Is the material world inherently evil?

>>129527961
How can material be evil?

>>129527961
is incomprehensible chaos evil?

>argue about evil
>argue about god
>never define what you're arguing about
>therefore unable to prove or disprove any real points
>not like you would anyway
infinite pointless shitty threads

It isn't that the material realm is evil, it is just that this is hell. Some of us are here as a result of original sin, and the perpetuation thereof (making more children in an obvious hell), and some of us are here as lifelines for the elect.

>>129528082
>>129528211
>>129528269

Everything brought by a materialistic conception of reality creates suffering, ignorance and makes spiritual freedom impossible.

>>129528269
Even better yet. He didn't even distinguish material from non-material.

For example. Are thoughts material or immaterial? They are essentially little electrical pulses.

>>129527961
Yes, because the material world was created by Satan. That's why the strong rule the weak, that's why evolution is an arms race, and that's why there is so much needless suffering in the world. This is an attempt by a lesser creator to mimic the greater spiritual world.

>>129528831
Very well said, brother. God bless.

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>>129528671

Our current state of reality *IS* hell.

>>129528894
Yes, this is, based on the best of my ability to understand it, literally hell in the worst, or a "soft/pre-hell" in the best.

>>129528777
So? Get over it. This is the way it is.

>>129528894
This, of course, is the ultimate redpill that no one dares touch. The truth is only for the strongest of men, and the truth is indeed stranger than fiction.

Gob bless, brother.

>>129529656
Why even engage in political discussion with that attitude? Go be defeated somewhere else.

>>129527961
>Asking this question before defining to us what your meaning of "Evil" is.

Cancer.

>>129529656

Well, the whole purpose of far-right politics is the rebirth of tradition.
Masculine worldview is the real key to undermine the (((modern))) society.

>>129527961
Abrahamic religions have really fucked people's heads up...

>>129527961
Oh you silly faggot.
The material world is inherently nothing.
It's neither evil nor good.
You don't call a rock evil.

Good and evil exists on the level of living beings.

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jews are evil.

>>129530095
>>129530037
What stunning mediocre "insights" and worldviews. You haven't even scratched the surface, and like all surface dwellers, bandy about your sophomoric tripe with arrogance.

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All sentient life within the animal realm is precious and we should treat all as we want to be treated, as we are all connected as one celestial sentient body.

This eternal truth will endure forever, and will dictate the direction of sentient evolution towards Christian/Buddhist ethics.

Any aversion to this divine perception is a retardation of consciousness; an impairment.

>>129530273
Okay, motherfucker, I'm listening.

If somebody stabs you with a knife, do you call the knife evil or the person who chose to stab you?

Gnosticism and similar conceptions are gay. Nature is the reflection of God, or is God. To say the world is evil is to be anti-everything. That's evil itself.

>>129530424
What you say is true, at a low level of understanding, and I mean no offense when I say that.

The question being posed is more profound than object/subject relationships. The OP is asking if the fundamental nature of this world we live in, ourselves included, is one of evil; to which the intellectual should conclude undoubtedly: yes, it is so.

Of course, power is neutral without the moral/ethical sway of its wielder, but consciousnesses begets ethics and behaviors that are, whether you like it or not, judged and recorded by that which is higher than man.

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>>129530095

>The material world is inherently nothing.

Everything which emphasis the material over the spiritual brings disorder which is exactly the strength of jewish spirit. Our modernity is exactly the product of that thought.

>>129530637
To oppose evil is not to be evil.

How can you not see that the world honors nothing but tooth and nail? Every joy is the seed of despair on this earth.

>>129530095
>>129530273
You completely ignored that guy's entire point and just insulted his character. You talked in an extremely vague and boastful way, as if you have some hidden knowledge nobody knows about.

Holy fuck, you're a faggot dude.

>>129530923
I've addressed his point.

>>129531030
>What stunning mediocre "insights" and worldviews. You haven't even scratched the surface, and like all surface dwellers, bandy about your sophomoric tripe with arrogance.

You LITERALLY just said he's wrong and arrogant, and called him a surface dweller.

No where did you define what evil is, or how the material world is inherently evil.

You are cancer.

Where in those two sentences did you address anything.

>>129527961
No, it's a cold and indifferent plane, where dead babies and happy, old couples can share a space.

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>>129527961

the material world can be used for good or evil.

The spiritual mind can only be used for good; a man who commits evil is not spiritual. He is void of a soul.

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The whole universe is a trap

>>129531222
In a separate reply to him.
My initial antagonism was all that his initial comment deserved, but he proved to be man and thus we continued our dialogue.

>>129528831
Go away heretic.

>>129530694
> The OP is asking if the fundamental nature of this world we live in, ourselves included, is one of evil; to which the intellectual should conclude undoubtedly: yes, it is so.
Why?

>Of course, power is neutral without the moral/ethical sway of its wielder, but consciousnesses begets ethics and behaviors that are, whether you like it or not, judged and recorded by that which is higher than man.

Consciousness doesn't beget ethics. Well, it does, but not in the way you think.

Psychology is my strong point. Ethics are moral principles. They are an evolution of social norms. Social norms are present in most species of animals. They're not meant for deciding good and evil, they're meant to insure the group/pack/clan/etc. does what it's supposed to.

By all means it isn't improbable that rape or brutal murder to be considered a social norm or even a moral principle in some circumstances.

The arabs do it to their women. From their perspective, stoning a woman to death for adultery is entirely an act of good.

Ethics are useless if you want to find a greater good.

>>129531222
Wait, I want to see where this goes.

>>129531442
In your seperate reply, you still fail to mention or define what "evil" is. You just claim an intellectual would obviously come to the conclusion that the nature of the world is evil, no evidence provided, not even an argument provided.

I agree, power is neutral without the wielder, but then you go on to just say that consciousness is X, without an argument or reasoning behind it. More like, speaking in a self righteous way and using words to give yourself the appearance of an intellectual.

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>>129531569
Good points, and I certainly agree with what you're saying. I think are disagreement is one of the ultimate nature of reality, more-so than what goes on therein.

I wish I could reply more, and it is times like these that I wish this was not an anonymous and rapidly archived board, but I have to go to work.

Thanks for the reply. Y'all take care.

>>129532126
I'm sorry you think I was being pedantic, that wasn't my aim.

>>129532340
You know, a wise man can pretend to be a simple man, but not the other way around.
If you were a wise man, you'd know that nobody really gives a fuck about how complicated you make your sentences. On the contrary, people who understand an idea are easily capable of explaining it in the simplest fucking way.

There's you tip.

>>129531569
>The arabs do it to their women. From their perspective, stoning a woman to death for adultery is entirely an act of good.
Whats good for society isnt always good for an individual in it

>>129533891
Then what is good?

If there's anything resembling a greater good in this world, it's simply to follow your nature wherever it takes you.

Eat, fuck, gather and hunt(work, basically), protect your family, ensure the survival of your clan. And most of all: be free, act fairly, constantly improve yourself.

That is good.

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>>129534858
I'm thinking it's good to preserve life and to create useful things for it out of the decaying, dying, ever-chancing elements of the universe.

Looking at the bigger picture from as early as we can look to as far as we can predict based on scientific data.

Universe started in a very ordered, low entropy state - from which it only goes downfall as far as our perception of time as humans go, we move with the arrow of time in our minds.

For less words and more information, the attached picture explains it better, we're in the middle ground where the elements with which the universe stated in their complexity allowed life, as life we are very ordered beings inside a multitude of chaotic, unordered things - it's good for us because we follow the arrow of time to preserve entropy and re-order stuff into meaningful things for us as we surely know there will come a time in the set-up of the universe where we won't be able to exist, nor any form of order will be able to exist.

Literally self-areness, consciousness is the snowflake of the universe at this point and all that matters, we're free to define good and evil as we want but that's how i see it.

Sure for our decades long life good and evil could mean much more than what it could on cosmic scale.

>>129527961

Define evil.

>>129537183
Yeah, that's sound.
Though like to think that biological life will break the universe somehow. The fact that life keeps multiplying, expanding and evolving is something I find amazing. Most actions in the universe begin, lose energy and then end in nothing.
But life is different, it's like a self perpetuating action. Maybe the complexity of it all is just clouding it, but I see no end in sight.

I reckon that even we have a place somewhere in the engine in some form, most probably the reproductive organ.

We grow, we civilize ourselves, then we get to space, then to other barren worlds, where we terraform and spread life. And after we're gone/ascended/destroyed, that life will develop an intelligent species that will do the same as us.

We may very well be able to prevent the end of the universe by learning to manipulate it.

Or maybe one day we'll be so advanced that life will absorb everything in the universe and become God.

I have hope either way.

I wouldn't say evil, just not a great song.

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>>129537183
Our only purpose in life is to sustain it at all costs.

>>129539398
Yes it's true but in all this process we create more entropy.

We just create useful entropy for us but in the grander scheme we just accelerate universe death with our actions.

It's literally all about us, we're a special spark inside this universe that consume it for our own interests and this is how we should treat it.

>>129540099
Yeah, that!
Good.
Good job.

I wanna buy you a drink.
You don't live in Monteral by any chance, do you?

>>129527961

Evil is inherent to existence, but its a choice. One whose results we all have to live with if we choose to go down that path.

>>129540163
We'll yeah, but I wouldn't judge by what we see now.

Every human starts out as a parasite in their mother's womb. And later they care for their parents and tend to them at old age.

If we get lucky and survive long enough, we'll eventually figure out how to stop all of that and at least prolong the universe for as long as we need, if not rejuvenate it.

>>129540594

GTFO and go back to tumblr faggot.

>>129540648
Bitch, was I talking to you?

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He took the Diogenes pill

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>>129540260
No, I live in Toronto. My city is usually directly or indirectly responsible for everything bad that happens in Canada. On an unrelated note, I've written a treatise on what you're describing already and labelled it the natural purpose, onto which a constructed purpose may be added (the building of relations, cultures, and societies, culminating with civilization). The treatise is undergoing editing, but I aim to publish it in a couple years. There's still a lot I'm not satisfied with, so hopefully I can go back and make my arguments airtight.

This thread is one of the few on /pol/ I'm actually glad I didn't skim through.

>>129527961
The world itself is not anything.

People are. And desire for things in the natural world lead to greed, envy, lust, pride, etc.

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>>129537183

Some things never mix. Materialism is pushed by the homosexuals in charge, because they want normal people to become soulless degenerates like them. As the tranny thing becomes more obvious, people will see how different these creatures, and their interbred psychopath families are from Humans with souls. Things will snap back eventually. Nature always wins.

>>129540989
Damn, I'm going to Montreal next month and I want to drink with /pol/acks at least once.

If you finish your work, post it here a few times so I catch it. I'm curious.

Though that constructed purpose, if your examples are accurate, then the constructed purposes could be considered as tools meant to better fulfill the natural ones. Or rather, extensions of it. A country is the extension of a pack no matter how you look at it. Culture is the extension of social norms, as are ethics. Etc.

Psychology taught me that everything we do and strive for inevitably gets traced back to a natural purpose. Everything.

>>129540575

> Evil is inherent to existence

Precisely because we're immanent to the material world, therefore influenced by it.

> but its a choice

It's one of our cages... There's a huge difference between the ending of confusion through clarity and the choice drived by confusion. One free us, other no.

>>129541158

>The world itself is not anything.

World is precisely the realm when these things happen. The whole "fall" of christianity theology explores it. We're "sinners" by default because we're vulnerable to "worldly things"...

>>129540877

Diogenes was a cosmopolitan. I'm not one.

>>129541695
Yes, the constructed purpose is an extension of the natural purpose, founded on the principle that the existence of the other (a friend or relationship) helps extend our own life, whether through procreation, the sharing of ideals, or medical / social aid.

Have fun in Montreal! Also take time to explore the countryside if you get the chance. The province has beautiful natural scenery.

>>129542192
>Yes, the constructed purpose is an extension of the natural purpose, founded on the principle that the existence of the other (a friend or relationship) helps extend our own life, whether through procreation, the sharing of ideals, or medical / social aid.
Total halal!

>The province has beautiful natural scenery.
Yeah I've been there once before... 10 years ago? Fuck, I'm old...
I have an aunt there and she wants me to see some whales or something.

If I'm ever in Toronto, I'll call /pol/acks for a beer so come if you ever see that.

>>129542192
You're not Jordan Peterson by any chance, are you?

I thought this was going to be a ledemiurge.jpg thread

>>129529656
>So?
So? Get over it. This is the way it should be

>>129544455
Tough!
You get astrophysics and behavioral psychology instead!

>>129544719
Either way, the best threads on this board, I always learn something

>>129541986
Nope. Remove us from the picture and those things are not inherently anything other than things that happen to exist

>>129542681
Sounds good. Will do, my Romanian friend.

>>129528777
these 'concepts of reality' you are referring to mean nothing without a consciousness to experience it.

You're thinking too shallow.

>>129527961
Yes. We are divided into heave and earth. Heaven being perfect.