charge for that at least trillion times more.

>>129567945
I don't know what you're missing, but in my experience asians lack a certain something. Whether it's longitudinal or visualspatial thinking I'm not sure, but they do seem to all display inherent statism and anti individualism.

>>129568252
Who regulates what money and how much money we use in Ancap? Regulation implies government and of course government police to punish those who cheat. How does ancap world decide which money to use and prevent cheating?

>>129564183
>why? Wouldn't the people breaking the NAP also be landowners?
Some would, and the other landowners would use retaliatory force in order to stop it. They would do this, as people do not want to be aggressed upon; thus non-NAP breaking landowners would dominate the market. NAP violators would exist, but would be kept in check by these non-NAP violating landowners.
>>129564015 (You) #
>Whats wrong with goverment being in charge of the basic infrastructure?
As long as they do not enforce a monopoly on it, and fund it through voluntary donations. Nothing.
>Hospitals are a big issue, if half the population does not want to pay for a hospital, because "i never get sick" it wont be accessable when necessary
The very vast majority of people will pay for hospitals. This won't necessarily be directly, but almost everyone will do so indirectly. Such as, possibly, via their health insurance.

>>129567760
>http://www.giveshare.org/babylon/racechange.html

>kike bullshit "professor" is better than scientific genetic research

kek

>>129568047
>strawmen
How is that a Strawmen, Big Corperations have Goverment like Power over its Clients and Workers, what do you want to do against that? You can try to fight them, just like you can now try to fight the goverment, the companys in that situation have very similar abilitys to the goverment. How do you think this is going to be prevented?

On the second Point, The Police are not Above the law, nobody should be above the law, that does not mean that mutually agreed upon laws are not benefiting society, if they are enforced on an industrial scale.

My main objection is that it would create massive poverty (well deserved maby), and will lead to large civil unrests, it may be possible to have some Small towns or small citys go ancap, but for a whole country that does not consist of only the best of the best, it will be disasterous.

>>129568341
Well that, and they seem to lack creativity, the chinese goverment seemes so inhumane (irrational, not cruel i mean) in their actions.
Japand just adopted Keynsian Economics without any Forsight, and now their dept is at 230% of their gdp.

>>129568484
Fucking phone >>129564288

>>129568252
>been debunked because there's totally no way they'd buy superior amounts of force and then ignore the NAP while using propaganda and false information to make whatever they do seem reasonable and fair to the people they aren't busy fucking over

your philosophy is a half-baked piece of shit that falls apart under the simplest knowledge of human history, psychology, and common fucking sense.

>>129568444
fiat curerncy wouldn't exist, if that is what you are asking.

There would be private banks with money backed by a commodity, and obviously contracts with other banks as insurance.

>>129568599
Communism fails because it goes against human nature
But anarchism totally works

>>129568532
were all the citations also kike professors? I mean we all know rome had a huge slave population so your theory that the genetics weren't influenced by them is absurd on the face isn't it?

>>129568633
You still didn't tell me which bank decides what money we use. Somebody has to decide for every thing what is to be used. Somebody has to write the original papers that describe the money we use and everybody else has to agree.

>>129568484
>They would do this, as people do not want to be aggressed upon
But those people aren't being aggressed upon, so they have no reason to get involved, besides principle.

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>>129567044
Yes, but voluntary, that's the whole point.

>>129568566
you don't have to fight corporations, just don't work for them or don't buy their products. You have the ultimate voluntary labor/dollar.

Police are above the law, they have special privileges we don't. I can't arrest people etc...

How would free markets create poverty when all the data shows that to be the opposite? Also when you boil it down, welfare leeches just die in ancap society, There wouldn't be a permanent underclass of parasites they would just die.

>>129568599
Nice argument, I can't argue against that. It's simple knowledge of human history after all.

>>129568679

>implying patrician or even plebs will breed with peregrini or slaves

You're a retarded commie who simply need the gas chamber. Thats all.

>>129568740
No bank does, there would be competing currencies... think outside the box of government.

Obviously businesses would only accept established currencies with proven reserves, but other than that you are free to use what money you want, and business are free to accept or reject any money they want. Owning the consequences of all of it at the same time

>>129568931
why did they make a law for it then?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_Papia_Poppaea

>>129568969
>only accept established currencies
You mean the currencies created by this government now and regulated by this government now? You even into logic? Money as we use it only exists because we all agreed to use, basically governments made us agree to using it and government controls it and when they don't do their job the money disappears. So in Ancap first money will disappear even more, but then everybody would be printing their own money and claiming that's the right money, eventually nobody wins, they all lose.

>>129568578
I agree with goverment not enforcing a monopoly, but certain types of infrastructure just need to be maintained, why should the goverment not ensure the funding to the vital parts of the infrastructure?
The whole argument for AnCap is that nobody is Stupid or that all dumb people will die out without causing significant harm, or revolting.
Where is that the case, why would everybody fund hospitals, why would they?
>>129568855
1. Energy Companys, Food Companys, Water Companys
You need these to live, you can't just avoid their product. Please dont act like "the free Market" will just create more engery companys, of course Fred will start splitting atoms in his basement to power the neighbourhood.

2. You can hold people until the Police arives, they are not really above the law, they have higher authority, but abuse will be punished, There is defenetly a Power hirarchy which you object to.
Free Markts generate wealth, and reduce poverty, i agree, but the poverty experienced will be much worse than in todays societys,
Also a free market system needs to avoid destruction, America only became prosperous after the state enforced Private ownership, and ende the Rule of the stronges. Thats how the Usa stopped being the wild west.

>>129568855
>you don't have to fight corporations, just don't work for them or don't buy their products. You have the ultimate voluntary labor/dollar.
But if you don't work for them you get no money and you die like you said. Somebody's gotta work for Walmart since they shit on all on the other local small shops because the shops can't access the same goods for a good price and can't lower prices to practically zero where as Walmart could.
>Police are above the law, they have special privileges we don't. I can't arrest people etc...
That is not being above the law. They can still go to jail being above the law means you can do anything you want and not worry

>How would free markets create poverty when all the data shows that to be the opposite? Also when you boil it down, welfare leeches just die in ancap society, There wouldn't be a permanent underclass of parasites they would just die.
This is your brain on ancap
100% of people are well off, anybody poor anywhere is just because their lazy and if you were born to a poor family you deserve to starve to death
>Ancap
>Nationalists
Choose one

>>129568767
What I meant by that is that landowner A would aggress upon landowner B, and that landowner B would thus retaliate against landowner A's aggression. Or if there were renters living on landowner X's property, and landowner X decided he wanted to start killing them all. The renters would leave the property of landowner X for landowner Y's property as landowner Y was not genocidal. Landowner X would soon go bankrupt, as no one would use landowner X's property again. Landowner Y would refrain from aggressing upon his new renters, as this is his source of income; profit.
>Tl;dr - The invisible hand of the free market

>>129569261
People would find hospitals because if they did not, they would not receive their services; or they would not need to, as they would be a non-profitable charity in the first place.

>>129569601
>find
Fund*

>>129569119
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_Papia_Poppaea

>Some senators want to marry her german former slave
>hurr durr romans are mixed with niggers

Every leaf is your level of stupidity or you're a special case?

>>129569632
>>129568931
>implying patrician or even plebs will breed with peregrini or slaves
:^)

>>129569408
Who said ancaps are nationalists?

Yes poor people shouldn't have kids shocker.

>>129569746
And if you weren't smart enough to get insurance same thing.

I'm not paying for your shortsightedness

>>129569746
yes goy money is the only reason you have kids. Throw your genes away the most greedy,sneaky and Jewish genes will thrive. Strength,pride all must be eliminated.

Elites plan for human population reduction
Check

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>>129545657

>>129569695

>implying majority means 101% of people

you're dumb beyond belief

>>129569962
he meant don't be a rigid ideologue you twit

>>129569408
>But if you don't work for them you get no money and you die like you said. Somebody's gotta work for Walmart since they shit on all on the other local small shops because the shops can't access the same goods for a good price and can't lower prices to practically zero where as Walmart could.

There is more than 1 company to work for, if conditions and pay are so bad then people simply wont work there. The market will decide what the wages are, if enough people don't want to work there they will have to improve conditions or go out of business.

If the economic climate is so bad not being able to work, or having to work at walmart for a wage that won't feed you or your family you die as you are just excess.

And again, if you didn't plan for your economic future through laziness or lack of foresight through insurance, or your poor family brought you into a world with too many people or you neglected to become a member of a community that would care enough about you to take care of you.... you disappear.

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>>129570034

>>129569942
nice argument, im sure if I said niggers should stop having kids you would be all for that you brainwashed stormfront cuck.

>>129547573
>roads
this is where I usually get BTFO

ftfy

>>129570189
Communities need roads, property value is based on infrastructure.

Businesses need road access for their customers to get to them. Businesses also need cross country roads for supply to get to them.

Hence these groups get together and pay for the roads.


Ancaps would of dissolved long ago if thier argument was even slightly valid as it's the most common to the point of being a meme.

>>129570069
>There is more than 1 company to work for, if conditions and pay are so bad then people simply wont work there. The market will decide what the wages are, if enough people don't want to work there they will have to improve conditions or go out of business.
But not everyone can get a job, there will not be a labor shortage especially with relaxed border controls for large companies to hire Chinese and Indian workers. You very could very well be stuck with Chinese tier wages working 12 hours a day in a shed.
So apple wouldn't go and hire more Chinese workers if it could? And I can guarantee you people would still buy apple products be it they would cheaper
>If the economic climate is so bad not being able to work, or having to work at walmart for a wage that won't feed you or your family you die as you are just excess.
Good bye middle and lower class whites. Good bye millions of Whites
>Ancap
>Nationalists
Choose one. Ancap is self centered and cares not for race,culture,religion it only cares for money. Ancap and nationalist is an oxymoron
>And again, if you didn't plan for your economic future through laziness or lack of foresight through insurance, or your poor family brought you into a world with too many people or you neglected to become a member of a community that would care enough about you to take care of you.... you disappear.
Poor people deserve to die because of where they born
Ancap's aren't even christian lmao. Say hello to Stalin and Christopher Hitches when your down there

>>129570146
>Race isn't important
Only money counts. Money is everything race/pride/religion/culture all of it needs to die it all gets in the way of more profit

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>>129563752
God how I love the graph in the upper right corner

>>129569601
>>129569628
Well appart from not adressing the restof the issues, you imply that people dont fund hospitals becaus they dont need them.
That is true, they doont need hospital services AT THE MOMENT,
why are people not getting treatment in america becuase tehy dont have health insurance, because they didn't think they would need it.
If everybody is Smart and has gread forsight the hospital thing could go well, but why would you assume that?
Why would you built a society arround the assumptions that everyone is Smart, and plannes his future well?

>>129570730
because people who don't plan ahead or got a bad education literally deserve to starve to death. Don't worry ancap is totally nationalistic and full of racial pride though and not self centered and focused on improving yourself at the cost of everyone else.


I wish they would just call themselves anarchists instead of hiding behind a thin layer of capitalism. It dosn't suddenly make anarchism work. All the arguments for Ancap work for "full" anarchism as well. Stupid ideology thank god the majority of ancap and libertarians are over 50

>>129570967
the silver lining with ancaps/libertarians is they probably wont breed

>>129570600
Fucking private enemy.

>>129545733
>massive criminal gangs
you mean those that cooperate with the governments?

>>129570967
>>129570511
>>129570584
No one is claiming Ancap is nationalistic, just stop you nazi retard.

And Christianity is about god-given free will, and the responsibility that comes with that. I don't expect a socialist to understand that though.

inb4 Nazi's aren't socialist leftist scum, im done with you aussie poster/

>>129545743
I'm an AnCap who actually names all of his memes.

>>129570967
What is wrong with libertarianism?
>>129571262
Well respond to me then
>>129569261
>>129568566
>>129570730

>>129546208
>burden of proof on statists
If I say the moon shouldn't exist I still have to explain why.

AnCap is a nice idealistic thing, but conpletely retarded in a real world context. How does AnCapistan survive the first few months after being founded? The first thing that would happen is that the commies and fascists declare war on each other and everyone else.

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>>129571262
>No one is claiming Ancap is nationalistic, just stop you nazi retard.
kek ancap is a cuck ideology then. Go join the communists in "things which won't work until everyone magically follows them"
>And Christianity is about god-given free will, and the responsibility that comes with that. I don't expect a socialist to understand that though.
It's also about giving to the poor and not being self centered and putting God and your neighbor over wealth A rich man cannot enter heaven and plenty of Christians matryas were killed Jesus didn't care if the Romans violated the NAP nor did the Christians who were feed to the lions

>And Christianity is about god-given free will, and the responsibility that comes with that. I don't expect a socialist to understand that though.
Means of production are not seized or collectively owned and rich people exist and muti billion dollar companies are still there. Not Socialism

Pic related it's you

>>129571414
https://mises.org/library/myth-natural-monopoly

>>129570730
>Well appart from not adressing the restof the issues
What other issues? I already said I don't mind the government funding the construction of hospitals. Like I said in my first post, I'm a minarchist.
>you imply that people dont fund hospitals becaus they dont need them.
No, I don't.
>That is true, they doont need hospital services AT THE MOMENT,
Which is why they'll be paying for in indirectly via health insurance, and/or charity.
>why are people not getting treatment in america
Because companies are using the government/laws to become monopolies/duopolies/etc
>becuase tehy dont have health insurance, because they didn't think they would need it.
No, mainly because they can't afford it, due to the above.
>If everybody is Smart and has gread forsight the hospital thing could go well, but why would you assume that?
For the same reason people look where the walking; so they don't injure themselves, or possibly die.
>Why would you built a society arround the assumptions that everyone is Smart, and plannes his future well?
I don't. Not everyone is smart. But if you don't where a helmet while riding a motorcycle, crash, and die. You honestly deserved it.

>>129544985
>implying the ocean wouldn't also be owned

>>129571677
What do you mean, I never said a free market will create monopolys and nothing else, I said If the people are unhappy withe the energy companys they cant make their own.
That point was all about the people being subjekt to the power of the company, and the inability to find alternatives.

>No, mainly because they can't afford it, due to the above.
Well thats also a factor, and im on you side, but I meant to point out that the assumption that everyone in an AnCap society is smart, is needed to further the belife it would just work fine.

I thought you were another ancap, thats why i linked those questions.

>>129572287
>>129572000
Forgot the final sentence: i agree with minarchism

>>129572287
>the inability to find alternatives.

That essay addresses this.

ctrl+f: The Natural-Monopoly Myth: Electric Utilities

>>129544985
Ancap is a meme ideology anon, no one on /pol/ actually believes in it. Its just so delicious to make fun of and larp as. For gods sake dont start believing your own bullshit.

>>129572502
How does that adress the point?
How will an AnCap society stop all Energy companies from setting prices as they please?
How will they defend against the Power of those companys?

>>129572740
a bit late it seems, molyneux is actually taken seriously nowadays

>>129573317
Well he does lots of good stuff, but when he goes off on the "DO YOU SUPPORT ME GETTING SHOT" thing he is kind of overdoing it,

Here is the bottom line. Andcap would either work brilliantl or not work at all. And if it were to fail, it would prove my point that all people are worthless pieces of shit and deserve to die anyway. If people dont know how to act right, they will have nobody to blame but THEMSELVES. Not 'muh government'

>>129564929
/thread

>>129569447
The whole thing hinges on the defenders being stronger and winning out over the aggressors.
The invisible hand of the free market only knows how to increase profits, not maintain a stable, prosperous, safe society.
We could apply your example of renters fleeing their genocidal landowner to the entire Ancap society, then. Why stay and be killed by Society X if Society Y, despite being under an authoritarian government, offers more protection and opportunities?

>>129574907
Government exists because people DON'T know how to act "right" on their own, though.
We are pieces of shit, because we're animals, but our intelligence has given us a way to deal with that so we can be better.

>>129544985
>free public school

Get what you pay for.

>>129576974
you paid lots of taxes for that mate. Dont buy into the meme that expensive = quality.

>>129566121
You're right, if you really think it is good to use violence against the innocent, then anarchism is not for you. There are plenty of violent, unethical ideologies out there, have a blast.

>>129580356
Doesn't this rhetoric just seem like communism but with greed swapped out for violence?

>>129580356
>against the innocent
Who decides they're innocent?

>>129545979
Depends of your defenition of NAP. I think most woukld agree that buying arming and aiming nukes would constitute agression by most peoples NAPÅ defenition.

>>129580735
I do. If you have not broken NAP you are innocent.You cannot commit violence unless self-defence.


1 free from guilt or sin

2 the quality or state of being innocent; freedom from sin or moral wrong.

3 harmlessness; innocuousness

4 Not guilty of a crime or offence.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innocent

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/innocence

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/innocent

>>129545304
You're not even rich. You'll die first, you cuck.

>>129547573

>forcefully retaliate against or remove larger entities that have aggressed upon them

Like it was did with Golden Horde?
Or like it's done with Cartels in Mexico?

>The corporation wouldn't be able to get that big in the first place under this paradigm.

Unless you go on the "steal and divide" to get rid of the players who ALREADY are big. Oh wait, by doing that you've just become bolshevik and violated NAP. Whoops.

> will have the freedom to move to an area

So why haven't you moved to Antarctica or some random isles because your government is degenerate?

>So I say that under such a paradigm they would have had infinitely more opportunities to not be poor

Yeah, for example, killing the "not-so-poor", eg low-middle and middle class.

>people will stop going to that DR

You don't know shit about marketing, human behaviour and propaganda. This shit actually working are cases of deviation, not norm.

Nestle is not bankrupt because of child labour. Coca-cola is not bankrupt because of arming some warlords. AEG, SIemens, IBM and others who were helping Nazis? GlaxoSmithKline over bribing doctors to push for the flawed drug? Comcast over being, well, COMCAST?

Spare me your wet fantasies. At most, people will bitch a little about it, but then will find another reason to bitch, like Kardashian's ass or spinners or whatever is "rad and hip".

>its up to them to find out if a DR sucks

So, essentially, DR has right to use citizens as guinea pigs.

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>>129544985

>>129546024
>Repercussions would be your deterrent
Well, I'm sure they'll work as well as do deterrents in penal codes

>>129581692
>I do.
So much for voluntary association.
>guilt, sin, crime
Elements of a legal system. That doesn't exist in anarchism. You have mockeries of them, because their jurisdictions can't extend beyond the properties of all the people who accept it.
Someone who commits a crime in one jurisdiction could've been considered innocent in another.

Why are you trying to argue for anarcho-capitalism from a moralistic viewpoint?
Do you consider yourself innocent if you're carrying extra bread and pass a starving person on the street? Are you "free from moral wrong" if you sit there and watch him starve to death?

>>129544985
>sorry the pic says tumblr, I saved the first thing on google images when I searched up ancap

Then you should have renamed it you mong

>>129583099

I suspect you do not want to understand, in which case, no-one can force you to. I gave several examples to try to connect you to the idea that use of violence unprovoked is wrong.

You choose to overlook my main point which is why you will never accept my conclusion that anarchy is morally right.

My meaning is if you are fundamentally against unprovoked violence, then anarchy is for you.
If you support the use of violence against those who have not provoked it, you cannot support anarchy, and you would be killed in anarchy society anyways.

You say legal systems doesn't exist in anarchy, which is not necessarily true. You can create contract and accept to be bound by implication of those contracts, but entering said contract must be voluntary.
Independent of this there will always be norms within a society dictating what is proper and not. The vast majority of people will follow these norms, and not act violently. To assume that law is the only thing preventing them from going completely crazy is to stretch the imagination a tad too far.

>Do you consider yourself innocent if you're carrying extra bread and pass a starving person on the street? Are you "free from moral wrong" if you sit there and watch him starve to death?

He has no claim to my property. I am morally justified in doing nothing to help him. However if I have "extra bread" as you say, then by definition I don't need the extra part, and would give it.

People starve to death every day on planet earth, are you morally obliged to spend all your money beyond mere subsistence to nourish them?

I would say you are not

>>129544985
>establish fascist state and invade you

What you gun do

>>129586655
Free ownership of firearms. Gl with ur police state moite.

>>129585859
I'm not overlooking your main point, I'm challenging it, and you're failing to defend it.
>the use of violence unprovoked is wrong.
WHO'S deciding what qualifies as provocation?
That person is acting as the state. Applying his say-so onto a population of people, and killing those who fail to follow it, is government. And it's involuntary.

>but entering said contract must be voluntary
It's not a legal system, then, like I said; it's a mockery of one.

>He has no claim to my property.
His claim to it is that he needs the bread vastly more than you.
You just think his claim is invalid, because in anarcho-capitalist philosophy, property is valued more highly than life.

>if you are fundamentally against unprovoked violence, then anarchy is for you.
I'm fundamentally against needless suffering and death, so anarchy isn't for me.

>are you morally obliged to spend all your money beyond mere subsistence to nourish them? I would say you are not
And I would say you are morally obliged to dedicate all of your efforts, not just money, towards ending all forms of suffering, not just starvation.
We have different moral principles.

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>>129587141
>he thinks a population of civilians "freely owning" guns can fend off a conscripted population trained into soldiers, with all the materiel and resources of a centralized government and regulated war economy at their disposal.

>>129553411
this

>>129544985
Do a search for the channel Mr Dapperton, he has a ton of videos om Anarcho Capitalism.

>>129569962
you're a retard. you can still have an opinion without resorting to DnD alignments you nerd

>>129587865

ok let me state it one more time, just for you.
Violence is ok in self-defence. In all other cases violence is not good. Any verbal abuse is not equal to violence, the one who starts being violent is at fault.

Voluntary transaction are don all the time, no force required, when did you last buy groceries?

">He has no claim to my property.
His claim to it is that he needs the bread vastly more than you.
You just think his claim is invalid, because in anarcho-capitalist philosophy, property is valued more highly than life."

Now you're being silly. Anyone with a greater need to something has the morally justified claim. Ye great idea. That's communism man, not good.

">if you are fundamentally against unprovoked violence, then anarchy is for you.
I'm fundamentally against needless suffering and death, so anarchy isn't for me."

Sound still more communist to me. When some people freely choose to be unproductive, it should not be forced upon the greater society to take care of these people, that is wrong. Forced redistribution of wealth is quite popular in socialist/communist circles though.

">are you morally obliged to spend all your money beyond mere subsistence to nourish them? I would say you are not
And I would say you are morally obliged to dedicate all of your efforts, not just money, towards ending all forms of suffering, not just starvation. We have different moral principles."

Ok, then you are free to spend all your money beyond mere subsistence towards ending world hunger, and I applaud you for doing that. You are evidently acting out your moral principles, which is something I can applaud.
I think we fully understand each other now, the communist is out of the bag, and I applaud you for being honest about your position. I think we can't come to agreement. Cheers.

>>129588104
>He thinks the native population is all traitors and will freely join said army instead of defending their superior way of life, family and culture.

>>129588104
>what has the IRA been doing for literally decades

>>129589360
>he thinks the pre-fascist society was the superior way of life, had any family values, or a culture that wasn't degenerate.
>he thinks anyone would need to freely join the army when they're being forcibly conscripted.

>>129589445
Failing to kick the English out of Northern Ireland?

>>129589157
You don't need to "state it one more time" you need to actually substantiate it with an argument. Prove why Ancap's opinions about the good and bad of violence are more sound.

>when did you last buy groceries?
That's not an example of voluntary transaction. So many elements involved, from the currency to the produce, to the transaction itself are forced to be a certain way.
That's without getting into whether me buying groceries so I can avoid starving would actually be voluntary to begin with.

>Anyone with a greater need to something has the morally justified claim.
I don't say it was morally justified, I simply told you what his claim is, and what your opinion of it is. Because you tried to sneak around that by just outright saying he has no claim.
There'd be a lot more factors to look at before I'd say whether the claim's valid, i.e. why is he starving in the first place, is he trying to feed himself or is he choosing to rely on charity, stuff like that.

>Sound still more communist to me.
That's because you're assuming too much, and because you don't understand what communism is very well. Its doctrine is far closer to ancap philosophy than mine. They're both anarchist, for starters.

>it should not be forced upon the greater society to take care of these people
I don't say it should be, unless "forcing them to be productive" counts as taking care of them. I'd say it does, but that's probably not what you meant.

>Forced redistribution of wealth is quite popular in socialist/communist circles
For different reasons, sure.

>then you are free to spend all your money
Not just money, remember? All my efforts. That includes combating ideologies that would exacerbate the problem, either by action or inaction.

>I applaud you for being honest about your position.
I'd have appreciated if you were honest about yours, rather than hiding the Darwinian "if you can't survive in the free market you don't deserve to live" nature of Ancap behind all that moralism.